The student's father, Jack Berghouse, and his wife filed a lawsuit last week against the school district claiming their son's due process rights were violated.

Due process rights? If schools are treated legally in the UK the way they are treated in the U.S., then you don't get due process rights. You get whatever the school decides.

/in loco parentis... mother farker

Bathia_Mapes: RTA. This happened in Redwood City, California.

Oh, shiat.

/IN LOCO FARKING PARENTIS

This wouldn't have happened if Brendan Fraser kept his damn Jew mouth shut!

The problem I have with this is that the student has been selected for the program because of his abilities. If he is in the class due to inflated grades attributable to cheating, then he should absolutely be brought back to an appropriate academic level.

However, if he was cheating (as most students are wont to do at some point in their educational career) but is observably capable of handling the course, then he should be allowed to stay instead of being bumped back down to a class which wouldn't serve his academic interest very well.

It's not an honor to be in honors classes. It's simply a good way of putting academically equivalent students in the same class so that each ability level is best addressed.

It doesn't count because I signed that pledge with my LEFT hand... but I'm not really left-handed.

Andromeda: I confess I really never get parents who defend their cheating spawn. I mean I've never done the whole being a parent thing, but I'd imagine if I ever heard of my kids doing that I'd whack them on the side of the head for it, not sue the school.

CSB: One exception I can ever think of here was an overzealous history teacher wanted to drag a girl in my 10th grade class through all the academic integrity shiat because the draft of her paper didn't have appropriate citations. Still don't get what the hell that was about.

I had an English teacher who flunked me for a semester essentially because the citations in my term paper were too infrequent. I had made my sources clear, and honestly thought I was footnoting adequately. As a teen I just didn't fully grasp the whole citation process, and was just bewildered when he went ballistic with the whole dishonesty angle.

a) who reads what they sign nowadays anyway?

b) copying homework is cheating? Good grief. I'm sooooo guilty of that. In my defense, they said that teamwork was the way to go, so we applied that to homework as well. Half an hour bus ride to school is enough to copy a LOT of homework...

I wonder if the Berghouses can get me out of my lease...

My favorite case of cheating in my short career as a teacher so far:

We're reading Huck Finn. A student turns in three of the assigned summaries at one time, several weeks late. Two of them are about Huck Finn, but obviously not in this student's own words, and I quickly find them on the Internet by using Google.

The third one, though? It starts talking about Gandalf, Frodo, and Samwise, and is also copied from the Internet. How does that even happen?

Silly me. I thought reading comprehension was one aspect of higher grades, you know, like the ones you get to qualify for honors programs. Sucks to be you, kid.

Erzsebetvwv: The third one, though? It starts talking about Gandalf, Frodo, and Samwise, and is also copied from the Internet. How does that even happen?

Somebody told him Mark Twain wrote that Gandalf shiat just to troll him. If he hasn't read any of it, he wouldn't know the difference.

Mugato: What kind of a moron has to cheat on an English test?

The story's from California, which is an ESL state.

FishyFred: then you don't get due process rights. You get whatever the school decides.

Schools usually have some handbook that outlines their policies in handling cheating cases. If they make the student sign off on it and then violate it themselves... I don't know, any lawyery folks tell us if that constitutes a breach of contract?

Yeah, deal with the cheaters, but if they really did bypass their own due process policies, it should be revisited for exactly the reasons mentioned a few posts up. Some teachers are paranoid and will occasionally level accusations without any proof. That's why there's usually some sort of review mechanism. Obviously it's more detailed at the college level, but even in K-12, there's got to be a bit beyond, "I think you cheated, so you're a cheater."

Sequoia High School District Superintendent James Lianides wrote in a March 19 letter that the pledge 'clearly states that any incident of cheating or plagiarism will result in the student removal from the class with no exceptions.'

That's nice but entirely dependent on establishing that there was an incident of cheating or plagiarism. Is there some unwritten rule that all administrators are morans?

Andromeda:
`
I confess I really never get parents who defend their cheating spawn. I mean I've never done the whole being a parent thing, but I'd imagine if I ever heard of my kids doing that
I'd whack them on the side of the head for it, not sue the school.
`
And promptly by charged with child abuse.
/farkin nanny state laws
`
miss diminutive:
`
I would have been too afraid to tell my parents
that I'd been caught cheating, much less expect them to sue the school on my behalf. The repercussions at home for cheating would've far outweighed anything the school would have done to me.
`

`
Reposted cause it's true.

mamoru: AverageAmericanGuy: It's not an honor to be in honors classes. It's simply a good way of putting academically equivalent students in the same class so that each ability level is best addressed.

Honors classes tend to be weighted to give a higher GPA, don't they? (at least, they did back when I was in high school; our honors classes were weighted 1.1 and our AP classes were weighted 1.2). That is a reward and a privilege of taking an honors class. He cheated. He does not deserve to have that privilege. He can suck it up and live with his unweighted GPA from the regular classes.

So, the possibilities are that he cheated because it was too tough for him, in which case he shouldn't be in the honors class, or he cheated because he's lazy, in which case he doesn't deserve to be in the honors class.

In that case the solution seems to be to drop the bonus weighting for the student and let him remain in the class.

If he is reading at a college level, he shouldn't be forced to go back to classes that assume a high school (or lower) level.

roothog: The story's from California, which is an ESL state.


I'm just guessing that the language spoken at home in the Bergdorf residience is
English. And Mr. Bergdorf's degree of encouraging dishonesty can be found in many states

roothog: Mugato: What kind of a moron has to cheat on an English test?

The story's from California, which is an ESL state.

There are no Mexicans in Redwood City, not that I've ever seen. There are lots of trailer trash tweakers, though, and at least a few beauty pageants.

/White People Problems

ProfessorOhki: Sequoia High School District Superintendent James Lianides wrote in a March 19 letter that the pledge 'clearly states that any incident of cheating or plagiarism will result in the student removal from the class with no exceptions.'

That's nice but entirely dependent on establishing that there was an incident of cheating or plagiarism. Is there some unwritten rule that all administrators are morans?

technically the rule doesn`t clarify that the student removed from class has to be the one cheating. If ANYONE cheats any student can be removed from the class. Hell, the teacher could cheat then remove a student at random.

It probably should read along the lines of "any incident of cheating or plagiarism by a student will result in that student being removed from the class with no exceptions"

I`m sure the rule is written down somewhere that school heads have to be morons, there is no way they could remember it.

Your son don goofed but no matter how hard you try the consequences will be the same.

TsarTom: Mr Berghouse never denied that his son cheated, and told MercuryNews.com that the sophomore is contrite.

Oh.
Well as long as he is contrite and all.

'He knows it's wrong,' he said. 'You cannot imagine the mental and emotional penalty that has been inflicted upon him.'

The poor feller sure sounds like he's suffered enough. I bet an ice cream cone would cheer him up, Dad.
Hey... extra sprinkles, huh? he's had a hard day.

It's like the guy thinks the punishment is supposed to be hurt feelings.

Mugato: What kind of a moron has to cheat on an English test?

A Frenchman? I don't know. Got nothin.

AverageAmericanGuy: The problem I have with this is that the student has been selected for the program because of his abilities. If he is in the class due to inflated grades attributable to cheating, then he should absolutely be brought back to an appropriate academic level.

However, if he was cheating (as most students are wont to do at some point in their educational career) but is observably capable of handling the course, then he should be allowed to stay instead of being bumped back down to a class which wouldn't serve his academic interest very well.

It's not an honor to be in honors classes. It's simply a good way of putting academically equivalent students in the same class so that each ability level is best addressed.

No.

If you're capable of completing the work, you don't cheat. The alternative is just being a shiatty person, not being lazy. Laziness has zero bearing on taking a test. If you're smart enough to grasp it, there's little to no actual effort involved, so laziness makes a terrible excuse. Kid either cheated his way in because he was frustrated at not having the answers, or he's an asshole six ways from Sunday.

Another option is to allow him to retake the class next semester.

AverageAmericanGuy
Smartest
Funniest
2012-04-27 05:47:47 AM
mamoru: AverageAmericanGuy:
`
So, the possibilities are that he cheated because it was too tough for him, in which case he shouldn't be in the honors class, or he cheated because he's lazy, in which case he doesn't deserve to be in the honors class.
`
In that case the solution seems to be to drop the bonus weighting for the student and let him remain in the class.
If he is reading at a college level, he shouldn't
be forced to go back to classes that assume a
high school (or lower) level
`
So put an * next to his grades or something?
How about holding him to the same standards that every other student in his class is held to?

robmilmel: SpaceyCat: You don't get to change your mind after the fact and try to get things changed to suit you.

Are you familiar with the GOP?

Are you bored with this thread? Well, actually it's pretty boring, and you probably should be. But is that really an excuse to threadjack using one of the most worn-out themes on Fark? Just a suggestion; take your time and be more original.

Wodan11
Another option is to allow him to retake the class next semester.
`
And next semester the school gets sued because somebodies precious snowflake didn't get to take the class since the 'cheater' is taking one of the available spots.
`
What happened to actually being responsible for what you do?
/cheat, lie, steal - no problem, the whole world will magically adjust so that YOUR feelings won't get hurt.

WTF? If your child cheats, you beat your chlid's ass and thank the school for teaching a valuable lesson about consequences. That family's in need of an IRS audit and then some, if they don't think cheating is a big deal and are hiding behind lawyers to get their way.

Bathia_Mapes
`
.... they'd let him learn that his actions
have consequences. Protecting him from the
consequences of his actions isn't doing him any favors.
`
(Snide comment about future Republican in the making)
`
robmilmel: SpaceyCat:
You don't get to change your mind after the fact and try to get things changed to suit you.
Are you familiar with the GOP?
`
Are you bored with this thread? Well, actually
it's pretty boring, and you probably should be.
But is that really an excuse to threadjack using one of the most worn-out themes on Fark? Just a suggestion; take your time and be more original.
`
Comment deleted/point taken.

AverageAmericanGuy: However, if he was cheating (as most students are wont to do at some point in their educational career) ...

What an interesting little insight into the wonder that is you.

a minor can not be a party to a binding contract.

I say let the kid back into the program: it's like planting entertainment seeds. Eventually he'll be fodder on Fark when he sues the pedestrian he runs over while he's texting, or he's caught stealing from his clients, or defrauding his insurer, or killing his wife, or . . .

Union guys, you know what I'm sayin'. Rule 1 is Don't kill the job.

mamoru
`
Off-topic aside... Boatmech, are you reading
Fark using Lynx or something that you can't use the quote button for posts? Because your
formatting is really hard to read. :-/
`
Email is in the profile with basic info.
Short answer is I always have my phone with me / rarely if ever fire-up the lap top.
For a longer answer email me if you have a minute to explain what your seeing vs what I'm seeing.

Erzsebetvwv: My favorite case of cheating in my short career as a teacher so far:

We're reading Huck Finn. A student turns in three of the assigned summaries at one time, several weeks late. Two of them are about Huck Finn, but obviously not in this student's own words, and I quickly find them on the Internet by using Google.

The third one, though? It starts talking about Gandalf, Frodo, and Samwise, and is also copied from the Internet. How does that even happen?

I was friends with a kid in HS who turned in a paper that was supposed to be about the middle ages, but what he copied was actually about middle age. Some people are even lazy at cheating.