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(Yahoo)   Rural kids, parents angry about Labor Dept. rule banning farm chores. City kids still have green light to sell drugs, their bodies and stolen car stereos   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 372
    More: Asinine, Labor Secretary Hilda Solis, Department of Labor, FFA, public comment, American farmers, farms, American Farm Bureau, farm chores  
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2684 clicks; posted to Politics » on 25 Apr 2012 at 10:33 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-25 08:36:10 AM
Settle down hillbillies, you'll be getting your government welfare farm check soon enough.
 
2012-04-25 08:43:21 AM
"Daily Caller"

*closes link*

It's getting to the point where there's no reason to click any Yahoo link anymore.
 
2012-04-25 09:29:52 AM

Aarontology: Settle down hillbillies, you'll be getting your government welfare farm check soon enough.


As one of those hillbillies, I actually agree with banning kids from those sights listed. As far as transporting farm raw materials, I think that might be a bit broad.

Uhm, small farmers do not get those welfare checks.
 
2012-04-25 09:37:29 AM

brerrabbit: As one of those hillbillies, I actually agree with banning kids from those sights listed. As far as transporting farm raw materials, I think that might be a bit broad.


Some of them seem more sensible than others, I agree. But eliminating the 4-H and FFA training seems pointless. Those are good programs for kids who have an interest in agriculture.
 
2012-04-25 09:51:29 AM

Aarontology: brerrabbit: As one of those hillbillies, I actually agree with banning kids from those sights listed. As far as transporting farm raw materials, I think that might be a bit broad.

Some of them seem more sensible than others, I agree. But eliminating the 4-H and FFA training seems pointless. Those are good programs for kids who have an interest in agriculture.


Even DC/Yahoo couldn't come out and say "eliminate" or "ban". What they said was "revoke...approval". So 4-H and FFA are free to continue doing whatever they want, they just aren't able to provide government backed certification. If you want that you have to go through a program actually certified by the government.

Having grown up on a farm operating machinery that was definitely not age appropriate I can see both side of the issue. Personally I worked in great fear of having a limb ripped off and so learned to be very careful. Not everyone learns this sort of lesson the easy way. One neighbor's son fell off a wagon and was run over earning him a colostomy bag while in grade school. A good friend of mine couldn't seem to learn to watch where he put his hands and lost fingers in several separate incidents. Modern farming is done with powerful machines and the risk of life and limb is definitely real.

The important thing to remember here is that this is a DC/Yahoo article and so we can only assume that whatever they are saying is probably not actually true.
 
2012-04-25 09:57:41 AM

TwoHead: Even DC/Yahoo couldn't come out and say "eliminate" or "ban". What they said was "revoke...approval". So 4-H and FFA are free to continue doing whatever they want, they just aren't able to provide government backed certification. If you want that you have to go through a program actually certified by the government.


That's what I was referring to.
 
2012-04-25 10:21:08 AM
Why are these kids allowed to work all day on farms anyway? Shouldn't they be in school?
 
2012-04-25 10:35:15 AM

Grand_Moff_Joseph: Why are these kids allowed to work all day on farms anyway? Shouldn't they be in school?


You snob!
 
2012-04-25 10:37:27 AM
Big ag says thanks! Making the small family farm even less profitable is great!
 
2012-04-25 10:40:07 AM

GAT_00: "Daily Caller"

*closes link*

It's getting to the point where there's no reason to click any Yahoo link anymore.


There's a noticeable correlation between Yahoo circling the drain and its increase in right wing troll bait articles.
 
2012-04-25 10:40:41 AM
No good law/regulation goes unexploited/misused.

Banning kids from working on family farms is one of those slippery slopes we hear so much about.
 
2012-04-25 10:41:16 AM
As amended, the rules exempt farmers' direct children, so I fail to see the issue here.

Besides, look at what the rule covers:

"The proposal would strengthen current child labor regulations prohibiting agricultural work with animals and in pesticide handling, timber operations, manure pits and storage bins. It would prohibit farmworkers under age 16 from participating in the cultivation, harvesting and curing of tobacco. And it would prohibit youth in both agricultural and nonagricultural employment from using electronic, including communication, devices while operating power-driven equipment."

and

"Prohibited places of employment would include country grain elevators, grain bins, silos, feed lots, stockyards, livestock exchanges and livestock auctions."



These are dangerous places for even a experienced adult to be. Teens have no business being in any of those locations.
 
2012-04-25 10:42:49 AM

TwoHead: Aarontology: brerrabbit: As one of those hillbillies, I actually agree with banning kids from those sights listed. As far as transporting farm raw materials, I think that might be a bit broad.

Some of them seem more sensible than others, I agree. But eliminating the 4-H and FFA training seems pointless. Those are good programs for kids who have an interest in agriculture.

Even DC/Yahoo couldn't come out and say "eliminate" or "ban". What they said was "revoke...approval". So 4-H and FFA are free to continue doing whatever they want, they just aren't able to provide government backed certification. If you want that you have to go through a program actually certified by the government.

Having grown up on a farm operating machinery that was definitely not age appropriate I can see both side of the issue. Personally I worked in great fear of having a limb ripped off and so learned to be very careful. Not everyone learns this sort of lesson the easy way. One neighbor's son fell off a wagon and was run over earning him a colostomy bag while in grade school. A good friend of mine couldn't seem to learn to watch where he put his hands and lost fingers in several separate incidents. Modern farming is done with powerful machines and the risk of life and limb is definitely real.

The important thing to remember here is that this is a DC/Yahoo article and so we can only assume that whatever they are saying is probably not actually true.


I'm of two minds as well. My parents were pretty strict about which farm machinery I could operate and at what age (and with good reason). We worked a small dairy farm and while I was permitted to help with milking, feeding, and shoveling shiat, they wouldn't let me drive anything other than the skidloader because of the danger of falling off. Not all parents are quite as careful with their kids. I know of a kid who was killed from falling off a tractor and a girl who will always have scars on her face from leaning over a piece of machinery while wearing a long scarf.

My brother went on to major in agricultural science and manages a farm now...while I'm grateful for the experiences I had with 4-H/growing up on a farm, I don't have any desire to make that a career.
 
2012-04-25 10:44:44 AM
Executive summary for those who dnr:

WHHAARRRGGBLLEEFARTBONGOINFLICTINGKENYANSOCIALISMONGODFEARINGFARMERSD E RPDERPDERPDERPHERPWHHHAAARRRGGGBLLLLL
 
2012-04-25 10:46:42 AM
Who the hell steals a car stereo these days? Someone broke into my car over the weekend, they didn't bother with the stereo.

/they didn't get anything
//nothing worth taking
 
2012-04-25 10:46:43 AM

verbaltoxin: GAT_00: "Daily Caller"

*closes link*

It's getting to the point where there's no reason to click any Yahoo link anymore.

There's a noticeable correlation between Yahoo circling the drain and its increase in right wing troll bait articles.


How many flushes does it take to get rid of that turd?
 
2012-04-25 10:46:53 AM

Grand_Moff_Joseph: These are dangerous places for even a experienced adult to be. Teens have no business being in any of those locations.


Bullshiat.
 
2012-04-25 10:46:53 AM

Headso: Big ag says thanks! Making the small family farm even less profitable is great!


If your business can't get by without exploiting child labor perhaps you have a larger problem than "Big ag".
 
2012-04-25 10:46:54 AM

Grand_Moff_Joseph: As amended, the rules exempt farmers' direct children, so I fail to see the issue here.

Besides, look at what the rule covers:

"The proposal would strengthen current child labor regulations prohibiting agricultural work with animals and in pesticide handling, timber operations, manure pits and storage bins. It would prohibit farmworkers under age 16 from participating in the cultivation, harvesting and curing of tobacco. And it would prohibit youth in both agricultural and nonagricultural employment from using electronic, including communication, devices while operating power-driven equipment."

and

"Prohibited places of employment would include country grain elevators, grain bins, silos, feed lots, stockyards, livestock exchanges and livestock auctions."


These are dangerous places for even a experienced adult to be. Teens have no business being in any of those locations.


Nanny state much? You want to keep a teenager out of a grain elevator is one thing, but feed lots, stock yards, cattle auctions. Oh no, you are much too young to feed the pigs! Give me a break.
 
2012-04-25 10:47:30 AM

James!: Headso: Big ag says thanks! Making the small family farm even less profitable is great!

If your business can't get by without exploiting child labor perhaps you have a larger problem than "Big ag".


So now a family farm is exploiting child labor?
 
2012-04-25 10:47:39 AM
Hell, the rules don't even "ban" kids from working, as trollmitter states. It only reduces the total hours they can work each day.

Meanwhile, while farmers are yelling at TV cameras about not being able to employ kids all day, Monsanto is running them all out of business.
 
2012-04-25 10:49:39 AM
I'm originally from rural Nebraska, and when I was in high school, a friend of mine was in a grain bin when it exploded. He was only 15, and he recovered, thankfully. I guess my point is that people are dismissing how much this could help save lives because they believe the BS from the right about "big gubmint." Yes, it is truly insidious of those nasty Democrats to try and keep children safe.
 
2012-04-25 10:50:19 AM
This law is probably aimed at illegal immigrant workers, who in many cases get started working agricultural jobs when they are vulnerable minors.

Children also die every year doing something as innocuous as corn tasselling, a 'traditional' youth job sort of thing.

As for eliminating FFA and 4H that will never happen, that is scare-mongering on a scale with "Obama's going to ban hunting!!"
 
2012-04-25 10:50:25 AM

EWreckedSean: James!: Headso: Big ag says thanks! Making the small family farm even less profitable is great!

If your business can't get by without exploiting child labor perhaps you have a larger problem than "Big ag".

So now a family farm is exploiting child labor?


If it isn't then there shouldn't be any problems with these new rules.
 
2012-04-25 10:50:40 AM
Why does the Obama admin put out shiat like this? Literally banning farmers from having their kids work on the farm. Its hard enough for small farms to make it, but this will just make it harder. Wouldn't this encourage the farmer to hire people, making it more expensive for the farmer, thus increasing prices? I bet they would hire illegal immigrants to do the work too.

I thought this was a free country...
 
2012-04-25 10:51:03 AM

EWreckedSean: Grand_Moff_Joseph: As amended, the rules exempt farmers' direct children, so I fail to see the issue here.

Besides, look at what the rule covers:

"The proposal would strengthen current child labor regulations prohibiting agricultural work with animals and in pesticide handling, timber operations, manure pits and storage bins. It would prohibit farmworkers under age 16 from participating in the cultivation, harvesting and curing of tobacco. And it would prohibit youth in both agricultural and nonagricultural employment from using electronic, including communication, devices while operating power-driven equipment."

and

"Prohibited places of employment would include country grain elevators, grain bins, silos, feed lots, stockyards, livestock exchanges and livestock auctions."


These are dangerous places for even a experienced adult to be. Teens have no business being in any of those locations.

Nanny state much? You want to keep a teenager out of a grain elevator is one thing, but feed lots, stock yards, cattle auctions. Oh no, you are much too young to feed the pigs! Give me a break.


I know right? I mean, minors ONLY make up about half of all farm task related deaths each year, so it's not like we need to do anything about that.
 
2012-04-25 10:51:21 AM

DjangoStonereaver: Executive summary for those who dnr:

WHHAARRRGGBLLEEFARTBONGOINFLICTINGKENYANSOCIALISMONGODFEARINGFARMERSD E RPDERPDERPDERPHERPWHHHAAARRRGGGBLLLLL


Another repeat, is it?
 
2012-04-25 10:51:27 AM
cost of doing business - up
responsibility and ability of the young - down

what could be wrong with that
 
2012-04-25 10:51:47 AM

LockeOak: Who the hell steals a car stereo these days? Someone broke into my car over the weekend, they didn't bother with the stereo.


No kidding. These days the cool kids are stealing Honda FIT wheels and catalytic converters.
 
2012-04-25 10:52:00 AM

DozeNutz: I didn't bother to read TFA, and it shows...

 
2012-04-25 10:52:21 AM
"Prohibited places of employment," a Department press release read, "would include country grain elevators, grain bins, silos, feed lots, stockyards, livestock exchanges and livestock auctions."

None of those actually have anything to do with any farm small enough to be a family operation. Unless you're talking about "family farm" in the sense that Wal-mart is a "Walton family business".

A married couple with 20 acres, a tractor, and a cow do not have a goddamned grain elevator, and are still exempted from labor laws including child labor and minimum wage laws. It's exactly the same as how children are allowed to darn their own socks but aren't allowed to operate industrial electric looms that put out a hundred square yards a second.

//Technically a family ranch has something called a stock yard, but it would not be registered as such in the business classification.
 
2012-04-25 10:52:21 AM

DozeNutz: Literally banning farmers from having their kids work on the farm.


Nope, look again.
 
2012-04-25 10:52:24 AM

TomMalory: I guess my point is that people are dismissing how much this could help save lives because they believe the BS from the right about "big gubmint." Yes, it is truly insidious of those nasty Democrats to try and keep children safe.


I'm thinking that we ban kids from riding bikes, skates, scooters, in cars, wrap them in rubber...wait. Better yet, let's lock them in closets and never let them go outside. It's the only way to be sure.
 
2012-04-25 10:52:26 AM
Is this gonna throw a kink in Michelle Bachmann's government subsidized "farm" scam replete with foster kid labor?

Cos that would be a darn shame.
 
2012-04-25 10:52:48 AM

EWreckedSean: Nanny state much? You want to keep a teenager out of a grain elevator is one thing, but feed lots, stock yards, cattle auctions. Oh no, you are much too young to feed the pigs! Give me a break.


You try getting kicked in the face by a cow at 14.
It makes sense. Working around large animals, especially a lot of them like in a stockyard, is only work for seasoned professionals, not teenagers. No one's saying teens can feed the pigs, but there's plenty of situations where livestock can be just as deadly as any machinery.
 
2012-04-25 10:52:59 AM

LockeOak: Who the hell steals a car stereo these days? Someone broke into my car over the weekend, they didn't bother with the stereo.

/they didn't get anything
//nothing worth taking


You made me think of this:

Link

NSFW
 
2012-04-25 10:53:09 AM

brerrabbit: Aarontology: Settle down hillbillies, you'll be getting your government welfare farm check soon enough.

As one of those hillbillies, I actually agree with banning kids from those sights listed. As far as transporting farm raw materials, I think that might be a bit broad.

Uhm, small farmers do not get those welfare checks.


Your paw is holding out on you.
 
2012-04-25 10:53:26 AM

EWreckedSean: James!: Headso: Big ag says thanks! Making the small family farm even less profitable is great!

If your business can't get by without exploiting child labor perhaps you have a larger problem than "Big ag".

So now a family farm is exploiting child labor?


YOUR OWN CHILDREN ARE EXEMPT FROM THE RULE. SO NO.

I don't blame you, though, it IS easier to get mad at shiat when you ignore half of it.
 
2012-04-25 10:53:48 AM

DozeNutz: Why does the Obama admin put out shiat like this? Literally banning farmers from having their kids work on the farm. Its hard enough for small farms to make it, but this will just make it harder. Wouldn't this encourage the farmer to hire people, making it more expensive for the farmer, thus increasing prices? I bet they would hire illegal immigrants to do the work too.

I thought this was a free country...


t2.gstatic.com
 
2012-04-25 10:54:06 AM

Headso: Big ag says thanks! Making the small family farm even less profitable is great!


As someone who grew up on a small farm, no kid under 16 should be working in the listed jobs. Farm work is hard and frequently dangerous even without the addition of mechanization that can literally rip off a limb. Let the kids muck out stalls or help deliver calves/lambs/kids, put them to work collecting eggs from the family coop or walking the irrigation lines, hell, teach them how to humanely kill and dress an animal but for farks sake don't put a twelve year old in charge of a farking thresher.
 
2012-04-25 10:54:46 AM

DozeNutz: Why does the Obama admin put out shiat like this? Literally banning farmers from having their kids work on the farm.


But that's 'literally' not what's happening.
 
2012-04-25 10:55:04 AM

DozeNutz: Why does the Obama admin put out shiat like this? Literally banning farmers from having their kids work on the farm. Its hard enough for small farms to make it, but this will just make it harder. Wouldn't this encourage the farmer to hire people, making it more expensive for the farmer, thus increasing prices? I bet they would hire illegal immigrants to do the work too.

I thought this was a free country...


How can you call for the killing and eating of left handed people? I thought we were living in a free country and here you are literally calling for a state sponsored barbeque of people who just happen to favor their left hand over a right.

Truly you are history's greatest monster!
 
2012-04-25 10:55:40 AM
I'd like to preface this by saying that I'm a Democrat and I don't support curbing child labor laws or anything crazy teabaggers might say.

This country, incrementally is trying to legislate away an entire way of life by making it prohibitively expensive, and impossible to navigate all the regs and bureaucracy. Everybody is always talking about the phony wars on religion, Christmas, guns, church, blah blah, etc. But there is actually a real war on rural life as it has been for hundreds of years. The eventual result will be all American farms and ranches being heavy machined, large corporate operations, and a tremendous transfer of land from the middle class to the wealthy.
 
2012-04-25 10:57:12 AM

Dancin_In_Anson: I'm thinking that we ban kids from riding bikes, skates, scooters, in cars, wrap them in rubber...wait. Better yet, let's lock them in closets and never let them go outside. It's the only way to be sure.


Those damn federals are making it ILLEGAL for me to pay an untrained neighbor kid to drive a hay baler around without supervision? WHY NOT JUST BAN ALL-AMERICAN HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL THEN, THAT'S THE SAME GOL-DURN THING
 
2012-04-25 10:57:29 AM

Sergeant Grumbles: EWreckedSean: Nanny state much? You want to keep a teenager out of a grain elevator is one thing, but feed lots, stock yards, cattle auctions. Oh no, you are much too young to feed the pigs! Give me a break.

You try getting kicked in the face by a cow at 14.
It makes sense. Working around large animals, especially a lot of them like in a stockyard, is only work for seasoned professionals, not teenagers. No one's saying teens can feed the pigs, but there's plenty of situations where livestock can be just as deadly as any machinery.


Seriously. I've had bruised ribs, puncture wounds, kicks flying around my face, and broken toes from working with fairly mild-mannered cows and with having hypervigilant parents. Enormous stockyards aren't really the place for anyone who can't hold their own against a 1400+ lb animal.
 
2012-04-25 10:58:11 AM

Grand_Moff_Joseph: EWreckedSean: Grand_Moff_Joseph: As amended, the rules exempt farmers' direct children, so I fail to see the issue here.

Besides, look at what the rule covers:

"The proposal would strengthen current child labor regulations prohibiting agricultural work with animals and in pesticide handling, timber operations, manure pits and storage bins. It would prohibit farmworkers under age 16 from participating in the cultivation, harvesting and curing of tobacco. And it would prohibit youth in both agricultural and nonagricultural employment from using electronic, including communication, devices while operating power-driven equipment."

and

"Prohibited places of employment would include country grain elevators, grain bins, silos, feed lots, stockyards, livestock exchanges and livestock auctions."


These are dangerous places for even a experienced adult to be. Teens have no business being in any of those locations.

Nanny state much? You want to keep a teenager out of a grain elevator is one thing, but feed lots, stock yards, cattle auctions. Oh no, you are much too young to feed the pigs! Give me a break.

I know right? I mean, minors ONLY make up about half of all farm task related deaths each year, so it's not like we need to do anything about that.


Facts aren't your friends are they?

Children account for about 20 percent of all farm fatalities
 
2012-04-25 10:58:32 AM

James!: Headso: Big ag says thanks! Making the small family farm even less profitable is great!

If your business can't get by without exploiting child labor perhaps you have a larger problem than "Big ag".


children working a family farm goes back as far as farming, "exploiting" is a charged word.
 
2012-04-25 10:58:58 AM

James!: DozeNutz: Literally banning farmers from having their kids work on the farm.

Nope, look again.


Ok, semantics. Banning them from working on parts of the farm... Better now? Its still stupid, and I'm sure you think its dumb too. But you wouldn't let partisan politics get in the way of that now would you?
 
2012-04-25 10:59:37 AM

Headso: James!: Headso: Big ag says thanks! Making the small family farm even less profitable is great!

If your business can't get by without exploiting child labor perhaps you have a larger problem than "Big ag".

children working a family farm goes back as far as farming, "exploiting" is a charged word.


No, son. You lost your arm because of tradition! Doesn't that make it all better?
 
2012-04-25 11:00:05 AM

DozeNutz: James!: DozeNutz: Literally banning farmers from having their kids work on the farm.

Nope, look again.

Ok, semantics. Banning them from working on parts of the farm... Better now? Its still stupid, and I'm sure you think its dumb too. But you wouldn't let partisan politics get in the way of that now would you?


Still nope, look again.
 
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