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(NPR)   Arizona migrant case could lead to sweeping changes. Also dishwashing changes, landscaping changes, and nanny changes   (npr.org) divider line 179
    More: Obvious, Arizona Attorney General, state crime, federal courts, illegal immigrants  
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6737 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Apr 2012 at 9:41 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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Archived thread
2012-04-26 09:38:38 AM
8 votes:
good. let red states kick out the "illegals" and watch their economies take a massive hit like they already are in alabama and georgia. the law of unintended consequences - it's more common than you'd think, especially when your laws are written by racist morons.
2012-04-26 10:48:34 AM
6 votes:
The Democrats don't want it enforced for humanitarian reasons - these are human farking beings just trying to do better for themselves and their families.

No, the Democrats don't want it enforced because they want to increase the number of Democratic voters. It's like importing a whole new victim class to appease....
2012-04-26 10:46:41 AM
6 votes:
In every single Zimmerman thread, we've been told that "hispanic" is not a race, and in fact the man is white. Yet in every Arizona thread, we are told that the only reason this law is in effect is because RACISM! Which is it?
2012-04-26 10:32:10 AM
6 votes:

FlashHarry: good. let red states kick out the "illegals" and watch their economies take a massive hit like they already are in alabama and georgia. the law of unintended consequences - it's more common than you'd think, especially when your laws are written by racist morons.


I suspect most of the country would like to see their state's economy take the 'massive hit' incurred by Alabama since 9/2011 (when their law took effect).

Alabama leads in job recovery (4/23/2012 story date)

Unemployment trends, United States as a whole and Alabama

In the second link, you might want to note that unemployment in Alabama began to plummet in June of 2011 and has fallen two points in the following nine months. Coincidentally (or maybe not), Alabama's immigration law was signed by the governor on 10 June 2011.

It can be argued that the unemployment change is unrelated to the law's passage and implementation, but to say that Alabama's economy has "taken a massive hit" since the law's passage isn't just inaccurate - it is a blatant lie.
2012-04-26 10:17:28 AM
5 votes:
"It would mean that anyone, as they are leaving their home - whether they are going to work, to church, where ever they are going - could be asked for their documents."

Liberals really are this farking dumb.
2012-04-26 10:15:42 AM
5 votes:
In before the race baiters..... oh, wait.. never mind.

This is a simple non-racial issue. The federal government is refusing to enforce a federal immigration law that is costing the people of the state money in taxes to educate and support (through law enforcement, social services, and medical care).

The state, who has the most to lose in monetary terms, has passed a law to allow them to enforce a federal law to reduce the burden of unlawful immigrants.

The law does not state, "Round up all brown people and catapult them back over the border."
2012-04-26 10:14:59 AM
5 votes:
I am a democrat and in no way consider myself racist. All entry level construction jobs in NJ and many advanced ones are going to illegal immigrants here. There are a plethora of what used to be middle class labor jobs which are given to illegals here for low wages and lining the pockets of owners more than ever.

The answer is and always had been to take away the incentive for businesses to hire them, moving the across the border just to have them come back solves nothing.
2012-04-26 10:09:37 AM
5 votes:

vudukungfu: I'm not going to complain. I used to advocate that all the farking racists should move to their own farking state. They pretty much did this with Colorado, Arizona, and Utah. Now they want to act like racist asshats in thier own sand boxes. Meh. We'll take the Mexican up here in Vermont. Lord knows, we can't get our own farking kids to pull the tit and shovel the shait.


This is an outstanding troll - it combines feigned brain-dead ignorance with a clever caricature of liberal hypocrisy. Well done!
2012-04-26 10:04:13 AM
5 votes:
Interesting how I have read in the past that many posters here think the U.S. should adopt more social/nationwide programs similar to those in Europe and other countries.

Funny thing, I bet if you were driving around Europe/Canada/Mexico/Japan/S. Korea/etc. and was pulled over by the police you would be required to show your passport/identification to prove you are in the country legally. Yet, if that same type of policy is suggested here....fingers point, flags raise, and cries of racism become the battle cry.

Would it be racist of the police in Japan to pull a white, American over for speeding/running a red light/ or stopped for committing a crime? Try claiming racism in that case and wait for the chorus of laughs at your ignorance.
2012-04-26 10:00:29 AM
5 votes:

spentmiles: The real problem is that Americans are, as a people, sedentary. Don't get me wrong, I'm American, and I love America. But as a culture, we've never been explorers. We've always been settlers. And once settled, we will hold on to our little plot of land no matter how ridiculously bad conditions get.


www.americaslibrary.gov
2012-04-26 09:55:05 AM
5 votes:
FTA: Latinos who are here legally to be asked about their immigration status.

For the past 20 years, I've been asked about my immigration status (Form I-9) on a job application or when hired, and *shock* I didn't run to the ACLU.. If you're in the US legally and actually want a job...

/I wash my own dishes
//Am a proud parent who never hired a babysitter (relatives only)
2012-04-26 09:54:34 AM
5 votes:
Wait, you mean to tell me that a state law that mirrors a federal law might not be declared unconstitutional?

:I
2012-04-26 09:54:11 AM
5 votes:

FlashHarry: let red states kick out the "illegals" and watch their economies take a massive hit like they already are in alabama and georgia.


Georgia's unemployment rate continues to fall.
2012-04-26 10:56:37 AM
4 votes:

thornhill: RibbyK: thornhill: RibbyK: FlashHarry: good. let red states kick out the "illegals" and watch their economies take a massive hit like they already are in alabama and georgia. the law of unintended consequences - it's more common than you'd think, especially when your laws are written by racist morons.

Citation needed

UA economist finds immigration law could cost Alabama millions in lost taxes, billions in lost GDP

FTFA:
The analysis by Dr. Samuel Addy found that 40,000 to 80,000 workers earning between $15,000 to $35,000 annually have left the state. Those departures, the study found, mean the loss of 70,000 to 140,000 direct and indirect jobs.
The chief problem, the study finds, is that demand in the economy is reduced.
"As a result of this exodus, aggregate demand has been reduced, a negative shock that puts the state's economy on a lower growth path than would have been the case without the law," the report argues.

Ahhh, so stop enforcment and Alabama's economy will turn-around?
Or FTA: The study also finds that some of the impact is difficult to measure.
/The authors lump "direct" with "indirect" jobs. If 80,000 "direct" workers leave the state, their jobs are indeed lost, along with support services.

The author acknowledges that coming up with an exact number is difficult, but his underlying point is that by pushing wage earners out of the state, you're going to reduce tax revenue and overall spending. You're really going to argue with that?

And on the issue of tax revenue, while these folks probably aren't paying property or income tax, these taxes are extremely low in Alabama -- cities and counties in Alabama heavily rely on sales tax. I used to live in Montgomery, AL, and the sales tax there was 10%, which was on everything, including food. So the lost sales tax revenue is going to be significant for Alabama cities and towns.


I am typing this from Montgomery right now. Alabama's sales tax collections in general and Montgomery's in particular have been steadily increasing as unemployment has dropped (shocker, right?). The gloom and doom predicted by a few economists have not come to pass.
2012-04-26 10:52:08 AM
4 votes:
Hey white folks, try visiting or getting a job in Mexico without permission.
...and make sure you cry "racist" when they kick you ivory ass back to the US.
2012-04-26 10:51:16 AM
4 votes:

JustGetItRight: Funny thing too, the guy was from Germany, so I highly doubt he was brown.


No he was an upper class white guy in a nice rental car, exactly the type of guy they claimed would NEVER be subjected to the law because it was all about brown people. Yet another thing these laws opponents were wrong about.
2012-04-26 10:29:25 AM
4 votes:

rudemix: Best of luck finding enough of a workforce in your population full of geriatrics and trash to work in AZ heat through the summer.


I guess they will just have to pay people more to do those jobs, maybe out of the CEO's salary perhaps
2012-04-26 10:27:43 AM
4 votes:

Thunderpipes: "It would mean that anyone, as they are leaving their home - whether they are going to work, to church, where ever they are going - could be asked for their documents."

Liberals really are this farking dumb.


No, THE LAW IS THIS FARKING DUMB. That is EXACTLY what the law says. In fact, under Georgia's "transportation" part of the law, YOU CAN GO TO JAIL for giving your neighbor a ride to work or church or the grocery store.

And don't EVEN try to say, "well, that's not how they're going to enforce it". Bullshiat. If that was true, then why write the law that way?
2012-04-26 10:25:05 AM
4 votes:

ox45tallboy: FlashHarry: good. let red states kick out the "illegals" and watch their economies take a massive hit like they already are in alabama and georgia. the law of unintended consequences - it's more common than you'd think, especially when your laws are written by racist morons.

The law was written by the prison industry, who are not necessarily "racist morons". Do you think that private prisons give two shiats what color the inmates are? They get paid the same either way.

The laws are racist, and are supported by a bunch of racist asshats (which is why you see these laws in places with a history of racial conflict, such as Georgia and Alabama). But that doesn't mean that the people who wrote the law in order to play off of racial prejudices are necessarily racist themselves, and they certainly aren't morons.

These laws give racist people an outlet; they can't exactly feel superior to blacks when the President is a eloquent, well-spoken Constitutional law professor, but dammit, they're better than a bunch of damn beaners.


So...it's racist to enforce immigration law?

What do you have to smoke to have this kind of idiocy?
2012-04-26 10:22:44 AM
4 votes:

King Something: RibbyK: FTA: Latinos who are here legally to be asked about their immigration status.

For the past 20 years, I've been asked about my immigration status (Form I-9) on a job application or when hired, and *shock* I didn't run to the ACLU.. If you're in the US legally and actually want a job...

/I wash my own dishes
//Am a proud parent who never hired a babysitter (relatives only)

Have you ever been asked about your immigration status at a traffic stop?

Because Arizona's law allows cops to do that. And if you can't prove you're in this country legally right then and there, they'll cuff you and put you in the precinct holding cell until they finish doing enough of a background check on you to determine whether or not you're an illegal immigrant.


Every single time, yes. My driver's license shows my immigration status. If I refuse to produce it, guess what happens to me, a US citizen? And after a legal stop in which the police has reasonable suspicion to suspect me of committing or about to commit a crime, I refuse to produce ID, guess what happens to me?

Oh, I am an American, so that is okay. Only illegals should be immune to our laws.


lay off the weed, Moonbeam. All this law does is give officers a chance to enforce current laws, and does not discriminate based on race in any way.
2012-04-26 10:19:33 AM
4 votes:
Media trolling now. Migrant? They know damn well this is about ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS!!!

Yet they are silent on thoses sanctuary states and cities that openly disregard the laws on illegal immigration.

/pure politics
//same thing with voter id laws
2012-04-26 09:55:01 AM
4 votes:
If you're going to ignore enforcement of immigration laws why bother having them on the books?
2012-04-26 11:01:54 AM
3 votes:

JustGetItRight: The gloom and doom predicted by a few economists have not come to pass.


Which is the real reason why the laws are challenged. Everyone knows they will work. Then they'll be out of excuses on why we MUST provide a path to citizenship.
2012-04-26 10:44:56 AM
3 votes:

thornhill: RibbyK: thornhill: RibbyK: FlashHarry: good. let red states kick out the "illegals" and watch their economies take a massive hit like they already are in alabama and georgia. the law of unintended consequences - it's more common than you'd think, especially when your laws are written by racist morons.

Citation needed

UA economist finds immigration law could cost Alabama millions in lost taxes, billions in lost GDP

FTFA:
The analysis by Dr. Samuel Addy found that 40,000 to 80,000 workers earning between $15,000 to $35,000 annually have left the state. Those departures, the study found, mean the loss of 70,000 to 140,000 direct and indirect jobs.
The chief problem, the study finds, is that demand in the economy is reduced.
"As a result of this exodus, aggregate demand has been reduced, a negative shock that puts the state's economy on a lower growth path than would have been the case without the law," the report argues.

Ahhh, so stop enforcment and Alabama's economy will turn-around?
Or FTA: The study also finds that some of the impact is difficult to measure.
/The authors lump "direct" with "indirect" jobs. If 80,000 "direct" workers leave the state, their jobs are indeed lost, along with support services.

The author acknowledges that coming up with an exact number is difficult, but his underlying point is that by pushing wage earners out of the state, you're going to reduce tax revenue and overall spending. You're really going to argue with that?

And on the issue of tax revenue, while these folks probably aren't paying property or income tax, these taxes are extremely low in Alabama -- cities and counties in Alabama heavily rely on sales tax. I used to live in Montgomery, AL, and the sales tax there was 10%, which was on everything, including food. So the lost sales tax revenue is going to be significant for Alabama cities and towns.


And yet they will save much more when they no longer have to pay for health care, schooling, free school lunch programs, WIC, ADC, ect... for illegals.
2012-04-26 10:39:22 AM
3 votes:

Geotpf: This is another example of "Federal policy sucks so states do stupid shiat trying to counter". And, no, not deporting all the illegal immigrant Mexicans isn't the stupid Federal policy here. The stupid Federal policy here is the fact that an ordinary Mexican has basically no chance of immigrating to the United States legally unless they already have family here.

Link (pdf file)



No, the stupid federal poiicy is that an ordinary Mexican can immigrate just because he has family living here. 300 million+ people is too many. The country's full. Those who are here (legally) can stay. Those who are here illegally should be loaded into a catapult and "deported" in the general direction of wherever they came from, and no one else should be able to come here as anything other than a tourist. That would be a smart federal policy.
2012-04-26 10:38:52 AM
3 votes:

ox45tallboy: Carousel Beast: So...it's racist to enforce immigration law?

What do you have to smoke to have this kind of idiocy?

Speaking of smoking, look at the history of marijuana criminalization. It was done specifically to target blacks.

And this bill does not "enforce immigration law".

Do you carry proof of your citizenship around with you everywhere you go? If you're a citizen, then you probably don't. And you're not required to. But under this law, if your skin is brown, you HAVE to carry PROOF you're a citizen, or get taken to the pokey until you can convince someone to find your proof and bring it to them.


According to the bill's author a driver's license will count as proof of citizenship. So yes I do carry it around everywhere I go. Also when I travel overseas I'm requires to have my passport on me at all times.
2012-04-26 10:38:45 AM
3 votes:

King Something: RibbyK: FTA: Latinos who are here legally to be asked about their immigration status.

For the past 20 years, I've been asked about my immigration status (Form I-9) on a job application or when hired, and *shock* I didn't run to the ACLU.. If you're in the US legally and actually want a job...

/I wash my own dishes
//Am a proud parent who never hired a babysitter (relatives only)

Have you ever been asked about your immigration status at a traffic stop?

Because Arizona's law allows cops to do that. And if you can't prove you're in this country legally right then and there, they'll cuff you and put you in the precinct holding cell until they finish doing enough of a background check on you to determine whether or not you're an illegal immigrant.


In my wallet I have a drivers license, social security card, pilots license and registered voters card. I did not intentionally gather any of this documentation in preparation for being stopped and questioned. It is just what's on my body whenever I leave the house.

//No my wallet does not look like a man-purse
///it does not.
2012-04-26 10:29:33 AM
3 votes:

FlashHarry: good. let red states kick out the "illegals" and watch their economies take a massive hit like they already are in alabama and georgia. the law of unintended consequences - it's more common than you'd think, especially when your laws are written by racist morons.


Sweet, they can be the "blue states" problem then when the mass exodus away from red states who are actually trying to do something about it except ignoring it.

For the record, I don't like the "papers please" mentality, and I would rather target businesses that use illegal immigrant labor (cut the root, so to say). But at least AZ is trying to do "something" (albeit a little too heavy handed for my tastes) because nobody else is, and it is actually starting something to really focus on the illegal immigration problem in this country.
2012-04-26 10:21:04 AM
3 votes:

FlashHarry: good. let red states kick out the "illegals" and watch their economies take a massive hit like they already are in alabama and georgia. the law of unintended consequences - it's more common than you'd think, especially when your laws are written by racist morons.


So what do you suggest? What should we do to get rid of the illegal immigrant problem?


"Over the last several years, states frustrated with America's porous borders, have rejected the long held notion that Washington is responsible for confronting illegal immigration and have passed a flurry of laws to let local police confront illegal immigration"

Can't say that I blame them being as the feds are apparently either unwilling or unable to put a stop to the problem
2012-04-26 10:19:43 AM
3 votes:
I live on the S.Texas border.

When I leave the RGV to go to Corpus Christi I must pass through a Border Patrol checkpoint on U.S. 77. They stop every vehicle and ask if you are a U.S. citizen and run the dog around the vehicle. Every road out of S. Texas has Border Patrol checkpoints.

Where is the outrage?? I mean I live in the U.S. the checkpionts are somewhere near 60 miles north from the border.
2012-04-26 10:11:59 AM
3 votes:

DrewCurtisJr: FlashHarry: good. let red states kick out the "illegals" and watch their economies take a massive hit like they already are in alabama and georgia.

What massive hit?


Exactly what I was thinking, Red states have lower unemployment right now...
2012-04-26 10:01:45 AM
3 votes:

Satanic_Hamster: Turns out rapists and Arizona cops aren't the best at telling someones legal status just by looking at them.


That's the real problem here. NO ONE CARES whether or not the brown people are here legally, they just care that brown people are here. Being able to haul in and harass any brown person that doesn't have "proof of citizenship" on his person (driver's license =! proof of citizenship) isn't meant to deter illegal immigration, it's meant to make money for private jails and prisons (the reason it was written) and to deter ANY brown person from hanging around the state (the reason it was passed and is supported).
2012-04-26 09:57:12 AM
3 votes:

FlashHarry: good. let red states kick out the "illegals" and watch their economies take a massive hit like they already are in alabama and georgia. the law of unintended consequences - it's more common than you'd think, especially when your laws are written by racist morons.


Honestly, I'm more concerned about scaring illegals from even talking to law enforcement, which is already a problem as it is.

A few miles south of where I lived there was a criminal who liked to rob and rape illegal immigrants. Law enforcement didn't do much or know much about it because most of the victims never reported the crime due to fears of deportation. Finally made the papers and got on the cops radar after the guy assaulted a few citizens.

Turns out rapists and Arizona cops aren't the best at telling someones legal status just by looking at them.
2012-04-26 09:55:27 AM
3 votes:
The real problem is that Americans are, as a people, sedentary. Don't get me wrong, I'm American, and I love America. But as a culture, we've never been explorers. We've always been settlers. And once settled, we will hold on to our little plot of land no matter how ridiculously bad conditions get.

Oh, the five year flood destroyed my house, crops, and drown my kids? I will rebuild! Oh, the local economy collapsed, my house is worth nothing, and I have no job prospects whatsoever? I will remain in Detroit! Oh, I'm ninety years old, can't see, can't drive, can barely feed myself? I refuse assisted living! I will die in my home!

We've just got a settler's mindset which leaves us scratching our heads at the average Mexican who can uproot, travel a thousand miles in the back of semi trailer, and be up on a roof as soon as the truck stops. The Mexican has become a migratory animal, which simply does not compute. Us trying to solve the immigration problem is like a blind guy trying to tie his Velcro shoes. We don't even comprehend the problem, so any solution we come up with is a shot in the dark at best.

Personally, I've learned to migrate. I've adapted. When the roofers all left Mexico to profit in the US, I took my roofing company to Mexico. There was no competition. We made out like bandits. And now the Mexicans are coming back to Mexico, so I've made plans to return North. It's not complex, it's just difficult.
2012-04-26 12:44:52 PM
2 votes:

The One True TheDavid: sethstorm: The One True TheDavid: Yikes. You mean I'll have to carry my birth certificate around? You know, because over the years I've personally met dozens of "illegal immigrants" who were from England, the Netherlands, Sweden, Germany -- several northern European Caucasians from several predominantly northern European Caucasian countries in northern Europe.

Well, the ones in my family tree (French, German and Hungarian) did it legally - with all the paperwork necessary at the time.

The ones in my family did it before the Colonies were "free." Then they moved west onto Indian land and participated in shoving them west, killing women and children to prove they meant business. Then the next generation moved further and shoved the natives over the mountains. Then the next generation moved over the mountains....

Note that one of the major causes of the War of Independence was that the British government tried to stop illegal immigration by white English-speakers onto Indian land. Look it up.

By the way, your ancestry is French, German and Hungarian? N00b. I'll bet my ancestors were here 200 years before yours, so I'm automagically more American. Nyaah nyaah. Ellis Island was a mistake: they should have insisted your people be rich or indentured, like they did mine.


What happened to the American Indians is a good example of how the native government shouldn't craft immigration policy
2012-04-26 12:09:33 PM
2 votes:

FlashHarry: good. let red states kick out the "illegals" and watch their economies take a massive hit like they already are in alabama and georgia.


What a "massive hit" looks like.

Alabama's immigration reform again cuts unemployment

http://dailycaller.com/2012/01/20/alabamas-immigration-reform-again-c u ts-unemployment/
2012-04-26 12:00:48 PM
2 votes:
Written by me in another thread, edited for topic at hand

You are all acting like idiots. For example, many who are anti-illegal immigration are branded as racists, those who are against Israeli actions are labeled as anti-semites, many who do not support Obama are accused of racism, and many in the OWS who are against big bankers are seen as anti-semitic.

Why? Because the tactic works is one reason. There are those who will throw that shiat out there to attempt to stifle the conversation so that they would not need to resort to critical thinking. And two, there are real people out there that are against racism, and many of them are so obsessed with it fit it into their own paranoid mind. Racism is becoming a moral panic.

Yes, there are racist people out there, but they are not as prevalent as you think they are.

For me, I could care less about illegal immigration to this country. My only concern is the exploitation of these people, both labor wise and sexual. If you do nothing about illegal immigration and just hope for the best then the exploitation will continue on.
2012-04-26 12:00:19 PM
2 votes:
I don't like the law but I am happy it still has a lot of you idiots who falsely cry racism pissed off. Good, stay pissed off, and tell your congresscritter that you want immigration reform. Scream it in his or her farking ear.
2012-04-26 11:52:17 AM
2 votes:
atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com

These guys just want a better life here in the US. As you can see they are happy to be here, and are probably pretty excited about setting an example for the anchor babies they'd like to send to your schools.

I don't know about you, but I'm pretty excited about hiring some of these guys to build my deck
2012-04-26 11:47:49 AM
2 votes:

ox45tallboy: Joe Blowme: So it IS because you hate cops and think they are all racist.

See above, dude. I hate stupid and bigoted laws that enable the bad cops out there to do bad things. Yes, I hate bad cops, but cops are necessary. You don't improve things by making it easier on bad cops to be bad.


If i am a cop investigating a crime and have probable cause you may be violating a law unrelated to my investigation i can not ignore it just because its not what i am looking into. That would be piss poor police work Lou. Law is only bigoted against law breakers, which is ok... like being bigoted against nazis is ok.
2012-04-26 11:46:30 AM
2 votes:
Wow, comparing a handful of American explorers to all Americans is like saying all brown people are illegal aliens.
2012-04-26 11:29:45 AM
2 votes:
God forbid employers start being forced to pay Americans a reasonable wage to do the work of Americans.
2012-04-26 11:26:30 AM
2 votes:

ox45tallboy: Satanic_Hamster: Turns out rapists and Arizona cops aren't the best at telling someones legal status just by looking at them.

That's the real problem here. NO ONE CARES whether or not the brown people are here legally, they just care that brown people are here.


I'm pretty sure the people in the construction industry who were competing with the brown people for jobs cared. But who gives a shiat about them, right?
2012-04-26 11:23:20 AM
2 votes:
i240.photobucket.com

They're just here for a better life.
2012-04-26 11:20:30 AM
2 votes:

ox45tallboy: Joe Blowme: Satanic_Hamster: RibbyK: FTA: Latinos who are here legally to be asked about their immigration status.

For the past 20 years, I've been asked about my immigration status (Form I-9) on a job application or when hired, and *shock* I didn't run to the ACLU.. If you're in the US legally and actually want a job...

/I wash my own dishes
//Am a proud parent who never hired a babysitter (relatives only)

And guess what? NO ONE CARES or is against businesses doing this when hiring.

What we object to is that American citizens just walking down the street can be subject to arrest solely based on an officer's suspicion that they're not in the country legally.

WRONG. Citation needed. Just "walking down the street" is no where in the bill but thanks for your 2 cents worth of made up shiat.

RIGHT. "Just walking down the street" is SOP for police targeting a demographic (such as drug dealing on the corner). In this case, it is not even a stretch for a cop to question individuals on the street regarding a recent crime, therefore they would be demanding their papers "in the course of an investigation", rather than "just because".


So it IS because you hate cops and think they are all racist.
2012-04-26 11:14:56 AM
2 votes:

ox45tallboy: Joe Blowme: Why do you keep picking on brown people? This law states no color preference yet you keep interjecting it like some racist bastard. You are being willfully misleading and ignorant, lay off the crack and get out of your moms basement once in a while.

I'm not picking on brown people, the law is. I'm saying it's silly to force UNITED STATES CITIZENS to carry "proof of citizenship" on their person at all times or get rounded up and taken to the pokey.


If you commit a crime, the police have to know who you are so they can charge you. You have to be stopped for something else not just "walking down the street" as you are claiming. Why is that so hard to grasp? Cops want to know who you are so they can run you through the system and find out if you have any warrants and such. Its not a racist thing, its a law enforcement thing.

/i think you are just bigoted against cops and are saying they are all too racist to enforce this law as written.
2012-04-26 11:06:23 AM
2 votes:

The One True TheDavid: Ain't the Constitution of the USofA a wonderful document? Truly all must bow before it and before its current interpretation by whatever political hacks happen to be wearing black robes up there.


Yeah, it is. It's wonderful because it can be updated, and it has been. So why did you bother with bringing up what it used to be as opposed to what it is? Is it immoral to have regulations on immigration?
2012-04-26 11:01:06 AM
2 votes:

taliesinwi: No one's got a problem with people coming into the country legally and becoming a productive member of society. It's what the country was _founded_ on. But there are laws for a reason.


Do you have ANY idea how hard it is to legally immigrate from Mexico? However, if you're Cuban, you just set foot on American soil, and voila, you can stay. These laws are unfairly biased, and I repeat my assertion that in the position of the average Mexican, you would do what it took to survive - i.e., jump the border to the US.

Isn't it ironic how the people that are the most "USA #1!!!" are also the ones that have trouble figuring out why illegal immigrants come here in the first place?
2012-04-26 10:56:07 AM
2 votes:

Satanic_Hamster: RibbyK: FTA: Latinos who are here legally to be asked about their immigration status.

For the past 20 years, I've been asked about my immigration status (Form I-9) on a job application or when hired, and *shock* I didn't run to the ACLU.. If you're in the US legally and actually want a job...

/I wash my own dishes
//Am a proud parent who never hired a babysitter (relatives only)

And guess what? NO ONE CARES or is against businesses doing this when hiring.

What we object to is that American citizens just walking down the street can be subject to arrest solely based on an officer's suspicion that they're not in the country legally.


WRONG. Citation needed. Just "walking down the street" is no where in the bill but thanks for your 2 cents worth of made up shiat.
2012-04-26 10:55:51 AM
2 votes:

Carth: According to the bill's author a driver's license will count as proof of citizenship. So yes I do carry it around everywhere I go. Also when I travel overseas I'm requires to have my passport on me at all times.


This bill was written by a lawyer at ALEC on behalf of Corrections Corporation of America. Yeah, I'm gonna believe what someone else claims he meant rather than what it freakin' says.
2012-04-26 10:40:45 AM
2 votes:

ox45tallboy: Carousel Beast: So...it's racist to enforce immigration law?

What do you have to smoke to have this kind of idiocy?

Speaking of smoking, look at the history of marijuana criminalization. It was done specifically to target blacks.

And this bill does not "enforce immigration law".

Do you carry proof of your citizenship around with you everywhere you go? If you're a citizen, then you probably don't. And you're not required to. But under this law, if your skin is brown, you HAVE to carry PROOF you're a citizen, or get taken to the pokey until you can convince someone to find your proof and bring it to them.


Why do you keep picking on brown people? This law states no color preference yet you keep interjecting it like some racist bastard. You are being willfully misleading and ignorant, lay off the crack and get out of your moms basement once in a while.
2012-04-26 10:35:28 AM
2 votes:

Carousel Beast: So...it's racist to enforce immigration law?

What do you have to smoke to have this kind of idiocy?


Speaking of smoking, look at the history of marijuana criminalization. It was done specifically to target blacks.

And this bill does not "enforce immigration law".

Do you carry proof of your citizenship around with you everywhere you go? If you're a citizen, then you probably don't. And you're not required to. But under this law, if your skin is brown, you HAVE to carry PROOF you're a citizen, or get taken to the pokey until you can convince someone to find your proof and bring it to them.
2012-04-26 10:34:08 AM
2 votes:
Possible consequences in GA: Link
Another article: Link
2012-04-26 10:29:17 AM
2 votes:

ox45tallboy: Thunderpipes: "It would mean that anyone, as they are leaving their home - whether they are going to work, to church, where ever they are going - could be asked for their documents."

Liberals really are this farking dumb.

No, THE LAW IS THIS FARKING DUMB. That is EXACTLY what the law says. In fact, under Georgia's "transportation" part of the law, YOU CAN GO TO JAIL for giving your neighbor a ride to work or church or the grocery store.

And don't EVEN try to say, "well, that's not how they're going to enforce it". Bullshiat. If that was true, then why write the law that way?


Why did the federal government write the laws the way they did if they don't intend to enforce it?
2012-04-26 10:26:28 AM
2 votes:

ox45tallboy: Arizona (and Georgia and Alabama) cops are NOT trained to do this.


You are wrong, I am not surprised.
2012-04-26 10:23:30 AM
2 votes:

Bees are livestock: I live on the S.Texas border.

When I leave the RGV to go to Corpus Christi I must pass through a Border Patrol checkpoint on U.S. 77. They stop every vehicle and ask if you are a U.S. citizen and run the dog around the vehicle. Every road out of S. Texas has Border Patrol checkpoints.

Where is the outrage?? I mean I live in the U.S. the checkpionts are somewhere near 60 miles north from the border.


The government claims that within 100 miles of any land or sea border 4th amendment privileges don't apply and you can be subject to search by any border control officer. Search "constitution free zone" for more information.
2012-04-26 10:13:40 AM
2 votes:

vudukungfu: I'm not going to complain. I used to advocate that all the farking racists should move to their own farking state.
They pretty much did this with Colorado, Arizona, and Utah.
Now they want to act like racist asshats in thier own sand boxes.
Meh.
We'll take the Mexican up here in Vermont.
Lord knows, we can't get our own farking kids to pull the tit and shovel the shait.


You sound lazy and fat.
2012-04-26 10:03:31 AM
2 votes:

spentmiles: The real problem is that Americans are, as a people, sedentary. Don't get me wrong, I'm American, and I love America. But as a culture, we've never been explorers.
.


notsureifserious.jpeg

Lewis and Clark, Apollo astronauts, Don Walsh, Jedediah Smith etc. American history is full of famous explores. What you're describing isn't exploring it is migrating.
2012-04-26 10:02:33 AM
2 votes:

Ron Mexico's Revenge: FlashHarry: let red states kick out the "illegals" and watch their economies take a massive hit like they already are in alabama and georgia.

Georgia's unemployment rate continues to fall.


.
.
Shhh! Facts are frowned upon here at Fark.
2012-04-26 10:01:40 AM
2 votes:

ox45tallboy: FlashHarry: good. let red states kick out the "illegals" and watch their economies take a massive hit like they already are in alabama and georgia. the law of unintended consequences - it's more common than you'd think, especially when your laws are written by racist morons.

The law was written by the prison industry, who are not necessarily "racist morons". Do you think that private prisons give two shiats what color the inmates are? They get paid the same either way.

The laws are racist, and are supported by a bunch of racist asshats (which is why you see these laws in places with a history of racial conflict, such as Georgia and Alabama). But that doesn't mean that the people who wrote the law in order to play off of racial prejudices are necessarily racist themselves, and they certainly aren't morons.

These laws give racist people an outlet; they can't exactly feel superior to blacks when the President is a eloquent, well-spoken Constitutional law professor, but dammit, they're better than a bunch of damn beaners.


Can you say racist one more time?

/weak minded people have such limited vocabularies
2012-04-26 09:57:29 AM
2 votes:

DrewCurtisJr: FlashHarry: good. let red states kick out the "illegals" and watch their economies take a massive hit like they already are in alabama and georgia.

What massive hit?


Dude, in Georgia, we were shipping in SEX OFFENDERS to pick the crops, but they couldn't hold up to it. Small farmers took a beating this past season, while the large-scale pure commercial operations did just fine.

Unemployment is getting better because the economy in general is improving. It takes a reeeeeeeal stretch of the imagination for some people to think this has anything to do with this law.
2012-04-26 09:50:41 AM
2 votes:

FlashHarry: good. let red states kick out the "illegals" and watch their economies take a massive hit like they already are in alabama and georgia.


What massive hit?
2012-04-26 09:45:46 AM
2 votes:
I don't care who you are, this headline is great. HOTW for sure.
2012-04-27 08:34:08 PM
1 votes:

Achyvi: I work indirectly in the agricultural business, and we are farked by these laws so badly, especially combined with the bad weather we've had the past few years. When crops actually grow, there aren't enough workers to go around, and last year a whole bunch of different harvests all coincided with the same result--too much work, not enough pickers. The majority of the apples in some areas just rotted on the trees. There was an article in the paper yesterday about how asparagus is taking a real hit this year due to lack of pickers, to the point where some farmers are just flat-out abandoning their fields. Sad for everyone involved, farmer and farmworker alike.




you know what? I feel almost as bad for you as the not so well off folks that turn to burglary and such to to try and make ends meet.

I say almost as bad because unlike you and your industry, many of the people that turn to crime don't have legal remedies at hand to get them out of the situations they are in, while you and yours could have just played by the very simple rules and obtained foreign nationals for agricultural work instead of actually offering a living wage to americans.

you had absolutely zero reason for not using the H-2A Visa program to obtain the very same workers, except that you would have actually had to pay for their workers comp instead of kicking them off your land when they were injured. the only reason you are in the position you are today is pure unadulterated greed that absolutely f*cks over your fellow countrymen AND the workers you could have imported legally.

I have more respect for the drug pusher that never really had a shot at life than you.
so I hope it hurts. I really do.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-2A_Visa
2012-04-27 08:15:35 PM
1 votes:

ox45tallboy: Does Scotty beam them across the border?


well we don't have that technology yet, perhaps we could use catapults until then?

ox45tallboy: How often do the ICE buses show up?


oh, so you're saying we should increase funding the ICE deportation teams? sounds like a brilliant idea, perhaps we can redirect all the money we could save from not giving them free medical care, foodstamps, etc..

heck with the money we could save from prisons not being burdened with illegals we could probably have teleporters soon enough

i like the way you think, someone should put you into office, provided you can produce the necessary paperwork to prove that you are a UNITED STATES CITIZEN

right again!

ox45tallboy: In fact, how often do the police agencies hold the suspected illegals before reporting them to ICE?


apparently too long, i agree with you, there should be much more deporting and much less detaining, feeding, medical care, education, etc..

ox45tallboy for office in 2012!!

vote now, vote often
2012-04-26 10:09:52 PM
1 votes:
i could care less about illegals. The real question is should States be allowed to pass laws concerning rights that are assigned to the Federal Government?

Here's a hint, when do you become a naturalized citizen of Texas or New York or do you hold citizenship of the United States? Do you receive your passport at the State level? Would a foreign visitor apply for a Visa at the State level?
2012-04-26 09:48:13 PM
1 votes:

redhook: [www.hyscience.com image 455x337]
[ncrenegade.com image 425x308]
[www.rickwomick34th.com image 471x283]
[www.city-data.com image 640x445]
[www.politifake.org image 640x510]


Fear-fail.
2012-04-26 09:26:19 PM
1 votes:
Damn Irish! No Irish need apply!

wait? what? Not Irish? Damn Cheese eating Surrender Monkey!
oh? wrong coast?
OK. Damn Chinks, good for nothing but laundry and railro...
Not the Chinese?

OK, who are we haiting now? Cuz it keeps changing.
2012-04-26 06:40:21 PM
1 votes:

ox45tallboy: relcec: more stuff...

So, do you support the law as written?


do you support our immigration policies that devastate working class americans? do you support these policies that have helped to destroy the black american nuclear family and culture?
are you a shill for the 1%ers that flooding this country with low skilled labor in order to increase profits at the expense of the american workers?
would you fight any change in policy on any level that would attempt to improve american workers lives by decreasing the labor supply and increasing their bargaining power?
2012-04-26 06:17:14 PM
1 votes:
http://www.nber.org/papers/w12518.pdf

Effects of Immigration on African-American Employment and Incarceration

"The 1980-2000 immigrant influx, therefore, generally 'explains' about 20 to 60 percent of the decline in wages, 25 percent of the decline in employment, and about 10 percent of the rise in incarceration rates among blacks with a high school education or less."

Almost everybody knows that in the past 40 years, the real wages and job prospects for low-skilled men, especially low-skilled minority workers, have fallen. And there is evidence -- although no consensus -- that a rising tide of immigration is partly to blame. Now, a new NBER study suggests that immigration has more far-reaching consequences than merely depressing wages and lowering employment rates of low-skilled African-American males: its effects also appear to push some would-be workers into crime and, later, into prison...

Take employment rates: from 1960 to 2000, black high school dropouts saw their employment rates drop 33 percentage points -- from 88.6 percent to 55.7 percent -- the authors found in their analysis of census data from 1960 to 2000. The decrease for white high school dropouts was only roughly half that -- from 94.1 percent to 76.0 percent.

One reason, the authors argue, is that black employment is more sensitive to an immigration influx than white employment. For white men, an immigration boost of 10 percent caused their employment rate to fall just 0.7 percentage points; for black men, it fell 2.4 percentage points.

That same immigration rise was also correlated with a rise in incarceration rates. For white men, a 10 percent rise in immigration appeared to cause a 0.1 percentage point increase in the incarceration rate for white men. But for black men, it meant a nearly 1 percentage-point rise.

Why would a boost in immigration effectively put more men, especially black men, behind bars? The authors put forward a straightforward theory: immigration causes wages and employment to fall for black workers. When this happens, some of those workers -- especially those with the lowest skills -- turn to crime to increase their income. Certainly, the census data reveal a statistical link: as immigration began to increase, beginning in the 1980s, so did the institutionalization of low-skilled black men. While the Census Bureau defines institutions to include mental hospitals, the 1980 census -- and Justice Department data -- suggests that the majority of young men who were institutionalized were, in fact, in prison or in jail.

The rise in incarceration is most dramatic for the lowest-skilled black men. In 1980, it was just 1.3 percent; by 2000, it had skyrocketed to 25.1 percent. Even blacks with a high school diploma saw incarceration rates increase from 0.5 percent to 9.8 percent in the same time period. Why the increase? One reason, the authors suggest, is crack cocaine. Cheap to produce, it first appeared in the 1980s and had spread widely by the early 1990s.African-Americans became heavily involved in trafficking it because existing black gangs already controlled many of the urban spaces where it could be easily distributed and sold, the authors say, citing recent research. The surge in drugs caused police to step up enforcement and states to enact tougher sentencing laws. The result: a quarter of low-skilled black men were incarcerated by 2000...

The authors stress that immigration is only one factor in the worsening labor situation of low-skilled African-American men. "The 1980-2000 immigrant influx, therefore, generally 'explains' about 20 to 60 percent of the decline in wages, 25 percent of the decline in employment, and about 10 percent of the rise in incarceration rates among blacks with a high school education or less," they write.
http://www.nber.org/digest/may07/w12518.html

www.ssa.gov

www.migrationinformation.org

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Nationality_Act_of_1965
2012-04-26 05:52:49 PM
1 votes:

I drunk what: apparently the Kool-Aid....


This isn't about "Joe Legal" or "Jose Illegal" or any of the straw man crap. This is about UNITED STATES CITIZENS, i.e., your Joe Legal's having to provide proof of citizenship because of the color of their skin.

Anyone who supports UNITED STATES CITIZENS being demanded "papers, please" from police might as well turn in their civil liberties right now. If you don't value the civil liberties of your fellow citizens, then why should anyone value yours?
2012-04-26 05:47:21 PM
1 votes:
Joe Legal vs. Jose Illegal

Here is an example of why hiring illegal aliens is not economically
productive for the State of California ...

You have 2 families..."Joe Legal" and "Jose Illegal". Both families have 2
parents, 2 children and live in California. "Joe Legal" works in
construction, has a Social Security Number, and makes $25.00 per hour with
payroll taxes deducted...."Jose Illegal" also works in construction, has
"NO" Social Security Number, and gets paid $15.00 cash "under the table".

Joe Legal...$25.00 per hour x 40 hours $1000.00 per week, $52,000 per
year.

Now take 30% away for state federal tax, Joe Legal now has $31,231.00

Jose Illegal...$15.00 per hour x 40 hours $600.00 per week, $31,200.00 per
year. Jose Illegal pays no taxes... Jose Illegal now has $31,200.00

Joe Legal pays Medical and Dental Insurance with limited coverage $1000.00
per month, $12,000.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $19,231.00

Jose Illegal has full Medical and Dental coverage through the state and
local clinics at a cost of $0.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00

Joe Legal makes too much money is not eligible for Food Stamps or welfare.
Joe Legal pays for food $1,000.00 per month, $12,000.00 per year. Joe
Legal now has $7,231.00

Jose Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for Food Stamps and
Welfare. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays rent of $1,000.00 per month. $12,000.00 per year. Joe Legal
is now in the hole minus (-) $4,769.00

Jose Illegal receives a $500 per month Federal rent subsidy. Jose Illegal
pays rent. $500.00 per month. $6,000.00 per year Jose Illegal still has
$31,200.00

Joe Legal now works overtime on Saturdays or gets a part time job after
work.

Jose Illegal has nights and weekends off to enjoy with his family.

Joe Legal's and Jose Illegal's children both attend the same school. Joe
Legal pays for his children's lunches while Jose Illegal's children get a
government sponsored lunch. Jose Illegal's children have an after school
ESL program. Joe Legal's children go home.

Joe Legal and Jose Illegal both enjoy the same Police and Fire Services,
but Joe paid for them and Jose did not pay.

Don't vote/support any politician that supports illegal aliens...Its PAST
time to take a stand for America and Americans!
2012-04-26 05:37:26 PM
1 votes:

DrewCurtisJr: ox45tallboy: "ANY LAWFUL CONTACT."

That can mean anything from getting pulled over for a broken taillight or improper lane change to a passenger being asked to step outside the vehicle to an interview with a witness to a robbery or even a victim reporting a rape.

On April 30, the Arizona legislature passed, and Governor Brewer signed, House Bill 2162, which modified the Act that had been signed a week earlier, with the amended text stating that "prosecutors would not investigate complaints based on race, color or national origin."[28] The new text also states that police may only investigate immigration status incident to a "lawful stop, detention, or arrest", lowers the original fine from a minimum of $500 to a maximum of $100,[26] and changes incarceration limits for first-time offenders from 6 months to 20 days.[9]


First off, imagine that. A law so obviously flawed it had to be modified a mere week later.

Do you really think that a person "walking down the street" cannot be detained for such offenses as "loitering in a designated drug zone"? Do you realize that checking the immigration status of PASSENGERS in a car that has been "lawfully stopped" is covered under this bill?

Do you realize that checking the immigration status of a rape victim is "incident to" the investigation of the rape?

And how in the hell does anyone think a cop can tell "national origin" without asking an individual? Can you tell the difference between a Chilean and a Brasilian? How about an American and a Canadian? A Cambodian and a Laotian?
2012-04-26 05:28:55 PM
1 votes:

KimNorth: Slam1263: So, will one change be that the criminal aliens leave?

They are being deported and then it is documented that the majority are back in the U.S. within 2 weeks to 6 mo.


Yeah, I know. I used to work at a plant nurseryin Oregon. A worker wouldn't come in, and I'd hear thet they got deported, but they would be back a couple of weeks later.

And none of that new name and papers stuff either.

I do like the argument that they don't file for refunds on the taxes they pay, AYUDA would be out ever year helping them get money back from Uncle Sam.
2012-04-26 05:02:12 PM
1 votes:

DrewCurtisJr: ox45tallboy: You see, the one thing that the state cannot do is actually deport people. This is ONLY the function of the Federal government. INS doesn't have the resources, therefore, this person who would otherwise be working and contributing to society (even if he/she doesn't pay income tax - and I'm not about to concede the majority don't - he or she is still contributing labor and paying sales tax and property tax (possibly indirectly through renting).)

First off INS hasn't been an agency in over 9 years, secondly the idea isn't locking up all illegal immigrants in AZ. Simply by not turning a blind eye to the problem will make many illegals leave on their own. If they can't get work, and they could be arrested while being pulled over for speeding, they will not want to live in that environment.


Can you get it through your thick skull that this law was written by the prison system in order to put more people in jail, and that it was passed by a legislature elected by people who want ALL brown people harassed? It's not just that "illegal immigration is takin our jerbs", it's that "I don't want to look at the ugly brown people."

If they wanted to stop the illegals from takin their jerbs, they would crack down even more on those that hire illegals. But they don't. No one likes the idea of the cops running surprise inspections on local white-owned businesses to see if they are abiding by the law and not hiring illegals, but harassing the brown citizens in order to get the brown illegals? Sure!

And yes, I know that they have also passed legislation making it a state crime to knowingly hire illegals. But are they giving the cops the ability to demand the papers of white-owned businesses if there is "reasonable suspicion" they might employing illegals?
2012-04-26 04:38:38 PM
1 votes:

MaliFinn: DrewCurtisJr: ox45tallboy: If cops aren't going to be harassing brown people, then why do they need the explicit right to do so codified into law?

They can already do this. 2 things, it forces sanctuary cities who order police to not follow immigration laws even in cases where they know a person is illegal, also part of the law gives them the power to charge illegal immigrants who ICE refuses to take into custody under the no ID law (which mirrors the federal law)

So - correct me if I'm getting this wrong - the reason people are crying about this law is the verbage that eliminates any local non-enforcement of illegal immigration - people are having a shiat fit because of local politics? That would surprise me. Not unheard of, but I was under the impression that they were angry over the 'reasonable suspicion' part.


No, people are "crying" because this is a direct violation of the civil liberties of CITIZENS OF THE UNITED STATES who happen to be brown. If the state can take away their civil liberties, i.e., demand to see their papers or face a trip to the pokey, then how long will it be until I am under the same restrictions?
2012-04-26 04:36:14 PM
1 votes:

MyRandomName: Satanic_Hamster: RibbyK: FTA: Latinos who are here legally to be asked about their immigration status.

For the past 20 years, I've been asked about my immigration status (Form I-9) on a job application or when hired, and *shock* I didn't run to the ACLU.. If you're in the US legally and actually want a job...

/I wash my own dishes
//Am a proud parent who never hired a babysitter (relatives only)

And guess what? NO ONE CARES or is against businesses doing this when hiring.

What we object to is that American citizens just walking down the street can be subject to arrest solely based on an officer's suspicion that they're not in the country legally.

The law doesn't allow that you farking ignorant retard.


YES IT DOES. All a cop has to do is feel the need to question a person that "fits the description" (Latino male approx. 5'9". 30 yrs of age) of someone who committed another crime. This constitutes "investigation of a crime". Then it's "Papers, please" and off to jail if the guy can't prove he's a citizen.

Don't try to argue, "that's not the way it'll be done in practice". If not, then why word the law this way? Why not write the law in such a way that this is not possible?
2012-04-26 04:32:41 PM
1 votes:

DrewCurtisJr: Headso: They were just talking about this on NPR the other day, there was someone on saying how the immigration department doesn't have the resources to send the millions of illegals through the system and provide them with the lawyers they would need to fight extradition so they prioritize and deal with violent criminals first and then down the line from there. Seems pretty reasonable.

If it is true. I'm skeptical and think the new guidelines are election pandering. They've always focuses their resources on criminals, non criminals are mostly low hanging fruit turned over by local authorities or people swept up in searches for criminals.

I read something recently that since the new rules the number of criminal aliens hadn't gone up as of yet, although they did pull of a big operation earlier this month, it's still early so we'll see if this prioritization approach actually results in more criminal aliens being arrested and deported.


You know, if I could just stop talking, you'd prove all of my points for me. You agree with me, you just can't see it.

You see, the one thing that the state cannot do is actually deport people. This is ONLY the function of the Federal government. INS doesn't have the resources, therefore, this person who would otherwise be working and contributing to society (even if he/she doesn't pay income tax - and I'm not about to concede the majority don't - he or she is still contributing labor and paying sales tax and property tax (possibly indirectly through renting).)

If INS can't deal with it, guess what? AZ pays a private prison to house, feed, clothe, and guard them for an indefinite period. You want to talk about a "drain on society"? There it is, right there.
2012-04-26 04:18:52 PM
1 votes:

MaliFinn: Not unheard of, but I was under the impression that they were angry over the 'reasonable suspicion' part.


What the current case in court is about is the federal government doesn't want states enforcing immigration laws without the federal government's permission.
2012-04-26 04:12:57 PM
1 votes:

ox45tallboy: Beemer_Vol: s2s2s2 Wait, you mean to tell me that a state law that mirrors a federal law might not be declared unconstitutional?

Actually, from what I've read up on it, AZ SB 1070 has a higher regard for human rights than the federal guidance.

Have you read up on the fact that it requires American Farking Citizens to carry proof of citizenship on their person at all times, and that the police have the authority to take you to the pokey if you can not or choose not to produce it on demand?


No it doesn't. Seriously you are an ignorant dumbass. The law is a secondary offense. If stopped for a primary offense a citizen already has to provide identifying information. This can be an is or simply running a name and ss number through the database. This is already done today.

Take 5 farking minutes and read the 7 page law so you don't look as much a dumbass.
2012-04-26 04:01:10 PM
1 votes:

Satanic_Hamster: RibbyK: FTA: Latinos who are here legally to be asked about their immigration status.

For the past 20 years, I've been asked about my immigration status (Form I-9) on a job application or when hired, and *shock* I didn't run to the ACLU.. If you're in the US legally and actually want a job...

/I wash my own dishes
//Am a proud parent who never hired a babysitter (relatives only)

And guess what? NO ONE CARES or is against businesses doing this when hiring.

What we object to is that American citizens just walking down the street can be subject to arrest solely based on an officer's suspicion that they're not in the country legally.


The law doesn't allow that you farking ignorant retard.
2012-04-26 04:00:56 PM
1 votes:

chuckufarlie: I give up. Keep your racism and your ignorance. There is nothing for you.


You give up? Is calling people names, accusing them being racists and making ridiculous claims that you can't provide any evidence for really that hard?
2012-04-26 03:49:13 PM
1 votes:
Here in Oklahoma City the police have formed what they call Drug Interdiction Teams (as have many cities). Here, what they do for the most part is drive up and down I-35 and pull over cars based solely on a profile. And what do you know, every car they pull over has an Hispanic driver. What reason do they have for pulling the cars over? It's almost always illegal lane change. And what reason do they have for a search? The driver was "acting nervous".
These cops are lying scumbags that are willing to lie for an arrest. When you give the police the power to demand papers based on "reasonable suspicion", you have just given them the power to stop anyone at anytime.
2012-04-26 03:45:39 PM
1 votes:

Joe Blowme: Do you carry proof of your citizenship around with you everywhere you go? If you're a citizen, then you probably don't. And you're not required to. But under this law, if your skin is brown, you HAVE to carry PROOF you're a citizen, or get taken to the pokey until you can convince someone to find your proof and bring it to them.

Why do you keep picking on brown people? This law states no color preference yet you keep interjecting it like some racist bastard. You are being willfully misleading and ignorant, lay off the crack and get out of your moms basement once in a while.



I get it. So ... you're not racist (per se), you just leap at every opportunity you have to treat "brown people" like animals.

i41.tinypic.com


And in the last two months, you haven't thought up a better insult than telling someone to "get out of your moms basement once in a while". Obviously, you're some kind of crazy smart genius, and everyone else just doesn't get it.

www.dailyhaha.com
2012-04-26 03:30:39 PM
1 votes:

redmid17: pciszek: DrewCurtisJr: As much stock as I have of fark threads being the authoritative source on the law, you can read the actual law.

Only an Arizona license is acceptable. Out of state licenses are not--and this is a state with enormous tourist and retiree industries, so there are going to be a lot of out-of-staters.

Actually that last part (section 4) says that any valid local, state, or federal ID is acceptable.


no it doesn't, it says any state, local, or national ID card for which it is necessary to provide proof of citizenship in order to obtain. As of now, this is not very many states. See the link I provided earlier.
2012-04-26 03:28:11 PM
1 votes:

chuckufarlie: DrewCurtisJr: chuckufarlie: but there is a reason - suspicion that the person is an illegal alien.

And this reasonable suspicion would come from? And keep in mind that there is an executive order and federal laws that prevent them from doing so just based on a person's ethnicity.

redmid17: To be fair, police often state if they follow you long enough in a car they can pull you over for any number of reasons (not staying in lane, speeding, tailgating, rolling stop, etc..)

They can already do that, they don't need SB 1070. If they aren't doing it already why would they change? Do you think they need this law to hand over someone to ICE?

I give up. Keep your racism and your ignorance. There is nothing for you.


Now come back when you learn to read if you would like to keep discussing the law as it is actually written
2012-04-26 03:25:16 PM
1 votes:

pciszek: DrewCurtisJr: Wow, written a whole 1 week after the law took effect. Clearly established the long term consequences.


Well, apparently crops were already rotting in the fields at that point: Link
If these are the short-term consequences, independent farmers won't be around to find out what the long-term consequences are.
The corporate farms seem to be doing OK, though--maybe that was the real intent of the law all along.


They'll be just fine. The initial hubub turned out to be a lot of knee jerk reaction. The farmers (and although I work in the capitol I live in a rural farming community) planted their fields this spring just like every year.
2012-04-26 03:24:38 PM
1 votes:

ox45tallboy: DrewCurtisJr: ox45tallboy: yes, yes I do. Why in the world would you think cops would be less likely to harass someone from out of state? Do you even know any cops? If so, ask them if they are more likely to ticket someone from out of state.

Yes, I do. I know AZ cops, and yes they are aware that tourism is important to the economy and certainly don't go out of their way to harass visitors.

unless they're brown.

If cops aren't going to be harassing brown people, then why do they need the explicit right to do so codified into law?


Where is this law you keep refering to that lets cops arrest people for being "brown"?
2012-04-26 03:19:20 PM
1 votes:

chuckufarlie: but there is a reason - suspicion that the person is an illegal alien.


And this reasonable suspicion would come from? And keep in mind that there is an executive order and federal laws that prevent them from doing so just based on a person's ethnicity.

redmid17: To be fair, police often state if they follow you long enough in a car they can pull you over for any number of reasons (not staying in lane, speeding, tailgating, rolling stop, etc..)


They can already do that, they don't need SB 1070. If they aren't doing it already why would they change? Do you think they need this law to hand over someone to ICE?
2012-04-26 03:17:37 PM
1 votes:

pciszek: DrewCurtisJr: Pulled over for what?

Under this law, the police can pull over anyone they suspect is in the country illegally (i.e., "looks foreign"). They don't have to be doing anything wrong.


Jesus H Christ, liberals really need to take their heads out of their asses.

Only after a valid stop for other reasons, dick. Just like it works for any other American citizen, dumbass.
2012-04-26 03:17:23 PM
1 votes:

DrewCurtisJr: ox45tallboy: yes, yes I do. Why in the world would you think cops would be less likely to harass someone from out of state? Do you even know any cops? If so, ask them if they are more likely to ticket someone from out of state.

Yes, I do. I know AZ cops, and yes they are aware that tourism is important to the economy and certainly don't go out of their way to harass visitors.


unless they're brown.

If cops aren't going to be harassing brown people, then why do they need the explicit right to do so codified into law?
2012-04-26 03:13:45 PM
1 votes:

DrewCurtisJr: chuckufarlie: to see if they are illegal aliens, DUH!!

You can't just pull people over for no reason.


To be fair, police often state if they follow you long enough in a car they can pull you over for any number of reasons (not staying in lane, speeding, tailgating, rolling stop, etc..)
2012-04-26 03:09:45 PM
1 votes:

pciszek: Under this law, the police can pull over anyone they suspect is in the country illegally (i.e., "looks foreign"). They don't have to be doing anything wrong.


When I made my claim about the licenses I referenced the actual text of the law. Would you do me a favor and reference the actual text of the law that you believe supports your claim?
2012-04-26 03:03:38 PM
1 votes:

RibbyK: About ten years ago in Las Vegas, a cop reminded me that you must always have a valid ID or be subject to arrest. Why doesn't the Supreme Court hear that argument?


I wish they WOULD hear that argument. Citizens are not required to carry "papers" in the US, not yet. You must carry a license when driving as proof that some state or other government entity thinks you can operate a vehicle safely. There is no license required for existing.
2012-04-26 02:58:08 PM
1 votes:

ox45tallboy: yes, yes I do. Why in the world would you think cops would be less likely to harass someone from out of state? Do you even know any cops? If so, ask them if they are more likely to ticket someone from out of state.


Yes, I do. I know AZ cops, and yes they are aware that tourism is important to the economy and certainly don't go out of their way to harass visitors.
2012-04-26 02:57:42 PM
1 votes:

DrewCurtisJr: I did read the law, AZ residents driving will have no problem if they have a license. So that leaves out of state drivers, you really think the AZ cops are going to go out of their way to lock up out of state drivers, tourists?


If they "look foreign", yes.
2012-04-26 02:54:04 PM
1 votes:

pciszek: DrewCurtisJr: As much stock as I have of fark threads being the authoritative source on the law, you can read the actual law.

Only an Arizona license is acceptable. Out of state licenses are not--and this is a state with enormous tourist and retiree industries, so there are going to be a lot of out-of-staters.


Actually that last part (section 4) says that any valid local, state, or federal ID is acceptable.
2012-04-26 02:49:20 PM
1 votes:

Cataholic: In every single Zimmerman thread, we've been told that "hispanic" is not a race, and in fact the man is white. Yet in every Arizona thread, we are told that the only reason this law is in effect is because RACISM! Which is it?


Somebody should embroider that ^^^ into the Constitution.
Yell RACISM when it serves your argument; otherwise go with COLOR BLIND.
I wonder what would happen if Southerners form the National Association for the Advancement of White People [NAAWP] then CNN, Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson would go off-the-charts goofy.
2012-04-26 02:44:43 PM
1 votes:

pciszek: Only an Arizona license is acceptable. Out of state licenses are not--and this is a state with enormous tourist and retiree industries, so there are going to be a lot of out-of-staters.


Yes, tourism is big in AZ, which is exactly why you can see police will start to harass people with out of state licenses, go out of their way to make excuses to detain them for being possibly illegal, and make them leave, tell their friends, and never come back.
2012-04-26 02:35:03 PM
1 votes:

chuckufarlie: thanks for answering my question - you really are that dense.


Feelings hurt because I proved you wrong, so resort to name calling.
2012-04-26 02:32:48 PM
1 votes:

IamAwake: I think you're just missing the part where he doesn't care about those people, because - well - they're brown.


I think you are missing the point where I am correcting him for misrepresenting the law.
2012-04-26 02:29:48 PM
1 votes:

ox45tallboy: yes, and how many states was it again that require proof of citizenship before issuing a license?
Practice what you preach - YOU read the law.


I did read the law, AZ residents driving will have no problem if they have a license. So that leaves out of state drivers, you really think the AZ cops are going to go out of their way to lock up out of state drivers, tourists?
2012-04-26 02:26:17 PM
1 votes:

DrewCurtisJr: pciszek: In Arizona, a drivers license is not considered adequate proof of legal residency.

A PERSON IS PRESUMED TO NOT BE AN ALIEN WHO IS
UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES IF THE PERSON PROVIDES TO THE LAW
ENFORCEMENT OFFICER OR AGENCY ANY OF THE FOLLOWING:
1. A VALID ARIZONA DRIVER LICENSE.
2. A VALID ARIZONA NONOPERATING IDENTIFICATION LICENSE.
3. A VALID TRIBAL ENROLLMENT CARD OR OTHER FORM OF TRIBAL IDENTIFICATION.
4. IF THE ENTITY REQUIRES PROOF OF LEGAL PRESENCE IN THE UNITED STATES
BEFORE ISSUANCE, ANY VALID UNITED STATES FEDERAL, STATE OR LOCAL GOVERNMENT
ISSUED IDENTIFICATION. (PDF)

chuckufarlie: Are you really that dense? It has nothing to do with having a driver's license. This law allows the police to harass anybody who "LOOKS" like an illegal alien. They can pull over and stop anybody as many times as they want.

Right, just like that can now without the feds suing them. As others have stated many times already you have to have reasonable suspicion, that doesn't include being brown. And there is also an additional executive order signed by Brewer which explicitly says you can't use racial profiling.

ox45tallboy: read the thread. Driver's license is not necessarily proof of citizenship.

As much stock as I have of fark threads being the authoritative source on the law, you can read the actual law.


yes, and how many states was it again that require proof of citizenship before issuing a license?
Practice what you preach - YOU read the law.
2012-04-26 02:22:22 PM
1 votes:

tommydee: Caretaker: Funny thing, I bet if you were driving around Europe/Canada/Mexico/Japan/S. Korea/etc. and was pulled over by the police you would be required to show your passport/identification to prove you are in the country legally. Yet, if that same type of policy is suggested here....fingers point, flags raise, and cries of racism become the battle cry.

Would it be racist of the police in Japan to pull a white, American over for speeding/running a red light/ or stopped for committing a crime? Try claiming racism in that case and wait for the chorus of laughs at your ignorance.

This.


Sigh. In another country, yes, I would keep my papers on me at all times. Here in the US, I am A CITIZEN, and so, unless I were driving, I would have no reason to carry 'papers'.

There are many brown CITIZENS who feel the same way I do.

I cannot understand why people think that this law does not specifically target United States Citizens of hispanic descent for harrassment and obligations not shared by the rest of the citizenry.
2012-04-26 02:22:04 PM
1 votes:

pciszek: In Arizona, a drivers license is not considered adequate proof of legal residency.


A PERSON IS PRESUMED TO NOT BE AN ALIEN WHO IS
UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES IF THE PERSON PROVIDES TO THE LAW
ENFORCEMENT OFFICER OR AGENCY ANY OF THE FOLLOWING:
1. A VALID ARIZONA DRIVER LICENSE.
2. A VALID ARIZONA NONOPERATING IDENTIFICATION LICENSE.
3. A VALID TRIBAL ENROLLMENT CARD OR OTHER FORM OF TRIBAL IDENTIFICATION.
4. IF THE ENTITY REQUIRES PROOF OF LEGAL PRESENCE IN THE UNITED STATES
BEFORE ISSUANCE, ANY VALID UNITED STATES FEDERAL, STATE OR LOCAL GOVERNMENT
ISSUED IDENTIFICATION.
(PDF)

chuckufarlie: Are you really that dense? It has nothing to do with having a driver's license. This law allows the police to harass anybody who "LOOKS" like an illegal alien. They can pull over and stop anybody as many times as they want.


Right, just like that can now without the feds suing them. As others have stated many times already you have to have reasonable suspicion, that doesn't include being brown. And there is also an additional executive order signed by Brewer which explicitly says you can't use racial profiling.

ox45tallboy: read the thread. Driver's license is not necessarily proof of citizenship.


As much stock as I have of fark threads being the authoritative source on the law, you can read the actual law.
2012-04-26 02:12:08 PM
1 votes:

Caretaker: Funny thing, I bet if you were driving around Europe/Canada/Mexico/Japan/S. Korea/etc. and was pulled over by the police you would be required to show your passport/identification to prove you are in the country legally. Yet, if that same type of policy is suggested here....fingers point, flags raise, and cries of racism become the battle cry.

Would it be racist of the police in Japan to pull a white, American over for speeding/running a red light/ or stopped for committing a crime? Try claiming racism in that case and wait for the chorus of laughs at your ignorance.


This.
2012-04-26 02:11:22 PM
1 votes:

DrewCurtisJr: armageddonbound: They can pull over anyone for made up reasons and throw them in jail for not having immigration papers, no matter if they are white and are 6th generation citizens.

Well if they are driving they should always have their license on them.


read the thread. Driver's license is not necessarily proof of citizenship.
2012-04-26 01:57:15 PM
1 votes:

pciszek: Citation needed

Here you go: Link



Wow, written a whole 1 week after the law took effect. Clearly established the long term consequences.
2012-04-26 01:53:19 PM
1 votes:

chuckufarlie: that is not going to happen. As soon as they pull over a blue eyed blonde haired person, the people of the state will have a hissy fit. It is aimed at people of Hispanic descent and that is who it will be used against. You know, the people who actually lived there long before any gringo showed up.


It is aimed at illegal immigrants, are you claiming people of Hispanic descent in AZ don't carry driver's licenses while driving?
2012-04-26 01:40:56 PM
1 votes:

Caretaker: Would it be racist of the police in Japan to pull a white, American over for speeding/running a red light/ or stopped for committing a crime? Try claiming racism in that case and wait for the chorus of laughs at your ignorance.


I wasn't aware that Japan had become such a melting pot, thanks for letting me know. Here in the US, a third of the people are brown - have white people become such an ingrained, everyday part of society in Japan that they're a third of the population there? Also, I wasn't aware that southwestern Japan used to be part of the US, and that Japan started a war with us to take that land away from the people who lived there - again, it's good that you're here to teach us these important history lessons. Yeah, it's really quite the same thing, now that you've explained it that way...thanks!
2012-04-26 01:32:47 PM
1 votes:

armageddonbound: They can pull over anyone for made up reasons and throw them in jail for not having immigration papers, no matter if they are white and are 6th generation citizens.


Well if they are driving they should always have their license on them.
2012-04-26 01:30:19 PM
1 votes:
The problem with this law has nothing to do with illegal immigration. It has to do with becoming a police state. They can pull over anyone for made up reasons and throw them in jail for not having immigration papers, no matter if they are white and are 6th generation citizens.
2012-04-26 01:20:48 PM
1 votes:

vudukungfu: I'm not going to complain. I used to advocate that all the farking racists should move to their own farking state.
They pretty much did this with Colorado, Arizona, and Utah.
Now they want to act like racist asshats in thier own sand boxes.
Meh.
We'll take the Mexican up here in Vermont.
Lord knows, we can't get our own farking kids to pull the tit and shovel the shait.


When having nothing intelligent to offer, one can often disguise a lack of intelligence with cries of racism. Observe.
2012-04-26 12:53:40 PM
1 votes:

give me doughnuts: Another moran who can't understand the phrase "reasonable suspicion."


I, for one, completely trust that the officers working under Sheriff Joe will in no way abuse this law.
2012-04-26 12:41:06 PM
1 votes:

ox45tallboy:
It is NOT your job to "enforce the law" on speeders, just like it is NOT the job of state and local police to "enforce the law" on those suspected of immigration law violation.


Wow, you should get to Washington quick - the Supreme Court is wasting their time trying to figure out what you seem to have already decided.
2012-04-26 12:36:42 PM
1 votes:

The One True TheDavid: chooktah:


the average time it takes to do a background check in arizona is 11 minutes. this point/fact was brought up in the proceedings yesterday.

Suppose that 11 minutes means you miss the bus for an appointment to a job interview. And by the time you get there late one of the other hundreds of applicants has already cinched the job. And you and your three kids are facing eviction.

No, no inconvenience at all.


Another moran who can't understand the phrase "reasonable suspicion."

But now go ahead and dazzle us all with your exptensive insider knowledge of police procedure
2012-04-26 12:17:04 PM
1 votes:

GT_bike: 1900 Enter at Ellis Island - give us your name, your sponsor's name and profession etc...

2012 - Farking free for all! You're racist if you don't support it! WOOOOO HOOOOOO!!


So much THIS - since that's what my family tree did, save for the ones that arrived before Ellis Island was a processing facility. All were sought for their work ethic; some came for the opportunity while others came to escape persecution.
2012-04-26 12:16:16 PM
1 votes:

ox45tallboy: Beemer_Vol: s2s2s2 Wait, you mean to tell me that a state law that mirrors a federal law might not be declared unconstitutional?

Actually, from what I've read up on it, AZ SB 1070 has a higher regard for human rights than the federal guidance.

Have you read up on the fact that it requires American Farking Citizens to carry proof of citizenship on their person at all times, and that the police have the authority to take you to the pokey if you can not or choose not to produce it on demand?


Just keep farking that chicken...

In Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada, the Supreme Court upheld state laws requiring citizens to disclose their identity to police when officers have reasonable suspicion to believe criminal activity may be taking place. As of 2008, 24 states had stop-and-identify laws. Regardless of your state's law, keep in mind that police can never compel you to identify yourself without reasonable suspicion to believe you're involved in criminal activity.

Do you see the bolded parts? Do you understand what those words mean?
2012-04-26 12:13:02 PM
1 votes:
ICE's new website now has the ability to report illegal immigrant employers online.

They never use to have that. You use to have to call a toll free number. I reported a couple local scumbag employers myself.
2012-04-26 12:08:30 PM
1 votes:

The One True TheDavid: Yikes. You mean I'll have to carry my birth certificate around? You know, because over the years I've personally met dozens of "illegal immigrants" who were from England, the Netherlands, Sweden, Germany -- several northern European Caucasians from several predominantly northern European Caucasian countries in northern Europe.


Well, the ones in my family tree (French, German and Hungarian) did it legally - with all the paperwork necessary at the time. The worst case is that one branch of my family ended up in today's Maryland instead of North Carolina; however, all had their papers in order even if they weren't all looked as well-favored.

They didnt need fraud-ridden guest worker programs, they didnt need to jump the border, they didn't need to become some special category other than being productive and hardworking person or group of people. So take your favoritism of illegals somewhere else where illegals have overrun the nation - I hear the EU has nations that like you.
2012-04-26 12:05:42 PM
1 votes:
I have no problem with giving the SW back to Mexico while paying all their expenses. Just so long as all the progressives who don't live there now, move there.
2012-04-26 11:51:17 AM
1 votes:

Carth: david_gaithersburg: Carth: mark12A: The Democrats don't want it enforced for humanitarian reasons - these are human farking beings just trying to do better for themselves and their families.

No, the Democrats don't want it enforced because they want to increase the number of Democratic voters. It's like importing a whole new victim class to appease....

How would illegals register to vote?
.
.
Here in Maryland, as in most states, its simply a matter of filing out a little card. I take it you are not old enough to vote yet.

In the states I've lived, VA, NH, MA and OR we had to show proof of residence and ID (social security card, birth certificate or passport). Surprised MD is so different.


.
.
I just pulled up the VA registration form. I'll be. Maryland's gov would never infringe on the rights of illegals to vote in presidential election.
2012-04-26 11:51:04 AM
1 votes:

darknys: Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

What the hell is this socialist shiat?

/mad props on the headline, subby


Yes, by all means... just use the FRONT DOOR!! not break through the window.
2012-04-26 11:40:01 AM
1 votes:

King Something: RibbyK: FTA: Latinos who are here legally to be asked about their immigration status.

For the past 20 years, I've been asked about my immigration status (Form I-9) on a job application or when hired, and *shock* I didn't run to the ACLU.. If you're in the US legally and actually want a job...

/I wash my own dishes
//Am a proud parent who never hired a babysitter (relatives only)

Have you ever been asked about your immigration status at a traffic stop?

Because Arizona's law allows cops to do that. And if you can't prove you're in this country legally right then and there, they'll cuff you and put you in the precinct holding cell until they finish doing enough of a background check on you to determine whether or not you're an illegal immigrant.


the average time it takes to do a background check in arizona is 11 minutes. this point/fact was brought up in the proceedings yesterday.

try again
2012-04-26 11:39:18 AM
1 votes:

slepygryhnd: ox45tallboy: Bunnyhat: Carth: According to the bill's author a driver's license will count as proof of citizenship. So yes I do carry it around everywhere I go. Also when I travel overseas I'm requires to have my passport on me at all times.

That seems silly.
Non-citizens can get driver's licenses.

Sigh. In many states, that is currently true, however, in most of these states, it is only due to the RealID program and "Enhanced Driver's Licenses" which came about after 9/11.

You do NOT need to be a citizen to have a driver's license in many states. How do you think people on student and work visas get around?

I'm currently sitting in a classroom where I'm the only US citizen. (I teach English as a Second Language) and 8 of my 11 students drive on Indiana licenses. The other three live on campus and are only here for a short time.


Replace citizen with "legal resident" since the exact quote is: "[the law] gives any alien with a license a free pass if his immigration status is in doubt. Because Arizona allows only lawful residents to obtain licenses, an officer must presume that someone who produces one is legally in the country. "
2012-04-26 11:38:16 AM
1 votes:

Carth: mark12A: The Democrats don't want it enforced for humanitarian reasons - these are human farking beings just trying to do better for themselves and their families.

No, the Democrats don't want it enforced because they want to increase the number of Democratic voters. It's like importing a whole new victim class to appease....

How would illegals register to vote?


Because ACORN THATS HOW!
2012-04-26 11:37:19 AM
1 votes:

ox45tallboy: taliesinwi: No one's got a problem with people coming into the country legally and becoming a productive member of society. It's what the country was _founded_ on. But there are laws for a reason.

Do you have ANY idea how hard it is to legally immigrate from Mexico? However, if you're Cuban, you just set foot on American soil, and voila, you can stay. These laws are unfairly biased, and I repeat my assertion that in the position of the average Mexican, you would do what it took to survive - i.e., jump the border to the US.

Isn't it ironic how the people that are the most "USA #1!!!" are also the ones that have trouble figuring out why illegal immigrants come here in the first place?


I don't have trouble. I know why. Mexico is a cesspool unless you're one of the "haves". I understand the motivation. I understand the immigration laws are somewhat tilted. THAT DOESN'T GIVE ANYONE A PASS. That's kind of like saying that because the food at the supermarket is "unfairly priced" you have the right to just take it home with you for free. This isn't jingoism. This is economics.

Right now Mexico has zero incentive to fix their problems because the people that are affected by the corruption and crappy economy try to get into the US as soon as possible. Now that's harder to do, those people will have to stay put, and the Mexican government is going to learn _quickly_ that having a pissed off underclass majority is not conducive to staying in power very long, and things will hopefully start to get solved. Obviously that's not the far-reaching consequence that laws like this intend, but what can you do?
2012-04-26 11:36:15 AM
1 votes:

ox45tallboy: Have you read up on the fact that it requires American Farking Citizens to carry proof of citizenship on their person at all times, and that the police have the authority to take you to the pokey if you can not or choose not to produce it on demand?


Well yeah. If you are going to commit a crime, you would have to have your papers to let them know whether they were arresting a citizen or an illegal resident. If you aren't committing a crime, they can't stop you. But you know that, so what's the problem?
2012-04-26 11:33:34 AM
1 votes:
I am against illegals (besides border jumping) for the fact it makes them a new "slave class" in a way. They have limited rights, limited recourse on legal disputs, limited pay for a hard days work.
2012-04-26 11:33:13 AM
1 votes:

spentmiles: The real problem is that Americans are, as a people, sedentary. Don't get me wrong, I'm American, and I love America. But as a culture, we've never been explorers. We've always been settlers. And once settled, we will hold on to our little plot of land no matter how ridiculously bad conditions get.


www.mayflowerhistory.com

www.proprofs.com

blogs.archives.gov

a.abcnews.com

news.discovery.com

NOT PICTURED: Expeditions to the depths of the human soul, for that American's created the internet.
2012-04-26 11:31:12 AM
1 votes:

tricycleracer: I bet he's against National ID cards "for freedom's sake."


Damn skippy. I don't live in Nazi Germany, and it's bad enough I'm expected to disclose my Social Security number if I want electricity.
2012-04-26 11:30:41 AM
1 votes:

qorkfiend: umad: ox45tallboy: 1 - Nearly every illegal immigrant I know that has a legitimate job using false papers pays more taxes than you or I - because they *gasp* don't file for a refund.

Yeah, that couple of hundred bucks I get back for my refund absolutely dwarfs the tens of thousands I paid in this year.

This is what liberals actually believe.

I don't know if it's possible to miss the point by a wider margin.

Your taxes a couple hundred bucks less than the illegal immigrant with the same job, since he doesn't farking file for his refund like you do.


I didn't miss the point. I don't pick vegetables for 5 dollars an hour. I would bet every dollar to my name that I do in fact pay more in taxes than "nearly every illegal immigrant he knows."
2012-04-26 11:30:10 AM
1 votes:
Posted in yesterday's thread, but here it is again:

Young men in Mexico say the US no longer offers them a better future

I liked this part:

The choice to stay home appears to have little to with the ongoing militarisation of the long US-Mexico border that started in the mid-1980s. The border now costs $3.5bn annually in fence construction and technology that includes drones and motion sensors. Critics say it's an effective local employment boon - the number of border agents has tripled in recent years - but little more: the measures do not in themselves dissuade migrants.

USA! USA! Let's build some more fences. They're job creators.
2012-04-26 11:29:14 AM
1 votes:

Joe Blowme: If you commit a crime, the police have to know who you are so they can charge you. You have to be stopped for something else not just "walking down the street" as you are claiming. Why is that so hard to grasp? Cops want to know who you are so they can run you through the system and find out if you have any warrants and such. Its not a racist thing, its a law enforcement thing.

/i think you are just bigoted against cops and are saying they are all too racist to enforce this law as written.


Sigh. The applicable part of the law is the "...as part of an investigation..." crap. This means that they do not have to suspect a person of committing a crime (although loitering is illegal), they can be questioning someone about a crime committed by someone else and demand the citizenship.

I don't give two shiats about how you think the law will be enforced, what is important is WHAT THE LAW SAYS.

BTW, 4 of my uncles are in law enforcement. One is the Sheriff of a small county in TN, one is a Lt in the police force of a decent sized city, one is a prison guard, and one is over all of the West TN State Troopers. I think it's safe to say I'm not bigoted against cops, just against stupid laws passed by bigots.
2012-04-26 11:28:41 AM
1 votes:
Enforcing immigration laws: only evil when America does it.
2012-04-26 11:25:59 AM
1 votes:

qorkfiend: Your taxes a couple hundred bucks less than the illegal immigrant with the same job, since he doesn't farking file for his refund like you do.


What kind of moron doesn't adjust their withholdings so that things come out even on tax day? Quit making shiat up. Most of them are paid in cash under the table anyway.
2012-04-26 11:25:11 AM
1 votes:

ox45tallboy: umad: ox45tallboy: 1 - Nearly every illegal immigrant I know that has a legitimate job using false papers pays more taxes than you or I - because they *gasp* don't file for a refund.

Yeah, that couple of hundred bucks I get back for my refund absolutely dwarfs the tens of thousands I paid in this year.

This is what liberals actually believe.

Know how I know you must not be claiming Earned Income Credit on a barely-above-minimum-wage job, like most illegals would be able to do?


.
.
According to the IRS they hand out billions of dollars every year in EICs to illegal aliens. Google it for yourself.
2012-04-26 11:23:40 AM
1 votes:

Satanic_Hamster: FlashHarry: good. let red states kick out the "illegals" and watch their economies take a massive hit like they already are in alabama and georgia. the law of unintended consequences - it's more common than you'd think, especially when your laws are written by racist morons.

Honestly, I'm more concerned about scaring illegals from even talking to law enforcement, which is already a problem as it is.


Here in Alabama they protest right in front of the capitol building daring the police to arrest them. They're still sitting out waiting for work in the same spots in Birmingham they were before. The numbers went down when the law first went into effect but it's mostly bounced back. They don't appear to be afraid of the cops at all from what I can see.

/And a slow clap to FlashHarry for a magnificent trolling threadshiat.
2012-04-26 11:19:13 AM
1 votes:
Brostorm:

I am a democrat and in no way consider myself racist. All entry level construction jobs in NJ and many advanced ones are going to illegal immigrants here.

All? Every single one? In the whole state of NJ?

I bow before thee, O All-Seeing and All-Knowing d00d. Who's gonna win the Kentucky Derby this year?


There are a plethora of what used to be middle class labor jobs which are given to illegals here for low wages and lining the pockets of owners more than ever.

By definition the middle class does not work at manual labor.

You probably mean "workers who used to have strong unions." Who lost them because the Republican Party with the assistance of oodles of whorish Democrats set out to "make America strong again." Which they voted for with definitive majorities.

Ain't it a shame when the chickens come home to roost?


The answer is and always had been...

Socialism. HTH!

And by the way, Justice Taney, who was a democrat and in no way considered himself racist, opined that African-Americans had "no rights which the white man was bound to respect." (link) That wasn't racism, sir or ma'am: that was indeed the original intent of the Founders, firmly based on the Holy Bible and the scientific laws of Nature.

Oh, and by the way, before the Civil war the Irish weren't White (link).
2012-04-26 11:18:04 AM
1 votes:

Joe Blowme: You have to be stopped for something else not just "walking down the street" as you are claiming.


No, you don't, actually. Under the law a police officer can stop you and ask for identification if he has a "reasonable suspicion" you might be an illegal immigrant. The scenario of a cop demanding citizenship papers from someone walking down the street because he thinks they look suspicious is not far-fetched.
2012-04-26 11:17:23 AM
1 votes:

Carth: mark12A: The Democrats don't want it enforced for humanitarian reasons - these are human farking beings just trying to do better for themselves and their families.

No, the Democrats don't want it enforced because they want to increase the number of Democratic voters. It's like importing a whole new victim class to appease....

How would illegals register to vote?

.
.
Here in Maryland, as in most states, its simply a matter of filing out a little card. I take it you are not old enough to vote yet.
2012-04-26 11:16:16 AM
1 votes:

Joe Blowme: In my state you must show SS card, BC (not a copy) , and some form of picture id such as school id.
I bet you had to have the BC to get a SS number so in effect you did have to show it.
And as others have stated, is it racist to require visitors to carry passports? evey country requires this.


Sigh. It is ALREADY the law that visitors carry their documents. Now AMERICAN FARKING CITIZENS have to carry their papers as well, or get thrown in the pokey.

How hard is this to understand?
2012-04-26 11:12:41 AM
1 votes:

umad: ox45tallboy: 1 - Nearly every illegal immigrant I know that has a legitimate job using false papers pays more taxes than you or I - because they *gasp* don't file for a refund.

Yeah, that couple of hundred bucks I get back for my refund absolutely dwarfs the tens of thousands I paid in this year.

This is what liberals actually believe.


I don't know if it's possible to miss the point by a wider margin.

Your taxes a couple hundred bucks less than the illegal immigrant with the same job, since he doesn't farking file for his refund like you do.
2012-04-26 11:11:38 AM
1 votes:

ox45tallboy: Joe Blowme: Why do you keep picking on brown people? This law states no color preference yet you keep interjecting it like some racist bastard. You are being willfully misleading and ignorant, lay off the crack and get out of your moms basement once in a while.

I'm not picking on brown people, the law is. I'm saying it's silly to force UNITED STATES CITIZENS to carry "proof of citizenship" on their person at all times or get rounded up and taken to the pokey.


Cop:
Look here, watch my lips
Where were ya born?

Cheech:
I was BORN IN EAST L.A.
Man, I was BORN IN EAST L.A.

Cop: Oh yeah, you were BORN IN EAST L.A.
Let`s see your green card

Cheech:
Huh? Green card?
I`m from East LA

Cop:
Alright, then who`s President of the United States

Cheech:
Oh, that`s easy, man
That guy that used to be on Death Valley Days, John Wayne

(Cop:
Alright, let`s go, come on

Cheech:)
Next thing I know, I`m in a foreign land
People talkin so fast, I couldn`t understand
There was nobody there to lend a helping hand
I was cold, it was dark where is a burger stand


Everyone Hispanic!!!


Fark the illegals and the cartel/gang overlords that smuggle them in along with their 3rd world crime, dope and misery. Unless of course, you like that sort of thing in your neighborhood.
2012-04-26 11:11:13 AM
1 votes:
s2s2s2 Wait, you mean to tell me that a state law that mirrors a federal law might not be declared unconstitutional?

Actually, from what I've read up on it, AZ SB 1070 has a higher regard for human rights than the federal guidance.
2012-04-26 11:11:04 AM
1 votes:

Joe Blowme: Satanic_Hamster: RibbyK: FTA: Latinos who are here legally to be asked about their immigration status.

For the past 20 years, I've been asked about my immigration status (Form I-9) on a job application or when hired, and *shock* I didn't run to the ACLU.. If you're in the US legally and actually want a job...

/I wash my own dishes
//Am a proud parent who never hired a babysitter (relatives only)

And guess what? NO ONE CARES or is against businesses doing this when hiring.

What we object to is that American citizens just walking down the street can be subject to arrest solely based on an officer's suspicion that they're not in the country legally.

WRONG. Citation needed. Just "walking down the street" is no where in the bill but thanks for your 2 cents worth of made up shiat.


RIGHT. "Just walking down the street" is SOP for police targeting a demographic (such as drug dealing on the corner). In this case, it is not even a stretch for a cop to question individuals on the street regarding a recent crime, therefore they would be demanding their papers "in the course of an investigation", rather than "just because".
2012-04-26 11:09:42 AM
1 votes:

ox45tallboy: The laws are racist, and are supported by a bunch of racist asshats (which is why you see these laws in places with a history of racial conflict, such as Georgia and Alabama). But that doesn't mean that the people who wrote the law in order to play off of racial prejudices are necessarily racist themselves, and they certainly aren't morons.


So it's like gun control laws?
2012-04-26 11:03:22 AM
1 votes:

ox45tallboy: 1 - Nearly every illegal immigrant I know that has a legitimate job using false papers pays more taxes than you or I - because they *gasp* don't file for a refund.


Yeah, that couple of hundred bucks I get back for my refund absolutely dwarfs the tens of thousands I paid in this year.

This is what liberals actually believe.
2012-04-26 11:02:24 AM
1 votes:

ox45tallboy: This training is on complying with Arizona's law, not with Federal Immigration Policy - which is what they claim they are "enforcing".


So they are trained to do what they are doing, but are lying about what they are doing?
Can you show me where the two laws differ? I ask because you already seem to know, and I don't want to just look stuff up with my bias getting in the way.
2012-04-26 11:02:01 AM
1 votes:

ox45tallboy: Joe Blowme: ox45tallboy: Thunderpipes: My driver's license shows my immigration status.

What state do you live in? Mine doesn't.

Yes it does. What did you have to show the DMV to get said drivers license?

Here you go.

Also, here's a REALLY current (as in today) article discussing which states have DL's or ID's that can be used as proof of citizenship under the EDL program.

And for the record, my first license was in TN, where I showed my Social Security card and HS diploma (graduated early, otherwise would have had to show proof of attendance from my school). No birth certificate. (NOTE; this changed a few years ago in TN, now you have to show proof of citizenship).


In my state you must show SS card, BC (not a copy) , and some form of picture id such as school id.
I bet you had to have the BC to get a SS number so in effect you did have to show it.
And as others have stated, is it racist to require visitors to carry passports? evey country requires this.
2012-04-26 10:57:25 AM
1 votes:

Joe Blowme: Why do you keep picking on brown people? This law states no color preference yet you keep interjecting it like some racist bastard. You are being willfully misleading and ignorant, lay off the crack and get out of your moms basement once in a while.


I'm not picking on brown people, the law is. I'm saying it's silly to force UNITED STATES CITIZENS to carry "proof of citizenship" on their person at all times or get rounded up and taken to the pokey.
2012-04-26 10:56:47 AM
1 votes:

Bees are livestock: I live on the S.Texas border.
When I leave the RGV to go to Corpus Christi I must pass through a Border Patrol checkpoint on U.S. 77. They stop every vehicle and ask if you are a U.S. citizen and run the dog around the vehicle. Every road out of S. Texas has Border Patrol checkpoints.
Where is the outrage?? I mean I live in the U.S. the checkpionts are somewhere near 60 miles north from the border.


I hated those farking checkpoints. I used to live in New Mexico and yes, the one I had to go through any time I went north of town was about 60 miles from the border. Then there was another one that I had to go through when I went to work, about 50 miles north of the border. Going to Arizona? Get ready for the agricultural checkpoint, also mandatory. Now I suppose it's also been expanded to be an immigration checkpoint.

I'm sure they caught lots and lots of illegals, since these were permanent, long-standing stations on the major highways. Nothing any illegal could ever find a way around.
2012-04-26 10:54:23 AM
1 votes:
I guess I don't understand in not wanting illegal immigrants in your state/country is racist. Have them apply for citizenship, etc. I'm not for just out and out booting them out, but why are they illegal? And why should we let them remain so?

If the laws/applications are too expensive or complicated then pare them down. But if they come over here to make sure they get free health care and don't have to worry about taxes, or they're here fleeing the law from another country, then why wouldn't anyone have a problem w/ that?
2012-04-26 10:53:06 AM
1 votes:
s2s2s2:

Wait, you mean to tell me that a state law that mirrors a federal law might not be declared unconstitutional?

They're both immoral.

And as far as "unconstitutional" goes, slavery and Jim Crow were both constitutional for a while; the former was even mentioned in the Constitution 1.0. Yessir, the original intent of the drafters of the U.S. Constitution was to recognize, protect and perpetuate American citizens' right to own people with recent sub-Saharan African ancestry. If it weren't for that "evil overlord" Lincoln these "illegal" Latino immigrants would have nothing to do here.

For that matter, from 1919 till 1933 it was right in the Constitution that "the manufacture, sale, or transportation of intoxicating liquors within, the importation thereof into, or the exportation thereof from the United States and all territory subject to the jurisdiction thereof for beverage purposes is hereby prohibited."

Ain't the Constitution of the USofA a wonderful document? Truly all must bow before it and before its current interpretation by whatever political hacks happen to be wearing black robes up there.
2012-04-26 10:52:44 AM
1 votes:

Carth: How would illegals register to vote?


First step is to stop enforcement, second step is path to citizenship.
2012-04-26 10:47:45 AM
1 votes:

ox45tallboy: ChiliCon: In before the race baiters..... oh, wait.. never mind.

This is a simple non-racial issue. The federal government is refusing to enforce a federal immigration law that is costing the people of the state money in taxes to educate and support (through law enforcement, social services, and medical care).

The state, who has the most to lose in monetary terms, has passed a law to allow them to enforce a federal law to reduce the burden of unlawful immigrants.

The law does not state, "Round up all brown people and catapult them back over the border."

The law DOES state "round up all the brown people that cannot PROVE they are here legally, and stick them in a private facility run at taxpayer's expense until ICE decides whether or not to deport them."

Everyone defending the law claims that illegal immigrants are "taking all the jobs, and using all the resources". Three things:

1 - Nearly every illegal immigrant I know that has a legitimate job using false papers pays more taxes than you or I - because they *gasp* don't file for a refund.


They also probably lean on social services more heavily than your average citizen for the same reasons - they have to stay off the radar. If you're drawing as much or more out of the system as you're putting in, that's not exactly something that will scale.
There's also the chance the legit social security number they made up belongs to someone else, which is _itself_ a crime.

2 - Why not go after the business owner that hires the illegals instead of citizens? Yes, I know governments are beginning to do this as well, but if you want a job currently staffed by illegals, why do you view the illegals as the problem, and not the business owner hiring them? Why don't you file a complaint against the business owner?

I fully agree. If there's no one willing to hire someone under the table, the supply eventually figures it out, and goes away. There was an immigration bust at a meat packing plant in southern WI a couple years back and everyone protested the bust because the company was "creating jobs". The fact that they were breaking the law and exploiting people apparently got them a pass in the local community.

If your country was as much of a shiathole as Mexico, wouldn't you move somewhere else to try to make a better life for yourself? Why blame someone for doing exactly the same thing you would do in the same position?

No one's got a problem with people coming into the country legally and becoming a productive member of society. It's what the country was _founded_ on. But there are laws for a reason.
2012-04-26 10:45:42 AM
1 votes:

RibbyK: FTA: Latinos who are here legally to be asked about their immigration status.

For the past 20 years, I've been asked about my immigration status (Form I-9) on a job application or when hired, and *shock* I didn't run to the ACLU.. If you're in the US legally and actually want a job...

/I wash my own dishes
//Am a proud parent who never hired a babysitter (relatives only)


And guess what? NO ONE CARES or is against businesses doing this when hiring.

What we object to is that American citizens just walking down the street can be subject to arrest solely based on an officer's suspicion that they're not in the country legally.
2012-04-26 10:45:03 AM
1 votes:

fakeeyes: Yeah, and it might lead to the needless detainment of heads of international companies. Hopefully,, this does happen, and Arizona looses millions of dollars. Money usually speaks louder than the xenophobic ethnist asshats who wrote up this POS descriminatory law.


Already happened in Alabama. Oddly enough, didn't seem to bother anyone.

Link

Funny thing too, the guy was from Germany, so I highly doubt he was brown.
2012-04-26 10:39:30 AM
1 votes:

s2s2s2: ox45tallboy: Arizona (and Georgia and Alabama) cops are NOT trained to do this.

You are wrong, I am not surprised.


This training is on complying with Arizona's law, not with Federal Immigration Policy - which is what they claim they are "enforcing".
2012-04-26 10:36:16 AM
1 votes:

ox45tallboy: Thunderpipes: My driver's license shows my immigration status.

What state do you live in? Mine doesn't.


Yes it does. What did you have to show the DMV to get said drivers license?
2012-04-26 10:32:31 AM
1 votes:

ox45tallboy: The law DOES state "round up all the brown people that cannot PROVE they are here legally, and stick them in a private facility run at taxpayer's expense until ICE decides whether or not to deport them."


No it doesn't, that is an outright lie.


2 - Why not go after the business owner that hires the illegals instead of citizens? Yes, I know governments are beginning to do this as well, but if you want a job currently staffed by illegals, why do you view the illegals as the problem, and not the business owner hiring them? Why don't you file a complaint against the business owner? If your country was as much of a shiathole as Mexico, wouldn't you move somewhere else to try to make a better life for yourself? Why blame someone for doing exactly the same thing you would do in the same position?

That was the first AZ immigration law this administration challenged, and lost. Supreme Court upholds Arizona employer sanctions law
2012-04-26 10:30:40 AM
1 votes:
What most people do not understand about Mexican immigration into the US is the support business owners give to maintaining the status quo. They see anti-immigration laws cutting into their profit margins if they can no longer exploit illegal workers. Anti-immigration legislation is a political football used by politicians to further their own self-serving agendas, and is rooted in the support of not only racists in the population, but by many US citizens who see the flood of immigration as a prime mover in increased crime, devalued property, increased tax burdens and all the other societal ills associated with the expansion of masses of uneducated immigrants from places where the rule of law is purely a function of wealth.

You think the US has a corrupt political and economic system?

Try living in Mexico for a while.
Think Mos Eisley without Jawas.

\ Wretched hive etc...
2012-04-26 10:26:22 AM
1 votes:
I'm extremely confused on the media spin that the justices are likely to let the law go through because that's not what I heard at all. I heard on justice ask AZ 's attorney if it was true that a natural born US citizen has no document to prove they are legal, and another note that there are certain types of immigrants who are here legally who would show up as marked for removal (such as asylum seekers) and finally the Chief Justice asked if people who were totally legal might nonetheless be held in jail for weeks or even months before their legality could be established.

Those are not the questions of people fixing to uphold a law
2012-04-26 10:25:19 AM
1 votes:

ChiliCon: In before the race baiters..... oh, wait.. never mind.

This is a simple non-racial issue. The federal government is refusing to enforce a federal immigration law that is costing the people of the state money in taxes to educate and support (through law enforcement, social services, and medical care).

The state, who has the most to lose in monetary terms, has passed a law to allow them to enforce a federal law to reduce the burden of unlawful immigrants.

The law does not state, "Round up all brown people and catapult them back over the border."


The law DOES state "round up all the brown people that cannot PROVE they are here legally, and stick them in a private facility run at taxpayer's expense until ICE decides whether or not to deport them."

Everyone defending the law claims that illegal immigrants are "taking all the jobs, and using all the resources". Three things:

1 - Nearly every illegal immigrant I know that has a legitimate job using false papers pays more taxes than you or I - because they *gasp* don't file for a refund.

2 - Why not go after the business owner that hires the illegals instead of citizens? Yes, I know governments are beginning to do this as well, but if you want a job currently staffed by illegals, why do you view the illegals as the problem, and not the business owner hiring them? Why don't you file a complaint against the business owner? If your country was as much of a shiathole as Mexico, wouldn't you move somewhere else to try to make a better life for yourself? Why blame someone for doing exactly the same thing you would do in the same position?

3 - Are you saying that the children who are using these social services (Medicaid, education) should not be provided for? Many, if not most, are freakin' American citizens! If you give them health care and education now, guess what? They're less likely to turn to a life of crime to support themselves, costing society far more in the long run due to the social cost of the crime itself as well as their incarceration.
2012-04-26 10:24:21 AM
1 votes:
So, will one change be that the criminal aliens leave?
2012-04-26 10:22:12 AM
1 votes:

ox45tallboy: What planing crops may look like:


Well minor typo aside, let's see what the long term consequences are on farming, the media rushed out 2 weeks after the law was passed and suggested there was absolutely no way to adjust to the temporary labor shortages.
2012-04-26 10:14:00 AM
1 votes:

s2s2s2: ox45tallboy: Weak minded people can't face up to reality and call it what it is.

So that is why you can't refer to it as "enforcing the law". Thanks for helping. Those words in quotations aren't hard to say, you should practice.


Sigh.

Look, are you, as a private citizen, allowed to "enforce the law" when you see someone speeding? Can you write them a ticket? Of course not. Our society only gives this right to individuals who are trained to do so.

Arizona (and Georgia and Alabama) cops are NOT trained to do this. We do not give this right to state police for this reason. However, these states (at the behest of the private prison industry, who is set to make a fortune off this at taxpayers' expense) decided to grab this authority for themselves. Racist individuals, who don't have to worry about getting mistaken for illegal immigrants because their skin is the right color, supported and passed this law.

It is NOT your job to "enforce the law" on speeders, just like it is NOT the job of state and local police to "enforce the law" on those suspected of immigration law violation.
2012-04-26 10:11:45 AM
1 votes:
Maybe the cops should just quit and go to states that don't try to make their jobs even tougher than they already are. Maybe everyone who's not old and lily white should leave the state, too. All that would be left are a bunch of old people trying to change their own diapers and some college Republicans maybe. fark Arizona.
2012-04-26 10:06:29 AM
1 votes:

RibbyK: FlashHarry: good. let red states kick out the "illegals" and watch their economies take a massive hit like they already are in alabama and georgia. the law of unintended consequences - it's more common than you'd think, especially when your laws are written by racist morons.

Citation needed


UA economist finds immigration law could cost Alabama millions in lost taxes, billions in lost GDP

FTFA:

The analysis by Dr. Samuel Addy found that 40,000 to 80,000 workers earning between $15,000 to $35,000 annually have left the state. Those departures, the study found, mean the loss of 70,000 to 140,000 direct and indirect jobs.

The chief problem, the study finds, is that demand in the economy is reduced.

"As a result of this exodus, aggregate demand has been reduced, a negative shock that puts the state's economy on a lower growth path than would have been the case without the law," the report argues.
2012-04-26 10:05:27 AM
1 votes:

ox45tallboy: Weak minded people can't face up to reality and call it what it is.


So that is why you can't refer to it as "enforcing the law". Thanks for helping. Those words in quotations aren't hard to say, you should practice.
2012-04-26 10:04:42 AM
1 votes:

RussianPooper: spentmiles: The real problem is that Americans are, as a people, sedentary. Don't get me wrong, I'm American, and I love America. But as a culture, we've never been explorers. We've always been settlers. And once settled, we will hold on to our little plot of land no matter how ridiculously bad conditions get.

[www.americaslibrary.gov image 589x580]


+1 Bravo!
2012-04-26 10:03:01 AM
1 votes:

hbk72777: Can you say racist one more time?

/weak minded people have such limited vocabularies


RACIST RACIST RACIST.

Weak minded people can't face up to reality and call it what it is.
2012-04-26 09:59:18 AM
1 votes:

FlashHarry: good. let red states kick out the "illegals" and watch their economies take a massive hit like they already are in alabama and georgia. the law of unintended consequences - it's more common than you'd think, especially when your laws are written by racist morons.


Citation needed
2012-04-26 09:55:52 AM
1 votes:

rudemix: Best of luck finding enough of a workforce in your population full of geriatrics and trash to work in AZ heat through the summer.


I live in Yuma and am really getting a kick... well, no. No, I'm not going to enjoy the summer. The summers are evil.

/and great headline, subby!
2012-04-26 09:55:14 AM
1 votes:
This has to do with one illegal alien, in particular:

protoplasm.files.wordpress.com
2012-04-26 09:52:06 AM
1 votes:
plus4chan.org

Well done, subby.
2012-04-26 09:52:03 AM
1 votes:
Best of luck finding enough of a workforce in your population full of geriatrics and trash to work in AZ heat through the summer.
2012-04-26 09:48:33 AM
1 votes:
Even the most liberal SCOTUS members are more conservative than Mitt Romney.
2012-04-26 09:29:11 AM
1 votes:
Ooooh, buuuurn.
 
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