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(Daily Mail)   Defamed by an anonymous poster on a forum? Profit   (dailymail.co.uk ) divider line
    More: Interesting, Stanford Law School, paraphilias, landmark ruling, Tarrant County, Clarksville, Ryan Calo, criminal trials, Rhonda Lesher  
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16606 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Apr 2012 at 6:41 AM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-25 08:51:34 AM  
Topix is just about the absolute dredges of the intarwebz world. And thus I love it.
 
2012-04-25 08:52:25 AM  

ArcadianRefugee: Gothnet: The thousands of defamatory comments were coming from a few IP addresses associated with the business of the husband of the woman who had accused them of sexual assault, of which they were cleared.

So, they were accused of sexual assault by a woman and were being dragged through the courts, her husband (or her on husband's company machines) posted a lot of defamatory stuff, they were cleared, then they sued. Seems fine to me.

Yeah, I don't see that as anything "OMG INTERNET PRIVACY IS DEAD!!" worthy.


...But it does lean in that direction.
Once they've opened up the door and brought American lawsuit culture to the internet, companies will make a business out of identifying "anonymous" users and the lawyers will have a field day trying to sue or settle for big rewards.

All we're arguing about from there is what constitutes harassment.
 
2012-04-25 08:54:08 AM  
Me and my old boss subpenaed Facebook and Verizon Wireless, so I'm totally getting a kick...

/Ex Army Paralegal "Legal Beagle"

/"Subpoena duces tecum"
 
2012-04-25 08:54:57 AM  

Skarekrough: Queensowntalia: I'mokwiththis.jpg.

Freedom of Speech doesn't include the freedom to ruin other people's lives.

If your life is ruined by a small number of hacks on a web board then you are either dealing with very effective hacks or you never really had much of a life to begin with.


I don't have a GED in law or anything so dont sue me.

//this is not really different than what happend to that Korean rapper and is no different than the birthers.
 
2012-04-25 08:57:30 AM  

AR 15-6: Me and my old boss subpenaed Facebook and Verizon Wireless, so I'm totally getting a kick...

/Ex Army Paralegal "Legal Beagle"

/"Subpoena duces tecum"


How difficult was this?
EIP
 
2012-04-25 09:00:04 AM  
Does this mean I can't say Casey Anthony is a babykiller? Or that OJ killed those people? Because those things are true.

/come at me bros
//good luck getting millions of dollars out of me
 
2012-04-25 09:00:31 AM  
The most interesting piece of the second article (linked at the bottom of TFA) is that AOL was unable to comply with the subpoena because they delete IP information after 90 days.

/AOL does something good?
//fascinating
 
2012-04-25 09:02:39 AM  
Everything I have ever posted is an ironic parody/satire.

Promise!
 
2012-04-25 09:04:17 AM  

jebusfreak: bob_ross: But my IP is 192.168.1.1?

I heard you suck balls, hairy, hairy balls. And that you enjoy licking up afterwards.

/Sue me


I heard that too and that he likes sitting down at restaurant tables before they have been cleared and finishing other peoples food because he is so cheap.
 
2012-04-25 09:05:20 AM  

germ78: This is bad news for fark alts and trolls.

/my IP is 127.0.0.1


Public??
 
2012-04-25 09:11:24 AM  
AbbeySomeone: AR 15-6: Me and my old boss subpenaed Facebook and Verizon Wireless, so I'm totally getting a kick...

/Ex Army Paralegal "Legal Beagle"

/"Subpoena duces tecum"

How difficult was this?
EIP

Well, considering it was a general court-martial about rape, fairly easy. There's a specific DA or DD Form for that (don't ask, I only used it twice), I type in the specifics. The judge advocate signs. Bam... unless they want to annoy their legal departments, they'll eventually comply.

In other news, Verizon Wireless actually has a special task force to deal emergency phone record requests within a couple days, as opposed to the freaking 2-3 weeks under a normal phone records request.

I totally got fist bumps for that sweet find,
 
2012-04-25 09:11:25 AM  

Parthenogenetic: libranoelrose: meow said the dog: Many of you who have defamed me for being the alternative of the other can expect the lawsuit through the Postal Service of the United States of America via the Certified Mail Signature Line very soon as you have given me the proverbial sixth finger shuffle.

lol

It's laughter-ol, dammit!


LM BUTTOCKS OFF.
 
2012-04-25 09:13:13 AM  
and they are going to collect the money...how?

i.dailymail.co.uk
 
2012-04-25 09:24:16 AM  
yeah go ahead and collect anything All they'll likely get is some toothbrushes and a hand full of pocket lint
 
2012-04-25 09:25:34 AM  

imontheinternet: [images3.wikia.nocookie.net image 400x400]

That's a huge verdict. Guess it's time to file bankruptcy.


Pretty much this. The plaintiffs can frame the judgement and hang it on the wall. But they'll probably have a hell of a time enforcing it.
 
2012-04-25 09:27:41 AM  

Skarekrough: If your life is ruined by a small number of hacks on a web board


"The jury in the defamation lawsuit heard that since the ultimately unfounded rape allegations were heard in 2008, a total of 25,000 comments on 70 threads on Topix message boards were posted onto the Internet."

That can and did a lot of damage to these people's lives. You Google a business looking for info on it and come up with that many negative comments it sticks with you, even if you keep in mind that they may be unfounded.
 
2012-04-25 09:28:41 AM  
We're still free to sexually harass and solicit BIE from any woman who appears in a Fark thread and isn't a complete she-beast, right?
 
2012-04-25 09:29:22 AM  

swahnhennessy: Those people are murderers, pedophiles and drug-takers.

And so are you.


Hey now, I don't do drugs!

*sues you into oblivion*
 
2012-04-25 09:29:38 AM  
The truth is the ultimate defense. Unfortunately the trolls weren't telling the truth.
 
2012-04-25 09:36:49 AM  
A Texan couple who were anonymously abused on an internet forum have won $13.8 million in damages for defamation - In what could be a landmark ruling for freedom of speech online.

For, against - same thing.
 
2012-04-25 09:45:40 AM  
Relevant to his interests:

cdn2.dailycaller.com
 
2012-04-25 09:45:54 AM  
My mother is going to sue the bejeesus out of each and every one of you freaks.

/I bet she hasn't banged at least half of you. And none for money.
 
2012-04-25 09:46:23 AM  
The internet is not private. You are not anonymous. Your IP address can probably be tracked to you if you give the legal system or the government reason to care enough.

At a certain level, defamation is reason to care enough.

When someone gets prosecuted on serious charges, then cleared, but suffers serious damages to their reputation and serious losses in the process of clearing themselves, then that's the kind of situation that makes for enough defamation to get the system to care about tracking your IP address back to you.

Or, in this case, it makes the system care enough to provide the necessary government intimidation to require internet providers to cough up the IP address information to the concerned third parties.

Anonymity on the internet is a figleaf that you have only so long as you stay unimportant enough for your identity not to matter---OR you have to be technically astute, creative, lucky, and exercise foresight. It also helps to have resources of some sort.

Most people don't have enough of importance (even importance to themselves) to say to have it matter that much to them. 99.9% of trolls are just in love with the sound of their own "voice."

Where trolls run afoul of defamation law is when their self-importance and their desire for attention leads them to make false accusations against others---the the troll gets unlucky enough to be believed.

Trolls make false accusations all the time. People made false accusations all the time before the internet, and for the same AW reasons. Generally nobody bothers with a defamation suit unless people start believing the lies so that the lies are hurting your life or have done a lot of ruin to your life.

Trolls are just like non-internet AWs when they spread nasty lies about somebody. The trolls get sued when regular people with common sense start believing the lies.

Oh---That word "troll"---my 16 year old daughter tells me the meaning of the word has shifted. Twenty years ago, a troll was a sociopathic asshole who would start off a discussion sounding like a member of the opposition who was almost reasonable but whose real purpose there was to gradually punch people's buttons until they were frothing at the mouth. Someone who'd argue a point until it was disproven, then drop it and go on to another point until that was disproven, and then who'd go back to start and re-iterate the first point as if the first discussion had never happened.

My daughter tells me now that "trolling" leans less towards sociopathically annoying people and more towards an element of clever, ironic, or funny--just picking at them, bad form if it's malicious instead of artful.

So anyway, in this post I'm using "troll" in the twenty years ago sense where it meant someone spewing hatred and bile who wanted to fan the flames and create as much more hatred and bile and anger as they could stoke up. A thoroughly negative person.

(I don't know if my daughter's version is the current definition in use on Fark or not. She's younger than the average Farkette.)
 
2012-04-25 09:46:35 AM  

mod3072: We're still free to sexually harass and solicit BIE from any woman who appears in a Fark thread and isn't a complete she-beast, right?


Yeah, but don't defame them by calling them attention whores, or else your ass is getting sued for millions!
 
2012-04-25 09:46:51 AM  

trippdogg: A Texan couple who were anonymously abused on an internet forum have won $13.8 million in damages for defamation - In what could be a landmark ruling for freedom of speech online.

For, against - same thing.


it may not be the most normal use of the word 'for' under a normal dictionary, but it's an introduction of the dative, which 'for' serves to introduce. occasionally, the word's syntactical meaning has more bearing than it's otherwise, out of context semantic meaning.

I would have preferred "landmark ruling on freedom of speech online." as that enjoys a more elegant syntactical and semantic harmony. although, it isn't very euphonic.

but, if you're not into the whole brevity thing, "regarding" could have worked. turn away from the declension of freedom and just avoid the complexity with a participle. although, then you'd have had a much more active sentence, giving the 'ruling' all sorts of verbal power.
 
2012-04-25 09:52:06 AM  

Julie Cochrane: My daughter tells me now that "trolling" leans less towards sociopathically annoying people and more towards an element of clever, ironic, or funny--just picking at them, bad form if it's malicious instead of artful.


Your daughter told you trolling is a art form?
 
2012-04-25 09:53:19 AM  

imontheinternet: Julie Cochrane: My daughter tells me now that "trolling" leans less towards sociopathically annoying people and more towards an element of clever, ironic, or funny--just picking at them, bad form if it's malicious instead of artful.

Your daughter told you trolling is a art form?


My husband says that too.

I still don't believe him. :)
 
2012-04-25 09:53:55 AM  

Julie Cochrane: My daughter tells me now that "trolling" leans less towards sociopathically annoying people and more towards an element of clever, ironic, or funny


No, that's just what trolls tell themselves and others to try to hide their sociopathy...

On the other hand, many people foolishly mislabel obvious jokes and sarcasm as "trolls" too, so I can see how one might be confused over the meaning... But, making a joke is not "trolling" anyone, no matter what anyone claims...
 
2012-04-25 09:54:46 AM  
Before this case Topix made money by charging people $25.00 to get posts deleted.

After being ordered by the Court to hand over the IPs they changed that policy and started half assed moderating their boards.
 
2012-04-25 09:58:37 AM  
Huh. Why would message boards even keep logs of IP addresses? I mean, you need it for the duration of the session but there's no reason to keep it after the browser closes. If you need to retain unique machine IDs for some reason that's what browser cookies are for.
 
2012-04-25 09:59:52 AM  

RDixon: Before this case Topix made money by charging people $25.00 to get posts deleted.

After being ordered by the Court to hand over the IPs they changed that policy and started half assed moderating their boards.


I'd never heard of this forum before today.
 
2012-04-25 10:05:05 AM  
THIS IS DREWS KATRINA!!!!

/04-25-12
//NEVAR FORGET!!!!
 
2012-04-25 10:05:53 AM  
Granted it came from my IP, but having a lot of monkeys around sure seems like a good defense.
 
2012-04-25 10:08:46 AM  

TravisBickle62: I got drawn into an internet defamation suit once and I hadn't even said anything about the dude, he just sued everyone who posted on the thread.


K
 
2012-04-25 10:09:09 AM  

AbbeySomeone: RDixon: Before this case Topix made money by charging people $25.00 to get posts deleted.

After being ordered by the Court to hand over the IPs they changed that policy and started half assed moderating their boards.

I'd never heard of this forum before today.


Just a guess but prolly 90% of posts made on Topix boards are made by trolls.

Trolls trolling trolls would be a good description of it.
 
2012-04-25 10:24:24 AM  

Jim_Callahan: Huh. Why would message boards even keep logs of IP addresses? I mean, you need it for the duration of the session but there's no reason to keep it after the browser closes. If you need to retain unique machine IDs for some reason that's what browser cookies are for.


So that they can make a reasonable effort to avoid being held responsible for what some asshat posts on their board.

In this case, they were able to deflect the attention of the injured party to the posters. Without that information, the board would have been the defendant. It also comes in handy when some asshat threatens to kill the president, blow up his school, or commit some other noteworthy crime.
 
2012-04-25 10:28:08 AM  

swahnhennessy: Those people are murderers, pedophiles and drug-takers.

And so are you.


I am NOT a murderer.
 
2012-04-25 10:30:59 AM  
 
2012-04-25 10:38:11 AM  

sniderman: meow said the dog: Many of you who have defamed me for being the alternative of the other can expect the lawsuit through the Postal Service of the United States of America via the Certified Mail Signature Line very soon as you have given me the proverbial sixth finger shuffle.

[i49.tinypic.com image 396x309]

/lawsuit ahoy!


Please don't respond to meow, it makes meow's post show up on my FARK.
 
2012-04-25 10:39:29 AM  

beta_plus: Relevant to his interests:

[cdn2.dailycaller.com image 640x400]


Could be interesting if he tries to sue every tube on the Internet.
All those twitter death threats are going strait into the library of congress,and all the related forum posts on him won't disappear. Even if he's found to be innocent of any wrongdoing his name is still besmirched for all time.

A lawsuit, at just a dollar a tweet, would be big money.
 
2012-04-25 10:39:55 AM  
They done back traced them

Consequences will never be the same.
 
2012-04-25 10:44:38 AM  

WTFDYW: TravisBickle62: I got drawn into an internet defamation suit once and I hadn't even said anything about the dude, he just sued everyone who posted on the thread.

K


Dart guy, right? Did he ever actually file against you, or just email slam you and wave his tiny dick in your general direction?
 
2012-04-25 10:45:32 AM  

TravisBickle62: I got drawn into an internet defamation suit once and I hadn't even said anything about the dude, he just sued everyone who posted on the thread.


i865.photobucket.com
 
2012-04-25 10:45:41 AM  

Durendal: I was going to react with incredulity, but then I read further...

The jury in the defamation lawsuit heard that since the ultimately unfounded rape allegations were heard in 2008, a total of 25,000 comments on 70 threads on Topix message boards were posted onto the Internet.

Christ, that's a lot of posts.

They discovered that 70 percent of the postings on Topix came from only a narrow number of IP addresses.

As it turns out, a handful of people responsible for over 15,000 of these. Now that is getting well above the level of your garden-variety internet asshat and going into the level of total lifeless trolltard.

The amount is still absurd, but then again, the article doesn't go into great detail as to how this affected them in real life (apparently it did), or whether it was the news stories about the charges in general that forced them to move or a result of this kind of asshattery. If it was a direct result, then I understand the amount demanded. If it's not really clear what stacked up, then this is a stupid amount of money.


If I'm reading this right at least two of the people they sued where the ones responsible for making up the charges that got them arrested in the first place. That would have a lot to do with why they got slammed as hard as they did, and as for damages, beyond the inchoate ones like "damage to reputation" (how much is a reputation worth?) there are pretty solid ones like

' the scurrilous, vile, defamatory statements that caused us to be indicted, to be tried, that caused us to move out of town and my wife to lose her business.'


so you have legal fees, moving expenses, loss of the business income, etc


What I'd like to know is WHY these folks decided to falsely accuse them and destroy thier lives like that?
 
2012-04-25 10:46:16 AM  

namegoeshere:

Dart guy, right? Did he ever actually file against you, or just email slam you and wave his tiny dick in your general direction?


Damnit, one minute.
 
2012-04-25 10:46:45 AM  

allthesametome: Bankruptcy would not provide relief from this judgment. They may be able to get out of all their other debt (if they have debt), but this isn't going anywhere.


Nope, that judgement goes bye bye too.
 
2012-04-25 10:48:48 AM  

The Irresponsible Captain: Was there an official response to the rumor that someone raped and murdered a girl in 1990?

/referenced to avoid lawsuits


I'm not saying that Glenn Beck raped and murdered a girl in 1990 but the rumor is going around. I'm just asking questions.
 
2012-04-25 10:58:05 AM  

chewielouie: allthesametome: Bankruptcy would not provide relief from this judgment. They may be able to get out of all their other debt (if they have debt), but this isn't going anywhere.

Nope, that judgement goes bye bye too.


I may have spoken too soon. While they judgements may not be discharged by filing bankruptcy, the Plaintiffs will most likely never see any of that money.
 
2012-04-25 10:58:23 AM  

Maud Dib: TravisBickle62: I got drawn into an internet defamation suit once and I hadn't even said anything about the dude, he just sued everyone who posted on the thread.

[i865.photobucket.com image 579x434]


HA HA HA

I can't believe I almost forgot about the letter M or dino or whatever you wanted to call himself.
 
2012-04-25 11:00:23 AM  

Julie Cochrane: The internet is not private. You are not anonymous. Your IP address can probably be tracked to you if you give the legal system or the government reason to care enough.

At a certain level, defamation is reason to care enough.

When someone gets prosecuted on serious charges, then cleared, but suffers serious damages to their reputation and serious losses in the process of clearing themselves, then that's the kind of situation that makes for enough defamation to get the system to care about tracking your IP address back to you.

Or, in this case, it makes the system care enough to provide the necessary government intimidation to require internet providers to cough up the IP address information to the concerned third parties.

Anonymity on the internet is a figleaf that you have only so long as you stay unimportant enough for your identity not to matter---OR you have to be technically astute, creative, lucky, and exercise foresight. It also helps to have resources of some sort.

Most people don't have enough of importance (even importance to themselves) to say to have it matter that much to them. 99.9% of trolls are just in love with the sound of their own "voice."

Where trolls run afoul of defamation law is when their self-importance and their desire for attention leads them to make false accusations against others---the the troll gets unlucky enough to be believed.

Trolls make false accusations all the time. People made false accusations all the time before the internet, and for the same AW reasons. Generally nobody bothers with a defamation suit unless people start believing the lies so that the lies are hurting your life or have done a lot of ruin to your life.

Trolls are just like non-internet AWs when they spread nasty lies about somebody. The trolls get sued when regular people with common sense start believing the lies.

Oh---That word "troll"---my 16 year old daughter tells me the meaning of the word has shifted. Twenty years ago, a troll was a sociopathi ...


There used to be a poster on Usenet forums named Joe Dunphy who was the international gold standard for trolls. It didn't matter WHAT the topic was, Turkish history, child rearing, Unix networking, if Joe wandered into the forum, within days there would be a pitched, vitriolic flame war raging in the forum with Joe on one side and nearly everybody else on the other.

After a while I just assumed this was some sort fo high-concept Andy Kaufman-esque performance art for him and just chuckled when I ran across another of his 'gems". Then, completely by chance, I met him in a bar in Chicago. He was just the same in real life as he was on the internet, two seconds away from boiling over with anger about nearly any topic imaginable. How he managed not to get his ass kicked on a regular basis by drunken bar patrons I will never know.
 
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