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(Huffington Post)   Democracy Inaction: Michigan elections board rejects recall petition signed by over 200,000 people because the font size on the petition forms was slightly too small   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 342
    More: Asinine, emergency managers, Michigan, boards of elections, Strict constructionism, petitions, referendums  
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5699 clicks; posted to Politics » on 27 Apr 2012 at 10:21 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-27 11:21:18 AM  

EWreckedSean: Dusk-You-n-Me: This is nothing. Michigan has completely thrown out democracy. Link

It's a crap way to throw out the petition to be sure. But it's a crap petition to begin with. Basically it allows the state to break collective bargaining agreements in school districts that are bankrupt, so the unions are fighting it tooth and nail.


You don't think the citizens of Michigan should be able to register their dissatisfaction with a law passed by their legislature, using the proper method as prescribed by law?
 
2012-04-27 11:21:23 AM  

meat0918: Aar1012: I'm betting the sale of pitchforks and torches will be increasing m in Michigan

Nah, but the makings of Molotovs and sales of AK-47s.

Seriously GOP. FARK YOU.

This is just another example.

Then you have Arizona.

Florida's stupid drug testing law.

All the anti-women's health rights laws and actions.

And something that is actually affecting me directly, the Republican that is running for Oregon's Congressional District 4 convinced his son to change party affiliations from R to D right before the primary deadline and now his son is running as a Democrat. They even share a campaign manager and funding sources.

Another board member, Julie Matuzak, a Democrat, works for one of the unions participating in the petition drive, the News also reports.



Uh, you might want to take a look at the Czar of Illinois, Mike Madigan and the shenanigans he has pulled in elections. Or the fact that they kept "john Stroger" "alive" so his son could take his place.

Why do Democrats hate democracy so badly that they seek to subvert it at every turn?
 
2012-04-27 11:22:52 AM  

PlatinumDragon: What fact - that both parties that have effective capture of the entire American political system have partisans and operatives making decisions under clear conflicts of interest? That detracts from my original point... how?


You want to try that in English?
 
2012-04-27 11:26:24 AM  

EWreckedSean: It's a crap way to throw out the petition to be sure. But it's a crap petition to begin with. Basically it allows the state to break collective bargaining agreements in school districts that are bankrupt, so the unions are fighting it tooth and nail.


WTF are you talking about?
 
2012-04-27 11:28:28 AM  

halfof33: PlatinumDragon: What fact - that both parties that have effective capture of the entire American political system have partisans and operatives making decisions under clear conflicts of interest? That detracts from my original point... how?

You want to try that in English?


Faking an inability to comprehend a statement is pretty sad, but thanks for giving up any attempt at trying to argue a point and switching to grammar Nazism. It makes my day easier.

*plonk*
 
2012-04-27 11:29:29 AM  

halfof33: meat0918: Aar1012: I'm betting the sale of pitchforks and torches will be increasing m in Michigan

Nah, but the makings of Molotovs and sales of AK-47s.

Seriously GOP. FARK YOU.

This is just another example.

Then you have Arizona.

Florida's stupid drug testing law.

All the anti-women's health rights laws and actions.

And something that is actually affecting me directly, the Republican that is running for Oregon's Congressional District 4 convinced his son to change party affiliations from R to D right before the primary deadline and now his son is running as a Democrat. They even share a campaign manager and funding sources.

Another board member, Julie Matuzak, a Democrat, works for one of the unions participating in the petition drive, the News also reports.



Uh, you might want to take a look at the Czar of Illinois, Mike Madigan and the shenanigans he has pulled in elections. Or the fact that they kept "john Stroger" "alive" so his son could take his place.

Why do Democrats hate democracy so badly that they seek to subvert it at every turn?


I give up, what is undemocratic about either of these? Just give me one example.
 
2012-04-27 11:30:46 AM  

mrmyxolodian: I doubt it will be upheld, but wow. Just wow. If anything the ruling could motivate Dems to turn out in full force in November.
/Silver lining and all that...


fts;dr
 
2012-04-27 11:32:07 AM  

EWreckedSean: Basically it allows the state to break collective bargaining agreements in school districts that are bankrupt, so the unions are fighting it tooth and nail.


Oh, so management is trying to change the contract everyone agreed on after it was signed. I guess the union should just go suck a lemon.

Of farking course they're fighting it. If the union doesn't fight that, WTF are they there for?
 
2012-04-27 11:33:14 AM  

Wyalt Derp: mrmyxolodian: I doubt it will be upheld, but wow. Just wow. If anything the ruling could motivate Dems to turn out in full force in November.
/Silver lining and all that...

fts;dr


Awesome
 
2012-04-27 11:33:49 AM  

mrmyxolodian: I doubt it will be upheld, but wow. Just wow. If anything the ruling could motivate Dems to turn out in full force in November.
/Silver lining and all that...


I'm sorry, did you say something?

How is this even possible in a so-called civilized society?
 
2012-04-27 11:35:23 AM  
It's ridiculous to toss a petition because of font size.

That having been said, what kind of moron made up the petitions? You don't get creative, because you know opponents will nitpick every little thing. You triple-check every letter, number, and period. "Well, the law says the font has to be this big, but what the heck, I can save paper. Then on my way home, I'll hug a tree."

/I'm assuming the law was clear -- "Use a font at least 18-point in size, and we'll shoot you if it's Comic Sans" or something. If the law is unclear, I take back the "moron" bit.
 
2012-04-27 11:35:25 AM  

PlatinumDragon: Faking an inability to comprehend a statement is pretty sad, but thanks for giving up any attempt at trying to argue a point and switching to grammar Nazism. It makes my day easier.


lulz.

You mad, bro?
 
2012-04-27 11:39:48 AM  

magusdevil: halfof33: meat0918: Aar1012: I'm betting the sale of pitchforks and torches will be increasing m in Michigan

Nah, but the makings of Molotovs and sales of AK-47s.

Seriously GOP. FARK YOU.

This is just another example.

Then you have Arizona.

Florida's stupid drug testing law.

All the anti-women's health rights laws and actions.

And something that is actually affecting me directly, the Republican that is running for Oregon's Congressional District 4 convinced his son to change party affiliations from R to D right before the primary deadline and now his son is running as a Democrat. They even share a campaign manager and funding sources.

Another board member, Julie Matuzak, a Democrat, works for one of the unions participating in the petition drive, the News also reports.



Uh, you might want to take a look at the Czar of Illinois, Mike Madigan and the shenanigans he has pulled in elections. Or the fact that they kept "john Stroger" "alive" so his son could take his place.

Why do Democrats hate democracy so badly that they seek to subvert it at every turn?

I give up, what is undemocratic about either of these? Just give me one example.


Removal of the competition by bending the rules?
 
2012-04-27 11:40:05 AM  
FTFA: "if we are wrong than [sic] Democracy is wrong"

How do you get a then/than [sic] in a written account of a verbal statement? Someone must have very exacting ears.
 
2012-04-27 11:41:41 AM  

Weaver95: of course, the reality is that rejecting 200,000 recall petition signatures due to 'font size' is going to create one hell of a massive backlash that will quite possibly smash the local GOP organization to bits later on in the next election


Doubt it. I only heard this in passing on NPR, and I wasn't even certain which side was arguing about the font size. Michigan's voting blocs (Detroit, SE, and W) are too big and too devoted to their own sides to allow folks in the middle to hear the news and react to it in a non-partisan way.
 
2012-04-27 11:42:51 AM  

magusdevil:
I give up, what is undemocratic about either of these? Just give me one example.


Link
 
2012-04-27 11:44:06 AM  

Aidan: Weaver95: of course, the reality is that rejecting 200,000 recall petition signatures due to 'font size' is going to create one hell of a massive backlash that will quite possibly smash the local GOP organization to bits later on in the next election

Doubt it. I only heard this in passing on NPR, and I wasn't even certain which side was arguing about the font size. Michigan's voting blocs (Detroit, SE, and W) are too big and too devoted to their own sides to allow folks in the middle to hear the news and react to it in a non-partisan way.


Really? A petition to overturn a law passed by Republican-dominated government is rejected, and you're not sure who was on the rejecting side?
 
2012-04-27 11:45:22 AM  

halfof33: magusdevil:
I give up, what is undemocratic about either of these? Just give me one example.

Link


... Is that guy doing that preventing other republicans from trying to run against him?

IS there anything in that article that's not just speculation?
 
2012-04-27 11:46:02 AM  
But the board's Republicans chose to take a strict interpretation of the typeface code. According to the Detroit News, Board of Canvassers member Jeffrey Timmer works for the political consulting firm that pushed the font-size challenge.

Obstructionist Republicans? No way?!?!

Seriously, how much is "too small"? Is everything still legible? Are we talking 1 point(1/72 of an inch)?, or is it written in the same miniscule type as a disclaimer on an ad for Levitra?

Seriously, can we just reboot the Republiucan Party, throw out anyone older than 35 or so? Maybe that will restore them to something other than the subject of curses and jokes.
 
2012-04-27 11:47:05 AM  

halfof33: magusdevil:
I give up, what is undemocratic about either of these? Just give me one example.

Link


So you believe this is undemocratic as well, right?
 
2012-04-27 11:47:09 AM  

qorkfiend: Aidan: Weaver95: of course, the reality is that rejecting 200,000 recall petition signatures due to 'font size' is going to create one hell of a massive backlash that will quite possibly smash the local GOP organization to bits later on in the next election

Doubt it. I only heard this in passing on NPR, and I wasn't even certain which side was arguing about the font size. Michigan's voting blocs (Detroit, SE, and W) are too big and too devoted to their own sides to allow folks in the middle to hear the news and react to it in a non-partisan way.

Really? A petition to overturn a law passed by Republican-dominated government is rejected, and you're not sure who was on the rejecting side?


Tch. I meant the NEWS ARTICLE on NPR wasn't well-presented.
 
2012-04-27 11:50:00 AM  
I heard that the people challenging the petition work in the same office as the Republicans on the committee making the decision on it. So it's like the same person is both the pitcher and the umpire.
 
2012-04-27 11:50:51 AM  

Alphax: I heard that the people challenging the petition work in the same office as the Republicans on the committee making the decision on it. So it's like the same person is both the pitcher and the umpire.


Shocking, isn't it?
 
2012-04-27 11:55:46 AM  

cman: Of all the things that could have been wrong it gets tossed on this?

Its farking inconsequential.

Its not like a comma was left out that could change its whole meaning. Its not like there was a sentence in the petition that could be misread.

This is an attack on the spirit of Democracy


Precisely. If it were some kind of Minimum font-size requirement saying, for instance that no type on the petition be below 4-points, so organizers couldn;t hide anything in the fine print, I could understand this. But they are trying to invalidate the petitions because they used the computer standard 12-point type instead of 14, WTF? I can see the Appeals court striking this down with great vengance and furious anger.
 
2012-04-27 11:58:21 AM  

Philip Francis Queeg: halfof33: magusdevil:
I give up, what is undemocratic about either of these? Just give me one example.

Link

So you believe this is undemocratic as well, right?


You did read more than just the headline, right? The whole article is pretty lulzy. Those Cheeseheads are cray cray.
 
2012-04-27 11:58:36 AM  

Alphax: I heard that the people challenging the petition work in the same office as the Republicans on the committee making the decision on it. So it's like the same person is both the pitcher and the umpire.


Yeah, but one of the petition's signature collecters is on the committee too, so it's a wash.
 
2012-04-27 11:59:54 AM  

Alphax: I heard that the people challenging the petition work in the same office as the Republicans on the committee making the decision on it. So it's like the same person is both the pitcher and the umpire.


I heard that the people challenging the petition work with the Democrats on the committee making the decision on it. So it's like the same person is both the pitcher and the umpire
 
2012-04-27 12:01:06 PM  

Dr Dreidel: MyRandomName: Vodka Zombie: Keep voting Republican, Michigan. After all, they protect the Constitution, doncha know.

Hehe, look at Obamas first state legislature campaign... He did the same shiat. His team also did similar actions in the presidential primaries. Hint... Politicians often invoke technicalities in attempts to win.

Wasn't the "technicality" that his opponent didn't get a sufficient number of signatures to get on the ballot? (That's what wiki says...)

That's like saying that my challenging Miley Cyrus' bid for the presidency is based on my exploiting the "technicality" that she's not 35 years old. It's literally the same "technicality" that kept Santorum and Gingrich off the primary ballot in VA.


http://theobamafile.com/_associates/AlicePalmer.htm

He went through line by line to throw out signatures to disqualify all of his opponents in the primary. Many sites will state not all the signatures were fake, but some didn't match up with change of address on voter role calls, a technicality. That is just the first mention I found since I'm on a mobile.
 
2012-04-27 12:01:17 PM  

QU!RK1019: As if a referendum of the emergency manager law is a "technicality" that the Dems are trying to exploit. If it's any consolation, I liked yours better though. It's got that sweet Derpolina flavor.


technicality |ˌtekniˈkalitē|
noun ( pl. technicalities )
a point of law or a small detail of a set of rules: their convictions were overturned on a technicality .
• (technicalities) the specific details or terms belonging to a particular field: he has great expertise in the technicalities of the game.

/scoffs at your incredulity
 
2012-04-27 12:01:38 PM  

halfof33: Philip Francis Queeg: halfof33: magusdevil:
I give up, what is undemocratic about either of these? Just give me one example.

Link

So you believe this is undemocratic as well, right?

You did read more than just the headline, right? The whole article is pretty lulzy. Those Cheeseheads are cray cray.


So is that a "Yes" or a "No"?
 
2012-04-27 12:03:56 PM  

skullkrusher: Wendy's Chili: skullkrusher: Wendy's Chili: First they took away the people's representation and now they're blocking attempts to restore that representation through the democratic process.

I usually think people are stupid or crazy when they talk about armed revolts, but those guys are leaving little recourse for the citizens that they're "emergency managing".

I don't really have an issue with emergency managers. If the state is supporting these municipalities they have a duty to all the taxpayers of the state to make sure the funds are used appropriately but FFS, this isn't the answer.

/the answer is to stop funding the municipalities

Every American should have an issue with these "emergency managers". We're not talking about places hit by earthquakes or hurricanes, just ones that happen to be poor. There's no justification for taking away their right to govern themselves.

there would be no justification if they weren't supported by state money. However, if they are, the state has a responsibility to ensure that that money is used in the best interests of the people of the city and the state. A complete takeover with a city dictator being installed is probably too much but
if a city cannot support itself and relies on the people of the state, the people of the state have an interest in making sure that those funds are used to right the ship


Were the people affected by this given the choice between money and franchise? If not, this is the most un-american thing I've ever heard of.
 
2012-04-27 12:04:56 PM  

qorkfiend: I suppose the "good" (and I use that term loosely) part about these emergency managers is that they can make the hard decisions without worrying about the political consequences, which is usually what prevents the elected officials from acting.


That's pretty much the reason why they're put into their roles.

For anyone screaming about EFMs being an attack on local government, stop smoking catnip. The governor can't just wake up and decide that a city or school district needs an EFM; there are some well-defined milestones that determine whether a city/district is insolvent, and that's how Saginaw has been able to dodge an EFM where Flint, Pontiac and Benton Harbor haven't.

FlashHarry: you have GOT to be kidding me. i hope local media picks this up and runs with it. farking republicans. jesus christ.


According to TFA, HuffPo picked up the story from MLive, which is the old Booth Newspapers chain (GR, Kazoo, Muskegon, Jackson, Flint, Saginaw and Bay City). Local media isn't going to run with this very far, for a variety of reasons.
 
2012-04-27 12:05:21 PM  

Philip Francis Queeg: halfof33: Philip Francis Queeg: halfof33: magusdevil:
I give up, what is undemocratic about either of these? Just give me one example.

Link

So you believe this is undemocratic as well, right?

You did read more than just the headline, right? The whole article is pretty lulzy. Those Cheeseheads are cray cray.

So is that a "Yes" or a "No"?


Uh, it is did you read the article? What is "this"? You mean the part where they talked about the Democrats crossed over to vote for Santorum? That is the part, right?

rolls eyes.
 
2012-04-27 12:10:17 PM  

halfof33: Philip Francis Queeg: halfof33: Philip Francis Queeg: halfof33: magusdevil:
I give up, what is undemocratic about either of these? Just give me one example.

Link

So you believe this is undemocratic as well, right?

You did read more than just the headline, right? The whole article is pretty lulzy. Those Cheeseheads are cray cray.

So is that a "Yes" or a "No"?

Uh, it is did you read the article? What is "this"? You mean the part where they talked about the Democrats crossed over to vote for Santorum? That is the part, right?

rolls eyes.


"Fake Democratic candidates are running in all six recall elections that target Walker, Lt. Gov. Rebecca Kleefisch and four state Senate seats. Walker is the only Republican who has a primary challenger, albeit one with little name recognition who is a Walker opponent despite claiming to be a Republican."

""We are encouraging Republicans to vote in the Democratic primaries," said state Rep. Robin Vos, the Republican expected to serve as speaker of the Assembly next year. Vos said people frequently bring up the tactic to him and he doesn't discourage them from doing it, although he's not actively working to coordinate a widespread crossover voter effort."

"Republicans ran fake Democrats in six recall elections last year, but none of them advanced out of the primary. All but one of them failed to get more than 36 percent of the vote."

Just as bad as the Anti-democratic Mike Madigan, right?
 
2012-04-27 12:11:00 PM  
this is like that college paper you get where the instruction are 5 pages minimum double spaced and 12pt font and you write 6 pages but decide to use a 13 font on the title so you fail right?
 
2012-04-27 12:13:18 PM  

Philip Francis Queeg: halfof33: Philip Francis Queeg: halfof33: Philip Francis Queeg: halfof33: magusdevil:
I give up, what is undemocratic about either of these? Just give me one example.

Link

So you believe this is undemocratic as well, right?

You did read more than just the headline, right? The whole article is pretty lulzy. Those Cheeseheads are cray cray.

So is that a "Yes" or a "No"?

Uh, it is did you read the article? What is "this"? You mean the part where they talked about the Democrats crossed over to vote for Santorum? That is the part, right?

rolls eyes.

"Fake Democratic candidates are running in all six recall elections that target Walker, Lt. Gov. Rebecca Kleefisch and four state Senate seats. Walker is the only Republican who has a primary challenger, albeit one with little name recognition who is a Walker opponent despite claiming to be a Republican."

""We are encouraging Republicans to vote in the Democratic primaries," said state Rep. Robin Vos, the Republican expected to serve as speaker of the Assembly next year. Vos said people frequently bring up the tactic to him and he doesn't discourage them from doing it, although he's not actively working to coordinate a widespread crossover voter effort."

"Republicans ran fake Democrats in six recall elections last year, but none of them advanced out of the primary. All but one of them failed to get more than 36 percent of the vote."

Just as bad as the Anti-democratic Mike Madigan, right?


Did you miss the part where it says that the Democrats do it too?

Of course you did.
 
2012-04-27 12:14:55 PM  

NuttierThanEver: [www.freewebs.com image 400x289]

Well they are technically correct, which is the best kind of correct.


My thoughts exactly.
 
2012-04-27 12:15:18 PM  

meat0918: magusdevil: halfof33: meat0918: Aar1012: I'm betting the sale of pitchforks and torches will be increasing m in Michigan

Nah, but the makings of Molotovs and sales of AK-47s.

Seriously GOP. FARK YOU.

This is just another example.

Then you have Arizona.

Florida's stupid drug testing law.

All the anti-women's health rights laws and actions.

And something that is actually affecting me directly, the Republican that is running for Oregon's Congressional District 4 convinced his son to change party affiliations from R to D right before the primary deadline and now his son is running as a Democrat. They even share a campaign manager and funding sources.

Another board member, Julie Matuzak, a Democrat, works for one of the unions participating in the petition drive, the News also reports.



Uh, you might want to take a look at the Czar of Illinois, Mike Madigan and the shenanigans he has pulled in elections. Or the fact that they kept "john Stroger" "alive" so his son could take his place.

Why do Democrats hate democracy so badly that they seek to subvert it at every turn?

I give up, what is undemocratic about either of these? Just give me one example.

Removal of the competition by bending the rules?


I'm sorry I should have said specific example. You know names dates places, the kind of things that make a story not just bluster.
 
2012-04-27 12:16:14 PM  
I'm sorry I should have said specific example. You know names dates places, the kind of things that make a story not just bluster.
 
2012-04-27 12:16:36 PM  

Magorn: cman: Of all the things that could have been wrong it gets tossed on this?

Its farking inconsequential.

Its not like a comma was left out that could change its whole meaning. Its not like there was a sentence in the petition that could be misread.

This is an attack on the spirit of Democracy

Precisely. If it were some kind of Minimum font-size requirement saying, for instance that no type on the petition be below 4-points, so organizers couldn;t hide anything in the fine print, I could understand this. But they are trying to invalidate the petitions because they used the computer standard 12-point type instead of 14, WTF? I can see the Appeals court striking this down with great vengance and furious anger.


Actually, if they used 12 point type when the rules call for 14 point, the appellate panel would have no choice but to throw out the petition. But since the printer certified that the legal requirement was met before the presses rolled, that turns this into a discussion of how type is sized. Again, the printer's correct: you can't simply measure type size with a ruler.
 
2012-04-27 12:18:38 PM  

halfof33: magusdevil:
I give up, what is undemocratic about either of these? Just give me one example.

Link


Thanks for the speculative "did he?" We're just asking questions style article.
 
2012-04-27 12:20:47 PM  
Republican Jeffrey Timmer, one of two members of his party on the board, works for the Sterling Corporation, a Republican political consulting firm which formed an opposition group called Citizens for Fiscal Responsibility that has challenged the repeal effort. The group says the font size on the petitions is too small, in violation of state rules.

WTF and they argue that a republican on a board of a group that FORMED an opposition group is the same as the democrat that happened to be in a group that supported but didn't write it it is the same...
 
2012-04-27 12:20:51 PM  

magusdevil: halfof33: magusdevil:
I give up, what is undemocratic about either of these? Just give me one example.

Link

Thanks for the speculative "did he?" We're just asking questions style article.


You are welcome
 
2012-04-27 12:21:12 PM  

halfof33: Philip Francis Queeg: halfof33: Philip Francis Queeg: halfof33: Philip Francis Queeg: halfof33: magusdevil:
I give up, what is undemocratic about either of these? Just give me one example.

Link

So you believe this is undemocratic as well, right?

You did read more than just the headline, right? The whole article is pretty lulzy. Those Cheeseheads are cray cray.

So is that a "Yes" or a "No"?

Uh, it is did you read the article? What is "this"? You mean the part where they talked about the Democrats crossed over to vote for Santorum? That is the part, right?

rolls eyes.

"Fake Democratic candidates are running in all six recall elections that target Walker, Lt. Gov. Rebecca Kleefisch and four state Senate seats. Walker is the only Republican who has a primary challenger, albeit one with little name recognition who is a Walker opponent despite claiming to be a Republican."

""We are encouraging Republicans to vote in the Democratic primaries," said state Rep. Robin Vos, the Republican expected to serve as speaker of the Assembly next year. Vos said people frequently bring up the tactic to him and he doesn't discourage them from doing it, although he's not actively working to coordinate a widespread crossover voter effort."

"Republicans ran fake Democrats in six recall elections last year, but none of them advanced out of the primary. All but one of them failed to get more than 36 percent of the vote."

Just as bad as the Anti-democratic Mike Madigan, right?

Did you miss the part where it says that the Democrats do it too?

Of course you did.


Did you mention that Republicans do it too in your attack on Madigan and Democrats in general?
 
2012-04-27 12:22:46 PM  
I just want to point out that this is the only post in the thread that uses the correct font. Please don't waste your vote on incorrect posts.
 
2012-04-27 12:23:01 PM  

halfof33: magusdevil: halfof33: magusdevil:
I give up, what is undemocratic about either of these? Just give me one example.

Link

Thanks for the speculative "did he?" We're just asking questions style article.

You are welcome


So, we can't prove anything but isn't it possiblr that Michael Madigan is in fact a reptoid from the fourth dimension? This is what passes for evidence in your "mind"?
 
2012-04-27 12:24:24 PM  
Go ahead, Republicans. Keep abusing your constitutents. I'm sure there will be no consequences.
 
2012-04-27 12:24:51 PM  

halfof33: Did you miss the part where it says that the Democrats do it too?


They also support a woman's right to choose, and equal marriage rights for the LGBT community. So I guess you know what you have to do.
 
2012-04-27 12:26:03 PM  

busy chillin': If the people petition changes you don't like, use technicalities to void their efforts.


Welcome to Fark Politics.
 
2012-04-27 12:26:34 PM  
My Freshman son's entire Geography class just got dinged on a test for answering TRUE to the question "Representative democracy is good for a Free Market." His teacher is a Libertarian who spends most of the class time showing them John Stossel videos.

Their are a hell of a lot of people in this country who don't like our system of government very much.
 
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