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(The New York Times)   Old and busted: Late night debt collection calls. New Hotness: Debt collectors in emergency rooms. Why, yes- there IS a lawsuit already pending   (nytimes.com) divider line 376
    More: Sick, emergency rooms, collection agency, hospital system, American Hospital Association, consumer advocacy, debt settlement, medical debts, health information  
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15606 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Apr 2012 at 4:43 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-26 08:40:47 PM

bunner: Silly Jesus: I don't know the answer to the quandary.

Well, I can't help but thinking that a return to the notion that greed, flinty avarice and Dickensian cruelty in the name of profit as being something abhorrent would be a good start.


This was a non-profit hospital.
 
2012-04-26 08:43:28 PM

bogey: Silly Jesus: The hospital is a business.


No, it's not:

Based in Minneapolis, Fairview Health Services is a non-profit healthcare system providing exceptional clinical care-from prevention of illness and injury to care for the most complex medical conditions. In partnership with the University of Minnesota, Fairview is an academic health system striving to enhance the clinical enterprise, achieve nation-leading research and academic prominence. Fairview's continuum includes 40+ primary care clinics, a wide range of specialty services, home care and senior services. Fairview owns seven hospitals, including the University of Minnesota Medical Center, Fairview.
 
2012-04-26 08:45:27 PM
Silly Jesus 2012-04-26 08:28:59 PM


Kittypie070: I would not like to observe Silly Jesus getting into a nasty car accident where his wallet goes flying whee into the ditch utterly unobserved, and then listen to how nobly he complains about how very crass and rude he is to be making a claim upon the time of the doctor.

No, I would not enjoy that at all.


I completely missed the point of the illustration.

Don't you need to feed your cats or something?


My one cat is quite well fed, thank you for your..."concern".

I have been known to purchase food for my cat before I purchase food for myself, as I have an honour-bound responsibility to a creature who is smaller and weaker than I am, and despite her
being a reasonably healthy cat and not all that slow in the reflexes department, she is now too old
to hunt for birds.

What would YOU do if she lived in YOUR household?
 
2012-04-26 08:46:34 PM

thamike: jbezorg: StanTheMan: change1211: Wow, that is just pathetic. Remind me again why socialized health care is a bad thing for the US?

Because, as with anything else, healthcare gets worse when it becomes an entitlement.

On threshold of the door to the ER, the public servants who get you there or help you get there, the Police, Fire Department, EMTs and Search & Rescue, are looked upon as heroes. Just don't you dare put public servants on the other side of that threshold because that's un-American and those people are swine!

"Help! POLICE?"

"911 Dispatch, what's your emergency?"

"I'm raping myself."

"Can you repeat that, sir?"

"(muffled noises) my! SELF!"

"Why are you doing that sir? Is there any way you can stop for a moment?"

"STOP?"

"Sir."

"HOW CAN I STOP RAPING MYSELF?"

"Sir you need to calm down. You need to get to a room without sharp corners."

"BUT I'M AMERICAN."

"Sir, please--"

"WHAT?"

"Please calm down. I will send an emergency response team to your address, if you give it to me."

"THERE ARE MEXICANS EVERYWHERE."

"Sir? Are you lying on your side?"

"Blargh!"



Holy shiat I think I just peed myself.
 
2012-04-26 08:47:11 PM

Silly Jesus: Indubitably: Silly Jesus: Kittypie070: I would not like to observe Silly Jesus getting into a nasty car accident where his wallet goes flying whee into the ditch utterly unobserved, and then listen to how nobly he complains about how very crass and rude he is to be making a claim upon the time of the doctor.

No, I would not enjoy that at all.

I'm not talking about COD medical care.

Interesting straw man though.

Don't you need to feed your cats or something? You seem to be stalking me recently.

'Cuz yer silly queso Jesus?

Heh.

I crack me up up on at least seven levels here, maybe eight.

Ah.

Love abounds.

;)

You are...um...strange. I kinda like it, though.

Are you typically inebriated in one way or another when you post or is this the "normal" Indubitably?


You created your account this year?

And you ask me questions easily researched via sociopathy?

Why would I answer anything?

Fear less?

Fearless.

Grow up, and welcome to FARK.

;)

P.S. I post in various states of consciousness, as do you, so before you begin to label me, please take a look at the label of your persona non gratiFARK, and ask yourself a fundamental question: do you believe in the power of FARK? Because if you do, you are walking on thin ice, wannabe...

P.P.S. Heh.
 
2012-04-26 08:48:42 PM
Sorry for the spam but I'm not sure where this whole "hospitals in the US are for-profit" thing came from. The overwhelming majority are not-for-profit or government owned. The breakdown is as follows:

Total Number of All U.S. Registered * Hospitals 5,754
Number of U.S. Community ** Hospitals 4,985
Number of Nongovernment Not-for-Profit Community Hospitals 2,904
Number of Investor-Owned (For-Profit) Community Hospitals 1,013
Number of State and Local Government Community Hospitals 1,068
Number of Federal Government Hospitals 213
Number of Nonfederal Psychiatric Hospitals 435
Number of Nonfederal Long Term Care Hospitals 111
Number of Hospital Units of Institutions 10

Only 1,013 of the 5,754 hospitals in the United States are for-profit. The rest are either government-owned or not-for-profit.
 
2012-04-26 08:49:15 PM

meanmutton: bunner: Silly Jesus: I don't know the answer to the quandary.

Well, I can't help but thinking that a return to the notion that greed, flinty avarice and Dickensian cruelty in the name of profit as being something abhorrent would be a good start.

This was a non-profit hospital.


Then why were they billing people? Oh wait... all kinds of "non-profit" businesses turn huge profits. I'll have to add that to the lists of burningly obvious oxymorons...
 
2012-04-26 08:49:25 PM
As somebody who has seen how the game is rigged; anybody who says "pay your bills" can go f*ck themselves, especially when they're the ones on the receiving end when they lose their jobs or find out that the term "corporation" is very narrow, even with paperwork and only applies to billion dollar companies.

When it happens to you, f*ckwads, you'll change your mind. And quick. Until then, kindly shut the fark up.
 
2012-04-26 08:49:54 PM

Kittypie070: Silly Jesus 2012-04-26 08:28:59 PM


Kittypie070: I would not like to observe Silly Jesus getting into a nasty car accident where his wallet goes flying whee into the ditch utterly unobserved, and then listen to how nobly he complains about how very crass and rude he is to be making a claim upon the time of the doctor.

No, I would not enjoy that at all.

I completely missed the point of the illustration.

Don't you need to feed your cats or something?

My one cat is quite well fed, thank you for your..."concern".

I have been known to purchase food for my cat before I purchase food for myself, as I have an honour-bound responsibility to a creature who is smaller and weaker than I am, and despite her
being a reasonably healthy cat and not all that slow in the reflexes department, she is now too old
to hunt for birds.

What would YOU do if she lived in YOUR household?


Shoot her. I hate cats. They kill my wild song birds.
 
2012-04-26 08:50:24 PM
Welcome to America, the Christian nation where Money > People.

Prai$e Je$u$!
 
2012-04-26 08:51:12 PM

Englebert Slaptyback: overmortal

Maybe I'm out of line here, but if my wife (who is soon to give birth to our daughter) were to go to the ER in labor and someone said "I'll need you to write a check before we can see you.", the first thing I'm going to do is get myself arrested for beating the shiat out of that smarmy a-hole. When someone has a medical emergency, they have a medical emergency.


I see your point, but what makes you think labor is a medical emergency?


Dead chick in ambulance. ER must know it's midwife birth (by which point it is too late) to discharge.
 
2012-04-26 08:52:41 PM

Indubitably: Silly Jesus: Indubitably: Silly Jesus: Kittypie070: I would not like to observe Silly Jesus getting into a nasty car accident where his wallet goes flying whee into the ditch utterly unobserved, and then listen to how nobly he complains about how very crass and rude he is to be making a claim upon the time of the doctor.

No, I would not enjoy that at all.

I'm not talking about COD medical care.

Interesting straw man though.

Don't you need to feed your cats or something? You seem to be stalking me recently.

'Cuz yer silly queso Jesus?

Heh.

I crack me up up on at least seven levels here, maybe eight.

Ah.

Love abounds.

;)

You are...um...strange. I kinda like it, though.

Are you typically inebriated in one way or another when you post or is this the "normal" Indubitably?

You created your account this year?

And you ask me questions easily researched via sociopathy?

Why would I answer anything?

Fear less?

Fearless.

Grow up, and welcome to FARK.

;)

P.S. I post in various states of consciousness, as do you, so before you begin to label me, please take a look at the label of your persona non gratiFARK, and ask yourself a fundamental question: do you believe in the power of FARK? Because if you do, you are walking on thin ice, wannabe...

P.P.S. Heh.


WOW
www.terrariaonline.com
 
2012-04-26 08:54:37 PM

SilentStrider: cman: America: Where its patriotic to not pay one's debts

As demonstrated by the presidency of Ronald Reagan.


And George W. Bush.
 
2012-04-26 08:57:56 PM
Well I will be f*ckdamned.
 
2012-04-26 08:58:33 PM

TV's Vinnie: Okay, come on now. This is the sort of inhumanity that aging Waffen SS officers and Argentinean Death Squad troopers would draw the line at.

And I also call bullsh*t as well. There's no way a collection agency goon can just waltz right into an emergency room and demand payment up front or the patient will be forced to bleed to death. Emergency rooms are REQUIRED BY LAW to provide care first and then work out the details about payment later.

If I went to visit a relative in the hospital and saw some collection agency punk leaning over the bed and bullying them to cough up money, the nurses would find that inhuman bastard limping out of the room with his hands cupped over his bleeding groin area.


No. They cannot turn away the ambulance. They only have treat you when they get around to it. The ER is very good at triage. If you ain't dying or birthing it is a long wait.
 
2012-04-26 09:00:23 PM
In the last month I've had a visit to Accident & Emergency, 6 blood tests, a visit to a GP, an ultrasound, a visit to a nurse practitioner, and I'm booked in for a CT scan next week.

So far, I've been charged £0.00. I will be charged £0.00.

What will it take you Americans to realise a nationalised health care system isn't communism, it's common SENSE? Maybe my taxes are a bit higher than yours, but so what? I live in a nice warm house, I eat good food, I have plenty of toys and entertainment, I can take holidays to lots of nice places, and I don't ever have to worry that I'll bankrupt myself if I get hurt or fall ill. If I ever have a problem, I pick up the phone and make an appointment with the doctor straight away and they'll see me within the week. If it's really urgent, I can phone up early in the morning and get seen in about 3 hours.

My taxes pay for low-income and unemployed folks, the mentally ill, and drug addicts (some might say that last one belongs in the third category anyway) to get the same standard of care I do. Should I care? Nope. Makes no difference to me. Heck, I'm happy they're healthy.

The last time I was in the US, visiting at friends' homes (a few normal, middle-class and one home owned by some millionaires), I was amazed at the amount of very pleasant but completely pointless junk you guys have. A TV in every room (including the bathroom in that one case). 10 pillows and 2 duvets on each bed. Stupid little nozzles up the sides of the shower. Frigging bagel toasters - do your ovens not have grills (or broilers or whatever the fark you call them)? A special little hose for washing dishes and a dishwasher right beside the sink anyway. You'd seriously gamble going bankrupt and being flung out of your homes just so you can have some extra disposable income for crap like that? Good luck with that.

Me, I think having to get (and having to kiss ass to keep) a job that includes health insurance and dental as a benefit is just another way for the overlords to keep you in line. YMMV.

/Oh yeah, I've still got plenty of money to pay the dentist too (so some poor folks can get it for free).
//Death panels? Pfff! No extreme measures please.
///I don't care about slashies - I can get 'em stitched for free!
 
2012-04-26 09:00:46 PM
I love how this thread has veered from the complete and utter unacceptability of debt collectors having access to your private medical files and trying to dissuade you from medical care unless you can come up with a payment, to "no single payer scheme" politics.

It's beyond outrageous that any debt collector can see your health records. Can't we agree on that?
 
2012-04-26 09:04:34 PM

change1211: Wow, that is just pathetic. Remind me again why socialized health care is a bad thing for the US?


I believe that the Official Republican Answer is: Because it's Socialism, and Russia had Socialism so that means that socialized medicine lead to Stalinist dictatorship and bread lines and gulags in Siberia, so if we allow it here we'll have Death Panels for Grandma and Government Bureaucrats taking away your Freedoms and we'll end up a communist dictatorship.

Seriously, that's pretty much their argument, trading on vintage Cold War-era fear of the word "socialism" to make people equate single-payer healthcare with Soviet-style government.
 
2012-04-26 09:05:07 PM

Kittypie070: Well I will be f*ckdamned.


I know, right? Amirite?

Bam AND Boom.

I am stunned.

;)
 
2012-04-26 09:06:40 PM

Subliterati: In the last month I've had a visit to Accident & Emergency, 6 blood tests, a visit to a GP, an ultrasound, a visit to a nurse practitioner, and I'm booked in for a CT scan next week.


So are you an amateur or a pro in the Wild Zombie F*cking League?
 
2012-04-26 09:07:22 PM
"And lo they beheld the field:

'twas ripe with the fallen shell,

broken-battled against the ground

unforgiven

;)"
 
2012-04-26 09:07:22 PM

greyw1980: kidgenius: Elandriel: cman: America: Where its patriotic to not pay one's debts

Will you give it a rest? The average person can't pay a goddamn $70,000 medical bill when they need emergency surgery and are in the ICU for a few days. That doesn't mean they're a deadbeat.

True.

But, there are the cases mentioned where people already have outstanding/past due accounts and are coming back for more care. If I'm the hospital, I would be pissed that I have to give care to this person that has already shown that they can't or won't pay for the thousands of dollars of service I'm about to give them.

There was this pregnant lady in Texas. Two hospitals turned away the the ambulance because they figured she wouldn't pay. Pregnant lady and baby die in the ambulance.

Congress, outraged, pasted a law that any hospital taking Medicare money cannot turn away a patient until stabilized.

Fast forward 30 years when just a doctor's visit costs two days wages (7.25 x 8 - (.15 x (7.25 x 8)) = 48 ish) this even when the visit is to say, yes you have sinus problems here is a Claritin D script or yes the kid is sick, here is your no truancy doctor note, costs 90.


This is real socialism here. Prices are high cause you're paying for everyone else who isn't paying. Isn't that what you want?
 
2012-04-26 09:08:53 PM
Indubitably 2012-04-26 09:05:07 PM


Kittypie070: Well I will be f*ckdamned.

I know, right? Amirite?

Bam AND Boom.

I am stunned.

;)


He said he'd shoot my cat if she was in his household

:'(
 
2012-04-26 09:09:47 PM

wheelofpain: greyw1980: kidgenius: Elandriel: cman: America: Where its patriotic to not pay one's debts

Will you give it a rest? The average person can't pay a goddamn $70,000 medical bill when they need emergency surgery and are in the ICU for a few days. That doesn't mean they're a deadbeat.

True.

But, there are the cases mentioned where people already have outstanding/past due accounts and are coming back for more care. If I'm the hospital, I would be pissed that I have to give care to this person that has already shown that they can't or won't pay for the thousands of dollars of service I'm about to give them.

There was this pregnant lady in Texas. Two hospitals turned away the the ambulance because they figured she wouldn't pay. Pregnant lady and baby die in the ambulance.

Congress, outraged, pasted a law that any hospital taking Medicare money cannot turn away a patient until stabilized.

Fast forward 30 years when just a doctor's visit costs two days wages (7.25 x 8 - (.15 x (7.25 x 8)) = 48 ish) this even when the visit is to say, yes you have sinus problems here is a Claritin D script or yes the kid is sick, here is your no truancy doctor note, costs 90.

This is real socialism here. Prices are high cause you're paying for everyone else who isn't paying. Isn't that what you want?


Simulpain for you, friendless...(unless yer joking)...

;)
 
2012-04-26 09:10:05 PM
Actual patient in hospital; "I know my rights!"

Doctor; "What?"

Patient; " The patient bill of rights. That I can order any test or treatment at any time, reguardless of what the doctor wants or thinks is nessisary."

Yeah, she wanted a CAT Scan and MRI and a whole bunch of other things she heard about on HOUSE.
 
2012-04-26 09:10:49 PM

Silly Jesus: Or, alternatively, they could be stopped from taking stealing it.


"...I will remember that I remain a member of society with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.

If I do not violate this oath, may I enjoy life and art, be respected while I live and remembered with affection thereafter.

May I always act so as to preserve the finest traditions of my calling and may I long experience the joy of healing those who seek my help.*"

* As long as they can afford it.
 
2012-04-26 09:11:29 PM
all so mitt romney can build a garage with an elevator in it.
 
2012-04-26 09:13:07 PM
Sickening.
 
2012-04-26 09:13:47 PM

Kittypie070: Indubitably 2012-04-26 09:05:07 PM


Kittypie070: Well I will be f*ckdamned.

I know, right? Amirite?

Bam AND Boom.

I am stunned.

;)

He said he'd shoot my cat if she was in his household

:'(


He did not.

Did he?

*sigh*

Sir.

You have impugned my cyber-friend, Kittay,

and that is a mistake, sir.

Surly you did not mean to do so, sir?

For if you did,

game over, queso.

Redux?

;)
 
2012-04-26 09:14:37 PM

ElizaDoolittle: I love how this thread has veered from the complete and utter unacceptability of debt collectors having access to your private medical files and trying to dissuade you from medical care unless you can come up with a payment, to "no single payer scheme" politics.

It's beyond outrageous that any debt collector can see your health records. Can't we agree on that?


Yes, and a lot of other stuff, too. Well, reasonable people can. Silly Jesus is silly (and not Jesus).
 
2012-04-26 09:16:11 PM
If you kill an animal,

you better be eatin' it,

defending yer life against it,

or bein' it.

Heh.
 
2012-04-26 09:17:42 PM

Fluorescent Testicle: KrispyKritter: you simply tell them you are the patients brother, uncle, some sort of direct relative.

For future reference - yeah, this doesn't work. I've tried a few times and was threatened with arrest for it, not to mention the slurs thrown my way after I gave up and walked off.


ouch! i'm very sorry to hear that. i've never experienced that myself; maybe the hospital folks in my area are more trusting of what people tell them. i've never had to show identification, nothing. that really sucks. it's painful enough knowing a loved one is hurting. not getting to see them and give some encouragement is like a kick in the groin after you've been punched in the throat.
 
2012-04-26 09:18:28 PM
*sigh*

[dispirited]
 
2012-04-26 09:24:21 PM

Mitch Taylor's Bro: Silly Jesus: Or, alternatively, they could be stopped from taking stealing it.

"...I will remember that I remain a member of society with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.

If I do not violate this oath, may I enjoy life and art, be respected while I live and remembered with affection thereafter.

May I always act so as to preserve the finest traditions of my calling and may I long experience the joy of healing those who seek my help.*"

* As long as they can afford it.


You can't eat good will.
 
2012-04-26 09:24:43 PM

Kittypie070: *sigh*

[dispirited]


why?
 
2012-04-26 09:27:51 PM

Silly Jesus: Do people truly believe that, by virtue of our very existence, we are entitled to a portion of the life of another?


Yes, it is called your mom.
 
2012-04-26 09:27:57 PM

Indubitably: Kittypie070: *sigh*

[dispirited]

why?


Because I shot her theoretical cat that was living at my house and trying to massacre my wild song birds.
 
2012-04-26 09:29:14 PM

Jormungandr: Silly Jesus: Do people truly believe that, by virtue of our very existence, we are entitled to a portion of the life of another?

Yes, it is called your mom.


Har. Har.

Other than family...
 
2012-04-26 09:29:35 PM

Silly Jesus: Mitch Taylor's Bro: Silly Jesus: Or, alternatively, they could be stopped from taking stealing it.

"...I will remember that I remain a member of society with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.

If I do not violate this oath, may I enjoy life and art, be respected while I live and remembered with affection thereafter.

May I always act so as to preserve the finest traditions of my calling and may I long experience the joy of healing those who seek my help.*"

* As long as they can afford it.

You can't eat good will.


Then don't take the damn oath.
 
2012-04-26 09:35:06 PM
Indubitably 2012-04-26 09:24:43 PM

Kittypie070: *sigh*

[dispirited]


why?



I just HAD to try to make a point about about wasting my time caring for a small creature that returned me no monetary profit.

How dare my parasitic cat make such vile and unprofitable claims on my time.
 
2012-04-26 09:43:36 PM

Ghurni: Silly Jesus: Mitch Taylor's Bro: Silly Jesus: Or, alternatively, they could be stopped from taking stealing it.

"...I will remember that I remain a member of society with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.

If I do not violate this oath, may I enjoy life and art, be respected while I live and remembered with affection thereafter.

May I always act so as to preserve the finest traditions of my calling and may I long experience the joy of healing those who seek my help.*"

* As long as they can afford it.

You can't eat good will.

Then don't take the damn oath.


So doctors, nurses etc. should work for free and that's what the oath advocates?
 
2012-04-26 09:43:54 PM

Kittypie070: Indubitably 2012-04-26 09:24:43 PM

Kittypie070: *sigh*

[dispirited]

why?


I just HAD to try to make a point about about wasting my time caring for a small creature that returned me no monetary profit.

How dare my parasitic cat make such vile and unprofitable claims on my time.


oh sweetie, no, apologies, you wasting your time caring for your cat is more than retardumblicans have given the plebes in years, so yer anger is righteously okayily. I support you whole-heartedly, for I have lovedly-known many kitties...and they deserve our love and respect. Seriously.

Ah, shiat, indubitably...

*smooch*

;)
 
2012-04-26 09:45:02 PM

Silly Jesus: Ghurni: Silly Jesus: Mitch Taylor's Bro: Silly Jesus: Or, alternatively, they could be stopped from taking stealing it.

"...I will remember that I remain a member of society with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.

If I do not violate this oath, may I enjoy life and art, be respected while I live and remembered with affection thereafter.

May I always act so as to preserve the finest traditions of my calling and may I long experience the joy of healing those who seek my help.*"

* As long as they can afford it.

You can't eat good will.

Then don't take the damn oath.

So doctors, nurses etc. should work for free and that's what the oath advocates?


You've been smoked.

Heartily.

;)
 
2012-04-26 09:45:09 PM

Kittypie070: How dare my parasitic cat make such vile and unprofitable claims on my time.



You need a republican cat. They still make vile and unprofitable claims on your time, but they blame the black cats for it.
 
2012-04-26 09:45:49 PM

Kittypie070: Indubitably 2012-04-26 09:24:43 PM

Kittypie070: *sigh*

[dispirited]

why?


I just HAD to try to make a point about about wasting my time caring for a small creature that returned me no monetary profit.

How dare my parasitic cat make such vile and unprofitable claims on my time.


Awwww Shucky Ducky!
 
2012-04-26 09:47:37 PM
She IS a black cat.

Thus, perhaps, already Republican and self-hating?
 
2012-04-26 09:48:02 PM
Your country blows.
 
2012-04-26 09:53:31 PM
what the hell?

Shucky....ducky?

Oh. I got it now.

Shucky Jesus is a mammon worshipper and probably a Randroid as well. That explains his pay up or die souk mentality.
 
2012-04-26 09:56:55 PM
*hugs Indubitably*

No one is saying do not pay your hospital bills.

The dispute is about debt collectors invading hospitals and making DEMANDS and issuing threats against people who are in need of medical care.
 
2012-04-26 10:00:07 PM

Kittypie070: She IS a black cat.

Thus, perhaps, already Republican and self-hating?


You're cat is Herman Cain? :-D
 
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