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(ESPN)   Texas Rangers to NY Yankees: Yu can't touch this   (scores.espn.go.com) divider line 108
    More: Spiffy, Yankees, Yu Darvish, Rangers, Ian Kinsler, Darvish, Hiroki Kuroda, Rangers Ballpark in Arlington, New York  
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2034 clicks; posted to Sports » on 25 Apr 2012 at 2:17 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-25 11:26:14 AM  
Washington was going to give him a chance to finish the game but pulled Darvish after Nick Swisher's one-out single on his 119th pitch, his 82nd strike.

This struck me as odd, given Darvish's age, but I found some information on his pitch counts in Japan. In three years, he had six starts where he didn't throw 100 pitches, and he's frequently over 130.

Then again, Japanese starters typically only throw 25-26 starts in a season, so there's no guarantee he can do that for 35 starts. Last season, Darvish averaged 8.3 innings per start. If he wants to do that in MLB, he'll have about 290 IP by the end of the year.
 
2012-04-25 11:29:13 AM  
Meh. They weren't shut out, they'd won the three games before, and they always kinda suck when facing a new pitcher.

Jeter & Cano hit well, and Kuroda actually pitched a solid game. I'll take it.
 
2012-04-25 12:10:24 PM  
The key issue for Darvish so far has been control-- in 26 IP he already has 15 BB, plus 2 HBP and 3 WP. Anyone know if the NPB uses a different strike zone or mound? I know they use a slightly different baseball, and it can't be fun to have to adapt to that after several years as a professional.
 
2012-04-25 12:43:10 PM  

ThatGuyGreg: They weren't shut out


Who wasn't shut out?
 
2012-04-25 01:52:05 PM  

Di Atribe: ThatGuyGreg: They weren't shut out

Who wasn't shut out?


Damn. Meant "no-hit", not "shut out".

/poop
 
2012-04-25 02:20:08 PM  
He was pretty damn impressive, though the Yankees do have a history of looking awful against pitchers they're facing for the first time.
 
2012-04-25 02:21:01 PM  

Yanks_RSJ: He was pretty damn impressive, though the Yankees do have a history of looking awful against pitchers they're facing for the first time.


This, plus the Yankees left a small village on the bases.
 
2012-04-25 02:24:01 PM  

MattyFridays: Yanks_RSJ: He was pretty damn impressive, though the Yankees do have a history of looking awful against pitchers they're facing for the first time.

This, plus the Yankees left a small village on the bases.


No, that's pretty much what they do against new pitchers.
 
2012-04-25 02:28:20 PM  

chimp_ninja: The key issue for Darvish so far has been control-- in 26 IP he already has 15 BB, plus 2 HBP and 3 WP. Anyone know if the NPB uses a different strike zone or mound? I know they use a slightly different baseball, and it can't be fun to have to adapt to that after several years as a professional.


Daisuke had similar issues with walks. Remember they play the game a little bit differently over there. Even if the strike zone is called the same way, different situations call for different pitches and hitters have developed a completely different set of tendencies. Basically, what would be called the "current meta" in the US isn't the same in Japan
 
2012-04-25 02:29:02 PM  
What can't he touch?
 
2012-04-25 02:29:34 PM  
Oh oh oh oh oh oh oh
 
2012-04-25 02:29:54 PM  

chimp_ninja: The key issue for Darvish so far has been control-- in 26 IP he already has 15 BB, plus 2 HBP and 3 WP. Anyone know if the NPB uses a different strike zone or mound? I know they use a slightly different baseball, and it can't be fun to have to adapt to that after several years as a professional.


Going into last night, "Darvish ranked last among American League starters in getting pitches in the strike zone actually called strikes." So that can't help anyone's "control".

"when batters don't swing at Darvish's pitches, only two-thirds (66.7%) of those in the strike zone have been called strikes."

Source

But he threw 70% strikes last night and only one ball was actually hit hard. So it was a pretty decent performance.
 
2012-04-25 02:32:46 PM  

Moopy Mac: chimp_ninja: The key issue for Darvish so far has been control-- in 26 IP he already has 15 BB, plus 2 HBP and 3 WP. Anyone know if the NPB uses a different strike zone or mound? I know they use a slightly different baseball, and it can't be fun to have to adapt to that after several years as a professional.

Going into last night, "Darvish ranked last among American League starters in getting pitches in the strike zone actually called strikes." So that can't help anyone's "control".

"when batters don't swing at Darvish's pitches, only two-thirds (66.7%) of those in the strike zone have been called strikes."

Source

But he threw 70% strikes last night and only one ball was actually hit hard. So it was a pretty decent performance.


Just wildly speculating, but perhaps it is an issue with how strikes are called here. The strike zone itself is static, but if the catcher lines up outside and the pitcher throws inside, it's generally called a ball even if it is in the static strike zone. Perhaps that's not the case back east.
 
2012-04-25 02:39:20 PM  
Not much to add beyond the above mentioned "yeah, that's pretty much what they do against new pitchers."
 
2012-04-25 02:39:21 PM  

bhcompy: Daisuke had similar issues with walks.


Well, Dice-K was a nibbling pussy. From what I've seen of Darvish, especially in the first game against SEA, he was either nervous or had some mechanical flaw he worked on since he honestly had no clue where more than half of his pitches were going.

But, if he really turns out to be "Japanese Power-Nibbler Redux", then I'll make a note to avoid any Rangers game he's pitching since that would amount to "5 hours of my time I could better use elsewhere".
 
2012-04-25 02:43:39 PM  

Killer Cars: Well, Dice-K was a nibbling pussy. From what I've seen of Darvish, especially in the first game against SEA, he was either nervous or had some mechanical flaw he worked on since he honestly had no clue where more than half of his pitches were going.


Darvish has stated that he changes mechanics every game
 
2012-04-25 02:45:00 PM  

thecpt: What can't he touch?


No, YOU can't touch YU.
 
2012-04-25 02:45:49 PM  

bhcompy: Darvish has stated that he changes mechanics every game


interesting; I've certainly heard of pitchers intentionally using different release points w/in the same outing, but that sounds like a potential nightmare if he means that in as broad of a context as I interpret it.
 
2012-04-25 02:51:07 PM  
Rubber match tonight. Phil Hughes against.... wait, Hughes is going? Damn it
 
2012-04-25 02:54:56 PM  

Rex_Banner: Rubber match tonight. Phil Hughes against.... wait, Hughes is going? Damn it


How many runs do you think he'll give up by the time I get home from my softball game around 8:30?
 
2012-04-25 02:58:28 PM  

Killer Cars: bhcompy: Darvish has stated that he changes mechanics every game

interesting; I've certainly heard of pitchers intentionally using different release points w/in the same outing, but that sounds like a potential nightmare if he means that in as broad of a context as I interpret it.


Here's his quote from a week or two ago in regards to altering his mechanics:

"To me this is not that difficult. I think of it like a pen that has different ink. You click on one and you get red; click on another and you get black. It's just different clicks."
 
2012-04-25 03:01:23 PM  

Yanks_RSJ: He was pretty damn impressive, though the Yankees do have a history of looking awful against pitchers they're facing for the first time.


It was impressive. He keeps improving. If you take away that 1st inning meltdown he had against Seattle, he's posting an ERA of just over 1.

What I noticed was NY took their typical approach, which means being patient and working a pitcher. Problem with that strategy last night was Yankee hitters were finding themselves down 0-2 in the count. It totally changes your mentality as a hitter. Add the assortment of breaking (both ways) & off speed pitches Darvish showed last night and is the kinda stuff that keeps a lineup off-balance whether it's the first or the tenth time they've faced a pitcher.

I'm interested in how he does against NY later in the season & on the road.
 
2012-04-25 03:04:56 PM  

Yanks_RSJ: Rex_Banner: Rubber match tonight. Phil Hughes against.... wait, Hughes is going? Damn it

How many runs do you think he'll give up by the time I get home from my softball game around 8:30?


8:30? It might still be the first inning, so only 2. He'll be at 78 pitches though.
 
2012-04-25 03:08:15 PM  
He got touched 7 times. They just weren't grouped together well enough to put runs across.
 
2012-04-25 03:12:52 PM  

MattyFridays: This, plus the Yankees left a small village on the bases.


Seven is quite a small village indeed.
 
2012-04-25 03:14:42 PM  

Rex_Banner: 8:30? It might still be the first inning, so only 2. He'll be at 78 pitches though.


Strike one.
Strike two.
Ball one.
Foul
Ball two.
Foul.
Foul.
Ball three.
Foul.
Hanging slider slammed into the gap for a double.
 
2012-04-25 03:17:10 PM  

Yanks_RSJ: Rex_Banner: 8:30? It might still be the first inning, so only 2. He'll be at 78 pitches though.

Strike one.
Strike two.
Ball one.
Foul
Ball two.
Foul.
Foul.
Ball three.
Foul.
Hanging slider slammed into the gap for a double.


A 10 pitch AB? That would be his personal best I think
 
2012-04-25 03:19:30 PM  

4NTLRZ: What I noticed was NY took their typical approach, which means being patient and working a pitcher. Problem with that strategy last night was Yankee hitters were finding themselves down 0-2 in the count. It


This.

I think the Yankee hitters came into the game expecting to get a lot of free bases, given Darvish's abnormally high ball-to-strike ratio, especially first pitch.

Darvish managing to find the strike zone (or the home plate umpire's ability to actually call it properly) pretty much did the Yankees in.

On the Ranger broadcast, Darvish threw a wicked slider while they were interviewing Nolan Ryan that impressed even Nolan.
 
2012-04-25 03:26:47 PM  
Got to hand it to Kuroda, he pitched a solid game. Texas just had the better guy in the Samurai Showdown.
 
2012-04-25 03:33:33 PM  
A shutout in baseball is worth greenlighting? Uh, ok...

/notice I didn't say "news", because this is FARK after all
 
2012-04-25 03:39:45 PM  
I guess you could say that everybody was kung-fu pitching...
 
2012-04-25 03:41:56 PM  

SkittlesAreYum: A shutout in baseball is worth greenlighting? Uh, ok...

/notice I didn't say "news", because this is FARK after all


Hot new pitcher up against the Yankers? Well, it's neeeewww.... noteworthy to me, anyway. Also, it was a fun game to watch.
 
2012-04-25 03:42:48 PM  
STOP!
 
2012-04-25 03:43:30 PM  

SkittlesAreYum: A shutout in baseball is worth greenlighting? Uh, ok...

/notice I didn't say "news", because this is FARK after all


It was against the YANKEES, man. lol It's a compliment, that's what that is.
 
2012-04-25 03:45:10 PM  
I like how people can't just say "the guy pitched a good game." It has to be, "well, yeah, he was good, but the yankees are usually bad against a pitcher they're unfamiliar with."

The Mariners hadn't seen him before either, and they farking raked against him.

The Mariners.
 
2012-04-25 03:49:30 PM  

Uncle Pooky: I like how people can't just say "the guy pitched a good game." It has to be, "well, yeah, he was good, but the yankees are usually bad against a pitcher they're unfamiliar with."


Well, it's true. Sorry you can't wrap your brain about anything other than, "guy pitched good, y'all."
 
2012-04-25 03:51:52 PM  

Uncle Pooky: The Mariners hadn't seen him before either, and they farking raked against him.


Surprisingly, even minor league teams can do well against a pitcher that can't find the strike zone unless it's during a hitter's count.
 
2012-04-25 03:54:25 PM  

Yanks_RSJ: Uncle Pooky: I like how people can't just say "the guy pitched a good game." It has to be, "well, yeah, he was good, but the yankees are usually bad against a pitcher they're unfamiliar with."

Well, it's true. Sorry you can't wrap your brain about anything other than, "guy pitched good, y'all."


Do the Yankees perform poorly the first time facing a pitcher relative to the rest of the League?
 
2012-04-25 03:57:05 PM  

Uncle Pooky: I like how people can't just say "the guy pitched a good game." It has to be, "well, yeah, he was good, but the yankees are usually bad against a pitcher they're unfamiliar with."


See, the thing is, subby wants us all riled up, and well

pichars.org
 
2012-04-25 03:58:03 PM  

Moopy Mac: Do the Yankees perform poorly the first time facing a pitcher relative to the rest of the League?


Don't know, we're mostly relying on anecdotal evidence of that phenomenon.
 
2012-04-25 04:02:00 PM  

Yanks_RSJ: Moopy Mac: Do the Yankees perform poorly the first time facing a pitcher relative to the rest of the League?

Don't know, we're mostly relying on anecdotal evidence of that phenomenon.


How many years of data should we pull to prove you wrong, is just 2011 enough or would you like a larger sample?
Do you mean first time that year or first time ever?
 
2012-04-25 04:07:23 PM  

You're the jerk... jerk: How many years of data should we pull to prove you wrong, is just 2011 enough or would you like a larger sample?
Do you mean first time that year or first time ever?



Yeah, go ahead and pull those numbers for us. Thanks.
 
2012-04-25 04:07:31 PM  

You're the jerk... jerk: How many years of data should we pull to prove you wrong


I don't really care how much of a pedantic ass you want to be. Go nuts, I don't feel the need to justify a half-hearted generalization based on my own personal memory.
 
2012-04-25 04:09:22 PM  

Di Atribe: Yeah, go ahead and pull those numbers for us. Thanks.


Oh God, fine. Yu Darvish's performance last night was spectacular, without any caveat whatsoever. I consider myself lucky that I have cable and was able to watch every pitch of that glorious masterpiece.
 
2012-04-25 04:09:33 PM  

Yanks_RSJ: Uncle Pooky: I like how people can't just say "the guy pitched a good game." It has to be, "well, yeah, he was good, but the yankees are usually bad against a pitcher they're unfamiliar with."

Well, it's true. Sorry you can't wrap your brain about anything other than, "guy pitched good, y'all."


Well, I actually can, but since there's no east coast bias to it, I doubt you'd be interested.
 
2012-04-25 04:11:36 PM  

Yanks_RSJ: Don't know, we're mostly relying on anecdotal evidence of that phenomenon.


I don't see much evidence at all, I just see people repeating the same thing over and over again. But if you happen to have some I hope it's from last year. At only 17 games in I hope no one is drawing any meaningful conclusions from this year. I mean how many 'new' pitchers could they have faced this season? The small sample size would render the results meaningless in any event. Not saying it's not true, I just see people say it and I wonder why people are saying it and if it's based on anything other than people keep saying it.
 
2012-04-25 04:13:42 PM  

Yanks_RSJ: Oh God, fine. Yu Darvish's performance last night was spectacular, without any caveat whatsoever.


OK - disregard prior post.
 
2012-04-25 04:14:59 PM  

Yanks_RSJ: Di Atribe: Yeah, go ahead and pull those numbers for us. Thanks.

Oh God, fine. Yu Darvish's performance last night was spectacular, without any caveat whatsoever. I consider myself lucky that I have cable and was able to watch every pitch of that glorious masterpiece.


Elias seemed to think it was unique:
Yu Darvish did not allow a run and struck out 10 and earned the victory in eight plus innings of work in the Rangers' 2-0 win over the Yankees on Tuesday. Since divisional play began in 1969, only two other pitchers have hurled at least eight shutout innings with 10-or-more strikeouts in their first career start against the Yankees: Baltimore's Bob Milacki on September 28, 1988 and Cleveland's Bartolo Colon on September 21, 1998.
 
2012-04-25 04:15:45 PM  

Yanks_RSJ: Di Atribe: Yeah, go ahead and pull those numbers for us. Thanks.

Oh God, fine. Yu Darvish's performance last night was spectacular, without any caveat whatsoever. I consider myself lucky that I have cable and was able to watch every pitch of that glorious masterpiece.


Funny thing is, I'm pretty sure you and Di were on the same page there... but I'm glad to see that didn't stop you from a tantrum.
 
2012-04-25 04:17:08 PM  

JohnBigBootay: I just see people say it and I wonder why people are saying it and if it's based on anything other than people keep saying it.


It's a widely-held belief going back for many years. Right or wrong, people tend to remember the negative performances more than the good ones, so admittedly it may be completely inaccurate statistically. Apparently I'm required to have detailed footnotes for such remarks at this point.

Uncle Pooky: east coast bias


Sorry that more than 1/3 of the country lives on the east coast. Deal with it.
 
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