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(The New York Times)   Old and busted: Late night debt collection calls. New Hotness: Debt collectors in emergency rooms. Why, yes- there IS a lawsuit already pending   (nytimes.com) divider line 145
    More: Sick, emergency rooms, collection agency, hospital system, American Hospital Association, consumer advocacy, debt settlement, medical debts, health information  
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15604 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Apr 2012 at 4:43 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Archived thread
2012-04-26 02:50:06 PM
17 votes:
America: Where a debt collector has more rights to hospital visitation than gay people.
2012-04-26 04:56:46 PM
8 votes:
Put health care out of range of the poor and working class. Call the system every other first world country has "libtard soshlist Muslim" health care that will lead to Trotsky coming back from the grave to put infants on spikes on the white house lawn. Tell the working poor to "just go to the ER". Bill the living sh*t out of them anyway and pester them to an early grave as part of your health care philosophy. Yeah, that's not a profit driven cash cow that only serves wealth. Nope. Not one bit.
2012-04-26 03:01:07 PM
8 votes:

cman: America: Where its patriotic to not pay one's debts


Will you give it a rest? The average person can't pay a goddamn $70,000 medical bill when they need emergency surgery and are in the ICU for a few days. That doesn't mean they're a deadbeat.

I've seen you around. You're not this dumb so just knock it off, come on.
2012-04-26 04:59:43 PM
7 votes:

Nabb1: I'm betting this is aimed at people who come into the ER for every damned thing under the sun, like a cold or a hangnail, and not people with legitimate emergencies. I'm not advocating the practice, but I can see where they'd have a problem with repeat deadbeat customers abusing the availability of services.


The people you're condemning as "repeat deadbeat customers" are those who--like myself--lack both basic insurance and a job. If I need emergency treatment, I go to the ER, since I can't go anywhere else. When I get a bill, I can't pay it in a timely fashion, and off it goes to the collector. If I can't pay, I can't pay--and if I need care again, where am I supposed to go? A different hospital? Wait to treat this week's broken leg till last year's pneumonia is paid off?

I'm sorry if you feel that my need for care is "abusing the services" but I'm unable to get health insurance due to that pesky preexisting condition clause. I'll try to be born healthy next go-around.
2012-04-26 02:52:50 PM
7 votes:
America: Where debt collection is more important than reasonably priced medical care.
2012-04-26 03:00:06 PM
6 votes:

cman: America: Where its patriotic to not pay one's debts


As demonstrated by the presidency of Ronald Reagan.
2012-04-26 02:59:59 PM
6 votes:
America: Where only the rich deserve to live.
2012-04-26 02:36:03 PM
6 votes:
Or maybe enact health care/insurance reform OH WAIT TRIED THAT, SOCIALISM
2012-04-26 06:30:47 PM
5 votes:
Insurance companies have entire floors, in large buildings, that are full of people who work tirelessly to find a way not pay what they said they would pay to their insured. And nobody calls them deadbeats.
2012-04-26 05:11:01 PM
5 votes:
Fark: where being American means you should have to die in the streets if you are unable to afford our overpriced health care. I have insurance. I pay my taxes. I am not in debt. I would happily pay more taxes if it meant this crap would no longer happen to my fellow man.
2012-04-26 05:07:47 PM
5 votes:

Nana's Vibrator: What about late night debt collection calls to your house for people you're related to but live 100 miles away? Or people you're not even related to and don't even know? Because that's what I keep getting.


There is no reason to let debt collectors get away with stuff like this.

I can almost guarantee you can get them to violate the FDCPA after you have your lawyer send them a letter telling them to stop contacting you. These idiots can't help themselves. Most collections agencies knowingly violate the FDCPA because they know they can get away with it.

I've made thousands of dollars in the last few years suing these morons, and you can too.

1) Get a lawyer.

2) Have the lawyer fax them a letter telling them not to contact you anymore.

3) Wait until they inevitably contact you anyway because they're either sleazeballs or because the fax machine is broken in whatever storage unit they're running their fly-by-night operation out of.

4) Win a settlement because they don't want to be bothered with fighting you in court.

5) Repeat.

Seriously. It's like a license to print money.
2012-04-26 06:17:43 PM
4 votes:

cookiefleck: Ima say something that isn't gonna be popular... people in debt are given more rights than the people they owe money to. Despite what either candidate says. These people are called "professional debtors". You can give them two, three, months to get their finances in order, but they won't.



This is because, once upon a time in America, people's rights were considered more important than money.
2012-04-26 07:13:12 PM
3 votes:

Silly Jesus: Do people truly believe that, by virtue of our very existence, we are entitled to a portion of the life of another?


No.

We are, however - and this may cause excessive harrumphing - obliged to aide and give comfort to our fellow human beings, should we wish to retain the title.

Individual lives end. It's a fatal condition. Nobody wins.

What we bring to the table in between check in and check out that contributes to the quality of that precious gift is it's very raison d'être. If you just brought a fork and a deep seated need to piss and moan about the menu, you lost the plot.
2012-04-26 06:05:13 PM
3 votes:
Stories like this just depress the crap out of me. You under 40's don't even know what a great country this once was, and how far it has fallen.

Neither of my parents are college grads, they both worked blue collar type jobs. Back in 1973, when my parents bought their first house, they were making a combined weekly salary of $520....adjusted for inflation that would be about $2,700 a week in today's money (I, a college grad, never managed to make more than half that). They both also had health insurance through their respective employers....where one insurance left off, another would pick up. They paid $38,000 for their first house, and they put down $18K as down payment. Mortgage, not counting taxes/insurance, was $215 per month.

My parents weren't any kind of anomaly either. I know a man who is a Vietnam War vet. After he got out of the Army, he used his GI Bill benefits to take a training course in welding. A year out of the Army (1968), he got a job as a welder working in construction for $10/hr plus benefits.....that works out to about $50/hr in today's money. By the time he was 26, he was married, owned his own home, two cars, and was raising two kids. His wife stayed home with the kids until they were old enough to go school.

Starting about 1980, things started to slowly deteriorate for people like my parents, and the rest of the bottom 80%.....and things are still going down hill today.

You all should check out this movie. Inside Job

If you can watch this movie, and not be enraged, you are either an idiot, or a member of the 1%,
2012-04-26 05:54:07 PM
3 votes:

pippi longstocking: This country is no longer a developed nation, it has become practically impossible to maintain a "middle-class" life-style. Unless you call being indebted literally for the rest of your life by housing, medical, education, and transportation costs the "lucky" middle-class oppose to the "poor" that don't have the credit.


The wealthy have been dismantling this brief and spotty hiccup of history wherein there were people who weren't either feudal lords or coughing, bent backed serfs for quite a few decades, now. Thank you for noticing. Now if we can just get everybody to put down the flag they were handed and told to feel privileged to hold high - until the whip lands on THEIR backs - maybe we can put a wrench in the monkey. Not worshiping avarice, violence and German cars would be a good start.
2012-04-26 05:15:08 PM
3 votes:

King Something: America: The best health care in the world, but only if you can afford it.


I'd argue that would make it the worst healthcare system in the world.
2012-04-26 05:15:02 PM
3 votes:

Moonfisher: Fark: where being American means you should have to die in the streets if you are unable to afford our overpriced health care. I have insurance. I pay my taxes. I am not in debt. I would happily pay more taxes if it meant this crap would no longer happen to my fellow man.


And that. Charlie Brown, is what money is for to begin with. We invented it to offer liquidity so that the needs extant in the support of the quality of life would be met with expediency. It wasn't originally designed to be a bludgeon with which the wealthy could disenfranchise, extort and abuse the working class and poor.
2012-04-26 05:12:19 PM
3 votes:

Evil Mackerel: EdNortonsTwin: The collectors that work for the hospital are easy to spot - they are in business attire moving among the care providers; often in black; way over dressed.

I remember being on the edge of passing out as I was admitted and I had one of those jagoffs grilling me, and grabbing for my back-pack because they thought my check-book might be in there. If I wasn't half keeling over I would have hit the biatch with said back pack.

I have great medical insurance and she knew it - she was after the $300 patient fee for being admitted.

Its a wonder the collecters don't get shot more often.


I worked as a phone collector for a year after college. Pretty much hated it. I did get threatened by a thug from Inglewood because I tried to set-up a payment plan with him to pay off his jewelry loans. The agency i worked for was pretty legit.. It's just a sad business really. I suppose it takes a special kind of person to buy up debt and grind people for payment. Mixed feelings about it. I knew an attorney/banker/venture capitalist/government agent who was quite wealthy who enjoyed the business. His wife left him and his 15 yo kid committed suicide. Not a fun person to be around.

CSB
2012-04-26 05:01:52 PM
3 votes:
I've been to the ER a few times over my life, and hadn't seen this fun until it was at a local catholic hospital here in Ohio to which I had no debts. Before I got to see a nurse or doctor, someone always came in pushing a cart with a credit card reader on it. It was magic how quickly a nurse or doctor came in to treat you immediately after this person had payment details. Those payment carts are probably spreading MRSA better than any orderly with unwashed hands.
2012-04-26 04:59:18 PM
3 votes:

KrispyKritter: Aarontology: cman: My apologies, It constantly slips my mind that emotion does not travel well over the internet. It was satire, nothing else, as I was showing the posters above me that their "America:" statements were overly simplistic and wrong.

What's wrong or simplistic about it?

In many, many places a gay person wouldn't be allowed to visit his or her partner whereas a debt collector would have that right.

not being allowed to visit in hospital may apply to many people who do not claim to be a direct relative. you simply tell them you are the patients brother, uncle, some sort of direct relative. it is no ones business if you are a mans gay sex partner, which would be a slightly unusual thing to say at the reception desk to begin with.


Is that how you describe your wife, " This is my heterosexual sex partner"? Relationships are not based on sex, but on love, commitment and sharing your lives together.

And this article ought to passed on to every righttard who says "We don't need a healthcare bill, when you can get treated at any emergency room for free!"
2012-04-26 03:31:35 PM
3 votes:

Bathia_Mapes:
True, but at least some of these people have 1)chronic health problems & 2)can't afford health insurance and are forced to use the ER as their primary care physician since the ER can't legally turn them away.


And that's why I'm unsure of how the new healthcare system will fix this though. If we now are required to have insurance, but you can't afford it, and you can't afford the penalties, then what do you do? Nothing has been fixed.

Single-payer really is about the only way to go about it if you are going to mandate insurance.
2012-04-26 03:24:40 PM
3 votes:
I'm betting this is aimed at people who come into the ER for every damned thing under the sun, like a cold or a hangnail, and not people with legitimate emergencies. I'm not advocating the practice, but I can see where they'd have a problem with repeat deadbeat customers abusing the availability of services.
2012-04-26 03:08:04 PM
3 votes:

cman: My apologies, It constantly slips my mind that emotion does not travel well over the internet. It was satire, nothing else, as I was showing the posters above me that their "America:" statements were overly simplistic and wrong.


What's wrong or simplistic about it?

In many, many places a gay person wouldn't be allowed to visit his or her partner whereas a debt collector would have that right.
2012-04-27 01:31:20 AM
2 votes:

Nabb1: I'm betting this is aimed at people who come into the ER for every damned thing under the sun, like a cold or a hangnail, and not people with legitimate emergencies. I'm not advocating the practice, but I can see where they'd have a problem with repeat deadbeat customers abusing the availability of services.


Here's the problem with that:

There's a certain subset of the population, let's just call them "professional failures" who stubbornly continue to exist in spite of whatever utopian ideals are currently in vogue. I'm talking the people who just simply are not adults in a meaningful sense, who flounder through each year, and are fundamentally spectators to their own lives, not actively engaged in any meaningful way.

By and large, it is this group of people who run up the vast majority of avoidable emergency medical expenses.

The problem is, our whole system is based around trying to offer incentives and disincentives to the average person, to steer them in the proper path. So it completely breaks down when someone is so farked up the traditional disincentives no longer apply.

That's why we force independent contractors to sell all their tools and go into bankruptcy when their wives get cancer (shoulda told your dreams to fark off and kept kissing corporate ass, pal!).

But it breaks down when a person is so far from stable that normal disincentives fail to apply. How can you garnish negative income?

So while I can understand the motivation of trying to have some come-to-Jesus meetings with these 5%ers, good luck getting blood from that farking stone, pal. What, are you gonna take 10% of their food stamps?

So to justify the continued existence of these positions, they are going to have to go after the low-hanging fruit. People who actually have any means to pay. Which means the independent contractors, people going through divorces or other temporary extingencies, etc.

And hey, with any luck, dinging them for thousands of dollars might just be the final straw that sends them into a death spiral of poverty and debt. Yay, capitalism!

Tl;dr: however well-intentioned, its gonna end up farking over the folks who are still trying, not the folks who have just given up on life.
2012-04-26 09:53:31 PM
2 votes:
what the hell?

Shucky....ducky?

Oh. I got it now.

Shucky Jesus is a mammon worshipper and probably a Randroid as well. That explains his pay up or die souk mentality.
2012-04-26 09:29:35 PM
2 votes:

Silly Jesus: Mitch Taylor's Bro: Silly Jesus: Or, alternatively, they could be stopped from taking stealing it.

"...I will remember that I remain a member of society with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.

If I do not violate this oath, may I enjoy life and art, be respected while I live and remembered with affection thereafter.

May I always act so as to preserve the finest traditions of my calling and may I long experience the joy of healing those who seek my help.*"

* As long as they can afford it.

You can't eat good will.


Then don't take the damn oath.
2012-04-26 09:00:23 PM
2 votes:
In the last month I've had a visit to Accident & Emergency, 6 blood tests, a visit to a GP, an ultrasound, a visit to a nurse practitioner, and I'm booked in for a CT scan next week.

So far, I've been charged £0.00. I will be charged £0.00.

What will it take you Americans to realise a nationalised health care system isn't communism, it's common SENSE? Maybe my taxes are a bit higher than yours, but so what? I live in a nice warm house, I eat good food, I have plenty of toys and entertainment, I can take holidays to lots of nice places, and I don't ever have to worry that I'll bankrupt myself if I get hurt or fall ill. If I ever have a problem, I pick up the phone and make an appointment with the doctor straight away and they'll see me within the week. If it's really urgent, I can phone up early in the morning and get seen in about 3 hours.

My taxes pay for low-income and unemployed folks, the mentally ill, and drug addicts (some might say that last one belongs in the third category anyway) to get the same standard of care I do. Should I care? Nope. Makes no difference to me. Heck, I'm happy they're healthy.

The last time I was in the US, visiting at friends' homes (a few normal, middle-class and one home owned by some millionaires), I was amazed at the amount of very pleasant but completely pointless junk you guys have. A TV in every room (including the bathroom in that one case). 10 pillows and 2 duvets on each bed. Stupid little nozzles up the sides of the shower. Frigging bagel toasters - do your ovens not have grills (or broilers or whatever the fark you call them)? A special little hose for washing dishes and a dishwasher right beside the sink anyway. You'd seriously gamble going bankrupt and being flung out of your homes just so you can have some extra disposable income for crap like that? Good luck with that.

Me, I think having to get (and having to kiss ass to keep) a job that includes health insurance and dental as a benefit is just another way for the overlords to keep you in line. YMMV.

/Oh yeah, I've still got plenty of money to pay the dentist too (so some poor folks can get it for free).
//Death panels? Pfff! No extreme measures please.
///I don't care about slashies - I can get 'em stitched for free!
2012-04-26 08:30:17 PM
2 votes:
Don't like it? Reform your damn fool healthcare system. Forget insurance, pay for it through taxation. Like just about every other first world nation on the planet has done for years. Or you could continue to believe that any form of socialism is pure evil. Because you guys are right and the rest of the first world is obviously clueless and wrong.
2012-04-26 08:23:14 PM
2 votes:
I would not like to observe Silly Jesus getting into a nasty car accident where his wallet goes flying whee into the ditch utterly unobserved, and then listen to how nobly he complains about how very crass and rude he is to be making a claim upon the time of the doctor.

No, I would not enjoy that at all.
2012-04-26 07:51:30 PM
2 votes:

Silly Jesus: insertsnarkyusername: Silly Jesus: I think that a lot of people don't know where healthcare comes from. They don't see it as a commodity. Yes, the system is broken, but a great deal of people, with emergencies and non-emergencies, don't see the cost of their treatment as a real thing. They think that "oh well, I can't pay" just makes it all go away and the hospital continues on unscathed. You just received a good/service for free, that means that someone just worked for you for free. At some point people can't work for free anymore.

And who is to say that you are entitled to the uncompensated labor of another man/woman to begin with? By virtue of you being born are you automatically entitled to whatever portion of another man/woman's life that it takes to keep you in good health?

On the one hand I can't see turning someone away that truly needs help...
BUT
I also can't see saying "hey, you, come here and give me a portion of your life, I am entitled to it."

Do people truly believe that, by virtue of our very existence, we are entitled to a portion of the life of another?

Last time I went to the ER 5 stitches and and a shot of novocain cost me 600 dollars. This isn't even mentioning the fact that after the injection I waited for 2 hours for a doctor to come back. When she did I was told I could have another but it'd be about another hour and she didn't know when she'd be back. Next time I'm coming in without ID and giving fake info. Start making prices approaching something reasonable and I'll agree with you.

/45 minutes of labor involved, 15 minutes for the doc and 15 minutes each for 2 people who may have or may not have been nurses to grill me about payment info until I started shouting at them to sew my farking hand up and showing them the visible bone.

Generally if someone does not like the price of a good or service, they don't get said good or service. You, on the other hand, have stated that you will not only demand the time and services of these ...



The way to avoid such moral conundrums is to approach health care as a basic human right and go from there. Most developed nations do this.
2012-04-26 07:30:22 PM
2 votes:
Silly Jesus 2012-04-26 07:08:35 PM

I also can't see saying "hey, you, come here and give me a portion of your life, I am entitled to it."

Do people truly believe that, by virtue of our very existence, we are entitled to a portion of the life of another?


Do you have a family?
2012-04-26 07:25:20 PM
2 votes:

CUZN_Ovoids: Hey, can we have a lottery to win 100% comprehensive insurance coverage for life? The funds not paid out could help pay the bills of the un-insured.

/Worked so well for schools right...


I've got a better idea! How about instead of taking a bunch of people's money and using it to give one person health care why don't you take some of everyone's money and give everyone health care?
2012-04-26 06:48:58 PM
2 votes:

cookiefleck: Okay, so they have bills other than medical.. those bills should be waived? How much generosity should be given? Just waive all bills til the person gets better again?


The Jews used to have Jubilee. It was a shaking of the economic etch a sketch. And they were smart. Because it rebooted the economy and got money flowing again. ALL money is debt, these days, so why bother. Just keep racking those beads down that metal rod until the guy you sold three aspirins and gave a band-aid to has to mow your lawn for the rest of his life. I mean, that means you WIN, doesn't it?
2012-04-26 06:32:00 PM
2 votes:
I'm pretty sure they have more than just "access." I'm pretty sure that these folks run the show now.

A few years back, girlfriend got appendicitis. We were both young, working through college, from low-income families, so neither of us had insurance. A cheap medical clinic told her she was on her period, and then she passed out for about 2 days. When she woke up, her appendix had burst and gone septic, it was clear it was serious, so we went to the ER.

They asked for payment up front, of course. When we couldn't, they struck us in the waiting room for about 15 hours. At one point, they asked me to move her (she passed out) to the bathroom so she wouldn't be in the way.

Once they finally admitted us, they put us in a room and ignored us for 20 more hours. Finally, they did a laparascopic appendectomy and discharged her. Those are a cheaper method used for mild appendicitis--when someone has gone septic for 3 days it's basically missing the point.

So, of course, a few days later, she's passing out turning yellow, so we go to a new hospital. They give her some painkillers and discharge her. So we go to another. That one finally admits us (after another similar process), and gives her the correct surgery. They botch it.

So it's back to ER-hopping to correct the mistakes of that surgery. Then months of recovery. All told, she gets in the hole a few hundred thousand dollars. Basically, the annual interest was more than she had any hope of making in a year, so we handled the debt by ignoring the phone or the mail.

We tried to sue, but most of the places we went to lost the relevant medical records that would've given us a shot , and anyway lawyers don't like to take cases that don't involve death or permanent disability because the payout is so much less (to them, I assume. To us, recouping our costs would've been great).

So, that's my rant. Well, maybe it's not. Unrelated, but to get it off my chest, it's 6 years later and she got diagnosed with MS. FOr 90 days of the medication she needs (and will need for the rest of her life) it costs $12,000. We have insurance now, but they want her to pay the 12k up front every 90 days and then reimburse her. We're both out of college now, and are lucky enough to be able to pull it off, but that's just f'ed up.

...

So yeah, when people talk about parasites on the healthcare system, I guess we're them. It occured to me that if I got MS instead of her, at that cost for the medication, I'd be a net loss to society (I teach, so I make less than her). Society would actually be better off if I died. I'd be one of the people that at presidential debates the Republicans shout should kill themselves. So yeah, something to think about.
2012-04-26 05:47:34 PM
2 votes:
This country is no longer a developed nation, it has become practically impossible to maintain a "middle-class" life-style. Unless you call being indebted literally for the rest of your life by housing, medical, education, and transportation costs the "lucky" middle-class oppose to the "poor" that don't have the credit.
2012-04-26 05:45:59 PM
2 votes:
Folks?

Debt is the only industry left.

Selling people's privacy is an industry. Dope, both ends of the game, is an industry. Suffering is an industry. Using money to leverage property away from it's owners is an industry. Incarceration is an industry. Writing people tickets for doing 37 in a 35 is an industry. Welcome to the post "they moved he game board overseas", service economy. Please peck at the flesh of the person seated nest to you as he pecks at yours. It's he new commerce.

Anybody get their trickle down, yet?
2012-04-26 05:16:14 PM
2 votes:
Okay, come on now. This is the sort of inhumanity that aging Waffen SS officers and Argentinean Death Squad troopers would draw the line at.

And I also call bullsh*t as well. There's no way a collection agency goon can just waltz right into an emergency room and demand payment up front or the patient will be forced to bleed to death. Emergency rooms are REQUIRED BY LAW to provide care first and then work out the details about payment later.

If I went to visit a relative in the hospital and saw some collection agency punk leaning over the bed and bullying them to cough up money, the nurses would find that inhuman bastard limping out of the room with his hands cupped over his bleeding groin area.
2012-04-26 05:15:48 PM
2 votes:
It boggles the mind that anyone that doesn't stand to profit from the current system would defend it. Like some sort of deranged Stockholm Syndrome.
2012-04-26 05:06:46 PM
2 votes:

kronicfeld: cman: Do you know what the best way is to avoid a debt collector?

Pay your bills?


You obviously haven't experienced what debt collectors will do the friends and family members of debtors and what they will do to people who have an address or phone number that once belonged to a debtor.
2012-04-26 05:03:41 PM
2 votes:
"We have a great track record of helping hospitals enhance their quality of care."

That's a straight up farking lie.
2012-04-26 05:02:11 PM
2 votes:
Maybe I'm out of line here, but if my wife (who is soon to give birth to our daughter) were to go to the ER in labor and someone said "I'll need you to write a check before we can see you.", the first thing I'm going to do is get myself arrested for beating the shiat out of that smarmy a-hole. When someone has a medical emergency, they have a medical emergency. This is absolute horseshiat.
2012-04-26 04:56:05 PM
2 votes:

Aarontology: cman: My apologies, It constantly slips my mind that emotion does not travel well over the internet. It was satire, nothing else, as I was showing the posters above me that their "America:" statements were overly simplistic and wrong.

What's wrong or simplistic about it?

In many, many places a gay person wouldn't be allowed to visit his or her partner whereas a debt collector would have that right.


not being allowed to visit in hospital may apply to many people who do not claim to be a direct relative. you simply tell them you are the patients brother, uncle, some sort of direct relative. it is no ones business if you are a mans gay sex partner, which would be a slightly unusual thing to say at the reception desk to begin with.
2012-04-26 04:46:22 PM
2 votes:
America: The best health care in the world, but only if you can afford it.
2012-04-26 04:36:07 PM
2 votes:

kidgenius: True.

But, there are the cases mentioned where people already have outstanding/past due accounts and are coming back for more care. If I'm the hospital, I would be pissed that I have to give care to this person that has already shown that they can't or won't pay for the thousands of dollars of service I'm about to give them.


Wouldn't be a problem if hospitals weren't for-profit, now would it.
2012-04-26 03:40:32 PM
2 votes:

cman: My apologies, It constantly slips my mind that emotion does not travel well over the internet. It was satire, nothing else, as I was showing the posters above me that their "America:" statements were overly simplistic and wrong.


This is why I said

Elandriel: ...You're not this dumb...

Actual retractions set you miles apart and it's nice to at least have somewhat reasoned discourse with someone that doesn't necessarily think the same way.
2012-04-26 03:27:17 PM
2 votes:

kidgenius: Elandriel: cman: America: Where its patriotic to not pay one's debts

Will you give it a rest? The average person can't pay a goddamn $70,000 medical bill when they need emergency surgery and are in the ICU for a few days. That doesn't mean they're a deadbeat.

True.

But, there are the cases mentioned where people already have outstanding/past due accounts and are coming back for more care. If I'm the hospital, I would be pissed that I have to give care to this person that has already shown that they can't or won't pay for the thousands of dollars of service I'm about to give them.


True, but at least some of these people have 1)chronic health problems & 2)can't afford health insurance and are forced to use the ER as their primary care physician since the ER can't legally turn them away.
2012-04-26 02:54:48 PM
2 votes:
America: Where its patriotic to not pay one's debts
2012-04-26 02:36:08 PM
2 votes:
I'd fake a spasm and "accidentally" fling blood into their mouths, and then tell them I had aids.
2012-04-27 03:12:32 AM
1 votes:
All I can say is if I took one of my children to an ER, regardless of whether or not I owed that hospital a debt, and some douchebag debt collector interfered with my child getting the care they needed, then that debt collector would learn just what it's like to be a patient in that hospital.
2012-04-26 10:29:19 PM
1 votes:

Silly Jesus: Ghurni: Silly Jesus: Mitch Taylor's Bro: Silly Jesus: Or, alternatively, they could be stopped from taking stealing it.

"...I will remember that I remain a member of society with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.

If I do not violate this oath, may I enjoy life and art, be respected while I live and remembered with affection thereafter.

May I always act so as to preserve the finest traditions of my calling and may I long experience the joy of healing those who seek my help.*"

* As long as they can afford it.

You can't eat good will.

Then don't take the damn oath.

So doctors, nurses etc. should work for free and that's what the oath advocates?


The oath quite clearly does not advocate, in specific or in general, that doctors and nurses should work for free. You're not that obtuse, so stop playing like you are.

But neither does "a right to life-saving, emergency healthcare equate to "selfishly placing demands on a doctor's/nurse's time/expertise," as you are so eager to imply. The oath requires that a medical professional use their expertise in support of life, whether "...sound of mind and body..." or "...infirm." Beyond the importance of that simple charge, the proper measure of a society ought to be the manner in which they treat their lowest members.

You can say "I do not believe that people in our society have a right to life-saving medical treatment." That's fine. But to do so, you must also be willing to say, "It matters not to me whether children starve and die in the streets." Further, you must not complain when it happens to you.

So which is it to be?
2012-04-26 10:24:42 PM
1 votes:
It IS tuna time.
2012-04-26 10:16:00 PM
1 votes:

Silly Jesus: Ghurni: Silly Jesus: Mitch Taylor's Bro: Silly Jesus: Or, alternatively, they could be stopped from taking stealing it.

"...I will remember that I remain a member of society with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.

If I do not violate this oath, may I enjoy life and art, be respected while I live and remembered with affection thereafter.

May I always act so as to preserve the finest traditions of my calling and may I long experience the joy of healing those who seek my help.*"

* As long as they can afford it.

You can't eat good will.

Then don't take the damn oath.

So doctors, nurses etc. should work for free and that's what the oath advocates?


Doctors and nurses don't work for free in the US. That's a nonsensical argument. I mean, some may because they volunteer to do so, but most doctors and nurses make a reasonably good living, whether or not the patient they see can pay. If they work for a hospital, they're on salary and it does not matter whether the patient can pay up front or ever. The doctors and nurses do what they have to do. It's a tough living for a lot of years, but there is nothing in the oath that says, "first, do check the patient can pay."

And you know that, you troll.
2012-04-26 10:11:31 PM
1 votes:
Bathia_Mapes 2012-04-26 10:10:05 PM

Kittypie070: Bathia_Mapes 2012-04-26 10:00:07 PM

Kittypie070: She IS a black cat.

Thus, perhaps, already Republican and self-hating?

Your cat is Herman Cain? :-D

Yeah, she sexually harasses herself too :P


Bad kitty! No tuna for you.


:O
2012-04-26 10:08:42 PM
1 votes:
Bathia_Mapes 2012-04-26 10:00:07 PM

Kittypie070: She IS a black cat.

Thus, perhaps, already Republican and self-hating?


Your cat is Herman Cain? :-D


Yeah, she sexually harasses herself too :P
2012-04-26 10:08:36 PM
1 votes:

buckler: Guess I got damned lucky with my cardiologist. After a cardiac stress test, the diagnostician noted something really weird in my EKG, and referred me to a cardiologist. He diagnosed coronary artery disease, and recommended stent placement. I told him "Doctor, I need to be frank with you. I have no insurance, no savings of any import, and few assets. I simply can't afford to do this."

He said "I can't afford to have you die under my care. I will perform the procedure, and we can talk about payment later."

I underwent the procedure, and immediately felt twenty years younger. I never got a bill, and when I called to ask him, he told me not to worry about it until I was in a position to do so. I'm guessing that happens in perhaps one in a brazillion cases. That man is a farking saint. He gave me my life back. I can't imagine being hounded by a debt collector on death's door.


Cool story, Bro.

Seriously, that's Cool. If only more Doctors were like that.
2012-04-26 10:05:09 PM
1 votes:
Guess I got damned lucky with my cardiologist. After a cardiac stress test, the diagnostician noted something really weird in my EKG, and referred me to a cardiologist. He diagnosed coronary artery disease, and recommended stent placement. I told him "Doctor, I need to be frank with you. I have no insurance, no savings of any import, and few assets. I simply can't afford to do this."

He said "I can't afford to have you die under my care. I will perform the procedure, and we can talk about payment later."

I underwent the procedure, and immediately felt twenty years younger. I never got a bill, and when I called to ask him, he told me not to worry about it until I was in a position to do so. I'm guessing that happens in perhaps one in a brazillion cases. That man is a farking saint. He gave me my life back. I can't imagine being hounded by a debt collector on death's door.
2012-04-26 10:00:07 PM
1 votes:

Kittypie070: She IS a black cat.

Thus, perhaps, already Republican and self-hating?


You're cat is Herman Cain? :-D
2012-04-26 09:56:55 PM
1 votes:
*hugs Indubitably*

No one is saying do not pay your hospital bills.

The dispute is about debt collectors invading hospitals and making DEMANDS and issuing threats against people who are in need of medical care.
2012-04-26 09:48:02 PM
1 votes:
Your country blows.
2012-04-26 09:47:37 PM
1 votes:
She IS a black cat.

Thus, perhaps, already Republican and self-hating?
2012-04-26 09:35:06 PM
1 votes:
Indubitably 2012-04-26 09:24:43 PM

Kittypie070: *sigh*

[dispirited]


why?



I just HAD to try to make a point about about wasting my time caring for a small creature that returned me no monetary profit.

How dare my parasitic cat make such vile and unprofitable claims on my time.
2012-04-26 09:18:28 PM
1 votes:
*sigh*

[dispirited]
2012-04-26 09:13:07 PM
1 votes:
Sickening.
2012-04-26 09:11:29 PM
1 votes:
all so mitt romney can build a garage with an elevator in it.
2012-04-26 09:10:49 PM
1 votes:

Silly Jesus: Or, alternatively, they could be stopped from taking stealing it.


"...I will remember that I remain a member of society with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.

If I do not violate this oath, may I enjoy life and art, be respected while I live and remembered with affection thereafter.

May I always act so as to preserve the finest traditions of my calling and may I long experience the joy of healing those who seek my help.*"

* As long as they can afford it.
2012-04-26 09:08:53 PM
1 votes:
Indubitably 2012-04-26 09:05:07 PM


Kittypie070: Well I will be f*ckdamned.

I know, right? Amirite?

Bam AND Boom.

I am stunned.

;)


He said he'd shoot my cat if she was in his household

:'(
2012-04-26 09:07:22 PM
1 votes:

greyw1980: kidgenius: Elandriel: cman: America: Where its patriotic to not pay one's debts

Will you give it a rest? The average person can't pay a goddamn $70,000 medical bill when they need emergency surgery and are in the ICU for a few days. That doesn't mean they're a deadbeat.

True.

But, there are the cases mentioned where people already have outstanding/past due accounts and are coming back for more care. If I'm the hospital, I would be pissed that I have to give care to this person that has already shown that they can't or won't pay for the thousands of dollars of service I'm about to give them.

There was this pregnant lady in Texas. Two hospitals turned away the the ambulance because they figured she wouldn't pay. Pregnant lady and baby die in the ambulance.

Congress, outraged, pasted a law that any hospital taking Medicare money cannot turn away a patient until stabilized.

Fast forward 30 years when just a doctor's visit costs two days wages (7.25 x 8 - (.15 x (7.25 x 8)) = 48 ish) this even when the visit is to say, yes you have sinus problems here is a Claritin D script or yes the kid is sick, here is your no truancy doctor note, costs 90.


This is real socialism here. Prices are high cause you're paying for everyone else who isn't paying. Isn't that what you want?
2012-04-26 08:58:33 PM
1 votes:

TV's Vinnie: Okay, come on now. This is the sort of inhumanity that aging Waffen SS officers and Argentinean Death Squad troopers would draw the line at.

And I also call bullsh*t as well. There's no way a collection agency goon can just waltz right into an emergency room and demand payment up front or the patient will be forced to bleed to death. Emergency rooms are REQUIRED BY LAW to provide care first and then work out the details about payment later.

If I went to visit a relative in the hospital and saw some collection agency punk leaning over the bed and bullying them to cough up money, the nurses would find that inhuman bastard limping out of the room with his hands cupped over his bleeding groin area.


No. They cannot turn away the ambulance. They only have treat you when they get around to it. The ER is very good at triage. If you ain't dying or birthing it is a long wait.
2012-04-26 08:57:56 PM
1 votes:
Well I will be f*ckdamned.
2012-04-26 08:51:12 PM
1 votes:

Englebert Slaptyback: overmortal

Maybe I'm out of line here, but if my wife (who is soon to give birth to our daughter) were to go to the ER in labor and someone said "I'll need you to write a check before we can see you.", the first thing I'm going to do is get myself arrested for beating the shiat out of that smarmy a-hole. When someone has a medical emergency, they have a medical emergency.


I see your point, but what makes you think labor is a medical emergency?


Dead chick in ambulance. ER must know it's midwife birth (by which point it is too late) to discharge.
2012-04-26 08:50:24 PM
1 votes:
Welcome to America, the Christian nation where Money > People.

Prai$e Je$u$!
2012-04-26 08:49:25 PM
1 votes:
As somebody who has seen how the game is rigged; anybody who says "pay your bills" can go f*ck themselves, especially when they're the ones on the receiving end when they lose their jobs or find out that the term "corporation" is very narrow, even with paperwork and only applies to billion dollar companies.

When it happens to you, f*ckwads, you'll change your mind. And quick. Until then, kindly shut the fark up.
2012-04-26 08:49:15 PM
1 votes:

meanmutton: bunner: Silly Jesus: I don't know the answer to the quandary.

Well, I can't help but thinking that a return to the notion that greed, flinty avarice and Dickensian cruelty in the name of profit as being something abhorrent would be a good start.

This was a non-profit hospital.


Then why were they billing people? Oh wait... all kinds of "non-profit" businesses turn huge profits. I'll have to add that to the lists of burningly obvious oxymorons...
2012-04-26 08:48:42 PM
1 votes:
Sorry for the spam but I'm not sure where this whole "hospitals in the US are for-profit" thing came from. The overwhelming majority are not-for-profit or government owned. The breakdown is as follows:

Total Number of All U.S. Registered * Hospitals 5,754
Number of U.S. Community ** Hospitals 4,985
Number of Nongovernment Not-for-Profit Community Hospitals 2,904
Number of Investor-Owned (For-Profit) Community Hospitals 1,013
Number of State and Local Government Community Hospitals 1,068
Number of Federal Government Hospitals 213
Number of Nonfederal Psychiatric Hospitals 435
Number of Nonfederal Long Term Care Hospitals 111
Number of Hospital Units of Institutions 10

Only 1,013 of the 5,754 hospitals in the United States are for-profit. The rest are either government-owned or not-for-profit.
2012-04-26 08:45:27 PM
1 votes:
Silly Jesus 2012-04-26 08:28:59 PM


Kittypie070: I would not like to observe Silly Jesus getting into a nasty car accident where his wallet goes flying whee into the ditch utterly unobserved, and then listen to how nobly he complains about how very crass and rude he is to be making a claim upon the time of the doctor.

No, I would not enjoy that at all.


I completely missed the point of the illustration.

Don't you need to feed your cats or something?


My one cat is quite well fed, thank you for your..."concern".

I have been known to purchase food for my cat before I purchase food for myself, as I have an honour-bound responsibility to a creature who is smaller and weaker than I am, and despite her
being a reasonably healthy cat and not all that slow in the reflexes department, she is now too old
to hunt for birds.

What would YOU do if she lived in YOUR household?
2012-04-26 08:43:28 PM
1 votes:

bogey: Silly Jesus: The hospital is a business.


No, it's not:

Based in Minneapolis, Fairview Health Services is a non-profit healthcare system providing exceptional clinical care-from prevention of illness and injury to care for the most complex medical conditions. In partnership with the University of Minnesota, Fairview is an academic health system striving to enhance the clinical enterprise, achieve nation-leading research and academic prominence. Fairview's continuum includes 40+ primary care clinics, a wide range of specialty services, home care and senior services. Fairview owns seven hospitals, including the University of Minnesota Medical Center, Fairview.
2012-04-26 08:40:47 PM
1 votes:

bunner: Silly Jesus: I don't know the answer to the quandary.

Well, I can't help but thinking that a return to the notion that greed, flinty avarice and Dickensian cruelty in the name of profit as being something abhorrent would be a good start.


This was a non-profit hospital.
2012-04-26 08:39:40 PM
1 votes:

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: kidgenius: True.

But, there are the cases mentioned where people already have outstanding/past due accounts and are coming back for more care. If I'm the hospital, I would be pissed that I have to give care to this person that has already shown that they can't or won't pay for the thousands of dollars of service I'm about to give them.

Wouldn't be a problem if hospitals weren't for-profit, now would it.


You didn't read the farking article, did you? This was about a NON-PROFIT hospital.
2012-04-26 08:33:43 PM
1 votes:

GriffXX: Nabb1: I'm betting this is aimed at people who come into the ER for every damned thing under the sun, like a cold or a hangnail, and not people with legitimate emergencies. I'm not advocating the practice, but I can see where they'd have a problem with repeat deadbeat customers abusing the availability of services.

FTA: Collection activities extended from obstetrics to the emergency room. In July 2010, an Accretive manager told staff members at Fairview that they should "get cracking on labor and delivery," since there is a "good chunk to be collected there," according to company e-mails.

That does not sound to me like a crackdown on people abusing the ER.


I don't even practice healthcare law and can tell you why there is a law saying hospitals cannot turn people away.

/irony mine has struck the mother load.
2012-04-26 08:25:32 PM
1 votes:

kidgenius: Elandriel: cman: America: Where its patriotic to not pay one's debts

Will you give it a rest? The average person can't pay a goddamn $70,000 medical bill when they need emergency surgery and are in the ICU for a few days. That doesn't mean they're a deadbeat.

True.

But, there are the cases mentioned where people already have outstanding/past due accounts and are coming back for more care. If I'm the hospital, I would be pissed that I have to give care to this person that has already shown that they can't or won't pay for the thousands of dollars of service I'm about to give them.


There was this pregnant lady in Texas. Two hospitals turned away the the ambulance because they figured she wouldn't pay. Pregnant lady and baby die in the ambulance.

Congress, outraged, pasted a law that any hospital taking Medicare money cannot turn away a patient until stabilized.

Fast forward 30 years when just a doctor's visit costs two days wages (7.25 x 8 - (.15 x (7.25 x 8)) = 48 ish) this even when the visit is to say, yes you have sinus problems here is a Claritin D script or yes the kid is sick, here is your no truancy doctor note, costs 90.
2012-04-26 08:24:40 PM
1 votes:
For the people that say "pay your bills" is the best way to avoid debt collectors, that isn't true. I have no outstanding debt, my credit cards are all paid in full at the end of the month, all my vehicles and houses are paid for, and I still have a debt collector calling.

/not so CSB.
There is a company called Portfolio Recovery that had called the house numerous times while I was out of town. When I returned, I called back the number they had left for me They claimed that I owed on a Discover card bill from "a while back". I informed them that I was not the Mr. Cautionflag that they were seeking since I never had a Discover card. They asked for my SSN to verify that I was not the person. I asked them to give me the SSN they had and I would let them know if it was mine. Well, that was a standoff. I told them to notify me in writing of the bill I owe and the paperwork showing what I had bought. Well, they still haven't sent me anything but still call at least once a day (sometimes twice from different numbers). Ms. Cautionflag keeps an eye on our credit reports and nothing has shown up there. And thank goodness for caller ID, I just let the phone ring when they call. This has been going on since November, 2011.
2012-04-26 08:20:23 PM
1 votes:
I just this moment received the statement from a trip I had to the ER a couple weeks ago - severe chest pains that, thankfully, turned out to be a severely spasming pectoral muscle. I was discharged with a script for motrin and finally managed to settle it down with muscle relaxants I had from a recent trip to Europe. $5145 billed to insurance for overzealous diagnostics and worthless treatment. Of the three countries I have lived in long enough to repeatedly assess the health care, the US is a distant last place. Combine that with a completely corrupt credit assessment system where one must constantly run down bogus posts and you get this crazy situation.
2012-04-26 08:20:21 PM
1 votes:

jbezorg: StanTheMan: change1211: Wow, that is just pathetic. Remind me again why socialized health care is a bad thing for the US?

Because, as with anything else, healthcare gets worse when it becomes an entitlement.

On threshold of the door to the ER, the public servants who get you there or help you get there, the Police, Fire Department, EMTs and Search & Rescue, are looked upon as heroes. Just don't you dare put public servants on the other side of that threshold because that's un-American and those people are swine!


"Help! POLICE?"

"911 Dispatch, what's your emergency?"

"I'm raping myself."

"Can you repeat that, sir?"

"(muffled noises) my! SELF!"

"Why are you doing that sir? Is there any way you can stop for a moment?"

"STOP?"

"Sir."

"HOW CAN I STOP RAPING MYSELF?"

"Sir you need to calm down. You need to get to a room without sharp corners."

"BUT I'M AMERICAN."

"Sir, please--"

"WHAT?"

"Please calm down. I will send an emergency response team to your address, if you give it to me."

"THERE ARE MEXICANS EVERYWHERE."

"Sir? Are you lying on your side?"

"Blargh!"
2012-04-26 08:18:30 PM
1 votes:
So, you get sick and they bleed you to death of your cash, and then let you die?


Sound business model, for a very tiny portion of the country - the assholes who own the hospitals.

Why is it that countries that we consider beneath us have better health care and don't charge nearly so much for the same thing?

We are really screwing the pooch on this (and other things).
2012-04-26 08:11:25 PM
1 votes:

StanTheMan: change1211: Wow, that is just pathetic. Remind me again why socialized health care is a bad thing for the US?

Because, as with anything else, healthcare gets worse when it becomes an entitlement.


On threshold of the door to the ER, the public servants who get you there or help you get there, the Police, Fire Department, EMTs and Search & Rescue, are looked upon as heroes. Just don't you dare put public servants on the other side of that threshold because that's un-American and those people are swine!
2012-04-26 08:08:51 PM
1 votes:

Silly Jesus: bogey: Silly Jesus: The hospital is a business.

If only there were a way to change that.

1. I'm not opposed to it being changed. But right now it is what it is and a situation exists where people feel that they are entitled to the time and expertise of others.

2. How would you change it? Make it into a charity with private donations? Have the government solely fund it through taxes?


Pretty much every 1st world country has a better system than us. Take your pick or mix and match the best parts. I doubt it would be any worse than what we have now.
2012-04-26 08:02:34 PM
1 votes:

Silly Jesus: bunner: Silly Jesus: bunner: Silly Jesus: I don't know the answer to the quandary.

Well, I can't help but thinking that a return to the notion that greed, flinty avarice and Dickensian cruelty in the name of profit as being something abhorrent would be a good start.

I am not speaking of profit. I am speaking of time. A portion of the life of that Dr. and nurse etc. is being taken away without compensation. That adds up. I don't feel that I am any more entitled to demand that a Dr. provide me his time free of charge than I feel that I would be right to demand that a mechanic provide me his.

Yeah, because changing spark plugs is a life and death matter. We get it... Carry on.

[29.media.tumblr.com image 275x210]

So you are entitled to a portion of the life of a man/woman who chooses to be a physician. Got it.


When a person's life is on the line, yes you certainly are. I don't know any doctor worth a damn that wouldn't agree to that. It's called being a human being. I see someone in trouble or needing help, and I'm going to help them to the best of my ability. Save their life, fix them up and then worry about money. Hospitals are one of those things that should not be a business. Same for police, fire, rescue, etc.
2012-04-26 08:01:40 PM
1 votes:

Silly Jesus: But we have not done that, so we are at the point where people feel that they are entitled to the services of doctors and nurses for free.


I wouid wager most people don't really give a shiat if they're going to die, or are extremely ill.

And you know what? I'm okay with people feeling entitled to people's time if they're hurt or sick. If you don't like it, I suggest working to try to change our healthcare system instead of complaining about the poors taking up your precious time.
2012-04-26 08:00:08 PM
1 votes:

change1211: TheDirtyNacho: Silly Jesus: insertsnarkyusername: Silly Jesus: I think that a lot of people don't know where healthcare comes from. They don't see it as a commodity. Yes, the system is broken, but a great deal of people, with emergencies and non-emergencies, don't see the cost of their treatment as a real thing. They think that "oh well, I can't pay" just makes it all go away and the hospital continues on unscathed. You just received a good/service for free, that means that someone just worked for you for free. At some point people can't work for free anymore.

And who is to say that you are entitled to the uncompensated labor of another man/woman to begin with? By virtue of you being born are you automatically entitled to whatever portion of another man/woman's life that it takes to keep you in good health?

On the one hand I can't see turning someone away that truly needs help...
BUT
I also can't see saying "hey, you, come here and give me a portion of your life, I am entitled to it."

Do people truly believe that, by virtue of our very existence, we are entitled to a portion of the life of another?

Last time I went to the ER 5 stitches and and a shot of novocain cost me 600 dollars. This isn't even mentioning the fact that after the injection I waited for 2 hours for a doctor to come back. When she did I was told I could have another but it'd be about another hour and she didn't know when she'd be back. Next time I'm coming in without ID and giving fake info. Start making prices approaching something reasonable and I'll agree with you.

/45 minutes of labor involved, 15 minutes for the doc and 15 minutes each for 2 people who may have or may not have been nurses to grill me about payment info until I started shouting at them to sew my farking hand up and showing them the visible bone.

Generally if someone does not like the price of a good or service, they don't get said good or service. You, on the other hand, have stated that you will not only demand th ...

It's a shame the crazy minority ruins things for you there.



They are becoming infirm due to old age/poor health from a lifetime of ignorance. Great changes will happen over the next decade as a younger and much more progressive generation becomes politically active.

Anyone that can do simple math can see that the present health care system is teetering.
2012-04-26 07:55:56 PM
1 votes:

Silly Jesus: The hospital is a business.


If only there were a way to change that.
2012-04-26 07:53:12 PM
1 votes:

Forbidden Doughnut: karmaceutical: Just another wonder facet of capitalism. Can't socialize the distribution of health care, no sir. Why yes, it is a great time for insurance companies to be buying up hospitals. Nothing at all perverse about that. They can't make enough money on Wall Street like they did in the old days.

Health care will probably be the next bubble to pop after housing (c.2008)

/ or student loans...


It is pretty much at the breaking point already. It isn't quite like a bubble though. There is no "investment" in health care. No one is going to go around crying that their expensive health insurance plans have plummeted in value.
2012-04-26 07:52:33 PM
1 votes:

insertsnarkyusername: cost me 600 dollars.



Last year I had some health issues-thyroid (still farked) and back (unfixable, mostly). Had an mri and xrays, thyroid scan, whole lotta meds. $25K (insurance paid 14%). Hell of a lot of money for no surgery or such, and it's ruined us.
2012-04-26 07:48:40 PM
1 votes:

bunner: ...... Which is a lot smarter than a nation that metes out health care in dribs and drabs at a price that offers nothing but fiscal subjugation to the people who need it.


It also kept the lenders from lending making loans that were too risky or that wouldn't be paid by the next Jubilee. Seems to me it would keep them a little bit honest

cookiefleck: No, I'm not saying pay the balance immediately, most companies, if you actually choose to answer the phone, will work with you on a payment plan. Unfortunately, yes, you will have to pay.


So, answer the phone and be on the hook for a payment the size of a mortgage when the job(s) I have can barely keep up with the rent and shoes for the kids, or don't answer the phone. Which one do I not pay when my 15 year old car won't pass inspection because the tires wore out? Hmmm, decisions, decisions.

Oh, right, I should ask for a raise, since that worked so well for the last three former coworkers who tried that one.
Maybe I should have known (hypothetically) I would be hit by a car while I was on the sidewalk, and need to be in the ICU for a week, and went to college so I could make the Big Bucks and saved up?

\House foreclosed because I chose to pay for my wife's meds rather than the mortgage, and the bank said "FU we want ours."
\\They wouldn't take partial payment
\\\Now they have an empty house.
2012-04-26 07:42:45 PM
1 votes:

karmaceutical: Just another wonder facet of capitalism. Can't socialize the distribution of health care, no sir. Why yes, it is a great time for insurance companies to be buying up hospitals. Nothing at all perverse about that. They can't make enough money on Wall Street like they did in the old days.


Health care will probably be the next bubble to pop after housing (c.2008)

/ or student loans...
2012-04-26 07:36:06 PM
1 votes:

Silly Jesus: I don't know the answer to the quandary.


Well, I can't help but thinking that a return to the notion that greed, flinty avarice and Dickensian cruelty in the name of profit as being something abhorrent would be a good start.
2012-04-26 07:32:13 PM
1 votes:

Let me, briefly, run down the last forty years of the particular flavor of neoCON we all sucked down with a drink straw as fast as we could.

"You wanna be rich, don't ya?"

"Uh, yeah, sure, I guess so!"

"Well then all you have to do is let us rich folks get a littler richer, first! That's sounds fair, doesn't it?"

thejohnkeenan.files.wordpress.com

Ah, ha ha! Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?"
2012-04-26 07:27:35 PM
1 votes:

Silly Jesus: I think that a lot of people don't know where healthcare comes from. They don't see it as a commodity. Yes, the system is broken, but a great deal of people, with emergencies and non-emergencies, don't see the cost of their treatment as a real thing. They think that "oh well, I can't pay" just makes it all go away and the hospital continues on unscathed. You just received a good/service for free, that means that someone just worked for you for free. At some point people can't work for free anymore.

And who is to say that you are entitled to the uncompensated labor of another man/woman to begin with? By virtue of you being born are you automatically entitled to whatever portion of another man/woman's life that it takes to keep you in good health?

On the one hand I can't see turning someone away that truly needs help...
BUT
I also can't see saying "hey, you, come here and give me a portion of your life, I am entitled to it."

Do people truly believe that, by virtue of our very existence, we are entitled to a portion of the life of another?


So what do you suggest the poor (or even the middle-class) do? Die and decrease the surplus population?
2012-04-26 07:16:37 PM
1 votes:

porterm: . gonna have to check my credit report to make sure i dont get dinged for thier mistake.


Do that, and do it soon. It's worth the time spent.

There is a woman in our town who has the same first and last name my wife does, and they share the same middle initial as well. Different middle name, birthdate, and SS# though. When we went to buy our first house there were FIVE incorrect entries on my wife's report. ( this other woman )

Turns out the lady is a professional deadbeat. I have lost count of how many calls and threatening letters we have received over the years. Now, once a year we pull my wife's credit report to check it over, and more often than not there is something there that needs to be removed.

CSSB: last week I received a bundle of "legal notices" from a collection agency in Pennsylvania that literally filled my not-small mailbox. After determining they had the wrong person *again* I used them as charcoal starter.
2012-04-26 07:09:40 PM
1 votes:

cookiefleck: Okay, maybe I was taught the wrong way, but to me, bills are bills. Doesn't matter if it's for the cable or your trip to the ER. Yes, one is more expensive than the other, but unfortunately, this country doesn't have free health care ( I'm in favor of free health care, btw). Until we do have free health care, pay what you owe. Most insurance companies don't want all of the balance at once unless you've been dodging them for a while



You seem like a nice enough person but you're arguing a position from naivete. You argue that a cable bill and hospital bill are the same. They aren't.

For starters you know in advance what cable is going to charge you each month (give or take $10). However, every time you walk in to a hospital it's spin the magic bill wheel. You have absolutely no idea what you're going to be charged or how much (or if at all) your insurance company is going to pay.

Obviously, I have a CSB. After paying Blue Cross over $300k for insurance since 1985 (and Blue Cross paying out about $50k in hospital bills) they cancelled me the day I was diagnosed with stage 3 kidney disease (surprise!) leaving me with a ton of bills.

Similarly, a recent story showed that when hospitals spin the magic bill wheel a patient can be charged anywhere from $1,500 to $182,000 for the same procedure! Link pops.

There are many reasons that hospital bills are not the same as cable bills. My sincere advice, Cookiefleck, is get out of this argument before you dig a much deeper hole for yourself.
2012-04-26 07:07:36 PM
1 votes:

Booface1985: I'm pretty sure they have more than just "access." I'm pretty sure that these folks run the show now.

A few years back, girlfriend got appendicitis. We were both young, working through college, from low-income families, so neither of us had insurance. A cheap medical clinic told her she was on her period, and then she passed out for about 2 days. When she woke up, her appendix had burst and gone septic, it was clear it was serious, so we went to the ER.

They asked for payment up front, of course. When we couldn't, they struck us in the waiting room for about 15 hours. At one point, they asked me to move her (she passed out) to the bathroom so she wouldn't be in the way.

Once they finally admitted us, they put us in a room and ignored us for 20 more hours. Finally, they did a laparascopic appendectomy and discharged her. Those are a cheaper method used for mild appendicitis--when someone has gone septic for 3 days it's basically missing the point.

So, of course, a few days later, she's passing out turning yellow, so we go to a new hospital. They give her some painkillers and discharge her. So we go to another. That one finally admits us (after another similar process), and gives her the correct surgery. They botch it.

So it's back to ER-hopping to correct the mistakes of that surgery. Then months of recovery. All told, she gets in the hole a few hundred thousand dollars. Basically, the annual interest was more than she had any hope of making in a year, so we handled the debt by ignoring the phone or the mail.

We tried to sue, but most of the places we went to lost the relevant medical records that would've given us a shot , and anyway lawyers don't like to take cases that don't involve death or permanent disability because the payout is so much less (to them, I assume. To us, recouping our costs would've been great).

So, that's my rant. Well, maybe it's not. Unrelated, but to get it off my chest, it's 6 years later and she got diagnosed with MS. FOr 90 days of ...

========================

That''s the kind of thing that would push me over the edge. For the life of me, I can't understand what it will take to get a revolution going in this country.
2012-04-26 07:06:58 PM
1 votes:

Englebert Slaptyback: overmortal

Maybe I'm out of line here, but if my wife (who is soon to give birth to our daughter) were to go to the ER in labor and someone said "I'll need you to write a check before we can see you.", the first thing I'm going to do is get myself arrested for beating the shiat out of that smarmy a-hole. When someone has a medical emergency, they have a medical emergency.


I see your point, but what makes you think labor is a medical emergency?


The mother of my grandson went onto labor at 25 weeks. It was a high risk pregnancy that became an emergency c section to save the life of my grandson. He was life flighted to a childrens hospital and r emained there till his death ten days later. HOW IS THAT NOT AN EMERGENCY? Would you have his mother squat down and push till he was born then take a cab to the hospital while giving cpr to her baby who could not breath? You clueless moron. Perhaps they should have denied care till my son put down a hundred thousand dollar deposit. People like you are too willfully ignorant and evil to be allowed to exist in civilized society.
You should be put down.
2012-04-26 07:02:46 PM
1 votes:
It's time to shake the etch a sketch, folks. Happens in all cultures and societies like clockwork. It can be a useful and promising event full of renewal that is then, wisely, built into the fabric of the economy or it can be one more huge, ugly, violent, scorched earth clusterf*ck. Most revolutions, as history has taught us, are. But only the stupidest, most gullible and deluded and ill read among us can possibly think that this crippled, grasping, begging, disingenuous mess can just keep chugging along until we pull the Next Great Leap Forward™ out of our asses and get to buy more stuff.
2012-04-26 06:57:22 PM
1 votes:

cookiefleck: bunner: cookiefleck: Okay, so they have bills other than medical.. those bills should be waived? How much generosity should be given? Just waive all bills til the person gets better again?

The Jews used to have Jubilee. It was a shaking of the economic etch a sketch. And they were smart. Because it rebooted the economy and got money flowing again. ALL money is debt, these days, so why bother. Just keep racking those beads down that metal rod until the guy you sold three aspirins and gave a band-aid to has to mow your lawn for the rest of his life. I mean, that means you WIN, doesn't it?

I have no clue what point you tried to make there, but make minimum payments as a show of goodwill.. not, "I won't make anypayments at all" which, sadly, is how most people view things.


Simple. When all money is debt, which is the focus of this thread, it becomes moot. And Jubilee was a huge forgiveness of debt. Which is a lot smarter than a nation that metes out health care in dribs and drabs at a price that offers nothing but fiscal subjugation to the people who need it.
2012-04-26 06:54:25 PM
1 votes:
cman 2012-04-26 03:05:10 PM


cman: America: Where its patriotic to not pay one's debts

Elandriel: SMACK!!

cman: My smug sneering pseudo-apologies, this is what my holy neo-con Ma$ter$ told me was "humor". I wanted to chap your asses.



Fixed it for you, you damned wind-up sh*tparrot.
2012-04-26 06:54:21 PM
1 votes:

cookiefleck: insertsnarkyusername: cookiefleck: zetar: cookiefleck: Ima say something that isn't gonna be popular... people in debt are given more rights than the people they owe money to. Despite what either candidate says. These people are called "professional debtors". You can give them two, three, months to get their finances in order, but they won't.


This is because, once upon a time in America, people's rights were considered more important than money.

I would think giving 3 months of not having to pay your bills, interest free is pretty generous.

Yes because people living paycheck to paycheck and had to take time off due to injury or illness can easily pay thousands of dollars in medical bills in a 3 month period. All they have to do is magically get a better job, not eat or live out of their car. Just so farking selfish of them.


Okay, so they have bills other than medical.. those bills should be waived? How much generosity should be given? Just waive all bills til the person gets better again?


So debtor's prison then? Not to mention that for most people it's literally impossible to pay for a large medical bill in 3 months even if they spend every single penny they earn on it.

/I've been trolled
2012-04-26 06:53:27 PM
1 votes:

cookiefleck: zetar: cookiefleck: zetar: cookiefleck: Until we do have free health care, pay what you owe. Most insurance companies don't want all of the balance at once unless you've been dodging them for a while


My sister was out of town for a cycling event a few years ago, and ended up smashing into the back of an SUV (we'll leave out the long story but suffice to say it was not her fault and she was hurt badly). Had she not had insurance, she'd have been liable for $130,000+

You're saying everyone should just go ahead and pay that out of pocket immediately? Because most of us would not be able to. Even though her job pays fairly well, that's 3 years salary BEFORE living expenses and taxes are taken out...
2012-04-26 06:36:13 PM
1 votes:
I've never understood the american medical system.

On one side you have a company interested in making money who provides a service they can bill a lot for because it's essential. On the other side you have a company interested in making money and the best way for them to do that is not to pay out to companies like the first company.

Somewhere someone is going to take the hit and it's usually the person that actually needs the help. They can do everything right and by the books and still, STILL get screwed over.

I know I've not taken out more than I've put in to the medical system up here. I've been very, very lucky. It's nice to know I'm helping out folks that haven't been so lucky, and nice to know if I need it that it is there.
2012-04-26 06:30:25 PM
1 votes:

cookiefleck: zetar: cookiefleck: Ima say something that isn't gonna be popular... people in debt are given more rights than the people they owe money to. Despite what either candidate says. These people are called "professional debtors". You can give them two, three, months to get their finances in order, but they won't.


This is because, once upon a time in America, people's rights were considered more important than money.

I would think giving 3 months of not having to pay your bills, interest free is pretty generous.


Yes because people living paycheck to paycheck and had to take time off due to injury or illness can easily pay thousands of dollars in medical bills in a 3 month period. All they have to do is magically get a better job, not eat or live out of their car. Just so farking selfish of them.
2012-04-26 06:28:13 PM
1 votes:

rumpelstiltskin: kronicfeld: Marcus Aurelius:

Moral weakness is what causes bankruptcy


Moral weakness causes cancer? (excepting most lung cancers, but you throw a nice mesothelioma in there and then we'll talk).

Really hope you were kidding there. Tons of people go bankrupt because of long term illnesses; my dad was almost among them after paying my mom's medical bills after she died. And she HAD insurance.
2012-04-26 06:15:35 PM
1 votes:

Kanemano: Nabb1: I'm betting this is aimed at people who come into the ER for every damned thing under the sun, like a cold or a hangnail, and not people with legitimate emergencies. I'm not advocating the practice, but I can see where they'd have a problem with repeat deadbeat customers abusing the availability of services.

Counter argument "My breast has fallen off. Can you reattach it?"


i75.photobucket.com

You know, I worked in a hospital where I watched quite a few folk rot from the inside like that, but that story still gave me pause. Sometimes I think to myself every right-wing asshole in the country needs to be held down and forced to listen to that story, or another one like it.

Then I remember they just don't listen, or hear what they don't want to hear.
2012-04-26 06:10:53 PM
1 votes:

azhais: I don't have a landline and have DSL. They'll generally let you just get the DSL (for a slight upcharge).


Oh, I asked. They refused.
2012-04-26 06:06:37 PM
1 votes:

StanTheMan: Wait,I thought hospitals were these free places where healthcare workers donate their time. You mean you actually have to pay for medical services?

/Worked in an ER in college and saw the horrors of farkheads abusing the system
/Ex-GF is an ER doc
/Most people in SoCal ER's are not emergencies and should be thrown out


I agree with you. I think ERs should be able to check that you have insurance before they treat you and wheel your ass out the door if you can't pay. Mostly because we'd get single payer really farkin' quick that way.
2012-04-26 06:04:02 PM
1 votes:
In some of the situations presented, the collection agency was doing this without the consent/understanding of the hospital involved and did not have the authority to tell the patients what they did, yet did so anyways based on their companies internal procedures. It's cheaper for a hospital to just absorb the cost of a ED visit than it is to risk a huge lawsuit/fines/negative media.

That said, I'm an asshole, but what kind of farking monster do you have to be to pretend to have the authority of a hospital and tell someone in a childrens hospital emergency room to pay or leave, all so you can get a gift card bonus at work? I try to be polite to call center folks and bill collectors, because sometimes a job is a job, but goddamn. I can't imagine being desperate enough to do that.
2012-04-26 06:03:31 PM
1 votes:

Nabb1: I'm betting this is aimed at people who come into the ER for every damned thing under the sun, like a cold or a hangnail, and not people with legitimate emergencies. I'm not advocating the practice, but I can see where they'd have a problem with repeat deadbeat customers abusing the availability of services.


The ER staff are already aware of these people and don't waste any resources on them.

When it comes to debt collection companies, they pretty much do the worst things imaginable. Passing themselves off as health care workers to try and intimidate someone into paying large hospital bills using the threat of denial of emergency care for a serious condition sounds EXACTLY like what a debt collector would do.

Speaking as someone who has no issues with debt or unpaid bills, I hate debt collectors with a fiery passion.
2012-04-26 05:52:40 PM
1 votes:
cman is actually a foreign national paid to post comments on websites which are typically USA-centric

this is not cman's only gig

cman is rich, Rich, RICH from this work as a shill

the average american would cut off cman's genitals with a chainsaw and then remove the offending cman skull from the neck with a dull butter knife

i am completely appalled that the average american would resort to such extremes to silence the freedom of speech of this cman, and i would testify on behalf of cman in court
2012-04-26 05:49:04 PM
1 votes:

kidgenius: Elandriel: cman: America: Where its patriotic to not pay one's debts

Will you give it a rest? The average person can't pay a goddamn $70,000 medical bill when they need emergency surgery and are in the ICU for a few days. That doesn't mean they're a deadbeat.

True.

But, there are the cases mentioned where people already have outstanding/past due accounts and are coming back for more care. If I'm the hospital, I would be pissed that I have to give care to this person that has already shown that they can't or won't pay for the thousands of dollars of service I'm about to give them.


I've BEEN the hospital. No, we didn't like it. You know what else we didn't like? The fact that the law is written so that poor people have no option when sick EXCEPT wait until it's an emergency (and WAY more expensive to treat) and then come in to the ER, which cannot refuse treatment.

And before you even bring it up, closing the ERs will help things a bit, but most hospitals will then get about a lawsuit a week for refusing to treat some rich but "deadbeat-looking" man is refused care and he or his rich surviving family sue them for (essentially) killing him, often because of his race, or mistaken identity. Not to mention such a situation guarantees the same dark-ages world where a man could get away with murder just because he looked like a lord instead of a peasant.

But HCR is the devil and we need to keep the US healthcare system exactly as it is. STAY THE COURSE, REGRESSION GOOD, AMERICA AM BEST!
2012-04-26 05:48:37 PM
1 votes:

StanTheMan: change1211: Wow, that is just pathetic. Remind me again why socialized health care is a bad thing for the US?

Because, as with anything else, healthcare gets worse when it becomes an entitlement.


That's funny, because I have never had any issue with care in what you'd consider my much maligned socialized healthcare.
2012-04-26 05:44:38 PM
1 votes:
Poor Americans consume too little healthcare, especially preventive healthcare. Other Americans-often rich Americans-consume too much healthcare, often unwisely, and sometimes to their detriment. The American healthcare system combines famine with gluttony.

Chief Medical Officer at the American Cancer Society-Dr. Otis Brawley
2012-04-26 05:38:19 PM
1 votes:
If it were the right family member and a debt collector came in person to collect a fee from them or me in a time of dire medical emergency, I'm just unstable enough to make that person my special project. Not shoot them or hurt their kids or anything, but just fark with them for as long as it takes for them to find a new line of employment. The point is, there are plenty of people less stable than I am and much more creative than I am.

So, the people that come into your hospital room must have nothing they care about in the world or they really wouldn't do it. Should you feel sorry for them? No. Treat them as inhuman as possible. Every insult, every aggressive move. Spit on them, shiat on them, bleed on them, scream at them. Threaten to butcher their cat, who you've found out from their friend's facebook page is named Mr. Fluffs, and who just celebrated his tenth birthday. Maybe, maybe some of it will pierce their lack of soul and hurt them just a fraction of how they hurt you. Just maybe. If they're smart, they won't do this kind of job for long before someone DOES do something irreversible.

/fark bill collectors
2012-04-26 05:35:00 PM
1 votes:
Well, if they're not identifying themselves as debt collectors right away, they're breaking federal law. Reminds me of that story from about a few years back, a major debt collector was closing his doors after being sued into oblivion by the feds due to illegal practices. The owner tried his hardest to make everyone feel bad for him and his workers, and somewhere... The world's tiniest violin was playing. Anyone remember the name of that company?
2012-04-26 05:34:51 PM
1 votes:

change1211: Wow, that is just pathetic. Remind me again why socialized health care is a bad thing for the US?


Because soshalizm is bad.
2012-04-26 05:34:02 PM
1 votes:
You know what's better? having CPS show up and drop some hints that you are being red flagged for attention while you are at the ER with food poisoning because some busy body alerted them that your kid doesn't have health insurance yet.

I had just moved to the state, and the only job you've been able to find is temp work, and the State Health Department in one city that you applied for the state run plan(as well as food stamps) sent back all your paperwork and didn't include instructions for you to take it to the office in a different city 5 minutes up the road and use it reapply because I had moved.

Yeah, that's fun too.

I got better, both in terms of health, and a much better job.
2012-04-26 05:22:39 PM
1 votes:

Englebert Slaptyback: overmortal

Maybe I'm out of line here, but if my wife (who is soon to give birth to our daughter) were to go to the ER in labor and someone said "I'll need you to write a check before we can see you.", the first thing I'm going to do is get myself arrested for beating the shiat out of that smarmy a-hole. When someone has a medical emergency, they have a medical emergency.


I see your point, but what makes you think labor is a medical emergency?


There are many circumstances when going into labor is considered an emergency. Premature labor, baby's heartbeat is too slow, the woman is hemorrhaging. Sometimes it's necessary to stabilize the woman's condition before transporting her to the OB floor.
2012-04-26 05:21:54 PM
1 votes:

TV's Vinnie: Well gee thank you for that wonderful answer. Let me just go into my Scrooge McDuck Money Vault and just pull out a few gold bars.


THIS
2012-04-26 05:21:53 PM
1 votes:

Nabb1: Gyrfalcon: Nabb1: I'm betting this is aimed at people who come into the ER for every damned thing under the sun, like a cold or a hangnail, and not people with legitimate emergencies. I'm not advocating the practice, but I can see where they'd have a problem with repeat deadbeat customers abusing the availability of services.

The people you're condemning as "repeat deadbeat customers" are those who--like myself--lack both basic insurance and a job. If I need emergency treatment, I go to the ER, since I can't go anywhere else. When I get a bill, I can't pay it in a timely fashion, and off it goes to the collector. If I can't pay, I can't pay--and if I need care again, where am I supposed to go? A different hospital? Wait to treat this week's broken leg till last year's pneumonia is paid off?

I'm sorry if you feel that my need for care is "abusing the services" but I'm unable to get health insurance due to that pesky preexisting condition clause. I'll try to be born healthy next go-around.

Read my post again, and then read yours.


The attorney general, Lori Swanson, cited two federal laws that are violated by Accretive's practices, the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act, a federal law requiring hospitals to provide emergency health care regardless of citizenship, legal status or ability to pay, and that by giving its collectors access to health records, Accretive violated the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act.

Swanson further cited a state law that is broken when Accretive employees fail to identify themselves as debt collectors when accosting patients.
2012-04-26 05:20:55 PM
1 votes:
Sun Worshiping Dog Launcher:I'd love to drop our landline phone entirely, but I can't because we have to have that to get DSL. And DSL is the only highspeed internet option we have other than satellite.

I don't have a landline and have DSL. They'll generally let you just get the DSL (for a slight upcharge).
2012-04-26 05:19:02 PM
1 votes:
TV's Vinnie: And I also call bullsh*t as well. There's no way a collection agency goon can just waltz right into an emergency room and demand payment up front or the patient will be forced to bleed to death. Emergency rooms are REQUIRED BY LAW to provide care first and then work out the details about payment later.

And this, this too.

This kind of crap has been illegal in the United States for forty + years thanks to the anti-dumping laws such as COBRA and EMTALA.
2012-04-26 05:18:44 PM
1 votes:

kronicfeld: cman: Do you know what the best way is to avoid a debt collector?

Pay your bills?


Well gee thank you for that wonderful answer. Let me just go into my Scrooge McDuck Money Vault and just pull out a few gold bars.
2012-04-26 05:17:21 PM
1 votes:

TV's Vinnie: the nurses would find that inhuman bastard limping out of the room with his hands cupped over his bleeding groin area.


Hey, keep your sex fantasies to yourself.
2012-04-26 05:13:29 PM
1 votes:
Just another wonder facet of capitalism. Can't socialize the distribution of health care, no sir. Why yes, it is a great time for insurance companies to be buying up hospitals. Nothing at all perverse about that. They can't make enough money on Wall Street like they did in the old days.
2012-04-26 05:10:35 PM
1 votes:
Something tells me that HIPPA was breached.
2012-04-26 05:00:50 PM
1 votes:
Wow, that is just pathetic. Remind me again why socialized health care is a bad thing for the US?
2012-04-26 05:00:39 PM
1 votes:

Nana's Vibrator: What about late night debt collection calls to your house for people you're related to but live 100 miles away? Or people you're not even related to and don't even know? Because that's what I keep getting. Collectons, telemarketers, spammers, spyware programmers, virus programmers. Give me a chainsaw and put me in a room with each and every one of them. I will win.
/did I miss anyone?


Yeah, you missed the debt collection calls for people who share your wife's name. Your wife, who has a very, very common first name, and an even more common last name now that she's married to you.

We have a rule in our house that if the area code does not match ours or three others, the phone does not get answered. I'm looking into buying a call blocker that can be programmed to reject everything but a set of pre-programmed numbers. The local phone company offers a service that will block a whopping 12 numbers, or a service that allows a whopping 12 numbers to go through, and nothing else.

I'd love to drop our landline phone entirely, but I can't because we have to have that to get DSL. And DSL is the only highspeed internet option we have other than satellite. We actually get more telemarketer calls now then we did before the Do Not Call list was activated. Most of the calls are for lowering credit card interest rates and the companies cannot be traced since they will not give out their names and they spoof their numbers.
2012-04-26 04:59:06 PM
1 votes:
The collectors that work for the hospital are easy to spot - they are in business attire moving among the care providers; often in black; way over dressed.

I remember being on the edge of passing out as I was admitted and I had one of those jagoffs grilling me, and grabbing for my back-pack because they thought my check-book might be in there. If I wasn't half keeling over I would have hit the biatch with said back pack.

I have great medical insurance and she knew it - she was after the $300 patient fee for being admitted.
2012-04-26 04:52:34 PM
1 votes:

Nabb1: I'm betting this is aimed at people who come into the ER for every damned thing under the sun, like a cold or a hangnail, and not people with legitimate emergencies. I'm not advocating the practice, but I can see where they'd have a problem with repeat deadbeat customers abusing the availability of services.


FTA: Collection activities extended from obstetrics to the emergency room. In July 2010, an Accretive manager told staff members at Fairview that they should "get cracking on labor and delivery," since there is a "good chunk to be collected there," according to company e-mails.

That does not sound to me like a crackdown on people abusing the ER.
2012-04-26 04:52:14 PM
1 votes:

cman: This is Fark, an arm of the Democratic party. How dare you make such a statement on this site.


i33.tinypic.com

awww, poor guy, i guess you missed all the NRO, WND, RCP, daily caller, blaze, fox, and townhall links that are regularly greenlit on fark.
2012-04-26 04:46:57 PM
1 votes:
for profit healthcare system FTL!
2012-04-26 04:38:52 PM
1 votes:

kronicfeld: Marcus Aurelius: That's not a very popular solution, considering that the majority of personal bankruptcies are over medical bills.

Fallacious statistic. The majority of personal bankruptcies list a medical provider as a creditor or claimant. That is not the same as the claim causing the bankruptcy.


You must have different statisticals than me.
2012-04-26 04:17:20 PM
1 votes:
Thanks a lot, 0bama.
2012-04-26 04:00:09 PM
1 votes:

Marcus Aurelius: That's not a very popular solution, considering that the majority of personal bankruptcies are over medical bills.


Fallacious statistic. The majority of personal bankruptcies list a medical provider as a creditor or claimant. That is not the same as the claim causing the bankruptcy.
2012-04-26 03:48:37 PM
1 votes:

kronicfeld: cman: Do you know what the best way is to avoid a debt collector?

Pay your bills?


That's not a very popular solution, considering that the majority of personal bankruptcies are over medical bills.

You obviously haven't had to interact with the US health care system in any serious fashion.
2012-04-26 03:14:36 PM
1 votes:

Elandriel: cman: America: Where its patriotic to not pay one's debts

Will you give it a rest? The average person can't pay a goddamn $70,000 medical bill when they need emergency surgery and are in the ICU for a few days. That doesn't mean they're a deadbeat.


True.

But, there are the cases mentioned where people already have outstanding/past due accounts and are coming back for more care. If I'm the hospital, I would be pissed that I have to give care to this person that has already shown that they can't or won't pay for the thousands of dollars of service I'm about to give them.
2012-04-26 02:56:14 PM
1 votes:

kronicfeld: cman: Do you know what the best way is to avoid a debt collector?

Pay your bills?


Die quickly?
2012-04-26 02:41:41 PM
1 votes:

kronicfeld: cman: Do you know what the best way is to avoid a debt collector?

Pay your bills?


This is Fark, an arm of the Democratic party. How dare you make such a statement on this site.
2012-04-26 02:40:57 PM
1 votes:

cman: Do you know what the best way is to avoid a debt collector?


Pay your bills?
 
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