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(Fox News)   You're the founder of the "It Gets Better" campaign and delivering an anti-bullying speech. Do you: C) call the Christian teens in attendance "pansy asses" and mock them for walking out of your tirade?   (radio.foxnews.com) divider line 894
    More: Fail, sex columnist, Dan Savage, advice column, Christian mythology, JEA, Savage Love, speeches  
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12772 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Apr 2012 at 2:17 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-28 12:21:36 PM

s2s2s2: Yeah, nothing good has come of the civil discourse. DADT is still firmly in place, and there is still not one state in the USA where gay marriage is legal.

Keep farking that rooster.


The GOP does not play well with themselves, let alone others. At some point, IMO, it should be encouraged to call people out in a blunt fashion. Reasoned discourse only works with reasonable people.
 
2012-04-28 12:21:37 PM

abb3w: doing that at a school assembly is perilously close to an establishment clause infringement.


It's not close to one at all, but as mentioned, that's not even what happened.
 
2012-04-28 12:24:53 PM

peterquince: s2s2s2: Yeah, nothing good has come of the civil discourse. DADT is still firmly in place, and there is still not one state in the USA where gay marriage is legal.

Keep farking that rooster.

But there's been a lot more than civil discourse. I mean, the modern gay rights movement started with a riot.


And stalled for more than 30 years as a result.
 
2012-04-28 12:28:03 PM

s2s2s2: And stalled for more than 30 years as a result.


ha, in what way did it "stall?"
 
2012-04-28 12:28:08 PM

lack of warmth: I think you fail at understanding bullying. Intentially yelling hurtful things against someones beliefs, rallying support of the majority into anger against a few till they leave and then attacking them further for not sitting through more of it. He lowered himself to the level of those he was speaking against and it is abusive. He didn't consider the intent of those kids being there, instead abused them for having their feelings hurt. It would be bullying in your mind if a southern baptist did this same thing to a small group of gay teens, so why is this guy so much better? I will stay just as far away from overzealous nutjob hateful people as I can, gay or Christian.


I absolutely understand bullying. And if he did as you say he did, you would be right. But he didn't, and so your statement is a lie.

1 - he never raised his voice. not once.

2 - challenging a person's beliefs is not ipso facto bullying by ANY reasonable definition.

3 - no one was rallied into anger.

4 - he was hired to provide a certain viewpoint. this viewpoint is widely and publicly distributed as his, and he was hired to provide the same viewpoint he has made a career providing. these young adults knew precisely what they were going to see before they got there.

5 - his comments were not "ad hominem" but instead expressed disbelief at their actions. again, his comments were not about them as human beings, but were about their behavior.

6 - if gay teens voluntarily attended a seminar in a private forum by southern baptists and heard the same message that southern baptists always share in private forums, then no, that would not be bullying. bullying seeks out victims. these young adults voluntarily came to hear him speak, knowing the topic of the speech.

7 - he is an activist. do not be surprised when he advocates a position.
 
2012-04-28 12:28:18 PM

MDGeist: I find it amusing that this "It gets better" guy seems to think getting better means turning into a bully.


"Refusing to be bullied" =/= "Becoming a bully"

You don't have an inalienable right to press your "values" onto someone else without retaliation. You aren't special.
 
2012-04-28 12:28:26 PM

2wolves: s2s2s2: Yeah, nothing good has come of the civil discourse. DADT is still firmly in place, and there is still not one state in the USA where gay marriage is legal.

Keep farking that rooster.

The GOP does not play well with themselves, let alone others. At some point, IMO, it should be encouraged to call people out in a blunt fashion. Reasoned discourse only works with reasonable people.


Then address the GOP. This was high school kids who are more likely to harden their view in the face of insults. Now, if they were so weak minded as to kill themselves over the insults, I'd be with you on pointing out how farking stupid they are.
 
2012-04-28 12:31:26 PM

Confabulat: s2s2s2: And stalled for more than 30 years as a result.

ha, in what way did it "stall?"


They got lots of gay clubs, and nearly zero actual gay rights legislation. Well, maybe some employment protections, but the real rights protections have only started in the last couple years. Hell, Clinton signed DADT into law.
 
2012-04-28 12:32:08 PM

s2s2s2: peterquince: s2s2s2: Yeah, nothing good has come of the civil discourse. DADT is still firmly in place, and there is still not one state in the USA where gay marriage is legal.

Keep farking that rooster.

But there's been a lot more than civil discourse. I mean, the modern gay rights movement started with a riot.

And stalled for more than 30 years as a result.


Not at all. You literally don't know what you're talking about.

1969 - Stonewall riots
1973 - APA admits that the ghey is not a disease
1976 - Harvey Milk becomes the first openly gay public official
1980 - The Democratic party officially puts supporting gay rights on their platform
1982 - Wisconsin outlaws discrimination based on sexual orientation
1984 - The city of Berkeley, CA, offers partner benefits to gov't employees

Just because you're not aware of it doesn't mean it didn't happen.
 
2012-04-28 12:35:38 PM

Confabulat: To be fair, Christian teenagers are some of the worst, most pathetic creatures humanity has to offer. Probably shouldn't call them names at the anti-bullying rally though.


I am just going to slide in here, ignore the rest of the thread, and say THIS.

/saved me some time
//much appreciated
/was a little curious as to what the thread might contain
 
2012-04-28 12:36:10 PM
I thought "pansy ass" was a gay slur. Do you think it doesn't count because Savage is gay? Or is he an idiot for using that slur?
 
2012-04-28 12:36:44 PM

s2s2s2: Hell, Clinton signed DADT into law.


Nice revisionist history. Clinton TRIED to allow gays in the military, but the howling from the bigoted right-wing was so deafening he installed DADT as a compromise measure, as it was still considered an improvement from just being tossed out like before.

DADT only existed because of the right-wing's bigotry and fear. It had nothing to do with any rioting. The gay rights movement has moved our society MILES in those so-called "stalled" 30 years that you pretend exist.
 
2012-04-28 12:37:14 PM

mekki: I thought "pansy ass" was a gay slur. Do you think it doesn't count because Savage is gay? Or is he an idiot for using that slur?


Pansy ass means you're a wuss and a weakling. Effeminacy has nothing to do with sexual orientation.
 
2012-04-28 12:38:40 PM
What he said was basically correct. Christians are part of the problem when it comes to bullying and anyone who thinks otherwise doesn't understand human nature very well.

On the other hand if he had made these very same statements about Muslims he would be called the most vile hate monger in the world, but he would still be right.
 
2012-04-28 12:38:54 PM
"LouDobbsAwaaaay:You don't have an inalienable right to press your "values" onto someone else without retaliation. You aren't special. "


Nor does this guy LouDobbsAwaaaay.
 
2012-04-28 12:38:54 PM

Confabulat: s2s2s2: Hell, Clinton signed DADT into law.

Nice revisionist history. Clinton TRIED to allow gays in the military, but the howling from the bigoted right-wing was so deafening he installed DADT as a compromise measure, as it was still considered an improvement from just being tossed out like before.

DADT only existed because of the right-wing's bigotry and fear. It had nothing to do with any rioting. The gay rights movement has moved our society MILES in those so-called "stalled" 30 years that you pretend exist.


This is a really good point. We often forget that DADT was actually a big step forward.
 
2012-04-28 12:40:08 PM

peterquince: Confabulat: s2s2s2: Hell, Clinton signed DADT into law.

Nice revisionist history. Clinton TRIED to allow gays in the military, but the howling from the bigoted right-wing was so deafening he installed DADT as a compromise measure, as it was still considered an improvement from just being tossed out like before.

DADT only existed because of the right-wing's bigotry and fear. It had nothing to do with any rioting. The gay rights movement has moved our society MILES in those so-called "stalled" 30 years that you pretend exist.

This is a really good point. We often forget that DADT was actually a big step forward.


Well it would have been if the "Don't ask" part wasn't pretty much ignored and used to still hound people out.
 
2012-04-28 12:41:35 PM

MDGeist: "LouDobbsAwaaaay:You don't have an inalienable right to press your "values" onto someone else without retaliation. You aren't special. "


Nor does this guy LouDobbsAwaaaay.


You don't have an inalienable right to never be subjected to speech you disagree with. You aren't special. You Christians need to be taught the difference between your rights and the incredible amount of special privilege you've been spoiled with.

It makes you bad people.
 
2012-04-28 12:41:46 PM

peterquince: s2s2s2: peterquince: s2s2s2: Yeah, nothing good has come of the civil discourse. DADT is still firmly in place, and there is still not one state in the USA where gay marriage is legal.

Keep farking that rooster.

But there's been a lot more than civil discourse. I mean, the modern gay rights movement started with a riot.

And stalled for more than 30 years as a result.

Not at all. You literally don't know what you're talking about.

1969 - Stonewall riots
1973 - APA admits that the ghey is not a disease
1976 - Harvey Milk becomes the first openly gay public official
1980 - The Democratic party officially puts supporting gay rights on their platform
1982 - Wisconsin outlaws discrimination based on sexual orientation
1984 - The city of Berkeley, CA, offers partner benefits to gov't employees

Just because you're not aware of it doesn't mean it didn't happen.


As a supporter of gay equality, I find that to be a fncking pathetic list.
Thank you for making my point.
 
2012-04-28 12:42:58 PM
"firefly212: Yup, C. Those farkers bully people all the time, then walk out"

See. There's your problem. "those farkers." What do you mean by "those?" Because you're conflating lots of different people into one group, you get all confused.

A group of highschool kids were at a journalism conference...

But "those people" who bully all the time are NOT the same as "those people" who walked out. Those people who walked out were highschool kids with a certain belief system.

The analogies to racism / sexism / anti-semiticism / anti-Muslimism are relevant wrt your post.

"Those black guys Always steal shiat from convenience stores. That one black guy who did nothing wrong DESERVED to be punched in the face, because he's a black guy, and they steal shiat from convenience stores!"

That's what you sound like, fyi.
 
2012-04-28 12:44:31 PM
"ignore the bullshiat in the Bible"

seems like good advice for a kid
 
2012-04-28 12:45:08 PM

Confabulat: s2s2s2: Hell, Clinton signed DADT into law.

Nice revisionist history. Clinton TRIED to allow gays in the military, but the howling from the bigoted right-wing was so deafening he installed DADT as a compromise measure, as it was still considered an improvement from just being tossed out like before.

DADT only existed because of the right-wing's bigotry and fear. It had nothing to do with any rioting. The gay rights movement has moved our society MILES in those so-called "stalled" 30 years that you pretend exist.


I meant it as a timeline, not an indictment of Clinton. You should look up the word stalled. It doesn't always mean stopped outright.
 
2012-04-28 12:46:05 PM
Ahhh so I see, this guy can make fun of others for their believes but no one can make fun of his LouDobbsAwaaaay? I mean the whole point of "It gets Better" is to help kids through bullying about their beliefs and life styles, yet you want to teach them it's ok to bully others over thier choices at the same time?

Mayne you should drop the hate all around and not just pick and choose what makes you feel better.
 
2012-04-28 12:50:50 PM

MDGeist: Ahhh so I see


You clearly don't. You have been raised to think you have a right to deprive others of their rights, and anything that stands in your way is an affront to your liberty.

You. Aren't. Special. You never were, and you never will be. You need to be told you are a spoiled brat and you need to learn to play by the rules. And if that makes you cry, that isn't a violation of your rights either.

Now stop being a pansy ass and be an adult, you whiny little biatch.
 
2012-04-28 12:51:37 PM

LouDobbsAwaaaay: You clearly don't. You have been raised to think you have a right to deprive others of their rights, and anything that stands in your way is an affront to your liberty.


Exactly. What's more important to you people, how people treat PEOPLE or how they treat BOOKS?
 
2012-04-28 12:52:46 PM

s2s2s2: You should look up the word stalled


Um, you seem to be the one that doesn't understand the term.
 
2012-04-28 12:55:42 PM
URBN:

"It really is just a case of homophobes can dish it out in spades through rhetoric, violence and legislating away people's civil rights, but they can't even handle the smallest amount of non-violent, calm, and rational criticism in return."


Confused as to when high school kids legislated away people's civil rights, or when these highschool kids engaged in acts of violence?

(at this point, I am far less concerned with what Savage said (he should've used more appropriate language, blah) than with y'all homophobephobes lumping people into huge groups, being unable to discern between people in that group, and applying the viewpoints of the extremists in that group to the beliefs and behaviors of everyone...)
 
2012-04-28 12:55:53 PM

sweatybronson: Those people who walked out were highschool kids with a certain belief system.


sweatybronson: "firefly212: Yup, C. Those farkers bully people all the time, then walk out"

See. There's your problem. "those farkers." What do you mean by "those?" Because you're conflating lots of different people into one group, you get all confused.

A group of highschool kids were at a journalism conference...

But "those people" who bully all the time are NOT the same as "those people" who walked out. Those people who walked out were highschool kids with a certain belief system.

The analogies to racism / sexism / anti-semiticism / anti-Muslimism are relevant wrt your post.

"Those black guys Always steal shiat from convenience stores. That one black guy who did nothing wrong DESERVED to be punched in the face, because he's a black guy, and they steal shiat from convenience stores!"

That's what you sound like, fyi.


He didn't bully Christians. If anything, he bullied bigots that cherry pick the bible to excuse their bigotry. How can you not see that? Christians that have no problem with gay people should agree with what he said.

Accusing Savage of being anti-christian (at least in regard to this situation) is like accusing a black man of hating whites because he is opposed to the KKK.

Christians are not all anti-gay bigots.
Whites are not all racist bigots.
 
2012-04-28 12:56:21 PM
But but but Jesus says I can bully those who are different than me. That's why God made them stand out so it'll be easier for me to spot them.
 
2012-04-28 12:56:32 PM

MarkEC: Mrtraveler01: MarkEC: alowishus: GilRuiz1: You're utterly free to rant away, anti-bully dude; and I'm utterly free to not listen to your rants.

What did he say that was wrong?

On a forum that filters out the word bull**** because it's NSFW, we have a bunch of people who think it's OK to use it when speaking to a group of high school students. Classy!

Like I said, he probably could've used different wording. But I totally agree with the message and I can't see how anyone can disagree with that.

He could have used much different wording. He called not eating shellfish bull****. We know now we can eat it when properly cooked. We know now you can have gay sex using a condom and be somewhat protected. Did they know that thousands of years ago? NO. So calling it all BS is wrong. Explaining why it shouldn't hold sway today would be a much better approach. If AIDS had been around during the Roman Empire, it would have fallen much sooner.


Aids is worse than The Plague?

See Justinian.

Read a book.
 
2012-04-28 01:01:13 PM
Well, I watched the video. That was not bullying. Seriously.

/still think a fair number of those leaving were doing so because they saw someone else go... they're farking teenagers... it's what they do
//also, some people really have no idea what a communist is. Like, they are so far out there that it boggles my mind. If you're going to get angry about something, at least get it right.
 
2012-04-28 01:01:42 PM
It's high time for straight Christians who claim to not be like the conservative Evangelicals to speak up and condemn them for their anti-gay bigotry. They're not going to listen to me, I just get written off as a degenerate trying to justify my sin, but if you're really concerned about how Christians are being viewed, don't go attacking Dan Savage for stating the truth about their bigotry, go call out the bigots within the church.

I do. All the time. On the internet, so it's meaningless mostly, but then the conversation we're having is on the internet, sooooo...

I can point out Savage's inappropriateness, and point out the hasty generalizin' comin' from the anti-Christian brigade here, without making it impossible for me to also support gay rights and engage with conservative Christians on the issue elsewhere.

I am large, I contain multitudes!
 
2012-04-28 01:06:03 PM

peterquince: phoolishone: That he resorted to bullying was quixotic;

He expressed disbelief at their reactions. That's not bullying. That's questioning their behavior.


Making fun of people's religion is bullying. Calling people names is bullying. He didn't say to them, "Why are you leaving? You are cowards for leaving." He berated their religion and called them "pansy-asses".

BTW, isn't "pansy" synonymous with "gay"? The man who didn't want the mean old Christians to bully gay people was calling them gay? LOL whut?
 
2012-04-28 01:06:19 PM
Actually LouDobbsAwaaaay I do see in fact I see better then you.

Not once have I stated my belief, you are so full of hate agaisnt christians you just assumed and you've attepted to bully me over it to make your self feel better. I am not christian I am just against thnking bullying others is a good way to solve being bullied your self. Had you not been blinded by your own sad hate maybe you too would see that.
 
2012-04-28 01:06:40 PM

s2s2s2: Then address the GOP. This was high school kids who are more likely to harden their view in the face of insults. Now, if they were so weak minded as to kill themselves over the insults, I'd be with you on pointing out how farking stupid they are.


These are the Young Republicans.
 
2012-04-28 01:07:18 PM
I say, show the christians what a real war on religion looks like.
 
2012-04-28 01:09:39 PM

MDGeist: I find it amusing that this "It gets better" guy seems to think getting better means turning into a bully. Seems a lot of you on Fark seem to think the same. Not sure that's how it should work though.


The anti-bullying campaign is not to stop bullying. That would be stupid.
 
2012-04-28 01:09:48 PM
peterquince:

You do not have to raise your voice to bully.

When not done in a reasonable fashion challenging someones beliefs can be bullying.

There is plenty of anger flowing just in FARK alone to be considered rallying anger.

He is welcome to his viewpoints, however who goes to listen to a guy already knowing what they will say?

They felt they wanted to leave and that is somehow a terrible thing. How dare they exercise their rights?

Many overzealous churches have attacked very hard those that are unsuspecting of what is not coming and I do not think these teens knew it was going to be personally against them. If they had remained seated no one would have known their stance. By leaving, the only message was I disagree with you. So, what if they leave. They have that right and I feel by attacking them is bullying.

He can be an activist, however I will not agree with bully like behavior.

Being a Christian I believe in baptism, however I do not believe in baptizing babies. When my little niece was baptized, I did go knowing what was going to happen. My family and I became very uncomfortable being there knowing our beliefs, so we left before service was over but not before the baptism. I was very much bullied by my sil after this and was banished for several years from coming near my brother's family. We discussed before hand how I felt and I in no way created a scene during the baptism. She acted as if I had stood and screamed judgments at everyone in the room. Her reaction did tempt me to actively protest baby baptisms just to tick her off. I know bullying.
 
2012-04-28 01:09:52 PM
Was prepared to take Savage to task for being stupid enough to sink to his opponents level. But having now seen the video, with the quote in context...

So what? Big deal.
 
2012-04-28 01:12:38 PM
alowishus - I wasn't talking about Savage, but about Firefly:

"firefly212: Yup, C. Those farkers bully people all the time, then walk out"

I've repeated elsewhere, but I know it's hard to parse out who's saying what... What Savage said was inappropriate, and a poor choice of words. It was exaggerated into berating and bullying by Faux News. Certain people on this forum have shown that they have a problem with conflating -- They fail to see the continuum of Christian, and conservative Christian, beliefs and actions. They blame people (kids at a highschool journalism conference) for the actions of people who are not those people.

Those highschool kids WERE too obviously easily offended - Savage shouldn't have cussed, but they should have stayed.

However, saying 'those highschool kids always bully people' is wrong. Saying 'those highschool kids have legislated away gay rights' is wrong. And that's what Firefly et al. have said.

So some people here just need to, you know, stop being wrong, and start getting their conflation-problems under control.
 
2012-04-28 01:12:50 PM

rocketpants: "ignore the bullshiat in the Bible"

seems like good advice for a kid


Yes, and the part Dan Savage stressed is also important: We, as a society, agree to ignore lots of it. I think the flipside is also a valuable lesson: You won't fit into our society as easily if you, as an individual, don't ignore the bullshiat in the bible.
 
2012-04-28 01:13:05 PM

sweatybronson: I do. All the time. On the internet, so it's meaningless mostly, but then the conversation we're having is on the internet, sooooo...

I can point out Savage's inappropriateness, and point out the hasty generalizin' comin' from the anti-Christian brigade here, without making it impossible for me to also support gay rights and engage with conservative Christians on the issue elsewhere.

I am large, I contain multitudes!


Other than the foul language, what did he say that was inappropriate? If you are a Christian that supports gay rights, what part of his statement do you disagree with?

I am honestly confused.
 
2012-04-28 01:13:36 PM
So attacking high school children based on their religion is acceptable to liberals now?

/Is there anything you farkers can't justify?
 
2012-04-28 01:13:37 PM

Confabulat: South Park did it.


Came here to say the exact same thing. Glad someone took care of it early.
 
2012-04-28 01:14:02 PM

peterquince: s2s2s2: peterquince: s2s2s2: Yeah, nothing good has come of the civil discourse. DADT is still firmly in place, and there is still not one state in the USA where gay marriage is legal.

Keep farking that rooster.

But there's been a lot more than civil discourse. I mean, the modern gay rights movement started with a riot.

And stalled for more than 30 years as a result.

Not at all. You literally don't know what you're talking about.

1969 - Stonewall riots
1973 - APA admits that the ghey is not a disease
1976 - Harvey Milk becomes the first openly gay public official
1980 - The Democratic party officially puts supporting gay rights on their platform
1982 - Wisconsin outlaws discrimination based on sexual orientation
1984 - The city of Berkeley, CA, offers partner benefits to gov't employees

Just because you're not aware of it doesn't mean it didn't happen.


And the modern gay rights movement started with Frank Kameny co-founding The Mattachine Society to lobby for gay rights in 1961.
 
2012-04-28 01:14:14 PM

TV's Vinnie: But but but Jesus says I can bully those who are different than me. That's why God made them stand out so it'll be easier for me to spot them.


As far as I've read, Jesus said to bully nobody. Jesus' teachings were pretty good - love your neighbor, etc. It's just that most Christians glom onto the portions that St. Paul wrote in the Bible as justification, which often had nothing to do with (or sometimes directly contradicted) what Jesus taught.
 
2012-04-28 01:15:10 PM

s2s2s2: You should look up the word stalled. It doesn't always mean stopped outright.




t1.gstatic.com

/so true
//couldn't find a George Michael version
 
2012-04-28 01:16:23 PM

Daraymann: So attacking high school children based on their religion is acceptable to liberals now?

/Is there anything you farkers can't justify?


Ignorance.
 
2012-04-28 01:19:35 PM

Daraymann: So attacking high school children based on their religion is acceptable to liberals now?

/Is there anything you farkers can't justify?


I don't think there is any justification for such a weak troll.
 
2012-04-28 01:22:32 PM

Confabulat: s2s2s2: You should look up the word stalled

Um, you seem to be the one that doesn't understand the term.


Didn't look it up, did you?
 
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