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(The New York Times)   Old and busted: Late night debt collection calls. New Hotness: Debt collectors in emergency rooms. Why, yes- there IS a lawsuit already pending   (nytimes.com) divider line 376
    More: Sick, emergency rooms, collection agency, hospital system, American Hospital Association, consumer advocacy, debt settlement, medical debts, health information  
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15605 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Apr 2012 at 4:43 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-26 06:38:32 PM

downstairs: I was responding to someone, who was responding to the person who said what you just quoted.


Oops. The quote system is a bit sketchy, here. Sorry.
 
2012-04-26 06:40:27 PM

bunner: downstairs: I was responding to someone, who was responding to the person who said what you just quoted.

Oops. The quote system is a bit sketchy, here. Sorry.


No prob.
 
2012-04-26 06:46:08 PM

zetar: cookiefleck: zetar: cookiefleck: Ima say something that isn't gonna be popular... people in debt are given more rights than the people they owe money to. Despite what either candidate says. These people are called "professional debtors". You can give them two, three, months to get their finances in order, but they won't.


This is because, once upon a time in America, people's rights were considered more important than money.

I would think giving 3 months of not having to pay your bills, interest free is pretty generous.

I have no idea what you're talking about. Is this about buying a living room set? This thread is about sick people and debt collectors in hospitals going through patient's medical records.

The buying furniture on an installment plan thread is two threads over.



Okay, maybe I was taught the wrong way, but to me, bills are bills. Doesn't matter if it's for the cable or your trip to the ER. Yes, one is more expensive than the other, but unfortunately, this country doesn't have free health care ( I'm in favor of free health care, btw). Until we do have free health care, pay what you owe. Most insurance companies don't want all of the balance at once unless you've been dodging them for a while
 
2012-04-26 06:48:58 PM

cookiefleck: Okay, so they have bills other than medical.. those bills should be waived? How much generosity should be given? Just waive all bills til the person gets better again?


The Jews used to have Jubilee. It was a shaking of the economic etch a sketch. And they were smart. Because it rebooted the economy and got money flowing again. ALL money is debt, these days, so why bother. Just keep racking those beads down that metal rod until the guy you sold three aspirins and gave a band-aid to has to mow your lawn for the rest of his life. I mean, that means you WIN, doesn't it?
 
2012-04-26 06:50:47 PM

Booface1985: (I teach, so I make less than her). Society would actually be better off if I died.


Teachers are worth far more to society than they get paid. Your efforts result in an increase in the future value of your students.

Lawyers, on the other hand, are worth far less than they get paid. Their efforts result in a decrease in the future value of your students. Well, for the most part.
 
2012-04-26 06:50:47 PM
When Obamacare is in place and those same debt collectors in those same emergency rooms are called government agents instead, all the liberals on here will be just fine with that. Same person doing the same thing, just under a different title. And with the full force and power of the feds behind him.
 
2012-04-26 06:51:45 PM

cookiefleck: zetar: cookiefleck: zetar: cookiefleck: Ima say something that isn't gonna be popular... people in debt are given more rights than the people they owe money to. Despite what either candidate says. These people are called "professional debtors". You can give them two, three, months to get their finances in order, but they won't.


This is because, once upon a time in America, people's rights were considered more important than money.

I would think giving 3 months of not having to pay your bills, interest free is pretty generous.

I have no idea what you're talking about. Is this about buying a living room set? This thread is about sick people and debt collectors in hospitals going through patient's medical records.

The buying furniture on an installment plan thread is two threads over.


Okay, maybe I was taught the wrong way, but to me, bills are bills. Doesn't matter if it's for the cable or your trip to the ER. Yes, one is more expensive than the other, but unfortunately, this country doesn't have free health care ( I'm in favor of free health care, btw). Until we do have free health care, pay what you owe. Most insurance companies don't want all of the balance at once unless you've been dodging them for a while


Most people don't really get to decide when they get sick or injured and incur huge medical bills.
 
2012-04-26 06:51:48 PM
People want every possible treatment and medication whether they need it or not. Doctors spend years and hundreds of thousands of dollars cramming their heads with information, after which many of them display only a minimal level of competency. Lawyers advertise night and day, encouraging people to sue for malpractice.

The system is clearly broken. At this point only one solution provides the broad and comprehensive change needed to completely reform our current antiquated and inefficient healthcare system - legalize weed.
 
2012-04-26 06:52:08 PM

SlothB77: When Obamacare is in place and those same debt collectors in those same emergency rooms are called government agents instead, all the liberals on here will be just fine with that. Same person doing the same thing, just under a different title. And with the full force and power of the feds behind him.


Nobody wins. I can prove it. Seriously, the partisan hack thing is as useless as titties on a fish.
 
2012-04-26 06:53:27 PM

cookiefleck: zetar: cookiefleck: zetar: cookiefleck: Until we do have free health care, pay what you owe. Most insurance companies don't want all of the balance at once unless you've been dodging them for a while


My sister was out of town for a cycling event a few years ago, and ended up smashing into the back of an SUV (we'll leave out the long story but suffice to say it was not her fault and she was hurt badly). Had she not had insurance, she'd have been liable for $130,000+

You're saying everyone should just go ahead and pay that out of pocket immediately? Because most of us would not be able to. Even though her job pays fairly well, that's 3 years salary BEFORE living expenses and taxes are taken out...
 
2012-04-26 06:53:31 PM

CommieTaoist: America: Where only the rich deserve to live.


You say that like it's a bad thing.
 
2012-04-26 06:54:21 PM

cookiefleck: insertsnarkyusername: cookiefleck: zetar: cookiefleck: Ima say something that isn't gonna be popular... people in debt are given more rights than the people they owe money to. Despite what either candidate says. These people are called "professional debtors". You can give them two, three, months to get their finances in order, but they won't.


This is because, once upon a time in America, people's rights were considered more important than money.

I would think giving 3 months of not having to pay your bills, interest free is pretty generous.

Yes because people living paycheck to paycheck and had to take time off due to injury or illness can easily pay thousands of dollars in medical bills in a 3 month period. All they have to do is magically get a better job, not eat or live out of their car. Just so farking selfish of them.


Okay, so they have bills other than medical.. those bills should be waived? How much generosity should be given? Just waive all bills til the person gets better again?


So debtor's prison then? Not to mention that for most people it's literally impossible to pay for a large medical bill in 3 months even if they spend every single penny they earn on it.

/I've been trolled
 
2012-04-26 06:54:25 PM
cman 2012-04-26 03:05:10 PM


cman: America: Where its patriotic to not pay one's debts

Elandriel: SMACK!!

cman: My smug sneering pseudo-apologies, this is what my holy neo-con Ma$ter$ told me was "humor". I wanted to chap your asses.



Fixed it for you, you damned wind-up sh*tparrot.
 
2012-04-26 06:54:26 PM

bunner: cookiefleck: Okay, so they have bills other than medical.. those bills should be waived? How much generosity should be given? Just waive all bills til the person gets better again?

The Jews used to have Jubilee. It was a shaking of the economic etch a sketch. And they were smart. Because it rebooted the economy and got money flowing again. ALL money is debt, these days, so why bother. Just keep racking those beads down that metal rod until the guy you sold three aspirins and gave a band-aid to has to mow your lawn for the rest of his life. I mean, that means you WIN, doesn't it?


I have no clue what point you tried to make there, but make minimum payments as a show of goodwill.. not, "I won't make anypayments at all" which, sadly, is how most people view things.
 
2012-04-26 06:57:22 PM

cookiefleck: bunner: cookiefleck: Okay, so they have bills other than medical.. those bills should be waived? How much generosity should be given? Just waive all bills til the person gets better again?

The Jews used to have Jubilee. It was a shaking of the economic etch a sketch. And they were smart. Because it rebooted the economy and got money flowing again. ALL money is debt, these days, so why bother. Just keep racking those beads down that metal rod until the guy you sold three aspirins and gave a band-aid to has to mow your lawn for the rest of his life. I mean, that means you WIN, doesn't it?

I have no clue what point you tried to make there, but make minimum payments as a show of goodwill.. not, "I won't make anypayments at all" which, sadly, is how most people view things.


Simple. When all money is debt, which is the focus of this thread, it becomes moot. And Jubilee was a huge forgiveness of debt. Which is a lot smarter than a nation that metes out health care in dribs and drabs at a price that offers nothing but fiscal subjugation to the people who need it.
 
2012-04-26 06:58:44 PM
No, I'm not saying pay the balance immediately, most companies, if you actually choose to answer the phone, will work with you on a payment plan. Unfortunately, yes, you will have to pay.
 
2012-04-26 07:02:46 PM
It's time to shake the etch a sketch, folks. Happens in all cultures and societies like clockwork. It can be a useful and promising event full of renewal that is then, wisely, built into the fabric of the economy or it can be one more huge, ugly, violent, scorched earth clusterf*ck. Most revolutions, as history has taught us, are. But only the stupidest, most gullible and deluded and ill read among us can possibly think that this crippled, grasping, begging, disingenuous mess can just keep chugging along until we pull the Next Great Leap Forward™ out of our asses and get to buy more stuff.
 
2012-04-26 07:06:58 PM

Englebert Slaptyback: overmortal

Maybe I'm out of line here, but if my wife (who is soon to give birth to our daughter) were to go to the ER in labor and someone said "I'll need you to write a check before we can see you.", the first thing I'm going to do is get myself arrested for beating the shiat out of that smarmy a-hole. When someone has a medical emergency, they have a medical emergency.


I see your point, but what makes you think labor is a medical emergency?


The mother of my grandson went onto labor at 25 weeks. It was a high risk pregnancy that became an emergency c section to save the life of my grandson. He was life flighted to a childrens hospital and r emained there till his death ten days later. HOW IS THAT NOT AN EMERGENCY? Would you have his mother squat down and push till he was born then take a cab to the hospital while giving cpr to her baby who could not breath? You clueless moron. Perhaps they should have denied care till my son put down a hundred thousand dollar deposit. People like you are too willfully ignorant and evil to be allowed to exist in civilized society.
You should be put down.
 
2012-04-26 07:07:36 PM

Booface1985: I'm pretty sure they have more than just "access." I'm pretty sure that these folks run the show now.

A few years back, girlfriend got appendicitis. We were both young, working through college, from low-income families, so neither of us had insurance. A cheap medical clinic told her she was on her period, and then she passed out for about 2 days. When she woke up, her appendix had burst and gone septic, it was clear it was serious, so we went to the ER.

They asked for payment up front, of course. When we couldn't, they struck us in the waiting room for about 15 hours. At one point, they asked me to move her (she passed out) to the bathroom so she wouldn't be in the way.

Once they finally admitted us, they put us in a room and ignored us for 20 more hours. Finally, they did a laparascopic appendectomy and discharged her. Those are a cheaper method used for mild appendicitis--when someone has gone septic for 3 days it's basically missing the point.

So, of course, a few days later, she's passing out turning yellow, so we go to a new hospital. They give her some painkillers and discharge her. So we go to another. That one finally admits us (after another similar process), and gives her the correct surgery. They botch it.

So it's back to ER-hopping to correct the mistakes of that surgery. Then months of recovery. All told, she gets in the hole a few hundred thousand dollars. Basically, the annual interest was more than she had any hope of making in a year, so we handled the debt by ignoring the phone or the mail.

We tried to sue, but most of the places we went to lost the relevant medical records that would've given us a shot , and anyway lawyers don't like to take cases that don't involve death or permanent disability because the payout is so much less (to them, I assume. To us, recouping our costs would've been great).

So, that's my rant. Well, maybe it's not. Unrelated, but to get it off my chest, it's 6 years later and she got diagnosed with MS. FOr 90 days of ...

========================

That''s the kind of thing that would push me over the edge. For the life of me, I can't understand what it will take to get a revolution going in this country.
 
2012-04-26 07:08:35 PM
I think that a lot of people don't know where healthcare comes from. They don't see it as a commodity. Yes, the system is broken, but a great deal of people, with emergencies and non-emergencies, don't see the cost of their treatment as a real thing. They think that "oh well, I can't pay" just makes it all go away and the hospital continues on unscathed. You just received a good/service for free, that means that someone just worked for you for free. At some point people can't work for free anymore.

And who is to say that you are entitled to the uncompensated labor of another man/woman to begin with? By virtue of you being born are you automatically entitled to whatever portion of another man/woman's life that it takes to keep you in good health?

On the one hand I can't see turning someone away that truly needs help...
BUT
I also can't see saying "hey, you, come here and give me a portion of your life, I am entitled to it."

Do people truly believe that, by virtue of our very existence, we are entitled to a portion of the life of another?
 
2012-04-26 07:09:40 PM

cookiefleck: Okay, maybe I was taught the wrong way, but to me, bills are bills. Doesn't matter if it's for the cable or your trip to the ER. Yes, one is more expensive than the other, but unfortunately, this country doesn't have free health care ( I'm in favor of free health care, btw). Until we do have free health care, pay what you owe. Most insurance companies don't want all of the balance at once unless you've been dodging them for a while



You seem like a nice enough person but you're arguing a position from naivete. You argue that a cable bill and hospital bill are the same. They aren't.

For starters you know in advance what cable is going to charge you each month (give or take $10). However, every time you walk in to a hospital it's spin the magic bill wheel. You have absolutely no idea what you're going to be charged or how much (or if at all) your insurance company is going to pay.

Obviously, I have a CSB. After paying Blue Cross over $300k for insurance since 1985 (and Blue Cross paying out about $50k in hospital bills) they cancelled me the day I was diagnosed with stage 3 kidney disease (surprise!) leaving me with a ton of bills.

Similarly, a recent story showed that when hospitals spin the magic bill wheel a patient can be charged anywhere from $1,500 to $182,000 for the same procedure! Link pops.

There are many reasons that hospital bills are not the same as cable bills. My sincere advice, Cookiefleck, is get out of this argument before you dig a much deeper hole for yourself.
 
2012-04-26 07:10:56 PM

ladyfortuna: cookiefleck: zetar: cookiefleck: zetar: cookiefleck: Until we do have free health care, pay what you owe. Most insurance companies don't want all of the balance at once unless you've been dodging them for a while

My sister was out of town for a cycling event a few years ago, and ended up smashing into the back of an SUV (we'll leave out the long story but suffice to say it was not her fault and she was hurt badly). Had she not had insurance, she'd have been liable for $130,000+

You're saying everyone should just go ahead and pay that out of pocket immediately? Because most of us would not be able to. Even though her job pays fairly well, that's 3 years salary BEFORE living expenses and taxes are taken out...


I know this isn't relevant but how did someone else cause her to run into the back of a car?
 
2012-04-26 07:13:12 PM

Silly Jesus: Do people truly believe that, by virtue of our very existence, we are entitled to a portion of the life of another?


No.

We are, however - and this may cause excessive harrumphing - obliged to aide and give comfort to our fellow human beings, should we wish to retain the title.

Individual lives end. It's a fatal condition. Nobody wins.

What we bring to the table in between check in and check out that contributes to the quality of that precious gift is it's very raison d'être. If you just brought a fork and a deep seated need to piss and moan about the menu, you lost the plot.
 
2012-04-26 07:16:37 PM

porterm: . gonna have to check my credit report to make sure i dont get dinged for thier mistake.


Do that, and do it soon. It's worth the time spent.

There is a woman in our town who has the same first and last name my wife does, and they share the same middle initial as well. Different middle name, birthdate, and SS# though. When we went to buy our first house there were FIVE incorrect entries on my wife's report. ( this other woman )

Turns out the lady is a professional deadbeat. I have lost count of how many calls and threatening letters we have received over the years. Now, once a year we pull my wife's credit report to check it over, and more often than not there is something there that needs to be removed.

CSSB: last week I received a bundle of "legal notices" from a collection agency in Pennsylvania that literally filled my not-small mailbox. After determining they had the wrong person *again* I used them as charcoal starter.
 
2012-04-26 07:18:35 PM

bunner: and this may cause excessive harrumphing


I harrumph at you, sir.

Harrumph!
 
2012-04-26 07:18:59 PM
Hey, can we have a lottery to win 100% comprehensive insurance coverage for life? The funds not paid out could help pay the bills of the un-insured.

/Worked so well for schools right...
 
2012-04-26 07:19:16 PM

bunner: Silly Jesus: Do people truly believe that, by virtue of our very existence, we are entitled to a portion of the life of another?

No.

We are, however - and this may cause excessive harrumphing - obliged to aide and give comfort to our fellow human beings, should we wish to retain the title.

Individual lives end. It's a fatal condition. Nobody wins.

What we bring to the table in between check in and check out that contributes to the quality of that precious gift is it's very raison d'être. If you just brought a fork and a deep seated need to piss and moan about the menu, you lost the plot.


That was eloquent, and I tend to agree with it, but if it addressed my point, I missed it.

/no snark
 
2012-04-26 07:25:20 PM

CUZN_Ovoids: Hey, can we have a lottery to win 100% comprehensive insurance coverage for life? The funds not paid out could help pay the bills of the un-insured.

/Worked so well for schools right...


I've got a better idea! How about instead of taking a bunch of people's money and using it to give one person health care why don't you take some of everyone's money and give everyone health care?
 
2012-04-26 07:26:02 PM

Silly Jesus: if it addressed my point, I missed it.


Silly Jesus: Do people truly believe that, by virtue of our very existence, we are entitled to a portion of the life of another?

Bunner: No. However.

If money is one's life, then one bought the con and if money is one's god, one has a piss poor god. Money is a tool, not a deity. We owe our humane shoulder put to the wheel of humanity, yes.
 
2012-04-26 07:27:13 PM

change1211: I've got a better idea! How about instead of taking a bunch of people's money and using it to give one person health care why don't you take some of everyone's money and give everyone health care?


Needs a profit motive. Can't have money moving around doing useful things unless somebody gets rich.
 
2012-04-26 07:27:35 PM

Silly Jesus: I think that a lot of people don't know where healthcare comes from. They don't see it as a commodity. Yes, the system is broken, but a great deal of people, with emergencies and non-emergencies, don't see the cost of their treatment as a real thing. They think that "oh well, I can't pay" just makes it all go away and the hospital continues on unscathed. You just received a good/service for free, that means that someone just worked for you for free. At some point people can't work for free anymore.

And who is to say that you are entitled to the uncompensated labor of another man/woman to begin with? By virtue of you being born are you automatically entitled to whatever portion of another man/woman's life that it takes to keep you in good health?

On the one hand I can't see turning someone away that truly needs help...
BUT
I also can't see saying "hey, you, come here and give me a portion of your life, I am entitled to it."

Do people truly believe that, by virtue of our very existence, we are entitled to a portion of the life of another?


So what do you suggest the poor (or even the middle-class) do? Die and decrease the surplus population?
 
2012-04-26 07:29:42 PM

Silly Jesus: I think that a lot of people don't know where healthcare comes from. They don't see it as a commodity. Yes, the system is broken, but a great deal of people, with emergencies and non-emergencies, don't see the cost of their treatment as a real thing. They think that "oh well, I can't pay" just makes it all go away and the hospital continues on unscathed. You just received a good/service for free, that means that someone just worked for you for free. At some point people can't work for free anymore.

And who is to say that you are entitled to the uncompensated labor of another man/woman to begin with? By virtue of you being born are you automatically entitled to whatever portion of another man/woman's life that it takes to keep you in good health?

On the one hand I can't see turning someone away that truly needs help...
BUT
I also can't see saying "hey, you, come here and give me a portion of your life, I am entitled to it."

Do people truly believe that, by virtue of our very existence, we are entitled to a portion of the life of another?


Last time I went to the ER 5 stitches and and a shot of novocain cost me 600 dollars. This isn't even mentioning the fact that after the injection I waited for 2 hours for a doctor to come back. When she did I was told I could have another but it'd be about another hour and she didn't know when she'd be back. Next time I'm coming in without ID and giving fake info. Start making prices approaching something reasonable and I'll agree with you.

/45 minutes of labor involved, 15 minutes for the doc and 15 minutes each for 2 people who may have or may not have been nurses to grill me about payment info until I started shouting at them to sew my farking hand up and showing them the visible bone.
 
2012-04-26 07:30:22 PM
Silly Jesus 2012-04-26 07:08:35 PM

I also can't see saying "hey, you, come here and give me a portion of your life, I am entitled to it."

Do people truly believe that, by virtue of our very existence, we are entitled to a portion of the life of another?


Do you have a family?
 
2012-04-26 07:31:01 PM

bunner: Silly Jesus: if it addressed my point, I missed it.

Silly Jesus: Do people truly believe that, by virtue of our very existence, we are entitled to a portion of the life of another?

Bunner: No. However.

If money is one's life, then one bought the con and if money is one's god, one has a piss poor god. Money is a tool, not a deity. We owe our humane shoulder put to the wheel of humanity, yes.


Ok, then your answer is yes. And I'm not speaking solely of money here either, but based on your responses you believe that as a birthright I am entitled to a portion of the life of others, be that in the form of time or money or otherwise.
 
2012-04-26 07:32:13 PM

Let me, briefly, run down the last forty years of the particular flavor of neoCON we all sucked down with a drink straw as fast as we could.

"You wanna be rich, don't ya?"

"Uh, yeah, sure, I guess so!"

"Well then all you have to do is let us rich folks get a littler richer, first! That's sounds fair, doesn't it?"

thejohnkeenan.files.wordpress.com

Ah, ha ha! Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?"
 
2012-04-26 07:33:28 PM

ashinmytomatoes: Silly Jesus: I think that a lot of people don't know where healthcare comes from. They don't see it as a commodity. Yes, the system is broken, but a great deal of people, with emergencies and non-emergencies, don't see the cost of their treatment as a real thing. They think that "oh well, I can't pay" just makes it all go away and the hospital continues on unscathed. You just received a good/service for free, that means that someone just worked for you for free. At some point people can't work for free anymore.

And who is to say that you are entitled to the uncompensated labor of another man/woman to begin with? By virtue of you being born are you automatically entitled to whatever portion of another man/woman's life that it takes to keep you in good health?

On the one hand I can't see turning someone away that truly needs help...
BUT
I also can't see saying "hey, you, come here and give me a portion of your life, I am entitled to it."

Do people truly believe that, by virtue of our very existence, we are entitled to a portion of the life of another?

So what do you suggest the poor (or even the middle-class) do? Die and decrease the surplus population?


I don't know the answer to the quandary.
 
2012-04-26 07:34:02 PM

Silly Jesus: Ok, then your answer is yes. And I'm not speaking solely of money here either, but based on your responses you believe that as a birthright I am entitled to a portion of the life of others, be that in the form of time or money or otherwise.


No, my answer is you are entitled to humane treatment as a member of humanity and to be given such as you would give and have given. Trying to staple your false dichotomy to me is going to give you a sore wrist.
 
2012-04-26 07:36:06 PM

Silly Jesus: I don't know the answer to the quandary.


Well, I can't help but thinking that a return to the notion that greed, flinty avarice and Dickensian cruelty in the name of profit as being something abhorrent would be a good start.
 
2012-04-26 07:38:56 PM

insertsnarkyusername: Silly Jesus: I think that a lot of people don't know where healthcare comes from. They don't see it as a commodity. Yes, the system is broken, but a great deal of people, with emergencies and non-emergencies, don't see the cost of their treatment as a real thing. They think that "oh well, I can't pay" just makes it all go away and the hospital continues on unscathed. You just received a good/service for free, that means that someone just worked for you for free. At some point people can't work for free anymore.

And who is to say that you are entitled to the uncompensated labor of another man/woman to begin with? By virtue of you being born are you automatically entitled to whatever portion of another man/woman's life that it takes to keep you in good health?

On the one hand I can't see turning someone away that truly needs help...
BUT
I also can't see saying "hey, you, come here and give me a portion of your life, I am entitled to it."

Do people truly believe that, by virtue of our very existence, we are entitled to a portion of the life of another?

Last time I went to the ER 5 stitches and and a shot of novocain cost me 600 dollars. This isn't even mentioning the fact that after the injection I waited for 2 hours for a doctor to come back. When she did I was told I could have another but it'd be about another hour and she didn't know when she'd be back. Next time I'm coming in without ID and giving fake info. Start making prices approaching something reasonable and I'll agree with you.

/45 minutes of labor involved, 15 minutes for the doc and 15 minutes each for 2 people who may have or may not have been nurses to grill me about payment info until I started shouting at them to sew my farking hand up and showing them the visible bone.


Generally if someone does not like the price of a good or service, they don't get said good or service. You, on the other hand, have stated that you will not only demand the time and services of these people, but you will do it with no intention of compensating them (fake ID).

"I don't like that you priced your milk at $5/gallon, and you took too long to bring it to me, so next time I'm going to come in and just steal it."
 
2012-04-26 07:39:47 PM
When I first read the headline I was picturing some sleazy collection agency somehow finding out you're in the hospital and bothering people about some debt. However, if it's a collector for the hospital you're currently in trying to collect money you owe for a previous visit, I see no problem with this.

They're required by law to provide emergency medical treatment regardless of your ability to pay, nowhere does it say they cant hound you for payment, current or past, while they're at it.
 
2012-04-26 07:40:10 PM

Kittypie070: Silly Jesus 2012-04-26 07:08:35 PM

I also can't see saying "hey, you, come here and give me a portion of your life, I am entitled to it."

Do people truly believe that, by virtue of our very existence, we are entitled to a portion of the life of another?

Do you have a family?


Yes. And one of them is someone whose life a great many people feel that they are entitled to a portion of.
 
2012-04-26 07:40:20 PM

kronicfeld: cman: Do you know what the best way is to avoid a debt collector?

Pay your bills?


Wrong wrong wrong wrong. Wrong wrong wrong wrong.
 
2012-04-26 07:42:17 PM

bunner: Silly Jesus: Ok, then your answer is yes. And I'm not speaking solely of money here either, but based on your responses you believe that as a birthright I am entitled to a portion of the life of others, be that in the form of time or money or otherwise.

No, my answer is you are entitled to humane treatment as a member of humanity and to be given such as you would give and have given. Trying to staple your false dichotomy to me is going to give you a sore wrist.


In the context of this discussion, though, does free healthcare not fit into the category of "humane treatment."

Not trying to staple you to anything, that was genuinely the way I read what you wrote.
 
2012-04-26 07:42:45 PM

karmaceutical: Just another wonder facet of capitalism. Can't socialize the distribution of health care, no sir. Why yes, it is a great time for insurance companies to be buying up hospitals. Nothing at all perverse about that. They can't make enough money on Wall Street like they did in the old days.


Health care will probably be the next bubble to pop after housing (c.2008)

/ or student loans...
 
2012-04-26 07:43:10 PM

Silly Jesus: insertsnarkyusername: Silly Jesus: I think that a lot of people don't know where healthcare comes from. They don't see it as a commodity. Yes, the system is broken, but a great deal of people, with emergencies and non-emergencies, don't see the cost of their treatment as a real thing. They think that "oh well, I can't pay" just makes it all go away and the hospital continues on unscathed. You just received a good/service for free, that means that someone just worked for you for free. At some point people can't work for free anymore.

And who is to say that you are entitled to the uncompensated labor of another man/woman to begin with? By virtue of you being born are you automatically entitled to whatever portion of another man/woman's life that it takes to keep you in good health?

On the one hand I can't see turning someone away that truly needs help...
BUT
I also can't see saying "hey, you, come here and give me a portion of your life, I am entitled to it."

Do people truly believe that, by virtue of our very existence, we are entitled to a portion of the life of another?

Last time I went to the ER 5 stitches and and a shot of novocain cost me 600 dollars. This isn't even mentioning the fact that after the injection I waited for 2 hours for a doctor to come back. When she did I was told I could have another but it'd be about another hour and she didn't know when she'd be back. Next time I'm coming in without ID and giving fake info. Start making prices approaching something reasonable and I'll agree with you.

/45 minutes of labor involved, 15 minutes for the doc and 15 minutes each for 2 people who may have or may not have been nurses to grill me about payment info until I started shouting at them to sew my farking hand up and showing them the visible bone.

Generally if someone does not like the price of a good or service, they don't get said good or service. You, on the other hand, have stated that you will not only demand the time and services of these ...


I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have died without milk.

Troll.
 
2012-04-26 07:44:46 PM

bunner: Silly Jesus: I don't know the answer to the quandary.

Well, I can't help but thinking that a return to the notion that greed, flinty avarice and Dickensian cruelty in the name of profit as being something abhorrent would be a good start.


I am not speaking of profit. I am speaking of time. A portion of the life of that Dr. and nurse etc. is being taken away without compensation. That adds up. I don't feel that I am any more entitled to demand that a Dr. provide me his time free of charge than I feel that I would be right to demand that a mechanic provide me his.
 
2012-04-26 07:45:59 PM

bunner: Silly Jesus: Generally if someone does not like the price of a good or service, they don't get said good or service.

[briobirth.com image 250x250]

[www.pop-campaign.co.uk image 640x480]

What goods and services might look like.

Now that I know you're trolling, I'm just gonna make some popcorn.


So you are entitled to the time of the Dr.?
 
2012-04-26 07:46:20 PM

Silly Jesus: bunner: Silly Jesus: I don't know the answer to the quandary.

Well, I can't help but thinking that a return to the notion that greed, flinty avarice and Dickensian cruelty in the name of profit as being something abhorrent would be a good start.

I am not speaking of profit. I am speaking of time. A portion of the life of that Dr. and nurse etc. is being taken away without compensation. That adds up. I don't feel that I am any more entitled to demand that a Dr. provide me his time free of charge than I feel that I would be right to demand that a mechanic provide me his.


So you're saying if someone doesn't pay their bill the doctor/nurse makes no money? Wouldn't the hospital be paying the doctor/nurse their hourly salary?

Troll.
 
2012-04-26 07:46:23 PM
Until fairly recently, never thought I'd be sympathetic towards deadbeats, but every new thing I hear about debt collectors changes my mind about that.
 
2012-04-26 07:47:27 PM

Silly Jesus: bunner: Silly Jesus: I don't know the answer to the quandary.

Well, I can't help but thinking that a return to the notion that greed, flinty avarice and Dickensian cruelty in the name of profit as being something abhorrent would be a good start.

I am not speaking of profit. I am speaking of time. A portion of the life of that Dr. and nurse etc. is being taken away without compensation. That adds up. I don't feel that I am any more entitled to demand that a Dr. provide me his time free of charge than I feel that I would be right to demand that a mechanic provide me his.


Yeah, because changing spark plugs is a life and death matter. We get it... Carry on.

29.media.tumblr.com
 
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