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(Courier Mail)   For just $50,000 you can purchase a $195 million ship from the Defense Department. But there's just one catch: As soon as you buy it you have to dismantle it on US soil   (couriermail.com.au) divider line 115
    More: Interesting, Tomorrow Never Dies, Defense Department, DARPA, F-35, media moguls, stealth ship  
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20660 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Apr 2012 at 10:19 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-28 11:26:39 AM  

Trance750: But didn't TFA state it had to be done on US Soil?


Yes, that's why the person you quoted was pointing out that it would be difficult to get this done in a cost-effective manner without going to Bangladesh, where this type of work is usually done.

Reading Comprehension. It's not just for non-Farkers.
 
2012-04-28 11:39:26 AM  

Satanic_Hamster: Kinda surprised they can't tell it; the engine alone must be worth a bit.


Depending on how it's powered, the engines/reduction gears may already be pulled. Same for any useful electronics.
 
2012-04-28 11:48:34 AM  
They have been trying to give it away to a naval museum for years but nobody wanted it.
 
2012-04-28 11:49:54 AM  
All you questiony questioners should RTFA. You can't part it out; you have to scrap it to the point you're just selling the materials.

We wouldn't give it to anyone because it's useless; it's just a concept ship to test stealth technology and that submerged hull design. Has no actual function now that the experimentin' is all done. And a lot of its fiddly bits are still classified, hence the "you must scrap it in 'Murica' rule.

So it's not a $195 million ship. It's a research project that COST $195 million.
 
2012-04-28 11:53:36 AM  
This thing should be in a museum
 
2012-04-28 11:59:12 AM  

Mr. Coffee Nerves: On an unrelated note, does anyone know where I can get Henchman Jumpsuits?


Catholic Thrift Store
 
2012-04-28 12:00:47 PM  
Fark needs a navy.
 
2012-04-28 12:01:23 PM  
You dismantle it bit by bit:
"Own a piece of Cold War history! The Sea Shadow." $100 for a 2x2 piece hunk.
 
2012-04-28 12:08:47 PM  

Buffet: One I had bought it and ownership was transferred NO ONE would tell me what to do with MY property! Period.


That's why they make you agree to scrapping it as a condition of sale before you buy it. Don't scrap it, and you're in breach of contract.
 
2012-04-28 12:13:57 PM  
Guys, its worth substantially less than the 3m that the article throws out. Read that sentence about the steel closely: "So basically, you get 499 tons of scrap metal. If it were all prepared steel, that's roughly $3m worth, so it's unlikely to go for $50K."

It says, if it were all prepared steel, it would be worth 3m, not that it is worth 3m. Given the exotic materials involved to avoid radar and reduce weight, I would suspect there is substantially less steel than a standard ship. Add to the cost of environmental cleanup and hazardous waste disposal and I would stay far away from this project. Dismantling in the US means following the environmental laws and that would eat up the profits. In Bangladesh or India, they just drag it on the beach and blowtorch away regardless of the fumes or materials contaminating the area.
 
2012-04-28 12:16:41 PM  

Mouser: Trance750: MattyFridays: Trance750:

Ok, but when you take into account the the cost for dis-assembly, will you make enough money once you sell off the scrap?

From the article, there's about 3million in scrap there.

Yes but how much will it cost you to get it to the point where you can sell the scrap? That seems like a very costly and labor-intensive job

Ship Breaking is, which is why it's usually done in places like Bangladesh where manpower is dirt cheap. Short of hiring a bunch of illegals to do the work at slave-wages, I'm not sure whether you could turn a profit at in here in the States. That's the reason why the DoD is letting it go for only $50K.


Anyone on Fark who complains about his/her job should take a look at the ship-breaking yards in Alang, India or Chittagong, Bangladesh. They basically run the ships up toward the beach, start taking them apart with cutting torches and comealongs, winch them further up the beach, and repeat. The images on of these places on Google maps give you a sense of scale of those operations. The main US ones that I've heard about are in Brownsville, TX, which also looks interesting on Google maps. In any case, it involves huge environmental damage and foreign nationals, that's why it's generally done in third-world locations like India, Bangladesh, ...and Texas.
 
2012-04-28 12:26:54 PM  

StingerJ: You get the barge, too? Farkers are slipping if you didn't recognize that as the barge from Project Azorian.


I think it comes with the mummified corpse of Howard Hughes as well.

/and several hundred jars of urine.
 
2012-04-28 12:29:48 PM  
Gough:
Anyone on Fark who complains about his/her job should take a look at the ship-breaking yards in Alang, India or Chittagong, Bangladesh. They basically run the ships up toward the beach, start taking them apart with cutting torches and comealongs, winch them further up the beach, and repeat. The images on of these places on Google maps give you a sense of scale of those operations. The main US ones that I've heard about are in Brownsville, TX, which also looks interesting on Google maps. In any case, it involves huge environmental damage and foreign nationals, that's why it's generally done in third-world locations like India, Bangladesh, ...and Texas.

===================

Lazy ass Americans! Too good to do ship breaking! If you ask me, shipping breaking is like living in a Mad Max movie. What normal guy wouldn't want that?

cdn.jazjaz.net

Hell on Earth - The Ship Breaking Yards of Alang and Chittagong
 
2012-04-28 12:29:56 PM  
FYI - it's not the Navy regulations. It's Government Accounting. Also it's a boat, not a ship. And I would assume - Danger CultureVulture! Danger! - the buyers are registered and vetted by GSA procedures and smucks like us... well, like y'all rather, have the old Snowball in Acapulco chance of even getting the bid. I would hope maybe some group could turn this into a museum ship. Mote point... sales condition says scrap it. Once upon a time when they were still in grade school I would have set something like this to one side and told my kids to not touch it. Then come back in a few hours and it would be completely stripped down. They could tear up an anvil with a ripe banana.
 
2012-04-28 12:45:58 PM  

CultureVulture: FYI - it's not the Navy regulations. It's Government Accounting. Also it's a boat, not a ship. And I would assume - Danger CultureVulture! Danger! - the buyers are registered and vetted by GSA procedures and smucks like us... well, like y'all rather, have the old Snowball in Acapulco chance of even getting the bid. I would hope maybe some group could turn this into a museum ship. Mote point... sales condition says scrap it. Once upon a time when they were still in grade school I would have set something like this to one side and told my kids to not touch it. Then come back in a few hours and it would be completely stripped down. They could tear up an anvil with a ripe banana.


coke is a helluofa drug!
 
2012-04-28 12:53:14 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: WhyteRaven74: That makes absolutely no sense whatever, selling the ship to someone under the condition they scrap it.

That's pretty common, especially for specialty demo work.

Kinda surprised they can't tell it; the engine alone must be worth a bit. Unless the military is taking the scrapping thing to mean "we don't want anyone to be able to learn anything from nothing."


Little known fact: The US Navy does not own the reduction gears (transmission) on its larger ships, they are leased. The ones on the ship I served on were owned by Westinghouse. I would imagine the Navy already has taken anything (gas turbines, generators, pumps, evaporaters, etc) it could use in another ship. What is being sold is likely just a hull, piping, wire, and misc. decore scrap.
 
2012-04-28 12:58:41 PM  

CultureVulture: Once upon a time when they were still in grade school I would have set something like this to one side and told my kids to not touch it. Then come back in a few hours and it would be completely stripped down. They could tear up an anvil with a ripe banana.


I hope it's OK, I'm gonna use that phrase from now on. It's a perfect description of what my son would do to stuff when he was that age.
 
2012-04-28 01:00:12 PM  

95629: This thing should be in a museum


Nobody wanted it.
 
2012-04-28 01:02:02 PM  
thumbs.anyclip.com

Junk it!
 
DYI
2012-04-28 01:03:17 PM  

HiFiGuy: You dismantle it bit by bit:
"Own a piece of Cold War history! The Sea Shadow." $100 for a 2x2 piece hunk.


And you make them cut their own damn piece off. Then you get rid of the ship and incur no labor costs!

/stuck in a traffic jam on I-57
//this is my entertainment...
 
2012-04-28 01:04:21 PM  

AbbeySomeone: I wonder what some tweeker could get for that at the scrap metal place?


Probably about $50,000.
 
2012-04-28 01:10:27 PM  

buckler: Buffet: One I had bought it and ownership was transferred NO ONE would tell me what to do with MY property! Period.

That's why they make you agree to scrapping it as a condition of sale before you buy it. Don't scrap it, and you're in breach of contract.


Dammit! You're right. I stand corrected. Thank you.
 
2012-04-28 01:20:16 PM  

Mr. Coffee Nerves: But it's a *stealth* ship -- so if I buy it, leap aboard and suddenly back away from the dock with the appropriate level of cat stroking and maniacal laughing how will they ever find me until I issue my demands?

On an unrelated note, does anyone know where I can get Henchman Jumpsuits?


Try here:

http://www.villainsource.com/misc.html
 
2012-04-28 01:23:11 PM  

Fissile: Gough:
Anyone on Fark who complains about his/her job should take a look at the ship-breaking yards in Alang, India or Chittagong, Bangladesh. They basically run the ships up toward the beach, start taking them apart with cutting torches and comealongs, winch them further up the beach, and repeat. The images on of these places on Google maps give you a sense of scale of those operations. The main US ones that I've heard about are in Brownsville, TX, which also looks interesting on Google maps. In any case, it involves huge environmental damage and foreign nationals, that's why it's generally done in third-world locations like India, Bangladesh, ...and Texas.

===================

Lazy ass Americans! Too good to do ship breaking! If you ask me, shipping breaking is like living in a Mad Max movie. What normal guy wouldn't want that?

[cdn.jazjaz.net image 489x330]

Hell on Earth - The Ship Breaking Yards of Alang and Chittagong


too bad that most of the images on the original deviant art page are gone. Although, the internet wayback machine, in it's infinite greatness long may it reign, has archived at least some of them.
Link
Link
for example
 
2012-04-28 01:23:56 PM  
NOTE: Beware - that site has some thoroughly weird links, so be careful where you click.
 
2012-04-28 01:30:28 PM  
I want my own navy.
 
2012-04-28 01:53:47 PM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Can't we just give it to Iran or something?


Why sure! Obama is even stationing some of our best stealth fighters near them so that one can mysteriously 'crash' there and the Chinese will have a copy. Let's just give 'em all we got!
 
2012-04-28 02:09:27 PM  

95629: This thing should be in a museum


spyhunter007.com
agrees
 
2012-04-28 02:33:38 PM  

MAYORBOB: Will only buy it if I'm allowed to take it for a test spin. You know, to check the wheels, mount the Zargon death ray and annihilate a town or two.


I personally would NEVER use my stealth ship to run 10,000 Kilos of pot and 500 keys of coke from points south.
 
2012-04-28 02:37:13 PM  

Mouser: Trance750: MattyFridays: Trance750:

Ok, but when you take into account the the cost for dis-assembly, will you make enough money once you sell off the scrap?

From the article, there's about 3million in scrap there.

Yes but how much will it cost you to get it to the point where you can sell the scrap? That seems like a very costly and labor-intensive job

Ship Breaking is, which is why it's usually done in places like Bangladesh where manpower is dirt cheap. Short of hiring a bunch of illegals to do the work at slave-wages, I'm not sure whether you could turn a profit at in here in the States. That's the reason why the DoD is letting it go for only $50K.


I could put it in my yard and charge rednecks $10 a pop for the chance to attack it with a sledgehammer for 5 minutes. I could get $20 if it were an old Soviet ship.
 
2012-04-28 02:37:44 PM  
im in the demolition business. scrap is currently about $230 a ton. two excavators with shears could cut it up in about three days. The cost of trucking would be about 10k if its within 20 miles to a scrapyard if youre using an outside hauler. gross would be about 115k at the scales, subtract 20k for moving your machines to dismantle it and hauling to scales, fuel and cutting torch gas.. itll probably go for 75k. the thing would be gone in less than a week.
 
2012-04-28 03:06:36 PM  

SirEattonHogg: Why don't they sell it for far more than 50g to our allies? Or even give it away as good will?


Oh, I don't know. Perhaps the fact that it's 28 years old, was nothing more than a proof of concept with no actual utility even when it was brand new, and presumably was largely an evolutionary dead-end since Navy ships don't look remotely like it 28 years later?

We'd be better off selling it to our allies' enemies. The boondoggle might distract them, and they'd have $3.50 less to spend on feeding their population ... paying somebody to pirate Photoshop CS6 for their next 'rocket launch' ... errr ... buying a loudhailer and a bag of Pop Rocks, then trying to aim the scary noises across the border at South Korea.
 
2012-04-28 03:14:39 PM  
Disposal by scrapping is standard procedure for disposing of vessels (so's using them for target practice...or tying them up in Suisun and forgetting about them...), but getting the scrap dealer to pay YOU for the privilege...that's new, and ballsy.

And yeah, sure, it's a stealth ship. Cutting edge. WHEN IT WAS NEW, in the 80s.

Bet you the radar on any of today's destroyers or the sonar on any of today's attack subs could find it same as if you painted it neon orange and hired a death metal band to play a nonstop concert on the deck while underway.

That's assuming, as noted above, it's even seaworthy and not cannibalized for its more common interior parts already.
 
2012-04-28 03:15:23 PM  

CultureVulture: Also it's a boat, not a ship


From teh Wiki:

Type: Stealth ship
Displacement: 563 long tons (572 t)
Length: 164 ft (50 m)

Length over 100' (and it doesn't submerge) it's a ship in the USN.

CSB time:

I was stationed in San Diego when the Sea Shadow was undergoing testing. During the day she was sealed up in the dry dock but went to sea at night. The humorous part is that it was a 'open secret' at least in the Navy, because we'd see the barge getting towed in or out of port in the evening or morning and say "well, they're testing the stealth ship again".

/csb
 
2012-04-28 03:24:33 PM  

Gough: Anyone on Fark who complains about his/her job should take a look at the ship-breaking yards in Alang, India or Chittagong, Bangladesh. They basically run the ships up toward the beach, start taking them apart with cutting torches and comealongs, winch them further up the beach, and repeat. The images on of these places on Google maps give you a sense of scale of those operations. The main US ones that I've heard about are in Brownsville, TX, which also looks interesting on Google maps. In any case, it involves huge environmental damage and foreign nationals, that's why it's generally done in third-world locations like India, Bangladesh, ...and Texas.


Don't forget Pakistan, where they also use beaching. Also, lots of shipbreaking in China (particularly Jiangmen and Jiangyin) and Turkey, although with at least somewhat better conditions and no beaching.

My family travelled quite a few times on a ship that ended up in Pakistan (P&O's SS Canberra), and I worked on another that was broken up in Jiangmen (Maersk Commander, ex Sine Maersk, was called Gaz Baltic when she was broken up.)
 
2012-04-28 04:00:44 PM  

Mr. Coffee Nerves: But it's a *stealth* ship -- so if I buy it, leap aboard and suddenly back away from the dock with the appropriate level of cat stroking and maniacal laughing how will they ever find me until I issue my demands?

On an unrelated note, does anyone know where I can get Henchman Jumpsuits?


Home Despot.
 
2012-04-28 04:03:30 PM  
Oh great, now you guys made me go and re-install Evil Genius.
 
2012-04-28 04:36:12 PM  
Having an idea what to do with it...

...adjusts sunglasses..

...Must have been under the governments radar...
 
2012-04-28 05:25:09 PM  
I smell a new show for the history channel. American Douchebags.
 
2012-04-28 05:34:12 PM  

Lenny.Bostoch: The host barge (the room around the Sea shadow) is a real rust bucket but it looks impressive in an ugly kind of way.
Remember: you get both ships for the same price.


Okay, the 499 ton Sea Shadow doesn't sound like a great catch, but throw in the 4995 ton support vessel and you're talking some serious steel. The barge has a 1972 built date, I don't know if that means you'd be dealing with PCB's and asbestos.

/Prototypes generally get scrapped
//They teach lessons.
 
2012-04-28 06:06:22 PM  

Daedalus27: Guys, its worth substantially less than the 3m that the article throws out. Read that sentence about the steel closely: "So basically, you get 499 tons of scrap metal. If it were all prepared steel, that's roughly $3m worth, so it's unlikely to go for $50K."

It says, if it were all prepared steel, it would be worth 3m, not that it is worth 3m. Given the exotic materials involved to avoid radar and reduce weight, I would suspect there is substantially less steel than a standard ship. Add to the cost of environmental cleanup and hazardous waste disposal and I would stay far away from this project. Dismantling in the US means following the environmental laws and that would eat up the profits. In Bangladesh or India, they just drag it on the beach and blowtorch away regardless of the fumes or materials contaminating the area.


Yep. Even if the 499 tons were all 100% type #1 scrap steel the most one could get for it would be about $165,000.

I wouldn't go near this with a $2 bill.
 
2012-04-28 06:22:12 PM  
Ishidan: Disposal by scrapping is standard procedure for disposing of vessels (so's using them for target practice...or tying them up in Suisun and forgetting about them...), but getting the scrap dealer to pay YOU for the privilege...that's new, and ballsy.

And yeah, sure, it's a stealth ship. Cutting edge. WHEN IT WAS NEW, in the 80s.

Bet you the radar on any of today's destroyers or the sonar on any of today's attack subs could find it same as if you painted it neon orange and hired a death metal band to play a nonstop concert on the deck while underway.

That's assuming, as noted above, it's even seaworthy and not cannibalized for its more common interior parts already.


I have Dethklock's Murmaider stuck in my head now
 
2012-04-28 06:25:14 PM  

WhyteRaven74: That makes absolutely no sense whatever, selling the ship to someone under the condition they scrap it.


That ship is a piece of classified stealth technology. Requiring the purchaser to scrap it makes perfect sense, and is the only legal way they can sell it.
 
2012-04-28 06:28:14 PM  

Mr. Coffee Nerves: But it's a *stealth* ship -- so if I buy it, leap aboard and suddenly back away from the dock with the appropriate level of cat stroking and maniacal laughing how will they ever find me until I issue my demands?


It's a stealth ship from 1984. It shows up on most GPS displays as a 'Point of Interest'.
 
2012-04-28 06:57:11 PM  

redhook: WhyteRaven74: That makes absolutely no sense whatever, selling the ship to someone under the condition they scrap it.

That ship is a piece of classified stealth technology. Requiring the purchaser to scrap it makes perfect sense, and is the only legal way they can sell it.


If any part of it was in any way classified, you can be damned sure it's already been stripped before it goes to the purchaser. (And it's from 1984, I doubt there's a single classified element left in the design.)
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-04-28 07:41:46 PM  
And it's from 1984, I doubt there's a single classified element left in the design.

The U.S. government hates to declassify information. If there is no legitimate reason to classify the design it will remain classified by inertia until somebody takes action to free it.
 
2012-04-28 08:18:22 PM  
Some coastal city should buy it and sink it to create an artificial reef.
 
2012-04-28 08:20:52 PM  

Ishidan: Disposal by scrapping is standard procedure for disposing of vessels (so's using them for target practice...or tying them up in Suisun and forgetting about them...), but getting the scrap dealer to pay YOU for the privilege...that's new, and ballsy.

And yeah, sure, it's a stealth ship. Cutting edge. WHEN IT WAS NEW, in the 80s.

Bet you the radar on any of today's destroyers or the sonar on any of today's attack subs could find it same as if you painted it neon orange and hired a death metal band to play a nonstop concert on the deck while underway.


Either is irrelevant. You can see the wake of a ship from space, so it doesn't matter if the ship itself is stealthy. You know where it is. So does anybody else with a Navy.

Subs can hear the blades cutting in the water. Torpedoes can hear a dental drill from kilometres away.

You simply cannot hide a warship. The Americans have known this since they went with the "ring of steel" in the 50s. Who knows why they tried this?
 
2012-04-28 09:30:11 PM  

Linoleum_Blownapart: Mr. Coffee Nerves: But it's a *stealth* ship -- so if I buy it, leap aboard and suddenly back away from the dock with the appropriate level of cat stroking and maniacal laughing how will they ever find me until I issue my demands?

It's a stealth ship from 1984. It shows up on most GPS displays as a 'Point of Interest'.


On the other hand, the B-2 Spirit was designed during the same time period (mid 80's, first flight 1989) and is still the best stealth aircraft in the world.
 
2012-04-28 10:14:12 PM  
Bid from Somali pirates in 3, 2,
 
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