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(Yahoo)   It's not bullying when teachers do it, right? Bonus: autism. Super secret bonus: audio   (shine.yahoo.com) divider line 273
    More: Sick, Stuart Chaifetz, San Clemente, autism, teachers, elementary schools, middle schools  
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14100 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Apr 2012 at 12:01 AM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-25 11:48:42 AM  

cryinoutloud: mialynneb: lazyguineapig33: american teachers are shiat? shocking...
You want to come work with me for a day and tell me what a shiatty job I do? I work in the Title I program. I think these teachers are garbage but until you've worked one day at my job, don't generalize my profession.

I'm going to avoid this thread, because I dislike talking about teachers, mainly because if you haven't done it, you don't have a clue, and yet here we are with hundreds of people all spouting about how they know it all.

I've been a substitute teacher for the past three years. I really don't have such a high opinion of teachers--some of them are great, some suck, like every other human. But I did get lots of experience working with the "special ed" kids, mainly because a lot of the subs won't take them. I never saw anything even close to what this parent is claiming. And the funny thing is, the people who had to deal with the seriously autistic kids, the ones who did scream, destroy the classrooms, and attack people, were not even teachers. They are called "para-professionals" and they make an average of $8 an hour ("but the benefits are good", one of them told me glumly), to watch these kids day after day and keep them from hurting themselves or anyone else.

I never saw any of these women (almost all women) act in anything but a professional manner, and that included when they were being spit on, had to change poopy pants, or keep some kid from stabbing them with a pencil. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen--maybe it does, when the sub with the big mouth isn't there to witness it. But I was seriously impressed with how these people handled these kids. They are nothing but glorified baby-sitters, and yet they have all the responsibilities of a parent with an entire school board watching them. I doubt the parents of these kids keep their cool as well. Because they don't have to.


Thanks for the anecdotal defense of these shartbags. So much for avoiding this thread as well.
 
2012-04-25 11:57:24 AM  

orclover: category_five: So I watch the video, it opens up with 5 minutes of commentary of what a perfect angel his son is, 20 seconds of teacher talking about drinking wine, another 5 minutes of angry parent commentary.

Finally the 20 minute video gets to the relevant 30 seconds. The kid screams at the teacher at the top of his lungs. After getting my ear drums pierced by it, I'm sympathizing with the teacher rather than the parent. Yeah she probably should have picked a line of work she's more suited for, but that kid sounds like an unholy terror.

I'm trying really hard to give a damn, but it's just not coming. These people expect free baby sitting from the state for their special needs kid who is very likely never going to contribute anything to society. It's great that NJ at least segregates special needs kids from the normal classes, I know some states insist on placing them with normal students - But really they shouldn't be in school at all. They should be in a managed care facility, and the parents should be paying for it, not the state.

I know your trolling but I just got to say, Do you have any idea how much that cost? I mean I know you don't have a clue, but gaaawd damn dude. So only rich people should have kids? China strong?

/So vote republican then?
//I am honestly too farking worn out to deal with your level of trolling, somebody else take over.


what does this have to do with Republicans, genius? Republicans would not allow the abortion of a handicapped child therefore I'd say you're 100% wrong and stupid for accusing someone of trollilng then doing it yourself...carry on everyone else.
 
2012-04-25 12:17:03 PM  
DNRTFA(udio), but it occurs to me that an autistic boy with the name of "Akian" who is the son of a middle-aged animal rights activist (no bringing home the bacon, guy?) is about as perfect a recipe for a bully magnet as can be imagined.

A resurrected Jesus would tease this kid.
 
2012-04-25 12:25:57 PM  

mahuika: This is super sad to see.

On an aside, is the autistic kid in with general education? If so, that shouldn't be the case. I know it has nothing to do with what the teachers are doing wrong, but I wonder why that is, unless he's extremely high functioning.


All of the students in Akian's class land somewhere on the Autism Spectrum.
 
2012-04-25 12:29:49 PM  

Valiente: DNRTFA(udio), but it occurs to me that an autistic boy with the name of "Akian" who is the son of a middle-aged animal rights activist (no bringing home the bacon, guy?) is about as perfect a recipe for a bully magnet as can be imagined.

A resurrected Jesus would tease this kid.


So that makes it right?

Wow... do you kick injured puppies in your spare time? I mean, they're pretty vulnerable too.

Quick update (I didn't see it in the scan of this thread) - everyone on tape has been fired. Link

Apparently it was an "internal personnel matter" until the father went public with it. Kind of hard to hide behind bureaucracy once it hits the press.
 
2012-04-25 12:45:02 PM  
Uh... did anyone listen to the audio? Ignore the dad's unnecessary commentary and just listen to the audio? I was ready to get all fired up about this... but there's no abuse. One adult talks to another about drinking alcohol and to hear the father describe it you'd think he was Mormon. AND THAT'S ALL THERE IS. So she tells the little brat to shut up. He's the one doing all the screaming, right? For fark's sake, there's no abuse going on here. This guy's a douchebag and he's raising a future douchebag.
 
2012-04-25 12:46:39 PM  

JWideman: Uh... did anyone listen to the audio? Ignore the dad's unnecessary commentary and just listen to the audio? I was ready to get all fired up about this... but there's no abuse. One adult talks to another about drinking alcohol and to hear the father describe it you'd think he was Mormon. AND THAT'S ALL THERE IS. So she tells the little brat to shut up. He's the one doing all the screaming, right? For fark's sake, there's no abuse going on here. This guy's a douchebag and he's raising a future douchebag.


Did you listen to the audio? Again, where the teacher begins referring to the kid as a bastard?
 
2012-04-25 12:49:52 PM  

Mavent: I see this finally made Fark. Here's the email I sent the guy after first reading the story:

After having read (and listened to) your article regarding your son, I thought you might be interested in a teacher's perspective on your story. Then again, perhaps not- you seem like a singularly self-interested individual, so it's possible that you're uninterested in any viewpoint other than your own. Yet still, after having dealt with SPED children for years, I feel the need to speak up.

First off, let me merely point out that in today's world, "autism" has become little more than a word parents use to justify their own need for attention. Either your child is autistic, in which case it's hard to believe your stories of what a bright, happy, well-adjusted child he is, or he's not. And if he's not, then you're a lousy parent, because autism isn't a label to lightly be slapped on a child, just because you think it's cool and trendy. It's a medical condition, typified by anti-social behavior and diminished learning capacity.

Oh yes, I know. You're likely one of the modern breed of parents that thinks Autism is a super-power. But see, therein lies the problem. You want all the attention of and drama that goes with being fawned over as you insist that your child is "autistic", but you don't want any of the responsibility of acknowledging that real Autism isn't fun, it isn't cute, and it's not an excuse for you to blame your kid's teachers for his limitations.

Now, imagine you're a teacher, and you have an autistic kid in your class that's being a problem. And the parent, one of these smug, uniformed, self-delusional types, keeps insisting that HIS kid is afflicted with MAGIC autism, the kind that turns the afflicted kid into an absolute angel with zero behavioral problems. Now imagine that you've done your job and reported these problems to the parent. But instead of addressing the issue, the parent behaves like a lunatic. Imagine that the guy goes as far as ...


Your whole argument is based around the notion that the father is lying about his son being Autistic? You know this how? Have you spent time with the boy? Have you spoken with his teachers? School administrators? His doctors? Having dealt with SPED children for "years" does not give you the ability to diagnose a child by listening to less than 5 minutes of the child's speech and actions.
 
2012-04-25 12:50:13 PM  

JWideman: Uh... did anyone listen to the audio? Ignore the dad's unnecessary commentary and just listen to the audio? I was ready to get all fired up about this... but there's no abuse. One adult talks to another about drinking alcohol and to hear the father describe it you'd think he was Mormon. AND THAT'S ALL THERE IS. So she tells the little brat to shut up. He's the one doing all the screaming, right? For fark's sake, there's no abuse going on here. This guy's a douchebag and he's raising a future douchebag.


RTFA
 
2012-04-25 12:51:10 PM  

koertlc: Having dealt with SPED children for "years"


Maybe he has a GED in Spastics.
 
2012-04-25 12:52:38 PM  

Gunther: Mavent: Here's the email I sent the guy after first reading the story

OK, see now, category_five? THIS is what 10/10 trolling looks like. Perhaps a shade too obvious, but so wonderfully offensive to basic human decency most people will overlook it in their rush to take the bait. You should catch quite a few fish with that.


Sadly, I took the bait....
 
2012-04-25 12:56:54 PM  

Smoky Dragon Dish: The teacher's aide was fired, but the teacher is still teaching....

WTF???


The Aide likely wasn't tenured. Makes it (sorta) look like you solved the problem without actually attacking it.
 
2012-04-25 01:22:21 PM  

Mavent: I see this finally made Fark. Here's the email I sent the guy after first reading the story:

After having read (and listened to) your article regarding your son, I thought you might be interested in a teacher's perspective on your story. Then again, perhaps not- you seem like a singularly self-interested individual, so it's possible that you're uninterested in any viewpoint other than your own. Yet still, after having dealt with SPED children for years, I feel the need to speak up.

First off, let me merely point out that in today's world, "autism" has become little more than a word parents use to justify their own need for attention. Either your child is autistic, in which case it's hard to believe your stories of what a bright, happy, well-adjusted child he is, or he's not. And if he's not, then you're a lousy parent, because autism isn't a label to lightly be slapped on a child, just because you think it's cool and trendy. It's a medical condition, typified by anti-social behavior and diminished learning capacity.

Oh yes, I know. You're likely one of the modern breed of parents that thinks Autism is a super-power. But see, therein lies the problem. You want all the attention of and drama that goes with being fawned over as you insist that your child is "autistic", but you don't want any of the responsibility of acknowledging that real Autism isn't fun, it isn't cute, and it's not an excuse for you to blame your kid's teachers for his limitations.

Now, imagine you're a teacher, and you have an autistic kid in your class that's being a problem. And the parent, one of these smug, uniformed, self-delusional types, keeps insisting that HIS kid is afflicted with MAGIC autism, the kind that turns the afflicted kid into an absolute angel with zero behavioral problems. Now imagine that you've done your job and reported these problems to the parent. But instead of addressing the issue, the parent behaves like a lunatic. Imagine that the guy goes as far as to illegally r ...


You sir are a moron. Besided your ignorance on the topic at hand, you do know the pic you linked, she claims to have ASSBERGERS, not AUTISM. Idiot.
 
2012-04-25 01:22:57 PM  

meathome: Valiente: DNRTFA(udio), but it occurs to me that an autistic boy with the name of "Akian" who is the son of a middle-aged animal rights activist (no bringing home the bacon, guy?) is about as perfect a recipe for a bully magnet as can be imagined.

A resurrected Jesus would tease this kid.

So that makes it right?

Wow... do you kick injured puppies in your spare time? I mean, they're pretty vulnerable too.

Quick update (I didn't see it in the scan of this thread) - everyone on tape has been fired. Link

Apparently it was an "internal personnel matter" until the father went public with it. Kind of hard to hide behind bureaucracy once it hits the press.


Groovy. Thanks for taking the bait I assumed was clearly marked "BAIIIIIIIIIIIT".

I left it on the first row of the short bus.
 
2012-04-25 01:43:33 PM  
Why does it sound like the teachers are closer to the microphone than the kid actually wearing it? Did he hide it in his back pack?

I don't know if I fully agree with the dad here. Autistic kids can be REALLY hard to handle. So one of the teachers sternly tells him to shut his mouth, and the dad claims that should never happen under any circumstances? Sorry, dude, no. Kids who act up are gonna get yelled at. It sucks, but it happens, and sometimes it has to happen.

But I haven't had uninterrupted time to listen to the whole thing yet. I'd really like to avoid the dad's commentary. If the evidence itself is as damning as he claims, it should be able to stand alone. Does anyone know about what time in the video the taunting or "bastard" part come in?
 
2012-04-25 01:58:26 PM  

QU!RK1019: Why does it sound like the teachers are closer to the microphone than the kid actually wearing it?


Because it is all a Republican conspiracy to destroy the education system and vaccinate the youth of America in a liberal plot to marginalize special education which is the tool of socialists trying to tax the hell out of hard-working Americans who are smart enough to breed like rats and not admit their children are mentally handicapped unless it looks good on the left-wing mainstream media which is run by hobgoblins. Oh, wait, sh*t where were we?
 
2012-04-25 02:05:31 PM  

Mavent: JackieRabbit: Yeah, this whole thing is rather fishy, isn't it? I think dad is the problem. He's using his son for $$.

The problem isn't that these conditions don't exist- it's that they're being cheapened by idiots who want to use them as an excuse to avoid raising their kid to be an actual human being.


Ditto here, a part of it is that the definition changed in the 90's and added Aspergers. Before that you couldn't go beyond "rain man" and had to virtually be non-verbal.

Sadly there's a lot of self diagnosis happening these days, there's a huge difference between a unsocialized dorky kid and autism.

I could have easily been diagnosed with autism in elementary school because I was not socialized enough, shy, and nerdy. However, I was able to figure out social skills and now I'm a social butterfly.

My brother has autism, my family and I had to put in a lot of work to have him learn the basic social skills and it's still very difficult for him. He has to practice all the time to be barely "normal".

Trying to explain to him social cues is like explaining the color blue to a blind man.

What most people don't know is that there is a financial incentive to label kids with disorders because the school gets extra money from the government. It's one of the reasons why we have an explosion in ADD and Aspie diagnosis, they are both relatively "mild" (meaning they don't necessarily need an aide, special classroom, etc) but the school still gets a few thousand more in cash.

We had a mixed bag of teachers, the admins were worst IMHO. But here's a list of bullshiat we had to deal with:

1) Teacher witnessed and didn't stop my brother getting beat up. She didn't tell us because "Kevin has to tell me there's someone hurting him". farking biatch

2) Admins tried to put him in an ESL class, not a special ed class.

3) Admins call my Dad racist when he points out the ESL kids should have an ESL teacher and special ed should have a special ed teacher.

4) Sued district when they refused to follow his IEP. We had to put him in a private school 2 hours away so we just wanted our money back.

5) Mysteriously "lost" his records that we need for court case. Had to go to Harrisburg and get our representative to put in a calls, magically re-appeared!
 
2012-04-25 02:30:15 PM  

thamike: Mavent: WHAT did the teacher do?

She probably tried to explain--at length and with absolutely no idea what she was talking about--just exactly how these autistic kids were a bunch of phony whiny fakers.


*snicker*
 
2012-04-25 02:34:54 PM  
Wait, is this a joke? I don't think ANY of the stuff the dad heard on the tape is actually what was being said. I don't think Akian asked to see "dad after mom," I don't think he was referring to it later when he just said "may I see," I don't think the teacher taunted him into acting out, and most importantly, I don't think the teacher called him a bastard. Furthermore, seeing as how Akian's screams are considerably less audible than the teachers' conversational voices, and there no sounds from body movement, I don't think the microphone was actually on the boy. Therefore, it's not impossible that the teachers' discussion about wine was out of earshot of the children.
 
2012-04-25 02:34:54 PM  

shortymac: What most people don't know is that there is a financial incentive to label kids with disorders because the school gets extra money from the government. It's one of the reasons why we have an explosion in ADD and Aspie diagnosis, they are both relatively "mild" (meaning they don't necessarily need an aide, special classroom, etc) but the school still gets a few thousand more in cash.


Thanks for pointing that out. I guess I just assumed that most people already understood this, but reading this thread, it's clear that they don't.

Every year, the number of kids flagged under "autism spectrum" doubles in my school district. Some of these kids clearly have no problem whatsoever aside from their parents. The school administrators don't care, because they get more money for the school, and the parents don't care, because they've managed to create a culture in which declaring your kid "autistic" is the new equivalent of naming them "Apple" or "Moon Unit". And frankly, even the SPED teachers don't care, because it's usually easier than dealing with legitimately disabled kids.

One unfortunate side effect though is that kids you really have Autism are being treated dismissively because of all the phoney cases. We have a kid coming in next year who has already assaulted two aides and stabbed another kid in the chest (missing his heart by two inches) with a pair of scissors. He's eleven years old. They've told us that we basically have to outfit an entire classroom just for him, because he's too dangerous to have around other kids. And we can't get rid of him, because the word "autism" has become such a joke. Try and tell people that you have a violent, aggressive autistic kid in your class, and most people just smile and say "oh, my sister has an autistic kid! He's adorable!"
 
2012-04-25 02:44:15 PM  

thamike: QU!RK1019: Why does it sound like the teachers are closer to the microphone than the kid actually wearing it?

Because it is all a Republican conspiracy to destroy the education system and vaccinate the youth of America in a liberal plot to marginalize special education which is the tool of socialists trying to tax the hell out of hard-working Americans who are smart enough to breed like rats and not admit their children are mentally handicapped unless it looks good on the left-wing mainstream media which is run by hobgoblins. Oh, wait, sh*t where were we?


Apparently, we were avoiding a legitimate question because we had no answer for it.

If you weren't so busy being a douche, you'd notice a couple of things that don't exactly require a "conspiracy theory" to appear strange:

1: There are no other children in the recording. I don't know if you've ever been in a class full of kids that age, but they tend to be noisy. Why is it that we can hear the teachers perfectly, but not any of the other kids? I'll tell you why- because it was recorded before class started. The asshole who recorded it even says as much. He sent his kid in before class, which is typically when teachers and aides get geared up for the day, and told the kid to go up and stand right by the teacher.

2: Why isn't there a complete tape? It's be easy enough to put up. Again, I'll tell you why: it's because then you'd have heard the teacher asking the kid to go sit down or go outside and play until the bell rang.

3: Why is it that every single word the teachers say is clear as a bell... except for the parts that are supposedly the teacher "insulting" the kid, which are garbled?

Oh, but hey, please post another half-assed attempt at wit. It's so much easier than posting something intelligent.
 
2012-04-25 02:46:59 PM  

Mearen: You sir are a moron.


And you're a whore. We all have our crosses to bear.
 
2012-04-25 02:47:00 PM  

Mavent: Oh, but hey, please post another half-assed attempt at wit. It's so much easier than posting something intelligent.


Really. Why try to be witty when you can just make shiat up to back your position? Jeesh, people!
 
2012-04-25 02:48:01 PM  

Madbassist1: Really. Why try to be witty when you can just make shiat up to back your position? Jeesh, people!


Or, you could just continue to be a juvenile asshole, since it's worked so well for you so far.
 
2012-04-25 02:49:36 PM  

Mavent: Madbassist1: Really. Why try to be witty when you can just make shiat up to back your position? Jeesh, people!

Or, you could just continue to be a juvenile asshole, since it's worked so well for you so far.


So very clever. "I know you are, but what am I?" An archetype of debate, for sure. You're a teacher? I weep for the educational system.
 
2012-04-25 02:52:39 PM  

Madbassist1: I weep for the educational system.


Admittedly, we failed YOU, cretin.

But let's play a game. Let's pretend there's an actual audio file that we can all listen to associated with this article. And let's further pretend that we have these things called "ears". Now let's pretend that I asserted that you couldn't hear any kids over the teachers talking in the aforementioned audio files.

Now, and here's the hard part, pretend you're NOT a gigantic bag of dicks. Refute my claim that you can't hear any kids in the audio, based on, you know, listening to it.
 
2012-04-25 02:54:34 PM  
Yeah, I thought so.
 
2012-04-25 03:02:52 PM  

Mavent: I see this finally made Fark. Here's the email I sent the guy after first reading the story:

(obnoxiously long rant claiming autism isn't real because HE once saw a parent who MADE IT UP!!11!eleventy and this dad is PURE EVIL!!!11!!111!) ...


This is the reply I would send:

Dear Random Stranger,

I'm sorry you feel that way, but unfortunately I have documented six hours of child abuse. I am probably going to get a lot of flak for not going to the cops, but I actually opted to make it easier on the teachers in question by just asking for justice through the school system.

I'm not sure why you identify with teachers who have committed these sorts of crimes to the point where you feel the need to write me a long, furious letter full of shiat, but I will be more than glad to attach a copy of this to my website asking if anyone knows who you are. Quite frankly I wouldn't entrust a puppy's corpse to you, let alone a living child, and I would like to send a letter to your superiors warning them of the same thing before you cause damage to some poor kid. I would also recommend therapy.

Sincerely yours, A Normal Human Being Who Can Use Google To Learn About Basic Disorders.

/Unfortunately, I'm not the parent...
//But hey, hang in there! I'm sure supporting criminals is a GREAT career move for a teacher!
 
2012-04-25 03:12:40 PM  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfFRv_1XdDM
 
2012-04-25 03:18:45 PM  

Mavent: Madbassist1: I weep for the educational system.

Admittedly, we failed YOU, cretin.

But let's play a game. Let's pretend there's an actual audio file that we can all listen to associated with this article. And let's further pretend that we have these things called "ears". Now let's pretend that I asserted that you couldn't hear any kids over the teachers talking in the aforementioned audio files.

Now, and here's the hard part, pretend you're NOT a gigantic bag of dicks. Refute my claim that you can't hear any kids in the audio, based on, you know, listening to it.


The only person being a dick here is you. All I said was you were making shiat up to back your position and you are, asshole. End of story.
 
2012-04-25 03:19:48 PM  

Mavent: genius


Did you watch the video?

Specifically: 1) Called the kid a "bastard."

2) Made fun of the kid until he cried.

3) Laughed at the kid when the kid cried.

That's abusive. It's grounds for getting fired.

The other things -- talking about your date with the toilet and yelling "Shut up" at the kids -- are inappropriate. They should be grounds for disciplinary action.
 
2012-04-25 03:22:00 PM  
There's retarded, and then there's "trying to eat the dog face first without cooking it" retarded.

l.yimg.com
 
2012-04-25 03:24:20 PM  

Mavent: Madbassist1: I weep for the educational system.

Admittedly, we failed YOU, cretin.

But let's play a game. Let's pretend there's an actual audio file that we can all listen to associated with this article. And let's further pretend that we have these things called "ears". Now let's pretend that I asserted that you couldn't hear any kids over the teachers talking in the aforementioned audio files.

Now, and here's the hard part, pretend you're NOT a gigantic bag of dicks. Refute my claim that you can't hear any kids in the audio, based on, you know, listening to it.


Just because you're deaf as a post doesn't mean that everyone is.

I hope to god someone fires you soon. You don't belong in a classroom.
 
2012-04-25 03:44:41 PM  

AnakinTWH: Lots of derping about "ARREST THE DAD FOR ILLEGAL WIRETAPPING!"

New Jersey, like many other states, is a "one-party consent" state for audio surveillance. As long as one person consents, it's legal. Being a minor, and autistic, I doubt any lawyer is gonna be able to say what the father did violated the way this law works, as he is the legal guardian. Also, any lawyer who does try is going to find it very difficult to get a judge or jury to agree with them that what he did violated wiretapping consent laws.


also public school, no reasonable expectation of privac
 
2012-04-25 03:57:19 PM  

Mavent: thamike: QU!RK1019: Why does it sound like the teachers are closer to the microphone than the kid actually wearing it?

Because it is all a Republican conspiracy to destroy the education system and vaccinate the youth of America in a liberal plot to marginalize special education which is the tool of socialists trying to tax the hell out of hard-working Americans who are smart enough to breed like rats and not admit their children are mentally handicapped unless it looks good on the left-wing mainstream media which is run by hobgoblins. Oh, wait, sh*t where were we?

Apparently, we were avoiding a legitimate question because we had no answer for it.

If you weren't so busy being a douche, you'd notice a couple of things that don't exactly require a "conspiracy theory" to appear strange:

1: There are no other children in the recording. I don't know if you've ever been in a class full of kids that age, but they tend to be noisy. Why is it that we can hear the teachers perfectly, but not any of the other kids? I'll tell you why- because it was recorded before class started. The asshole who recorded it even says as much. He sent his kid in before class, which is typically when teachers and aides get geared up for the day, and told the kid to go up and stand right by the teacher.

2: Why isn't there a complete tape? It's be easy enough to put up. Again, I'll tell you why: it's because then you'd have heard the teacher asking the kid to go sit down or go outside and play until the bell rang.

3: Why is it that every single word the teachers say is clear as a bell... except for the parts that are supposedly the teacher "insulting" the kid, which are garbled?

Oh, but hey, please post another half-assed attempt at wit. It's so much easier than posting something intelligent.


Hey, I think you're just swell.
 
2012-04-25 04:05:15 PM  

Oznog: The father was NOT a party in this conversation. It's remote eavesdropping, and sounds illegal as hell. But it's hardly gonna seem practical to charge (probably criminal here) or sue when the issue is they were abusing his disabled child.


Yeah I realize that, I didn't feel like that really addressed the misconception about the law that I responded to though.

But yeah, it may be true that the boy cannot be considered the actor and cannot even legally consent to the recording. In which case none of the parties present consented, and it was eavesdropping. No argument there.

Illegal as hell, is probably an exaggeration though. A misdemeanor with highly mitigating circumstances.

(Although if I was a very very very evil attorney, and I was hired to represent the school/teachers. I would find out if the boy ever went into the restroom with the device. I would then claim that the father recorded little boys in the restroom without consent. But that's only if I already knew I was going to hell anyway.)
 
2012-04-25 04:19:11 PM  

SultanofSchwing: JWideman: Uh... did anyone listen to the audio? Ignore the dad's unnecessary commentary and just listen to the audio? I was ready to get all fired up about this... but there's no abuse. One adult talks to another about drinking alcohol and to hear the father describe it you'd think he was Mormon. AND THAT'S ALL THERE IS. So she tells the little brat to shut up. He's the one doing all the screaming, right? For fark's sake, there's no abuse going on here. This guy's a douchebag and he's raising a future douchebag.

Did you listen to the audio? Again, where the teacher begins referring to the kid as a bastard?


Is that what you heard? Or is that just what you THOUGHT you heard because the Dad is saying that's what HE hears?
 
2012-04-25 04:38:28 PM  

JWideman: SultanofSchwing: JWideman: Uh... did anyone listen to the audio? Ignore the dad's unnecessary commentary and just listen to the audio? I was ready to get all fired up about this... but there's no abuse. One adult talks to another about drinking alcohol and to hear the father describe it you'd think he was Mormon. AND THAT'S ALL THERE IS. So she tells the little brat to shut up. He's the one doing all the screaming, right? For fark's sake, there's no abuse going on here. This guy's a douchebag and he's raising a future douchebag.

Did you listen to the audio? Again, where the teacher begins referring to the kid as a bastard?

Is that what you heard? Or is that just what you THOUGHT you heard because the Dad is saying that's what HE hears?


images.rottentomatoes.com

THEY'RE ALL GONNA LAUGH AT YOU
 
2012-04-25 04:53:14 PM  

Mavent: I see this finally made Fark. Here's the email I sent the guy after first reading the story:

After having read (and listened to) your article regarding your son, I thought you might be interested in a teacher's perspective on your story. Then again, perhaps not- you seem like a singularly self-interested individual, so it's possible that you're uninterested in any viewpoint other than your own. Yet still, after having dealt with SPED children for years, I feel the need to speak up.

First off, let me merely point out that in today's world, "autism" has become little more than a word parents use to justify their own need for attention. Either your child is autistic, in which case it's hard to believe your stories of what a bright, happy, well-adjusted child he is, or he's not. And if he's not, then you're a lousy parent, because autism isn't a label to lightly be slapped on a child, just because you think it's cool and trendy. It's a medical condition, typified by anti-social behavior and diminished learning capacity.

Oh yes, I know. You're likely one of the modern breed of parents that thinks Autism is a super-power. But see, therein lies the problem. You want all the attention of and drama that goes with being fawned over as you insist that your child is "autistic", but you don't want any of the responsibility of acknowledging that real Autism isn't fun, it isn't cute, and it's not an excuse for you to blame your kid's teachers for his limitations.

Now, imagine you're a teacher, and you have an autistic kid in your class that's being a problem. And the parent, one of these smug, uniformed, self-delusional types, keeps insisting that HIS kid is afflicted with MAGIC autism, the kind that turns the afflicted kid into an absolute angel with zero behavioral problems. Now imagine that you've done your job and reported these problems to the parent. But instead of addressing the issue, the parent behaves like a lunatic. Imagine that the guy goes as far as ...


1/10
 
2012-04-25 05:19:34 PM  

Mavent: JackieRabbit: Yeah, this whole thing is rather fishy, isn't it? I think dad is the problem. He's using his son for $$.

It's worse than that. He's using his kid to justify his own psychosis. Any SPED teacher can tell you that the number of parents claiming that their kids are "autistic" has increased by a factor of 1,000 over the past five years. Part of the problem is that the definition of the autism spectrum has been increased to include just about anything- your kid doesn't eat his veggies? Autism. Your kid is an insufferable brat? Autism. Your kid doesn't want to do homework? Autism. Hell, we see this here Online ever single week. In any thread about Autism, a minimum of twelve attention-whore morons will show up to tell us about their struggles with "Aspergers".

The problem isn't that these conditions don't exist- it's that they're being cheapened by idiots who want to use them as an excuse to avoid raising their kid to be an actual human being.


Once again, you have an excellent point. Too bad you (a) wasted it trying to defend the assholes in TFA and (b) used it to promote a stereotype. You say you're a teacher; how about venting some of that anti-fake-Aspie bile on things like improved screening before placing students on IEPs? Eliminate the reward, and you remove much of the motivation for parents claiming their kids have ASDs. Or public outreach and education? A kid with ASD having a public meltdown plays out quite differently from an attention whore's tantrum; and if someone is acting rudely, the cues as to whether this might be ASD aren't in the behavior itself, but in the response to complaints about the behavior.

You acknowledge that "the problem isn't that these conditions don't exist," yet you seem to expect that only "attention-whore morons" will respond to your screed--or at least that nobody with a real ASD will reply. Perhaps you know less about ASD than you think you do.
 
2012-04-25 05:33:37 PM  

Mavent: One unfortunate side effect though is that kids you really have Autism are being treated dismissively because of all the phoney cases.


That's some mighty good self-insight there, Lou. Oh, wait...you're talking about other people, aren't you?

We have a kid coming in next year who has already assaulted two aides and stabbed another kid in the chest (missing his heart by two inches) with a pair of scissors. He's eleven years old. They've told us that we basically have to outfit an entire classroom just for him, because he's too dangerous to have around other kids. And we can't get rid of him, because the word "autism" has become such a joke. Try and tell people that you have a violent, aggressive autistic kid in your class, and most people just smile and say "oh, my sister has an autistic kid! He's adorable!"

And so are you trying to blame the kid with autism, the one you "can't get rid of," for your frustration, or are you blaming the "autism" label itself?

Either way, stay the fark out of the classroom.
 
2012-04-25 05:34:29 PM  

Valiente: meathome: Valiente: DNRTFA(udio), but it occurs to me that an autistic boy with the name of "Akian" who is the son of a middle-aged animal rights activist (no bringing home the bacon, guy?) is about as perfect a recipe for a bully magnet as can be imagined.

A resurrected Jesus would tease this kid.

So that makes it right?

Wow... do you kick injured puppies in your spare time? I mean, they're pretty vulnerable too.

Quick update (I didn't see it in the scan of this thread) - everyone on tape has been fired. Link

Apparently it was an "internal personnel matter" until the father went public with it. Kind of hard to hide behind bureaucracy once it hits the press.

Groovy. Thanks for taking the bait I assumed was clearly marked "BAIIIIIIIIIIIT".

I left it on the first row of the short bus.


You gave me an opening to post the link identifying that the other teachers/aides were fired.

I needed an intro... you gave me one. Always "yes...and" when you're doing that.

/you need to learn when someone "gifts" you...
//see Mavent's troll for a good example of this
 
2012-04-25 05:53:03 PM  

meathome:
/you need to learn when someone "gifts" you...
//see Mavent's troll for a good example of this


I respect a good troll, but Mavent is just trying to white-knight these assholes (and perhaps rationalize his own inability to deal with a difficult student).
 
2012-04-25 06:09:07 PM  

Mavent: shortymac: What most people don't know is that there is a financial incentive to label kids with disorders because the school gets extra money from the government. It's one of the reasons why we have an explosion in ADD and Aspie diagnosis, they are both relatively "mild" (meaning they don't necessarily need an aide, special classroom, etc) but the school still gets a few thousand more in cash.

Thanks for pointing that out. I guess I just assumed that most people already understood this, but reading this thread, it's clear that they don't.

Every year, the number of kids flagged under "autism spectrum" doubles in my school district. Some of these kids clearly have no problem whatsoever aside from their parents. The school administrators don't care, because they get more money for the school, and the parents don't care, because they've managed to create a culture in which declaring your kid "autistic" is the new equivalent of naming them "Apple" or "Moon Unit". And frankly, even the SPED teachers don't care, because it's usually easier than dealing with legitimately disabled kids.

One unfortunate side effect though is that kids you really have Autism are being treated dismissively because of all the phoney cases. We have a kid coming in next year who has already assaulted two aides and stabbed another kid in the chest (missing his heart by two inches) with a pair of scissors. He's eleven years old. They've told us that we basically have to outfit an entire classroom just for him, because he's too dangerous to have around other kids. And we can't get rid of him, because the word "autism" has become such a joke. Try and tell people that you have a violent, aggressive autistic kid in your class, and most people just smile and say "oh, my sister has an autistic kid! He's adorable!"


I think you have to be in the system to understand that. If you've never been to an IEP meeting before you'll never know what goes on.

The manipulation from Admins behind the scene trying to convince parents to do shiat that isn't really helpful for their kid. If my Dad wasn't a doctor my brother wouldn't have gotten as far as he did. The system is just so messed up. :(

There's also a benefit to the parent as well. Kid gets time and a half on all tests for the rest of his academic career (regardless of whether it's actually helpful). It's also a "get out of jail free" card for everything. On top of it Adderall and similar meds will improve performance regardless if you actually have a problem or not.

I also blame Doctor Google for people self-diagnosing themselves, but there seems to be a troubling trend of diseasification of rather normal traits. It's common to say stuff "I'm OCD about this.", etc.

I wonder what it means for our society moving forward.

Also, that kid doesn't sound autistic. He's psychotic! Why isn't he at a mental health hospital? Mine has a school inside for our kids.
 
2012-04-25 07:24:48 PM  

Mavent: I see this finally made Fark. Here's the email I sent the guy after first reading the story:

After having read (and listened to) your article regarding your son, I thought you might be interested in a teacher's perspective on your story. Then again, perhaps not- you seem like a singularly self-interested individual, so it's possible that you're uninterested in any viewpoint other than your own. Yet still, after having dealt with SPED children for years, I feel the need to speak up.

First off, let me merely point out that in today's world, "autism" has become little more than a word parents use to justify their own need for attention. Either your child is autistic, in which case it's hard to believe your stories of what a bright, happy, well-adjusted child he is, or he's not. And if he's not, then you're a lousy parent, because autism isn't a label to lightly be slapped on a child, just because you think it's cool and trendy. It's a medical condition, typified by anti-social behavior and diminished learning capacity.

Oh yes, I know. You're likely one of the modern breed of parents that thinks Autism is a super-power. But see, therein lies the problem. You want all the attention of and drama that goes with being fawned over as you insist that your child is "autistic", but you don't want any of the responsibility of acknowledging that real Autism isn't fun, it isn't cute, and it's not an excuse for you to blame your kid's teachers for his limitations.

Now, imagine you're a teacher, and you have an autistic kid in your class that's being a problem. And the parent, one of these smug, uniformed, self-delusional types, keeps insisting that HIS kid is afflicted with MAGIC autism, the kind that turns the afflicted kid into an absolute angel with zero behavioral problems. Now imagine that you've done your job and reported these problems to the parent. But instead of addressing the issue, the parent behaves like a lunatic. Imagine that the guy goes as far as ...


Okay, so now we know you're just an asshole and not autistic. Got it.
 
2012-04-25 07:31:48 PM  

Mavent: JackieRabbit: Yeah, this whole thing is rather fishy, isn't it? I think dad is the problem. He's using his son for $$.

It's worse than that. He's using his kid to justify his own psychosis. Any SPED teacher can tell you that the number of parents claiming that their kids are "autistic" has increased by a factor of 1,000 over the past five years. Part of the problem is that the definition of the autism spectrum has been increased to include just about anything- your kid doesn't eat his veggies? Autism. Your kid is an insufferable brat? Autism. Your kid doesn't want to do homework? Autism. Hell, we see this here Online ever single week. In any thread about Autism, a minimum of twelve attention-whore morons will show up to tell us about their struggles with "Aspergers".

The problem isn't that these conditions don't exist- it's that they're being cheapened by idiots who want to use them as an excuse to avoid raising their kid to be an actual human being.


The real problem is the typical human (that's you), is moderately more intelligent than a monkey.
 
2012-04-25 08:06:06 PM  
My GF was a Special Ed teacher and I used to visit the classroom on a regular basis. She had a few crazy angry autistic kids that also had very low IQs. She'd come home bruised when they'd spontaneously freak out. And, of course, the parents thought their kids were little angels like this guy. He's full of shiat when he says the kid never freaks out at home. FULL. OF. SHIAT.

Other than the bastard comment, what did they say that was so horrible? When i was a kid the teachers farked with all of us all of the time. And WE UNDERSTOOD WHAT THEY WERE SAYING. OMFG they told the kid to "shut up" and "knock it off." WOW is that HARSH. The bastard comment was over the line but big farkin deal, write the teacher up or fine her a few days. It's not like the kid knows what the hell the word means.
 
2012-04-25 08:06:53 PM  
i was a special ed teacher for Learning Disabled and Emotionally Disturbed elementary school children; a great group of kids with genuinely nice parents.

Adults who treat children like this are horrid and vile; teachers who treat disabled children like this should be drug into the street and gutted, then fired.
 
2012-04-25 08:12:02 PM  

KidneyStone: When i was a kid the teachers farked with all of us all of the time. And WE UNDERSTOOD WHAT THEY WERE SAYING.


It's almost as if you didn't go to a special ed school at all and you're only pretending to be a spastic moron now.
 
2012-04-25 08:44:14 PM  

GT_bike: AnakinTWH: Lots of derping about "ARREST THE DAD FOR ILLEGAL WIRETAPPING!"

New Jersey, like many other states, is a "one-party consent" state for audio surveillance. As long as one person consents, it's legal. Being a minor, and autistic, I doubt any lawyer is gonna be able to say what the father did violated the way this law works, as he is the legal guardian. Also, any lawyer who does try is going to find it very difficult to get a judge or jury to agree with them that what he did violated wiretapping consent laws.

also public school, no reasonable expectation of privac


If the NJ law is like here in GA you are right. It is not illegal to record. However it is a felony to distribute the recording without consent of all parties.

There are also strict student privacy laws. And if, as some have speculated, the device was in the kids backpack then there's a good chance recordings were made in the room without the child being there do there's no consent at all. Felony again
 
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