Merry X-mas to all and to all a good night.

JuggleGeek: steamingpile: Agnosticism is really on the rise, atheism is kind of arrogant thinking you know for sure god doesn't exist.


The two are not mutually exclusive.

Do I believe god exists? No, therefore I'm an atheist.

Do I claim to know for whether god exists? No, therefore I'm an agnostic.

I don't believe in ghosts, either, but I'm not claiming I can prove ghosts don't exist.

Leprechauns, bigfoot, nessie, ESP, tarot cards, crystal balls - their are a ton of things that I don't believe in, but that doesn't mean I'm claiming to know that these things are false. I simply have no reason to believe in that they are true. Show me some evidence, I'll change my mind.

halfof33: I better keep a list, stupid First Amendment.

Are you one of those people who believes that the first amendment lets you say anything you want without repercussions?

I believe in tarot cards. I have a deck in my desk drawer, and I'm pretty sure they're still in existence.

I don't necessarily believe when I use them they tell me the future, but they're nicer to use than regular cards for solitaire.

The bigger issue is that this guy is just dumb enough to actually say what he thinks in public. How much of this kind of homophobia is going on in college football locker rooms behind closed doors all across the country? Clearly, the fact that this guy put the university address on his form when he spoke meant that he thought there wouldn't be repercussions for his actions. We need to be asking why he thought he could get away with it.

I think I'll just stick with watching hockey. They hockey world recognized that there was too much casual homophobia in their sport so some of the biggest names in the NHL signed on to do You Can Play Project PSAs. Contrast the NHL where a bunch of superstars are speaking up against homophobia in their sport with college football where this ass is actually acting surprised that he's getting flack.

WhyteRaven74: I can only imagine his horror as he watched the butt reaming Nebraska got at Camp Randall last season.

I don't know what you're talking about but is there video? Is it hot? Hmmm....

ongbok: rynthetyn: The bigger issue is that this guy is just dumb enough to actually say what he thinks in public. How much of this kind of homophobia is going on in college football locker rooms behind closed doors all across the country? Clearly, the fact that this guy put the university address on his form when he spoke meant that he thought there wouldn't be repercussions for his actions. We need to be asking why he thought he could get away with it.

I think I'll just stick with watching hockey. They hockey world recognized that there was too much casual homophobia in their sport so some of the biggest names in the NHL signed on to do You Can Play Project PSAs. Contrast the NHL where a bunch of superstars are speaking up against homophobia in their sport with college football where this ass is actually acting surprised that he's getting flack.

I said it in another thread, people like this, the bigots, whether they be anti gay or racist, will always say bigoted type of stuff around people that they think are like them, and never think what they say will get out. This is how this type of stuff always get leaked, they say something around a person who they think shares the same views as them because they are the same color, ethnicity, religion, or whatever, then that person is a decent person and gets offended, and you know what happens after that. It happens with bigots of all colors, ethnicity, and religions.

Oh, no doubt. I've heard some incredibly racist stuff from people who thought that my white skin meant I was a safe audience. And when I objected, it couldn't possibly be that they were wrong, no, it's always just that I'm racist against white people. Ditto with the ridiculously homophobic stuff that some of my relatives would post on my facebook before I came out--but I'm just supposed to forget all of the incredibly horrible stuff they said just because they won't say it to me directly anymore.

But no matter what, it's never ever their fault for being horrible bigots, it's always the other person's fault for objecting, because the objection means that you're persecuting them and denying them the right to speak.

rynthetyn: The bigger issue is that this guy is just dumb enough to actually say what he thinks in public. How much of this kind of homophobia is going on in college football locker rooms behind closed doors all across the country? Clearly, the fact that this guy put the university address on his form when he spoke meant that he thought there wouldn't be repercussions for his actions. We need to be asking why he thought he could get away with it.

I think I'll just stick with watching hockey. They hockey world recognized that there was too much casual homophobia in their sport so some of the biggest names in the NHL signed on to do You Can Play Project PSAs. Contrast the NHL where a bunch of superstars are speaking up against homophobia in their sport with college football where this ass is actually acting surprised that he's getting flack.

I said this earlier. Sure, this douche can say what he wants on his own time; but the bigger problem is that his JOB touches so many other people who now need to be monitored to make sure he's not subtly encouraging his religious/personal feelings despite everyone's insistence that "your personal beliefs are your own blah blah."

Think of it like this: I am personally extremely liberal and highly moral. It would be foolish and counterproductive for me to take a job in, say, a conservative legal firm where I was required to consider the best interests of my firm ahead of the interests of my clients; and to put profits ahead of social good. Some people can do that; I can't. Nor could I keep from interjecting my personal beliefs and opinions into my work. It is better for everyone if I don't work in such a law firm, but instead work in a more liberal public interest firm.

This guy was hired to coach football. As such, he may have to deal with gay football players, players who are not Christian or don't have a "relation with Jesus" as he would like. He obviously cannot keep from interjecting his personal beliefs and opinions into his work; so WHETHER OR NOT he is entitled to his opinions--which he is--this may not be the best place of employment for him or for the students under his care.

Gyrfalcon: rynthetyn: The bigger issue is that this guy is just dumb enough to actually say what he thinks in public. How much of this kind of homophobia is going on in college football locker rooms behind closed doors all across the country? Clearly, the fact that this guy put the university address on his form when he spoke meant that he thought there wouldn't be repercussions for his actions. We need to be asking why he thought he could get away with it.

I think I'll just stick with watching hockey. They hockey world recognized that there was too much casual homophobia in their sport so some of the biggest names in the NHL signed on to do You Can Play Project PSAs. Contrast the NHL where a bunch of superstars are speaking up against homophobia in their sport with college football where this ass is actually acting surprised that he's getting flack.

I said this earlier. Sure, this douche can say what he wants on his own time; but the bigger problem is that his JOB touches so many other people who now need to be monitored to make sure he's not subtly encouraging his religious/personal feelings despite everyone's insistence that "your personal beliefs are your own blah blah."

Think of it like this: I am personally extremely liberal and highly moral. It would be foolish and counterproductive for me to take a job in, say, a conservative legal firm where I was required to consider the best interests of my firm ahead of the interests of my clients; and to put profits ahead of social good. Some people can do that; I can't. Nor could I keep from interjecting my personal beliefs and opinions into my work. It is better for everyone if I don't work in such a law firm, but instead work in a more liberal public interest firm.

This guy was hired to coach football. As such, he may have to deal with gay football players, players who are not Christian or don't have a "relation with Jesus" as he would like. He obviously cannot keep from interjecting his personal beliefs and opinions into h ...

I think this is an example of a larger problem in college football and that is the way that certain major college coaches have been given free reign to express their religious beliefs as though they are representatives of the university. At a private school fine, that's between you and the board of trustees, but when you're a coach at a public institution you're a representative of the state and the state can't take a position on religion. Coaches at state schools have been getting away with blurring the lines, with pressuring players into participating in religious activities, with speaking about their faith without making a distinction between themselves and the school for pretty much forever, and the schools have allowed it because it helps build the coaching mythos. I can't count how many times I heard the entire Florida State football program lauded because Bobby Bowden "is a good Christian coach."

Major college football programs are their coaches, and the universities didn't give a flip that they were allowing their coaches to speak in the university's name to endorse religion. It's only an issue now because this guy did what he'd been getting away with all along, but in the process he said some horribly bigoted things. Schools really need to take a long hard look at reigning in their coaches and making sure that they make a clear distinction between their own personal speech on their own private time and when they're speaking on behalf of the school.

And this guy should get shiatcanned for showing that he's incapable of separating his personal beliefs from his public coaching persona. You're right, the school is going to have to be constantly checking up on him to make sure that he's not violating the non-discrimination policy and that he's not creating a hostile environment for any gay athlete that might be on the team (and that probably went even deeper into the closet after that stunt).

If he was not explicitly representing the school when the remarks in question were made, the school probably shouldn't entertain the idea of firing him. Unless, of course, he was doing something illegal like making a direct threat against someone or inciting a felony.

That said, the school should also incorporate top-grading hiring practices so that they don't get stuck with an ignorant, bigoted tool like this again. Something like measure twice, cut once. You have to do a little bit of legwork when you bring someone into your organization.

9beers: FlashHarry: and people wonder why atheism is on the rise.

I'm an Atheist and not a huge fan of gays, what's your point?

so if not religion, then what is your homophobia rooted in?

my point is, he was using religion to justify institutional discrimination against a group of people. as an atheist, this disgusts me.