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(Yahoo)   Rural kids, parents angry about Labor Dept. rule banning farm chores. City kids still have green light to sell drugs, their bodies and stolen car stereos   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 372
    More: Asinine, Labor Secretary Hilda Solis, Department of Labor, FFA, public comment, American farmers, farms, American Farm Bureau, farm chores  
•       •       •

2684 clicks; posted to Politics » on 25 Apr 2012 at 10:33 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-25 11:00:07 AM  

spiderpaz: I'd like to preface this by saying that I'm a Democrat and I don't support curbing child labor laws or anything crazy teabaggers might say.

This country, incrementally is trying to legislate away an entire way of life by making it prohibitively expensive, and impossible to navigate all the regs and bureaucracy. Everybody is always talking about the phony wars on religion, Christmas, guns, church, blah blah, etc. But there is actually a real war on rural life as it has been for hundreds of years. The eventual result will be all American farms and ranches being heavy machined, large corporate operations, and a tremendous transfer of land from the middle class to the wealthy.


What do you think BigAg and Monsanto have been doing for 20 years?
 
2012-04-25 11:00:46 AM  

EWreckedSean: Children account for about 20 percent of all farm fatalities


And that's a GOOD thing for you? Man, you are one f*cked up piece of sh*t
 
2012-04-25 11:00:59 AM  

EWreckedSean: Facts aren't your friends are they?

Children account for about 20 percent of all farm fatalities


How many dead children would be enough for you to care?
 
2012-04-25 11:00:59 AM  

James!: DozeNutz: James!: DozeNutz: Literally banning farmers from having their kids work on the farm.

Nope, look again.

Ok, semantics. Banning them from working on parts of the farm... Better now? Its still stupid, and I'm sure you think its dumb too. But you wouldn't let partisan politics get in the way of that now would you?

Still nope, look again.


Shh. Reading is hard.
 
2012-04-25 11:01:11 AM  
Manufactured outrage along the lines of "What about the small farmers / small businessmen" where the economic advocates and advantages really go to big business and big agriculture.

Current loopholes in labor law allows the children of migrant workers to be migrant workers themselves.

At least 90% of the amount of farmwork performed by children is done by the children of hired low cost laborers.
 
2012-04-25 11:01:21 AM  

kingoomieiii: EWreckedSean: James!: Headso: Big ag says thanks! Making the small family farm even less profitable is great!

If your business can't get by without exploiting child labor perhaps you have a larger problem than "Big ag".

So now a family farm is exploiting child labor?

YOUR OWN CHILDREN ARE EXEMPT FROM THE RULE. SO NO.

I don't blame you, though, it IS easier to get mad at shiat when you ignore half of it.


Well as the article claims the exact opposite, why don't you source it.

FTFA: The Department of Labor is poised to put the finishing touches on a rule that would apply child-labor laws to children working on family farms, prohibiting them from performing a list of jobs on their own families' land.
 
2012-04-25 11:03:25 AM  

Lost Thought 00: EWreckedSean: Children account for about 20 percent of all farm fatalities

And that's a GOOD thing for you? Man, you are one f*cked up piece of sh*t


People die moron. It's a fact of life. I can go find you statistics for the number of kids who die being hit by a car playing in front of the family house if you want too.
 
2012-04-25 11:03:54 AM  
Is it still okay to use my foster children?
 
2012-04-25 11:05:23 AM  
Wow EWS is working overtime to top idiocy records he already holds with this thread.

Whar Popcorn?
 
2012-04-25 11:05:46 AM  

EWreckedSean: Children account for about 20 percent of all farm fatalities


Only 20%? Well, I guess that makes all the difference in the world.
 
2012-04-25 11:05:53 AM  

TwoHead: EWreckedSean: Facts aren't your friends are they?

Children account for about 20 percent of all farm fatalities

How many dead children would be enough for you to care?


Won't somebody think of the children? Really? Children die in accidents no matter what they do. So we should deprive millions of people of learning a valuable skill while growing up because occasionally there are accidents?
 
2012-04-25 11:05:55 AM  

EWreckedSean:
Well as the article claims the exact opposite, why don't you source it.

FTFA: The Department of Labor is poised to put the finishing touches on a rule that would apply child-labor laws to children working on family farms, prohibiting them from performing a list of jobs on their own families' land.


Bare assertion is bare.
 
2012-04-25 11:06:04 AM  

James!: Headso: James!: Headso: Big ag says thanks! Making the small family farm even less profitable is great!

If your business can't get by without exploiting child labor perhaps you have a larger problem than "Big ag".

children working a family farm goes back as far as farming, "exploiting" is a charged word.

No, son. You lost your arm because of tradition! Doesn't that make it all better?


So no bike riding, skateboarding, sking, hockey, anything dangerous? or just helping on the farm?
 
2012-04-25 11:06:05 AM  
t would prohibit farmworkers under age 16 from participating in the cultivation, harvesting and curing of tobacco

I can understand a lot of the regs but this one I just cannot think what would be the reason. We dont want kids to smoke?
 
2012-04-25 11:06:59 AM  

James!: DozeNutz: James!: DozeNutz: Literally banning farmers from having their kids work on the farm.

Nope, look again.

Ok, semantics. Banning them from working on parts of the farm... Better now? Its still stupid, and I'm sure you think its dumb too. But you wouldn't let partisan politics get in the way of that now would you?

Still nope, look again.


FTA: Under the rules, children under 18 could no longer work "in the storing, marketing and transporting of farm product raw materials."

What am I missing? Maybe you should look again, when you take your head out of your ass.
 
2012-04-25 11:07:22 AM  

brerrabbit: Aarontology: Settle down hillbillies, you'll be getting your government welfare farm check soon enough.

As one of those hillbillies, I actually agree with banning kids from those sights listed. As far as transporting farm raw materials, I think that might be a bit broad.

Uhm, small farmers do not get those welfare checks.


As I understand it, the big ag-businesses like Monsanto get the largest subsidy checks. Small farmers are screwed.

That said, I find it interesting that ya'll consider the source unreliable. I have to admit, as I read the article, I thought "This new set of rules seems to make as much sense as the government making it against the law for me to require my kids to clean their own rooms."

Now, thanks to other posters, I'm aware that there may be more to the issue than is revealed in the article.
 
2012-04-25 11:07:33 AM  

EWreckedSean: Lost Thought 00: EWreckedSean: Children account for about 20 percent of all farm fatalities

And that's a GOOD thing for you? Man, you are one f*cked up piece of sh*t

People die moron. It's a fact of life. I can go find you statistics for the number of kids who die being hit by a car playing in front of the family house if you want too.


If 20% of all steel worker deaths were children, would you not be upset? Why is farming suddenly exempt from normal common decency to protect life?
 
2012-04-25 11:07:40 AM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: EWreckedSean: Children account for about 20 percent of all farm fatalities

Only 20%? Well, I guess that makes all the difference in the world.


When he claims it is half, it is a huge difference.

100 kids died last year in farming accidents. 175,000 died in car accidents. They are more likely to die on the drive to summer camp than on their farms working.
 
2012-04-25 11:08:30 AM  

DozeNutz: James!: DozeNutz: James!: DozeNutz: Literally banning farmers from having their kids work on the farm.

Nope, look again.

Ok, semantics. Banning them from working on parts of the farm... Better now? Its still stupid, and I'm sure you think its dumb too. But you wouldn't let partisan politics get in the way of that now would you?

Still nope, look again.

FTA: Under the rules, children under 18 could no longer work "in the storing, marketing and transporting of farm product raw materials."

What am I missing? Maybe you should look again, when you take your head out of your ass.


You shouldn't be mad at me. You should be mad at the Daily Caller for giving you bad information. The rules have been amended to allow you to work your own children. You just can't hire someone else's children to do those jobs.
 
2012-04-25 11:08:41 AM  
bike riding is pretty much exactly the same as operating a hay baler

besides a few more deaths and mutilations will teach those children personal responsibility and furthermore
 
2012-04-25 11:08:43 AM  
Frothy rhetoric aside, this (the original proposal, which is being reproposed) just doesn't seem all that controversial. No "family farm" needs young children doing this work, and I speak as someone who grew up on a subsistence farm.
 
2012-04-25 11:08:51 AM  

Lost Thought 00: EWreckedSean: Lost Thought 00: EWreckedSean: Children account for about 20 percent of all farm fatalities

And that's a GOOD thing for you? Man, you are one f*cked up piece of sh*t

People die moron. It's a fact of life. I can go find you statistics for the number of kids who die being hit by a car playing in front of the family house if you want too.

If 20% of all steel worker deaths were children, would you not be upset? Why is farming suddenly exempt from normal common decency to protect life?


Because having chores on the family farm isn't remotely the same thing as being shipped off to a steal mill?
 
2012-04-25 11:09:22 AM  

EWreckedSean: FTFA: The Department of Labor is poised to put the finishing touches on a rule that would apply child-labor laws to children working on family farms, prohibiting them from performing a list of jobs on their own families' land.


From the DoL:

"On February 1, 2012, the Department announced that it will re-propose the portion of its regulation on child labor in agriculture interpreting the "parental exemption." The parental exemption allows children of any age who are employed by their parent, or a person standing in the place of a parent, to perform any job on a farm owned or operated by their parent or such person standing in the place of a parent."

http://www.dol.gov/whd/CL/AG_NPRM.htm

I guess you can trust an article from Daily Make Shiat Up if you want, but you can't expect everyone to be stupid enough to do that.
 
2012-04-25 11:09:47 AM  

spiderpaz: I'd like to preface this by saying that I'm a Democrat and I don't support curbing child labor laws or anything crazy teabaggers might say.

This country, incrementally is trying to legislate away an entire way of life by making it prohibitively expensive, and impossible to navigate all the regs and bureaucracy. Everybody is always talking about the phony wars on religion, Christmas, guns, church, blah blah, etc. But there is actually a real war on rural life as it has been for hundreds of years. The eventual result will be all American farms and ranches being heavy machined, large corporate operations, and a tremendous transfer of land from the middle class to the wealthy.


F*cking economies of scale... how do they work?

Hint: They have little to do with legislators or bureaucrats
 
2012-04-25 11:09:48 AM  

Headso: James!: Headso: James!: Headso: Big ag says thanks! Making the small family farm even less profitable is great!

If your business can't get by without exploiting child labor perhaps you have a larger problem than "Big ag".

children working a family farm goes back as far as farming, "exploiting" is a charged word.

No, son. You lost your arm because of tradition! Doesn't that make it all better?

So no bike riding, skateboarding, sking, hockey, anything dangerous? or just helping on the farm?


Not being able to run a thresher is THE VERY SAME as not being able to ride a bike.

You guys realize that the slippery slope is a logical fallacy not a great way to make a point, right?
 
2012-04-25 11:10:34 AM  

EWreckedSean: Monkeyhouse Zendo: EWreckedSean: Children account for about 20 percent of all farm fatalities

Only 20%? Well, I guess that makes all the difference in the world.

When he claims it is half, it is a huge difference.

100 kids died last year in farming accidents. 175,000 died in car accidents. They are more likely to die on the drive to summer camp than on their farms working.


What those numbers don't figure in is the per capita rate. For instance, there's a hell of a lot fewer farming children than children in cars.
 
2012-04-25 11:10:35 AM  

EWreckedSean: Monkeyhouse Zendo: EWreckedSean: Children account for about 20 percent of all farm fatalities

Only 20%? Well, I guess that makes all the difference in the world.

When he claims it is half, it is a huge difference.

100 kids died last year in farming accidents. 175,000 died in car accidents. They are more likely to die on the drive to summer camp than on their farms working.


What's the total number of children working on farms versus the total number of children who ride in a car on any given day? What number of children received serious injury as a result of farm work?
 
2012-04-25 11:10:42 AM  

Jim_Callahan:
A married couple with 20 acres, a tractor, and a cow do not have a goddamned grain elevator, and are still exempted from labor laws including child labor and minimum wage laws. It's exactly the same as how children are allowed to darn their own socks but aren't allowed to operate industrial electric looms that put out a hundred square yards a second.


20 acres isn't a farm, it is someones hobby. In the middle of the country a family farm can be rather large with a dozen small grain bins and not have a single employee other than immediate family.
 
2012-04-25 11:11:06 AM  

Saiga410: t would prohibit farmworkers under age 16 from participating in the cultivation, harvesting and curing of tobacco

I can understand a lot of the regs but this one I just cannot think what would be the reason. We dont want kids to smoke?


Handling raw tobacco is dangerous. The farm workers who work on mass tobacco harvests all need to be regular smokers because anyone without a significant tolerance built up can get really sick due to chemical toxicity.
 
2012-04-25 11:11:14 AM  

Portia: EWreckedSean: Monkeyhouse Zendo: EWreckedSean: Children account for about 20 percent of all farm fatalities

Only 20%? Well, I guess that makes all the difference in the world.

When he claims it is half, it is a huge difference.

100 kids died last year in farming accidents. 175,000 died in car accidents. They are more likely to die on the drive to summer camp than on their farms working.

What's the total number of children working on farms versus the total number of children who ride in a car on any given day? What number of children received serious injury as a result of farm work?


1 second off...so close.
 
2012-04-25 11:11:43 AM  

RedPhoenix122: EWreckedSean: Monkeyhouse Zendo: EWreckedSean: Children account for about 20 percent of all farm fatalities

Only 20%? Well, I guess that makes all the difference in the world.

When he claims it is half, it is a huge difference.

100 kids died last year in farming accidents. 175,000 died in car accidents. They are more likely to die on the drive to summer camp than on their farms working.

What those numbers don't figure in is the per capita rate. For instance, there's a hell of a lot fewer farming children than children in cars.


Simul-post! You beat me by a second.
 
2012-04-25 11:11:54 AM  

EWreckedSean: Lost Thought 00: EWreckedSean: Lost Thought 00: EWreckedSean: Children account for about 20 percent of all farm fatalities

And that's a GOOD thing for you? Man, you are one f*cked up piece of sh*t

People die moron. It's a fact of life. I can go find you statistics for the number of kids who die being hit by a car playing in front of the family house if you want too.

If 20% of all steel worker deaths were children, would you not be upset? Why is farming suddenly exempt from normal common decency to protect life?

Because having chores on the family farm isn't remotely the same thing as being shipped off to a steal mill?


The proposed regulations would not apply to children working on farms owned by their parents.
 
2012-04-25 11:12:08 AM  

EWreckedSean: Well as the article claims the exact opposite, why don't you source it.

FTFA: The Department of Labor is poised to put the finishing touches on a rule that would apply child-labor laws to children working on family farms, prohibiting them from performing a list of jobs on their own families' land.


Yahoo's bit is incorrect.

From the United States Department of Farking Labor,

WASHINGTON - The U.S. Department of Labor is proposing revisions to child labor regulations that will strengthen the safety requirements for young workers employed in agriculture and related fields. The agricultural hazardous occupations orders under the Fair Labor Standards Act that bar young workers from certain tasks have not been updated since they were promulgated in 1970.

The department is proposing updates based on the enforcement experiences of its Wage and Hour Division, recommendations made by the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health, and a commitment to bring parity between the rules for young workers employed in agricultural jobs and the more stringent rules that apply to those employed in nonagricultural workplaces. The proposed regulations would not apply to children working on farms owned by their parents.


Link
 
2012-04-25 11:12:21 AM  

EWreckedSean: Won't somebody think of the children? Really? Children die in accidents no matter what they do. So we should deprive millions of people of learning a valuable skill while growing up because occasionally there are accidents?


Dude, I grew up on a small farm. When I went to college one of my girlfriends commented that she'd never seen someone with so many scars (I think I was 20 at the time). I never really thought about it since I'd picked them up over years of accidents but, looking back, I realize just how much more dangerous my day to day life was when compared to other kids my age. It's not occasionally. Injuries of varying severity happen all the time in the course of farm work.
 
2012-04-25 11:12:33 AM  

RedPhoenix122: Portia: EWreckedSean: Monkeyhouse Zendo: EWreckedSean: Children account for about 20 percent of all farm fatalities

Only 20%? Well, I guess that makes all the difference in the world.

When he claims it is half, it is a huge difference.

100 kids died last year in farming accidents. 175,000 died in car accidents. They are more likely to die on the drive to summer camp than on their farms working.

What's the total number of children working on farms versus the total number of children who ride in a car on any given day? What number of children received serious injury as a result of farm work?

1 second off...so close.


And a second off again. WTF, are you reading my mind?
 
2012-04-25 11:12:40 AM  
The parental exemption allows children of any age who are employed by their parent, or a person standing in the place of a parent, to perform any job on a farm owned or operated by their parent or such person standing in the place of a parent

Good lord if you thumb-dicked shiat wizard trolls had even the tiniest ability for introspection, you'd pretty much not post ever again after this thread.
 
2012-04-25 11:13:24 AM  

Portia: And a second off again. WTF, are you reading my mind?


No, just that awesome.

My wife gets mad when I finish ahead of her.
 
2012-04-25 11:13:41 AM  

TwoHead: EWreckedSean: FTFA: The Department of Labor is poised to put the finishing touches on a rule that would apply child-labor laws to children working on family farms, prohibiting them from performing a list of jobs on their own families' land.

From the DoL:

"On February 1, 2012, the Department announced that it will re-propose the portion of its regulation on child labor in agriculture interpreting the "parental exemption." The parental exemption allows children of any age who are employed by their parent, or a person standing in the place of a parent, to perform any job on a farm owned or operated by their parent or such person standing in the place of a parent."

http://www.dol.gov/whd/CL/AG_NPRM.htm

I guess you can trust an article from Daily Make Shiat Up if you want, but you can't expect everyone to be stupid enough to do that.


Cherry picking is fun. Quote the whole thing:

On February 1, 2012, the Department announced that it will re-propose the portion of its regulation on child labor in agriculture interpreting the "parental exemption." The parental exemption allows children of any age who are employed by their parent, or a person standing in the place of a parent, to perform any job on a farm owned or operated by their parent or such person standing in the place of a parent. The re-proposal process will seek comments and inputs as to how the department can comply with statutory requirements to protect children, while respecting rural traditions. The re-proposed portion of the rule is expected to be published for public comment by early summer. The department will continue to review the comments received regarding the remaining portions of the proposed rule for inclusion in a final rule.

They are not proposing to exempt family.
 
2012-04-25 11:14:04 AM  

Jackson Herring: The parental exemption allows children of any age who are employed by their parent, or a person standing in the place of a parent, to perform any job on a farm owned or operated by their parent or such person standing in the place of a parent

Good lord if you thumb-dicked shiat wizard trolls had even the tiniest ability for introspection, you'd pretty much not post ever again after this thread.


henpantha.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-04-25 11:14:20 AM  

RedPhoenix122: What those numbers don't figure in is the per capita rate. For instance, there's a hell of a lot fewer farming children than children in cars.


But, but, more people died in California this year than Iraq, and they're the same size.
 
2012-04-25 11:14:44 AM  
i.imgur.com
 
2012-04-25 11:15:31 AM  

HairBolus: Manufactured outrage along the lines of "What about the small farmers / small businessmen" where the economic advocates and advantages really go to big business and big agriculture.

Current loopholes in labor law allows the children of migrant workers to be migrant workers themselves.

At least 90% of the amount of farmwork performed by children is done by the children of hired low cost laborers.


That's a good point and one that did not occur to me while I was reading the article. I was distracted by implications that children wouldn't be able to work on their parents own land and that 4-H would cease to exist.
 
2012-04-25 11:15:52 AM  

kingoomieiii: But, but, more people died in California this year than Iraq, and they're the same size.


So why are we in either place?
 
2012-04-25 11:16:12 AM  

EWreckedSean: They are not proposing to exempt family.


"According to the Department, a new "parental exemption" rule is expected to be proposed this summer. Today's announcement only applies to that portion of the new farm labor rules that considers the "parental exemption."
The re-proposed rule reverts back to prior regulations, said Labor Department officials today, and uses broader language used before the 2011 proposals that include parents who are partial owners of an agricultural operation instead of only including whole owners." (source)

You're a farking toolbox. The re-proposal is to strengthen the parental exemption, not eliminate it. How stupid can you be?
 
2012-04-25 11:16:46 AM  
I can imagine EWS and some of the others in here arguing for child labor rights in factories around the turn of the century. It really sounds just as silly as that to be outraged over an attempt to provide minimal protection to minors from a handful of the most dangerous tasks (and not even your own kids, just other people's kids - you want to kill your own? Have at it - the regs don't prevent you from using the spawn of your loins over an experienced and trained adult). For christ's sake, my daughter works in a movie theatre and they won't let anyone under 18 bring the trash out to the trash compactor!
 
2012-04-25 11:16:57 AM  

James!: Headso: James!: Headso: James!: Headso: Big ag says thanks! Making the small family farm even less profitable is great!

If your business can't get by without exploiting child labor perhaps you have a larger problem than "Big ag".

children working a family farm goes back as far as farming, "exploiting" is a charged word.

No, son. You lost your arm because of tradition! Doesn't that make it all better?

So no bike riding, skateboarding, sking, hockey, anything dangerous? or just helping on the farm?

Not being able to run a thresher is THE VERY SAME as not being able to ride a bike.

You guys realize that the slippery slope is a logical fallacy not a great way to make a point, right?


The pedestrian fatality rate in big cities is about a quarter the fatality rate for farms and more children live in big cities. So we should outlaw walking in big cities for children as well. You keep making farming out to be more dangerous than it actually is wit your cheesy hyperbole.
 
2012-04-25 11:17:12 AM  

A Dark Evil Omen: How stupid can you be?


have you read his posts in the past?
 
2012-04-25 11:17:38 AM  

EWreckedSean: They are not proposing to exempt family.


But that's what the proposal is about. That is literally the sole topic of the proposal. That's why there is a proposal. It's why the proposal exists. Do you see what I'm getting at here?
 
2012-04-25 11:17:40 AM  

Saiga410: t would prohibit farmworkers under age 16 from participating in the cultivation, harvesting and curing of tobacco

I can understand a lot of the regs but this one I just cannot think what would be the reason. We dont want kids to smoke?


I'm not an expert on this subject, but I believe that tobacco leaves themselves are somewhat poisonous. Handling them, in large quantities, for long periods of time can result in illness. I can't swear to that though.
 
2012-04-25 11:17:54 AM  

Lunaville: That's a good point and one that did not occur to me while I was reading the article. I was distracted by implications that children wouldn't be able to work on their parents own land and that 4-H would cease to exist.


I'm impressed, someone who can listen to the evidence, both for and against their current argument, and actually form their own opinion. You are a rare breed.
 
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