Call us crazy, but in the US, at the $16.57 median hourly wage being able to get work done during your half-hour commute would be worth about $4,140 a year, which would make an extra $3,000 for autonomous driving a steal.

Y'all are crazy. I would use that time as a time to relax before walking in to work. Work does not start when I leave home, it starts when I walk in to work. It similarly stops as soon as I walk out the door. Work is where one does work, not at places that aren't home.

I do like the technology, but it seems to me that it can easily be compromised. I mean, this seems like the future to remove the human factor. But just like removing pilots from a cockpit, we have learned that computers cannot improvise in many situations. I can see that in 20 years the technology can be improved and more practical but sadly I think 3K a year is better spent on beer.

Self driving cars? I think we've all seen how that goes. Link

How many drivers would take an extra fifteen minutes on the phone in order to pay just $2,550 to never again be at fault for a car accident?

Tobin_Lam: Y'all are crazy. I would use that time as a time to relax before walking in to work. Work does not start when I leave home, it starts when I walk in to work. It similarly stops as soon as I walk out the door. Work is where one does work, not at places that aren't home.

So ignore the work part and think more of it as "spend my commute doing something other than having to watch the road".

Read, watch something on your computer/ipad, play games, chat with friends/family, etc...

If you have anything longer than about a 15 min. commute, then unless you love actually driving (in rush hour traffic) $3,000 is a steal to get to use that time for something else.

I expect self-driving to start first in controlled, predictable places like interstates and highways. Places where roads can be reasonably expected to be in (somewhat) good condition, well marked, etc. It'll be a long time before a car can self-drive on every crappy rural road with poor markings, old markings showing through, unexpected turnoffs, etc etc.

Of course, interstates/etc is probably where it'd be most useful, so that's not a complete loss by any means.

/Enjoys driving, but wouldn't mind the option to have a little extra naptime

ZAZ: How many drivers would go Dave Bowman on the computer after they learned their self-driving vehicle strictly obeyed all traffic laws?

If I wasn't at the wheel, why would I care?
My only concern is that the car can get me from home to work safely.

To get in an extra hour a day of farking, playing games, eating, watching movies or otherwise doing all the things a driver shouldn't do, I would sure as hell pay an extra $3000.
Seems like a steal of a deal to me.

/I do love to drive, but commuting is not enjoyable driving.

Penoatle: I do like the technology, but it seems to me that it can easily be compromised. I mean, this seems like the future to remove the human factor. But just like removing pilots from a cockpit, we have learned that computers cannot improvise in many situations. I can see that in 20 years the technology can be improved and more practical but sadly I think 3K a year is better spent on beer.

Ok, sure, but most people's daily commute to work, especially outside of busy urban centers full of wacky drivers and pedestrians, can be done half asleep. The number of people that need that human improvisation every time they drive are probably the minority.

Even on 8 hour road trips, 7 hours of it could be done by a robot, if you're willing to drive the speed limit.

You can have my 6 speed manual when you pry it from the hands of my charred, smoking corpse.

I would absolutely pay $3000 more for an auto drive feature. The only problem is that when it becomes available, it will cost about 10X that.

Bring it, bring it, bring it!

If this means I can have a few beers at a restaurant instead of abstaining because I am driving, I'm all for it.

//knows that at first, until well proven, the 'driver' will need to be sober.

Yeah I'm drunk! The fark you gonna do about it, pig?

Absolutely. Over the lifetime of a modern car, that's nearly nothing on a per year basis. Road trips would be a breeze.

Think about it--it's all the good things about being on a bus and none of the bad. Plus, never worry about a DUI, yours or theirs. "Computer, drive me hooooome."

ZAZ: How many drivers would go Dave Bowman on the computer after they learned their self-driving vehicle strictly obeyed all traffic laws? I'm sorry, Dave, there is a fire truck in traffic 300 feet ahead and it is illegal to approach more closely.

That would be way less frustrating if I were playing video games or watching porn.

palelizard: Think about it--it's all the good things about being on a bus and none of the bad. Plus, never worry about a DUI, yours or theirs. "Computer, drive me hooooome."

I don't know, but I suspect that is still a while away. There will still need to be a sober driver ready to take the wheel when needed.

IMO there's one HUGE issue for why this will fail in it's current conception, and that is the only way insurance companies are going to insure this is if they can have access to your car's driving log.

Among many things, Google's system knows:
a) How often you speed.
b) The fastest speed you've gotten your car up to.
c) How often the car doesn't come to a complete stop at a stop sign.
d) How aggressively you drive.
e) Each time you bump a car in the parking lot, but no physical damage results.

All of that and much more would be used to deny claims and raise premiums.

No thanks.

digistil: IMO there's one HUGE issue for why this will fail in it's current conception, and that is the only way insurance companies are going to insure this is if they can have access to your car's driving log.

Among many things, Google's system knows:
a) How often you speed.
b) The fastest speed you've gotten your car up to.
c) How often the car doesn't come to a complete stop at a stop sign.
d) How aggressively you drive.
e) Each time you bump a car in the parking lot, but no physical damage results.

All of that and much more would be used to deny claims and raise premiums.

No thanks.

That is starting already, but on a voluntary basis. It will not be long before all but the most fly-by-night, never pay companies will be demanding you hook up their computer to your OBD2 ports.

ZAZ: way south

If sitting in a moving car is the same as sitting in the chair you'll drop into for the rest of the evening as soon as you get home, you don't care. It's not the same to me. A self-driving car would take 30% longer to get me home, and it would have to tell me "rotary ahead -- assume manual control" to do that well. Waiting for a gap in rotary traffic that is satisfactory to corporate lawyers could add ten more minutes.

It depends on how reliable the system is.
If the car records fewer accidents in automatic mode, its entirely possible those same lawyers will be lobbying the engineers to remove your steering wheel.

If EVERYONE followed the rules of the road there would be no accidents or drivers driving jockeying for position like jackasses in rush hour. Traffic would move more efficiently, saving time.
A long view version could see them removing stoplights and signs since automated drivers can just time themselves to pass through an intersection unimpeded.

/Think of it as a road going train where everyone has a personal car and doorstep to doorstep service.
/30% longer to read your morning paper is hardly a downside.

ZAZ: way south

If sitting in a moving car is the same as sitting in the chair you'll drop into for the rest of the evening as soon as you get home, you don't care. It's not the same to me. A self-driving car would take 30% longer to get me home, and it would have to tell me "rotary ahead -- assume manual control" to do that well. Waiting for a gap in rotary traffic that is satisfactory to corporate lawyers could add ten more minutes.

Personally I enjoy driving. What I don't enjoy is driving in traffic.

There was article a while back about smart systems, and the idea is that more automated cars you have on the road, the faster everyone can go. One of the large problems with traffic is the constant varying of speed due to people being poor drivers. By this I mean operations to maintain set speeds and make rational decisions of when to merge, exit and what not. I don't mean the lightning reflex abiltiy to be able to zip in that space that is just barely enough for your car and then slamming on the brakes.

If this would provide a way of breaking the tedium of traffic driving, I'm all for it.

fark that. I wouldn't own a car. You simple call up a nearby Zap car. It comes TO you and picks you up. You then exit at your location, it leaves and parks itself. fark OWNING a car. Blah

digistil: IMO there's one HUGE issue for why this will fail in it's current conception, and that is the only way insurance companies are going to insure this is if they can have access to your car's driving log.

Among many things, Google's system knows:
a) How often you speed.
b) The fastest speed you've gotten your car up to.
c) How often the car doesn't come to a complete stop at a stop sign.
d) How aggressively you drive.
e) Each time you bump a car in the parking lot, but no physical damage results.

All of that and much more would be used to deny claims and raise premiums.

No thanks.

If the computer's driving the car, none of that matters at all.

MindStalker: fark that. I wouldn't own a car. You simple call up a nearby Zap car. It comes TO you and picks you up. You then exit at your location, it leaves and parks itself. fark OWNING a car. Blah

Why the hell would it park? It's got other people to pick up. Just think of all the space in the city centers this would free up! Most parking garages that get built these days anticipate future conversion.

grinding_journalist: You can have my 6 speed manual when you pry it from the hands of my charred, smoking corpse.

Perhaps it'd be prudent to point out that we already have self-driving cars fully capable of going it alone in traffic.

That article is from 2010... I don't know what the specific mileage number is now, but I do know that Google's car has made several long road trips fully autonomously, with no human intervention whatsoever.

threadjackistan: MindStalker: fark that. I wouldn't own a car. You simple call up a nearby Zap car. It comes TO you and picks you up. You then exit at your location, it leaves and parks itself. fark OWNING a car. Blah

Why the hell would it park? It's got other people to pick up. Just think of all the space in the city centers this would free up! Most parking garages that get built these days anticipate future conversion.

I talked to one guy who is absolutely convinced that the first true application of autonomous vehicles for the general public will be an automatic valet system. You pull up to a store, get out and tell the car to go park. When you're at the end of the checkout line you radio back to your car and it's pulling up when you walk out the store.

He says the biggest challenge with this is not having other people freak out when they see a driverless car idling through a parking lot.

That would pay for itself in less than 5 years.

Tobin_Lam: Call us crazy, but in the US, at the $16.57 median hourly wage being able to get work done during your half-hour commute would be worth about $4,140 a year, which would make an extra $3,000 for autonomous driving a steal.

Y'all are crazy. I would use that time as a time to relax before walking in to work. Work does not start when I leave home, it starts when I walk in to work. It similarly stops as soon as I walk out the door. Work is where one does work, not at places that aren't home.

Done in one.
Thank you.

ZAZ: How many drivers would go Dave Bowman on the computer after they learned their self-driving vehicle strictly obeyed all traffic laws? I'm sorry, Dave, there is a fire truck in traffic 300 feet ahead and it is illegal to approach more closely.

As someone regularly driving the burbs of Boston, if all cars were self driving I'd approve. No more getting cut off or the shiatbox going 90 down the breakdown lane or ignoring the "left turn only" sign.

jonny_q: palelizard: Think about it--it's all the good things about being on a bus and none of the bad. Plus, never worry about a DUI, yours or theirs. "Computer, drive me hooooome."

I don't know, but I suspect that is still a while away. There will still need to be a sober driver ready to take the wheel when needed.

Sure, but that's not what the survey was about. It said "fully-autonomous self-driving technology".

threadjackistan: MindStalker: fark that. I wouldn't own a car. You simple call up a nearby Zap car. It comes TO you and picks you up. You then exit at your location, it leaves and parks itself. fark OWNING a car. Blah

Why the hell would it park? It's got other people to pick up. Just think of all the space in the city centers this would free up! Most parking garages that get built these days anticipate future conversion.

Cause otherwise the Taxi companies would fight over it and force it to be registered as a Taxi service instead of a car rental service. Sure, eventually we will rid ourselves of such bullshiat, but I'm being realistic here.

//Did you just cry?

ZAZ: These self-driving cars will leave 2-3 second gaps and refuse to enter the highway unless there is a 4 second gap in the right lane to merge into. Or they will once corporate lawyers have their way. The road system can't handle courtesy and obedience.

Uncontrolled intersections will be fun to watch because custom and law are different.

Actually, not a problem. As I said above, Google has a few test vehicles that have done all of this and more. They're also orders of magnitude better at dealing with unpredictable people- i.e. people running into the street, slamming on the breaks, other people breaking the law.

Also, Google is a company that has localized their services in hundreds of real languages from all across the world, including a few totally fictional languages. What makes you think it'll be so much harder to produce localized autonomous driving agents?

Several times a day I have to use my brain to judge an intersection or get around a motherfarker doing 50mph in a 60mph zone because they've turned on their cellphone and turned off their brain.

Driving long distances on interstates is easy, but where I'd like to engage an autopilot would result in frequent fender benders. Because I'm a cynical bastard of a driver. I ALWAYS think the worse of other drivers. They are always about to pull out in front of me or meander across the lane. That cynicism lends to my defensive driving which is the first stage of offensive driving.

Tobin_Lam: Call us crazy, but in the US, at the $16.57 median hourly wage being able to get work done during your half-hour commute would be worth about $4,140 a year, which would make an extra $3,000 for autonomous driving a steal.

Y'all are crazy. I would use that time as a time to relax before walking in to work. Work does not start when I leave home, it starts when I walk in to work. It similarly stops as soon as I walk out the door. Work is where one does work, not at places that aren't home.

Driving isn't relaxing for me. I'd much rather take a nap, have something to eat, play around on the Internet, read a book, watch a movie, etc.

ZAZ: How many drivers would go Dave Bowman on the computer after they learned their self-driving vehicle strictly obeyed all traffic laws? I'm sorry, Dave, there is a fire truck in traffic 300 feet ahead and it is illegal to approach more closely.

I'd be too busy sleeping.

MindStalker: threadjackistan: MindStalker: fark that. I wouldn't own a car. You simple call up a nearby Zap car. It comes TO you and picks you up. You then exit at your location, it leaves and parks itself. fark OWNING a car. Blah

Why the hell would it park? It's got other people to pick up. Just think of all the space in the city centers this would free up! Most parking garages that get built these days anticipate future conversion.

Cause otherwise the Taxi companies would fight over it and force it to be registered as a Taxi service instead of a car rental service. Sure, eventually we will rid ourselves of such bullshiat, but I'm being realistic here.

//Did you just cry?

Just a little.

Tobin_Lam: Call us crazy, but in the US, at the $16.57 median hourly wage being able to get work done during your half-hour commute would be worth about $4,140 a year, which would make an extra $3,000 for autonomous driving a steal.

Y'all are crazy. I would use that time as a time to relax before walking in to work. Work does not start when I leave home, it starts when I walk in to work. It similarly stops as soon as I walk out the door. Work is where one does work, not at places that aren't home.

Driving in traffic is WORSE than work. You crazy, man. I mean, traffic is relaxing to you? You burning a fattie and knocking back a brew or two on the way or something?

Me! Me! I totally would. That would be a HUGE win, very valuable to my IT contractor role.

Also, "Work does not start when I leave home," ????

Does not compute. Esp if you make more than minimum wage.

Yeah it's called a train.

Fubini: Google's car has made several long road trips fully autonomously, with no human intervention whatsoever.

I'm more interested in it knowing how well it will merge into heavy traffic and other commuting awfulness. Can you ask it to take alternate routes? How much warning does it need?

/Austin, TX, FTW
//except in traffic. Yuck.

meanmutton: Tobin_Lam: Call us crazy, but in the US, at the $16.57 median hourly wage being able to get work done during your half-hour commute would be worth about $4,140 a year, which would make an extra $3,000 for autonomous driving a steal.

Y'all are crazy. I would use that time as a time to relax before walking in to work. Work does not start when I leave home, it starts when I walk in to work. It similarly stops as soon as I walk out the door. Work is where one does work, not at places that aren't home.

Driving isn't relaxing for me. I'd much rather take a nap, have something to eat, play around on the Internet, read a book, watch a movie, etc.
Dubya's_Coke_Dealer: Tobin_Lam:
Driving in traffic is WORSE than work. You crazy, man. I mean, traffic is relaxing to you? You burning a fattie and knocking back a brew or two on the way or something?


I pretty sure he means he'd rather use the time in the self driving car to relax, unlike what the article suggested as time that could be used to work.

luyseyal: I'm more interested in it knowing how well it will merge into heavy traffic and other commuting awfulness. Can you ask it to take alternate routes? How much warning does it need?

I know this can be a lot to ask of FARK in general, but this is an academic presentation by one of the guys who is leading the field in autonomous vehicles. Includes video of driving in heavy traffic and other things.

The first speaker is Sebastian Thrun, sorry his accent is a little hard to get with the echo, the second is Chris Urmson. They do a great job of giving an overview of the technology and explaining why their system is so much better than the previous approaches.