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(LA Times)   Of the $200,000 in donations George Zimmerman raised from his website, he's already blown through $50,000 of it on "living expenses, rent or whatever"   (latimes.com) divider line 931
    More: Obvious, donations, attorney-in-fact, expenses  
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15992 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Apr 2012 at 3:58 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-28 08:01:31 PM

GoSurfing: MarkEC: GoSurfing: MarkEC: There are only 2 entrances and they both are on the same street. How else is he supposed to identify one versus the other? He knows them as the front entrance and the back entrance, I bet the street cops knew what he was talking about.

Gone after this, but that's simple-you identify them by the streets they intersect.

The cross street is also the same, it's a circle.

The streets the entrances intersect with, as in Oregon Ave, Lowe Ave. You don't tell a dispatcher "main entrance" "back entrance" You tell him he is running toward the southeastern entrance, or the intersection of Twin Trees and Lowe Ave.


Twin trees doesn't intersect Lowe Ave, your googlemapfu just failed. It's Oregon Avenue or S Oregon Ave. Damn those streets are confusing.
 
2012-04-28 08:03:08 PM

white history month: Lotta folk willing to forgo the whole guilty until proven innocent bit concerning this case...


Because Trayvon was black and was killed by someone not black. There is only one explanation in this kind of situation, and that is racism. Racism always means guilty, cause whitey is always keeping the black folk down. Get with the pogram.
 
2012-04-28 08:03:33 PM
LOL we really will argue about anything.
 
2012-04-28 08:06:40 PM
<b><a href="http://www.fark.com/comments/7075096/76529537#c76529537" target="_blank">MarkEC</a>:</b> <i>GoSurfing: MarkEC: GoSurfing: MarkEC: There are only 2 entrances and they both are on the same street. How else is he supposed to identify one versus the other? He knows them as the front entrance and the back entrance, I bet the street cops knew what he was talking about.

Gone after this, but that's simple-you identify them by the streets they intersect.

The cross street is also the same, it's a circle.

The streets the entrances intersect with, as in Oregon Ave, Lowe Ave. You don't tell a dispatcher "main entrance" "back entrance" You tell him he is running toward the southeastern entrance, or the intersection of Twin Trees and Lowe Ave.

Twin trees doesn't intersect Lowe Ave, your googlemapfu just failed. It's Oregon Avenue or S Oregon Ave. Damn those streets are confusing.</i>

Oops you're correct- I was panned out towards where S. Oregon becomes Lowe Ave.
 
2012-04-28 08:07:26 PM

phygz: 2- there is no evidence anyone was "chasing" anyone. Following does not equal chasing.


It is possible to follow someone without chasing them, yes. But if they are running, and you are running, that's chasing. Zimmerman says that Martin ran, and on that phone call you can hear Zimmerman huffing and puffing. He chased Martin. Caught him, too, else Martin wouldn't be dead.

Some people here would like to portray GZ as chasing with gun in hand, arms flailing. I seriously doubt that GZ pulled his gun out at any time before he shot the kid, then again I don't know, and neither do any of the armchair detectives screaming cold-blooded murder.

I mostly agree with you. I doubt he had the gun out while he was chasing Martin. But he did chase him, and he was armed.

If he had not chased Martin when Martin ran, he could have stayed at his car to meet the cops, and he wouldn't have killed an innocent kid.

And that's the bottom line. He killed a kid who wasn't breaking any laws, wasn't doing anything wrong. He was being a normal kid, walking home from the store with candy in his pocket and talking to his GF.

As facts emerged and it became more clear that there was no racial motivation for the shooting, the focus closed in on the "injustice" of the shooter not being charged. GZ was cuffed, taken in for questioning for hours and released not because the police didn't care about justice, but because there was no evidence or case to arrest him on.

No evidence except a dead body, a smoking gun, an admission that he shot the kid. A 911 call where he admits he's following the guy, and where he's talking about "Assholes always get away".

They didn't do alcohol or drug testing on Zimmerman. They didn't seem to try very hard to contact Martins family. (As I've said, Martin was on the phone, so he had a phone on him or lying nearby.) That's not a normal investigation. That's my biggest issue with the whole thing, and has been since I first heard the story.

If you still think this is all about "injustice" and not about the need to show how "the evil white society still has it out for the hapless black man", answer this truthfully-

I've specifically said that it's not a racial thing to me, it's about cops not doing their job and what looks, to me, like a killing that didn't get fully investigated. I'm white, I don't consider this to be "an evil white society". I don't care what color either of them are, I don't want people to get away with murder. I'm not opposed to guns - but if you use your gun to kill someone who was minding their own business, you go to jail. If you use your gun to rob someone, you go to jail. You don't get to attack strangers who aren't doing anything wrong and then kill them when they fight back.

Claiming I'm in it for racial reasons is nonsense. You're spewing crap, nothing more.

if white kid "Trevor Martin" was gunned down by a black man under the exact same circumstances, would there be the same outrage?

Most likely, if that had happened, there would have been a real investigation, instead of sending the shooter home to his own bed a couple of hours later. But your question is essentially "If the same thing had happened, the races were different, and the cops had done the same non-investigation?" and yes, I think there would still be outrage. I know I would still be bothered by it, because I don't like turning known murders lose.

As I said before, *who* was outraged would be different. Obviously, Al and Jesse and Black Panthers wouldn't be going nuts over it - but a lot of the people who are currently screaming that Zimmerman has every right to start a fight and then shoot the other guy would be raising hell about letting the shooter go if it were a dead white guy and a black shooter. A lot of them are choosing sides based on a dead black kid, just like a lot of blacks are going nuts because it was a dead black kid and the shooter was just sent home to bed.

And a lot of people, like myself, would still be upset about it because no matter what color they are, I don't want people wandering around their neighborhood shooting anyone they feel like and the cops just saying "Okay, we're fine with that".

9beers: When have we had a chance to hear Zimmerman's statements to the police? Hilarious that you can speculate all you want on this case, even after the prosecution admits to not having the evidence to support it, but when somebody else speculates, you're sure that they're wrong.


You claimed that Martin was casing houses. Zimmerman does not state anything similar on the 911 call. That's one of you many lies.

You also keep claiming "The prosecution states they don't have any evidence", yet they are still prosecuting. If they really felt like they had zero evidence, the way you claim, then why would they go to court? They do have evidence. They have that 911 tape, which makes it clear that your hero chased the kid and that he was pissed about "assholes getting away" and that he wasn't going to let it happen this time. And they have a dead body and a smoking gun.

9beers: Face it dude, there's not a shred of evidence that Zimmerman committed a crime that night.


To most people a smoking gun and dead body are enough to raise suspicion. To you, it's a reason to give the shooter a medal and make him a hero.

Silly Jesus: Trayvon was in two gangs and had just finished a drug deal when he was on the way back to his dad's house.


This sort of thing is why I have you marked as a lying troll. You have made not attempt to debate anything I've said, you just rambled off a lot of bullshiat. You're almost as bad as 9beers.

Mavent: Yes, just like OJ gained "immunity from a civil action" by being aquitted.


OJ wasn't being tried under Florida law. I'm pretty sure that if he isn't convicted in criminal court, he's immune in civil court. And I don't have a problem with that. In a legitimate self defense situation, the guy shouldn't get sued. I just don't consider this a legitimate self defense claim because Martin wasn't committing a crime, and Zimmerman was the one that initiated everything.
 
2012-04-28 08:09:51 PM

GoSurfing: Silly Jesus: GoSurfing: Silly Jesus: The officer wouldn't have know what the fark they were talking about. They probably don't have a database of the cardinal directions of various Sanford sidewalks in their heads.

Most every single thing in Florida is built according to North, South, East, West, because it is almost all flat. If you are on most any street anywhere in Florida, and you can't tell where north is, you're an asswipe. Nearly everything is gridded-out.

You better hurry up and let someone know that they stuck a bunch of curving and s-shaped streets in Zimmerman's neighborhood. They need to fix that. It should be a grid.

BOOM GOES THE DYNAMITE

The whole point of what I'm saying is that he didn't actually need to get out of his truck in the first place to accurately report where Trayvon Martin was going. If Trayvon Martin is as thuggish as many here purport, I wouldn't have put myself any closer to danger by doing that. I would have remained in my vehicle until the police arrived.


The dispatcher asked where Martin was...he couldn't see where he'd gone from his truck. He got out to learn the location of Martin and to see at what address he was located.

BOOM GOES THE DYNAMITE
 
2012-04-28 08:13:44 PM

JuggleGeek: You claimed that Martin was casing houses. Zimmerman does not state anything similar on the 911 call. That's one of you many lies.


Did I ever say that Zimmerman said that in the 911 call? We haven't heard Zimmerman say what exactly Martin was doing that raised his suspicions so until it's confirmed that Zimmerman never thought that Martin might have been casing houses, I'll continue speculating it.
 
2012-04-28 08:14:13 PM

GoSurfing: <b><a href="http://www.fark.com/comments/7075096/76529537#c76529537" target="_blank">MarkEC</a>:</b> <i>GoSurfing: MarkEC: GoSurfing: MarkEC: There are only 2 entrances and they both are on the same street. How else is he supposed to identify one versus the other? He knows them as the front entrance and the back entrance, I bet the street cops knew what he was talking about.

Gone after this, but that's simple-you identify them by the streets they intersect.

The cross street is also the same, it's a circle.

The streets the entrances intersect with, as in Oregon Ave, Lowe Ave. You don't tell a dispatcher "main entrance" "back entrance" You tell him he is running toward the southeastern entrance, or the intersection of Twin Trees and Lowe Ave.

Twin trees doesn't intersect Lowe Ave, your googlemapfu just failed. It's Oregon Avenue or S Oregon Ave. Damn those streets are confusing.</i>

Oops you're correct- I was panned out towards where S. Oregon becomes Lowe Ave.


Like I said, I bet the street officers knew exactly where Zimmerman was talking about even though the dispatcher didn't, just like a AAA tow truck driver will have an easier time finding you than a dispatcher would. I had a similar exchange with a AAA dispatcher when I was in a hospital parking lot. Me: "I'm in the lot nearest the visitor entrance" Dispatcher: "What road is that on?" Me: "The driver will know where I'm talking about" and he did.
 
2012-04-28 08:38:51 PM

JuggleGeek: phygz: 2- there is no evidence anyone was "chasing" anyone. Following does not equal chasing.

It is possible to follow someone without chasing them, yes. But if they are running, and you are running, that's chasing. Zimmerman says that Martin ran, and on that phone call you can hear Zimmerman huffing and puffing. He chased Martin. Caught him, too, else Martin wouldn't be dead.

Some people here would like to portray GZ as chasing with gun in hand, arms flailing. I seriously doubt that GZ pulled his gun out at any time before he shot the kid, then again I don't know, and neither do any of the armchair detectives screaming cold-blooded murder.

I mostly agree with you. I doubt he had the gun out while he was chasing Martin. But he did chase him, and he was armed.

If he had not chased Martin when Martin ran, he could have stayed at his car to meet the cops, and he wouldn't have killed an innocent kid.

And that's the bottom line. He killed a kid who wasn't breaking any laws, wasn't doing anything wrong. He was being a normal kid, walking home from the store with candy in his pocket and talking to his GF.

As facts emerged and it became more clear that there was no racial motivation for the shooting, the focus closed in on the "injustice" of the shooter not being charged. GZ was cuffed, taken in for questioning for hours and released not because the police didn't care about justice, but because there was no evidence or case to arrest him on.

No evidence except a dead body, a smoking gun, an admission that he shot the kid. A 911 call where he admits he's following the guy, and where he's talking about "Assholes always get away".

They didn't do alcohol or drug testing on Zimmerman. They didn't seem to try very hard to contact Martins family. (As I've said, Martin was on the phone, so he had a phone on him or lying nearby.) That's not a normal investigation. That's my biggest issue with the whole thing, and has been since I first heard the story.

If you st ...


Umm, let's start with your first paragraph. Zimmerman did not chase and catch Martin. Martin ran down a path and around a corner and out of Zimmerman's sight. Zimmerman got out of his truck and ran around the corner to see where Martin went. When he rounded the corner he didn't see Martin anymore. He was then on the phone with 911 for another minute or two and was pacing around in that same general area (where the fight happened) and then he said he headed back to his truck and the fight occurred. This means that Martin either circled back around the building or was hiding on a porch/behind a fence for a period of time.

Saying that Zimmerman chased down and caught Martin is pants on head retarded at best and purposefully disingenuous at worst.

We'll start with that untruth that you keep throwing out, then we can tackle the rest.
 
2012-04-28 08:52:41 PM

JuggleGeek: You also keep claiming "The prosecution states they don't have any evidence", yet they are still prosecuting. If they really felt like they had zero evidence, the way you claim, then why would they go to court?


Probably for the same reason they stated in the affidavit that Zimmerman continued following and confronted Martin, both things that they admitted in court that they had no evidence of. Probably the same reason they said that Martin's mother identified the voice as her son while leaving out that Zimmerman's family identified it as George and that an eyewitness also claimed it was was Zimmerman. Probably the same reason they didn't even bother to check to see if Zimmerman had sought medical treatment after the incident.

If you're really that naive that you don't think the prosecutor would file charges for any reason other than having proof of a crime, I feel bad for you.
 
2012-04-28 08:53:04 PM

9beers: Sorry if I refuse to care about somebody who chose violence as the answer.


Your hero was the one carrying a gun and looking for trouble. And your hero is the one that shot an unarmed kid and killed him.

Martin wasn't looking for trouble, he was walking home from the store and talking on the phone to his GF.

tirob: Zimmerman also told the 911 dispatcher that he would meet the police he summoned where his truck was parked near some mailboxes. He then promptly reversed himself and indicated that he would prefer that the cops call him back to determine where he was. I don't think that he intended to mislead anyone, but in my mind this is evidence that he wasn't entirely forthcoming with the dispatcher about his intentions.


I didn't think he mislead anyone at all.I thought it made his intentions quite clear. He wasn't going to go back and wait at the truck, he was going to continue hunting for Martin. Which he did. Then he found him, then there was a fight, then he killed him.

Silly Jesus: Also, you're whole "if Zimmerman did blank, Martin would still be alive" schtick is asinine. If Martin had continued home and not either doubled back or hidden behind a fence, he would still be alive...If Martin didn't have correct change at the store and had to wait for the cashier longer he wouldn't have met Zimmerman....If Zimmerman's truck broke down he wouldn't have seen Martin...see how stupid that game is?


I certainly see how farking stupid you are.

You can't think of any reason that he wouldn't have wanted to lead the crazy guy directly to his house? Really? I've had someone following me that I didn't know, and I didn't go home. Didn't even drive by my house, because I'd already noticed them. Several blocks away, I circled the block, they kept following me. I drove to the police station, they quit following me. But you'll say any stupid thing you can to justify this murder.

You are saying that no matter what Zimmerman did, he shouldn't be held responsible for his actions, even though they led directly to him killing an unarmed kid.

I remember thinking it was odd that he couldn't give them a street name, or any kind of approximation of the address. Neighborhood watch guy, you should know the names of the street, and roughly what the address is. However, I don't consider this an important issue because him knowing or not knowing the names of the streets has nothing to do with whether him killing Martin or whether he should be convicted.
 
2012-04-28 08:54:08 PM
^^^wouldn't.
 
2012-04-28 08:56:36 PM

JuggleGeek: 9beers: Sorry if I refuse to care about somebody who chose violence as the answer.

Your hero was the one carrying a gun and looking for trouble. And your hero is the one that shot an unarmed kid and killed him.

Martin wasn't looking for trouble, he was walking home from the store and talking on the phone to his GF.

tirob: Zimmerman also told the 911 dispatcher that he would meet the police he summoned where his truck was parked near some mailboxes. He then promptly reversed himself and indicated that he would prefer that the cops call him back to determine where he was. I don't think that he intended to mislead anyone, but in my mind this is evidence that he wasn't entirely forthcoming with the dispatcher about his intentions.

I didn't think he mislead anyone at all.I thought it made his intentions quite clear. He wasn't going to go back and wait at the truck, he was going to continue hunting for Martin. Which he did. Then he found him, then there was a fight, then he killed him.

Silly Jesus: Also, you're whole "if Zimmerman did blank, Martin would still be alive" schtick is asinine. If Martin had continued home and not either doubled back or hidden behind a fence, he would still be alive...If Martin didn't have correct change at the store and had to wait for the cashier longer he wouldn't have met Zimmerman....If Zimmerman's truck broke down he wouldn't have seen Martin...see how stupid that game is?

I certainly see how farking stupid you are.

You can't think of any reason that he wouldn't have wanted to lead the crazy guy directly to his house? Really? I've had someone following me that I didn't know, and I didn't go home. Didn't even drive by my house, because I'd already noticed them. Several blocks away, I circled the block, they kept following me. I drove to the police station, they quit following me. But you'll say any stupid thing you can to justify this murder.

You are saying that no matter what Zimmerman did, he shouldn't be held responsi ...


Aaaaand the answer is pants on head retarded.

Ignore. You cannot possibly have anything of substance to contribute to this, or any other conversation.
 
2012-04-28 08:59:13 PM

JuggleGeek: Your hero was the one carrying a gun and looking for trouble. And your hero is the one that shot an unarmed kid and killed him.

Martin wasn't looking for trouble, he was walking home from the store and talking on the phone to his GF.


Speculations are all the mob has left and that's sad. Let it go and focus your anger on a case where there's some actual evidence of a crime. In this one, a 17 year old with a checkered past resorted to violence and it cost him his life.
 
2012-04-28 08:59:25 PM

9beers: Did I ever say that Zimmerman said that in the 911 call? We haven't heard Zimmerman say what exactly Martin was doing that raised his suspicions so until it's confirmed that Zimmerman never thought that Martin might have been casing houses, I'll continue speculating it.


You didn't speculate it, you stated it as fact. And there is zero evidence of that. If Zimmerman thought Martin was casing houses, he would have said so on the 911 call, and he didn't.

9beers: If you're really that naive that you don't think the prosecutor would file charges for any reason other than having proof of a crime, I feel bad for you.


Prosecutors hate losing cases. They prefer to work a plea bargain so they don't have to risk losing (and because it saves them time.) They hate going to court if they don't feel they have enough evidence to get a conviction. I'm not saying they are honest, I'm saying that they seriously give a shiat about their conviction rate.
 
2012-04-28 09:03:16 PM

JuggleGeek: You didn't speculate it, you stated it as fact. And there is zero evidence of that. If Zimmerman thought Martin was casing houses, he would have said so on the 911 call, and he didn't.


Lets talk about phone calls for a minute. Martin's girlfriend never said that he took off running, and actually claimed that he said he wasn't going to run. Since we know that's a lie, her entire story is bullshiat.
 
2012-04-28 09:26:28 PM

s2s2s2: I should note that one does not have to sustain great bodily harm to be justified in the use of deadly force, only have a reasonable fear of it.


Also, I'm not calling you out, just expanding on what you said.

Even here, I think we can say BOTH parties had a reasonable fear, but one guy had a gun and the other didn't
 
2012-04-28 09:31:45 PM

9beers: You know, maybe Zimmerman beat himself up, just like Ed Norton in Fight Club.


www.floridacriminaldefenselawyerblog.com
More likely than you think. Conservatards do weird things like that
 
2012-04-28 09:39:01 PM

cretinbob: 9beers: You know, maybe Zimmerman beat himself up, just like Ed Norton in Fight Club.

[www.floridacriminaldefenselawyerblog.com image 450x337]
More likely than you think. Conservatards do weird things like that


Zimmerman is a registered democrat.
 
2012-04-28 09:43:34 PM

9beers: Nobody ever said that Florida's law allows you to blow away anybody who assaults you. If you were walking down the road and somebody shoves you after you accidentally step on their toe, you might find yourself in some trouble if you pull out a gun and kill them.


This is the true issue


Because the "stand your ground law" is so vague, then yeah, you can and then turn around and say you felt threatened for your life. And then the cops say "OK" and let you walk away without any investigation. THAT is what is wrong here.
 
2012-04-28 09:44:22 PM

cretinbob: Even here, I think we can say BOTH parties had a reasonable fear, but one guy had a gun and the other didn't


Which means what, Zimmerman was bound by honor to respond only with his fists?
 
2012-04-28 09:44:35 PM

s2s2s2: Zimmerman is a registered democrat.


Silly, liberals don't carry guns.
 
2012-04-28 09:44:48 PM

cretinbob: s2s2s2: I should note that one does not have to sustain great bodily harm to be justified in the use of deadly force, only have a reasonable fear of it.

Also, I'm not calling you out, just expanding on what you said.

Even here, I think we can say BOTH parties had a reasonable fear, but one guy had a gun and the other didn't


Which means what?
 
2012-04-28 09:45:51 PM

9beers: Which means what, Zimmerman was bound by honor to respond only with his fists?


That the law is fuct.
 
2012-04-28 09:47:13 PM

cretinbob: 9beers: Nobody ever said that Florida's law allows you to blow away anybody who assaults you. If you were walking down the road and somebody shoves you after you accidentally step on their toe, you might find yourself in some trouble if you pull out a gun and kill them.

This is the true issue

Because the "stand your ground law" is so vague, then yeah, you can and then turn around and say you felt threatened for your life. And then the cops say "OK" and let you walk away without any investigation. THAT is what is wrong here.


So long as you are bleeding out the back of your head, have a broken nose, and called the police to have them come out to deter a potential perp.
 
2012-04-28 09:48:00 PM

cretinbob: Because the "stand your ground law" is so vague, then yeah, you can and then turn around and say you felt threatened for your life. And then the cops say "OK" and let you walk away without any investigation. THAT is what is wrong here.


No they don't, there has to be evidence to support the claim of self defense.
 
2012-04-28 09:49:31 PM

cretinbob: s2s2s2: Zimmerman is a registered democrat.

Silly, liberals don't carry guns.


You know better than that.

cretinbob: 9beers: Which means what, Zimmerman was bound by honor to respond only with his fists?

That the law is fuct.


Why? Because when attacked, you can fight back? Because hindsight can be murky as fnck?
 
2012-04-28 10:01:02 PM

9beers: cretinbob: Because the "stand your ground law" is so vague, then yeah, you can and then turn around and say you felt threatened for your life. And then the cops say "OK" and let you walk away without any investigation. THAT is what is wrong here.

No they don't, there has to be evidence to support the claim of self defense.


and again, there is no evidence that shows Zimmerman was in any danger , certainly not any that he didn't put himself in anyway. The medic's PCR is going to show that he didn't not receive a serious head injury. I known that because they signed him off, as well as having see the bullshiat "enhanced" video. I'd love to see the clear image the the PD took, then I could better figured out the mechanism of injury. If there aren't any pictures of it, then that means it was such an insignificant wound that they didn't bother, or, as also has been alleged and is somewhat evident, the police were incompetent and really did no investigation at all.
But again, that's why Zimmerman, or anyone else who shoots and kills anyone and claims stand your ground, needs to be arrested, the weapon needs to be secured and they need to stand trial. If there are pictures of the blood stain and lab samples that show it came from Zinmmerman on the sidewalk, then that is evidence and fine. If there aren't, then there is no evidence, and well....


//remember they were fighting in the grass
 
2012-04-28 10:03:29 PM

s2s2s2: Why? Because when attacked, you can fight back? Because hindsight can be murky as fnck?


Because you can't prove who attacked whom because it's one person's word against a dead guy.


//didn't not....goddamnit
 
2012-04-28 10:06:58 PM

cretinbob: 9beers: cretinbob: Because the "stand your ground law" is so vague, then yeah, you can and then turn around and say you felt threatened for your life. And then the cops say "OK" and let you walk away without any investigation. THAT is what is wrong here.

No they don't, there has to be evidence to support the claim of self defense.

and again, there is no evidence that shows Zimmerman was in any danger , certainly not any that he didn't put himself in anyway. The medic's PCR is going to show that he didn't not receive a serious head injury. I known that because they signed him off, as well as having see the bullshiat "enhanced" video. I'd love to see the clear image the the PD took, then I could better figured out the mechanism of injury. If there aren't any pictures of it, then that means it was such an insignificant wound that they didn't bother, or, as also has been alleged and is somewhat evident, the police were incompetent and really did no investigation at all.
But again, that's why Zimmerman, or anyone else who shoots and kills anyone and claims stand your ground, needs to be arrested, the weapon needs to be secured and they need to stand trial. If there are pictures of the blood stain and lab samples that show it came from Zinmmerman on the sidewalk, then that is evidence and fine. If there aren't, then there is no evidence, and well....


//remember they were fighting in the grass


So you haven't seen the picture taken at the scene? It is in this thread.
Once again, severe injuries do not have to happen, only the fear of great bodily harm(losing a tooth counts). Broken nose, bleeding head = Self defense claim likely to stand.
 
2012-04-28 10:08:34 PM

cretinbob: and again, there is no evidence that shows Zimmerman was in any danger , certainly not any that he didn't put himself in anyway. The medic's PCR is going to show that he didn't not receive a serious head injury.


So he had to wait until his skull was caved in before using deadly force?
 
2012-04-28 10:08:46 PM

cretinbob: s2s2s2: Why? Because when attacked, you can fight back? Because hindsight can be murky as fnck?

Because you can't prove who attacked whom because it's one person's word against a dead guy.


//didn't not....goddamnit


Per 776.041 makes this point moot.

NEXT!
 
2012-04-28 10:24:18 PM
patdollard.s3.amazonaws.com

Oh, and here's the full pic that was taken "three minutes" after he shot Martin, taken by an "unknown photographer" There is an laceration approx 2mm long. There is also some periwound ecchymosis or abrasion. It's hard to tell because ir's a shiatt copy.That's also not a hella lot of blood.I've see skinned knees that bled more than that. The fact that it's already clotted and drying also indicates the fact that it's a minor wound. Superficial is a term that relates to depth. A deep laceration would require suturing and he would have been transported to the closest ESD for that before being taken to jail.
This is factual and is something that will come up later.

I just found out that both of Martin's hands were under his body when it was found....interesting

Link
 
2012-04-28 10:26:10 PM

cretinbob: I just found out that both of Martin's hands were under his body when it was found....interesting


Oh boy, I can't wait to hear what you think this means.
 
2012-04-28 10:33:55 PM

person making no sense whatsoever: omeganuepsilon: 9beers: GoSurfing: Why did Zimmerman have to exit his vehicle to even report the street name?.

What? Zimmerman exited his vehicle after Martin took off running.

I'm looking forward to a citation for that as well.

Zimmerman: Yeah. You go in straight through the entrance and then you would go left. You go straight in, don't turn and make a left. He's running. [2:08]

911 dispatcher: He's running? Which way is he running?

Zimmerman: Down toward the other entrance of the neighborhood. [2:14]

911 dispatcher: OK, which entrance is that he's headed towards?

Zimmerman: The back entrance.

911 dispatcher: Are you following him? [2:24]

Zimmerman: Yeah. [2:25]

911 dispatcher: OK. We don't need you to do that. [2:26]

Zimmerman: OK. [2:28]

Citation provided.

 
2012-04-28 10:37:30 PM

9beers: cretinbob: and again, there is no evidence that shows Zimmerman was in any danger , certainly not any that he didn't put himself in anyway. The medic's PCR is going to show that he didn't not receive a serious head injury.

So he had to wait until his skull was caved in before using deadly force?


It is right there in his name. Cretin.
It's like arguing with letroll
 
2012-04-28 10:42:17 PM

9beers: Oh boy, I can't wait to hear what you think this means.


It means he was laying face down with his hands under him, wtf do you think it means?

Seriously, read this link. Zimmerman is going to have a hard time defending himself in court.
 
2012-04-28 11:02:05 PM

cretinbob: [patdollard.s3.amazonaws.com image 600x350]

Oh, and here's the full pic that was taken "three minutes" after he shot Martin, taken by an "unknown photographer" There is an laceration approx 2mm long. There is also some periwound ecchymosis or abrasion. It's hard to tell because ir's a shiatt copy.That's also not a hella lot of blood.I've see skinned knees that bled more than that. The fact that it's already clotted and drying also indicates the fact that it's a minor wound. Superficial is a term that relates to depth. A deep laceration would require suturing and he would have been transported to the closest ESD for that before being taken to jail.
This is factual and is something that will come up later.

I just found out that both of Martin's hands were under his body when it was found....interesting

Link


Again, as myself and many others have said here, we have experienced blacking out do to head strikes before (my particular situation was against a concrete driveway during a basketball game, others have said brick wall etc.) and had little to no bleeding. Focusing on the blood when there is the possibility of an underlying head injury is missing the point entirely.

The prosecution has stated that the investigation determined that Martin was shot in the chest at very close range based on stippling, residue and burn marks.

The last witness saw Martin on top of Zimmerman seconds before the shot was fired. Zimmerman somehow got out from underneath Martin and Martin's body rolled. How is the placement of his hands significant?

Your profile says you enjoy the art of trolling. This is borderline, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

/I hate cats
 
2012-04-28 11:02:15 PM

9beers: cretinbob: I just found out that both of Martin's hands were under his body when it was found....interesting

Oh boy, I can't wait to hear what you think this means.


Martin is on top, he gets shot, he grabs his chest and is either pushed off, or with his last bit of life, pulls off and falls down. The end.
 
2012-04-28 11:09:53 PM

cretinbob: It means he was laying face down with his hands under him, wtf do you think it means?


Which means what? You do realize that Martin was shot in the chest, right? I would say that in the seconds before he died, he clutched at the hole in his chest while he fell off of Zimmerman and that's how he landed.
 
2012-04-28 11:14:45 PM
The story about the bail and Zimmerman's PayPal account doesn't pass the "unbiased journalism" smell test. Tipoff: The mugly ugly photo of Z's lawyer. Second tipoff: Lack of journalistic questioning on the "whatever" the lawyer oddly included in the list of Zimmerman's $50,000 expenses.

I'm just guessing, but if the "whatever" turns out to be "$45,000 retainer" that would be an excellent reason for the lawyer not exactly wanting to divulge it. Assuming he really doesn't care at all about his client. Just that he now has his hands on the PayPal account.
 
2012-04-28 11:15:05 PM
cretinbob:

I was reading your link with interest, until I got to this paragraph a few pages in...

If Zimmerman was not actually getting his head deliberately bashed into concrete - which, from the lack of any genuine injuries and improbability of that scenario, would seem to be the case - then Zimmerman was not justified in using force against Trayvon, no matter what his actual beliefs were. Zimmerman may have had the adrenaline rushing through his blood, may have perceived his opponent as a murderous thug gang-member rather than a skinny teenager because of the presence of a hoody; it's possible Zimmerman really did think that a wrestling match on the grass with a skinny teenager somehow put his life in mortal danger. But his hyperactive threat perception system does not excuse him.

The writer is so blatantly biased here, even to the point of being sarcastic and mocking, that she, and your link, lose all presumption of objectivity and therefore credibility.
 
2012-04-29 12:20:38 AM
This is really important to some people.
 
2012-04-29 12:35:13 AM

Silly Jesus: The writer is so blatantly biased here, even to the point of being sarcastic and mocking, that she, and your link, lose all presumption of objectivity and therefore credibility.


Yeah, there's stuff that can be skipped over. The actual statutes that will apply are what's important.

and yes, I may or may not be doing a little trolling
 
2012-04-29 01:03:34 AM

2wolves: This is really important to some people.


And incredibly interesting to others.

Also, tiny American flags!
 
2012-04-29 01:21:51 AM
Black man with no significant criminal history beats a Hispanic woman and her 10 year old daughter to death with a hammer for no reason.

Link
 
2012-04-29 04:01:46 AM
Mavent:
They're more worried about Zimmerman's "right to carry around a gun acting like Deputy Dawg" than they are about the fact that a teenager died.

Does EVERY leftist think they can read minds? Do you have a survey, or are you just talking out your ass here?

And, to your major point -- read this twice if you need to -- EVEN IF ZIMMERMAN COULD HAVE PREVENTED THIS, THAT DOES NOT MAKE HIM GUILTY OF MURDER. We could avoid a lot of deaths by just letting people take anything, and rape, and rob without going after them, because, OMG, someone could DIE. Yeah, they could. Any time a large building goes up, there is usually at least one casualty, on average. So... don't build anything? It's good to stop robberies. And, again, it takes a lot of evidence to convict someone of murder, and it's simply not there in this case. Surely you don't want a murder conviction just because the lighter-skinned of the two people involved is the survivor.... right?

And, as others have said, going for the murder charge pretty well guarantees that Zimmerman goes free. The prosecutor aimed WAY too high. I, for one, think that is a GOOD thing. One of the things we need LEAST in this country is to have prosecutors taking part in lynch mobs. If the prosecutor had not been infected with bloodlust from the crowd, or caved to political pressure, he might have gone for "wrongful death," or something similar, and had a chance at a conviction.
 
2012-04-29 04:38:52 AM
tirob:
I did not claim the things you say I claimed, and I urge you to reread the Florida self-defense statute. It permits the use of deadly force when an actor reasonably believes s/he is in imminent danger of great bodily harm. And neither you nor I know whether Zimmerman, according to that statute and its accompanying case law, fit that description in the seconds before he used his pistol on Martin.

And that's the key point. ONLY Zimmerman knows if he was fearing grave bodily harm at that point. Especially if he SAYS he was, do you believe there is enough evidence to convince 12 people that he didn't fear for his life, or fear GBH, BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT? Yeah, he had a few whacks to the head, his nose was broken, and he was down, under the tender mercies of the thug who had given him the injuries. Would you say that it was well-nigh impossible that he feared GBH at that point? That is a VERY tough sell. "Yeah, but it COULD have happened like..." doesn't cut it. Hell, oftentimes that is not enough to generate reasonable doubt, let alone quash it. Arguing about it is pointless. Barring new evidence, there won't be a conviction in anything approaching a fair court.
 
2012-04-29 04:56:20 AM
Silly Jesus:
In the call, when Zimmerman was telling the dispatcher the age, he said "late teens" and was then immediately interrupted. Often people do say "late teens, early twenties" and Zimmerman was/is I think 28. If this was the case then suddenly his big "lie" looks a lot less damning. I'm not saying this is what happened, but it certainly seems plausible when reviewing the call. I know that I frequently will say "late teens, early twenties" and rarely just narrow it down to "late teens."

At the very least this is something that the defense could argue were this to become a big issue, but I don't think that it will.

Your Honor, the defendant has clearly failed to estimate the victim's weight within five pounds, so we move to strike the defense's claim of "self-defense".
 
2012-04-29 05:23:40 AM

GeneralJim: Your Honor, the defendant has clearly failed to estimate the victim's weight within five pounds, so we move to strike the defense's claim of "self-defense".


*snort*

Indeed.

I hear he picked the wrong numbers for the lottery as well. Someone get a rope NOW!
 
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