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(Politico)   Obama's lawyer farks up his argument to the Supreme Court against Arizona's immigration law so badly--even Justice Sotomayor isn't buying it   (politico.com) divider line 561
    More: Fail, Sonia Sotomayor, supreme courts, laws, obama, illegal immigration, solicitor general, Donald Verrilli, Alito  
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18077 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Apr 2012 at 2:41 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-25 08:48:53 PM

justtray: So you agree this law is redundant and serves no purpose?


Except for the fact that many sanctuary cities accept those mexican id cards, matricula consular, as valid proof of identity.
 
2012-04-25 08:50:15 PM
lol...

This has been a good one. Bravo, Farkers. When I need a few chuckles, you don't disappoint.
 
2012-04-25 08:57:58 PM

Stinkyy: [www.jesus-is-savior.com image 568x426]

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 400x317]

[tammybruce.com image 520x343]

[i236.photobucket.com image 520x414]

[www.politifake.org image 640x688]

[wonkette.com image 500x324]

[c498390.r90.cf2.rackcdn.com image 640x360]


that's unimaginably counterproductive. I wish you were not on my team.
 
2012-04-25 08:59:16 PM
Stinkyy,

I know they say pictures are worth a thousand words and you think you just posted the equivalent of a well-reasoned essay, but I'd ask you to try to redeem yours for cash value instead. Even though it'll be one of those 1/100th of a cent situations you encounter on sweepstakes entry forms.
 
2012-04-25 09:15:25 PM

camelwalk: Stinkyy,

I know they say pictures are worth a thousand words and you think you just posted the equivalent of a well-reasoned essay, but I'd ask you to try to redeem yours for cash value instead. Even though it'll be one of those 1/100th of a cent situations you encounter on sweepstakes entry forms.


"Every time an illegal alien kills an American, a liberal gets his wings."
 
2012-04-25 09:16:58 PM

DrewCurtisJr: justtray: So you agree this law is redundant and serves no purpose?

Except for the fact that many sanctuary cities accept those mexican id cards, matricula consular, as valid proof of identity.


And..? Do go on. I'm sure the continuation of this point will make a ton of sense and not paint you as a bigot.
 
2012-04-25 09:17:24 PM
There needs to be an amnesty and guest worker program (not just for mexicans) that allows for reality, while providing us the ability to kick out the true freeloaders.

/nobody jumps the line, though
 
2012-04-25 09:20:00 PM
So, have they figured out what race and/or ethnicity illegal is?
 
2012-04-25 09:28:47 PM

Slam1263: So, have they figured out what race and/or ethnicity illegal is?


yes. potato

that is how libs think.
 
2012-04-25 09:30:06 PM

justtray: And..? Do go on. I'm sure the continuation of this point will make a ton of sense and not paint you as a bigot.


So you don't understand something that would be perfectly clear to almost anyone else and you have to pull the "You're just a bigot" argument. That seems to be the theme of this thread, I don't have an argument so I'm going resort to name calling.
 
2012-04-25 09:34:52 PM

Thunderpipes: Umm, you realize even American white people can be stopped until they ID is ran, right? Is that wrong in your eyes?


With no probable cause? Yes, that is wrong. Clearly, blatantly wrong. Why do you think it is OK?
 
2012-04-25 09:39:41 PM
Solicitor General Donald Verrilli Jr. is a worthless, worthless attorney.

He's pissed away the healthcare case, and he's pissed away this one.

It's so bad, the justices manage to make better arguments for him, BECAUSE THEY KNOW HOW BAD HE IS.
 
2012-04-25 09:40:32 PM

DrewCurtisJr: justtray: And..? Do go on. I'm sure the continuation of this point will make a ton of sense and not paint you as a bigot.

So you don't understand something that would be perfectly clear to almost anyone else and you have to pull the "You're just a bigot" argument. That seems to be the theme of this thread, I don't have an argument so I'm going resort to name calling.


So you have nothing? Got it. Pathetic deflection by the way. You should work on your reading comprehension.
 
2012-04-25 09:52:22 PM

justtray: So you have nothing? Got it. Pathetic deflection by the way. You should work on your reading comprehension.


Right. And you're just pathetic. Maybe someone will come along and explain the simple concept to you, I'm not going to waste my time.
 
2012-04-25 09:53:00 PM
I know this has been said several times, but let me add my voice to the chorus calling for strict and heavy penalties to Americans who hire illegals. If there weren't a reason to come here, then they wouldn't come in the first place. The naked profit seeking of people and companies looking to shave labor costs down to line their own pockets is not only unethical, immoral and astoundingly self-centered, it's also incredibly short-sighted as their momentary profits are nothing compared to the destruction of their country's society and culture that they're responsible for ("they" meaning the unscrupulous employers). Sock it to 'em good, I say.
 
2012-04-25 09:55:48 PM

DrewCurtisJr: justtray: So you have nothing? Got it. Pathetic deflection by the way. You should work on your reading comprehension.

Right. And you're just pathetic. Maybe someone will come along and explain the simple concept to you, I'm not going to waste my time.


"It's so simple I'm not gonna explain it to you."

This is how Republicans actually argue.
 
2012-04-25 10:08:34 PM

justtray: "It's so simple I'm not gonna explain it to you."

This is how Republicans actually argue.


"I can't understand why accepting an id card they hand out to anyone doesn't verify legal presence so I'll accuse you of bigotry"

This is how justray actually argues.
 
2012-04-25 10:10:39 PM

DrewCurtisJr: "I can't understand why accepting an id card they hand out to anyone doesn't verify legal presence so I'll accuse you of bigotry"


The fark?
 
2012-04-25 10:26:49 PM

DrewCurtisJr: justtray: "It's so simple I'm not gonna explain it to you."

This is how Republicans actually argue.

"I can't understand why accepting an id card they hand out to anyone doesn't verify legal presence so I'll accuse you of bigotry"

This is how justray actually argues.


Still rocking that 1st grade reading comprehension?

Hint - my point was accurate, yours was not.

It's ok I know what your argument is. "We need this law because a few sanctuary cities don't lock up the illegals, so this law will let us bypass that."

There's not a non-bigot way to make that point unfortuantely for you, which is why you were too afraid to say it.

And how does an ID not verify legal status? Rofl. You're a moron.
 
2012-04-25 11:02:02 PM

justtray: There's not a non-bigot way to make that point unfortuantely for you, which is why you were too afraid to say it.


So enforcing immigration laws is bigotry?

And how does an ID not verify legal status? Rofl. You're a moron.

Sometimes called "matricula consular" cards, the IDs are issued by some foreign governments to their citizens living, both legally and illegally, in another country.
 
2012-04-25 11:08:19 PM

The First Four Black Sabbath Albums: FTFA: "Jesus loves SB 1070."

I thought the whole point of SB 1070 was to get rid of as many Jesuses as possible?


I'm a third generation Jesus.
 
2012-04-25 11:13:36 PM

JustGetItRight: If they could show a pattern of profiling, they would have a better case but they screwed the pooch by not waiting.



No. If the police use profiling to enforce any law, the profiling would be considered by the court on it's own merits. It has nothing to do with a particular law unless the law itself explicitly states a particular race to detain, which, yes, would be unconstitutional.

The profiling question is nothing new, and has existed before this particular immigration law. So let's pick a law that has nothing to do with immigration - that may help with clearer thinking.

For example, say it was shown that some police department was using racial profiling to determine who to give a breathalyzer test to during a routine traffic stop. A court wouldn't strike down all laws against drunk driving due a police dept doing this. Because the law against drunk driving is not responsible for the police using racial profiling. Profiling is a separate issue from drunk driving. The court would just tell the police, don't racially profile. The laws against drunk driving would be unaffected.

/let's hope no cop uses profiling in a murder case!
 
2012-04-25 11:43:34 PM

muck4doo: Maximum Snark: ahhh... threads like these are always great for expanding my ever growing list of ignored asshole trolls/right wing nutters/thread shiatters and left wing nutters. Eventually I figure we can end up having a decent conversation regarding facts between intelligent individuals if the knuckledraggers and mouth breathers are filtered away like the garbage they are.

My list is already up 81 names! yay! Keep it up!

No one gives a shiat about your list.


/You don't say much my friend, but when you do it's to the point, and I salute you for it.
 
2012-04-26 12:06:17 AM
I just happened to find this:

Young men in Mexico say the US no longer offers them a better future

I liked this part:

The choice to stay home appears to have little to with the ongoing militarisation of the long US-Mexico border that started in the mid-1980s. The border now costs $3.5bn annually in fence construction and technology that includes drones and motion sensors. Critics say it's an effective local employment boon - the number of border agents has tripled in recent years - but little more: the measures do not in themselves dissuade migrants.
 
2012-04-26 12:22:23 AM

Isitoveryet:
do i have a farking fish hook in my mouth right now?


Nope. There are three types of threads on Fark.com I need to stay out of.

illegal immigration
environmental
womens' right to an abortion

I'm very left on environmental and pro-choice and I'm very anti-illegal immigration. Much of that comes from my life experiences.


/Oh and I don't do well on Middle Eastern threads because the Republican candidate announced he would go to war with Iran. Yep, Mitt Romney.
 
2012-04-26 12:24:50 AM

DrewCurtisJr: justtray: So you have nothing? Got it. Pathetic deflection by the way. You should work on your reading comprehension.

Right. And you're just pathetic. Maybe someone will come along and explain the simple concept to you, I'm not going to waste my time.


You're a shiatty debater. You don't even pretend to present facts and do nothing but insult people. Go away.
 
2012-04-26 01:32:04 AM
UCFRoadWarrior:
Imagine....the Mexican Government actively "Deporting" its own people! And the US gets blasted for having laws that every other nation on this planet have in regard to immigration

Just points out the absolute stupidity of people who support any form of Illegal Alien Amnesty

Mexican President Felipe Calderon denounced the laws as "racial discrimination," and "a violation of human rights." Perhaps we should reform our laws, and take a cue from a country obviously concerned with human rights as relates to immigrants... Oh. NEVER MIND.
 
2012-04-26 01:34:34 AM
jabelar:
MaliFinn: What do people not understand about the fact that parts of America have always been brown and don't speak English as their first language?

What I find amusing, living in California, is all the people that complain about Hispanics being illegals and going back to where they came from, while living in a city called "San whatever", with an address on "Calle de whatever", etc. People just don't get that there are Hispanic families that have been here 10 generations or so.

News flash -- people born in the U.S.A. are not illegals. The people YOU are talking about are citizens.
 
2012-04-26 02:18:48 AM
Wow.

There is so much diseducation in this thread it makes my head hurt a bit.

No real 'merican wants these jobs, really.

And they'd do'em shiatty if they got'em, anyway.

Who's gonna fill your table with fruits and vegetables, feed and make a home for you farking out-of-touch wealthy-ites?

Certainly not YOUR children...

*&%#$!?

Seriously.

If I've said it once here, I've said it a thousand times:

Grow up.

;)
 
2012-04-26 02:21:22 AM
EWreckedSean:
I'm not remotely a liberal. And your analogy sucks. They aren't trying to take anything from anybody when they come here.

Oh, so they bring jobs with them when they sneak over the border? And, if you're not a liberal, you sure share their cognitive difficulties...
Most work incredibly hard trying to better themselves and provide a better life for their families, This should be a no brainer for conservatives. The way immigration and the laws are set up, we force these people to end up on the welfare roles instead of being hard working, productive members of society.

Un-farking-believable. We "force these people to end up on the welfare roles [sic]" . Oh, we are such monsters. People show up here illegally, and we punish them by giving them enough money that they can send home enough to turn their relatives into aristocracy. So, the only two choices are a good job, and welfare? Personally, I'd go with C) Deportation.

/ "These people?" Is that better than "you people?"
 
2012-04-26 02:47:02 AM
9beers:
You won't find a person of Fark that would complain if a US citizen was kicked out of another country for being there illegally but we're supposed to turn a blind eye to people here illegally. What kind of retard logic are you people using?

Only the very finest!

www.zombietime.com
Accept only American-Made Stupidity -
Keep Liberal Farkers Employed
 
2012-04-26 03:16:58 AM
Yesterday, when I bought a 7-layer burrito at Taco Bell, they asked to see my ID. WHAT IS GOING ON?!
 
2012-04-26 03:23:53 AM
menschenfresser:
I know this has been said several times, but let me add my voice to the chorus calling for strict and heavy penalties to Americans who hire illegals. If there weren't a reason to come here, then they wouldn't come in the first place. The naked profit seeking of people and companies looking to shave labor costs down to line their own pockets is not only unethical, immoral and astoundingly self-centered, it's also incredibly short-sighted as their momentary profits are nothing compared to the destruction of their country's society and culture that they're responsible for ("they" meaning the unscrupulous employers). Sock it to 'em good, I say.

Yes, that is where the onus should lie. Make it more expensive to hire illegals than to hire citizens or legal immigrants, and the problem solves itself.

/ Mental note: Never tell this guy "eat me."
// I keed, I keed.
 
2012-04-26 03:24:53 AM
I'm against illegal immigration. That said, when y'all leavin'?!

(Funnily enough, a mexican is a native of this continent and has more a right to walk north than most living here.)

Man if my ancestors funded their homeland security better, we'd have shot white folks coming off boats instead of welcoming them as brothers. Damn, that turned out badly. :P
 
2012-04-26 03:32:17 AM

LeroyBourne: I'm sure they'll detain a few white people, just so it's not blatantly obvious they're just going for brown people. They so sneaky.


It must be nice to be so stupid. I can think of no other reason why you'd elect to be that way and it is obvious that you elect to do so. Your statement is painfully stupid. You're going to believe that it is racism no matter what - even though there's every bit of evidence that this law isn't racist. I suspect you think this means that they can just randomly stop brown people, arrest them if they're not carrying their identification, and then deport them just for fun or harass them.

Like I said, it must be nice to be so stupid. I realize that it is easy and all, not having to think must be cool, but I just don't think I could do it. The social stigma would get to me and I'd have to assume my friends would abandon me and my family would just ignore me. I'd hopefully be able to find enough stupid people to keep me company.

The worst part is that you're not trolling. You can't even claim you are. You're just an idiot. If I send you a few bucks with PayPal (you're certainly not employable) would you do us a favor and buy some rope so that you can string up? You're an exception to the rule. If you have a spouse and children then you can (and should) kill them too. The risk of allowing them to keep breeding is too great and sometimes it is worth a small amount of pain to ensure a greater chance of healing. If your parents and siblings agree with you then you should add them to the list.

I do, on the other hand, envy you. I really do. Stupid people have it great in many ways. Nobody gives them responsibility. Nobody makes them lead. Nobody asks them for help (except heavy lifting I imagine). Nobody needs you for anything. You can just screw up and be lazy and nobody actually expects better from you. *sighs* Unfortunately, I was healthy when I was born, my parents aren't siblings, and I've since learned to engage in critical thinking. Yeah, it sucks. Oh well... At least I can read this without moving my lips and pointing to the screen.

/if there are any long words - I tried to keep it simple - ask your wife/cousin to help
//or call on your support staff tomorrow to help
 
2012-04-26 03:48:27 AM
You know, the only reason to say that people should not have to have an ID to vote is if you plan on committing voter fraud. I do not think people who try to make it a racial issue realize how racist they are being. Only the most committed bigot would think that vast numbers of minorities would be so incompetent as to not be able to get an ID.

Also, we have cops make judgement calls in the field all the time. Cops tend to know their community, that is their job. If some one has no ID, cannot speak English and has little to no knowledge of the area, it is safe to say "we might want to check that guy, make sure he is here legally". I seriously doubt cops will want to waste their time trying to throw all the brown people south of the boarder and if some one does get illegally deported they will have grounds to sue the state and the cop. Most cops just want to do their job and then go home at night. They would rather not be subject of civil rights violation law suits.

If we are going to make this country a free-for all and let anyone in, lets at least repeal our current immigration laws and put something else in place that allows us to let the good people in, keep the monsters like MS13 out, and put coyotes out of business. Just turning our heads and ignoring our own laws is always going to cause problems for everyone.
 
2012-04-26 03:59:49 AM

DrewCurtisJr: A person is "presumed to not be an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States" if he or she presents any of the following four forms of identification: a valid Arizona driver license; a valid Arizona nonoperating identification license; a valid tribal enrollment card or other tribal identification;


Which makes anyone with Texas or California plates fair game.

Yoyo: I know I'm late to this, but I'd just like to add, that the Mexicans (really, what other Latinos are there in Arizona? Ok, maybe some Guatemalans) darn near admit their guilt by being all up in arms about this while all the Asians, Europeans, and Africans don't say squat.


We made the Africans slaves and put the Asians in concentration camps, so they would learn not to complain very loud. The Europeans were white, so they're in charge and have nothing to complain about.
 
2012-04-26 04:08:13 AM

Johnny Lemonhead: more indefinite detention


I am NOT certain and make no claim BUT I believe they were discussing this on MSNBC when they made the law and that the law had a time provision included. I'm not really a fan of the law in itself. I do dislike illegal immigration which, and this amuses me, gets me labeled as being racist against South Americans. The reality is that we have an issue with Canadian loggers who are lily white. A few make it into factories and there are few of those jobs remaining here. I personally know a total of three illegals. I'm not a dick enough to call the cops or anything and all of them are entirely self-sufficient or are retired and on over-stayed visas.

Then again, to be honest, I'm not really a fan of any laws in specific. In a more perfect world we're not need them to be specifically codified and they would be more region and democratically effected. Judges would judge on merit and that particular area's definition of acceptable behavior. As far as I can see, all laws are a restriction on your liberties AND freedoms. A part of the problem is people don't know the difference between the two.

Hmm... I have a minute or ten. I'm free to go, grab a gun, and go shoot my neighbor. I'm not at liberty to do so. I am free to do so, so long as I accept the consequences of my actions. I'm never at liberty to do so. If they were here, threatening, endangering, or violent then I'd be at liberty to do so but, if they were able to keep me from it, I'd not be free to do so but that freedom wasn't imposed on by the government.

It isn't really difficult, I'm not aiming this specifically at you either, but it appears that a lot of people truly don't understand how society works nor do they understand how the two words differ and what significance the words and effects have.

They don't have the freedom (all the time) to cross here illegally. They sure as hell don't have the liberty to do so. If you drop the partisan pretext you'll see that we've not had any effective action and that this is a failure on the part of the federal government. They're all sorts of happy to impose their will in areas where they're not authorized by the constitution to do so (see the bastardization of 'the commerce clause' for an example) while failing at the very basic reason why we have them in the first place (securing our borders). They'll spend trillions chucking bombs at little brown men across the globe while giving lip service to the very exact reasons we elected them in the first place.

It's cute when people argue that one side is better than the other. It is simplistic and harmful to the country. They actually think they're helping... It is sad and pathetic. Simplistic people should really not be allowed to vote. The system is a failure. There really should be a test to vote - and, yes, it should be given to everyone regardless of their race and reasonable accommodations made for illiteracy or what not but 'that's racist...

I also think we should amend the constitution or just give up on it. It is in sore need of updating, revamping, and fixing. Unfortunately, I think that the people in power would make a mockery of it in the process. *sighs* I haven't lost hope. The fact of the matter is that I'm insanely well protected regardless. I'm so insulated that none of this will ever impact me, it simply can't. Well, it can't in any long-term or meaningful fashion. (I'm fairly well heeled and old enough to be retired.)

The kids today ask us to feel sorry for them, they ask us to realize that we ruined it for them, and they scream about the things they want. I don't see them doing anything different or trying for anything different. It just looks like they want to screw over the generations behind them for their own interests. They want their comfort, too. It amuses me as they attempt to make intellectually sound arguments while ignoring the elephant in the room. Every single non-renewable resource we use today is one that won't be there tomorrow. Every generation before has done this to the next generation and every young generation is going to lead to ruin. They think they're special... I'm greatly amused.

Ah well, sorry for the digression and the long post. You needn't read it and probably won't but I feel oddly compelled to send it.
 
2012-04-26 04:26:47 AM

Felgraf: ... And supporting a law that allows people to be arrested for not having an ID on them *isn't* fascist?


THIS.

Papers, please.
 
2012-04-26 06:19:26 AM

MyRandomName: Aarontology: sammyk: S.B. 1070 allows local authorities to stop someone for jaywalking, if they can't prove immigration status on the spot the locals are allowed to detain that person indefinitly until that status is determined. All this without due process or a judges order. Just the hunch of a local beat cop.

And that's the only part of the law I have problems with. I don't have issues with them trying to figure out who they have in cuffs. Only that it could mean citizens are detained without trial or charge. Any possibility of racial profiling aside, it could be used as a mechanism to arrest people they otherwise wouldn't have reason to detain, you know?

If someone jaywalks or commits a crime and does not provide proof of person, they can already be detained until their identity is known. Next time you are pulled over refuse to give your identity and see what happens. Officers can call in for identification like they already do.


Nope
Link
Link
Link
 
2012-04-26 09:11:54 AM
I wonder how many of those opposed to that and other anti-illegal immigration laws have offered a solution that has a reasonable chance of working.
 
2012-04-26 09:52:58 AM

MaliFinn: You're a shiatty debater. You don't even pretend to present facts and do nothing but insult people. Go away.


This coming from a person who responded to my comment with:

MaliFinn: Nobody would mistake you for someone clever enough to be in the country illegally.


You focus on my insults and ignore the fact that it was responding to the insults of others.

I've also provided several links to back up my comments, what facts have you provided?
 
2012-04-26 10:53:51 AM

taurusowner: MaliFinn: What do people not understand about the fact that parts of America have always been brown and don't speak English as their first language?

What people don't matter is that's not the farking point. The Left can throw up there straw man "brown people" horseshiat all day, but that's not really the issue. It's about following the law.


That's an incredibly undemocratic attitude. The purpose of our laws is to reflect the attitude of the people it protects and governs. The moment it no longer serves this function, the citizens carry the right to amend the law. Legislators also have the right to amend or revoke the law if it violates the beliefs held by the society.

To blindly adhere to law, just because it is the law, is an absurd and silly thing to say. The Supreme Court was made specifically for those affected to appeal the application or institution of a law.

In fact, there's even a legal out jurors have to avoid using the law to determine punishment. It's called jury nullification. It allows juries to not determine a case's outcome based on the law but based in whether or not they find the application of the law to be ethically or morally wrong.
 
2012-04-26 11:06:02 AM

Silly Jesus: EWreckedSean: AllUpInYa: Pretty much every other country actively defends is sovereignty, why shouldn't the US do the same?

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 500x410]

That's quaint and all, but I haven't seen Lady Liberty paying for overwhelmed hospitals or schools etc. recently. She's also situated in an area where a process for immigrating legally began. Here, we are talking about illegal immigrants.


Do you know what would resolve all of the financial issues created by illegal immigration?

Giving them rights and a taxable status. We also save money by not trying to implement laws encouraging self-deportation. Policing non-violent, hard working people is expensive.
 
2012-04-26 11:08:38 AM

DrewCurtisJr: MaliFinn: You're a shiatty debater. You don't even pretend to present facts and do nothing but insult people. Go away.

This coming from a person who responded to my comment with:

MaliFinn: Nobody would mistake you for someone clever enough to be in the country illegally.

You focus on my insults and ignore the fact that it was responding to the insults of others.

I've also provided several links to back up my comments, what facts have you provided?


The actual text of the bill in question, which you failed to respond to. You're not very good at this, get a real hobby.
 
2012-04-26 11:16:40 AM

MaliFinn: The actual text of the bill in question, which you failed to respond to.


I did respond to that comment, read up the thread, being brown, not speaking english aren't enough for reasonable suspicion.

You're not very good at this, get a real hobby.

You just make it too easy. You attempt to insult me, complain when I insult you back, and when I point it out you try to insult me again.

MaliFinn: You don't even pretend to present facts and do nothing but insult people.

 
2012-04-26 11:40:53 AM

DrewCurtisJr: MaliFinn: The actual text of the bill in question, which you failed to respond to.

I did respond to that comment, read up the thread, being brown, not speaking english aren't enough for reasonable suspicion.

You're not very good at this, get a real hobby.

You just make it too easy. You attempt to insult me, complain when I insult you back, and when I point it out you try to insult me again.

MaliFinn: You don't even pretend to present facts and do nothing but insult people.


I don't suppose you'll get around to addressing the bill's text eventually, will you? Especially the part where indefinite detention for the purpose of id verification rests on any officer's "suspicion"?

We're waiting... going on about 18 hours now.
 
2012-04-26 11:48:34 AM

KrustyKitten: Bontesla: EWreckedSean: AllUpInYa: EWreckedSean: AllUpInYa: Pretty much every other country actively defends is sovereignty, why shouldn't the US do the same?

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 500x410]

Wow, I didn't know that our statues wrote laws....

They don't right laws, but it speaks to how and why the US is different from other nations. We are a nation of immigrants, whose greatness was built on the backs of our immigrant forefathers coming here, working hard in search of a better life. There is certainly plenty of room here for the next batch of immigrants who would like to do the same.

I also hate that the accident of one's birth can determine so much. Is there not a better way to determine who warrants freedom? The fact that my mother squatted on American soil during birth should not entitle me to more freedom than granted to those risking everything just to be here. Their fight for freedom is the most American thing we are currently witnessing.

04/10

/I cried.
//just a little


Not a troll :)

Feel free to disagree using actual arguments now.
 
2012-04-26 11:52:53 AM

relcec: Bontesla: EWreckedSean: AllUpInYa: EWreckedSean: AllUpInYa: Pretty much every other country actively defends is sovereignty, why shouldn't the US do the same?

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 500x410]

Wow, I didn't know that our statues wrote laws....

They don't right laws, but it speaks to how and why the US is different from other nations. We are a nation of immigrants, whose greatness was built on the backs of our immigrant forefathers coming here, working hard in search of a better life. There is certainly plenty of room here for the next batch of immigrants who would like to do the same.

I also hate that the accident of one's birth can determine so much. Is there not a better way to determine who warrants freedom? The fact that my mother squatted on American soil during birth should not entitle me to more freedom than granted to those risking everything just to be here. Their fight for freedom is the most American thing we are currently witnessing.


decent wages for all and a strong safety net, or
liberal immigration policies.
you must chose one. they are absolutely mutually exclusive.


open immigration can't coexist with a strong social safety net; if you're going to assure health care and a decent income to everyone, you can't make that offer global.
-Paul Krugman


What are, specifically, the liberal immigration policies you speak of? With citation of course.

You know . . . Since I must choose one.
 
2012-04-26 12:02:19 PM

MaliFinn: I don't suppose you'll get around to addressing the bill's text eventually, will you?


I responded to the part of the that was relevant you your "brown people who don't speak english claim" and the part that you yourself highlighted about reasonable suspicions. Go back and read for yourself.

Especially the part where indefinite detention for the purpose of id verification rests on any officer's "suspicion"?

The term is reasonable suspicion and it is a common legal term and doesn't say anything about being brown. I ready responded to that.

You got anything else as you try to salvage your ego?
 
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