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(NPR)   Arizona migrant case could lead to sweeping changes. Also dishwashing changes, landscaping changes, and nanny changes   (npr.org) divider line 404
    More: Obvious, Arizona Attorney General, state crime, federal courts, illegal immigrants  
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6737 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Apr 2012 at 9:41 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-26 02:05:53 PM

DrewCurtisJr: Wow, written a whole 1 week after the law took effect. Clearly established the long term consequences.



Well, apparently crops were already rotting in the fields at that point: Link
If these are the short-term consequences, independent farmers won't be around to find out what the long-term consequences are.
The corporate farms seem to be doing OK, though--maybe that was the real intent of the law all along.
 
2012-04-26 02:07:15 PM

DrewCurtisJr: chuckufarlie: that is not going to happen. As soon as they pull over a blue eyed blonde haired person, the people of the state will have a hissy fit. It is aimed at people of Hispanic descent and that is who it will be used against. You know, the people who actually lived there long before any gringo showed up.

It is aimed at illegal immigrants, are you claiming people of Hispanic descent in AZ don't carry driver's licenses while driving?


Are you really that dense? It has nothing to do with having a driver's license. This law allows the police to harass anybody who "LOOKS" like an illegal alien. They can pull over and stop anybody as many times as they want.
 
2012-04-26 02:11:22 PM

DrewCurtisJr: armageddonbound: They can pull over anyone for made up reasons and throw them in jail for not having immigration papers, no matter if they are white and are 6th generation citizens.

Well if they are driving they should always have their license on them.


read the thread. Driver's license is not necessarily proof of citizenship.
 
2012-04-26 02:12:08 PM

Caretaker: Funny thing, I bet if you were driving around Europe/Canada/Mexico/Japan/S. Korea/etc. and was pulled over by the police you would be required to show your passport/identification to prove you are in the country legally. Yet, if that same type of policy is suggested here....fingers point, flags raise, and cries of racism become the battle cry.

Would it be racist of the police in Japan to pull a white, American over for speeding/running a red light/ or stopped for committing a crime? Try claiming racism in that case and wait for the chorus of laughs at your ignorance.


This.
 
2012-04-26 02:17:02 PM

Caretaker: Interesting how I have read in the past that many posters here think the U.S. should adopt more social/nationwide programs similar to those in Europe and other countries.

Funny thing, I bet if you were driving around Europe/Canada/Mexico/Japan/S. Korea/etc. and was pulled over by the police you would be required to show your passport/identification to prove you are in the country legally. Yet, if that same type of policy is suggested here....fingers point, flags raise, and cries of racism become the battle cry.

Would it be racist of the police in Japan to pull a white, American over for speeding/running a red light/ or stopped for committing a crime? Try claiming racism in that case and wait for the chorus of laughs at your ignorance.


If you know of any country in Europe that is going to pull a person over without proper cause, you let me know. I can tell you right now that It will not happen in Japan, they are civilized.

Or are you not aware that the Arizona Law does not require that a person be suspected of any crime??
 
2012-04-26 02:20:30 PM

King Something: RibbyK: FTA: Latinos who are here legally to be asked about their immigration status.

For the past 20 years, I've been asked about my immigration status (Form I-9) on a job application or when hired, and *shock* I didn't run to the ACLU.. If you're in the US legally and actually want a job...

/I wash my own dishes
//Am a proud parent who never hired a babysitter (relatives only)

Have you ever been asked about your immigration status at a traffic stop?

Because Arizona's law allows cops to do that. And if you can't prove you're in this country legally right then and there, they'll cuff you and put you in the precinct holding cell until they finish doing enough of a background check on you to determine whether or not you're an illegal immigrant.


Having been accused of running a stop sign, I've been asked about my child's' immigration status. Yes, she's an American. Yes, you're a racist if you support the S.S. style paper checking crap. Yes, you are also an a$$hole.
 
2012-04-26 02:22:04 PM

pciszek: In Arizona, a drivers license is not considered adequate proof of legal residency.


A PERSON IS PRESUMED TO NOT BE AN ALIEN WHO IS
UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES IF THE PERSON PROVIDES TO THE LAW
ENFORCEMENT OFFICER OR AGENCY ANY OF THE FOLLOWING:
1. A VALID ARIZONA DRIVER LICENSE.
2. A VALID ARIZONA NONOPERATING IDENTIFICATION LICENSE.
3. A VALID TRIBAL ENROLLMENT CARD OR OTHER FORM OF TRIBAL IDENTIFICATION.
4. IF THE ENTITY REQUIRES PROOF OF LEGAL PRESENCE IN THE UNITED STATES
BEFORE ISSUANCE, ANY VALID UNITED STATES FEDERAL, STATE OR LOCAL GOVERNMENT
ISSUED IDENTIFICATION.
(PDF)

chuckufarlie: Are you really that dense? It has nothing to do with having a driver's license. This law allows the police to harass anybody who "LOOKS" like an illegal alien. They can pull over and stop anybody as many times as they want.


Right, just like that can now without the feds suing them. As others have stated many times already you have to have reasonable suspicion, that doesn't include being brown. And there is also an additional executive order signed by Brewer which explicitly says you can't use racial profiling.

ox45tallboy: read the thread. Driver's license is not necessarily proof of citizenship.


As much stock as I have of fark threads being the authoritative source on the law, you can read the actual law.
 
2012-04-26 02:22:05 PM

chuckufarlie: Are you really that dense? It has nothing to do with having a driver's license. This law allows the police to harass anybody who "LOOKS" like an illegal alien. They can pull over and stop anybody as many times as they want.


I think you're just missing the part where he doesn't care about those people, because - well - they're brown. Clearly, being brown, they deserve such treatment. Further, it isn't at all a portent of what will happen to whites just a few years later. No no, we're not rapidly tossing aside our liberties at an astonishing rate - I mean, we'd never put up with naked pictures being taken of our children who are then groped while we watch, just so they can get on a plane...right? Nor would we put up with story after story of excessive use of force by policy, such as using tasers on someone who is having an epileptic siezure...no, we'd never allow such things in our society. Warrantless searches, indefinite detention without judicial processing, etc etc? Never happen here. So something like this, something so reminicint of the scene in Casablanca...won't ever be a problem for anyone other than those brown people. Since we don't care about the brown people, we can celebrate this law - it will make fewer of them, and will make the people who own the prisons even richer!
 
2012-04-26 02:22:22 PM

tommydee: Caretaker: Funny thing, I bet if you were driving around Europe/Canada/Mexico/Japan/S. Korea/etc. and was pulled over by the police you would be required to show your passport/identification to prove you are in the country legally. Yet, if that same type of policy is suggested here....fingers point, flags raise, and cries of racism become the battle cry.

Would it be racist of the police in Japan to pull a white, American over for speeding/running a red light/ or stopped for committing a crime? Try claiming racism in that case and wait for the chorus of laughs at your ignorance.

This.


Sigh. In another country, yes, I would keep my papers on me at all times. Here in the US, I am A CITIZEN, and so, unless I were driving, I would have no reason to carry 'papers'.

There are many brown CITIZENS who feel the same way I do.

I cannot understand why people think that this law does not specifically target United States Citizens of hispanic descent for harrassment and obligations not shared by the rest of the citizenry.
 
2012-04-26 02:26:17 PM

DrewCurtisJr: pciszek: In Arizona, a drivers license is not considered adequate proof of legal residency.

A PERSON IS PRESUMED TO NOT BE AN ALIEN WHO IS
UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES IF THE PERSON PROVIDES TO THE LAW
ENFORCEMENT OFFICER OR AGENCY ANY OF THE FOLLOWING:
1. A VALID ARIZONA DRIVER LICENSE.
2. A VALID ARIZONA NONOPERATING IDENTIFICATION LICENSE.
3. A VALID TRIBAL ENROLLMENT CARD OR OTHER FORM OF TRIBAL IDENTIFICATION.
4. IF THE ENTITY REQUIRES PROOF OF LEGAL PRESENCE IN THE UNITED STATES
BEFORE ISSUANCE, ANY VALID UNITED STATES FEDERAL, STATE OR LOCAL GOVERNMENT
ISSUED IDENTIFICATION. (PDF)

chuckufarlie: Are you really that dense? It has nothing to do with having a driver's license. This law allows the police to harass anybody who "LOOKS" like an illegal alien. They can pull over and stop anybody as many times as they want.

Right, just like that can now without the feds suing them. As others have stated many times already you have to have reasonable suspicion, that doesn't include being brown. And there is also an additional executive order signed by Brewer which explicitly says you can't use racial profiling.

ox45tallboy: read the thread. Driver's license is not necessarily proof of citizenship.

As much stock as I have of fark threads being the authoritative source on the law, you can read the actual law.


yes, and how many states was it again that require proof of citizenship before issuing a license?
Practice what you preach - YOU read the law.
 
2012-04-26 02:29:48 PM

ox45tallboy: yes, and how many states was it again that require proof of citizenship before issuing a license?
Practice what you preach - YOU read the law.


I did read the law, AZ residents driving will have no problem if they have a license. So that leaves out of state drivers, you really think the AZ cops are going to go out of their way to lock up out of state drivers, tourists?
 
2012-04-26 02:30:48 PM

DrewCurtisJr: pciszek: In Arizona, a drivers license is not considered adequate proof of legal residency.

A PERSON IS PRESUMED TO NOT BE AN ALIEN WHO IS
UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES IF THE PERSON PROVIDES TO THE LAW
ENFORCEMENT OFFICER OR AGENCY ANY OF THE FOLLOWING:
1. A VALID ARIZONA DRIVER LICENSE.
2. A VALID ARIZONA NONOPERATING IDENTIFICATION LICENSE.
3. A VALID TRIBAL ENROLLMENT CARD OR OTHER FORM OF TRIBAL IDENTIFICATION.
4. IF THE ENTITY REQUIRES PROOF OF LEGAL PRESENCE IN THE UNITED STATES
BEFORE ISSUANCE, ANY VALID UNITED STATES FEDERAL, STATE OR LOCAL GOVERNMENT
ISSUED IDENTIFICATION. (PDF)

chuckufarlie: Are you really that dense? It has nothing to do with having a driver's license. This law allows the police to harass anybody who "LOOKS" like an illegal alien. They can pull over and stop anybody as many times as they want.

Right, just like that can now without the feds suing them. As others have stated many times already you have to have reasonable suspicion, that doesn't include being brown. And there is also an additional executive order signed by Brewer which explicitly says you can't use racial profiling.

ox45tallboy: read the thread. Driver's license is not necessarily proof of citizenship.

As much stock as I have of fark threads being the authoritative source on the law, you can read the actual law.


thanks for answering my question - you really are that dense.
 
2012-04-26 02:31:44 PM

ox45tallboy: DrewCurtisJr: pciszek: In Arizona, a drivers license is not considered adequate proof of legal residency.

A PERSON IS PRESUMED TO NOT BE AN ALIEN WHO IS
UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES IF THE PERSON PROVIDES TO THE LAW
ENFORCEMENT OFFICER OR AGENCY ANY OF THE FOLLOWING:
1. A VALID ARIZONA DRIVER LICENSE.
2. A VALID ARIZONA NONOPERATING IDENTIFICATION LICENSE.
3. A VALID TRIBAL ENROLLMENT CARD OR OTHER FORM OF TRIBAL IDENTIFICATION.
4. IF THE ENTITY REQUIRES PROOF OF LEGAL PRESENCE IN THE UNITED STATES
BEFORE ISSUANCE, ANY VALID UNITED STATES FEDERAL, STATE OR LOCAL GOVERNMENT
ISSUED IDENTIFICATION. (PDF)

chuckufarlie: Are you really that dense? It has nothing to do with having a driver's license. This law allows the police to harass anybody who "LOOKS" like an illegal alien. They can pull over and stop anybody as many times as they want.

Right, just like that can now without the feds suing them. As others have stated many times already you have to have reasonable suspicion, that doesn't include being brown. And there is also an additional executive order signed by Brewer which explicitly says you can't use racial profiling.

ox45tallboy: read the thread. Driver's license is not necessarily proof of citizenship.

As much stock as I have of fark threads being the authoritative source on the law, you can read the actual law.

yes, and how many states was it again that require proof of citizenship before issuing a license?
Practice what you preach - YOU read the law.


I believe that the idea is that people might obtain a license illegally.
 
2012-04-26 02:32:48 PM

IamAwake: I think you're just missing the part where he doesn't care about those people, because - well - they're brown.


I think you are missing the point where I am correcting him for misrepresenting the law.
 
2012-04-26 02:33:35 PM

DrewCurtisJr: ox45tallboy: yes, and how many states was it again that require proof of citizenship before issuing a license?
Practice what you preach - YOU read the law.

I did read the law, AZ residents driving will have no problem if they have a license. So that leaves out of state drivers, you really think the AZ cops are going to go out of their way to lock up out of state drivers, tourists?


IF THEY HAVE A LICENSE How does one establish that the person has a license? Oh yea - they have to pull them over and question them. They get to hassle the people until they see that license.
 
2012-04-26 02:35:03 PM

chuckufarlie: thanks for answering my question - you really are that dense.


Feelings hurt because I proved you wrong, so resort to name calling.
 
2012-04-26 02:38:23 PM

chuckufarlie: IF THEY HAVE A LICENSE How does one establish that the person has a license? Oh yea - they have to pull them over and question them. They get to hassle the people until they see that license.


Pulled over for what?
 
2012-04-26 02:38:54 PM
Why do we keep bringing up driving.
The law doesn't just restrict police from checking up on drivers immigration status.
The law gives police the power to stop anyone, at anytime, and make them prove they are hear legally.
They can pull over a car and not only demand ID and civilization proof from the driver, but from every passenger as well. Don't happen to drive or don't have a driver's license? Better hope their system isn't down or they can check quickly, otherwise spend sometime in jail until you prove to them you are legal.

Walking down the street? Cop can stop you and demand you show him papers showing you are legal. Don't have those. Well too bad, now he'll be taking you down to the station until you can prove it.

That's the problem with the law. The police simply have to suspect that you might be here illegal and it's up to you to prove otherwise. Anyone who looks foreign will need to carry proof of citizenship anywhere they go. It doesn't matter if your family has been in the region for 200 years, if you look Hispanic, prepare to be hassled.

It's the ultimate step to a papers please society.

It shows the hypocritical feelings Republicans have about 'freedom'. As long as it doesn't affect them, restrict it.
 
2012-04-26 02:39:35 PM

tommydee: Caretaker: Funny thing, I bet if you were driving around Europe/Canada/Mexico/Japan/S. Korea/etc. and was pulled over by the police you would be required to show your passport/identification to prove you are in the country legally. Yet, if that same type of policy is suggested here....fingers point, flags raise, and cries of racism become the battle cry.

Would it be racist of the police in Japan to pull a white, American over for speeding/running a red light/ or stopped for committing a crime? Try claiming racism in that case and wait for the chorus of laughs at your ignorance.

This.


Alt accounts talking to each other; that is just ADORABLE.
 
2012-04-26 02:40:31 PM

Bob16: ICE's new website now has the ability to report illegal immigrant employers online.

They never use to have that. You use to have to call a toll free number. I reported a couple local scumbag employers myself.


I recently attended a school sponsored "race" around a city park. It was families with children ages, approximately, 3 through 12. The school, of course, had a permit.

Some jabba-the-hut looking, fat-a$$ white woman came waddling out her front door and giving everyone hate stares. She called the cops.

So, a cop car pulls up next to me and wants to know what's going on. I told him. He stated "We don't have record of a permit."

I realized that day that too many people in this world are slobbering for a chance to be informers. Too many people would like nothing more than to live in a Stalinist type society.

These laws will affect my family. I hope you get cancer.
 
2012-04-26 02:40:40 PM

DrewCurtisJr: As much stock as I have of fark threads being the authoritative source on the law, you can read the actual law.


Only an Arizona license is acceptable. Out of state licenses are not--and this is a state with enormous tourist and retiree industries, so there are going to be a lot of out-of-staters.
 
2012-04-26 02:44:43 PM

pciszek: Only an Arizona license is acceptable. Out of state licenses are not--and this is a state with enormous tourist and retiree industries, so there are going to be a lot of out-of-staters.


Yes, tourism is big in AZ, which is exactly why you can see police will start to harass people with out of state licenses, go out of their way to make excuses to detain them for being possibly illegal, and make them leave, tell their friends, and never come back.
 
2012-04-26 02:48:50 PM

DrewCurtisJr: ox45tallboy: yes, and how many states was it again that require proof of citizenship before issuing a license?
Practice what you preach - YOU read the law.

I did read the law, AZ residents driving will have no problem if they have a license. So that leaves out of state drivers, you really think the AZ cops are going to go out of their way to lock up out of state drivers, tourists?


yes, yes I do. Why in the world would you think cops would be less likely to harass someone from out of state? Do you even know any cops? If so, ask them if they are more likely to ticket someone from out of state.
 
2012-04-26 02:49:20 PM

Cataholic: In every single Zimmerman thread, we've been told that "hispanic" is not a race, and in fact the man is white. Yet in every Arizona thread, we are told that the only reason this law is in effect is because RACISM! Which is it?


Somebody should embroider that ^^^ into the Constitution.
Yell RACISM when it serves your argument; otherwise go with COLOR BLIND.
I wonder what would happen if Southerners form the National Association for the Advancement of White People [NAAWP] then CNN, Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson would go off-the-charts goofy.
 
2012-04-26 02:54:04 PM

pciszek: DrewCurtisJr: As much stock as I have of fark threads being the authoritative source on the law, you can read the actual law.

Only an Arizona license is acceptable. Out of state licenses are not--and this is a state with enormous tourist and retiree industries, so there are going to be a lot of out-of-staters.


Actually that last part (section 4) says that any valid local, state, or federal ID is acceptable.
 
2012-04-26 02:54:33 PM

Satanic_Hamster: RibbyK: FTA: Latinos who are here legally to be asked about their immigration status.
What we object to is that American citizens just walking down the street can be subject to arrest solely based on an officer's suspicion that they're not in the country legally.


About ten years ago in Las Vegas, a cop reminded me that you must always have a valid ID or be subject to arrest. Why doesn't the Supreme Court hear that argument?

/Yes, I perhaps had a few drinks, possibly, maybe...
 
2012-04-26 02:55:34 PM

DrewCurtisJr: chuckufarlie: IF THEY HAVE A LICENSE How does one establish that the person has a license? Oh yea - they have to pull them over and question them. They get to hassle the people until they see that license.

Pulled over for what?


to see if they are illegal aliens, DUH!!
 
2012-04-26 02:57:42 PM

DrewCurtisJr: I did read the law, AZ residents driving will have no problem if they have a license. So that leaves out of state drivers, you really think the AZ cops are going to go out of their way to lock up out of state drivers, tourists?


If they "look foreign", yes.
 
2012-04-26 02:58:00 PM

DrewCurtisJr: chuckufarlie: thanks for answering my question - you really are that dense.

Feelings hurt because I proved you wrong, so resort to name calling.


in your own limited intelligence, I am sure that you believe that you proved me wrong.

There is only one thing required to be a racist - massive levels of ignorance. Since you are obviously a racist, it follows that you are massively ignorant.
 
2012-04-26 02:58:08 PM

ox45tallboy: yes, yes I do. Why in the world would you think cops would be less likely to harass someone from out of state? Do you even know any cops? If so, ask them if they are more likely to ticket someone from out of state.


Yes, I do. I know AZ cops, and yes they are aware that tourism is important to the economy and certainly don't go out of their way to harass visitors.
 
2012-04-26 02:58:27 PM

RibbyK: Satanic_Hamster: RibbyK: FTA: Latinos who are here legally to be asked about their immigration status.
What we object to is that American citizens just walking down the street can be subject to arrest solely based on an officer's suspicion that they're not in the country legally.

About ten years ago in Las Vegas, a cop reminded me that you must always have a valid ID or be subject to arrest. Why doesn't the Supreme Court hear that argument?

/Yes, I perhaps had a few drinks, possibly, maybe...


You don't have to always have ID on you. It just says you have to identify yourself. In Nevada that just means you can tell the cop your name

Link
 
2012-04-26 03:01:22 PM

RibbyK: Satanic_Hamster: RibbyK: FTA: Latinos who are here legally to be asked about their immigration status.
What we object to is that American citizens just walking down the street can be subject to arrest solely based on an officer's suspicion that they're not in the country legally.

About ten years ago in Las Vegas, a cop reminded me that you must always have a valid ID or be subject to arrest. Why doesn't the Supreme Court hear that argument?

/Yes, I perhaps had a few drinks, possibly, maybe...



The SC did hear that argument and threw those laws out. Citizens do not need to have any sort of ID on them. They are simply required to give their name if arrested, they are not even required to do so if a police officer asks.
 
2012-04-26 03:03:38 PM

RibbyK: About ten years ago in Las Vegas, a cop reminded me that you must always have a valid ID or be subject to arrest. Why doesn't the Supreme Court hear that argument?


I wish they WOULD hear that argument. Citizens are not required to carry "papers" in the US, not yet. You must carry a license when driving as proof that some state or other government entity thinks you can operate a vehicle safely. There is no license required for existing.
 
2012-04-26 03:07:10 PM

DrewCurtisJr: Pulled over for what?


Under this law, the police can pull over anyone they suspect is in the country illegally (i.e., "looks foreign"). They don't have to be doing anything wrong.
 
2012-04-26 03:07:55 PM

chuckufarlie: to see if they are illegal aliens, DUH!!


You can't just pull people over for no reason.
 
2012-04-26 03:09:45 PM

pciszek: Under this law, the police can pull over anyone they suspect is in the country illegally (i.e., "looks foreign"). They don't have to be doing anything wrong.


When I made my claim about the licenses I referenced the actual text of the law. Would you do me a favor and reference the actual text of the law that you believe supports your claim?
 
2012-04-26 03:10:20 PM
The papers please aspect of the law is what is farked up. IMO they should try to keep illegals from crossing the border the best they can and fine individuals and take away charters of companies who hire illegals. But other than that I think illegals should get pretty much all the protections of being a citizen.
 
2012-04-26 03:10:37 PM

Bunnyhat: RibbyK: Satanic_Hamster: RibbyK: FTA: Latinos who are here legally to be asked about their immigration status.
What we object to is that American citizens just walking down the street can be subject to arrest solely based on an officer's suspicion that they're not in the country legally.
About ten years ago in Las Vegas, a cop reminded me that you must always have a valid ID or be subject to arrest. Why doesn't the Supreme Court hear that argument?
/Yes, I perhaps had a few drinks, possibly, maybe...
The SC did hear that argument and threw those laws out. Citizens do not need to have any sort of ID on them. They are simply required to give their name if arrested, they are not even required to do so if a police officer asks.


Good point...I MAY have mumbled my name or perhaps fark you. I think booze was involved, it's all still a blur.
 
2012-04-26 03:12:05 PM

DrewCurtisJr: chuckufarlie: to see if they are illegal aliens, DUH!!

You can't just pull people over for no reason.


but there is a reason - suspicion that the person is an illegal alien.
 
2012-04-26 03:12:23 PM

ox45tallboy: Joe Blowme: ox45tallboy: Thunderpipes: My driver's license shows my immigration status.

What state do you live in? Mine doesn't.

Yes it does. What did you have to show the DMV to get said drivers license?

Here you go.

Also, here's a REALLY current (as in today) article discussing which states have DL's or ID's that can be used as proof of citizenship under the EDL program.

And for the record, my first license was in TN, where I showed my Social Security card and HS diploma (graduated early, otherwise would have had to show proof of attendance from my school). No birth certificate. (NOTE; this changed a few years ago in TN, now you have to show proof of citizenship).


This is true. I had to show my "U.S. citizen born Abroad" Documents, as I am a navy brat. That caused a stir as they had not dealt with that before. That has continued to haunt me through my work history as well. They ask for your birth certificate to check you out for a security clearance and you hand them that document, they usually stare at it in confusion for a minute then ask "where's the certificate number?" In an uncertain voice. I then hand over my copies of BOTH of my birth certificates (U.S. and Canadian) and they get REALLY confused.

/had dual citizenship until I was 18. Had to pick a country.
 
2012-04-26 03:13:45 PM

DrewCurtisJr: chuckufarlie: to see if they are illegal aliens, DUH!!

You can't just pull people over for no reason.


To be fair, police often state if they follow you long enough in a car they can pull you over for any number of reasons (not staying in lane, speeding, tailgating, rolling stop, etc..)
 
2012-04-26 03:17:23 PM

DrewCurtisJr: ox45tallboy: yes, yes I do. Why in the world would you think cops would be less likely to harass someone from out of state? Do you even know any cops? If so, ask them if they are more likely to ticket someone from out of state.

Yes, I do. I know AZ cops, and yes they are aware that tourism is important to the economy and certainly don't go out of their way to harass visitors.


unless they're brown.

If cops aren't going to be harassing brown people, then why do they need the explicit right to do so codified into law?
 
2012-04-26 03:17:37 PM

pciszek: DrewCurtisJr: Pulled over for what?

Under this law, the police can pull over anyone they suspect is in the country illegally (i.e., "looks foreign"). They don't have to be doing anything wrong.


Jesus H Christ, liberals really need to take their heads out of their asses.

Only after a valid stop for other reasons, dick. Just like it works for any other American citizen, dumbass.
 
2012-04-26 03:19:09 PM

pciszek: DrewCurtisJr: Pulled over for what?

Under this law, the police can pull over anyone they suspect is in the country illegally (i.e., "looks foreign"). They don't have to be doing anything wrong.


People shouldn't be flaunting their foreignness in broad daylight.
 
2012-04-26 03:19:12 PM

armageddonbound: The problem with this law has nothing to do with illegal immigration. It has to do with becoming a police state. They can pull over anyone for made up reasons and throw them in jail for not having immigration papers, no matter if they are white and are 6th generation citizens.


They can do that now.
 
2012-04-26 03:19:20 PM

chuckufarlie: but there is a reason - suspicion that the person is an illegal alien.


And this reasonable suspicion would come from? And keep in mind that there is an executive order and federal laws that prevent them from doing so just based on a person's ethnicity.

redmid17: To be fair, police often state if they follow you long enough in a car they can pull you over for any number of reasons (not staying in lane, speeding, tailgating, rolling stop, etc..)


They can already do that, they don't need SB 1070. If they aren't doing it already why would they change? Do you think they need this law to hand over someone to ICE?
 
2012-04-26 03:23:13 PM

RibbyK: Cataholic: In every single Zimmerman thread, we've been told that "hispanic" is not a race, and in fact the man is white. Yet in every Arizona thread, we are told that the only reason this law is in effect is because RACISM! Which is it?

Somebody should embroider that ^^^ into the Constitution.
Yell RACISM when it serves your argument; otherwise go with COLOR BLIND.
I wonder what would happen if Southerners form the National Association for the Advancement of White People [NAAWP] then CNN, Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson would go off-the-charts goofy.


They have and they did. It is considered (almost certainly accurately) a hate group.
 
2012-04-26 03:23:29 PM

ox45tallboy: If cops aren't going to be harassing brown people, then why do they need the explicit right to do so codified into law?


They can already do this. 2 things, it forces sanctuary cities who order police to not follow immigration laws even in cases where they know a person is illegal, also part of the law gives them the power to charge illegal immigrants who ICE refuses to take into custody under the no ID law (which mirrors the federal law)
 
2012-04-26 03:24:38 PM

ox45tallboy: DrewCurtisJr: ox45tallboy: yes, yes I do. Why in the world would you think cops would be less likely to harass someone from out of state? Do you even know any cops? If so, ask them if they are more likely to ticket someone from out of state.

Yes, I do. I know AZ cops, and yes they are aware that tourism is important to the economy and certainly don't go out of their way to harass visitors.

unless they're brown.

If cops aren't going to be harassing brown people, then why do they need the explicit right to do so codified into law?


Where is this law you keep refering to that lets cops arrest people for being "brown"?
 
2012-04-26 03:25:16 PM

pciszek: DrewCurtisJr: Wow, written a whole 1 week after the law took effect. Clearly established the long term consequences.


Well, apparently crops were already rotting in the fields at that point: Link
If these are the short-term consequences, independent farmers won't be around to find out what the long-term consequences are.
The corporate farms seem to be doing OK, though--maybe that was the real intent of the law all along.


They'll be just fine. The initial hubub turned out to be a lot of knee jerk reaction. The farmers (and although I work in the capitol I live in a rural farming community) planted their fields this spring just like every year.
 
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