Consider it an inevitable consequence from a society that worships children. I've seen people give others the business because a young boy had scraped knees for crying out loud.

There should be ads telling parents that peanut allergies can be cured with peanuts. Then the annoying and foolish banning of foods in areas could be eliminated. The allergy was probably caused by the parents in the first place because of excess coddling.

EpiPens kill more kids than they save. Epinephrin can cause heart failure and often does. Get a kids heart rate up into the 200s from an allergy and then give them and adrenaline kicks it up even higher. These things should never be given if they kid can still communicate.

That's not the problem they had. I get what they are saying. Anyone with severe allergies to food or bee stings can use an Epi pen. They aren't just for kids. I keep one in my desk at work and one at home and we always take one on vacation because I have severe allergic reactions to almonds and bananas. The lady in the ad says "we are prepared" because they have an Epi pen and implies she can let her kid have a crack at the cake with "who knows what" in it. Well, no, not really. Epi pens don't prevent allergic reactions and they don't stop them. If you have a severe reaction and your breathing passages start to close, the injection of epinephrine temporarily dilates the airways which buys you time for an ambulance to reach you and get you to the ER where they can administer intravenous antihistamines that will help stop the reaction. You're still going to have a reaction to whatever you are allergic to and still need medical treatment, but an Epi pen helps keep you breathing for a bit. So, no, the lady in that ad still needs to screen her son's food just like she would otherwise. I have an Epi pen, but you can be damned sure I'm not going to go over to Galatoire's and help myself to Trout Amandine and Banana's Foster.

Nabb1: Banana's Foster.

Who is banana, and why does he have a foster?

Elandriel: Nabb1: Banana's Foster.

Who is banana, and why does he have a foster?

Not sure why I put that apostrophe in there. I need more coffee, I suppose.

Vodka Zombie: I'm glad I don't have kids. They really seem to fark you up.

Fark almighty, THIS.

I have a severe allergy to bee stings and used to have a rx for an epi-pen but I haven't had one filled in years. I am always mindful of my location and where bees are.

Nabb1: Anyone with severe allergies to food or bee stings can use an Epi pen.

Um no. If your at a risk for heart attack or stroke, they can be very dangerous. Using stats from downunder, there has been one kid under 5 die from allergies in the last 30 years and 2 under the age of 18 (could be 21 or 16 depending on sources) in the last 10. Epipens have killed 9 people since they were introduced.

By all means get one and have it around if there is a chance someone can have a very nasty reaction but follow the directions... watch for the right symptoms first and being freaked out with hives isn't one of them.

Nabb1: Not sure why I put that apostrophe in there. I need more coffee, I suppose.

I hear epinephrine is a real eye opener.

ImThinkin: And this just went green? Really?

"Precious snowflake" rage = lots of clicks.

DON.MAC: Nabb1: Anyone with severe allergies to food or bee stings can use an Epi pen.

Um no. If your at a risk for heart attack or stroke, they can be very dangerous.

Well, sure, but I was trying to dissuade people from thinking this was something that involved just children. Adults - like myself with allergies and no heart problems - are prescribed them as well.

GAT_00: DON.MAC: EpiPens kill more kids than they save. Epinephrin can cause heart failure and often does. Get a kids heart rate up into the 200s from an allergy and then give them and adrenaline kicks it up even higher. These things should never be given if they kid can still communicate.

Yeah, but I remember correctly the instructions when I was given one, you're only supposed to use it when you can no longer breathe as a last resort measure.

Thats too late...
If they are generally freaking out, waiting is better. If you can check their pulse rate and its going down, don't give it. If they start to get groggy or very swollen, then give it. Slight wheezing don't give it but if they are straining to breath, give it. If they are yelling at you to give them the shot, don't. If they can't fight, argue, talk or plead, you should give it to them. Watch pulse and breathing rates and watch for trends that show crashing. High BP isn't going to get any better with the shot. Since you don't have a watch with a second hand, compare it to yours.

They need to breath and have a pulse. Anaphylaxis can stop breathing and the adrenaline can stop the heart. If they are young and healthy the adrenaline probably won't kill them but if then again neither should the allergy.

DON.MAC: EpiPens kill more kids than they save. Epinephrin can cause heart failure and often does. Get a kids heart rate up into the 200s from an allergy and then give them and adrenaline kicks it up even higher. These things should never be given if they kid can still communicate.

I have learned that, during the zombie apocalypse, it is perfectly acceptable to eat pills found in unlabelled bottles located in public restrooms and jab yourself in the leg with large needles found in abandoned subway tunnels. this will never hurt you, and it can only help keep you alive until you make it to the safe room.

that's why I make sure to carry epi pens and large adrenaline needles every where I go. that way, when i'm down to 20% health, I'll be able to make it to the safe room in my basement no matter what happens!

Nabb1: Well, sure, but I was trying to dissuade people from thinking this was something that involved just children. Adults - like myself with allergies and no heart problems - are prescribed them as well.

And you can see why I don't like people treating this stuff like their early morning coffee...

DON.MAC: Nabb1: Well, sure, but I was trying to dissuade people from thinking this was something that involved just children. Adults - like myself with allergies and no heart problems - are prescribed them as well.

And you can see why I don't like people treating this stuff like their early morning coffee...

I've only needed a shot of it once - fifteen years ago. I was blacking out and couldn't talk, and then I was completely tweaking. If you've ever had to have a shot of that stuff, you would agree that it is definitely NOT an viable alternative to avoiding the food that triggers your reaction in the first place.

Weaver95: that's why I make sure to carry epi pens and large adrenaline needles every where I go. that way, when i'm down to 20% health, I'll be able to make it to the safe room in my basement no matter what happens!

And I bet you don't have a cardiac needle do you?
Once the epipin stops your heart because you smelled way too much white powder you found in restrooms and then got stung by a zombee bee, you will need to dump the adrenaline right into your stopped heart and then you'll be thankful for the magnum 44 of syringes. There are details on several m*a*s*h reruns.

DON.MAC: EpiPens kill more kids than they save. Epinephrin can cause heart failure and often does. Get a kids heart rate up into the 200s from an allergy and then give them and adrenaline kicks it up even higher. These things should never be given if they kid can still communicate.

but...Left4Dead 2 said that large shots of adrenaline are GOOD FOR ME!!!!!!

DON.MAC: Weaver95: that's why I make sure to carry epi pens and large adrenaline needles every where I go. that way, when i'm down to 20% health, I'll be able to make it to the safe room in my basement no matter what happens!

And I bet you don't have a cardiac needle do you?
Once the epipin stops your heart because you smelled way too much white powder you found in restrooms and then got stung by a zombee bee, you will need to dump the adrenaline right into your stopped heart and then you'll be thankful for the magnum 44 of syringes. There are details on several m*a*s*h reruns.

I am totally gonna stock up on old MASH reruns. i'll be the best equipped survivor in the zombie apocalypse EVAR!

Can someone explain what's with all the allergies with kids these days? I don't remember anything like this when I was a child. Sure, kids had allergies here and there but nothing to this extent.

Benevolent Misanthrope: Vodka Zombie: I'm glad I don't have kids. They really seem to fark you up.

Fark almighty, THIS.

Actually it's the other parents.

The one the gives you the stink eye for letting your kid bound through the puddle giggling all the way, as they are trying to keep theirs from getting their boots wet.
And only if you let them get to you.

this is what life looks like.

coco ebert: Can someone explain what's with all the allergies with kids these days? I don't remember anything like this when I was a child. Sure, kids had allergies here and there but nothing to this extent.

Maybe I can point you in this direction:

sno man: The one the gives you the stink eye for letting your kid bound through the puddle giggling all the way, as they are trying to keep theirs from getting their boots wet.

Nabb1: I've only needed a shot of it once - fifteen years ago. I was blacking out and couldn't talk, and then I was completely tweaking. If you've ever had to have a shot of that stuff, you would agree that it is definitely NOT an viable alternative to avoiding the food that triggers your reaction in the first place.

I had a bad allergic reaction to a drug and the nurse knew something was wrong even before I got the whole shot. She hit the panic button and the others came in. I remember them talking about which ones would get which crash carts which were on different floors and the other nurse was saying the pulse was too fast to count but saying 150... 170... and up past 250 before I don't remember any more.

DON.MAC: GAT_00: DON.MAC: EpiPens kill more kids than they save. Epinephrin can cause heart failure and often does. Get a kids heart rate up into the 200s from an allergy and then give them and adrenaline kicks it up even higher. These things should never be given if they kid can still communicate.

Yeah, but I remember correctly the instructions when I was given one, you're only supposed to use it when you can no longer breathe as a last resort measure.

Thats too late...
If they are generally freaking out, waiting is better. If you can check their pulse rate and its going down, don't give it. If they start to get groggy or very swollen, then give it. Slight wheezing don't give it but if they are straining to breath, give it. If they are yelling at you to give them the shot, don't. If they can't fight, argue, talk or plead, you should give it to them. Watch pulse and breathing rates and watch for trends that show crashing. High BP isn't going to get any better with the shot. Since you don't have a watch with a second hand, compare it to yours.

They need to breath and have a pulse. Anaphylaxis can stop breathing and the adrenaline can stop the heart. If they are young and healthy the adrenaline probably won't kill them but if then again neither should the allergy.

Jesus H. Christ this is absolutely horrible, misleading information. I can say this, because I am a board certified, fellowship trained allergist. Stop talking out of your ass.

The number one risk factor for death due to anaphylaxis is lack of or delay of administration of epinephrine in the field. This has been a consistent finding in numerous studies. Waiting until you are moribund is a huge mistake.

The indications for epinephrine administration in a patient with documented allergy to peanut, tree nuts, or bee venom are difficulty breathing, difficulty swallowing, or lightheadedness and dizziness with or without a documented exposure to a known trigger.

Epinephrine administration is exceedingly safe in patients without significant cardiac disease or other atherosclerotic disease.

Now STFU and go away

coco ebert: Can someone explain what's with all the allergies with kids these days? I don't remember anything like this when I was a child. Sure, kids had allergies here and there but nothing to this extent.

No one is really sure. Years ago, the American Academy of Pediatrics was telling parents to slowly introduce foods to children, and no peanut products until like age two. You did one new food a week, three to four days in a row. (They still say no honey until age one because of botulism, not allergies, and no eggs either). Then, between our first (who turns four in October) and our second child (turns two in July), they reversed themselves and were encouraging us to introduce foods as soon as possible and as many as possible. So, our daughter has had peanut butter for months whereas our son didn't have it until age two. Now they think the sooner you introduce them to foods the better. For the most part, the medical profession still understands very little about food allergies. But it may be all those years of parents waiting too long to introduce certain foods to kids has caused this. When I was really small, I was allergic to a lot of things I can eat now (tomatoes, fish) but could eat things I can't anymore (bananas). It's very strange.

Nabb1: coco ebert: Can someone explain what's with all the allergies with kids these days? I don't remember anything like this when I was a child. Sure, kids had allergies here and there but nothing to this extent.

No one is really sure. Years ago, the American Academy of Pediatrics was telling parents to slowly introduce foods to children, and no peanut products until like age two. You did one new food a week, three to four days in a row. (They still say no honey until age one because of botulism, not allergies, and no eggs either). Then, between our first (who turns four in October) and our second child (turns two in July), they reversed themselves and were encouraging us to introduce foods as soon as possible and as many as possible. So, our daughter has had peanut butter for months whereas our son didn't have it until age two. Now they think the sooner you introduce them to foods the better. For the most part, the medical profession still understands very little about food allergies. But it may be all those years of parents waiting too long to introduce certain foods to kids has caused this. When I was really small, I was allergic to a lot of things I can eat now (tomatoes, fish) but could eat things I can't anymore (bananas). It's very strange.

It's strange. I wonder if preservatives in food products have something to do with this? In Turkey, where I'm from, there isn't really this allergy problem with kids as far as I've heard anecdotally. People generally don't use readymade foods but prepare food with basic ingredients.

Nabb1: coco ebert: Can someone explain what's with all the allergies with kids these days? I don't remember anything like this when I was a child. Sure, kids had allergies here and there but nothing to this extent.

No one is really sure. Years ago, the American Academy of Pediatrics was telling parents to slowly introduce foods to children, and no peanut products until like age two. You did one new food a week, three to four days in a row. (They still say no honey until age one because of botulism, not allergies, and no eggs either). Then, between our first (who turns four in October) and our second child (turns two in July), they reversed themselves and were encouraging us to introduce foods as soon as possible and as many as possible. So, our daughter has had peanut butter for months whereas our son didn't have it until age two. Now they think the sooner you introduce them to foods the better. For the most part, the medical profession still understands very little about food allergies. But it may be all those years of parents waiting too long to introduce certain foods to kids has caused this. When I was really small, I was allergic to a lot of things I can eat now (tomatoes, fish) but could eat things I can't anymore (bananas). It's very strange.

I would bet your banana issue is oral allergy syndrome.

There are more true food allergies these days, but not to the epidemic degree some people think. In reality, there is an epidemic of food testing, particularly serum testing, which has very high false positive results. A recent british study found that 80% of kids labeled as peanut allergic weren't. That's a big number

Plus, now the big labs that run the tests market them to primary care physicians who have no idea how to properly select patients for testing and no idea how to interpret the results. I spend way more time telling patients that they don't have food allergies than seeing real ones.

Real peanut allergy is scary shiat, but there is so much hype, hyperbole, and false information out there that the backlash is understandable.

mysticcat: I would bet your banana issue is oral allergy syndrome.

The last time I ate bananas, I almost stopped breathing. It was one of the worst reactions I've ever had. That was about twenty years ago.

mysticcat: Jesus H. Christ this is absolutely horrible, misleading information. I can say this, because I am a board certified, fellowship trained allergist. Stop talking out of your ass.

Board certified... great. That is in a field that has a success rate almost as bad as dermatologist.
Your own people can't even agree. The comments I gave came from the US NIH and the major medical groups in Australia.

What we know is early administration of epipens kill and not even using them kills less. You have a valid point to argue about what "early administration" means. I would say a kid freaking out because his mother freaking out because he might have had something with peanuts is would be classified as early administration that is premature and a greater risk than not giving it.

Oh wait, you sort of hinted at that:
mysticcat: Epinephrine administration is exceedingly safe in patients without significant cardiac disease or other atherosclerotic disease.

Thats why its killed 9 in fewer years than anaphylaxis has killed 3 one just one study group.

DON.MAC: mysticcat: Jesus H. Christ this is absolutely horrible, misleading information. I can say this, because I am a board certified, fellowship trained allergist. Stop talking out of your ass.

Board certified... great. That is in a field that has a success rate almost as bad as dermatologist.
Your own people can't even agree. The comments I gave came from the US NIH and the major medical groups in Australia.

What we know is early administration of epipens kill and not even using them kills less. You have a valid point to argue about what "early administration" means. I would say a kid freaking out because his mother freaking out because he might have had something with peanuts is would be classified as early administration that is premature and a greater risk than not giving it.

Oh wait, you sort of hinted at that:
mysticcat: Epinephrine administration is exceedingly safe in patients without significant cardiac disease or other atherosclerotic disease.

Thats why its killed 9 in fewer years than anaphylaxis has killed 3 one just one study group.

Australian anaphylaxis deaths Might want to recheck your sources.

Perhaps you're right: My ten years of medical training followed by ten years of practice make me much less knowledgeable than some rando on a message board. I'll go ask Jenny McCarthy what she thinks.

Nabb1: mysticcat: I would bet your banana issue is oral allergy syndrome.

The last time I ate bananas, I almost stopped breathing. It was one of the worst reactions I've ever had. That was about twenty years ago.

That's crazy rare

Nabb1: I was allergic to a lot of things I can eat now (tomatoes, fish) but could eat things I can't anymore (bananas)

There was a thread a few days ago that someone was allergic to a spice. People aren't allergic to compounds that are that complex. They are allergic to proteins that happen to be a part of it. Its the same with you and bananas. There is a chemical (most likely a protein) that sets you off. Same with cats but there are 3 well know proteins in their saliva that drive people nuts and people who are allergic to cats will have a sensitivity to one of the 3 and their reactions will depend on which of the 3 it is. With cats you might find one that isn't a problem but with bananas, there are about 6 being sold and all the other billions are clones so any one type will have the same proteins. If you can find the protein and it can be isolated, you can get a simple test to verify that is causing the problem. Once that is identified, then you can try de-sensitivity procedures which used to be "allergy shots" but now can consist of a few other things such as drops you put under your tongue every morning. Just watch it because these techniques that do work have also be been used in homeopathy (which is 99.999+% bunk unless they accidentally isolate something your sensitive to in amounts large enough to work as an allergy shot)

mysticcat: The last time I ate bananas, I almost stopped breathing. It was one of the worst reactions I've ever had. That was about twenty years ago.

That's crazy rare

Oh, it gets better. After I had a really bad incident, I got tested at Tulane Hospital by one of their senior immunologists who had spent decades studying allergies and had published in a variety of journals and he said I was the only person he had ever tested who tested positive for a banana allergy but did not have a latex allergy. He said almost all of his staff who could not use latex gloves also had some kind of allergy to bananas.

mysticcat: Australian anaphylaxis deaths Might want to recheck your sources.

Check the ages and compare that to the deaths caused by epipens to under 21s and helicopter parents.
But I'm ok with your full stats because they cover all reported deaths in the country for a decade. In 10 years 7 were food. Just 7. The stings cover venomous spiders and venomous snakes (in at least one area). Did you see the "drugs" and "suspected drugs"? They are a mix between things like Penicillin and cut smack . The pens have kill 9 kids and I don't know how many adults. It could be 0 and it could be more.
There is a time and place for them but after a kid with an unknown heart problem whos mom thought he might be allergic to peanuts and he had a cookie isn't the time to take out the epipen. Wait unit hes showing some real sign of trouble.

I used to try to teach medical students about hard math problems that they would need to deal with. Most of them never could understand simple things like the complexities of long half life. I don't care how many years of experience you have since its immaterial. In your profession, the only thing that matters is how many people you fixed and the industry isn't very good at keeping key metrics.

GAT_00: DON.MAC: People aren't allergic to compounds that are that complex.

Dude, shut up.

Why the animosity?
Allergies are to very specific things. The finer they can be isolated, the more precisely and successfully they can be treated.

If you take things like tree pollen, you will find that the basic thing you breath in has sharp bits that scrape up the nose and lungs making them more sensitive to grass or moulds that are active at the same time. Saying your allergic to the tree pollen or trying to treat you for that is pointless because that isn't the allergy. The finer trigger needs to be found and then you can be treated for that with a high success rate. There is also the chance that the finer trigger won't bother you unless the irritant hits you first. That is very common in smoking related allergies.

GAT_00: DON.MAC: Why the animosity?

Because you're trying to tell an allergist how allergies really work.

...and it's hilarious....

GAT_00:
Also, do those go bad? Like, do I have to go get new ones every year even though I've never needed to touch the old ones?

The chemicals break down over time. The expire date should be at least 2 years away unless you bought it on sale.

2 years expire date means that something like 95% of the drug is still active after the expire date if its in bad conditions (too cool or warm). If it got very hot (glove box) or very cold (ice fishing cabin) then it could be not so good much sooner (and read the fine print) or inert.

There is also the risk that a preservative only works for so long as well.

If you kept this stuff in your wine cellar, it could be good for 50 years. The only way to be sure is to know what all the stuff means on the small print that the doctor gets to see, not the stuff folded 200 times in the package.

GAT_00: DON.MAC: Why the animosity?

Because you're trying to tell an allergist how allergies really work.

And I've been dealing with the chemistry behind how they work for a two decades before he got out of med school.

GAT_00: DON.MAC: Why the animosity?

Because you're trying to tell an allergist how allergies really work.

And as long as you've been on FARK, this surprises you?

DON.MAC: GAT_00: DON.MAC: Why the animosity?

Because you're trying to tell an allergist how allergies really work.

And I've been dealing with the chemistry behind how they work for a two decades before he got out of med school.

Well, in that case, this could be an informative debate. As long as I've been on FARK, this surprises me.

GAT_00: mysticcat: My ten years of medical training followed by ten years of practice make me much less knowledgeable than some rando on a message board. I'll go ask Jenny McCarthy what she thinks.

Hehe. Hey, random question if you don't mind. I was prescribed an epi-pen by my new allergist, which surprised me because my old one never did. Is that standard practice? Don't have a history of massive reactions, though I refuse to mow the grass anymore because when I do, the only breaths I can get are shallow with massive wheezing, but that's easily avoided, and it's always fixed with a shower an emergency inhaler.

Also, do those go bad? Like, do I have to go get new ones every year even though I've never needed to touch the old ones?

Some allergists prescribe epi-pens for their shot patients. Most don't. I don't routinely. Apart from that, unless you have a food allergy or venom allergy you shouldn't need one-insert disclaimer here, ymmv.

Epinephrine potency degrades significantly after a year.

DON.MAC: The finer they can be isolated, the more precisely and successfully they can be treated That's actually true.....


DON.MAC: Saying your allergic to the tree pollen or trying to treat you for that is pointless because that isn't the allergy. .....but that is complete rubbish. You can demonstrate specific IgE directed at tree pollen and you can induce mast cell degranulation in sensitive individuals by drizzling tree pollen in their noses. You can desensitize someone using crude tree pollen extract and demonstrate immunologic changes and decreased sensitivity to tree pollen.

This is turning into a special olympics debate.