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(Newser)   Memo to Secret Service agents: no more drinking alcohol within 10 hours of working; no bringing foreigners to your hotel rooms; and, no going to "non-reputable" establishments   (newser.com ) divider line
    More: Obvious, espionages, memoranda, hotels, United States House Committee on Homeland Security, institutions  
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2387 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Apr 2012 at 2:46 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-28 05:26:30 PM  

Ennuipoet: I was actually trying to say something nice about the Marines...


Haha, I appreciate it.

It was more of a convenient point to moan about how somebody always screws up a good deal.

Marines overseas used to have a real good deal... but we drank too much beer, and had too many epic adventures.

And we do appreciate the Air Force ladies, I have only ever spent 19 and a half hours on an Air Force base, but it was probably one of the more enjoyable times I have had on government property!
 
2012-04-28 05:45:41 PM  

Mock26: MindStalker: ZeroCorpse: So soldiers can screw hookers and abuse alcohol when they're overseas, and nobody says a word, but if a Secret Service agent want to have a drink and a night with a paid partner, everyone goes ballistic?

This is tragically unfair.

/But then, I don't care. I never pay for it, and I'm not an SS agent.

No, back in 2006 soldiers were banned from obtaining prostitutes or anything that is illegal back in the states. I'm not sure if they can in Nevada or not.

What about alcohol for someone who is not yet 21 but stationed in a country where they are of legal age?


Local laws generally win, except in cases where the substance itself is illegal in America (ie getting busted for marijuana even though you were in the Netherlands). Results vary depending on your security clearance.

Their big problem isn't morality, it's security. These guys get drunk and shoot their mouths off or allow compromising material to be gathered on them...not a good thing. The military tends to frown upon such things. Opsec opsec opsec!

/used to live in formerly occupied Berlin
//huge issue
 
2012-04-28 06:16:53 PM  
So the POTUS will be unable to visit anywhere in Africa?
 
2012-04-28 06:23:37 PM  
Guess now they've gotta ditch the Kenyan dude who's been hanging out with them for the past three years.
 
2012-04-28 06:37:53 PM  

ZeroCorpse: So soldiers can screw hookers and abuse alcohol when they're overseas, and nobody says a word, but if a Secret Service agent want to have a drink and a night with a paid partner, everyone goes ballistic?

This is tragically unfair.

/But then, I don't care. I never pay for it, and I'm not an SS agent.


Except thats not true either. When I was a sailor every time we pulled into port we were reminded soliciting prostitutes is still illegal for us even if it isn't in the given country. we were warned about any local scams and told specifically when we were in a country with no extradition arrangements. We also had any local customs that we were expected to know about and/or honor.

Now later that night when you found the best whorehouse in that town you would likely see the PO who gave you the "no whores" lecture already there but thats beside the point.
 
2012-04-28 07:30:17 PM  
holy shiat they must be pissed at the dude who wouldn't just pay the farking hooker.
for some early shifts that has gotta translate into a prohibition of having a glass of beer or wine with with dinner.
 
2012-04-28 07:32:07 PM  

Mock26: MindStalker: ZeroCorpse: So soldiers can screw hookers and abuse alcohol when they're overseas, and nobody says a word, but if a Secret Service agent want to have a drink and a night with a paid partner, everyone goes ballistic?

This is tragically unfair.

/But then, I don't care. I never pay for it, and I'm not an SS agent.

No, back in 2006 soldiers were banned from obtaining prostitutes or anything that is illegal back in the states. I'm not sure if they can in Nevada or not.

What about alcohol for someone who is not yet 21 but stationed in a country where they are of legal age?


Current state of affairs: Active duty military are subject to all US Federal laws, whether on duty or not; regardless of geographic location. Some additional provisions have been made to extend what is considered professional and moral conduct under the UCMJ (to include prostitution). So from a military court's perspective drinking
under the age of 21 is punishable by Article 15 (though in practice, unless you screw up somehow in conjunction with drinking) it typically isn't enforced.

//ymmv - some units are pretty strict on this
///not legal advice, just someone that's sat in too many commander's calls while overseas where the subject was addressed
 
2012-04-28 07:44:26 PM  

ZeroCorpse: So soldiers can screw hookers and abuse alcohol when they're overseas, and nobody says a word, but if a Secret Service agent want to have a drink and a night with a paid partner, everyone goes ballistic?

This is tragically unfair.

/But then, I don't care. I never pay for it, and I'm not an SS agent.


Except that soldiers haven't been able to do hookers without risk of court martial for some years under the UCMJ definition of sexual misconduct. Though prostitution wasn't originally explicitly defined (though extramarital affairs were) leaving wiggle room for single folks; president Bush by executive order included "pandering" under article 134. This has been replaced by the new language of article 120, but the fact remains ... This has been a no-go for the troops for some time.

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/punitivearticles/a/134138.htm

//csb: While working in Germany as a DoD contractor there were more than a few instances of Airmen getting caught leaving the brothel just outside the back gate of Vogelweh. It usually didn't turn out too well for them.
///ok, that wasn't a cool story ... Kinda messed up that OSI spent so much time looking to nab people for that actually
 
2012-04-28 07:50:53 PM  
Aren't Secret Service Agents essentially cops? Cops who are now forbidden to go to where the bad things happen. I could support this.
 
2012-04-28 07:57:55 PM  
Least we can ask of them during the 20 years they have to serve before retiring at 45 with a six figure retirement, COLA's, a top notch health plan, and a cush private position likely.
 
2012-04-28 08:37:22 PM  

krackpipe: Least we can ask of them during the 20 years they have to serve before retiring at 45 with a six figure retirement, COLA's, a top notch health plan, and a cush private position likely.


Um, all Federal employees are now under FERS. Even a GS-15, which is a junior exec position and probably none of these guys, isn't going to be getting anywhere near a 6 figure retirement even with the full 35 year service cap. It's also worth noting that most retire at a GS12-13.

http://www.opm.gov/oca/12tables/indexgs.asp

http://www.opm.gov/retire/pre/fers/index.asp

http://www.fedcalc.com/servlet/com.quantos.fcgui.fers

http://seekingalpha.com/instablog/428250-michael-clark/123287-examini n g-the-great-government-pension-myth
 
2012-04-28 08:39:20 PM  
...on my previous post I should have noted that those rates are for civilian employees (eg the SS), rates are better for active duty - but not 6 figures better.
 
2012-04-28 08:47:39 PM  
Still OK for Congressmen to fark people for money, though. Gotcha.
 
2012-04-28 09:19:18 PM  

iivel: Kinda messed up that OSI spent so much time looking to nab people for that actually


Fun Fact: OSI are assholes.
 
2012-04-28 09:52:06 PM  

scottydoesntknow: Pocket Ninja: I wonder if the guy who started all of this because he was too cheap to pay his whore has any friends left.

Seriously (hence my post). I bet the Secret Service was an awesome job. Sure you might die for the president, but A) you (well, history) will get to say you died for the president, and B) you get to party a hell of a lot before that hypothetical situation (which may never even occur).

Now they are cracking down, so the risk/fun ratio is getting screwed. I wouldn't wanna be one right now.


Now I know nothing about law enforcement or foreign ops but it struck me as ... odd ... That when the SSAs are doing a prep for a POTUS visit, there is drinking and whoring before. After, whatever. But before the show doesn't seem too professional or smart.
 
2012-04-28 10:00:24 PM  

iivel: ...on my previous post I should have noted that those rates are for civilian employees (eg the SS), rates are better for active duty - but not 6 figures better.


I have nothing against SS, they do an important job, but I can't stand a person who comes in here and tries confuse the issue by entirely leaving out LEAP pay and so on. You know damned well what you're trying to fool the readers here with. Again, I have nothing against SS or LE, but don't try to minimize the pay and retirement. And you know that former military years of service count for double dippers. You know all of that if you gave me those links for basic cubicle GS positions, which you KNOW don't apply. All Federal LE's working right now are going to retire with at least $100K, COLA's and health, unless they were demoted. Knock it off.
 
2012-04-28 10:56:00 PM  

krackpipe: iivel: ...on my previous post I should have noted that those rates are for civilian employees (eg the SS), rates are better for active duty - but not 6 figures better.

I have nothing against SS, they do an important job, but I can't stand a person who comes in here and tries confuse the issue by entirely leaving out LEAP pay and so on. You know damned well what you're trying to fool the readers here with. Again, I have nothing against SS or LE, but don't try to minimize the pay and retirement. And you know that former military years of service count for double dippers. You know all of that if you gave me those links for basic cubicle GS positions, which you KNOW don't apply. All Federal LE's working right now are going to retire with at least $100K, COLA's and health, unless they were demoted. Knock it off.


LEAP is 25% above locality pay, not base. A retired SS GS12 with 20 years in FERS will receive ~$60k per year before deductions (in today's dollars). They will have also been paying into SSI which is part of that total (yeah, no additional SSI), and their individual contribution the whole time as well.

Regarding double dipping. The previous years only count if you left military service prior to retirement. You can 'buy back' that time, but if you retired you can't.

Even if you add in the cost of health insurance you're not getting close to six figures. Now total value of the annuity could certainly be compared to having a couple million in the bank, and one could argue the validity of such a pension system; but the fact is that across most of the country (a 14.9% locality adjustment) LEAP is effectively a 4% total raise.

I'm certainly willing to provide more references specific to the points you raise, but my only intent for what I did post was to clear up the misconception many have in thinking the old civilian retirement packages from the 80s were still in place.
 
2012-04-28 11:05:27 PM  
The world has changed. Information is instant and it is impossible to cover anything up. Expect more stuff you normally would never have seen.
It will take a while for the world to finish adjusting to not being able to keep secrets the same ways as before. By that time none of us will have as much freedom as we do today. Enjoy anonymity and freedom of action without monitoring while you can, it is slipping away.
 
2012-04-28 11:41:20 PM  

Pocket Ninja: I wonder if the guy who started all of this because he was too cheap to pay his whore has any friends left.


I'm guessing not. Never screw up in a job where all your pals have guns and nearly free rein to use them as they see fit.

(because who's he going to call for help, the same Marines who got caught by his behavior?)
 
2012-04-29 12:03:20 AM  

iivel: krackpipe: iivel: ...on my previous post I should have noted that those rates are for civilian employees (eg the SS), rates are better for active duty - but not 6 figures better.

I have nothing against SS, they do an important job, but I can't stand a person who comes in here and tries confuse the issue by entirely leaving out LEAP pay and so on. You know damned well what you're trying to fool the readers here with. Again, I have nothing against SS or LE, but don't try to minimize the pay and retirement. And you know that former military years of service count for double dippers. You know all of that if you gave me those links for basic cubicle GS positions, which you KNOW don't apply. All Federal LE's working right now are going to retire with at least $100K, COLA's and health, unless they were demoted. Knock it off.

LEAP is 25% above locality pay, not base. A retired SS GS12 with 20 years in FERS will receive ~$60k per year before deductions (in today's dollars). They will have also been paying into SSI which is part of that total (yeah, no additional SSI), and their individual contribution the whole time as well.

Regarding double dipping. The previous years only count if you left military service prior to retirement. You can 'buy back' that time, but if you retired you can't.

Even if you add in the cost of health insurance you're not getting close to six figures. Now total value of the annuity could certainly be compared to having a couple million in the bank, and one could argue the validity of such a pension system; but the fact is that across most of the country (a 14.9% locality adjustment) LEAP is effectively a 4% total raise.

I'm certainly willing to provide more references specific to the points you raise, but my only intent for what I did post was to clear up the misconception many have in thinking the old civilian retirement packages from the 80s were still in place.


Give me a break. I worked with a GS-12 in Oakland 5 years ago who made $95K without LEAP and there is an entire office of them there. I have retired ATF in my family. I don't know offhand where links are to "prove" things which are not put on the Internet in the first place, if i find them later, I'll look for you in some other thread, but you and I both know you have some sort of agenda for downplaying Fed LE salaries and benefits, since you know the entire TIG/TIS scenario. So I don't what you hope to gain. I stand by what I said: none of the Secret Service guys in that detail will retire with less that $100K and cushy private job waiting, and the least they can do is keep their dicks in their pants for the 20 years they represent our country and protect our Prez at immense taxpayer expense.
 
2012-04-29 12:13:45 AM  

Ennuipoet: MaudlinMutantMollusk: You almost the whole Air Force?

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: No, you misunderstood. He WAS the Air Force.

It was hard, but it was before the Wars, so I wasn't as busy as they are now.

Shostie: I wish I was a branch of the military.

Be the Marines, they get laid a lot more.


Lots of dorm whores in the Air Force.
 
2012-04-29 12:15:43 AM  

you are a puppet: Shostie: I wish I was a branch of the military.

I am an Army of One.


Sucker.

I always thought that lamer than "Aim High."
 
2012-04-29 12:25:41 AM  

krackpipe: iivel: krackpipe: iivel: ...on my previous post I should have noted that those rates are for civilian employees (eg the SS), rates are better for active duty - but not 6 figures better.

I have nothing against SS, they do an important job, but I can't stand a person who comes in here and tries confuse the issue by entirely leaving out LEAP pay and so on. You know damned well what you're trying to fool the readers here with. Again, I have nothing against SS or LE, but don't try to minimize the pay and retirement. And you know that former military years of service count for double dippers. You know all of that if you gave me those links for basic cubicle GS positions, which you KNOW don't apply. All Federal LE's working right now are going to retire with at least $100K, COLA's and health, unless they were demoted. Knock it off.

LEAP is 25% above locality pay, not base. A retired SS GS12 with 20 years in FERS will receive ~$60k per year before deductions (in today's dollars). They will have also been paying into SSI which is part of that total (yeah, no additional SSI), and their individual contribution the whole time as well.

Regarding double dipping. The previous years only count if you left military service prior to retirement. You can 'buy back' that time, but if you retired you can't.

Even if you add in the cost of health insurance you're not getting close to six figures. Now total value of the annuity could certainly be compared to having a couple million in the bank, and one could argue the validity of such a pension system; but the fact is that across most of the country (a 14.9% locality adjustment) LEAP is effectively a 4% total raise.

I'm certainly willing to provide more references specific to the points you raise, but my only intent for what I did post was to clear up the misconception many have in thinking the old civilian retirement packages from the 80s were still in place.

Give me a break. I worked with a GS-12 in Oakland 5 years ago who made $95 ...


Since at this point I'm not sure if I'm being trolled or not, and I don't know why you're so adamant about the salaries of civil servants being different than what is officially published; all I have left to emphasize is that I have no agenda, that a GS-12 in Oakland (at step 10) will make exactly what the OPM site says they do (89250 plus a possible bonus) and that no federal employee hired after 1983 retires at 100% of their salary. The easy thing about this argument is that federal wages (for all agencies) are published and I'm certain that you're more than capable of working out the actual benefit yourself. Wages for all federal employees require congressional approval, and with few exceptions, are public record. As to why I'm aware of the scenario - it's soley because I've been through it and I'm often amazed at the misconceptions people have regarding the programs.

Out of curiosity, and this will let me know if I'm being trolled (maybe), but do you believe that members of Congress/POTUS recieve their salary for life, or are you aware that the average pension payment to a congressperson that's fully vested (I know 5 years is easy to sleep through) is only ~36k [since like all federal employees they are now under FERS]?
 
2012-04-29 06:49:17 AM  

iivel: krackpipe: iivel: krackpipe: iivel: ..Since at this point I'm not sure if I'm being trolled or not, and I don't know why you're so adamant about the salaries of civil servants being different than what is officially published; all I have left to emphasize is that I have no agenda, that a GS-12 in Oakland (at step 10) will make exactly what the OPM site says they do (89250 plus a possible bonus) and that no federal employee hired after 1983 retires at 100% of their salary. The easy thing about this argument is that federal wages (for all agencies) are published and I'm certain that you're more than capable of working out the actual benefit yourself. Wages for all federal employees require congressional approval, and with few exceptions, are public record. As to why I'm aware of the scenario - it's soley because I've been through it and I'm often amazed at the misconceptions people have regarding the programs.

Out of curiosity, and this will let me know if I'm being trolled (maybe), but do you believe that members of Congress/POTUS recieve their salary for life, or are you aware that the average pension payment to a congressperson that's fully vested (I know 5 years is easy to sleep through) is only ~36k [since like all federal employees they are now under FERS]?


I'm more concerned that I'm being trolled by a current or former federal LE. I have nothing against either civil servants or public safety civil servants. I simply don't conflate their pay and benefits. Even though they are both under FERS, they are not treated in the same manner. Even though they are both on OPM charts, the charts do not reveal all the information on LEO compensation, as you know. Conflating regular civil service with public safety civil service creates a false impression in the public about what regular civil servants are paid. The SS guys are getting LEAP or AUO, hazardous duty, incentives and possible bonuses (depending on their certifications and prior assignments). Further you know the LE contribution is higher into the retirement fund (unlike other civil servants), that they have a no-wait on their COLA's (unlike other civil servants), and there's no annuity penalty for these guys retiring before 55 (unlike other civil servants), they have tax breaks under NARFE (unlike other civil servants), eligibility for a special retirement supplement (unlike other civil servants).. the list goes on ...as you KNOW. I'm not saying they don't deserve it, but please stop. The SS guys on this Columbia trip should be thankful and behaving appropriately.
 
2012-04-29 12:01:05 PM  

krackpipe: iivel: krackpipe: iivel: krackpipe: iivel: ..Since at this point I'm not sure if I'm being trolled or not, and I don't know why you're so adamant about the salaries of civil servants being different than what is officially published; all I have left to emphasize is that I have no agenda, that a GS-12 in Oakland (at step 10) will make exactly what the OPM site says they do (89250 plus a possible bonus) and that no federal employee hired after 1983 retires at 100% of their salary. The easy thing about this argument is that federal wages (for all agencies) are published and I'm certain that you're more than capable of working out the actual benefit yourself. Wages for all federal employees require congressional approval, and with few exceptions, are public record. As to why I'm aware of the scenario - it's soley because I've been through it and I'm often amazed at the misconceptions people have regarding the programs.

Out of curiosity, and this will let me know if I'm being trolled (maybe), but do you believe that members of Congress/POTUS recieve their salary for life, or are you aware that the average pension payment to a congressperson that's fully vested (I know 5 years is easy to sleep through) is only ~36k [since like all federal employees they are now under FERS]?

I'm more concerned that I'm being trolled by a current or former federal LE. I have nothing against either civil servants or public safety civil servants. I simply don't conflate their pay and benefits. Even though they are both under FERS, they are not treated in the same manner. Even though they are both on OPM charts, the charts do not reveal all the information on LEO compensation, as you know. Conflating regular civil service with public safety civil service creates a false impression in the public about what regular civil servants are paid. The SS guys are getting LEAP or AUO, hazardous duty, incentives and possible bonuses (depending on their certifications and prior assignments). Further yo ...


That health insurance is not chump change.
 
2012-04-29 12:02:31 PM  

rev. dave: The world has changed. Information is instant and it is impossible to cover anything up. Expect more stuff you normally would never have seen.
It will take a while for the world to finish adjusting to not being able to keep secrets the same ways as before. By that time none of us will have as much freedom as we do today. Enjoy anonymity and freedom of action without monitoring while you can, it is slipping away.


Au Contare'(?), it is just more expensive to cover chit up.
 
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