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(Huffington Post)   Wal-Mart pushed to change bribery laws it violated   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 49
    More: Obvious, Wal-Mart  
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2336 clicks; posted to Business » on 25 Apr 2012 at 2:13 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-25 11:02:23 AM
Farked after six clicks?
 
2012-04-25 11:20:36 AM
I don't know if I can really fault Walmart that much on this.

The Foreign Corrupt Practices Act is such a weird, draconian piece of legislation.
 
2012-04-25 11:29:17 AM
"Bribery" is a loaded word, connoting ill gotten influence. "Private financial incentivization" sounds so much better.
 
2012-04-25 11:31:10 AM
I sure can. It's pretty simple. Is recipient of payment a foreign official or direct affiliation/acting on behalf of said official? Do not make payment.

It is weird and draconian to a degree, but also it seems a large complaint is "they are aggressively enforcing this, stop doing that". Or, maybe just stop doing the stuff that is getting you in trouble?

God, corporate greed is just over the top lately. The dollar shouldn't be so damn sacred to a company that they break laws in pursuit of it, and attempt to have said laws changed once broken to make what you did A-OK.
 
2012-04-25 11:51:58 AM
Having just finished my company's mandatory HR modules on Business Ethics, Foreign Corruption, and Export Compliance, I'm really getting a kick of these bribes.
 
2012-04-25 11:57:51 AM
Presumably by bribing lawmakers to pass it.

I'm sorry, lobbying lawmakers. I forgot for a second the PC term.
 
2012-04-25 12:01:41 PM

Elandriel: Is recipient of payment a foreign official or direct affiliation/acting on behalf of said official? Do not make payment.


The law allows for "facilitating payments" in foreign countries to prevent projects from being held up on a bureaucrat's desk.
 
2012-04-25 12:27:52 PM
I hate Wal-Mart as much as anybody else does, but I can't really get too upset about this. If you're going to punish to a business operating in Mexico for paying bribes in order to get things done, then you're going to have to punish . . . well, every business operating in Mexico.
 
2012-04-25 12:30:27 PM

Diogenes: Having just finished my company's mandatory HR modules on Business Ethics, Foreign Corruption, and Export Compliance, I'm really getting a kick of these bribes.


yeah, we have to take that stupid course every year too. what Wal-Mart did was, at least according to what our corporate law offices are telling us, highly illegal. My company has made it very clear that if any of US get caught up in a bribery scandal, our ass if fired immediately.

that said, getting caught first in a bribery scandal and then caught trying to weaken the corrupt practices act is...excessive. And yet, GOP shills will try and defend Wal Mart. I find that sort of thing incomprehensible.
 
2012-04-25 12:32:26 PM

Cyberluddite: I hate Wal-Mart as much as anybody else does, but I can't really get too upset about this. If you're going to punish to a business operating in Mexico for paying bribes in order to get things done, then you're going to have to punish . . . well, every business operating in Mexico.


sorry dude - but we passed a law in THIS country that says you play by the rules or you go to jail.
 
2012-04-25 01:01:21 PM

Weaver95: Cyberluddite: I hate Wal-Mart as much as anybody else does, but I can't really get too upset about this. If you're going to punish to a business operating in Mexico for paying bribes in order to get things done, then you're going to have to punish . . . well, every business operating in Mexico.

sorry dude - but we passed a law in THIS country that says you play by the rules or you go to jail.


The rules say that paying bribes in order to facilitate what should be the normal course of action (i.e. an official won't give you a permit he is supposed to unless you bribe him) is perfectly legal.
 
2012-04-25 02:07:30 PM

ArkAngel: Weaver95: Cyberluddite: I hate Wal-Mart as much as anybody else does, but I can't really get too upset about this. If you're going to punish to a business operating in Mexico for paying bribes in order to get things done, then you're going to have to punish . . . well, every business operating in Mexico.

sorry dude - but we passed a law in THIS country that says you play by the rules or you go to jail.

The rules say that paying bribes in order to facilitate what should be the normal course of action (i.e. an official won't give you a permit he is supposed to unless you bribe him) is perfectly legal.


Not according to US laws. You offers bribe in another country, you can go to jail for it in this one.
 
2012-04-25 02:10:41 PM

Weaver95: ArkAngel: Weaver95: Cyberluddite: I hate Wal-Mart as much as anybody else does, but I can't really get too upset about this. If you're going to punish to a business operating in Mexico for paying bribes in order to get things done, then you're going to have to punish . . . well, every business operating in Mexico.

sorry dude - but we passed a law in THIS country that says you play by the rules or you go to jail.

The rules say that paying bribes in order to facilitate what should be the normal course of action (i.e. an official won't give you a permit he is supposed to unless you bribe him) is perfectly legal.

Not according to US laws. You offers bribe in another country, you can go to jail for it in this one.


The Foreign Corrupt Practices Act makes allowances for "facilitating payments," which are exactly what he said.
 
2012-04-25 02:14:38 PM

Shostie: Weaver95: ArkAngel: Weaver95: Cyberluddite: I hate Wal-Mart as much as anybody else does, but I can't really get too upset about this. If you're going to punish to a business operating in Mexico for paying bribes in order to get things done, then you're going to have to punish . . . well, every business operating in Mexico.

sorry dude - but we passed a law in THIS country that says you play by the rules or you go to jail.

The rules say that paying bribes in order to facilitate what should be the normal course of action (i.e. an official won't give you a permit he is supposed to unless you bribe him) is perfectly legal.

Not according to US laws. You offers bribe in another country, you can go to jail for it in this one.

The Foreign Corrupt Practices Act makes allowances for "facilitating payments," which are exactly what he said.


According to our corporate briefing on the matter, we are not to authorize anything that looks like it might could even possibly under any circumstances be considered a bribe. If there's any doubt, we're supposed to call in the lawyers. So no, don't pay out a "facilitating fee" without corporate approval.
 
2012-04-25 02:19:59 PM
WalMart gets the hate where the real issue is foreign countries forcing corporations to offer bribes if they want to be able to conduct business.

Wal Mart doesn't want to bribe people, they want to open WalMarts.
 
2012-04-25 02:20:23 PM

Weaver95: Shostie: Weaver95: ArkAngel: Weaver95: Cyberluddite: I hate Wal-Mart as much as anybody else does, but I can't really get too upset about this. If you're going to punish to a business operating in Mexico for paying bribes in order to get things done, then you're going to have to punish . . . well, every business operating in Mexico.

sorry dude - but we passed a law in THIS country that says you play by the rules or you go to jail.

The rules say that paying bribes in order to facilitate what should be the normal course of action (i.e. an official won't give you a permit he is supposed to unless you bribe him) is perfectly legal.

Not according to US laws. You offers bribe in another country, you can go to jail for it in this one.

The Foreign Corrupt Practices Act makes allowances for "facilitating payments," which are exactly what he said.

According to our corporate briefing on the matter, we are not to authorize anything that looks like it might could even possibly under any circumstances be considered a bribe. If there's any doubt, we're supposed to call in the lawyers. So no, don't pay out a "facilitating fee" without corporate approval.


Weaver, I like you, and I'm really trying to not sound like a dick here, but that's your corporate policy, not the law of the land.
 
2012-04-25 02:20:29 PM
So when will we see Wal-Mart behind bars. I mean corporations are people too, right?
 
2012-04-25 02:23:32 PM

Shostie: Weaver95: Shostie: Weaver95: ArkAngel: Weaver95: Cyberluddite: I hate Wal-Mart as much as anybody else does, but I can't really get too upset about this. If you're going to punish to a business operating in Mexico for paying bribes in order to get things done, then you're going to have to punish . . . well, every business operating in Mexico.

sorry dude - but we passed a law in THIS country that says you play by the rules or you go to jail.

The rules say that paying bribes in order to facilitate what should be the normal course of action (i.e. an official won't give you a permit he is supposed to unless you bribe him) is perfectly legal.

Not according to US laws. You offers bribe in another country, you can go to jail for it in this one.

The Foreign Corrupt Practices Act makes allowances for "facilitating payments," which are exactly what he said.

According to our corporate briefing on the matter, we are not to authorize anything that looks like it might could even possibly under any circumstances be considered a bribe. If there's any doubt, we're supposed to call in the lawyers. So no, don't pay out a "facilitating fee" without corporate approval.

Weaver, I like you, and I'm really trying to not sound like a dick here, but that's your corporate policy, not the law of the land.


Fine, go ahead and offer a facilitation payout...just don't whine to me about it when you end up charged under the corrupt practices law.
 
2012-04-25 02:28:32 PM

Weaver95: Fine, go ahead and offer a facilitation payout...just don't whine to me about it when you end up charged under the corrupt practices law.


Now lets be clear here, I'm not saying that the company can just jump up and say "oh! It was a facilitating payment! It's all good!"

My point is that there's this weird grey area built right into the act itself.

Walmart's legal team is going to be mighty busy over the next couple years trying to fight this off.
 
2012-04-25 02:43:13 PM

Weaver95: Cyberluddite: I hate Wal-Mart as much as anybody else does, but I can't really get too upset about this. If you're going to punish to a business operating in Mexico for paying bribes in order to get things done, then you're going to have to punish . . . well, every business operating in Mexico.

sorry dude - but we passed a law in THIS country that says you play by the rules or you go to jail.


You're going to have to punish the US Government too.
 
2012-04-25 02:52:05 PM
media.kentucky.com
 
2012-04-25 03:18:02 PM
Not surprising - the U.S. Chamber of Commerce is one of the single most destructive forces working against the interests of U.S. citizens and legitimate small-middle sized businesses in existence.

Anything it says will be accepted with great acclaim in DC as being "pro-business, pro-jobs" when in reality it ONLY works to the benefit of a very small handful of enormous mega-corporations' CEO's and not even to the benefit of the company itself.
 
2012-04-25 03:54:01 PM

Shostie: Elandriel: Is recipient of payment a foreign official or direct affiliation/acting on behalf of said official? Do not make payment.

The law allows for "facilitating payments" in foreign countries to prevent projects from being held up on a bureaucrat's desk.


Aren't most actual cases an argument over what constitutes a facilitating payment? It has been awhile since I have looked at this so I could be crazy. I know most companies I have dealt with have internal policies that do not allow facilitating payments to avoid the appearance of impropriety.
 
2012-04-25 04:00:29 PM
RICO their ass.
 
2012-04-25 04:04:07 PM

Cyberluddite: I hate Wal-Mart as much as anybody else does, but I can't really get too upset about this. If you're going to punish to a business operating in Mexico for paying bribes in order to get things done, then you're going to have to punish . . . well, every business operating in Mexico.


Then don't do business in Mexico, duh.
 
2012-04-25 04:07:39 PM
Bribes in Mexico?!?! You dont say.
 
2012-04-25 04:21:46 PM

Shostie: I don't know if I can really fault Walmart that much on this.

The Foreign Corrupt Practices Act is such a weird, draconian piece of legislation.


Yeah.

There are some countries where absolutely nothing can be done without bribing everybody in site. The Russians have no problem with this. The Chinese have no problems with this. Why should an American company lose a contract to a Russian or Chinese country because our guys can't?

Now, an argument could be made that the Mexican Wal*Mart situation was a bit different, but...
 
2012-04-25 04:22:24 PM
Russian or Chinese company, not country.
 
2012-04-25 04:24:49 PM
And in sight, not in site.

Fark needs to enter the 21st century and add a post editing function.
 
2012-04-25 04:28:05 PM
IT'S THE FREE MARKET AT WORK, YA DAMN SOCIALIST HIPPIES!!!
 
2012-04-25 04:29:56 PM

Geotpf: Shostie: I don't know if I can really fault Walmart that much on this.

The Foreign Corrupt Practices Act is such a weird, draconian piece of legislation.

Yeah.

There are some countries where absolutely nothing can be done without bribing everybody in site. The Russians have no problem with this. The Chinese have no problems with this. Why should an American company lose a contract to a Russian or Chinese country because our guys can't?

Now, an argument could be made that the Mexican Wal*Mart situation was a bit different, but...


Geotpf: And in sight, not in site.

Fark needs to enter the 21st century and add a post editing function.


This and This

Anyone getting butt hurt over this issue is overly projecting a false sense of morals in a situation that they don't understand
 
2012-04-25 04:34:24 PM

Cyberluddite: I hate Wal-Mart as much as anybody else does, but I can't really get too upset about this. If you're going to punish to a business operating in Mexico for paying bribes in order to get things done, then you're going to have to punish . . . well, every business operating in Mexico.


This. Third-world nations, and socialist/communist nations do not operate without bribes.
 
2012-04-25 04:37:37 PM

Hugh2d2: IT'S THE FREE MARKET AT WORK, YA DAMN SOCIALIST HIPPIES!!!


Using government bribes as a slight against the free market.. priceless.
 
2012-04-25 04:37:46 PM

Nemo's Brother: Cyberluddite: I hate Wal-Mart as much as anybody else does, but I can't really get too upset about this. If you're going to punish to a business operating in Mexico for paying bribes in order to get things done, then you're going to have to punish . . . well, every business operating in Mexico.

This. Third-world nations, and socialist/communist nations do not operate without bribes.


To be fair, neither does the United States Congress.
 
2012-04-25 04:37:49 PM
Why didn't Wal-Mart just follow the Mexican rule for getting things done your way - Plata O Plomo.
 
2012-04-25 05:13:32 PM
I love that we're at the point where a major corporation can publicly and openly lobby to weaken anti-bribery laws and people aren't getting arrested just for that. "No no, you don't understand, we just want to be able to give people cash and lavish gifts to just short of the point where they would be unduly influenced. You know, because we have so much cash and lavish gifts, it's a real problem for us." Meanwhile I'm breaching like 11 different state ethics clauses if a hardware vendor bring doughnuts during the install of the product we've already purchased.
 
2012-04-25 05:37:53 PM

jayhawk88: I love that we're at the point where a major corporation can publicly and openly lobby to weaken anti-bribery laws and people aren't getting arrested just for that. "No no, you don't understand, we just want to be able to give people cash and lavish gifts to just short of the point where they would be unduly influenced. You know, because we have so much cash and lavish gifts, it's a real problem for us." Meanwhile I'm breaching like 11 different state ethics clauses if a hardware vendor bring doughnuts during the install of the product we've already purchased.


Well, there's your problem.

The vendor should have brought doughnuts for the ethics board as well.
 
2012-04-25 07:24:20 PM
The smart american companies have another company they created or own based in a country without these laws make the bribe for them. You do have to bribe people in some countries if you want to do business there. Whether or not we should be doing business there is an entirely different discussion.
 
2012-04-25 08:03:48 PM
I had to pay $150 court scheduling fee to fight a traffic ticket - I wondered how is this not bribery, since I had a right to a fair trial anyways?
 
2012-04-25 10:11:08 PM
FTA, there's this little gem

"The ILR is spearheading an initiative to amend the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act by reducing liability for companies that bribe foreign officials and exempting companies such as Walmart that have their own compliance programs."

I think this is an excellent idea. I've just appointed myself a traffic compliance officer, and as such I should be exempt from all traffic laws.
 
2012-04-25 11:50:18 PM
Wal-Mart will bribe clergy to get a Chicago store installed, why should it be a surprise that they're caught in Mexico?
 
2012-04-26 12:11:26 AM
bribery in the Mexican bureaucracy? Surely you must be kidding, I've never heard of such a thing!!
 
2012-04-26 12:16:32 AM
www.wnd.com
 
2012-04-26 02:01:57 AM

Wittenberg Dropout: RICO their ass.


Rico Xavier Diego Gonzales, Mexico's toughest D.A.?
 
2012-04-26 05:43:03 AM

dmars: Geotpf: Shostie: I don't know if I can really fault Walmart that much on this.

The Foreign Corrupt Practices Act is such a weird, draconian piece of legislation.

Yeah.

There are some countries where absolutely nothing can be done without bribing everybody in site. The Russians have no problem with this. The Chinese have no problems with this. Why should an American company lose a contract to a Russian or Chinese country because our guys can't?

Now, an argument could be made that the Mexican Wal*Mart situation was a bit different, but...

Geotpf: And in sight, not in site.

Fark needs to enter the 21st century and add a post editing function.

This and This

Anyone getting butt hurt over this issue is overly projecting a false sense of morals in a situation that they don't understand


Kind of like the people who just won't understand that Joe Pervert is really, sincerely in LOVE with that eight year old girl.
 
2012-04-26 06:49:06 AM

dmars:
Anyone getting butt hurt over this issue is overly projecting a false sense of morals in a situation that they don't understand


Chinese suppression - Anyone getting butt hurt over this issue is overly projecting a false sense of morals in a situation that they don't understand.

Female Genital Mutilation - Anyone getting butt hurt over this issue is overly projecting a false sense of morals in a situation that they don't understand

Honor Killings - Anyone getting butt hurt over this issue is overly projecting a false sense of morals in a situation that they don't understand.

Forced underage marriages - Anyone getting butt hurt over this issue is overly projecting a false sense of morals in a situation that they don't understand

Human Trafficking and slavery - Anyone getting butt hurt over this issue is overly projecting a false sense of morals in a situation that they don't understand

State Sectioned Extra Judicial Murder - Anyone getting butt hurt over this issue is overly projecting a false sense of morals in a situation that they don't understand
 
2012-04-26 08:07:09 AM
Considering how unwilling Wal*Mart is to part with any money (Just ask any of
their suppliers how far in arears their accounts always are), I'm shocked they
would make it easier to pay out bribes.
 
2012-04-26 06:27:42 PM

Corporate Self: dmars:
Anyone getting butt hurt over this issue is overly projecting a false sense of morals in a situation that they don't understand

Chinese suppression - Anyone getting butt hurt over this issue is overly projecting a false sense of morals in a situation that they don't understand.

Female Genital Mutilation - Anyone getting butt hurt over this issue is overly projecting a false sense of morals in a situation that they don't understand

Honor Killings - Anyone getting butt hurt over this issue is overly projecting a false sense of morals in a situation that they don't understand.

Forced underage marriages - Anyone getting butt hurt over this issue is overly projecting a false sense of morals in a situation that they don't understand

Human Trafficking and slavery - Anyone getting butt hurt over this issue is overly projecting a false sense of morals in a situation that they don't understand

State Sectioned Extra Judicial Murder - Anyone getting butt hurt over this issue is overly projecting a false sense of morals in a situation that they don't understand


Thank you for proving my point.

If you even suggest that this specific issue(how ALL corporations have to maneuver in some countries in order to have normal business operation) is remotely close to any of those actual atrocities, then you don't understand the situation. Must be nice to live in a world that is so black and white.
 
2012-04-26 07:29:08 PM

dmars: Corporate Self: dmars:
Anyone getting butt hurt over this issue is overly projecting a false sense of morals in a situation that they don't understand

Chinese suppression - Anyone getting butt hurt over this issue is overly projecting a false sense of morals in a situation that they don't understand.

Female Genital Mutilation - Anyone getting butt hurt over this issue is overly projecting a false sense of morals in a situation that they don't understand

Honor Killings - Anyone getting butt hurt over this issue is overly projecting a false sense of morals in a situation that they don't understand.

Forced underage marriages - Anyone getting butt hurt over this issue is overly projecting a false sense of morals in a situation that they don't understand

Human Trafficking and slavery - Anyone getting butt hurt over this issue is overly projecting a false sense of morals in a situation that they don't understand

State Sectioned Extra Judicial Murder - Anyone getting butt hurt over this issue is overly projecting a false sense of morals in a situation that they don't understand

Thank you for proving my point.

If you even suggest that this specific issue(how ALL corporations have to maneuver in some countries in order to have normal business operation) is remotely close to any of those actual atrocities, then you don't understand the situation. Must be nice to live in a world that is so black and white.


Ok Sparky then you would agree with:

The Holocaust - Anyone getting butt hurt over this issue is overly projecting a false sense of morals in a situation that they don't understand

Amazing how some of us have so little humanity. I will let your own words be a testament to your depravity.
 
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