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(Columbia Daily Tribune)   Rep. Todd Akin (R-eally dumb): "Federal student loans are the stage three cancer of socialism"   (columbiatribune.com) divider line 393
    More: Asinine, Todd Akins, federal student loans, GOP, student loans, personal care products, Claire McCaskill, cancers  
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3016 clicks; posted to Politics » on 25 Apr 2012 at 7:22 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-26 02:54:14 AM

Gyrfalcon: I had Pell Grants and nominal student loans at UCLA (under 10K) which were all for tuition; everything else I worked for: rent, food, books, spending $$. Which I did handily working part-time at a local record store. There were six of us in low-rent off-campus housing, and I didn't have a car for a year or so, but we managed.


Also keep in mind that housing in most major cities has also skyrocketed in the last forty years, with areas around large colleges and universities worst hit.

My parents live in a neighborhood of $500K Victorian houses near two major unis (U Penn and Drexel). The neighbors have been shocked recently to find speculators buying houses to rent to college kids.
 
2012-04-26 03:14:01 AM

winterwhile: my entire 4 years of college


LOL
 
2012-04-26 03:24:47 AM

Hetfield: winterwhile: my entire 4 years of college

LOL


Barber college counts.
 
2012-04-26 06:24:58 AM

tudorgurl: JRoo: College should be free for every American citizen.


Where's the profit in that?
 
2012-04-26 06:54:42 AM

skygod: winterwhile is frog balls retarded.


When you take into account how delicate and risky the reproductive cycle of the frog is, and the fact that a successful male may fertilize eggs that become several MILLION of his offspring over his brief life, frog balls are actually considerably smarter than Winterwhile.
 
2012-04-26 06:56:17 AM

Lenny_da_Hog: Hetfield: winterwhile: my entire 4 years of college

LOL

Barber college counts.


More like Clown College...
 
2012-04-26 06:58:32 AM
Totally off-topic, but this is how awesome Fark is. It said there were 303 posts in this thread. Upon opening it, I only get 104. That's almost 200 posts from threadshiatters and other undesirables completely vanquished. Nice.
 
2012-04-26 07:46:25 AM
So lemme see if I got this straight.

The GOP have already managed to rile up the Democratic female base with their war on women/slut-shaming stuff.

The Black community are frowning on their shenanigans big time in the wake of all that teatard racism and recent Martin/Zimmerman stuff.

Muslims are still pissed at the GOP by all that anti-Muslim rhetoric and attempt to prevent Mosque construction.

Gay folks are righteously pissed off by all the second class citizen amendment talk and general approval of gay bashing rhetoric and policies.

Immigrants are pissed by all the anti-immigrant talk.

And now they are pissing off students here?

Lawls!

They really, really want to lose here, don't they?

Only possible explanation at this point.
 
2012-04-26 07:52:11 AM

quatchi: So lemme see if I got this straight.

The GOP have already managed to rile up the Democratic female base with their war on women/slut-shaming stuff.

The Black community are frowning on their shenanigans big time in the wake of all that teatard racism and recent Martin/Zimmerman stuff.

Muslims are still pissed at the GOP by all that anti-Muslim rhetoric and attempt to prevent Mosque construction.

Gay folks are righteously pissed off by all the second class citizen amendment talk and general approval of gay bashing rhetoric and policies.

Immigrants are pissed by all the anti-immigrant talk.

And now they are pissing off students here?

Lawls!

They really, really want to lose here, don't they?

Only possible explanation at this point.


Either that, or they think they can prevent all of the above from voting somehow.
 
2012-04-26 08:05:54 AM

birdboy2000: Most of Germany lets kids go to school for free, yet the US can't even manage to charge low interest rates for loans which can't be discharged through bankruptcy. The way higher education in the US is handled is criminal.


No son, it's corporate. Criminals go to jail.
 
2012-04-26 08:17:51 AM
Weird.


I always thought overtime pay and holiday pay were the "stage three cancer" of socialism?


....or maybe it was mandatory work place safety regulations? I forget.
 
2012-04-26 08:24:28 AM

Alphax: quatchi: So lemme see if I got this straight.

The GOP have already managed to rile up the Democratic female base with their war on women/slut-shaming stuff.

The Black community are frowning on their shenanigans big time in the wake of all that teatard racism and recent Martin/Zimmerman stuff.

Muslims are still pissed at the GOP by all that anti-Muslim rhetoric and attempt to prevent Mosque construction.

Gay folks are righteously pissed off by all the second class citizen amendment talk and general approval of gay bashing rhetoric and policies.

Immigrants are pissed by all the anti-immigrant talk.

And now they are pissing off students here?

Lawls!

They really, really want to lose here, don't they?

Only possible explanation at this point.

Either that, or they think they can prevent all of the above from voting somehow.


Or they know they can rig the voting process in key areas, and that SCOTUS can be counted on to appoint their puppet if neccessary.
 
2012-04-26 08:26:42 AM
For starters,

yes, the German model of higher education sounds wonderful, until a State education board determines that your kid isn't smart enough to be a doctor and should probably be a laborer, writer or paper pusher instead. They test kids at young ages and then push them into specialized schools based on their propensities.

We also need to ditch this idea that a traditional 4 year university style education is the only path to prosperity in this country. Looking at what college administrators get paid, it is no wonder that the democrats are humping his agenda of getting everyone into college - no matter the cost. We have an entire sector of our economy (technical) begging for engineers, CNC machinists and advanced welders which are all disciplines which a student can gain a basic background in 18 months to 3 years without having to learn about primitive cultures, lesbian poetry or French revolutionary ideology.

If you want college to broaden your horizons and to give you an advanced perspective outlook on life, to make you a better world citizen then fine - Pay for it your damn self.

For the rest of us who have to work, allow the market to set demand for labor, allow schools to provide the education necessary to prepare students for whatever fields are in demand and allow students to pick and choose schools based on the quality of the program or the costs associated.

This myth that we need to crank out as many people as possible with 4 year degrees is nonsense. The 4 year degree is worthless in today's economy unless the student has spend significant amounts of time interning or in lab settings for whatever sector of the economy is in demand.
 
2012-04-26 08:26:56 AM

Alphax: quatchi: So lemme see if I got this straight.

The GOP have already managed to rile up the Democratic female base with their war on women/slut-shaming stuff.

The Black community are frowning on their shenanigans big time in the wake of all that teatard racism and recent Martin/Zimmerman stuff.

Muslims are still pissed at the GOP by all that anti-Muslim rhetoric and attempt to prevent Mosque construction.

Gay folks are righteously pissed off by all the second class citizen amendment talk and general approval of gay bashing rhetoric and policies.

Immigrants are pissed by all the anti-immigrant talk.

And now they are pissing off students here?

Lawls!

They really, really want to lose here, don't they?

Only possible explanation at this point.

Either that, or they think they can prevent all of the above from voting somehow.


None of that matters.

I work with many quite capable and seemingly intelligent engineers, whose thoughts and ideas I admire and respect... until the subject of politics arises. At that point, they become automatons, capable only of repeating sound bites from Beck, Limbaugh, et al. When pressed for details, they are incapable of answering. All they know is they'll never support that Socialist Kenyan Muslim usurper in the White House. Never. And, they'll proudly vote against their own interests (at least one, against their own special-needs child's interests).

It's really quite astounding.
 
2012-04-26 08:39:54 AM

o5iiawah: If you want college to broaden your horizons and to give you an advanced perspective outlook on life, to make you a better world citizen then fine - Pay for it your damn self.


That would work just fine if it weren't for the fact that mostly mommy and daddy pay for it, which is an awesome way to make sure that most of the wealth remains concentrated in just a few hands.
 
2012-04-26 08:44:28 AM
Wait... how does promoting education somehow become the bedrock principle of a ownership-less meritocracy?
 
2012-04-26 08:45:16 AM

Grand_Moff_Joseph: HeartBurnKid: Grand_Moff_Joseph: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: GAT_00: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: ManateeGag: Grand_Moff_Joseph: And his competition doesn't know what the Violence Against Women Act is because "I haven't been elected yet".

MORONS.

there should be a rudimentary test of the laws on the land. if you cannot pass the test, you cannot run for a federal government office.

First question: Do you want to run for federal office?

(Anyone who answers "yes" automatically fails.)

See, this is incredibly stupid. Why exactly do you want apathetic people in charge of your government? Do you really want the President to get a call about whatever crisis and go 'fark it, I'm tired of this job?' I mean, if you want that, please vote for Sarah Palin.

People who want to be in power should, under no circumstances, be allowed to be in power.

To jump off of that point, I propose we convert the House into a lottery system.

-Citizens are eligible for the lottery after reaching age 25, or graduating from a college/university/trade school; whichever comes first
-Every two years, a person is chosen by lottery, just like jury duty. Once picked, a person is barred from being picked again for at least 4 years.
-That person represents their district in the House for a standard 2 year term. At the end of the term, the lottery is held again.
-While serving, the chosen person is compensated at 110% of their last year's individual salary, up to $75K. That person will also be reimbursed (at std. rates) for trips home, up to a maximum of 4 per year.
-Meanwhile, the Senate will remain an elected body, but with terms reduced to 4 years from 6

I like this idea. Only thing I'd add is that, upon completion of a house term, the representative's former employer is required to offer back his old position or an equivalent one, with at least the same pay adjusted for inflation.

Agreed 100%. I would also add these items too:

-The person chosen may not accept any gift larger than $10 from an ...


And then they'd just vote the way their professional "advisers" tell them?

I think a better idea is some variant on the Roman cursus honorum system. Before you're eligible to run for office, you have to spend at least two years after high school either in a trade/technical/vocational school or in college. Then you need to do two years or more of national service (military, peace corps, etc.)

You then need to have held a low-paying job (teacher/LEO/other position with community contact) in an inner city for at least a year, and in a impoverished rural area for at least a year. Then you have to hold a local office (councilman, mayor, etc.) for at least one full term before you're eligible to run for higher office.

The first set of requirements can be done at any time, so you can get it out of the way immediately after high school if you like. Then you can go and do your private sector job and make all the money you want.

The last set of requirements (inner city and rural jobs, and local office) must be done within ten years of your seeking election to office for the first time, so if you're off in the private sector making a ton of money, you need to quit your job and go fill your requirements and get back in touch with the people you're supposed to represent.

You'll still only get people who want to be in power running for office, but at least they've been exposed to a wide variety of experiences, and will hopefully have some perspective.
 
2012-04-26 08:52:26 AM

Alphax: Either that, or they think they can prevent all of the above from voting somehow.


Between caging schemes, voter ID laws and traditional misinformation campaigns they will, indeed, prevent a lot of the above from voting.

Not enough to win though.
 
2012-04-26 08:54:24 AM

The_Gallant_Gallstone: trotsky: Yep, just like many of the Southern states that give free tuition for decent H.S. grades! Yes! Keep repeating the stupidest shiat ever to sound a like a farking moron! Hey everybody! Look! A farking Teatard sucker on fark!!!!

[i232.photobucket.com image 259x194]


Sorry, it's the morning and I was a little drunk.
 
2012-04-26 08:54:55 AM
The University I work for just took a 49 million dollar budget cut this year. The first place it came out was reducing non-tenured faculty, the boots on the ground teaching staff that teach 1000 and 2000 level courses. All they had to do was not renew their contract. Not severance packages, no unemployment. Just out the door. Now we have tenured faculty who should be in lab teaching general chemistry classes of 250 students each.

Then they started cutting facilities staff, so that campus is not as well maintained as it was.

Then not renewing lower administrative staff when position became vacant, so the students are not getting as good service.

Did anyone dare suggest that the money come out of athletics?

Hell no! Blasphemy!

That's "the front porch" that supposedly draws big donors in.

Never mind if it is dirt floor shack behind it that the tuition for has gone up 60% in the last 6 years, that kids are beggaring themselves to get a degree from an average state university.

Never mind that since we eliminated manufacturing as our economic base we FORCE kids to go to college to get jobs a high school graduate could do.

And now they want to RAISE interest rates on federal student loans? (Never mind to poor schmucks that made the mistake of getting student loans from a private institutions like Salie Mae that are little better than loan sharks, but are still protected by the laws that forbids student loan debt from being discharged under bankruptcy.)

This is a completely predatory system designed to take advantage of our young people and give them little in return.
 
2012-04-26 08:59:37 AM
what gets me is the same people fighting this are all for the banks getting money from the treasury at zero percent.
they don't want an educated populace.
they're harder to sell their snake oil to.
they're more inclined to believe in science instead of myth.
they're more inclined to believe that population control is better than rampant breeding.
they're more inclined to believe that the world isn't black and white but actually is shades of gray.
 
2012-04-26 09:01:42 AM
Thanks to recent tuition hikes and more fees tacked on, the per semester cost of my local no name community college has gone up to around 15k if you live on campus. That's for in-state tuition. This is the problem. The students themselves have begun to solve this problem. Recent university publications state that more than 70% of students drop out rather than pay that much for an average education at a no name low rung college that no one has or ever will hear about.

So, of course, the university is going to raise tuition again to make up for the losses...er, improve the quality of education for the remaining students. I do notice that they're doing nothing to fix their retention rates. The really sad thing is that when most of these kids drop out, they're already $30k or more in the hole for loans that never provide any benefit.
 
2012-04-26 09:07:16 AM

gadian: Thanks to recent tuition hikes and more fees tacked on, the per semester cost of my local no name community college has gone up to around 15k if you live on campus. That's for in-state tuition. This is the problem. The students themselves have begun to solve this problem. Recent university publications state that more than 70% of students drop out rather than pay that much for an average education at a no name low rung college that no one has or ever will hear about.


When I graduated from high school in 1989, I had a book with all the colleges in it, and I looked for the highest rate in there. Washington University-St. Louis, which is local to me, was the highest I could find in the book at $12k per semester.
 
2012-04-26 09:08:24 AM

Cinaed: Wait... how does promoting education somehow become the bedrock principle of a ownership-less meritocracy?


It's harder to own educated people. Duh!
 
2012-04-26 09:21:34 AM

Crabs_Can_Polevault: Cinaed: Wait... how does promoting education somehow become the bedrock principle of a ownership-less meritocracy?

It's harder to own educated people. Duh!


Not if you condition the people through their education.
You can even fool the people into letting them think they are capable of thinking for themselves.

Look at how many people think throwing more money at the probelm will solve the problem of tuition increases based on an unlimited money supply via student loans.
 
2012-04-26 09:50:15 AM

Giltric: Not if you condition the people through their education.
You can even fool the people into letting them think they are capable of thinking for themselves.


This, right here, is why we can't have nice things.
 
2012-04-26 09:50:26 AM

WhyteRaven74: Go to Harvard's financial aid page and there's nothing of the sort.


Well, except for the front page of the financial aid office which says:

All of our financial aid is awarded on the basis of demonstrated financial need - there are no academic, athletic or merit-based awards, and we meet the demonstrated need of every student, including international students, for all four years. We invite you to explore our web site for a detailed description of all aspects of our aid program, including our Harvard Financial Aid Initiative for low and moderate income students, under which families with incomes currently below $60,000 are not expected to contribute to college costs. Beginning in the fall of 2012, financial aid will be further expanded for low income students, when this income level will be increased to $65,000. We do not consider home equity or retirement accounts as resources in our determination of a family contribution, and aid packages do not include any loans.

But carry on with your narrative. I mean, admitting that Harvard actually is pretty decent about aid does not change the point of the cost of education or the problems with massive student loan debt, but it would mean admitting you had one point wrong, I guess.
 
2012-04-26 09:56:31 AM
He's half right. Student loans are a cancer. A cancer of capitalism running amok one of the things in our country that ought to be socialized.

College should be free like so many other industrialized nations.

America is a third world nation... we just don't want to admit it.
 
2012-04-26 10:03:48 AM

Giltric: Crabs_Can_Polevault: Cinaed: Wait... how does promoting education somehow become the bedrock principle of a ownership-less meritocracy?

It's harder to own educated people. Duh!

Not if you condition the people through their education.


True. Just look at Texas. ""In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth, and when I looked at the evidence for evolution, I found it unconvincing so I don't think he used evolution to do it, that's my big deal." - Don McLeroy, former chair of the Texas Board of Education, and dentist.
 
2012-04-26 10:07:36 AM
I do love that the GOP is evidently going to run with the socialism theme again this time around. It really resonated last time.
 
2012-04-26 10:31:28 AM

Giltric: Crabs_Can_Polevault: It's harder to own educated people. Duh!

Not if you condition the people through their education.
You can even fool the people into letting them think they are capable of thinking for themselves.


Note: I said "educated," not "brainwashed." There is a significant difference, one which some folks are tempted to either overlook or overstep.

Also: "fool the people into letting them think..."?
 
2012-04-26 10:33:02 AM
I heard that President Obama, speaking before a large crowd of college students, mentioned the Todd Akin quote to them. His comment was along the lines of 'what do you even say to that? What does it mean?'
 
2012-04-26 10:38:31 AM

LazarusLong42: He's half right. Student loans are a cancer. A cancer of capitalism running amok one of the things in our country that ought to be socialized.

College should be free like so many other industrialized nations.


"Affordable" would be sufficient for now. Baby steps...
 
2012-04-26 11:03:43 AM

someonelse: Giltric: Crabs_Can_Polevault: Cinaed: Wait... how does promoting education somehow become the bedrock principle of a ownership-less meritocracy?

It's harder to own educated people. Duh!

Not if you condition the people through their education.

True. Just look at Texas. ""In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth, and when I looked at the evidence for evolution, I found it unconvincing so I don't think he used evolution to do it, that's my big deal." - Don McLeroy, former chair of the Texas Board of Education, and dentist.


As a Texan as well as a former member of my local school board, I would like to make it known that that man does not represent us.
 
2012-04-26 11:13:07 AM

winterwhile: The_Gallant_Gallstone: winterwhile: so how much money are you willing to give to some college students?

I need... about three fiddy!

About what it costs to occupy Afghanistan for 10 years should do it.

thats an failed Obama war, try again.

wars end

entitlements never end


Best part?

FOREVER
 
2012-04-26 11:17:23 AM

Sabyen91: theknuckler_33: Bhasayate: It'd be better to subsidize those loans and keep people in the workforce than bankrupt everyone in the up and coming generations.

Wait, so not being able to pay back student loans and perhaps declaring bankruptcy removes you from the workforce?

wtfamireading.jpg

Declaring bankruptcy doesn't necessarily discharge student loans.

/Just a minor point in case you thought they did.


In fact, declaring bankruptcy virtually never discharges student loans. It is extraordinarily difficult to get student loans included in bankruptcy proceedings
 
2012-04-26 11:20:03 AM

Spaced Lion: someonelse: Giltric: Crabs_Can_Polevault: Cinaed: Wait... how does promoting education somehow become the bedrock principle of a ownership-less meritocracy?

It's harder to own educated people. Duh!

Not if you condition the people through their education.

True. Just look at Texas. ""In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth, and when I looked at the evidence for evolution, I found it unconvincing so I don't think he used evolution to do it, that's my big deal." - Don McLeroy, former chair of the Texas Board of Education, and dentist.

As a Texan as well as a former member of my local school board, I would like to make it known that that man does not represent us.


And yet, somehow he gets to set education policy for the entire state.
 
2012-04-26 11:21:36 AM

eurotrader: More of a rant than a post but the stupid was just too strong in some of the statements

Really, unemployment among people in their 20s is at records high maybe instead of complaining he could do something to help bring down the cost of higher education. An argument can be made that giving every person that attends a college a transferable credit to be applied to the cost of education and by controlling the amount, the cost of college would not be rising well above inflation. For everyone that already has a student a one time reduction in the student l ...


angrywhitedude.com
 
2012-04-26 12:13:54 PM
The only thing more sad then the GOP field for this Senate seat in Missouri is the fact each one of them is polling well against the sitting Democrat.
 
2012-04-26 12:22:31 PM

LazarusLong42: College should be free like so many other industrialized nations.


Let me guess, you want the 1% to pay for this too, right? Is that what your Anthropology professor told you?

"College" is worthless if it doesn't prepare individuals for the workforce. There's no reason for the public to subsidize an individual who wants to party for 5 years and learn nonsense
 
2012-04-26 12:43:24 PM

o5iiawah: "College" is worthless if it doesn't prepare individuals for the workforce. There's no reason for the public to subsidize an individual who wants to party for 5 years and learn nonsense


..and yet, they need that piece of parchment to get a job that pays a wage they can actually live on.

When they eliminated manufacturing as our economic base, this is the world they created. Kids who could have gone to trade school to get a decent paying job in manufacturing now have to go to college to get a clerical job that a high school graduate could do.

And between the tuition hikes and student loans, higher educaiton has become a multi-billion dollar industry preying on these trapped kids.
 
2012-04-26 12:54:32 PM

KiplingKat872: o5iiawah: "College" is worthless if it doesn't prepare individuals for the workforce. There's no reason for the public to subsidize an individual who wants to party for 5 years and learn nonsense

..and yet, they need that piece of parchment to get a job that pays a wage they can actually live on.

When they eliminated manufacturing as our economic base, this is the world they created. Kids who could have gone to trade school to get a decent paying job in manufacturing now have to go to college to get a clerical job that a high school graduate could do.

And between the tuition hikes and student loans, higher educaiton has become a multi-billion dollar industry preying on these trapped kids.


You can still go to a trade school and make a real good living ......I'd bet alot of people don't want to get their hands dirty.
 
2012-04-26 01:10:31 PM

Giltric: KiplingKat872: o5iiawah: "College" is worthless if it doesn't prepare individuals for the workforce. There's no reason for the public to subsidize an individual who wants to party for 5 years and learn nonsense

..and yet, they need that piece of parchment to get a job that pays a wage they can actually live on.

When they eliminated manufacturing as our economic base, this is the world they created. Kids who could have gone to trade school to get a decent paying job in manufacturing now have to go to college to get a clerical job that a high school graduate could do.

And between the tuition hikes and student loans, higher educaiton has become a multi-billion dollar industry preying on these trapped kids.

You can still go to a trade school and make a real good living ......I'd bet alot of people don't want to get their hands dirty.


...Thanks for displaying your ignorance.

There are very few two year trade schools left in the U.S.. If you want to become a full blown engineer, sure, but true vocational school? To learn to become a machinist or a draftman, skill sets that used ot be introduced in high school? Other than Devry (for computers) there are very few left in the U.S. since there is little demand because there is little manufacturing in the U.S. anymore.

This elitist assumption that people "just don't want to get their hand dirty" is the kind of B.S. rationalization Nike used when they moved their factories overseas. "Americans just don't want to make shoes." No, Nike just didn't want to pay their workers a living wage and health insurance. Americans would be happy to make shoes. They would be happy as machinists, automobile makers, draftsmen, repair men, etc. There just aren't enough of those jobs in the U.S. to support the lower middle class and poor anymore.

This is the curse of the "consumer economy." There aren't enough jobs that pay enough for people to actually live on. Yeah, someone who does not go to college can work at McDonalds and Walmart, but they can't live on that wage.
 
2012-04-26 01:25:16 PM

winterwhile: Mrtraveler01: winterwhile: Both caused by the same folks?

The Banks that took full advantage of deregulation and got too carried away with it?

they did? Did you ask Barny Frank, or Chris Dodd? Who wrote all the rules.


So if the laws against murdering people were changed tomorrow at noon, I should load my guns and go on a shootin' expedition at 12:01?

Hay stupid, doing stupid things just because they aren't against the law is still stupid.
Banks did what they did because they were greedy motherf*ckers, and not because of any law. The law doesn't make you do sh*t, and neither did Frank or Dodd.
 
2012-04-26 01:25:23 PM

Spaced Lion: tudorgurl: JRoo: College should be free for every American citizen.

Where's the profit in that?


My new rule: we don't have to monetize every aspect of human existence.
 
2012-04-26 02:09:54 PM

KiplingKat872: there are very few left in the U.S. since there is little demand because there is little manufacturing in the U.S. anymore.


Skilled manufacturing is still in unbelievably high demand. Go drive through your local industrial park and chances are you'll see a few signs looking for skilled welders, CNC machinists, woodworkers - the list goes on. The field in which I work is booming yet most of our new hires come from southeast Asia, India and even the caribbean.

KiplingKat872: And between the tuition hikes and student loans, higher educaiton has become a multi-billion dollar industry preying on these trapped kids.


I've give you a big fat gold star if you can spot the correlation. Why is it that higher education costs have risen 2-4x the rate of inflation in the past 30 years? Technology has made it such that schools dont have to hire an army of counselors to help students schedule and smart schools should be able to offer tremendous value by partnering with other schools to video conference and idea share. The quality of education should be getting better too yet we're falling behind the rest of the world in the hard sciences.

Our university system should be getting better and cheaper and it is getting more expensive and worse.

Why is it that items like cell phones, flat screen TVs and medical procedures, cosmetic and Lasik have increased in quality, become more available to more people and have come down in price yet education, healthcare and housing all have been recently skyrocketing in price?

If you have Easton U and Weston U each offering 50 spots to incoming freshmen and 75 students are qualified, the school must compete for their business either by offering value or lowering their price.

When the government subsidizes the cost of education and now 200 students qualify to attend Easton and Weston U, the schools do not have to compete. They can hire administrators, raise prices and dont have to offer much value since they are pretty much guaranteed to fill their seats. My parents could go to college with a part time job during the year and a full time job in the summer. In the interest of the 5% of kids who cant afford to college, government has provided loans which raised the costs of education for everyone. Everyone gets to go to college and everyone can "afford" it since the government can garnish their wages for the rest of their life.

The ultimate travesty is the 75 students who might have otherwise afforded to go to college and now have to compete with the other 125 who have piles of federal money and have driven up the price
 
2012-04-26 02:21:28 PM

o5iiawah: Skilled manufacturing is still in unbelievably high demand. Go drive through your local industrial park and chances are you'll see a few signs looking for skilled welders, CNC machinists, woodworkers - the list goes on. The field in which I work is booming yet most of our new hires come from southeast Asia, India and even the caribbean.


Industrial parks rarely houses a large manufacturing factory anymore. I used to live near several in southern CA and most of them were small shops employing maybe two or three dozen at the most. Not large manufacturing. Large plant have their own properties.

It's NOT enough. There are 311 million people in the U.S. and not enough of these jobs to support them.
 
2012-04-26 02:30:51 PM

o5iiawah: The ultimate travesty is the 75 students who might have otherwise afforded to go to college and now have to compete with the other 125 who have piles of federal money and have driven up the price


And what colour is the sky in your world?

I work for a state university. Let me tell you how it really works:

The GOP cuts education funding, which drives up tuition costs because the school has to provide the same service to more students with less federal and state funding.

I know that is really hard to understand.

If online learning were as valid as real classroom and lab time, then the University of Phoenix graduates would be getting all the jobs in the work place. They don't because it's a B.S. education. There is no replacement for interaction in a class room with a instructor or other students and certainly no replacement for labs.

Education is the right of members of a civilized society. It's is not supposed to be a "for profit" business. Trying to turn it it into one has helped drive our educational standards down in the western world.
 
2012-04-26 02:36:25 PM
And before someone jumps in with "overpaid public sector" comments, I have not seen a raise in my 26K a year salary since I was employed here three years ago and have been told not ot expect one until 2014. No one here has seen raises in a couple years, including the fixed term faculty who make 45 K a year.

So it's not the teachers that are driving up the cost of tuition.
 
2012-04-26 02:47:18 PM
I work for a department of chemistry, and just to run eight general chemistry labs over the summer with 192 seats, will cost nearly $10,000 dollars in lab supplies. Just the supplies.

We can't put that online.

As for counselors, once a student declares a major, their counselor is a member of the teaching faculty for that department who does not get an additional stipend. We have a advising office for freshmen and oh my Gawd are they needed. Kids come to college these days completely reliant on being hand held through everything. "Read the course catalog with school policies? What are you kidding me? This huge thing? MOOOOM!"

And yes, we have created a system where these kids HAVE to go to college to get a job at a living wage.
 
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