"Go away. 'batin'!!!!!" Is what happened.

The internet made it so that every idiot has input into who's important and worthy of worship, rather than the editorial boards of a few publications like it it used to be.

Done in the Boobies.

Some assholes started glorifying Ronald Reagan, is what happened.

/yeah i was one of them
//but i was cured by education, years ago
///the remaining assholes have no excuse

I think it started with the Jerry Springer type shows. The greater your dysfunction, the greater your celebrity.

We've created a society of the people on the Long Island drunk train.

"You think you better than me?!" *drink to the face*

I think it has to do with accessibility and homogeneity of culture. Science and politics used to be a common touchstone, while culture was very much localized. Now, science* and politics seem fragmented and culture gets packaged by Hollywood and shipped out to every corner of the country/globe.

/*I use "science" loosely here in the age of the uninformed citizen "scientist".

We respected Margaret Thatcher?

JerseyTim: We respected Margaret Thatcher?

Well, I like the movie.

Done in one.

As the 21st century began, human evolution was at a turning point. Natural selection, the process by which the strongest, the smartest, the fastest, reproduced in greater numbers than the rest, a process which had once favored the noblest traits of man, now began to favor different traits. Most science fiction of the day predicted a future that was more civilized and more intelligent. But as time went on, things seemed to be heading in the opposite direction. A dumbing down. How did this happen? Evolution does not necessarily reward intelligence. With no natural predators to thin the herd, it began to simply reward those who reproduced the most, and left the intelligent to become an endangered species.

Diogenes: I think it started with the Jerry Springer type shows. The greater your dysfunction, the greater your celebrity.

We've created a society of the people on the Long Island drunk train.

"You think you better than me?!" *drink to the face*

Yeah, because freak shows are such a new phenomenon. it's the medium that changed, not the appeal.

SurfaceTension: Diogenes: I think it started with the Jerry Springer type shows. The greater your dysfunction, the greater your celebrity.

We've created a society of the people on the Long Island drunk train.

"You think you better than me?!" *drink to the face*

Yeah, because freak shows are such a new phenomenon. it's the medium that changed, not the appeal.

[www.bookdrum.com image 500x380]

Did people aspire to be circus freaks? Not the way they emulate Jersey Shore defects.

it probably has something to do with the advent of television and its "vast wasteland." humans are animals. and just as a dog will eat itself to death if given an unlimited supply of food, so too humans will "amuse themselves to death" if given an unlimited supply of mass entertainment.

JerseyTim: We respected Margaret Thatcher?

Well, consider the fact that she was the first female Prime Minister of England and more or less a pioneer for women. She was the first female head of state (non-monarch) in Europe. The US still has not had a female President. In the rear view mirror, we can second guess her policies, but she broke a fairly significant glass ceiling that women in many first world countries have yet to break. And she showed the boys that she could run with the big dogs.

FlashHarry: it probably has something to do with the advent of television and its "vast wasteland." humans are animals. and just as a dog will eat itself to death if given an unlimited supply of food, so too humans will "amuse themselves to death" if given an unlimited supply of mass entertainment.

Democratization of the mass media. The more choices you give people, the more choices they will exercise, and like a grocery store where the junk food aisle out sells the produce section, people may not always choose what is best for them. Add to that a media industry that is more than happy to keep that going because it generates vast sums of wealth for them, and it's not that hard to figure out. People crave entertainment. Look at cable news channels - most of them are more like entertainment than real in depth news. Even most of our "news" sources could be better described as "infotainment."

I'm pretty sure they were glorifying stupid celebrities back then, too.

Humanity isn't dumber, only different.

"Celebrity-worship and hero-worship should not be confused. Yet we confuse them every day, and by doing so we come dangerously close to depriving ourselves of all real models. We lose sight of the men and women who do not simply seem great because they are famous but are famous because they are great. We come closer and closer to degrading all fame into notoriety."

That was social theorist Daniel J. Boorstin back around 1961.

The golden age never happened.

Sorry to say, but society at large has not changed at all. Every generation has its Kim Kardashian, they are just forgotten by history.

Jake Havechek: Margaret Thatcher?

Hitler with a bad wig you mean?

You know, now that I think about it, I don't think even the British respected Thatcher all that much when she was in power.

the author poses a good question...but she wimps out on an answer.

for what it's worth, I don't think there is any one single reason for our decline...I think there's a lot of little reasons combined that have pulled us off into the land of distraction.

The Marie Curie sex tape is very difficult to masturbate to.

I didn't say "impossible."

One word: Idiocracy

Mr. Coffee Nerves: The Marie Curie sex tape is very difficult to masturbate to.

That's surprising. They were given glowing reviews.

BKITU: Mr. Coffee Nerves: The Marie Curie sex tape is very difficult to masturbate to.

That's surprising. They were given glowing reviews.

*golf clap*

Shostie: I'm pretty sure they were glorifying stupid celebrities back then, too.

Humanity isn't dumber, only different.

James!: The golden age never happened.

DamnYankees: Sorry to say, but society at large has not changed at all. Every generation has its Kim Kardashian, they are just forgotten by history.

Came in here to say something like this. In 100 years people are gonna say, "Once, we as a society respected great leaders and thinkers like Steve Jobs, Stephen Hawking, Neil deGrasse Tyson, [insert your particular favorite politicians]. Now, we glorify Generic Pop Culture Icon and Generic Pop Culture Icon. What happened?"

And so it goes.

Dancin_In_Anson: BKITU: Mr. Coffee Nerves: The Marie Curie sex tape is very difficult to masturbate to.

That's surprising. They were given glowing reviews.

*golf clap*

Meh, I saw right through that joke.

I've often wondered the same thing, Subby.

I think every aging generation bemoans the younger generation. Lighten up, Francis.

Nabb1: Meh, I saw right through that joke.

It was a more refined age...

Eva Tanguay anyone?

She built an entire Vaudeville career out of the line "I don't care." She was one of the biggest names in entertainment in the teens and at the time the smart set were bemoaning her popularity as the dawn of a new age of barbarism

The Kardasians and Jersey Shore are just modern versions of the phenomenon.

James!: [collider.com image 320x389]

It was a more refined age...

I like the cut of your jib, good sir.

Sorry, folks, the past was full of attention whores and good-fer-nothins and all sorts of bullshiat, it's just that the tabloids and gossip rags and over-the-fence whisperings weren't preserved for us to see. Only the Great and Good remain for us to marvel at.

For example, Grover Cleveland was said to have fathered an illegitimate child, and there was a popular vaudeville tune composed specifically for the allegation. But I'm supposed to believe that mud-slinging is a recent political development. I call shenanigans.

Now, we glorify Kim Kardashian and Justin Bieber.

Maybe you do...

Have the Kardashians killed anyone by sodomizing them with a Coke bottle? I mean, that we know of?

maliklockett: How famous were Marie Curie and Thomas Edison while they were alive?

I thought she was very popular for glamorizing the career of aviatrix.

Shostie: You know, now that I think about it, I don't think even the British respected Thatcher all that much when she was in power.

Ya think?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwnkFlVRCZc

Every generation looks at the following generation and writes clay tablets, scrolls, illuminated manuscripts, newspaper articles, and blog posts about "what's wrong with those crazy kids?"

Short answer: Nothing, daddy-o.

Liberals' obsession with political correctness caused this. We can no longer effectively categorize anyone or anything as better or more valuable than anyone or anything else. Everyone is a beautiful, unique snowflake. Thus you have a society in which the worst among us are elevated to celebrities.

Do you think it's more likely that 100 years ago factory workers would go home and talk about the genius of Marie Curie, or did they go home and talk about Clara Bow banging a football team?

You also have to take into account that before water purification became common most people were drunk 24/7.

blazemongr: Mass media hadn't happened, and most of humanity hadn't migrated to the urban centers yet, which meant most of the world was either hunting, growing, or gathering its food for sixteen out of every twenty-four hours. They didn't care about the great artistic minds of our age because, honestly, they didn't know they EXISTED.

There were vestigial forms of mass media out there.

Let's not forget the Lizzie Borden trial, which was obsessively reported to an audience hungry for the details on the crime.

Horseshiat.

NOBODY respected those people. They had tabloids and trashy entertainment in Edison's day too. People visited mental institutions to laugh at the inmates as a form of amusement.

And what a bunch of pretentious hogwash that article is. Oh, because you followed a ballerino when you were young makes you better than the people who followed Marilyn Monroe? Like the past was some sort of intellectual era where people read Shakespeare, played chess and listened to classical music? ....none of that happened. Alvin & The Chipmunks was a #1 song, The Kardashians are this generations Gabor sisters, and Justin Bieber is Bobby farking Rydell. Nothing has changed, except maybe our accessibility to pop culture. The internet has not increased choice and availability, it has only accelerated people's tastes and habits toward market uniformity. Why? ...because people are farking lemmings.

Back to the article: Your nostalgic past was neither better, smarter, more noble or more pure than today. This is, once again, typical Boomer naval-gazing for the era they grew up in as some sort of highly exalted bastion of human greatness.

No. Every generation is just as dumb as the last, and enjoys things on a level just as lowbrow and superficial as it always has been.

SurfaceTension: Yeah, because freak shows are such a new phenomenon. it's the medium that changed, not the appeal.

This. Shiat hasn't changed, it's just that because of the internet everytime some desperate editor has to fill some page space we get to see a poorly researched, half-thought-through story decrying the decline of civilization where before we only had to suffer through this crap on Sunday and when the local paper was having a slow day.

Shaggy0717: Weaver95: the author poses a good question...but she wimps out on an answer.

for what it's worth, I don't think there is any one single reason for our decline...I think there's a lot of little reasons combined that have pulled us off into the land of distraction.

such as all those 'little ritalins'

I hate to say it but....it's the result of an infotainment culture that *despises* any sort of intellectual pursuit. they've trained us to want the BANG and FLASH, not to sit down and ponder through entertainment that might provoke a tiny spark of brain use. But they're not entirely to blame...we've got one of our two major parties that cuts education spending every chance it gets. plus a large sub-culture of evangelical christians who believe that education is an evil plot by the debbil. we've been teaching kids not to question authority, not to go beyond their home towns, not to see whats on the other side of the hill. we stopped looking outward, and turned inward. sure - you could blame 'the media' or 'the Republicans' or 'the Democrats'...and to be fair, every one of those groups has played a part in narrowing our vision and dumbing down our culture. But we didn't have to listen. we can still say 'f*ck off' and do our own thing. And some of us do just that...but it's becoming more rare and just easier to go along with the flood of stupidity.

Abundance of resources means we lack discretion of investments of time, money, or effort. But, all is not lost, because the important folks still create legacies whereas the nonimportant are mere distractions. Society still respects thinkers.

Nothing at all. Previous eras glorified thier sports stars, and "it" girls and minor celebrities just as much as we do. But their fame faded quickly as they had never done anything really worth remmebering, That's why the only people we remember from bygone eras were those whose contributions were of real note. The dross melts away and only the truly exceptional endures. It's the same reason we always believe that the music of a bygone era is " better" than today's, all the crap has been forgotten and only the really excellent music remains.

and BTW Thomas Edison was not a thinker or a man of any real note. he was a thief and shameless self-promoter who built a myth around himself that has been enshrined as the truth by lazy "historians"

You don't go civilization building with the leaders you want.
You go with the leaders you have.

We got nuttin.

markie_farkie: "Go away. 'batin'!!!!!" Is what happened.

Idiocracy reference. Done in one.

/electrolytes are what plants crave

mbillips: [0.tqn.com image 160x206]
Have the Kardashians killed anyone by sodomizing them with a Coke bottle? I mean, that we know of?

I came for someone mentioning Fatty, and found it. And it's allegedly, and I thought he crushed them... but in any event, his accuser was someone who was blackmailing him....


Look, point is, every age is FULL of Kim Kardashians and Fatty Arbuckles, they will simply not be remembered.... historical figures are remembered by history, and later fondly, SOME are even loved at the time... but Edison? During his own time? While warring with Tesla and Westinghouse? Not a lovable mythical figure who invented things and loved everyone. The man was a psycho prick bastard, but he was a productive one.

The rose colored glasses worn by people who bring this up as a societal issue are epic; Matched only perhaps by their nostalgia for a time they DIDN'T ACTUALLY LIVE IN!

If you're going to stupidly pine for a different time, at least pine for one you existed in.

SideNote: We still give nobels, if you can't name any recent recipients, then I guess you're the damned problem - so stop blaming those "masses of idiots".

DamnYankees: Sorry to say, but society at large has not changed at all. Every generation has its Kim Kardashian, they are just forgotten by history.

See this guy?:

In the early centuries AD you could have purchased this or something like it at the souvenier shop in the Coliseum. This was basically the early AD equivalent of a baseball card and the now anonymous figure's name would have been as familiar to you and everyone around you as the emperor's. and you would likely have thought him THE paragon of manhood and virtue and screamed your lungs out chanting his name in the arena. Now? all he ever was is just more of the dust of history.

Ars longa, Vita brevis and Fame? it's the most fleeting of all

IrateShadow: maliklockett: How famous were Marie Curie and Thomas Edison while they were alive? I would venture that most of their popularity came after they were dead.

Edison was fairly well known, but that's mostly because he was a ruthless bastard and shameless self promoter. And there are plenty of academics that were well known in their time, but it usually only happens when they do something big. Einstein and Salk immediately come to mind, and more recently we've had Hawking, Sagan, and Feynman.

==================

Yup, Edison was not much of an inventor. The phenomenon of electrically induced incandescence was discovered by an English scientist decades earlier...in fairness, said English scientist didn't think his discovery could have much practical value.

Edison was not a trained scientist/engineer. As far as anyone knows, his knowledge of math was no greater than 9th grade algebra. He went about inventing the light bulb by trial and error, without understanding any of the physical properties of the materials he was testing. Tesla described Edison's invention of the light bulb as, "A man looking for a needle in a haystack by removing and examining each straw one by one."

Edison had very little to do with most of his other inventions. He hired naive engineers and scientists to do the grunt work. When they produced something that looked promising, he had them sign over the patent, and then he would fire them.

At one point, Edison claimed that he owned the copyright of any film produced with an Edison movie camera. Imagine if the guy who sold you paper and pencils claimed that he owned the copyright to your novel. Eventually the courts struck it down.

He "proved" that the competing Westinghouse AC systems were dangerous by going around the country and electrocuting various animals in public displays...mostly dogs and cats, but including one circus elephant. The film of Edison electrocuting an elephant still exists, you can see it here: Edison Elephant BBQ

Edison was notorious for not paying wages owed or even his personal bills.

All around, an unpleasant man.

Magorn: Nothing at all. Previous eras glorified thier sports stars, and "it" girls and minor celebrities just as much as we do. But their fame faded quickly as they had never done anything really worth remmebering, That's why the only people we remember from bygone eras were those whose contributions were of real note. The dross melts away and only the truly exceptional endures. It's the same reason we always believe that the music of a bygone era is " better" than today's, all the crap has been forgotten and only the really excellent music remains.

and BTW Thomas Edison was not a thinker or a man of any real note. he was a thief and shameless self-promoter who built a myth around himself that has been enshrined as the truth by lazy "historians"

Other papers of the time reveal a very broad distrust of TE. Think of Geotpf: majestic: maliklockett: Did we revere scientists? Especially during their day?

How famous were Marie Curie and Thomas Edison while they were alive? I would venture that most of their popularity came after they were dead.


It would seem to me that most of the people who were famous while alive were famous for more dubious exploits: athletes, outlaws etc. People who were well known for their scandals

Don't know about Curie, but Edison was a farking rock star back in his day.

The modern version of Thomas Edison is Steve Jobs, or maybe Bill Gates.

Remember kiddies, history is written right or wrong because a library survived.

In our world "history" is being written by Murdoch and his sycophants.
Or the Bush Library if it survives.

Feeling well educated?

Edison was a puke that got lucky, more like Al Gore.

/good news is Edison was correct

Cult of Personality

/oh yeah

It's because people these days respect flash and glitter, but not substance

My niece is 10 yrs old and when asked what she wanted to be when she grew up she stated " I want to be famous ! " I asked what she wanted to famous for, being a doctor,lawyer, artist , etc.. She told me " I just want to be famous like the people on TV but Mom says I'm not allowed."

CrispFlows: TrainedWalrus: FTFY

Wozniak is much more of a genius than Bill Gates can ever be.

/ But Gates are definitively better for humanity due to his philanthropic efforts.

I believe the referrence was to the sourse of Gates' sourse code.

yeah, there were no Kardashians back then...



/the Gabors
//Zsa Zsa was married 9 times
///Kim only has 7 more to go to beat her!
////can she do it?

StaleCoffee: If you want to be famous fast, be loud and stupid.

If you want to be famous for a long time, make a lasting, major contribution to the world.

If you want to be famous forever, enforce an ideology by killing several million people.

"Bread and circuses" isn't a new concept, though.

=============

There is more to it than that. Both Mao and Stalin piled up the bodies higher than Hitler, but Hitler is the guy everybody knows today. If you want to go by percentages, Pol Pot offed half the population of Cambodia....a world record, but whho knows Pol Pot today?

The Third Man: I knew a lot of people at Somerville College, Oxford--Thatcher's old college. A statue of Thatcher was put up by the college administration after she retired...that same night a large group of students tore the statue down and broke it into pieces. The administration rebuilt the statue and re-dedicated it...and that night another large group of students tore the statue down and threw it in a garbage skip. Thatcher was hated, hated, hated at Oxford.

A picture of the statue builder...

Fissile: There is more to it than that. Both Mao and Stalin piled up the bodies higher than Hitler, but Hitler is the guy everybody knows today. If you want to go by percentages, Pol Pot offed half the population of Cambodia....a world record, but whho knows Pol Pot today?

if ask people in Asia the Hitler-Pol Pot situation is reversed.

CrispFlows: Avery614: CrispFlows: snocone: Remember kiddies, history is written right or wrong because a library survived.

Yeah - I'm not too happy about the library of Alexandria being burned down in three separate occasions, one of which 'to prevent the enemy getting anything'.

Oh, also f*ck the conquistadors for destroying priceless 'heathen' artifacts and architecture.

Don't forget the catholic church for printing over Archimedes work that would be re-imagined by Isaac Newton and Gottfried Wilhelm von Leibniz as calculus almost 2000 years later.

Link

Wha-

We're really good at screwing over knowledge, aren't we, eh?

One does wonder what knowledge is currently sequestered, THAT CITIZENS FARKIN' PAID FOR.

/no you cannot haz

ph0rk: bhcompy: We also respected Steve Jobs, but maybe that's just because he stole everything like Thomas Edison

At least Jobs paid people.

Foxconn.

gameshowhost: Some assholes started glorifying Ronald Reagan, is what happened.

/yeah i was one of them
//but i was cured by education, years ago
///the remaining assholes have no excuse

I was this close to clicking the "Smart" button, then I remembered that I was NEVER fooled by Ronald Reagan. Of course, having my political education enhanced by by my grandfather's thoughts (he was a cousin of Senator William Fulbright) helped. My grandfather hated only three people ever born. Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan, and Barbara Walters. So of course, every morning we got up bright and early, so he could watch the Today Show so he could cuss at her, and start the day happy.