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(Slate)   Microsoft unveils Microsoft Stores to compete with Apple Stores. They will be recognizable by the numerous blue windows   (slate.com) divider line 149
    More: Cool, Microsoft Research, Microsoft, Apple, Apple Stores, Microsoft software  
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3129 clicks; posted to Geek » on 26 Apr 2012 at 1:30 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-26 09:03:40 PM

theurge14: bingethinker: It looked like Microsoft management couldn't believe that anybody would buy an iPod if a half-assed Microsoft equivalent was available.

Well, there has been over 25 years of precedence in the Windows world with this. Why buy a $1500 Macbook when you can go down to Walmart and get a $450 Dell knockoff? What, they do the same thing right?


Your copypasta is irrelevant. My hair is giving you the bird.
 
2012-04-26 09:09:28 PM

Kazan: theurge14:

tell me.. what am i paying that extra $1100 for?

Thanks for missing the point. You should sell Zunes.

You're dodging the question by trying to chuck it back at me.... tell me what i'm paying $1100 extra for?


Microsoft Store will focus on consumer electronics the same as the Apple Store. The spec war has failed competitors in consumer electronics since the first iPod came out. Feel free to continue to assume the consumer electronics market will follow the PC market. Please don't expect me to rehash a completely unrelated topic such as yours that has been done to death in a million other Apple-Microsoft Fark threads.

PS: you're not allowed to revise history, like you have attempted to in the past

Have no idea what you're talking about.
 
2012-04-26 09:14:02 PM

Kazan: theurge14: bingethinker: It looked like Microsoft management couldn't believe that anybody would buy an iPod if a half-assed Microsoft equivalent was available.

Well, there has been over 25 years of precedence in the Windows world with this. Why buy a $1500 Macbook when you can go down to Walmart and get a $450 Dell knockoff? What, they do the same thing right?


Beefiest macbook i could find on newegg - $2400 ( Link )
OS X v10.7 Lion
Intel Core i7 2.4Ghz
17" 1920x1080 monitor
4GB DDR3-1333
DVD+-RW
Radeon HD 6770M w/ 1GB GDDR5
Gigabit LAN and a/g/n WLAN
750GB 5400rpm SATA drive

Equivalent PC [actually better] HP ENVY 17-3070N - $1300 ( Link )

Windows 7 Home Premium (64)
Intel Core i7 2.20ghz [turbo mode to 3.1ghz]
17.3" 1920x1080 monitor
8GB DDR3 1600
BD-ROM / DVD+-RW
AMD Radeon HD 7690 w/ 1GB
Gigabit LAN and a/g/n WLAN
750GB 7200rpm SATA drive



tell me.. what am i paying that extra $1100 for?


User experience? Super super apple quality? It's not worth it to me. I took a friend who was thinking about an Apple to the Microsoft store and she bought a PC that day. Same specs (with more RAM... why does Apple always skimp on the RAM?) as the MacBook she was looking at, but at a little less than half the price with the promotion they were running. $680 out the door with Office.
 
2012-04-26 09:16:42 PM

bingethinker: theurge14: bingethinker: It looked like Microsoft management couldn't believe that anybody would buy an iPod if a half-assed Microsoft equivalent was available.

Well, there has been over 25 years of precedence in the Windows world with this. Why buy a $1500 Macbook when you can go down to Walmart and get a $450 Dell knockoff? What, they do the same thing right?

Your copypasta is irrelevant. My hair is giving you the bird.


i.imgur.com

Mind if I squirt you a song?
 
2012-04-26 09:36:45 PM

theurge14:
Well, there has been over 25 years of precedence in the Windows world with this. Why buy a $1500 Macbook when you can go down to Walmart and get a $450 Dell knockoff? What, they do the same thing right?


No they dont, at least in my experience. The $1500 MBP will, when you first turn it on, greet you, ask you to make a user, join a wireless network and pretty much drop you off at the desktop once you register it (and select no, to a TM restore).

The $450 Dell knock off will, when you first turn it on, greet you, shiat itself and then make odd noises from the fan until you slap it 'just so', once you've stopped it doing that it will walk you through a similar procedure to the Mac. It will drop you off at the desktop. Then it'll bombard you with 'value add' crap and grind to a halt whilst trying to load everything from the nastiest drive they could find. It may well fall apart at this point.

In some respect the much cheaper Dell does more than the $1500 MBP. I'm not totally convinced the Dell's additional 'features' are entirely useful but it's something your average MBP won't do. Neither am I convinced that someone shopping, specifically at Wal-Mart and specifically in the $400 range would be even remotely interested in an Apple machine.
 
2012-04-26 09:45:05 PM

Kazan:
tell me.. what am i paying that extra $1100 for?


Weight, battery life, construction materials, construction quality, keyboard quality (subjective), display quality (subjective), trackpad quality (subjective). Warranty, support in native language. No 'value add' bollocks, what software the Mac comes with is actually useful, doesn't time out or demand credit card information. Power brick size, power brick total energy draw. Resale value.

None of which the specs posted cover. How you are going to show the Envy has a better keyboard than the Mac I've zero idea as it would require ME to have physical access to both machines and test; it's a really subjective.
 
2012-04-26 09:55:17 PM

Vaneshi: Weight


1 lb difference.. couldn't give less a shiat

Vaneshi: battery life


the $1300 is rated for up to twice the battery life.. it's minimum life is the rated life of the $2400 mbp

Vaneshi: construction materials


bullshiat.. same intel hardware

Vaneshi: construction quality


bullshiat.. same intel hardware

Vaneshi: keyboard quality (subjective), display quality (subjective), trackpad quality (subjective)


at least you tagged these as subjective

Vaneshi: Warranty


bs

Vaneshi: support in native language


windows supports way more languages than os/x

Vaneshi: No 'value add' bollocks,

buy from the MS store.. they MS store removes any crapware put on by the vendor.. or buy Asus they don't put any crapware on last i checked

Vaneshi: what software the Mac comes with is actually useful,


oh bollocks..

Vaneshi: Power brick size, power brick total energy draw.


well yeah.. weaker overpriced shiat is going to draw less power so have a smaller brick... am i supposed to be impressed?

Vaneshi: None of which the specs posted cover. How you are going to show the Envy has a better keyboard than the Mac I've zero idea as it would require ME to have physical access to both machines and test; it's a really subjective.


from lookin at the images i'll instantly give the envy the edge.. it actually has a full keyboard.
 
2012-04-26 10:11:28 PM
www.iphonexpert.com

Drink C04E
 
2012-04-26 10:16:45 PM
when the store closes does it get a BSOD?
 
2012-04-26 10:17:54 PM

Kazan: theurge14: bingethinker: It looked like Microsoft management couldn't believe that anybody would buy an iPod if a half-assed Microsoft equivalent was available.


tell me.. what am i paying that extra $1100 for?


I'll give you my reasons (although I buy my Apple's second hand, think Apple does charge a little too much)

1 - Getting a computer without Windows
2 - Getting a computer without crapware (not MS's fault)
3 - Getting a UNIX system with a usable GUI. I want to be able to do things (SSH, SFTP, NFS, mount ISO images, boot to command line (sometimes)) without extra hassle
4 - My Apple computers seem to have held up better then PCs. My G4 PowerMac, G3 iBook, and MBP 1,1 all still function (not all still useful, Flash sucks on PPC). My Windows systems in that frame (Gateway Desktop (P4), Toshiba latptops (Pentium M and Turion x2 Ultra), HP laptop (turion), HP Desktop (C2D), and last desktop (Phenom II)) have all needed major work to keep still be running (and most are not). Maybe I just push my PCs harder? (Also, my SGI O2's all have died as well (MIPS, IRIX 6.5)...)

Windows in general has left a bad taste in my mouth. Granted, it's not all Microsoft's fault. But between Windows 98, ME, XP (RTM), and Vista, I found other OS's to be quite nice in comparison, and can see why people pay more.
 
2012-04-26 10:41:35 PM

Kazan: Dunning-Kruger


So what's the word for someone who can't spot obvious sarcasm?
 
2012-04-26 10:44:15 PM

Durendal: Yeah, what Rain-Monkey said. In addition...who the hell gets worked up and excited about the latest Microsoft products? Anyone? Apple has built up a culture. When they come out with something new, people take note and a whole lot of people want it. Not saying that isn't consumeristic poo, but that's the way it is. Apple has built an image over the past decade or so and it drives people to their stores.

What the hell is going to drive people to Microsoft Stores? And, funny enough, it looks an awful lot like an Apple Store with different products on the tables. Are they going to have a Really Smart Guy Table for people who need tech support?


What you guys said. I always laugh at how much the game has changed. Here, just 10 years ago people grumbled about the cost of the Windows OS and beat those machines into the ground over the next decade lol. Now folks don't bat a lash at doling out another 1500 bux every year for some new machine. It really has brainwashed people with hype or maybe it is just new toys for adults and kids lol. Either way it is baffling to me and I can only imagine how my parents must feel about it. MS's best bet is to just stick to its guns with WIndows and Xbox and ditch this winphone thing. Let big G burn up Apple with Samsung from that end. Really the Xbox is only a vid capture dongle and full browser away from being able to save it all. It seems silly, but it is the computer in every living room. Then again if Apple did it it would be a 42" iPad that cost 10,000 bux and again MS would lose : /
I'm still thinking cloud server processing could shiat on both, being able to play Halo on your original moto RAZR etc would negate the "newest and fastest"

or
"...after resuming control of Apple in 1997, Jobs eliminated all corporate philanthropy programs as a temporary cost-cutting measure until profitability improved.[62] Despite the company's record-breaking profits and $40 billion cash on hand,[63] Jobs has not reinstated a philanthropic division at Apple." - Wikipedia
copy apple lol.
 
2012-04-26 10:49:54 PM

armanox: 2 - Getting a computer without crapware (not MS's fault)


easily solved

armanox: 3 - Getting a UNIX system with a usable GUI. I want to be able to do things (SSH, SFTP, NFS, mount ISO images, boot to command line (sometimes)) without extra hassle


if you like rolls of unix that are essentially half a decade out of date


armanox: 4 - My Apple computers seem to have held up better then PCs. My G4 PowerMac, G3 iBook, and MBP 1,1 all still function (not all still useful, Flash sucks on PPC). My Windows systems in that frame (Gateway Desktop (P4), Toshiba latptops (Pentium M and Turion x2 Ultra), HP laptop (turion), HP Desktop (C2D), and last desktop (Phenom II)) have all needed major work to keep still be running (and most are not). Maybe I just push my PCs harder? (Also, my SGI O2's all have died as well (MIPS, IRIX 6.5)...)


my parents are using an old PC of mine... that is a decade old.


armanox: Windows in general has left a bad taste in my mouth. Granted, it's not all Microsoft's fault. But between Windows 98, ME, XP (RTM), and Vista, I found other OS's to be quite nice in comparison, and can see why people pay more.


current windows is unrelated to 98/ME

XP yeah...
Vista was mostly the fault of the OEMs being farkwits with drivers.. but some of that was MSes fault
have you tried 7?
 
2012-04-26 10:51:43 PM

MSFT: Kazan: Dunning-Kruger

So what's the word for someone who can't spot obvious sarcasm?


any user on the internet.. since studies show that 50% of textual communications are misconstrued due to lake of tone cues.
 
2012-04-26 10:54:13 PM

Kazan: MSFT: Kazan: Dunning-Kruger

So what's the word for someone who can't spot obvious sarcasm?

any user on the internet.. since studies show that 50% of textual communications are misconstrued due to lake of tone cues.


Perhaps you should pay more attention to the actual content, then.
 
2012-04-26 10:54:24 PM

farkeruk: I used Windows 8 recently and I farking hate it. It's all built around tablets and a touch interface, despite the fact that the tablet market is consumer based, and about lifestyle products. But because they think they can take on iPad, in a market they don't understand, they're going to piss off every business user in the process.


They're even doing it to Server for farks sake:

upload.wikimedia.org

FACE. PALM.
 
2012-04-26 11:01:33 PM
"...And it just might save the company." Didn't realize they were in bad shape. Yeah Apple is gaining share on desktops, and android and ios own the Mobile market, but the company is doing just fine. They dominate the gaming market, and the desktop market.

Zune failed because of poor marketing, the Zune HD blows away the iPod in every way>
As for Metro, I really dig the Windows Phone. It is stuck in a catch 22. There are not many apps, because developers won't develop for it because there are not enough users. There are not enough users because there are not enough apps. but once you play around with the UI it is so much more intuitive than iOS or Android, and it just looks crisp and modern. iOS and Android look like Windows 98 in comparison. That ugly grid looks really dated now.

The zune desktop software that you manage your Windows Phone with is so much better than iTunes, which IMHO is the worst music management software I have ever used. I was lucky to find Media Monkey right after I bought my iPhone and I used that to sync to my iPhone. Zune makes iTunes look like an excel spreadsheet.
 
2012-04-26 11:05:11 PM

Bacontastesgood: farkeruk: I used Windows 8 recently and I farking hate it. It's all built around tablets and a touch interface, despite the fact that the tablet market is consumer based, and about lifestyle products. But because they think they can take on iPad, in a market they don't understand, they're going to piss off every business user in the process.

They're even doing it to Server for farks sake:

[upload.wikimedia.org image 640x493]

FACE. PALM.


it's a good way to get users to use powershell :D


install server core instead of server with a GUI .. problem solved.
 
2012-04-26 11:08:44 PM

ScreamingHangover: LegacyDL: It's a sad day when Microsoft is falling behind.

If you're talking actual tech and not market share, then that day was back in the 80's

My dad used to have a t-shirt: "Windows 95 = Apple 89"


Even if it is wrong. Windows 95 at least had preemptive multitasking and protected memory. Apple didn't get that until OSX.
 
2012-04-26 11:16:33 PM

Kazan:
XP yeah...
Vista was mostly the fault of the OEMs being farkwits with drivers.. but some of that was MSes fault
have you tried 7?


Oh I agree with the drivers being a large issue - that is indeed the OEMs fault (I remember XP suffering from the same thing).
Yes, I'm posting this from my Windows 7 box at home (AMD FX-8120, 2 SSD, 16GB RAM - I do like to build computers). I intentionally left 7 off the list because I think it was a good release (haven't bought any OEM systems with 7, all have been custom builds or upgrades). I'm also not picking on Windows 8 because (1) it's not in release state yet, (2) I want to give it a fair chance, and (3) like Vista, I do see features that I like.

Also, on the outdated UNIX remark - aside from being a former Linux fanatic, it is one of the tools for my job. My clients are running Solaris and Linux.
 
2012-04-26 11:17:50 PM

Kazan: Vaneshi: Weight

1 lb difference.. couldn't give less a shiat
the $1300 is rated for up to twice the battery life.. it's minimum life is the rated life of the $2400 mbp

bullshiat.. same intel hardware

Incorrect assumption.

bullshiat.. same intel hardware
incorrect assumption.


at least you tagged these as subjective
And make or break.

Vaneshi: Warranty

bs

Incorrect assumption.

windows supports way more languages than os/x
Incorrect assumption.

Vaneshi: No 'value add' bollocks,
buy from the MS store.. they MS store removes any crapware put on by the vendor.. or buy Asus they don't put any crapware on last i checked

This is about a Dell. From a store that doesn't exist in my country. You answer is invalid.

Vaneshi: what software the Mac comes with is actually useful,

oh bollocks..

Incorrect.

Vaneshi: Power brick size, power brick total energy draw.

well yeah.. weaker overpriced shiat is going to draw less power so have a smaller brick... am i supposed to be impressed?

Incorrect assumption.


from lookin at the images i'll instantly give the envy the edge.. it actually has a full keyboard.
No demo available, you can not judge how well a keyboard works from a photo.

So, you've 3... 4 incorrect assumptions about the machines and are attempting to judge subjective per user issues (keyboard, display) without ever touching either. Would you like to try again or shall we just agree that the Mac is the better machine and you didn't understand the argument?
 
2012-04-26 11:19:37 PM

armanox: Also, on the outdated UNIX remark - aside from being a former Linux fanatic, it is one of the tools for my job. My clients are running Solaris and Linux.


i've played with linux on and off for ages.. used nothing but it my freshmen year of college.


Vaneshi

incorrect assumptions my ass.. i know what hardware is being distributed
 
2012-04-26 11:45:22 PM

Kazan:
Vaneshi

incorrect assumptions my ass.. i know what hardware is being distributed


No, you apparently don't.

Hint: Alu
 
2012-04-26 11:53:25 PM
As an aside, when people cite "build quality" in relationship to Macs, I have to laugh.

The reason I laugh isn't because I think it's silly, it's because I know it's silly. Watching Macbook Pros running down one line and right next to them, on another line, are Toughbooks and guts for both are coming out of the same bin made me realize what a bunch of cultish propaganda iTards spew to support their favored brand.

Someone upthread asked "What does the extra $1100 buy me". It buys you a ticket to the Kool-Aid line.

That's it. That's all it ever has bought you. You're not buying an "experience" or anything else that is someone magically better. You're buy an advertisement and nothing more.

/It's like people who swear, with a straight face, that M-16-A2s have "spinning" bullets (end over end) when no other weapon system that fires the exact same round does it.
 
2012-04-26 11:58:38 PM

Kazan: Beefiest macbook i could find on newegg - $2400 ( Link )
OS X v10.7 Lion
Intel Core i7 2.4Ghz
17" 1920x1080 monitor
4GB DDR3-1333
DVD+-RW
Radeon HD 6770M w/ 1GB GDDR5
Gigabit LAN and a/g/n WLAN
750GB 5400rpm SATA drive

guide-images.ifixit.net

Equivalent PC [actually better] HP ENVY 17-3070N - $1300 ( Link )

Windows 7 Home Premium (64)
Intel Core i7 2.20ghz [turbo mode to 3.1ghz]
17.3" 1920x1080 monitor
8GB DDR3 1600
BD-ROM / DVD+-RW
AMD Radeon HD 7690 w/ 1GB
Gigabit LAN and a/g/n WLAN
750GB 7200rpm SATA drive

hpshopping.speedera.net

tell me.. what am i paying that extra $1100 for?

 
2012-04-27 12:10:28 AM

Caelistis:
The reason I laugh isn't because I think it's silly, it's because I know it's silly. Watching Macbook Pros running down one line and right next to them, on another line, are Toughbooks and guts for both are coming out of the same bin made me realize what a bunch of cultish propaganda iTards spew to support their favored brand.


Interesting. No, I'm being serious. The last Toughbook tear-down I saw showed shock absorbing gel around the HDD enclosure, a sealed keyboard (really weird to type on) and the construction of the chassis seemed far more impact resistant (looked honeycombish) than the more flimsy stuff on the MBP's.

Frankly, the toughbook is worth every damn penny they charge for it. The thing will survive a fully loaded Transit van parking on top of it and stop a bullet. Although I admit I don't tend to throw my laptops under the wheels of transit vans or wander around where people like to shoot things; but if I did I'd most certainly buy one of em over a MBP any day. Although I suppose I could beat a chav to death with one.

However, both the Toughbook and MBP are premium machines in their respective ways, the £450 hypothetical dell not so much. And despite what you, allegedly, saw in an undisclosed location (Foxconn, China) even you must be aware that the assembly lines used are, too a degree, irrelevant. If you pay them [Foxconn] more per unit and spec a higher build quality... they deliver it.

Also... why would you even want a bullet to spin end over end? It'd be highly unstable in flight, loose velocity quickly and be very inaccurate. Much better to have it spun up by the rifling inside the barrel.
 
2012-04-27 12:10:42 AM

Kazan: install server core instead of server with a GUI .. problem solved.


Yeah, once a server is set up, who needs to touch it anyway?
 
2012-04-27 12:16:15 AM

Terrified Asexual Forcemeat:
[guide-images.ifixit.net image 592x443]


WTH is wrong with that keyboard?
 
2012-04-27 12:25:46 AM

finnished: Terrified Asexual Forcemeat:
[guide-images.ifixit.net image 592x443]

WTH is wrong with that keyboard?


ifixit suck balls at taking 'before' shots (regardless of who made the product in question)?

Sorry but they do. They could make a £1000p/h hooker dressed and dolled up look like crap.
 
2012-04-27 12:41:14 AM

Kazan: tell me.. what am i paying that extra $1100 for?


CSB
In 1998, a guitarist friend of mine and I were both putting together home studios. I bought a Mac ($1200). His uncle worked for Intel, so he bought a Windows machine ($500). The basic issue was, of course, "Why should I spend the extra $700 to do the same thing?" We both also had to buy recording software, so that doesn't enter into the equation.

My Mac lasted until summer of 2010. It was still running fine but I had to upgrade to OSX (not for recording, since the CD standard is the same as it was in 1982). During that period of time, he had purchased at least 7 new machines. Assuming he was always only spending $500 a pop, he spent at least $3500. Add in the cost of things like new sound cards every time he bought a new machine, and the basic cost of keeping a computer running was at least triple the cost of my "needlessly expensive" Mac.

/CSB

tl:dr -- Macs last a long, long time. In many cases, long enough to recoup the initial investment.
 
2012-04-27 12:49:45 AM

MacWizard:
tl:dr -- Macs last a long, long time. In many cases, long enough to recoup the initial investment.


i know people with PCs that old that work too. it has to do with how you treat it, and if you want/need newer software.
 
2012-04-27 03:48:44 AM

Kazan: MacWizard:
tl:dr -- Macs last a long, long time. In many cases, long enough to recoup the initial investment.

i know people with PCs that old that work too. it has to do with how you treat it, and if you want/need newer software.


If he had told the story with the brands reversed you would have wholeheartedly agreed. I think you are trapped in a positive feedback loop where everything that happens is proof to you that PCs are better than Macs.
 
2012-04-27 04:24:28 AM
media1.break.com

/oblig
 
2012-04-27 04:35:50 AM

kimmygibblershomework: What you guys said. I always laugh at how much the game has changed. Here, just 10 years ago people grumbled about the cost of the Windows OS and beat those machines into the ground over the next decade lol. Now folks don't bat a lash at doling out another 1500 bux every year for some new machine. It really has brainwashed people with hype or maybe it is just new toys for adults and kids lol.


You're missing what Apple fundamentally do. They sell high status products that happen to be well-made computers.

20-30 years ago, people marked their status by buying brand new cars or expensive jewellery. Today they buy Apple stuff. They don't just mark you out as being wealthy but also "tasteful" (actually boring, conservative tastes) and "creative", although by creative, they mean something like a video put together in iMovie of their tedious farking backpacking trip. OK, sure, there are people that use them because they get UNIX + a GUI, or are the Coen Brothers but that's like 1% of all Apple buyers.

That's why Apple owners have to a) show them off at every opportunity (that's why they bought it) and b) lamely try to defend their purchase on the practical grounds (because otherwise it's clearly just a bauble).
 
2012-04-27 04:40:36 AM
Another MSFT employee here.

Look, Microsoft has the war chest to play the long game and experiment as they go. Some things will fail. Others won't. This is what they did with the Xbox, it's what they're in the process of doing with Windows Phone. Visual Studio. Exchange Server. Lync. The list goes on and on.

I personally love WIndows 8. For a PC, yes, there's a couple hours where you're like, "WTF?" but if you give it a chance, it seriously grows on you. Regarding Server 8 having the Metro-based Start Screen - as the other Microsoft guy said, who needs a GUI to manage a server? That's what Powershell is for.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Windows 8 get a bit of a frosty reception, just as Vista did, but it's just another iteration. We're in it for the long haul. :)

/These opinions are my own, not Microsoft's. I work for them, but I don't represent them.
//IMHO, the best company in the world to work for!
 
2012-04-27 05:00:17 AM
I called this a long time ago. Microsoft is trying to go after the braindead farks Apple preys on at the expense of their core userbase. They're going to do it poorly and end up with neither contingent left.

Microsoft is going to Zune the entire company.
 
2012-04-27 06:21:35 AM
There's a MSFT store only a couple doors down from the Apple store in a local mall. It looks like a grungy, palette-swapped Apple store, only it seems like the products have all been there since it first opened. The Sony store across the way had a better selection of laptops.
 
2012-04-27 06:52:25 AM

Vaneshi: Also... why would you even want a bullet to spin end over end? It'd be highly unstable in flight, loose velocity quickly and be very inaccurate. Much better to have it spun up by the rifling inside the barrel.


Exactly. It's a myth, like the alleged "superiority" of Apple products. They don't do anything better than contemporaries with the same hardware.

You also eloquently proved my point about the Toughbook versus Macbook. They're worth every penny because of their durable construction. The Macbook, not so much. It can't survive a sternly worded letter from the UN much less any more shock and vibe than any other laptop.

Yes, I know where Foxconn is located. I've also been to Suzhou and seen the literally city block long manufacturing lines of Asustek as well.
 
2012-04-27 08:12:34 AM

Vaneshi: theurge14:
Well, there has been over 25 years of precedence in the Windows world with this. Why buy a $1500 Macbook when you can go down to Walmart and get a $450 Dell knockoff? What, they do the same thing right?

No they dont, at least in my experience. The $1500 MBP will, when you first turn it on, greet you, ask you to make a user, join a wireless network and pretty much drop you off at the desktop once you register it (and select no, to a TM restore).

The $450 Dell knock off will, when you first turn it on, greet you, shiat itself and then make odd noises from the fan until you slap it 'just so', once you've stopped it doing that it will walk you through a similar procedure to the Mac. It will drop you off at the desktop. Then it'll bombard you with 'value add' crap and grind to a halt whilst trying to load everything from the nastiest drive they could find. It may well fall apart at this point.

In some respect the much cheaper Dell does more than the $1500 MBP. I'm not totally convinced the Dell's additional 'features' are entirely useful but it's something your average MBP won't do. Neither am I convinced that someone shopping, specifically at Wal-Mart and specifically in the $400 range would be even remotely interested in an Apple machine.


Not all 450 dollar computers are equal, some are more equal than others. I agree that buying a 450 dollar laptop from WalMart is pants-on-head retarded, but a 450 dollar laptop from Newegg isn't too terrible. Also, and idiot knows that you always do a clean install and remove the bloatware ASAP. Even then, the PoS Dell will work better.

There are probably several people that might be interested in an Apple machine, but can't afford one at the moment, and need a computer ASAP and as cheap as possible. My previous laptop was one such machine. I bought the cheapest machine I could find, a farking 17" Compaq (the extra-shiatty low end of HP) laptop for 650 dollars in 2008, as my main machine was in the shop due to the lid hinges seizing up, which happens on many brands. The repair shop kept dicking me around so I had to buy a second machine. I knew it was a piece of shiat, seeing as it's a Compaq and all, but I needed something to run MS Office for papers as I was a student at the time. That PoS Compaq still runs 4 years later. My mother now has it, and she claims that it works a hell of a lot better than her new HP laptop she paid about 900 for. HP has really gone down the tubes.

I'm more than pleased with my 850 dollar Sony laptop I bought back in January. The closest MacBook equivalent was 1000 bucks more, and wouldn't be able to handle my computer needs, seeing as it has a Blu-ray drive in it, and Apple are being farking farkwits about the whole Blu-ray thing. I think it really depends on the needs of the individual, and for some of us, our "cheaper, inferior" Windows boxes work better than the "superior breed" of Apple machines. I can't justify paying more for what many people claim is superior, when as far as my user experience is concerned, it's less

Also, I didn't really need to shell another 1800 bucks on a computer a year after I built my desktop. I just needed a halfways decent laptop that would allow me to do work on the go, such as photo and video editing, some casual gaming, and have a bit more oomph than those craptastic 450 dollar machines. I haven't bought a new laptop in 4 years, and my Compaq was getting to the point where any of the work I wanted to do was seriously hindered by its limited specs. For my mom, it's fine as she's only web browsing and writting research papers.

Also, I honestly think my laptop looks prettier than the Macs. It's glow-in-the-dark fluorescent orange. It's not the main reason why I bought it though.
 
2012-04-27 08:56:49 AM

BohemianGraham: Also, I honestly think my laptop looks prettier than the Macs. It's glow-in-the-dark fluorescent orange. It's not the main reason why I bought it though.


media.tumblr.com
 
2012-04-27 09:08:58 AM

Terrified Asexual Forcemeat: BohemianGraham: Also, I honestly think my laptop looks prettier than the Macs. It's glow-in-the-dark fluorescent orange. It's not the main reason why I bought it though.

[media.tumblr.com image 500x281]


I was being snarky, seeing as most people who buy Mac products do so because they're "pretty." I should have perhaps been a little clearer in my snark somehow.

I bought my laptop because it was on sale, met the specs I required of it, and it just so happened that, that particular colour was on sale, and only that particular colour. Future Shop does stupid shiat like that all the time, where they only put certain colours of computers, mice, MP3 players, Cell Phones on sale. I figure it's because those colours aren't selling well, or they're just being typical Future Shop douches.
 
2012-04-27 10:10:23 AM

Terrified Asexual Forcemeat: If he had told the story with the brands reversed you would have wholeheartedly agreed. I think you are trapped in a positive feedback loop where everything that happens is proof to you that PCs are better than Macs.


or you could just be pulling shiat out of your ass to malign me.. i know people who have Apple IIcs that work too.
 
2012-04-27 10:14:21 AM

Kazan: Terrified Asexual Forcemeat: If he had told the story with the brands reversed you would have wholeheartedly agreed. I think you are trapped in a positive feedback loop where everything that happens is proof to you that PCs are better than Macs.

or you could just be pulling shiat out of your ass to malign me.. i know people who have Apple IIcs that work too.


You know, you are a Microsoft employee. You might just be a shining example of the Upton Sinclair effect.
 
2012-04-27 10:22:44 AM

LegacyDL: It's a sad day when Microsoft is falling behind.


When has Microsoft ever had an original thought? Everything they do is a 2nd rate rip-off of someone else's idea.
 
2012-04-27 10:26:19 AM

Terrified Asexual Forcemeat: Kazan: Terrified Asexual Forcemeat: If he had told the story with the brands reversed you would have wholeheartedly agreed. I think you are trapped in a positive feedback loop where everything that happens is proof to you that PCs are better than Macs.

or you could just be pulling shiat out of your ass to malign me.. i know people who have Apple IIcs that work too.

You know, you are a Microsoft employee. You might just be a shining example of the Upton Sinclair effect.


you only know two things about me
a) where I work [because if i talk about our products without saying that i can get in trouble]
b) that i dislike apple's business practices and advertising practices


b has been true 10x longer than a


you'll notice that i also haven't trashed their hardware [just the prices for their hardware - pointed out that contrary to fanboi claims it is the same commodity intel hardware]
 
2012-04-27 10:35:46 AM

Kazan: a) where I work [because if i talk about our products without saying that i can get in trouble]
b) that i dislike apple's business practices and advertising practices


Microsoft, convicted monopolist...
 
2012-04-27 10:43:22 AM

Terrified Asexual Forcemeat: Microsoft, convicted monopolist...


12 years ago when I was still in high school.. when my intern from my last job was barely in elementary school.. and our products are much more interoperable now [they could still be better] and we have policies of avoiding "not invented here" thinking [the source of 'embrace and extend' behavior]

Apple on the other hand is the one operating a closed ecosystem now and is under investigation for monopolistic practices.
 
2012-04-27 11:30:43 AM

farkeruk: kimmygibblershomework: What you guys said. I always laugh at how much the game has changed. Here, just 10 years ago people grumbled about the cost of the Windows OS and beat those machines into the ground over the next decade lol. Now folks don't bat a lash at doling out another 1500 bux every year for some new machine. It really has brainwashed people with hype or maybe it is just new toys for adults and kids lol.

You're missing what Apple fundamentally do. They sell high status products that happen to be well-made computers.

20-30 years ago, people marked their status by buying brand new cars or expensive jewellery. Today they buy Apple stuff. They don't just mark you out as being wealthy but also "tasteful" (actually boring, conservative tastes) and "creative", although by creative, they mean something like a video put together in iMovie of their tedious farking backpacking trip. OK, sure, there are people that use them because they get UNIX + a GUI, or are the Coen Brothers but that's like 1% of all Apple buyers.

That's why Apple owners have to a) show them off at every opportunity (that's why they bought it) and b) lamely try to defend their purchase on the practical grounds (because otherwise it's clearly just a bauble).


I agree with you, only wish you had read my comment a little closer ;) The funniest part of my experiences with mac owners is when they are like "look what my mac can do" with some cobbled up 3 line linux script that mimics some Win95 program (Don't even get me started on their audio suite lol).
It is sad to watch the divorced uncle with a cocaine problem pull ahead of Hank Hill with everyone giving the uncle money to buy them gifts on his business trip so he sends them a pic in an email and blows the money on more coke lol. I think MS learned its lesson as it grew and we have yet to see a full on teenage rant from apple yet as everyone is high on the filthy lucre. I'm sure this is how the UNIX nuts felt (even tho they all hated Ma Bell ironically) when MS started growing. Cheers!
 
2012-04-27 12:06:15 PM

Kazan:

you'll notice that i also haven't trashed their hardware [just the prices for their hardware - pointed out that contrary to fanboi claims it is the same commodity intel hardware]


Alumi
 
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