FARK.com: (7074476) Once, we as a society respected great leaders and thinkers like Thomas Edison, Marie Curie, Teddy Roosevelt, and Margaret Thatcher. Now, we glorify Kim Kardashian and Justin Bieber. What happened?

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		Once, we as a society respected great leaders and thinkers like Thomas Edison, Marie Curie, Teddy Roosevelt, and Margaret Thatcher. Now, we glorify Kim Kardashian and Justin Bieber. What happened? (slate.com)		436
		More: Scary, Marie Curie, Teddy Roosevelt, Margaret Thatcher, Thomas Edison, Kim Kardashian, Justin Bieber, human beings, Barneys New York

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CheekyMonkey		2012-04-27 03:09:37 PM

Geotpf: majestic: maliklockett: Did we revere scientists? Especially during their day?

How famous were Marie Curie and Thomas Edison while they were alive? I would venture that most of their popularity came after they were dead.

It would seem to me that most of the people who were famous while alive were famous for more dubious exploits: athletes, outlaws etc. People who were well known for their scandals

Don't know about Curie, but Edison was a farking rock star back in his day.

The modern version of Thomas Edison is Steve Jobs, or maybe Bill Gates.

Definitely Jobs. Both Edison and Jobs are complete douchebags. Bill Gates is only two-thirds douchebag.

dennysgod		2012-04-27 03:11:47 PM

Ruined TV and pop-culture forever. After this show talent was no longer a requirement to get "famous".

Mikey1969		2012-04-27 03:12:07 PM

Nothing has changed. Usually these people get 'admired' after the fact. When they're livin' large, they're just leaders and get as much attention as our leaders do now. We've always fawned over celebrities in one way or another, and quite often our "heroes" were kinda dicks in the day. Thomas Edison is a great example, total prick who stole most of what he is credited with, but we're taught in school that he was pretty much Jesus v.2. Otherwise, thee people were important in their own circles, but often unknown outside of them.

Not really sure about the "worship" of Thatcher, I grew up in the 70's and 80's and was aware of who she was, and that was about it, we still were more concerned with the current hot model, or the latest band.

It hasn't really changed, we just have more bottom of the barrel people making it onto the national stage because of the interwebs, so it looks worse than it is.

Priapetic		2012-04-27 03:13:07 PM

With some exceptions, prior to the 70's, most professions maintained some degree of awareness and sense of responsibility for the nation's "moral fiber". The sense that we're all in this as a nation, forged on the anvil of WWII and tempered in the fire of 50's and 60's Cold War rhetoric, was still in our collective memory.

This high civic ideal and corresponding faith in our institutions demonstrated by our citizenry was of course immediately taken advantage of by unscrupulous elements in all walks of life, with the consequence that by the 1980's, our nation's compass shifted from desire for (and admiration of) collective achievement to reckless pursuit of individual engorgement.

Why does television suck? Why has "news" degenerated into mindless sensationalism? What caused the subprime crisis? Simple - there was money to be made for people with no sense of social responsibility willing to take advantage of others. Reality TV, sensationalist news, high fructose corn syrup, subprime mortgages, etc., etc., are the modern legal equivalents of crack. The formula to success in today's society is to take advantage of people's weakness, inability to defer instant gratification in favor of long term value, ignorance of harm, and basically all that is base in our natures, and take advantage of them to engorge yourself. The developers of this crap know how bad it is, but as long as someone's stupid enough to pay them for it, and as long as there is no effective regulation, it's just going to get worse. Hell, look how long it took just to get warnings on cigarettes.

I do agree that there's a bit of Harrison Bergeron going on, in that others' success only highlights one's own failures, but we've got whole industries dedicated to enabling and encouraging every slothful behavior we can identify. Our nation has become a nation of two year olds, and the societal structures we once relied on to provide parental guidance have been tied up and thrown in the closet by hordes of cupcake sellers.

WaytooTired		2012-04-27 03:13:18 PM

orclover: [www.politicker.com image 485x405]

If Americans paid attention to what is going on in their country today they would be hunting Republican voters in the streets and hanging them from trees. But instead they watch reality TV as they wait for death.

Stick a fork in it, this country is done.

/it would take a civil war to fix this country, and a mass extermination.
//and even that would only last a generation.

Well, I think you're rooting for the wrong side there. If you're really going to have a civil war based on Democrat vs Republican, I'd say I'd back the sides who believe in gun ownership and grow food. Not every farmer is a republican, but a *lot* of them are. Additionally, in order to conquer each side.. A few major cities and there are far fewer democrats, but you could bomb 1000s of square miles of farmland and still not kill enough farmers to end resistance. You can burn the crops, but then what do you eat? Are you going to grow food on top of the buildings? Think that through just a little before you start your war, k?

chuckufarlie		2012-04-27 03:14:40 PM

more of a documentary than a movie

i3.photobucket.com

Jekylman		2012-04-27 03:15:15 PM

StaleCoffee: CrispFlows: Avery614: CrispFlows: snocone: Remember kiddies, history is written right or wrong because a library survived.

Yeah - I'm not too happy about the library of Alexandria being burned down in three separate occasions, one of which 'to prevent the enemy getting anything'.

Oh, also f*ck the conquistadors for destroying priceless 'heathen' artifacts and architecture.

Don't forget the catholic church for printing over Archimedes work that would be re-imagined by Isaac Newton and Gottfried Wilhelm von Leibniz as calculus almost 2000 years later.

Link

Wha-

We're really good at screwing over knowledge, aren't we, eh?

The Archimedes Palimpsest isn't really in the same scale as the intentional, large-scale destruction of knowledge. It was a cost saving procedure, not a malicious act. It's the difference between burning a pile of Vonnegut books and writing a bbq sauce recipe over the cure for cancer because it was written in french and somehow found its way into a diner in west texas. If the contents were known they'd have no doubt been exploited, but as it was they just saw it as shiat to write on.

There's also the case of Bach's family allowing the papers some of his music was written on to be used as fishwrapping. Indifference is much more chilling than accident or even maliciousness.

Mikey1969		2012-04-27 03:16:11 PM

thisisyourbrainonFark: [www.mortondowneyjrhome.com image 600x450]

/hot like smoking cigarettes on TV

sharkbeagle: I would guess it something to do with precious twits like Slate taking themselves so seriously than the word no longer has any meaning at all.

A Slate article is where I came across Fark.

/consequences were never the same

OMG, Morton Downey Junior.... That was some funny shiat. Not good, but funny...

SkunkWerks		2012-04-27 03:16:30 PM

WaytooTired: Think that through just a little before you start your war, k?

Or maybe, oh I dunno, NOT start a war based on party lines, cause that would be pretty dumb.

ph0rk		2012-04-27 03:19:26 PM

TV's Vinnie: No. The media has determined itself to be the one who decides what we "want". You don't actually think that Michael Jackson got all those awards because everyone actually loved him, did you?

Well, you just rock on with your naive self then.

Markets are the result of an interchange between providers and audiences. This isn'y my idea, and many have written about it for decades. You could try to correct your ignorance, or you could just proceed loudly on your way.

I wonder which you'll pick.

This text is now purple		2012-04-27 03:20:24 PM

CrispFlows: Oh, also f*ck the conquistidors for destroying priceless 'heathen' artifacts and architecture.

Those conquistadors also created what became cultural anthropology. The Spanish have better notes about what the Aztecs were than the Aztecs do.

MaliFinn		2012-04-27 03:21:44 PM

Everyone in this thread is clever and loveable. The media has taught us to look out for the differences between each other and to resent and fear them, when in most cases they are the result of choices that we or our parents could have made under similar circumstances.

We have far more in common with each other than we differ, yet we choose to perpetuate conflict because media encourages it. Stop falling for their shiat and just enjoy the good company of other farkers, and watch while the world gets brighter.

Jekylman		2012-04-27 03:21:55 PM

https://www.google.com/The Jami Turman Fan Club: Oh yes, society was MUCH better when guys like Billy the Kid and Al Capone were seen as heroes.

At least Kardashian doesn't kill people.

Just defends those who do.

UNAUTHORIZED FINGER		2012-04-27 03:24:04 PM

bhcompy: UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: gameshowhost: Some assholes started glorifying Ronald Reagan, is what happened.

/yeah i was one of them
//but i was cured by education, years ago
///the remaining assholes have no excuse

I was this close to clicking the "Smart" button, then I remembered that I was NEVER fooled by Ronald Reagan. Of course, having my political education enhanced by by my grandfather's thoughts (he was a cousin of Senator William Fulbright) helped. My grandfather hated only three people ever born. Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan, and Barbara Walters. So of course, every morning we got up bright and early, so he could watch the Today Show so he could cuss at her, and start the day happy.

I never get this. The executive position is one that plays well for a charismatic leader. Reagan was definitely that, and he led the country through a tough time and we left his tenure in the right direction. He was also smart enough to know that he was pretty dumb and he should surround himself with smart people. He made some bad choices with that, but he definitely acknowledged he wasn't all knowing.

Part of my problem with Reagan was because he reminded me of Eddie Haskell. His image of America's "Best Friend Forever" was belied by his cynical machinations that transferred great wealth to his cronies.

Also, I believe that he made a secret deal with the Iranians to not release the hostages until his inauguration. Also, I believe he knew all about Iran/Contra. Plus he was a traitor to his previous party. Plus he was a rat-fink who testified against his friends and co-workers during the McCarthy era.

Plus he destroyed the air-traffic controllers union. Plus he gave rise to the Bush Dynasty. Plus although his popular image was of Gary Cooper in High Noon, when the Marine barracks (and 241 Marines, Navy and Army personnel were killed) in Beirut Lebanon were bombed, he ran up the yellow flag, and pulled our troops out with no retaliation.

Plus, I believe his assassination attempt was staged to improve his sagging approval polls ("Mommy, I forgot to duck" my ass). Plus his second wife, Nancy was only the first-lady because she gave the best blow-jobs in Hollywood. He was a liar who claimed to Yitzhak Shamir that he helped liberate Auschwitz although he never left the U.S. during WWII.

He was the worst governor that California ever had, and created the same problems as president that he had created as governor. In typical Republican style, he preached the gospel of lower taxes and smaller government, but both grew considerably during his eight years as president. His policies also contributed to the severity of the Savings and Loan debacle.

He applied pressure to NASA to launch the space shuttle Challenger despite weather conditions that forbade launching, so he could have a glorious occasion to leech upon during his State of the Union address that evening. Cancer caught Reagan in 1987, but I don't hold that against him, Cancer deserved it.

He was senile in office, but opted to remain in charge despite impaired judgment. He used astrologists and other charlatans to assist him in making decisions that changed the world. He was disingenuous, dishonest, and too dumb to be president, but not smart enough to care. He was a shell of a human who lacked qualities that make a healthy normal ordinary man, let alone someone who held the free world in his ethically crippled hands.

As Hunter S. Thompson once said about Richard Nixon, if there were any justice in the world, right now he would be cruising past Easter Island in the belly of a hammerhead shark.

Other than that, he was a great president.

/Jane Wyman was once asked why she divorced Reagan. She replied, "He was so boring!"

the stugots		2012-04-27 03:25:37 PM

thelordofcheese: False memory syndrome, distorted nostalgia and altered history records.

Don't forget K-Tel Records. Remember them'uns?

SkunkWerks		2012-04-27 03:26:03 PM

This text is now purple: Those conquistadors also created what became cultural anthropology.

No. Anymore than the Roman Catholic Church "created" Genealogy 'cause monks were the only people writing things down through the Dark Ages.

This text is now purple: The Spanish have better notes about what the Aztecs were than the Aztecs do.

Same is true of any culture that didn't use a written language versus any culture that did.

Incidentally it also makes it easier for you to write the history- victor or not.

Englebert Slaptyback		2012-04-27 03:26:15 PM

iheartscotch

I've said it before and I'll say it again; panem et circenses. All this country cares about is panem et circenses. Bread and Games. Except, instead of gladiators fighting to death; the games are the constant stream of information we are bombarded with every day. We are pacified with 24 hour news, sports ect. And that is unlikely to change any time soon.

/ a distracted, well feed populous is a happy populous

"Populous" is an adjective. "Populace" is a noun.

Grammar and punctuation will be covered later.

Much later.

ph0rk		2012-04-27 03:27:33 PM

SkunkWerks: This text is now purple: Those conquistadors also created what became cultural anthropology.

No. Anymore than the Roman Catholic Church "created" Genealogy 'cause monks were the only people writing things down through the Dark Ages.

This text is now purple: The Spanish have better notes about what the Aztecs were than the Aztecs do.

Same is true of any culture that didn't use a written language versus any culture that did.

Incidentally it also makes it easier for you to write the history- victor or not.

cdn1.hark.com

People should know when they're conquered.

Mikey1969		2012-04-27 03:28:17 PM

dennysgod: [blogs.mcall.com image 300x224]

Ruined TV and pop-culture forever. After this show talent was no longer a requirement to get "famous".

Yep, a lot of people forget that that was the REAL beginning of 'Reality TV'.

Interceptor1		2012-04-27 03:29:06 PM

I only come here for the pictures.

SkunkWerks		2012-04-27 03:29:34 PM

ph0rk: People should know when they're conquered.

The Romans were pretty good at making sure that happened. Taught the Catholic Church everything it knows.

optional		2012-04-27 03:30:32 PM

I always get a laugh from these articles that whine about how much better things were in the old days. The 19th and early 20th centuries were far cruder and more violent times than today. Things like dogfighting were considered acceptable entertainment for kids.

Sure Edison (a noted jerk) was celebrated. Today, it's Steve Jobs (also a noted jerk). Most of the poorly behaving socialites followed in those days have been forgotten, hence the perception that the average American of 1910 was high-minded.

These pieces are always printed out to make a certain kind of clueless jackass feel all sad and noble for being the sole preserver of culture in what they see as an era of widespread stupidity. In reality, people have always been fairly stupid, but at least now we've made some progress on things like civil rights and mass education.

Nostalgia is a disease.

syberpud		2012-04-27 03:33:03 PM

SkunkWerks: ph0rk: People should know when they're conquered.

The Romans were pretty good at making sure that happened. Taught the Catholic Church everything it knows.

Mainly because they were the same people.

CthulhuCalling		2012-04-27 03:33:39 PM

Crewmannumber6: I like the cut of your jib, good sir.

Fark that, that's a Curly Joe DeRita pic. Curly Howard or nothing at all, you godless barbarian!

ArtosRC		2012-04-27 03:35:07 PM

The Southern Strategy is what happened.

bhcompy		2012-04-27 03:36:14 PM

UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: bhcompy: UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: gameshowhost: Some assholes started glorifying Ronald Reagan, is what happened.

/yeah i was one of them
//but i was cured by education, years ago
///the remaining assholes have no excuse

I was this close to clicking the "Smart" button, then I remembered that I was NEVER fooled by Ronald Reagan. Of course, having my political education enhanced by by my grandfather's thoughts (he was a cousin of Senator William Fulbright) helped. My grandfather hated only three people ever born. Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan, and Barbara Walters. So of course, every morning we got up bright and early, so he could watch the Today Show so he could cuss at her, and start the day happy.

I never get this. The executive position is one that plays well for a charismatic leader. Reagan was definitely that, and he led the country through a tough time and we left his tenure in the right direction. He was also smart enough to know that he was pretty dumb and he should surround himself with smart people. He made some bad choices with that, but he definitely acknowledged he wasn't all knowing.

Part of my problem with Reagan was because he reminded me of Eddie Haskell. His image of America's "Best Friend Forever" was belied by his cynical machinations that transferred great wealth to his cronies.

Also, I believe that he made a secret deal with the Iranians to not release the hostages until his inauguration. Also, I believe he knew all about Iran/Contra. Plus he was a traitor to his previous party. Plus he was a rat-fink who testified against his friends and co-workers during the McCarthy era.

Plus he destroyed the air-traffic controllers union. Plus he gave rise to the Bush Dynasty. Plus although his popular image was of Gary Cooper in High Noon, when the Marine barracks (and 241 Marines, Navy and Army personnel were killed) in Beirut Lebanon were bombed, he ran up the yellow flag, and pulled our troops out with no retaliation.

Plus, I believe his assassina ...

And despite all of that, the country was on the right trajectory after he was done, with the stagflation of the early years blown away and the market way up from where it was when he started. Yep, he made bad choices, some of them morally and/or ethically, but those are decisions every president makes. Plenty of people feel Truman mad a bad choice to drop the bomb, calling it cold blooded murder.

As far as Nixon and Thompson, first, fark Thompson, he couldn't even think straight. Second, Nixon was a good president who made a stupid decision domestically.

And the "Bush Dynasty" as you called it was one good president and one bad one. Reagan has nothing to apologize for giving rise to George Bush. Yea, Jr was bad, but Reagan didn't put him in office(or anywhere near it) so I'm not going to blame him for that.

TheShavingofOccam123		2012-04-27 03:37:06 PM

Braindeath: willyfreddy: Who are their fans? Women. In almost every instance, it's women that support them. Question answered.

Uh huh. You forgot gay men.

Also: Hi, I'm Johnny Knoxville and this is Jackass.

Now I got that stupid music jammed in my head.

/at least I'm not Bam sitting 30 feet in the air with something else jammed somewhere else
/Booonnnnggg....ziiiiiiiinnnngg....owwwwwwwww

Macular Degenerate		2012-04-27 03:37:44 PM

The past generations lived in times of transformative technological and societal change. The changes that were happening were truly revolutionary. The fact that we went from driving horses to driving cars and airplanes in a single generation, and to space in a second generation is pretty huge.

Today we live in a time of incremental changes when the individual changes themselves don't mean much. The fact that a new type of computer comes out every year and gets smaller, thinner, and easier to use is pretty interesting but these are not huge transformational changes like the invention of the computer itself.

www.benespen.com

Our society's pace of discovery leveled off and has actually started to decline, so it's no shocker that we need to find some other gods to replace science and technology heroes. I'm just disappointed that we've replaced great heroes with the likes of the Paris Hilton variety.

snocone		2012-04-27 03:39:39 PM

farkeruk: Yeah, because no-one ever wrote about Liz Taylor, Zsa Zsa Gabor, Joan Collins or Jackie Kennedy.

I lived in the 80s and it's simply nostalgia to assume that people revered scientists or technologists back then any more than they do today.

Hey!
You watch watch you say about Mr. Wizard.

give me doughnuts		2012-04-27 03:40:02 PM

Psycoholic_Slag: Fissile: StaleCoffee: If you want to be famous fast, be loud and stupid.

If you want to be famous for a long time, make a lasting, major contribution to the world.

If you want to be famous forever, enforce an ideology by killing several million people.

"Bread and circuses" isn't a new concept, though.

=============

There is more to it than that. Both Mao and Stalin piled up the bodies higher than Hitler, but Hitler is the guy everybody knows today. If you want to go by percentages, Pol Pot offed half the population of Cambodia....a world record, but whho knows Pol Pot today?

Pol Pot had a bad PR firm.

In the '40s a very large percentage of the American population was only one or two generations way from "the Old Country" back in Europe. Who the hell is from Cambodia?

As with real estate, so with genocide: location, location, location.

nelsonal		2012-04-27 03:40:19 PM

SkunkWerks: ph0rk: People should know when they're conquered.

The Romans were pretty good at making sure that happened. Taught the Catholic Church everything it knows.

Um, they had to wall off the Scots.

snocone		2012-04-27 03:41:44 PM

Fark Filters.

*"what"

ph0rk		2012-04-27 03:42:12 PM

nelsonal: SkunkWerks: ph0rk: People should know when they're conquered.

The Romans were pretty good at making sure that happened. Taught the Catholic Church everything it knows.

Um, they had to wall off the Scots.

Who, as it happened came up with Uniformitarianism, which lead to Darwinian evolution and pissed off a shiat-ton of Christians.

So, I'm going with Scots won, on that one.

wellreadneck		2012-04-27 03:44:33 PM

ArtosRC: The Southern Strategy is what happened.

Yep, 'cause if there's anyone glorifying Kardashians and Biebers, it's the NASCAR crowd. Both political persuasions have their share of vapid and shallow people. There's an entire thread glorifying the President's penis in the politics tab . I didn't see many rednecks in there.

KatjaMouse		2012-04-27 03:45:19 PM

Thunderpipes		2012-04-27 03:50:21 PM

bhcompy		2012-04-27 03:50:49 PM

give me doughnuts: In the '40s a very large percentage of the American population was only one or two generations way from "the Old Country" back in Europe. Who the hell is from Cambodia?

As with real estate, so with genocide: location, location, location.

Southern California is full of Cambodians. Little Phnom Penh is home to a great many Cambodians who claimed asylum because of Pol Pot

hitlersbrain		2012-04-27 03:51:03 PM

In all fairness, there were plenty of 'boobs' around at those times that people talked about. Their popularity is just fleeting.

"Daddy, whose was Madonna?"

TV's Vinnie		2012-04-27 04:01:23 PM

ph0rk: TV's Vinnie: No. The media has determined itself to be the one who decides what we "want". You don't actually think that Michael Jackson got all those awards because everyone actually loved him, did you?

Well, you just rock on with your naive self then.

Markets are the result of an interchange between providers and audiences. This isn'y my idea, and many have written about it for decades. You could try to correct your ignorance, or you could just proceed loudly on your way.

I wonder which you'll pick.

LOL! You actually do believe that the media has a clue as to what the masses want, don't you?

screenerspot.com

Mawson of the Antarctic		2012-04-27 04:03:44 PM

We've always been a bunch of lever-pressing lab mice, it's just now that it's even easier to press the lever and soon enough, it'll press itself.

mtbhucker		2012-04-27 04:05:50 PM

TheShavingofOccam123:

Also: Hi, I'm Johnny Knoxville and this is Jackass.

Now I got that stupid music jammed in my head.

Minutemen never made stupid music. Mike Watt is a god among mere mortals.

/RIP D. Boon

StaleCoffee		2012-04-27 04:09:32 PM

Jekylman: There's also the case of Bach's family allowing the papers some of his music was written on to be used as fishwrapping. Indifference is much more chilling than accident or even maliciousness.

Not nearly so. Malicious destruction of knowledge, like the Nazi book burnings, is a far cry from that level of destruction. They didn't wrap fish in it because they hated the music or loathed its influence over the centuries, they wrapped fish in it because it wasn't 300 years later when people look back on his works as masterpieces and diligently attempt to preserve them.

It was a dickhead thing to do but if I print out the lyrics to 99 Undeads But A Lich Ain't One and someone uses it to wrap beef, the people of 2172, a civilization that has based its musical foundation upon my parodied lyric and Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure, will undoubtedly not have the same view as more contemporary critics.

He certainly was popular during his time but indifference touches everything, including your own towards both Bach's unknown contemporaries and those modern composers whose works may be deemed so much the lesser they as well are used to transport seafood.

There is a lot of information out there to sift through. Look at Mendel and how the value of what he did shifted dramatically later on.

cretinbob		2012-04-27 04:16:45 PM

Geotpf		2012-04-27 04:21:30 PM

dennysgod: [blogs.mcall.com image 300x224]

Ruined TV and pop-culture forever. After this show talent was no longer a requirement to get "famous".

Like it ever was.

img2.timeinc.net

Coming on a Bicycle		2012-04-27 04:27:41 PM

What happened was pervasive cultural relativism. And one of the areas it supposedly applied was to the working class.

Wook		2012-04-27 04:32:09 PM

gameshowhost: Some assholes started glorifying Ronald Reagan, is what happened.

/yeah i was one of them
//but i was cured by education, years ago
///the remaining assholes have no excuse

A lot of great things happened under his watch. Obama inherited a mess but has done an amazing job at making it much worse.

I can't wait till Nov. I will troll and troll and savor the impending Lib butt hurt.

otto the bull		2012-04-27 04:35:51 PM

I blame it on the "Say No To Drugs" campaign.

Cool Hand Luke		2012-04-27 04:44:09 PM

Seeing how Edison was a highly unethical businessman and didnt' invent much as he outright stole , Margret Thatcher was responsible for doubling the UK population living in poverty, Marie Curie wasn't much for forethought in being safe while working with radioactive products, and Teddy Roosevelt was everything fat Americans are criticized for today, I'd say we've pretty much kept the bar low as to how we put on a pedestal these days. At least today's society no longer pretends we're lofty in selecting our heroes.

UtileDysfunktion		2012-04-27 04:44:14 PM

Geotpf: dennysgod: [blogs.mcall.com image 300x224]

Ruined TV and pop-culture forever. After this show talent was no longer a requirement to get "famous".
Like it ever was.

www.nndb.com

Hey now... Charo actually plays a mean Spanish guitar,

Geotpf		2012-04-27 04:45:02 PM

Wook: gameshowhost: Some assholes started glorifying Ronald Reagan, is what happened.

/yeah i was one of them
//but i was cured by education, years ago
///the remaining assholes have no excuse

A lot of great things happened under his watch. Obama inherited a mess but has done an amazing job at making it much worse.

I can't wait till Nov. I will troll and troll and savor the impending Lib butt hurt.

I currently estimate the chances of R-Money beating Obama at approximately 1%. You can't beat somebody with nobody, and R-Money is as close to nobody as you can get.

Now, if you guys nominated Huntsman or Huckabee, you'd have a chance. I agree Obama is not unbeatable. But R-Money? I don't think so. Remember, ties go to the incumbent.

This election is very similiar to the one in 2004, but with the parties switched. Running on "Obama sucks" with a lousy candidate will work as well for R-Money as running on "Bush sucks" with a lousy candidate did for Kerry.

Admittedly, R-Money will do better than Newt or Frothy or RON PAUL would have. But that's not saying much-losing by five to ten points (as opposed to ten to twenty) is still losing.

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