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(Daily Kos)   Paul Ryan: My budget is based on Catholic values. Bishops: No, it's based on Ayn Rand - now go read this Catholic Social Doctrine and try again   (dailykos.com) divider line 319
    More: Amusing, Paul Ryan, Catholic Social, Ayn Rand, Catholics, Catholic Faith, rich get richer, suede, Health Care, International  
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6815 clicks; posted to Politics » on 25 Apr 2012 at 8:32 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-25 08:48:38 PM
That's just weird.

I would hope that any budget would be based on sound financial practices.
 
2012-04-25 08:50:10 PM

coco ebert: This is the side of the Catholic Church that I admire. Awesome slapdown.


I like how they are consistent in their stance on human life by being against the death penalty and against birth control and abortion. It pisses off both the right and left and they don't care.
 
2012-04-25 08:51:46 PM
Objectivism is autism expressed as a personal philosophy.
Libertarianism is autism expressed as a political philosophy.
 
2012-04-25 08:52:59 PM
The best representative the catholic church has is Stephen Colbert
 
2012-04-25 08:53:54 PM

Serious Black: Lando Lincoln: Why would you base a budget on a religious teaching?

He's not basing it on a religious teaching. He's basing it on a bastardized and corrupt reading of a religious teaching. There's a big difference between those two.


Given Randists' fanatical zeal for their Most Unholy Lady of Narcissistic Bloviation, I'd say it's arguable he IS basing his budget on a religious teaching. But not Christianity.
 
2012-04-25 08:54:11 PM

Lionel Mandrake: Sometimes the Catholic Church is awesome.
Paul Ryan is always a dick/tool


Truer words have never been spoken.
 
2012-04-25 08:54:12 PM

Quasar: Elandriel: Is this the thread where Catholicism is OK now? I can't keep up with which Catholics are evil bastards hell-bent on destroying the world and remaking it in their image, which ones are rape raping, which ones are imposing theocratic rule on America, and which ones are nice kind loving people who actually think with their farking brains and not only with what is written in a two thousand year old book.

You make it sound like I have to choose between disliking Paul Ryan and disliking the Catholic Church.


so you're saying...

both sides are bad?
 
2012-04-25 08:56:24 PM

Erebus1954: coco ebert: This is the side of the Catholic Church that I admire. Awesome slapdown.

I like how they are consistent in their stance on human life by being against the death penalty and against birth control and abortion. It pisses off both the right and left and they don't care.


It's hard to be consistent these days so yes, that is very admirable.

As a Catholic, it helps reaffirm my belief that not every Catholic has fallen for the bastardized version of Catholicism which mixes the Prosperity Gospel in there and that there are still good Catholic out there.
 
2012-04-25 08:56:59 PM
Its right in the bible: "and behold, for the lord doth sayth "render unto ceasar a tax cut for he is a job creator and unto the poor render a swiftous kick to theiner buttockss for they be as to the spongeous; what was I thinking creating them?"
 
2012-04-25 08:57:46 PM
Surely the GOP will now rush to defend the honor of the Catholic Church by burning Ryan's cockamamie budget plan to the ground. After all, we learned from the contraception debate that the GOP is all about protecting Catholic values.
 
2012-04-25 08:58:22 PM

Lando Lincoln: Why would you base a budget on a religious teaching?


Especially catholic-based! Seems to me like a tithe would be too similar to a tax, but it's ten percent for everyone, so...flat tax? Hurray?
 
2012-04-25 09:00:34 PM
Why do Catholics hate America?
 
2012-04-25 09:05:21 PM
But Ayn Rand was Catholic, so it's all good.
 
2012-04-25 09:06:48 PM

Rapmaster2000: Sin_City_Superhero: Father Reese: "Survival of the fittest may be okay for Social Darwinists but not for followers of the gospel of compassion and love."

Well said. Though I still maintain that the budget shouldn't be based on ANY religion. Well, maybe Voodoo.

My personal budget is based on snake handling.


crooksandliars.com

Approves.
 
2012-04-25 09:07:29 PM
These people are actually starting to make me feel bad for Ayn Rand.
 
2012-04-25 09:09:18 PM
This is one of the finest summaries of Catholic Social doctrine, from a letter by Pope John Paul II called Evangelium Vitae, but sadly most Republicans and too many Catholic bishops stop reading after the first two lines:


I repeat that condemnation in the name of the whole Church, certain that I am interpreting the genuine sentiment of every upright conscience: "Whatever is opposed to life itself, such as any type of murder, genocide, abortion, euthanasia, or wilful self-destruction, whatever violates the integrity of the human person, such as mutilation, torments inflicted on body or mind, attempts to coerce the will itself; whatever insults human dignity, such as subhuman living conditions, arbitrary imprisonment, deportation, slavery, prostitution, the selling of women and children; as well as disgraceful working conditions, where people are treated as mere instruments of gain rather than as free and responsible persons; all these things and others like them are infamies indeed. They poison human society, and they do more harm to those who practise them than to those who suffer from the injury. Moreover, they are a supreme dishonour to the Creator".
 
2012-04-25 09:09:33 PM

Erebus1954: coco ebert: This is the side of the Catholic Church that I admire. Awesome slapdown.

I like how they are consistent in their stance on human life by being against the death penalty and against birth control and abortion. It pisses off both the right and left and they don't care.


Except I don't see anybody denying Paul communion. They aren't really all that consistent.

/Jesuits are pretty ok in my book, though.
 
2012-04-25 09:10:12 PM

supageil: These people are actually starting to make me feel bad for Ayn Rand.


Anthem was a decent book, better insofar as it inspired 2112.
 
2012-04-25 09:12:07 PM
I do get a kick out of the GOP.

Darwin.... bad.
Social Darwin... good.
 
2012-04-25 09:14:25 PM

Pincy: So who will be the first Republican to call the Jesuits socialists? Hell, for all I know it has already been done.


One does not simply call "God's Marines" socialists
 
2012-04-25 09:14:35 PM
"Survival of the fittest may be okay for Social Darwinists but not for followers of the gospel of compassion and love."
Or the Buddhist, Hindus and other various and sundry theological views. Compassion springs from varying theological bases. And that is why one is faulty to think they can can say that their perspective is the highest flying kite.
Good on the Jesuits to join the Bishops and give voice to the heart of the matter.
As the bracelets ask, WWJD? Mine would say WWJFKND, lol.
--- Regarding the term, "survival of the fittest", I think that one must decide on the definition of fittest. Is it physical or brain power? Is it core strength? Wisdom?
Many people I encounter that give credence to the philosophy survival of the fittest tend to think of it in brute force terms. I dunno, seems there is more to it that.
 
2012-04-25 09:15:39 PM

Magorn: This is one of the finest summaries of Catholic Social doctrine, from a letter by Pope John Paul II called Evangelium Vitae, but sadly most Republicans and too many Catholic bishops stop reading after the first two lines:


I repeat that condemnation in the name of the whole Church, certain that I am interpreting the genuine sentiment of every upright conscience: "Whatever is opposed to life itself, such as any type of murder, genocide, abortion, euthanasia, or wilful self-destruction, whatever violates the integrity of the human person, such as mutilation, torments inflicted on body or mind, attempts to coerce the will itself; whatever insults human dignity, such as subhuman living conditions, arbitrary imprisonment, deportation, slavery, prostitution, the selling of women and children; as well as disgraceful working conditions, where people are treated as mere instruments of gain rather than as free and responsible persons; all these things and others like them are infamies indeed. They poison human society, and they do more harm to those who practise them than to those who suffer from the injury. Moreover, they are a supreme dishonour to the Creator".


This was the pope that the current pope was hiding the child rapists for, right?
 
2012-04-25 09:16:05 PM
It is a great quote, but it's not JPII; it's a quotation from Vatican II's Pastoral Constitution on the Church in the Modern World (Gaudium et Spes)' from 1965.



Magorn: This is one of the finest summaries of Catholic Social doctrine, from a letter by Pope John Paul II called Evangelium Vitae, but sadly most Republicans and too many Catholic bishops stop reading after the first two lines:


I repeat that condemnation in the name of the whole Church, certain that I am interpreting the genuine sentiment of every upright conscience: "Whatever is opposed to life itself, such as any type of murder, genocide, abortion, euthanasia, or wilful self-destruction, whatever violates the integrity of the human person, such as mutilation, torments inflicted on body or mind, attempts to coerce the will itself; whatever insults human dignity, such as subhuman living conditions, arbitrary imprisonment, deportation, slavery, prostitution, the selling of women and children; as well as disgraceful working conditions, where people are treated as mere instruments of gain rather than as free and responsible persons; all these things and others like them are infamies indeed. They poison human society, and they do more harm to those who practise them than to those who suffer from the injury. Moreover, they are a supreme dishonour to the Creator".

 
2012-04-25 09:19:53 PM
Stick the fiscal conservatives and social conservatives in Thunderdome and let them fight it out.

Then unleash the tigers on the survivors.
 
2012-04-25 09:20:51 PM

coco ebert: This is the side of the Catholic Church that I admire.


Say what you will about the Church, and I've said plenty, the Jesuits are alright.
 
2012-04-25 09:21:08 PM
 
2012-04-25 09:21:30 PM

Sabyen91: Erebus1954: coco ebert: This is the side of the Catholic Church that I admire. Awesome slapdown.

I like how they are consistent in their stance on human life by being against the death penalty and against birth control and abortion. It pisses off both the right and left and they don't care.

Except I don't see anybody denying Paul communion. They aren't really all that consistent.

/Jesuits are pretty ok in my book, though.


Yeah, I tend to like the Catholics the CIA trained commandos to exterminate.
 
2012-04-25 09:22:03 PM

smeegle:
--- Regarding the term, "survival of the fittest", I think that one must decide on the definition of fittest. Is it physical or brain power? Is it core strength? Wisdom?
Many people I encounter that give credence to the philosophy survival of the fittest tend to think of it in brute force terms. I dunno, seems there is more to it that.


Obviously we don't want to define exactly what characteristics make someone "fittest". It's best just to look for the inevitable outcome of fitness, which is the accumulation of lots of money.
 
2012-04-25 09:22:25 PM
www.lolroflmao.com
 
2012-04-25 09:24:00 PM

Hobodeluxe: The best representative the catholic church has is Stephen Colbert


You ain't kidding - his remarks about his religion in that big NY Times Sunday Magazine article a while ago made me think "maybe I should consider going back to the Church". For a couple seconds, at least.
 
2012-04-25 09:24:19 PM
3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-04-25 09:24:43 PM

Rapmaster2000: My personal budget is based on snake handling.


I bet your hooker expenses are almost nil then.
 
2012-04-25 09:26:10 PM

grotto_man: Ryan's right - http://www.crisismagazine.com/2012/rose-delauro-cns-and-the-disorient e d-catholic-left .

Now, to make matters worse, here is Paul Ryan, a congressman of uncommon intelligence...


Excuse me while I barf.

who can ably argue the public policy implications of Catholic social doctrine and who understands that what the Church asks of a just society is the empowerment of the poor: breaking the cycle of welfare dependency and unleashing the creativity the Church believes God builds into every human soul.

What a load of BS that is. Paul Ryan isn't going to sleep with you George.

Tell me where it says that we should tell the poor to fark off anytime they ask for help. Because that's what Paul Ryan's bullshiat budget is suggesting.
 
2012-04-25 09:26:54 PM

Bhasayate: But Ayn Rand was Catholic, so it's all good.


You're thinking of Hitler. The other crazy person with a weird accent and a stupid haircut that hated Communists and worked to erase their Jewish heritage so that Nazis didn't take note of it. It's okay to get them confused.
 
2012-04-25 09:29:34 PM

Falcc: Bhasayate: But Ayn Rand was Catholic, so it's all good.

You're thinking of Hitler. The other crazy person with a weird accent and a stupid haircut that hated Communists and worked to erase their Jewish heritage so that Nazis didn't take note of it. It's okay to get them confused.


Oh, I'm just kidding. Ayn Rand was totally not Catholic. Everyone knows she was Buddhist. =p
 
2012-04-25 09:31:00 PM

grotto_man: Ryan's right - http://www.crisismagazine.com/2012/rose-delauro-cns-and-the-disorient e d-catholic-left .


Like hell he is. Crisis magazine exists for the sole purpose of adapting Catholicism to far right political ideology. It's about as accurate as Fox News.
 
2012-04-25 09:32:19 PM

smeegle: "Survival of the fittest may be okay for Social Darwinists but not for followers of the gospel of compassion and love."
Or the Buddhist, Hindus and other various and sundry theological views. Compassion springs from varying theological bases. And that is why one is faulty to think they can can say that their perspective is the highest flying kite.
Good on the Jesuits to join the Bishops and give voice to the heart of the matter.
As the bracelets ask, WWJD? Mine would say WWJFKND, lol.
--- Regarding the term, "survival of the fittest", I think that one must decide on the definition of fittest. Is it physical or brain power? Is it core strength? Wisdom?
Many people I encounter that give credence to the philosophy survival of the fittest tend to think of it in brute force terms. I dunno, seems there is more to it that, my precious


FTFY
 
2012-04-25 09:32:46 PM
when are the teabaggers going to flood the thread and explain to everyone that the Catholic Bishops don't know shiat about Catholicism and Ryan has a masters degree in everything relevant including religion and economics
 
2012-04-25 09:32:53 PM

Scaevola: grotto_man: Ryan's right - http://www.crisismagazine.com/2012/rose-delauro-cns-and-the-disorient e d-catholic-left .

Like hell he is. Crisis magazine exists for the sole purpose of adapting Catholicism to far right political ideology. It's about as accurate as Fox News.


Yeah, they and Bill Donohue are compatriots.
 
2012-04-25 09:33:59 PM

grotto_man: Ryan's right - http://www.crisismagazine.com/2012/rose-delauro-cns-and-the-disorient e d-catholic-left .


Let's see, who to believe. Bishops who cite Catholic doctrine, or this guy?
 
2012-04-25 09:34:47 PM
Read the Beatitudes, Jesus was a dirty socialist.
 
2012-04-25 09:38:45 PM

falcon176: when are the teabaggers going to flood the thread and explain to everyone that the Catholic Bishops don't know shiat about Catholicism and Ryan has a masters degree in everything relevant including religion and economics


grotto_man got a head start with that whopper of an article he posted talking about the "uncommon intelligence" of Paul Ryan.

And if by "uncommon intelligence", he means dumb as a box of rocks to design a budget based on 2% unemployment and when asked about the details of his plans such as which loopholes to close, he basically said "i dunno".

Then yes....yes he is
 
2012-04-25 09:39:18 PM
Allow me to paraphrase from Jesus (Family Guy)

" I heard what you were saying. You know nothing of my of work. How you ever got to be congressman of anything is totally amazing. "
 
2012-04-25 09:40:19 PM
This is a man who is ON RECORD saying that the military budget should be based on how much money they want.

"President Obama put out his budget number for the Pentagon first ... and then they began the strategy review to conform the budget to meet that number. We think it should have been the other way around."

And people take him seriously.

Seriously, what the fark?
 
2012-04-25 09:41:24 PM
When even Newt Gingrich blasts your healthcare plan as right-wing social engineering you've gone too far.
 
2012-04-25 09:41:31 PM
It used to be satire, but the Randbots have brought it into the real world: Link
 
2012-04-25 09:41:40 PM

Once again, it's the left that gets Catholic Social Doctrine right. If you want to know the real position of the Church, don't trust a group of politicized bishops, read what the Popes have to say.

Pope John Paul II already spoke on this subject, and quite definitively:

In recent years the range of such intervention has vastly expanded, to the point of creating a new type of State, the so-called "Welfare State". This has happened in some countries in order to respond better to many needs and demands, by remedying forms of poverty and deprivation unworthy of the human person. However, excesses and abuses, especially in recent years, have provoked very harsh criticisms of the Welfare State, dubbed the "Social Assistance State". Malfunctions and defects in the Social Assistance State are the result of an inadequate understanding of the tasks proper to the State. Here again the principle of subsidiarity must be respected: a community of a higher order should not interfere in the internal life of a community of a lower order, depriving the latter of its functions, but rather should support it in case of need and help to coordinate its activity with the activities of the rest of society, always with a view to the common good.100

By intervening directly and depriving society of its responsibility, the Social Assistance State leads to a loss of human energies and an inordinate increase of public agencies, which are dominated more by bureaucratic ways of thinking than by concern for serving their clients, and which are accompanied by an enormous increase in spending. In fact, it would appear that needs are best understood and satisfied by people who are closest to them and who act as neighbours to those in need. It should be added that certain kinds of demands often call for a response which is not simply material but which is capable of perceiving the deeper human need. One thinks of the condition of refugees, immigrants, the elderly, the sick, and all those in circumstances which call for assistance, such as drug abusers: all these people can be helped effectively only by those who offer them genuine fraternal support, in addition to the necessary care.


Centesimus annus, 1991

His reference to the doctrine of subsidiarity was no accident:

79. As history abundantly proves, it is true that on account of changed conditions many things which were done by small associations in former times cannot be done now save by large associations. Still, that most weighty principle, which cannot be set aside or changed, remains fixed and unshaken in social philosophy: Just as it is gravely wrong to take from individuals what they can accomplish by their own initiative and industry and give it to the community, so also it is an injustice and at the same time a grave evil and disturbance of right order to assign to a greater and higher association what lesser and subordinate organizations can do. For every social activity ought of its very nature to furnish help to the members of the body social, and never destroy and absorb them.


Pius XI, Quadragesimo Anno, 1931.

The US Catholic Bishops can complain all they want about the Ryan budget, but their nakedly political statements do not reflect the actual teachings of the Catholic Church.
 
2012-04-25 09:41:43 PM

Erix: inevitable outcome of fitness, which is the accumulation of lots of money.


How is the accumulation of wealth a single measure of being fittest?
 
2012-04-25 09:42:42 PM

jso2897: Objectivism is psychopathy autismexpressed as a personal philosophy.
Libertarianism is psychopathy autism expressed as a political philosophy.


Adjusted for accuracy.
 
2012-04-25 09:42:52 PM

smeegle: Erix: inevitable outcome of fitness, which is the accumulation of lots of money.

How is the accumulation of wealth a single measure of being fittest?


Especially if there was a revolution.
 
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