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(Wonkette)   Girl so mad school wouldn't let her go to prom just because her Confederate flag dress was "inappropriate and offensive" even though they totally told her that beforehand   (wonkette.com) divider line 363
    More: Asinine, Dollar General, big and tall, South Dakota Fanning  
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7135 clicks; posted to Politics » on 24 Apr 2012 at 7:11 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-25 08:55:38 AM

Silly Jesus: Jake Havechek: It means "southern", not "racist",

No, it means "traitors who declared war on the Union".

To you...

There's this weird phenomenon where certain things have different meanings to different people. Part of that phenomenon is that one group of people doesn't get to decide what that meaning is for another group of people.


You have your own personal dictionary of what words mean?
 
2012-04-25 08:56:14 AM
It's a dress, who gives a rats ass? If you are so uptight about some teenage girl wearing a flag that looks like a confederate flag, you really need to spend less time making rules and more time trying to hose that pesky sand out of your vagina.
 
2012-04-25 09:01:57 AM

EWreckedSean: It's a dress, who gives a rats ass? If you are so uptight about some teenage girl wearing a flag that looks like a confederate flag, you really need to spend less time making rules and more time trying to hose that pesky sand out of your vagina.


So you wouldn't mind if she showed up in swastika dress?

She should have known better but went for the attention whoring.
 
2012-04-25 09:09:17 AM
The heritage is hate. There is absolutely nothing noble symbolized by that flag.
 
2012-04-25 09:12:58 AM
How to stump a redneck:

Q: why was the Civil War fought?

Redneck: to preserve states' rights

Q: states' rights to do exactly what?

Redneck: ???
 
2012-04-25 09:17:48 AM

Silly Jesus: Jake Havechek: It means "southern", not "racist",

No, it means "traitors who declared war on the Union".

To you...

There's this weird phenomenon where certain things have different meanings to different people. Part of that phenomenon is that one group of people doesn't get to decide what that meaning is for another group of people.


That is true. But here's the thing: that works both ways. To you, it symbolizes a proud Southern heritage. But you need to be aware that to a large segment of the people you interact with, it is a strong symbol of hatred. You may be sending a message of tradition and hospitality, but that is not the message that is being received. Communication depends on both sender and receiver understanding the same message. Perhaps, you (in a generic sense) need to find a symbol that conveys your message more effectively.
 
2012-04-25 09:24:42 AM

Alphax: Silly Jesus: Jake Havechek: It means "southern", not "racist",

No, it means "traitors who declared war on the Union".

To you...

There's this weird phenomenon where certain things have different meanings to different people. Part of that phenomenon is that one group of people doesn't get to decide what that meaning is for another group of people.

You have your own personal dictionary of what words mean?


I didn't realize that the meanings of flags to various people were defined in the dictionary.
 
2012-04-25 09:30:49 AM

spongeboob: jso2897: Maybe next year she can try a Nazi flag, or maybe a Viet Cong flag. Nothing shows patriotism like sporting the flag of a hostile foreign power.

Really why would she want to wear a Viet Cong flag, they are not white.

Plus they were Communist or Socialist or something.


plus they won!

plus they hadn't racism as main part of their ideology
 
2012-04-25 09:36:39 AM

Beaver1224: Silly Jesus: Jake Havechek: It means "southern", not "racist",

No, it means "traitors who declared war on the Union".

To you...

There's this weird phenomenon where certain things have different meanings to different people. Part of that phenomenon is that one group of people doesn't get to decide what that meaning is for another group of people.

That is true. But here's the thing: that works both ways. To you, it symbolizes a proud Southern heritage. But you need to be aware that to a large segment of the people you interact with, it is a strong symbol of hatred. You may be sending a message of tradition and hospitality, but that is not the message that is being received. Communication depends on both sender and receiver understanding the same message. Perhaps, you (in a generic sense) need to find a symbol that conveys your message more effectively.


I, and my family, have been heavily involved in the preservation of civil war artifacts and civil war sites as well as civil war reenactments as a means of paying to preserve historical structures etc. To me the flag is about history. Yes, the civil war was obviously fought to preserve states rights primarily as they related to slavery, but, my having a battle flag from that war in my house doesn't mean that I am a racist or that I agree with slavery. To me it is not a symbol of hate. It's a historical 'document.'

Why should someone else - who in my experience is generally not from the south and has no way of knowing what the flag means to southerners outside of the simplistic stereotypical p.c. nonsense of 'he's southern so he must be racist, and look, there's the flag to prove it - get to determine the meaning of the flag for everyone?
 
2012-04-25 09:38:12 AM

Lenny_da_Hog: That dress makes her look fat.


I don't think it's the dress, I think it's the fat.
The dress just makes her look red.
 
2012-04-25 09:41:06 AM

Jake Havechek: How to stump a redneck:

Q: why was the Civil War fought?

Redneck: to preserve states' rights

Q: states' rights to do exactly what?

Redneck: ???


Meanwhile, in the north...

www.ymca.org.au

2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-04-25 09:50:54 AM

Silly Jesus: Jake Havechek: How to stump a redneck:

Q: why was the Civil War fought?

Redneck: to preserve states' rights

Q: states' rights to do exactly what?

Redneck: ???

Meanwhile, in the north...


To be fair, much (if not most) of the North was pretty mean to the black kids too.

/Black Laws in Illinois were repealed just after the Civil War
//Didn't change many people's opinions right away though
 
2012-04-25 09:55:17 AM

Silly Jesus: Beaver1224: Silly Jesus: Jake Havechek: It means "southern", not "racist",

No, it means "traitors who declared war on the Union".

To you...

There's this weird phenomenon where certain things have different meanings to different people. Part of that phenomenon is that one group of people doesn't get to decide what that meaning is for another group of people.

That is true. But here's the thing: that works both ways. To you, it symbolizes a proud Southern heritage. But you need to be aware that to a large segment of the people you interact with, it is a strong symbol of hatred. You may be sending a message of tradition and hospitality, but that is not the message that is being received. Communication depends on both sender and receiver understanding the same message. Perhaps, you (in a generic sense) need to find a symbol that conveys your message more effectively.

I, and my family, have been heavily involved in the preservation of civil war artifacts and civil war sites as well as civil war reenactments as a means of paying to preserve historical structures etc. To me the flag is about history. Yes, the civil war was obviously fought to preserve states rights primarily as they related to slavery, but, my having a battle flag from that war in my house doesn't mean that I am a racist or that I agree with slavery. To me it is not a symbol of hate. It's a historical 'document.'

Why should someone else - who in my experience is generally not from the south and has no way of knowing what the flag means to southerners outside of the simplistic stereotypical p.c. nonsense of 'he's southern so he must be racist, and look, there's the flag to prove it - get to determine the meaning of the flag for everyone?


images3.wikia.nocookie.net

Just a historical document symbolizing beer and strudel, right?
 
2012-04-25 09:58:38 AM

cavedonkey: Silly Jesus: Jake Havechek: How to stump a redneck:

Q: why was the Civil War fought?

Redneck: to preserve states' rights

Q: states' rights to do exactly what?

Redneck: ???

Meanwhile, in the north...

To be fair, much (if not most) of the North was pretty mean to the black kids too.

/Black Laws in Illinois were repealed just after the Civil War
//Didn't change many people's opinions right away though


Remember kids, indentured servitude > slavery
 
2012-04-25 10:08:21 AM

Silly Jesus: Beaver1224: Silly Jesus: Jake Havechek: It means "southern", not "racist",

No, it means "traitors who declared war on the Union".

To you...

There's this weird phenomenon where certain things have different meanings to different people. Part of that phenomenon is that one group of people doesn't get to decide what that meaning is for another group of people.

That is true. But here's the thing: that works both ways. To you, it symbolizes a proud Southern heritage. But you need to be aware that to a large segment of the people you interact with, it is a strong symbol of hatred. You may be sending a message of tradition and hospitality, but that is not the message that is being received. Communication depends on both sender and receiver understanding the same message. Perhaps, you (in a generic sense) need to find a symbol that conveys your message more effectively.

I, and my family, have been heavily involved in the preservation of civil war artifacts and civil war sites as well as civil war reenactments as a means of paying to preserve historical structures etc. To me the flag is about history. Yes, the civil war was obviously fought to preserve states rights primarily as they related to slavery, but, my having a battle flag from that war in my house doesn't mean that I am a racist or that I agree with slavery. To me it is not a symbol of hate. It's a historical 'document.'

Why should someone else - who in my experience is generally not from the south and has no way of knowing what the flag means to southerners outside of the simplistic stereotypical p.c. nonsense of 'he's southern so he must be racist, and look, there's the flag to prove it - get to determine the meaning of the flag for everyone?


You've missed my point. No one has - indeed, no one can - deterimne the meaning of a symbol for everyone. However, your message is consistently misunderstood. If you want understanding, you need to communicate clearly. The symbol you've chosen to communicate your message of heritage has multiple meanings and is therefore unclear.
 
2012-04-25 10:14:51 AM

Beaver1224: Silly Jesus: Beaver1224: Silly Jesus: Jake Havechek: It means "southern", not "racist",

No, it means "traitors who declared war on the Union".

To you...

There's this weird phenomenon where certain things have different meanings to different people. Part of that phenomenon is that one group of people doesn't get to decide what that meaning is for another group of people.

That is true. But here's the thing: that works both ways. To you, it symbolizes a proud Southern heritage. But you need to be aware that to a large segment of the people you interact with, it is a strong symbol of hatred. You may be sending a message of tradition and hospitality, but that is not the message that is being received. Communication depends on both sender and receiver understanding the same message. Perhaps, you (in a generic sense) need to find a symbol that conveys your message more effectively.

I, and my family, have been heavily involved in the preservation of civil war artifacts and civil war sites as well as civil war reenactments as a means of paying to preserve historical structures etc. To me the flag is about history. Yes, the civil war was obviously fought to preserve states rights primarily as they related to slavery, but, my having a battle flag from that war in my house doesn't mean that I am a racist or that I agree with slavery. To me it is not a symbol of hate. It's a historical 'document.'

Why should someone else - who in my experience is generally not from the south and has no way of knowing what the flag means to southerners outside of the simplistic stereotypical p.c. nonsense of 'he's southern so he must be racist, and look, there's the flag to prove it - get to determine the meaning of the flag for everyone?

You've missed my point. No one has - indeed, no one can - deterimne the meaning of a symbol for everyone. However, your message is consistently misunderstood. If you want understanding, you need to communicate clearly. The symbol you've chosen to comm ...


I can't explain the meaning I get from it to every moron who just prefers to assume that since I am southern I am a racist who loves slavery. There's too much stupid to overcome.
 
2012-04-25 10:16:21 AM

Silly Jesus: Beaver1224: Silly Jesus: Beaver1224: Silly Jesus: Jake Havechek: It means "southern", not "racist",

No, it means "traitors who declared war on the Union".

To you...

There's this weird phenomenon where certain things have different meanings to different people. Part of that phenomenon is that one group of people doesn't get to decide what that meaning is for another group of people.

That is true. But here's the thing: that works both ways. To you, it symbolizes a proud Southern heritage. But you need to be aware that to a large segment of the people you interact with, it is a strong symbol of hatred. You may be sending a message of tradition and hospitality, but that is not the message that is being received. Communication depends on both sender and receiver understanding the same message. Perhaps, you (in a generic sense) need to find a symbol that conveys your message more effectively.

I, and my family, have been heavily involved in the preservation of civil war artifacts and civil war sites as well as civil war reenactments as a means of paying to preserve historical structures etc. To me the flag is about history. Yes, the civil war was obviously fought to preserve states rights primarily as they related to slavery, but, my having a battle flag from that war in my house doesn't mean that I am a racist or that I agree with slavery. To me it is not a symbol of hate. It's a historical 'document.'

Why should someone else - who in my experience is generally not from the south and has no way of knowing what the flag means to southerners outside of the simplistic stereotypical p.c. nonsense of 'he's southern so he must be racist, and look, there's the flag to prove it - get to determine the meaning of the flag for everyone?

You've missed my point. No one has - indeed, no one can - deterimne the meaning of a symbol for everyone. However, your message is consistently misunderstood. If you want understanding, you need to communicate clearly. The symbol you've ch ...


What noble sentiments does the Confederate Flag symbolize to you? What message are you intending to send with it's display?
 
2012-04-25 10:18:03 AM

Philip Francis Queeg: Silly Jesus: Beaver1224: Silly Jesus: Jake Havechek: It means "southern", not "racist",

No, it means "traitors who declared war on the Union".

To you...

There's this weird phenomenon where certain things have different meanings to different people. Part of that phenomenon is that one group of people doesn't get to decide what that meaning is for another group of people.

That is true. But here's the thing: that works both ways. To you, it symbolizes a proud Southern heritage. But you need to be aware that to a large segment of the people you interact with, it is a strong symbol of hatred. You may be sending a message of tradition and hospitality, but that is not the message that is being received. Communication depends on both sender and receiver understanding the same message. Perhaps, you (in a generic sense) need to find a symbol that conveys your message more effectively.

I, and my family, have been heavily involved in the preservation of civil war artifacts and civil war sites as well as civil war reenactments as a means of paying to preserve historical structures etc. To me the flag is about history. Yes, the civil war was obviously fought to preserve states rights primarily as they related to slavery, but, my having a battle flag from that war in my house doesn't mean that I am a racist or that I agree with slavery. To me it is not a symbol of hate. It's a historical 'document.'

Why should someone else - who in my experience is generally not from the south and has no way of knowing what the flag means to southerners outside of the simplistic stereotypical p.c. nonsense of 'he's southern so he must be racist, and look, there's the flag to prove it - get to determine the meaning of the flag for everyone?

[images3.wikia.nocookie.net image 640x384]

Just a historical document symbolizing beer and strudel, right?


images.sodahead.com
 
2012-04-25 10:20:48 AM

Silly Jesus: Philip Francis Queeg: Silly Jesus: Beaver1224: Silly Jesus: Jake Havechek: It means "southern", not "racist",

No, it means "traitors who declared war on the Union".

To you...

There's this weird phenomenon where certain things have different meanings to different people. Part of that phenomenon is that one group of people doesn't get to decide what that meaning is for another group of people.

That is true. But here's the thing: that works both ways. To you, it symbolizes a proud Southern heritage. But you need to be aware that to a large segment of the people you interact with, it is a strong symbol of hatred. You may be sending a message of tradition and hospitality, but that is not the message that is being received. Communication depends on both sender and receiver understanding the same message. Perhaps, you (in a generic sense) need to find a symbol that conveys your message more effectively.

I, and my family, have been heavily involved in the preservation of civil war artifacts and civil war sites as well as civil war reenactments as a means of paying to preserve historical structures etc. To me the flag is about history. Yes, the civil war was obviously fought to preserve states rights primarily as they related to slavery, but, my having a battle flag from that war in my house doesn't mean that I am a racist or that I agree with slavery. To me it is not a symbol of hate. It's a historical 'document.'

Why should someone else - who in my experience is generally not from the south and has no way of knowing what the flag means to southerners outside of the simplistic stereotypical p.c. nonsense of 'he's southern so he must be racist, and look, there's the flag to prove it - get to determine the meaning of the flag for everyone?

[images3.wikia.nocookie.net image 640x384]

Just a historical document symbolizing beer and strudel, right?

[images.sodahead.com image 210x293]


Huh, what's that you say?Tthe Nazi flag has intrinsic values connected to it? Fancy that.
 
2012-04-25 10:21:29 AM

Philip Francis Queeg: Just a historical document symbolizing beer and strudel, right?


To me it represents the cool uniforms the bad guys in Raiders of the Lost Ark wore.
 
2012-04-25 10:21:40 AM

The Bestest: Silly Jesus: Also, THIS is the "Stars and Bars"...

[upload.wikimedia.org image 640x355]

THIS is called "The Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia"

[upload.wikimedia.org image 600x600]

as evidenced by the old

[www.netstate.com image 339x227]

and current Georgia state flag

[www.50states.com image 300x180]


Yeah - when they unveiled that I immediately saw that GA was issuing a giant "fark you" to everyone who pressured them to change the flag. The only way it's not a worse is in recognition. I appreciate a well-crafted troll, and the troll in me considers the, "In God We Trust," to be a sublime cherry on top to a troll ice cream sundae, which is appropriate given the nuts in Georgia.

That flag is a thing of Troll Beauty.
 
2012-04-25 10:22:54 AM
Since when did you think that a simple explanation would work on redneck retards
 
2012-04-25 10:24:02 AM

Jake Havechek: It means "southern", not "racist",

No, it means "traitors who declared war on the Union".


I prefer to think of them as Democrats.
 
2012-04-25 10:26:42 AM

what_now: You idiots know you got your asses thoroughly kicked, right? And 150 years later your standard of living is STILL below the rest of the country?

I don't really blame this girl- her parents named her Texanna after all.


Well her daddy actually wanted to name her Texas Ranger, but everybody knows that Texas is a boys name
 
2012-04-25 10:30:04 AM
I wonder how many years Hate Radio will whine about this.
 
2012-04-25 10:32:26 AM

Silly Jesus:
[images.sodahead.com image 210x293]


I just smarted your "meanwhile in the north" post, but you are mis-applying Godwin's Law here. Godwin himself stated that mere mention of the Nazis was not sufficient to invoke the law, even if the example was wrong. He's irritated to the point where he said that odds are, whoever invokes "Godwin's Law" is the one who lost the argument.

The Nazi comparison is, of course, inappropriate, because to be a Nazi meant subscribing to the oppression of Jews, but being pro-slavery was not a necessary component of being a Confederate. There was only one meaning for the Nazi flag for both sides of the argument. With the Battle Flag, there are three types of people: the racists, those who see the flag as their heritage, and the people who cannot distinguish between the two. After all, they all look alike.
 
2012-04-25 10:32:55 AM

Aarontology: FirstNationalBastard: Aarontology: I'd fight battle at her Manassas Gap, if you know what I'm saying.

I'd rather pound her Deep Bottom.

Fort Sumpter? More like Fort Sumptuous!


I'd show her why my nickname is "Stone Mountain"
 
2012-04-25 10:34:42 AM

Silly Jesus: Beaver1224: Silly Jesus: Beaver1224: Silly Jesus: Jake Havechek: It means "southern", not "racist",

No, it means "traitors who declared war on the Union".

To you...

There's this weird phenomenon where certain things have different meanings to different people. Part of that phenomenon is that one group of people doesn't get to decide what that meaning is for another group of people.

That is true. But here's the thing: that works both ways. To you, it symbolizes a proud Southern heritage. But you need to be aware that to a large segment of the people you interact with, it is a strong symbol of hatred. You may be sending a message of tradition and hospitality, but that is not the message that is being received. Communication depends on both sender and receiver understanding the same message. Perhaps, you (in a generic sense) need to find a symbol that conveys your message more effectively.

I, and my family, have been heavily involved in the preservation of civil war artifacts and civil war sites as well as civil war reenactments as a means of paying to preserve historical structures etc. To me the flag is about history. Yes, the civil war was obviously fought to preserve states rights primarily as they related to slavery, but, my having a battle flag from that war in my house doesn't mean that I am a racist or that I agree with slavery. To me it is not a symbol of hate. It's a historical 'document.'

Why should someone else - who in my experience is generally not from the south and has no way of knowing what the flag means to southerners outside of the simplistic stereotypical p.c. nonsense of 'he's southern so he must be racist, and look, there's the flag to prove it - get to determine the meaning of the flag for everyone?

You've missed my point. No one has - indeed, no one can - deterimne the meaning of a symbol for everyone. However, your message is consistently misunderstood. If you want understanding, you need to communicate clearly. The symbol you've chosen to comm ...

I can't explain the meaning I get from it to every moron who just prefers to assume that since I am southern I am a racist who loves slavery. There's too much stupid to overcome.


Let me get this straight.

You don't like stupid people but you live in the south ?
 
2012-04-25 10:38:07 AM

Bob16: I wonder how many years Hate Radio will whine about this.


The First Amendment?
 
2012-04-25 10:38:29 AM

Magorn: what_now: You idiots know you got your asses thoroughly kicked, right? And 150 years later your standard of living is STILL below the rest of the country?

I don't really blame this girl- her parents named her Texanna after all.

Well her daddy actually wanted to name her Texas Ranger, but everybody knows that Texas is a boys name


Her real name is Ludey Mae Suggins.
 
2012-04-25 10:38:48 AM

Philip Francis Queeg: Silly Jesus: Philip Francis Queeg: Silly Jesus: Beaver1224: Silly Jesus: Jake Havechek: It means "southern", not "racist",

No, it means "traitors who declared war on the Union".

To you...

There's this weird phenomenon where certain things have different meanings to different people. Part of that phenomenon is that one group of people doesn't get to decide what that meaning is for another group of people.

That is true. But here's the thing: that works both ways. To you, it symbolizes a proud Southern heritage. But you need to be aware that to a large segment of the people you interact with, it is a strong symbol of hatred. You may be sending a message of tradition and hospitality, but that is not the message that is being received. Communication depends on both sender and receiver understanding the same message. Perhaps, you (in a generic sense) need to find a symbol that conveys your message more effectively.

I, and my family, have been heavily involved in the preservation of civil war artifacts and civil war sites as well as civil war reenactments as a means of paying to preserve historical structures etc. To me the flag is about history. Yes, the civil war was obviously fought to preserve states rights primarily as they related to slavery, but, my having a battle flag from that war in my house doesn't mean that I am a racist or that I agree with slavery. To me it is not a symbol of hate. It's a historical 'document.'

Why should someone else - who in my experience is generally not from the south and has no way of knowing what the flag means to southerners outside of the simplistic stereotypical p.c. nonsense of 'he's southern so he must be racist, and look, there's the flag to prove it - get to determine the meaning of the flag for everyone?

[images3.wikia.nocookie.net image 640x384]

Just a historical document symbolizing beer and strudel, right?

[images.sodahead.com image 210x293]

Huh, what's that you say?Tthe Nazi flag has intrinsic values con ...


rlv.zcache.com

www.native-indian-tribes.com

www.inminds.com

blog.loving-long-island.com
 
2012-04-25 10:40:06 AM

DamnYankees: I gotta be honest, when I see people do this, all I can think of is cruelty. This girl is cruel. Doesn't remotely care what that flag means to a huge swath of people - she's indifferent to it, which is about as damning as it gets.


Maybe it's part of my transformation from Republican to Democrat, but I remember when I decided, sadly, that it's inappropriate to wave that flag: see, I'm Lithuanian, and sometime around 2000, there was this Russian protest with about 100 or so people marching to call for a return to the "good old days" of the Soviet Union. They were flying the old hammer-and-sickle, and I recall thinking that these people simply are incapable of seeing what oppression it caused and how that flag made other people feel. I realized the same was true of Confederate flags.

I never owned a battle flag, but after that, even the Stars and Bars that hung in my room never came out of its box again.
 
2012-04-25 10:44:33 AM

Silly Jesus: Beaver1224: Silly Jesus: Jake Havechek: It means "southern", not "racist",

No, it means "traitors who declared war on the Union".

To you...

There's this weird phenomenon where certain things have different meanings to different people. Part of that phenomenon is that one group of people doesn't get to decide what that meaning is for another group of people.

That is true. But here's the thing: that works both ways. To you, it symbolizes a proud Southern heritage. But you need to be aware that to a large segment of the people you interact with, it is a strong symbol of hatred. You may be sending a message of tradition and hospitality, but that is not the message that is being received. Communication depends on both sender and receiver understanding the same message. Perhaps, you (in a generic sense) need to find a symbol that conveys your message more effectively.

I, and my family, have been heavily involved in the preservation of civil war artifacts and civil war sites as well as civil war reenactments as a means of paying to preserve historical structures etc. To me the flag is about history. Yes, the civil war was obviously fought to preserve states rights primarily as they related to slavery, but, my having a battle flag from that war in my house doesn't mean that I am a racist or that I agree with slavery. To me it is not a symbol of hate. It's a historical 'document.'

Why should someone else - who in my experience is generally not from the south and has no way of knowing what the flag means to southerners outside of the simplistic stereotypical p.c. nonsense of 'he's southern so he must be racist, and look, there's the flag to prove it - get to determine the meaning of the flag for everyone?


The problem is that you choose to fly that historical document. I don't fly the Imperial Japanese flag because I am not Japanese and found the actions of Imperial Japan detestable.

So when you display the Confederate flag, I take it as a sign that you do not find the action of the Confederacy detestable. I'm not saying that the Confederacy is all bad, but you have to take the good with the bad. And so if you take pride in that Confederate heritage, I take it as you feeling that the good outweighs the bad, which I disagree with.

Besides, that is the flag of traitors.
 
2012-04-25 10:46:02 AM

vygramul: Silly Jesus:
[images.sodahead.com image 210x293]

I just smarted your "meanwhile in the north" post, but you are mis-applying Godwin's Law here. Godwin himself stated that mere mention of the Nazis was not sufficient to invoke the law, even if the example was wrong. He's irritated to the point where he said that odds are, whoever invokes "Godwin's Law" is the one who lost the argument.

The Nazi comparison is, of course, inappropriate, because to be a Nazi meant subscribing to the oppression of Jews, but being pro-slavery was not a necessary component of being a Confederate. There was only one meaning for the Nazi flag for both sides of the argument. With the Battle Flag, there are three types of people: the racists, those who see the flag as their heritage, and the people who cannot distinguish between the two. After all, they all look alike.


Exactly. Ignorant people can't separate the meanings of the Confederate flag. It's much easier mentally to just lump everyone together as backwards racists. Hence the point of my posting the pictures of Custer's part in the genocide of the Native Americans under the banner of the American flag. To me, what people are doing to the Confederate flag would be the same as me calling anyone flying the American flag pro genocide and racist toward Native Americans. It is a part of the history of the flag. But, obviously, the flag has other meanings.
 
2012-04-25 10:46:55 AM

Silly Jesus: Custer stuff



You won't find me arguing that the US flag isn't offensive to Native Americans.
 
2012-04-25 10:47:31 AM
We haven't given BP enough time to rid us of the great curse of southerners. Be patient and encourage them to eat lots of local seafood.
 
2012-04-25 10:48:52 AM

Publikwerks: Silly Jesus: Beaver1224: Silly Jesus: Jake Havechek: It means "southern", not "racist",

No, it means "traitors who declared war on the Union".

To you...

There's this weird phenomenon where certain things have different meanings to different people. Part of that phenomenon is that one group of people doesn't get to decide what that meaning is for another group of people.

That is true. But here's the thing: that works both ways. To you, it symbolizes a proud Southern heritage. But you need to be aware that to a large segment of the people you interact with, it is a strong symbol of hatred. You may be sending a message of tradition and hospitality, but that is not the message that is being received. Communication depends on both sender and receiver understanding the same message. Perhaps, you (in a generic sense) need to find a symbol that conveys your message more effectively.

I, and my family, have been heavily involved in the preservation of civil war artifacts and civil war sites as well as civil war reenactments as a means of paying to preserve historical structures etc. To me the flag is about history. Yes, the civil war was obviously fought to preserve states rights primarily as they related to slavery, but, my having a battle flag from that war in my house doesn't mean that I am a racist or that I agree with slavery. To me it is not a symbol of hate. It's a historical 'document.'

Why should someone else - who in my experience is generally not from the south and has no way of knowing what the flag means to southerners outside of the simplistic stereotypical p.c. nonsense of 'he's southern so he must be racist, and look, there's the flag to prove it - get to determine the meaning of the flag for everyone?

The problem is that you choose to fly that historical document. I don't fly the Imperial Japanese flag because I am not Japanese and found the actions of Imperial Japan detestable.

So when you display the Confederate flag, I take it as a sign t ...


I hope you don't have an American flag.

blogs.villagevoice.com
 
2012-04-25 10:49:50 AM

Brytanica1: If you are flying it, and you are a racist, then you're an asshole because of your racism.


I kind kind of get flying it if you are from the south. I don't agree with it, all the parts about losing side racism, etc are right, but at least you can make the case that there is a cultural connection.

What I don't get is the people from the north who fly it. Just go with the klan symbol man, you aren't fooling anyone.
 
2012-04-25 10:50:13 AM

Philip Francis Queeg: Silly Jesus: Custer stuff


You won't find me arguing that the US flag isn't offensive to Native Americans.


So if you have one you're an ignorant racist and should be compared to Nazi's?
 
2012-04-25 10:51:31 AM

Publikwerks: Silly Jesus: Beaver1224: Silly Jesus: Jake Havechek: It means "southern", not "racist",

No, it means "traitors who declared war on the Union".

To you...

There's this weird phenomenon where certain things have different meanings to different people. Part of that phenomenon is that one group of people doesn't get to decide what that meaning is for another group of people.

That is true. But here's the thing: that works both ways. To you, it symbolizes a proud Southern heritage. But you need to be aware that to a large segment of the people you interact with, it is a strong symbol of hatred. You may be sending a message of tradition and hospitality, but that is not the message that is being received. Communication depends on both sender and receiver understanding the same message. Perhaps, you (in a generic sense) need to find a symbol that conveys your message more effectively.

I, and my family, have been heavily involved in the preservation of civil war artifacts and civil war sites as well as civil war reenactments as a means of paying to preserve historical structures etc. To me the flag is about history. Yes, the civil war was obviously fought to preserve states rights primarily as they related to slavery, but, my having a battle flag from that war in my house doesn't mean that I am a racist or that I agree with slavery. To me it is not a symbol of hate. It's a historical 'document.'

Why should someone else - who in my experience is generally not from the south and has no way of knowing what the flag means to southerners outside of the simplistic stereotypical p.c. nonsense of 'he's southern so he must be racist, and look, there's the flag to prove it - get to determine the meaning of the flag for everyone?

The problem is that you choose to fly that historical document. I don't fly the Imperial Japanese flag because I am not Japanese and found the actions of Imperial Japan detestable.

So when you display the Confederate flag, I take it as a sign that you do not find the action of the Confederacy detestable. I'm not saying that the Confederacy is all bad, but you have to take the good with the bad. And so if you take pride in that Confederate heritage, I take it as you feeling that the good outweighs the bad, which I disagree with.

Besides, that is the flag of traitors.


Only if you insist on living in the reality based community.
 
2012-04-25 10:51:44 AM

Silly Jesus: vygramul: Silly Jesus:
[images.sodahead.com image 210x293]

I just smarted your "meanwhile in the north" post, but you are mis-applying Godwin's Law here. Godwin himself stated that mere mention of the Nazis was not sufficient to invoke the law, even if the example was wrong. He's irritated to the point where he said that odds are, whoever invokes "Godwin's Law" is the one who lost the argument.

The Nazi comparison is, of course, inappropriate, because to be a Nazi meant subscribing to the oppression of Jews, but being pro-slavery was not a necessary component of being a Confederate. There was only one meaning for the Nazi flag for both sides of the argument. With the Battle Flag, there are three types of people: the racists, those who see the flag as their heritage, and the people who cannot distinguish between the two. After all, they all look alike.

Exactly. Ignorant people can't separate the meanings of the Confederate flag. It's much easier mentally to just lump everyone together as backwards racists. Hence the point of my posting the pictures of Custer's part in the genocide of the Native Americans under the banner of the American flag. To me, what people are doing to the Confederate flag would be the same as me calling anyone flying the American flag pro genocide and racist toward Native Americans. It is a part of the history of the flag. But, obviously, the flag has other meanings.


So again I ask, what are the noble sentiments that you believe are symbolized by the Confederate flag? What are those other meanings that you feel override the negative connotations?
 
2012-04-25 10:54:08 AM

vygramul: The Nazi comparison is, of course, inappropriate, because to be a Nazi meant subscribing to the oppression of Jews, but being pro-slavery was not a necessary component of being a Confederate. There was only one meaning for the Nazi flag for both sides of the argument. With the Battle Flag, there are three types of people: the racists, those who see the flag as their heritage, and the people who cannot distinguish between the two. After all, they all look alike.


What a load.
You can make the same arguments about the Nazi's you are making for the Confederacy. The Germans saw the Nazi's as restoring the national power and dignity of Germany after the crippling depression that losing WWI left them with. The Nazi's didn't run around spouting their nonsense about race purity and whatnot until much much later. However, in hindsight it is easy to see what the Nazi's were. And that Germans are smart and realize that the symbols and history of the third Reich are far more negative than positive.

You want to celebrate a heritage of slavery and treason, that's fine. But don't expect me to sit here and not ridicule you for it.
 
2012-04-25 10:56:03 AM

liam76: Brytanica1: If you are flying it, and you are a racist, then you're an asshole because of your racism.

I kind kind of get flying it if you are from the south. I don't agree with it, all the parts about losing side racism, etc are right, but at least you can make the case that there is a cultural connection.

What I don't get is the people from the north who fly it. Just go with the klan symbol man, you aren't fooling anyone.


Had one in my room in college. Just liked the design. I'm a northerner and didn't really draw a connection to slavery or that sort of thing until a friend of mine from NC came by the room and did a wtf? Explained it to me so I took it down.
Then I burned a cross on the quad in front of that farker's dorm to teach him a lesson.

/CSB
//last part not true
 
2012-04-25 10:58:24 AM

Silly Jesus: Exactly. Ignorant people can't separate the meanings of the Confederate flag. It's much easier mentally to just lump everyone together as backwards racists. Hence the point of my posting the pictures of Custer's part in the genocide of the Native Americans under the banner of the American flag. To me, what people are doing to the Confederate flag would be the same as me calling anyone flying the American flag pro genocide and racist toward Native Americans. It is a part of the history of the flag. But, obviously, the flag has other meanings


The confederate flag came about as a counter to the American flag in the civil war. Its existence overwhelmingly springs from the desire of the south to keep slaves. The same case can't be made for the American flag.
 
2012-04-25 10:59:34 AM

Publikwerks: vygramul: The Nazi comparison is, of course, inappropriate, because to be a Nazi meant subscribing to the oppression of Jews, but being pro-slavery was not a necessary component of being a Confederate. There was only one meaning for the Nazi flag for both sides of the argument. With the Battle Flag, there are three types of people: the racists, those who see the flag as their heritage, and the people who cannot distinguish between the two. After all, they all look alike.

What a load.
You can make the same arguments about the Nazi's you are making for the Confederacy. The Germans saw the Nazi's as restoring the national power and dignity of Germany after the crippling depression that losing WWI left them with. The Nazi's didn't run around spouting their nonsense about race purity and whatnot until much much later. However, in hindsight it is easy to see what the Nazi's were. And that Germans are smart and realize that the symbols and history of the third Reich are far more negative than positive.

You want to celebrate a heritage of slavery and treason, that's fine. But don't expect me to sit here and not ridicule you for it.


I think the Nazi flag is far more shocking and offensive to a lot more people than the Confederate one. Possibly because, as Americans, most of the time we see the Confederate flag it isn't in an evil context. Every time you see a Nazi flag, it is. I don't think it is fair to draw a straight comparison for that reason. As I mentioned earlier, I had the battle flag hanging in my dorm for a time. I never would have even considered doing that with a Nazi flag because the subconscious association is wholly evil.
 
2012-04-25 11:01:19 AM

Silly Jesus: I hope you don't have an American flag.


I do, but I also will accept that people may be critical of me and my nations flag because my nation has done some crappy things. And you don't have to look as far back as the Native Americans.

Hell, just look at Japanese interment camps.
or the bombing of civilians in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan.

I think the good outweighs the bad, but I also don't pretend that some really horrible things are done in the name of America.
 
2012-04-25 11:07:33 AM

sweetmelissa31: My daughter Massachusella wore a sickle and hammer dress to prom.


Goddammit that's funny.

+1
 
2012-04-25 11:09:24 AM

Philip Francis Queeg: So again I ask, what are the noble sentiments that you believe are symbolized by the Confederate flag? What are those other meanings that you feel override the negative connotations?


That's a good question. I'd have to say that I am having a hard time articulating it in concrete terms. Suffice to say that one significant aspect is that the South really did kick the North's ass in tons of battles when the North's numerical and technological superiority should have carried through. They feel like a hypothetical college football team that only lost against the Packers in overtime. People would be saying to them, "It took the Union Packers FIVE YEARS QUARTERS to beat you? Seriously?"

As a result, everything "Southern" becomes innately superior to anything "Northern". The food is better, the language more honest and humble, religious piety, and greater military prowess. (Seriously, to crow about the Union winning would be like bragging on the Packers for having beat the Tarheels in overtime. You really don't want to look past that "W" or it gets embarrassing.)

I can tell you this: few Southerners fly that flag with even a subconscious approval of slavery.
 
2012-04-25 11:14:35 AM

Nabb1: what_now: You idiots know you got your asses thoroughly kicked, right? And 150 years later your standard of living is STILL below the rest of the country?

I think you might be overreacting to one white trash attention whore. I've spent four decades of life in the South, and I can honestly say this is the first time I've heard of a girl trying to fashion a prom dress out of the stars 'n bars. Not to mention that dress is a bit short for a prom dress. It looks more like a cocktail dress. This girl is just trashy all around.


As a Northerner I'm happy to join in and heckle your rednecks as you laugh with us at our hicks. Or did I get my flavors of white trash reversed?
 
2012-04-25 11:15:27 AM

vygramul: Philip Francis Queeg: So again I ask, what are the noble sentiments that you believe are symbolized by the Confederate flag? What are those other meanings that you feel override the negative connotations?

That's a good question. I'd have to say that I am having a hard time articulating it in concrete terms. Suffice to say that one significant aspect is that the South really did kick the North's ass in tons of battles when the North's numerical and technological superiority should have carried through. They feel like a hypothetical college football team that only lost against the Packers in overtime. People would be saying to them, "It took the Union Packers FIVE YEARS QUARTERS to beat you? Seriously?"

As a result, everything "Southern" becomes innately superior to anything "Northern". The food is better, the language more honest and humble, religious piety, and greater military prowess. (Seriously, to crow about the Union winning would be like bragging on the Packers for having beat the Tarheels in overtime. You really don't want to look past that "W" or it gets embarrassing.)

I can tell you this: few Southerners fly that flag with even a subconscious approval of slavery.


So if the "heritage" symbolized is based entirely on the events of 1860-1865, should not the treason and slavery of that period be included?
 
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