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(BBC)   Netherlands judge to decide whether foreign tourists should be banned from entering cannabis cafes. NOOOOOOO   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 147
    More: Sad, European Court of Human Rights, Netherlands, soft drugs  
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5256 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Apr 2012 at 8:50 AM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-27 11:44:51 AM  

mongbiohazard: D_Evans45:I don't know about your states laws, I live in CA, but Colorado is the only state that is more liberal than us re: pot.


Not so. You should check out the pot laws in Alaska. It's totally legal under state law to possess up to four ounces or 25 plants for personal use. Seriously.



Even the CA default state guidelines are double that weight limit, and several counties allow way more than that. As in, upwards of 2 pounds.

Also, we get away with square footage of plant canopy, plant number irrelevant. Until recent years we were allowed 100 sq ft of canopy in some Northern CA counties, though a quick skim of this link shows many have scaled it to 50-75 sq ft of canopy in the past couple years. Mendocino had a 99 plant limit until 3 months ago.

/Awesome to hear Alaska has gained a rep for compassion though
 
2012-04-27 11:47:10 AM  
We are only allowed 12 by default though.

/Nobody ever checks on your plant count anyway
//Also, what do you need 25 plants for
 
2012-04-27 11:51:14 AM  
http://www.canorml.org/medical-marijuana/local-growing-limits-in-Calif ornia

/Sorry mongbiohazard, this was the link I mentioned in my original post
 
2012-04-27 11:54:41 AM  

farkeruk: D_Evans45: Never understood the urge for people to fly internationally to get high

A lot of leisure travel is about social status. People go places to tell their non-friends where they went.


That may well be the reason actually. Just so they can tell their stoner friends "Dude, I like TOTALLY got high in Amsterdam man. And dude, it was like... WOAH I'm high... and I'm like in Amsterdam man. It was wild!"

Because as a practical matter, you can procure marijuana of high quality anywhere in the free world at a price that reflects the risk involved. You could probably grow your own for personal use with very minimal risk unless you're some kind of Cheech and Chong like super stoner (and if you are, you may have a problem). If you just have the urge to get high, you don't need a plane ticket to achieve that goal.
 
2012-04-27 11:58:06 AM  
40% of tourists go to Holland to get high.
 
2012-04-27 11:58:44 AM  

nekom: farkeruk: D_Evans45: Never understood the urge for people to fly internationally to get high

A lot of leisure travel is about social status. People go places to tell their non-friends where they went.

That may well be the reason actually. Just so they can tell their stoner friends "Dude, I like TOTALLY got high in Amsterdam man. And dude, it was like... WOAH I'm high... and I'm like in Amsterdam man. It was wild!"

Because as a practical matter, you can procure marijuana of high quality anywhere in the free world at a price that reflects the risk involved. You could probably grow your own for personal use with very minimal risk unless you're some kind of Cheech and Chong like super stoner (and if you are, you may have a problem). If you just have the urge to get high, you don't need a plane ticket to achieve that goal.


i'm fairly certain i could pull off transporting and possibly plant growth with no suspicion of my doing so. i'm such and unnoticeable type when it comes to that sort of thing, and the fact that i don't partake means i won't run any risk of getting high on my own supply. the only thing that even stopped me from doing this about 6 to 8 years ago was the fact that the tiny chance of getting caught would indeed exist. i ain't cut out for prison or a record!
 
2012-04-27 12:10:45 PM  

bungle_jr: i'm fairly certain i could pull off transporting and possibly plant growth with no suspicion of my doing so. i'm such and unnoticeable type when it comes to that sort of thing, and the fact that i don't partake means i won't run any risk of getting high on my own supply. the only thing that even stopped me from doing this about 6 to 8 years ago was the fact that the tiny chance of getting caught would indeed exist. i ain't cut out for prison or a record!


Yeah, I don't know a lot about marijuana law but I'm fairly certain being caught growing or distributing it has far greater consequences than simply having a joint in your pocket. I'd never take that risk either, though if I wanted to smoke it, I probably would have a very small growing operation for my personal use only and I very much doubt it would ever be detected. But I gave that stuff up years ago.
 
2012-04-27 12:11:12 PM  
This is a clear violation of EU law and would in all probability be overturned on appeal.
 
2012-04-27 12:17:55 PM  

nekom: If you just have the urge to get high, you don't need a plane ticket to achieve that goal.


Exactly

I meet parents who go to Florida from the UK to go to Disneyland, when there's a park in Paris that's like 2 hours away by train and costs a fraction of the price with no jet lag. They're like "oh, but the Florida park is better", like they're not the same rides, the same queues and all that. If I'm going to change my budget from £800 to £4000, then I expect a Disney Princess to rim me for the price.
 
2012-04-27 12:20:16 PM  

farkeruk: topcon: If you think the only reason to visit The Netherlands is to smoke pot, you're a moron. If you think most people go to The Netherlands to smoke pot, you're also a moron.

They also go for the "banana show".

There's 2 things that are worth going to Amsterdam for that aren't sleazy:-
1. The Architecture
2. The Anne Frank House

The food is basically terrible, except for the rijstaffel (which is an Indonesian import). The art museums are OK, but Paris or Madrid are better. The weather is terrible. The shopping isn't great.

Had a long weekend there with my wife. Did the Anne Frank House. Did a canal boat trip. Went to the Van Gogh Museum. That was about 1 and a half days of our trip. After that, we were pretty bored for 3 days.

Yet, it's one of the most visited cities in Europe. But nothing to do with smoking weed...


Amsterdam had some fantastic Thai restaurants which surprised me...though after noticing how many lovely SE Asian hookers there were it started to make sense.

Aw come on, the Van Gogh and Rijksmuseum are pretty amazing. Way better than someplace like the goddamn Uffizzi; I'd rather see a hundred Van Goghs or various dutch old masters than a hundred different artists' take on another damn Pietà.

Missed the Anne Frank house. To my shame, the day we planned to go started with a 9:30 am tour of the Heineken brewery and meeting a couple British girls...the rest of the day got kind of hazy.
 
2012-04-27 12:20:45 PM  
I need some Febo snacks after following this thread.
 
2012-04-27 12:30:09 PM  

Gabrielmot: farkeruk: topcon: If you think the only reason to visit The Netherlands is to smoke pot, you're a moron. If you think most people go to The Netherlands to smoke pot, you're also a moron.

They also go for the "banana show".

There's 2 things that are worth going to Amsterdam for that aren't sleazy:-
1. The Architecture
2. The Anne Frank House

The food is basically terrible, except for the rijstaffel (which is an Indonesian import). The art museums are OK, but Paris or Madrid are better. The weather is terrible. The shopping isn't great.

Had a long weekend there with my wife. Did the Anne Frank House. Did a canal boat trip. Went to the Van Gogh Museum. That was about 1 and a half days of our trip. After that, we were pretty bored for 3 days.

Yet, it's one of the most visited cities in Europe. But nothing to do with smoking weed...

Dude. If you missed out on eating a stroopwafel, you should shoot yourself.

/My mouth is watering thinking about them... I wish they were easy to find here, but glad they aren't or I'd be 300 pounds by now.


I miss stroopwafels. Also, Castell gave me one of the best steaks I have ever eaten. Bonus: on the menu, the "Holandes Goucho" English translation is "Dutch fat ass steak".

/Moved there 6 months for work, loved it even as a non-smoker.
 
2012-04-27 12:30:35 PM  

bikerdiva: I need some Febo snacks after following this thread.


i662.photobucket.com

Someone say Febo?
 
2012-04-27 12:36:06 PM  
Dude who said the food was crap must be eating in all of the wrong places.

This was the first course of our rice table.

i662.photobucket.com

Then came this.

i662.photobucket.com

After a visit to the coffeeshop we had this.

i662.photobucket.com

Then you top it off with this.

i662.photobucket.com
 
2012-04-27 12:51:48 PM  
The ghost of Vincent Vega has a sad.
 
2012-04-27 12:54:30 PM  

farkeruk: After that, we were pretty bored for 3 days.


DUDE THATS WHY YOU GOTTA GET BAKED
 
2012-04-27 01:05:44 PM  
Just got back from Amsterdam- first trip, and I loved it! The Van Gogh museum was a highlight for me, saw In The Bedroom for the second time in my life and his life story is pretty fascinating. I personally enjoyed it more than the Louvre.

The one mistake we made was staying in a huge hotel right on the border of the RLD. It was noisy all hours of the night and it felt rather sketchy if you went outside after a certain time. That didn't ruin my good time though and on a whole I felt very safe in Amsterdam. We encountered some very nice and welcoming people and not just in the more touristy districts of town.

It would be a shame to not allow foreigners into the coffee shops though. It was an interesting experience, and isn't that what traveling is all about?
 
2012-04-27 01:20:49 PM  
All I remember about Amsterdam is getting out of my bunk one morning at Bob's Youth Hostel (yah rly), stumbling downstairs at 7:30am for the included breakfast, and sitting next to a guy smoking a joint the size of a cigar (no joke). At breakfast. Before 8am. I'm all for kicking back but that dude has a problem.
 
2012-04-27 01:33:47 PM  

fireclown: D_Evans45: //Go to California or Colorado, load up craigslist, and check out the Health and Beauty products for sale

While we have the lawbooks out, what the hell IS the law on weed in Colorado? Particularly in Summit county?
I see prices for weed in grocery stores, but I'm not sure if I need a prescription or if small amounts are legal or what.


In Colorado you need a medical marijuana card to legally buy and possess the herb. You must be a Colorado citizen, get a doctors recommendation and submit it and other paperwork to the state. They will then issue you a card. This will allow you to possess 6 plants and up to 2 oz in possession. Don't know what you are talking regarding weed in a grocery store. Only licensed MMJ dispenaries are allowed to sell the herb.

//There is a ballot initiative on the 2012 ballot to allow anyone 21 or older to possess 6 plants and one oz.
 
2012-04-27 01:33:50 PM  
I got an idea, why don't all the countries of the world ban together and enforce one set of laws?
 
2012-04-27 01:42:28 PM  

Dreyelle: I got an idea, why don't all the countries of the world ban together and enforce one set of laws?


You'd like to get in on that "farewell sex," wouldn't you?
 
2012-04-27 01:51:56 PM  

towatchoverme: Coming on a Bicycle: Exactly. The problem isn't American tourists coming over to smoke pot, it's the French and German fast boys driving over to get their stash and their home-countries complaining.

THIS.

Germany is putting the pressure on Holland because they have their lederhosen in a wad.

If I were living in Holland, I'd tell Fritz to climb up on a chair and bite my lanky Dutch ass.



The phrase you are looking for is "give me back my bike".

That's how the Dutch insult the Germans.

/Amsterdammer
 
2012-04-27 02:07:51 PM  

Dreyelle: I got an idea, why don't all the countries of the world ban together and enforce one set of laws?


More money/graft in this system.
 
2012-04-27 02:33:50 PM  

farkeruk: topcon: If you think the only reason to visit The Netherlands is to smoke pot, you're a moron. If you think most people go to The Netherlands to smoke pot, you're also a moron.

They also go for the "banana show".

There's 2 things that are worth going to Amsterdam for that aren't sleazy:-
1. The Architecture
2. The Anne Frank House

The food is basically terrible, except for the rijstaffel (which is an Indonesian import). The art museums are OK, but Paris or Madrid are better. The weather is terrible. The shopping isn't great.

Had a long weekend there with my wife. Did the Anne Frank House. Did a canal boat trip. Went to the Van Gogh Museum. That was about 1 and a half days of our trip. After that, we were pretty bored for 3 days.

Yet, it's one of the most visited cities in Europe. But nothing to do with smoking weed...


Your description mirrors everything I've ever heard about Amsterdam, but most have mentioned the Heineken brewery also.
 
2012-04-27 02:39:44 PM  
That CO would allow only 6 plants and 2 ounces surprises me, I was under the impression CO was more MMJ friendly than CA was. I certainly hope the fair CO residents don't ever have to deal with the sweeping fed crackdown that we've seen all over southern CA in the past few months.

I think that plant count is a gray area anyway. There is no policing agency that monitors every medical patients garden from time to time to enforce anybody's plant count. There is no registry you are required to enroll in or anything either to grow. Nobody knows how many medical patients are growing, and if they are, how many plants they are growing. If your neighbors call the cops because it smells like a bunch of skunks killed each other in your backyard around harvest season, you might get a visit from local cops. Youre cop fodder if youre over the limit.

If you dont draw attention to yourself, nobody but you will know your plant count. You can have a house full of plants flowering at all times if nobody else knows, no agency is coming by and enforcing the plant limits. People do it here in California all the time, quite a lot of the medical pot sold here is generated in this fashion. If I didnt have a family, Id have a whole garden inside too, not just a single plant outside like I do today. Pot fetches $1500-$3,000 a pound, and it grows like dandelions.
 
2012-04-27 02:40:48 PM  

danno_to_infinity: well, now I won't even bother getting a passport. No need to ever go to Europe. Thanks, stupid judge


While I agree it's a stupid move, so is traveling to Europe just to get some weed. Or not going to Europe just because you can't get weed (legally).
 
2012-04-27 02:55:44 PM  

topcon: Walker: topcon: Walker: Don't most people go to the Netherlands just to look at the tulips? HAHAHAHAHAHA I couldn't even type that with a straight face.

Get ready to see your tourism dollars plummet.
This just in....Las Vegas to ban tourists from gambling. Thinks everything will work out OK because people will come for the shows from 70's performers, Celine Dion, and Criss Angel.

If you think the only reason to visit The Netherlands is to smoke pot, you're a moron. If you think most people go to The Netherlands to smoke pot, you're also a moron.

[img.photobucket.com image 640x495]

And we've got a typical American moron over here.

"DURR, PEOPLE ONLY GO TO THE NETHERLANDS TO SMOKE POT."


FTFA, DURR: "the nationwide ban is being strongly opposed by the Mayor of Amsterdam, Eberhard van der Laan, because around a third of the city's tourists visit to smoke cannabis in the cafes."

/Realize that Amsterdam isn't "the Netherlands"
Realize that 1/3 is not most or all, but it's a large number.
 
2012-04-27 03:09:40 PM  
Sorry Stoner Dudes, Amsterdam just got a lot less cooler.
Hookers still available for window shoppers.
Mayor afraid of huge decrease in tourism. Lemme see. Anne Frank Haus, Rijksmuseum, Vincent Van Gogh. Yeah, no reason t
o visit.
 
2012-04-27 03:17:09 PM  
Finally Big Pharma lobbyists have bought off the Dutch government. I never thought I'd see the day.
 
2012-04-27 03:38:16 PM  
The street cars will hit you if you are in the way, they will not stop for your drunk ass.

Friends learned this the hard way my last visit there.
 
2012-04-27 03:38:46 PM  

D_Evans45: mongbiohazard: D_Evans45:I don't know about your states laws, I live in CA, but Colorado is the only state that is more liberal than us re: pot.


Not so. You should check out the pot laws in Alaska. It's totally legal under state law to possess up to four ounces or 25 plants for personal use. Seriously.


Even the CA default state guidelines are double that weight limit, and several counties allow way more than that. As in, upwards of 2 pounds.

Also, we get away with square footage of plant canopy, plant number irrelevant. Until recent years we were allowed 100 sq ft of canopy in some Northern CA counties, though a quick skim of this link shows many have scaled it to 50-75 sq ft of canopy in the past couple years. Mendocino had a 99 plant limit until 3 months ago.

/Awesome to hear Alaska has gained a rep for compassion though



Nice! I didn't realize it was square footage... That's pretty cool. With a fraction of that square footage I could keep myself in sticky icky all year. But is that really all allowed for personal use? I was under the impression that the state law required a medical referral, and that you'd have to register to be a grower - that you couldn't just grow for personal use.

The magic of the Alaska law is that you don't have to register anything or get a doctor referral or anything else.... It was deemed a state constitutional right for every citizen to grow and smoke their own marijuana.
 
2012-04-27 03:40:25 PM  

willfullyobscure: Brooncafes, on the other hand, where you can get Dutch gin and its against the rules to make noise?


\Looks in liquor cabinet at bottles of genever.

It's not that hard to come by.
 
2012-04-27 03:41:31 PM  

Private_Citizen: I though the Rijksmuseum was much better. Although, a conversation I had with a guard at the Van Goh museum was kind of funny:
Me: I've looked everywhere, where can I find 'Sunflowers'?
Guard: New York.
Me: 'Starry nights'?
Guard: New York.
Me: Huh.


They brought them over when it was still New Amsterdam.
 
2012-04-27 03:57:09 PM  

farkeruk: nekom: If you just have the urge to get high, you don't need a plane ticket to achieve that goal.

Exactly

I meet parents who go to Florida from the UK to go to Disneyland, when there's a park in Paris that's like 2 hours away by train and costs a fraction of the price with no jet lag. They're like "oh, but the Florida park is better", like they're not the same rides, the same queues and all that. If I'm going to change my budget from £800 to £4000, then I expect a Disney Princess to rim me for the price.


The Disney complex in Florida is the largest single installation of amusement park infrastructure in world history. Four of the top-8 most attended amusement parks in the world are located there. It employs some 40,000 people, and has its own power plant and waterworks.

While the Magic Kingdom may compare to Disneyland Paris, Walt Disney World also encompasses the other three parks, two waterparks, two entertainment complexes, and 21 hotels. It is physically six times the size of Disneyland Paris, and has three times the annual attendance. It's like the difference between The Louvre and SF's de Young museum.
 
2012-04-27 04:18:05 PM  

nekom: Nurglitch: I heard that it's mainly a traffic issue to do with day tourists, people hopping over the border from neighboring countries. Apparently it clogs up their highways and such something fierce.

Well that would actually make sense, but there are other options to solve that. Build a drug superhighway perhaps.


And call it... The Autobong.
 
2012-04-27 04:22:14 PM  

snocone:
nontoxic herbs, not so much


If it's not toxic how is it manipulating your senses and thought process?
 
2012-04-27 04:30:18 PM  

mongbiohazard: D_Evans45:
...
Nice! I didn't realize it was square footage... That's pretty cool. With a fraction of that square footage I could keep myself in sticky icky all year. But is that really all allowed for personal use? I was under the impression that the state law required a medical referral, and that you'd have to register to be a grower - that you couldn't just grow for personal use.

The magic of the Alaska law is that you don't have to register anything or get a doctor referral or anything else.... It was deemed a state constitutional right for every citizen to grow and smoke their own marijuana.



Yeah personal use, though for legal reasons a lot of . Most of northern CA lets you grow like that. Down own in more populated areas they tend to regulate down, default is 12. There is a license you can apply for called a caregivers license, I dont know the specifics, those big time growers apply for that allows them to legally deal cannabis to a certain amount of people. But I get the feeling it is more of a legal "safety catch" so to speak to protect you when you are dealing big weight.

My everyday, run of the mill medical cannabis recommendation that is issued to everybody, not designated to growers, starts with this: "The purpose of this document is to identify the individual indicated above as a patient whose possession and/or cultivation of medical cannabis is permissible pursuant to CA Health and Safety Code Section 11362.5, Compassionate Use Act of 1996, (i.e. Prop 215) and Senate Bill 420."

You definitely must see a physician and claim an ailment before you are issued a rec though.
 
2012-04-27 04:31:55 PM  

T.M.S.: The phrase you are looking for is "give me back my bike".

That's how the Dutch insult the Germans.

/Amsterdammer


Jawel, ook dat.

My family members are more passive/aggressive.

They seem very polite to Germans, but give very bad directions.

/Zoon van een Amsterdammer
//Volgende jaar was de laatste keer dat ik in Nederland was
 
2012-04-27 05:05:00 PM  

fireclown: topcon: "DURR, PEOPLE ONLY GO TO THE NETHERLANDS TO SMOKE POT."

People probably don't go there as a stoner destination a whole lot unless they live pretty close by. But I would suspect that if you find yourself nearby you might stop by the cafe for a bong and a blintz. I have spent a whopping two days in Amsterdam but I made it a point to get baked.

/grist


I've been. I was in London for a while and decided to take a trip over there, while, you know, the coffeeshop culture still exists. Even back then they enacted some law to keep people from opening up new coffeeshops, so every once in a while a shop would close and it'd be gone for good, with none to replace it. Now with this new legislation it looks like they'll all be gone for good in a couple of years. Who do you think creates the demand for the coffeeshops? It isn't the native Dutch, or at least not to a degree to keep them all open. In just a few years the whole "you can smoke weed in Amsterdam pretty much completely legally" thing will be a thing of the past.

And damn, its nice over there. I've never smoked joints on the sidewalk in broad daylight so casually. Its a totally different experience, smoking in an environment where you don't have to worry about law enforcement or anything. In the US yeah sure you can find weed as good or better than what's in Amsterdam, but you don't get that kind of culture. And no matter where you smoke, its pretty much always against the law and you know deep down in your mind that if you get caught you'll get farked. You're much more mellow when that kind of thought doesn't even cross your mind.
 
2012-04-27 05:11:31 PM  

bikerdiva: I see this largely being ignored - they don't have the manpower to police it. Same for the smoking ban - there are now a ton of loopholes and people still smoke in cafes after 9pm. So, this will no doubt go the same route. It's still considered "soft crime," and you buying weed in cafes is the least of the country's worries.

As my hubster would say, "The Hague (where laws are made) is very far away..."


This is completely different from the smoking ban. It'll be like drinking age in the US, in order to even enter a coffeeshop you'll have to present proof of Dutch citizenship. They'll enforce it through fear, aka the idea that an undercover cop or whatever could drop by at any time and test them on their knowledge of the law. Same way they do in the US where undercover cops go to liquor stores and attempt to buy illegally. Shops that fail the test will definitely lose their license and the owner will probably face serious jailtime. The risks of that will be enforcement of the law, they won't have to station cops in every shop or anything like that.
 
2012-04-27 05:26:56 PM  
Best quote from the article:

The Dutch should not be allowed to discriminate against people on the basis of where they live.

Wow, imagine if that were true in the US. No out-of-state tuition, no "undocumented aliens", register your car in any county and pay any state's income tax (Florida FTW!), vote in any election anywhere. Because, hey, discrimination is evil.
 
2012-04-27 05:55:04 PM  

Communist_Manifesto: beta_plus: [media.nowpublic.net image 635x476]

[static.guim.co.uk image 460x276]

[i3.kym-cdn.com image 400x323]

/when you make locals long for nice American tourists, you've got a serious problem

Lol, I've been to Amsterdam twice and you couldn't be more right. The brits that go there are the most loud and obnoxious people I have ever met. That being said, if this passes I don't see myself going back. The way things are going the states (I'm looking at you Colorado and Washington) are going to have more liberalized weed laws anyway.


California's marijuana laws are practically the same as the Netherlands now. Only differences are you need a doctors note and we're allowed to have a much larger amount.
 
2012-04-27 06:27:41 PM  
Hmmm, looking back at the first sentence in my previous post, looks like I mangled the first sentence. I think you see what I mean though..
 
2012-04-27 10:27:40 PM  
As someone who has lived in Colorado and also spent significant time in Amsterdam (six weeks back in the guilder era, yes) I can say this is a stupid move.

Perhaps less than 1/3 pf the tourist (yes, even day-tourists) euros are spent in the coffee shop pursuit, but that's still a LOT of money.

That said, I loved Amsterdam (and Wassenaar and Leiden, etc, where I spent to much time) and there's a lot to see and do in that amazing country besides the coffee shops.

But I doubt I would have enjoyed the country or spent to much time there (and money!) without having those coffee shops available to me as an American tourist.

As far as Colorado goes, I so miss being able to obtain legal weed. Other than speeding occasionally, the only law I routinely break is purchasing weed. I don't plan on stopping soon, so I guess the stupid Prohibition of pot makes me a hardened criminal, and that's just a joke.
 
2012-04-28 09:08:30 AM  

ImDracula: Sorry Stoner Dudes, Amsterdam just got a lot less cooler.
Hookers still available for window shoppers.
Mayor afraid of huge decrease in tourism. Lemme see. Anne Frank Haus, Rijksmuseum, Vincent Van Gogh. Yeah, no reason to visit.


Barricaded Gunman: hasty ambush: Peoples obsession with preventing adults from obtaining vegetation to burn and inhale be it tobacco or marijuana, borders on the stupid.

Fixed that so I could agree with you.


Well that to, however on my list of priorities and concerns the legalization of pot ranks just above two guys who like to do each other being able to call themselves married and just below Naomi Wolfe being upset at Katie Perry.
 
2012-04-28 05:51:19 PM  

Zerocyde: snocone:
nontoxic herbs, not so much

If it's not toxic how is it manipulating your senses and thought process?



tox·ic [tok-sik] adjective
1. of, pertaining to, affected with, or caused by a toxin or poison: a toxic condition.

A toxin (from Greek: τοξικόν toxikon) is a poisonous substance produced within living cells or organisms.

WTF you talking about?
 
2012-04-29 02:07:04 PM  

snocone:

WTF you talking about?


If it influences your brain or nervous system it's a hepatotoxin. Also, I don't understand why you quoted a dictionary. Are you trying to imply that weed doesn't have living cells?
 
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