ongbok: Uchiha_Cycliste: FTFA:"Evans also said the bill merely clarifies current law, which is necessary because women are sometimes attacked because of a their pregnancy."

bullshiat.

Its true. They're frequently attack by abortion doctors.

But seriously, I understand the intent of the law, but they have to work on the wording so that somebody that accidentally rears ends a pregnant woman in a car, and that accident cause her to have a miscarriage, doesn't get charged with murder. But it also seems that they are purposely leaving the wording ambiguous just so they can charge more people with murder.

The prosecutor would be required to prove knowledge of the pregnancy and intent end the pregnancy against the desires of the... host? Incubator?

There are states with similar laws (better worded laws) but there aren't a lot of convictions under those laws because of the necessary elements that the prosecutor is required to prove in order to establish the defendant violated the law.

Drtfa: could the biological father file a criminal complaint against the biological mother for an otherwise legal abortion?

Gyrfalcon: The bill pretty much excludes anything that happens to the woman without intent, so the senator who was worried secondhand smoke might be implicated seems to be inventing problems; otoh, deliberately causing the death of a fetus has always been part of just about every homicide law I've ever heard of. It's why we have to have abortion laws in the first place, to ALLOW abortions. Anyone who harms a pregnant woman deliberately and even inadvertently kills her baby has always been subject to a manslaughter charge; so this bill seems at best to be unnecessary.

It's that tacking on of the embryo that's troubling. It seems like a slanted way to attack abortion laws.

I would agree. If the intent behind the law is to provide additional protections to a wanted/desired fetus by criminalizing the termination of one then they need to draft the law in such a way as to exclude outside participants from being able to establish want/desire.

Even if they did - can you imagine the subsequent court cases in which the father files an injunction preventing the termination of a pregnancy? Even if the court rules in the woman's favor: the window for legal abortions are becoming increasingly narrowed.

It clearly criminalizes the death of ANY embryo, regardless of species, into a possible manslaughter charge.

And violates federal law.

themindiswatching: What's that one page that has stories about "pro-lifers" secretly getting abortions?

/if it was really about protecting the innocent, there wouldn't be any exemptions

White girls deserve to go to college.

TheJoe03: ongbok: But it also seems that they are purposely leaving the wording ambiguous just so they can charge more people with murder.

Yuuup, that's what our government has been so good at doing in the past 30 or so years, finding new ways of throwing Americans in jails and prisons. It's weird how little anyone that runs for office cares about that issue but I now expect the Democrats to be quiet on issues actual liberals and Democrats care and I also expect the GOP to actively and openly support the police state.

This is verifabily the case. With the increase of privatized prisons - owners of those businesses also donate to political campaigns.

And the use of such laws to prosecute women who fall down and miscarry has happened already, in Iowa, where a woman concerned that a fall had harmed her fetus was arrested and jailed on manslaughter charges because the doctors thought she had fallen down those stairs on purpose.

Lenny_da_Hog: fusillade762: Car_Ramrod: "There is a problem with people being killed because they're pregnant, or being assaulted," he said.

Wut? There is? I have never heard of such a trend.

Uchiha_Cycliste: FTFA:"Evans also said the bill merely clarifies current law, which is necessary because women are sometimes attacked because of a their pregnancy."

bullshiat.

Uchiha_Cycliste: also, really? really! you dicks... "because of a their pregnancy?" jesus...

Came here to say the same thing. They make it seem like there are roving gangs of thugs targeting pregnant women for Falcon Punches.

Well, we do have the occasional Fark-worthy story about the lonely woman who befriends the pregnant woman, then kills her, digs the baby out of her gut, and steals it.

/very creeeeeeepy stories...

But that would be punishable.

Murder 1 for the killing of the woman.
If the fetus survives the surgery then it's kidnapping.
If the fetus doesn't survive but does take a breath then there's a second degree charge.

But, many states already do have similar laws.

der Glitzkrieg: themindiswatching: What's that one page that has stories about "pro-lifers" secretly getting abortions?

/if it was really about protecting the innocent, there wouldn't be any exemptions

The only moral abortion is my abortion (new window)

That was a really awesome article

Car_Ramrod: Loucifer: What if the embryo is coming right at me? I can stand my ground, right?

That actually brings up a good question: a person knows the woman is pregnant. She attacks him, and in self defense he kills her, knowing full well the fetus will die as well. Is he prosecuted?

Rep. Joshua Evans, R-Greenbrier, the House sponsor, said district attorneys general would not bring charges "if the proof wasn't there" of an intent to cause harm to the embryo or fetus.

There is proof of intent to kill the woman, which would knowingly harm the fetus. What happens then?

Homicide during the commission of another felonious crime. Most states have this statute under murder in the xth degree.

Malivon: People who aren't having protected sex, who aren't married, and are just playing around are going to make that child's life a living hell, I've seen it happen. I live in Tennessee. I genuinely feel sorry for any child that has to live in that hell.

Parents who are thinking of having a child should consider one thing, "Can they grow up in a happy, loving home?" If you can't answer this with a straight face or answer it honestly, don't have a child. Please.

I'm so sick of irresponsible people having a child because it was a mistake (any child that isn't planned, is a mistake, I'm sorry if that offends someone). I feel sorry more for the child, I don't feel sorry for the parents. The child will have to grow up in a home that simply cannot support it.

Mistakes can be fixed if the home that they grow up in sees love, happiness, and other facets of life that the child should experience to make their childhood free from the experience that some children have to go through because the parents aren't loving, caring, and thoughtful individuals and are just seeking some form of outlet to get attention.

/protection, wear it - otherwise, don't fark and end up with a kid when you can't support it.
//end rant
///Why yes, I don't believe in some sky god - I believe in being responsible in the actions I take, bearing any consequence that may be the result of those actions, and making adjustments to ensure that the consequences are mitigated somehow.
////Also, love your children - let them grow up in a happy, loving place that isn't filled with a large amount uncertainty.

Well, the difficulty is when those we legally and socialy classify as irresponsible due to immaturity (teenagers). Just because they ended up in this overwhelmingly terrible situation doesn't mean they can grow the lacking maturity just because we insist on it.

There's a reason why every teenager isn't tried as an adult even if they commit an adult-like crime.

Remember folks, removing "Bible" from a military hotel room prep checklist is a violation of religious freedom

Not this

Ever

TheJoe03: FatalDischarge: When will this religion nonsense stop?

I honestly think they see the writing on the wall and realize their ideology wont win out in the long term, so they are trying to push as much as they can right now since this is their best shot at it. These wackos aren't that big of a part of Gen X or Y, so when the old folks die off so should their craziness.

Their ideology wins if they also end up limiting any democratic redress.

apparently this girl got elected in Tennessee.

The conservative teabagger war on women continues.

Bontesla: Drtfa: could the biological father file a criminal complaint against the biological mother for an otherwise legal abortion?

I think that'll be covered in a future "that biatch better have my baby" amendment.

Republicans: "A human embryo is life."

Democrats: "Not so fast."

Crabs_Can_Polevault: Bontesla: Drtfa: could the biological father file a criminal complaint against the biological mother for an otherwise legal abortion?

I think that'll be covered in a future "that biatch better have my baby" amendment.

Even if it doesn't - it is probably plausible for the father to file an injunction against the mother using these statute. By the time the dispute is resolved - her window for a lawful abortion is closed.

karnal: Republicans: "A human embryo is life."

Democrats: "Not so fast."

This law is meant to placate the legions of dumb, conservative "value-voters" in this state, nothing more. That is unless I missed something and we're experiencing a crime wave of fetus abductions by crazed, barren women.

Jake Havechek: The conservative teabagger war on women continues.

No, no. This is part of their war on reality. They want to criminalize behavior based on knowing something that is basically undetectable for the most part.

Life is Sacred. Exterminate Everyone.

kid_icarus

This law is meant to placate the legions of dumb, conservative "value-voters" in this state, nothing more. That is unless I missed something and we're experiencing a crime wave of fetus abductions by crazed, barren women.


Of course you missed something.....but we all come to expect that.
The law is to make sure that someone who shoots and kills a pregnant lady gets charged for two counts of murders, not just one......Democrats seem to think unborn babies have no rights.*


*but they think the burglar that breaks into your house and kills your family is a victim of society.

karnal: Republicans: "A human embryo is life."

Democrats: "Not so fast."

Republicans: A zygote is a person!

Democrats: Uh... How exactly are you defining 'person'? Cause it ain't with science. Or a rational argument. And apparently only includes women until they leave the womb...

Were about nine months away from the police breaking down my door, arresting me, and putting a crusty sweatsock into an evidence bag, aren't we?

karnal:
Of course you missed something.....but we all come to expect that.
The law is to make sure that someone who shoots and kills a pregnant lady gets charged for two counts of murders, not just one......Democrats seem to think unborn babies have no rights.*

So... they're intentionally trying to put more murderers back on the streets? Because the moment it got appealed to a federal court double jeopardy would come into play and cause the second charge to fail if the first had failed and vice-versa.

Wow, thanks for that idea, Tennessee, but I'm kind of more in favor of people that murder random pregnant women not having more free technicalities to get off on.

FTFA

"There is a problem with people being killed because they're pregnant, or being assaulted," he said.

Tennessee has the death penalty on the books already for regular murders. If people killing pregnant women is a big problem in the state they already have all the sentencing scope they require, any more is (puts on sunglasses) overkill.

And assault - an intentional aggrivated assault can already land someone in jail for 15 years. Use the sentencing already available, unless protecting women from violence isn't really your goal.



TheOnion: Since it excludes anything the pregnant woman or a doctor may do, I guess it is technically OK [...]
Yeah, on the surface they look nice, but the only point of the law is further an unconstitutional agenda.

The next step is to say "well, we don't let parents kill their children in any other cases, why do we have an exception in this case? After all we've clarified in law that an embryo is a Tennesean who deserved the protection of the law...

Deneb81


karnal: Republicans: "A human embryo is life."

Democrats: "Not so fast."

Republicans: A zygote is a person!

Democrats: Uh... How exactly are you defining 'person'? Cause it ain't with science. Or a rational argument. And apparently only includes women until they leave the womb...

More Like:

Republicans see it as life from the moment of conception....and Democrats think if that were true then where's their Child Tax credit for last year when the baby was conceived....where's the extra money they are entitled to?

So, women who miscarry or have stillbirths should be put to death by chucking huge rocks at their heads.

karnal: Deneb81


karnal: Republicans: "A human embryo is life."

Democrats: "Not so fast."

Republicans: A zygote is a person!

Democrats: Uh... How exactly are you defining 'person'? Cause it ain't with science. Or a rational argument. And apparently only includes women until they leave the womb...

More Like:

Republicans see it as life from the moment of conception....and Democrats think if that were true then where's their Child Tax credit for last year when the baby was conceived....where's the extra money they are entitled to?

Please tell me why Republicans care so much about "life" until the 9 months is up, then they don't want to hear from you

They don't care if you eat
They don't care if you have medical care
They don't care if you can read
They don't care if you have a place to live

Pro-life my ass.

To quote the late great Carlin, they want live babies so they can grow up to be dead soldiers.

Car_Ramrod: Rep. Joshua Evans, R-Greenbrier, the House sponsor, said district attorneys general would not bring charges "if the proof wasn't there" of an intent to cause harm to the embryo or fetus.

I like their "just take our word for it" approach to lawmaking. Very professional.

Evans also said the bill merely clarifies current law, which is necessary because women are sometimes attacked because of a their pregnancy.

"There is a problem with people being killed because they're pregnant, or being assaulted," he said.

Wut? There is? I have never heard of such a trend.

Pregnant women (and only pregnant women) are targeted, assaulted, and very rarely killed by those horrible abortion gang members.

The vile scum only look for innocent little babies to kill! It's a pandemic!

/best I could come up with
//this is pants on head retarded
///who the fark trusts an elected official who says 'we won't bring charges if it's not warranted'?!?!

karnal: kid_icarus

This law is meant to placate the legions of dumb, conservative "value-voters" in this state, nothing more. That is unless I missed something and we're experiencing a crime wave of fetus abductions by crazed, barren women.


Of course you missed something.....but we all come to expect that.
The law is to make sure that someone who shoots and kills a pregnant lady gets charged for two counts of murders, not just one......Democrats seem to think unborn babies have no rights.*

Sorry, kiddo, but I still don't see that as some major, pressing concern. The purpose of this law is still just to placate conservative retards in this state.
*but they think the burglar that breaks into your house and kills your family is a victim of society.

What the ideal Republican woman might look like.

karnal: kid_icarus

This law is meant to placate the legions of dumb, conservative "value-voters" in this state, nothing more. That is unless I missed something and we're experiencing a crime wave of fetus abductions by crazed, barren women.


Of course you missed something.....but we all come to expect that.
The law is to make sure that someone who shoots and kills a pregnant lady gets charged for two counts of murders, not just one......Democrats seem to think unborn babies have no rights.*


*but they think the burglar that breaks into your house and kills your family is a victim of society.

Citations?

LadyHawke: Darth Macho: Evans said that is not the case. He noted the measure explicitly excludes any harm to an embryo or fetus cause by the pregnant woman herself.

Sure. This year it says that. What about next year when you make another 'revision' to punish pregnant women whose lifestyle causes a miscarriage? Like smoking, or drinking, or working outside of the home. As we know, studies have shown that married women suffer fewer pregnancies than single mothers...

Glad I'm not a woman. I'd hate to know the law considers something inside me to have legal rights independent of, and possibly superior to, my own.

Think they'll use this law to go after the person who provided her the abortion? Technically the woman doesn't cause the harm when it takes place.

Technically maybe not, but she'd still be part of a conspiracy to commit murder.

Before women have their period, they must report for a vaginal probe to be sure no embryo has been implanted.

kid_icarus: This law is meant to placate the legions of dumb, conservative "value-voters" in this state, nothing more. That is unless I missed something and we're experiencing a crime wave of fetus abductions by crazed, barren women.

Its so disgusting to live in TN now. The wingnuts Repuds have control, they've redrawn traditional voting districts to serve the Republican candidates. Dumb gun laws, creationism and now this. On and on and on, I can't wait to move out of the South.

Jake Havechek: Before women have their period, they must report for a vaginal probe to be sure no embryo has been implanted.

I think I have a right to stand my ground until my rights are stripped. Then I will become my husband's property so technically he can stand his ground. Am I doing it right?

Considering the human body washes away many fertilized eggs over their lifetime wouldn't that make all women who has sex without protection a mass baby killing machines?

Car_Ramrod:

"There is a problem with people being killed because they're pregnant, or being assaulted," he said.

Wut? There is? I have never heard of such a trend.

It is true - women who are already in abusive relationships tend to experience a greater intensity of abuse if/when they get pregnant and in the worst cases this leads to murder.

However bills like this are more a form of concern trolling - you don't see the supporters of these bills fighting for tougher domestic violence laws, funding for womens shelters or public education to address domestic violence.

Bontesla: Jake Havechek: Before women have their period, they must report for a vaginal probe to be sure no embryo has been implanted.

I think I have a right to stand my ground until my rights are stripped. Then I will become my husband's property so technically he can stand his ground. Am I doing it right?

No, you have no rights, you never will have rights. Before 18 and/or marriage, your father or any other older male relative has rights over what you do and what you do with your body. Upon marriage these rights transfer to your husband.

"All we are trying to is punish that person for two counts of homicide or two counts of assault on that woman who has chosen to have her child," Beavers said.

Wait, wut.

"This deals with criminal behavior, by people who have harmed not one but two Tennesseans," Hill said.

I'd support legislation that didn't make harming a Tennessean a crime at all.

Bontesla

karnal: kid_icarus

This law is meant to placate the legions of dumb, conservative "value-voters" in this state, nothing more. That is unless I missed something and we're experiencing a crime wave of fetus abductions by crazed, barren women.


Of course you missed something.....but we all come to expect that.
The law is to make sure that someone who shoots and kills a pregnant lady gets charged for two counts of murders, not just one......Democrats seem to think unborn babies have no rights.*


*but they think the burglar that breaks into your house and kills your family is a victim of society.

Citations?

Really? You need proof that Liberals think the criminals are victims because society has failed to provide them with a good education or a good job?

Here is an example of a grandfather being arrested for holding burglar at gunpoint - in the great liberal state of New Hampshire.

RightHere

Jake Havechek: Bontesla: Jake Havechek: Before women have their period, they must report for a vaginal probe to be sure no embryo has been implanted.

I think I have a right to stand my ground until my rights are stripped. Then I will become my husband's property so technically he can stand his ground. Am I doing it right?

No, you have no rights, you never will have rights. Before 18 and/or marriage, your father or any other older male relative has rights over what you do and what you do with your body. Upon marriage these rights transfer to your husband.

What if I wear a fake mustache?

scumshine: kid_icarus: This law is meant to placate the legions of dumb, conservative "value-voters" in this state, nothing more. That is unless I missed something and we're experiencing a crime wave of fetus abductions by crazed, barren women.

Its so disgusting to live in TN now. The wingnuts Repuds have control, they've redrawn traditional voting districts to serve the Republican candidates. Dumb gun laws, creationism and now this. On and on and on, I can't wait to move out of the South.

Yeah, I know. I still say the GOP politicians involved do it to placate their base. It makes it appear that they're "taking a stand" for values, even if the proposed law has no chance of passing (like Stacy Campfields attempt a couple of years ago to pass a law that would require death certificates for every aborted fetus. Even he knew it would never pass, but it generated a lot of buzz and gave the value voters a hard-on for him).

Karac: Didn't one of these state pass or is trying to pass a law saying that an embryo is considered to have been created the day after the woman's last period? If you combine these two laws, then gutpunching a woman on Monday who then has sex on Wednesday and miscarries on next week would be a criminal offense.

Gutpunching a woman(or anyone else) is a criminal offense regardless. This ups it to murder.