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(The Hill)   "If Obama continues to lose Catholics by the margin the Pew poll suggests, that means he could lose the key swing states of Florida, Ohio, Colorado and Iowa"   (thehill.com ) divider line
    More: Obvious, Obama administration, pew poll, Catholic Association, Iowa, Ohio, Catholics, Colorado, United States Conference of Catholic Bishops  
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1268 clicks; posted to Politics » on 24 Apr 2012 at 11:48 AM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-24 01:14:36 PM  

Lord_Baull: EWreckedSean: Lord_Baull: EWreckedSean: tnpir: And YOU try to understand this, which I'll say even slower: HOW. Newspaper companies pay taxes, that doesn't infringe on freedom of press. So how is a church paying taxes an infringement of free exercise? And cite examples if you can actually come up with any.

Seriously, stop being a retard.

chaoswolf: EWreckedSean: Yes actually, it does. What happens if a religion can't afford to pay it's taxes genius?

What happens when any other business can't pay its taxes? Again, this will not in any way stop a citizen from worshiping their god of choice.

Actually it will. Catholicism especially involves the following of sacraments, which require church infrastructure outside of praying alone in your room.


PRAYING IN YOUR ROOM IS STILL THE ABILITY TO WORSHIP THE GOD OF YOUR CHOICE, IDIOT!
In fact, Jesus said quite clearly that's how it should be done anyways. You have read the Bible, haven't you? Do I need to list a citation?

Really, you can receive Baptism, Communion, the Eucharist, Penance, Anointing of the Sick, Marriage and Holy Orders all from your room?


And he sayeth, "LET THY GOALPOSTS BE MOVED." And they were moved.


And by the way, you've never read the bible.

Try me.


Really, how is your Koine Greek?
 
2012-04-24 01:15:00 PM  

RyogaM: tartie_pants: My mom has stopped going to church after 50+ years. She said she was tired of all the talk about abortion and birth control and protecting children from a hierarchy that did nothing to protect thousands of young boys. Not to mention she also felt the church had boiled down it's social role to that one issue forsaking anti-war and anti-poverty. I told her welcome to the church of the lapse our pews are way more full than the ones you are used to.

When I was growing up in Dayton, Ohio, there were at least three full-time Catholic churches all with schools. All three have now been consolidated into one church/school. The Catholic church is dying, at least in America.


The only thing keeping our Catholic schools going is that MA still doesn't require full day K and many of the school offer academic pre schools at a low cost. So you have 50 kids and 4 classes of 3 yo and then you get to 12 8th graders.
 
2012-04-24 01:15:31 PM  

EWreckedSean: Lord_Baull: EWreckedSean: Please quote the part of said amendment you refer to that says what you think it says.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"


Bwahahahahahahaaaaa! So, because the gov't can't establish a religion, and persons can worship anyone they choose, that makes it illegal to tax a church business. Tard.

Yes actually, it does. What happens if a religion can't afford to pay it's taxes genius?


The church goes under, but your right, as guaranteed by the 1st Amendment, to practice whatever religious belief you choose, remains unbroken.

/probably too many commas, oh well
 
2012-04-24 01:15:53 PM  

I alone am best: I'm glad to see so many liberals want unions to be taxed and the separation of church and state to be abolished.


Arguing against preferential treatment for religious organizations is exactly the same as advocating for the abolition of the separation of church and state.
 
2012-04-24 01:16:01 PM  

chaoswolf: EWreckedSean: What profits exactly? Which part of non-profit organization is confusing to you?

The part where "non-profit" is a lie.


The last I checked the Catholic church wasn't paying out dividends...
 
2012-04-24 01:17:11 PM  

I alone am best: chaoswolf: EWreckedSean: What profits exactly? Which part of non-profit organization is confusing to you?

The part where "non-profit" is a lie.

Citation needed.


See: Worth of Vatican City
See: Average salary of megachurch pastors.

Then STFU for being a retard.
 
2012-04-24 01:17:27 PM  
"Beware of practicing your piety before men in order to be seen by them; for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven. Thus, when you give alms, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by men. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you give alms, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your alms may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you. And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by men. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you." (Matthew 6:1-6 RSV)


How is any of the bolded taken out of context?
How is explaining to the crowd what the words to the lord's prayer relevant?
 
2012-04-24 01:17:28 PM  

Lord_Baull: Nabb1: Lord_Baull: PRAYING IN YOUR ROOM IS STILL THE ABILITY TO WORSHIP THE GOD OF YOUR CHOICE, IDIOT!
In fact, Jesus said quite clearly that's how it should be done anyways.

No it isn't. I know a lot of people like to argue it is, but that wasn't the point of that admonition if you read the entirety of the passage, not just cherry picked that quote up, and I don't think for a second you actually have read that. You probably cribbed it from the countless times it has been parroted and tucked it away, but the whole point of that famous sermon had to do with how God knows true piety from false showings of piety done by people wanting to make a big show to others. He was not saying, "Thou shalt never pray in public." It's a pretty shallow interpretation of that passage. If you continue reading, Jesus goes on to lead the crowd in what is known by some as "The Lord's Prayer." ("Our father...") You're wrong, and it's a completely ignorant notion.


What?


Yes, when you say that you are wrong. The point of the whole sermon eluded you, most likely because you've never read it. Not that I think you care. But when you tell people of faith essentially to shut up based on that, you're wrong, and even anyone with a passing knowledge of the context of that knows you're of base. I know you've never read the chapter in it's entirety, and I know you don't care, because any other interpretation than the erroneous one of the solitary nugget you've committed to memory won't suit your purpose. The sermon was about how God knows whether you are truly pious or not.
 
2012-04-24 01:17:51 PM  

EWreckedSean: chaoswolf: EWreckedSean: What profits exactly? Which part of non-profit organization is confusing to you?

The part where "non-profit" is a lie.

The last I checked the Catholic church wasn't paying out dividends...


Last I checked profit and dividend were not the same thing.
 
2012-04-24 01:17:51 PM  

EWreckedSean: gimmegimme: EWreckedSean: chaoswolf: EWreckedSean: chaoswolf: EWreckedSean: Actually it will. Catholicism especially involves the following of sacraments, which require church infrastructure outside of praying alone in your room.

Then the priest can get off of his fat, lazy, kiddie-diddling ass and go to your house to help you with your symbolic cannibalism.

What priest? You've eliminated the church infrastructure, which includes the priests.

Bullshiat. Taxing a church on its profits will not in ANY way eliminate the church's infrastructure. If a church can't survive off of its tithes then it's a worthless business model and the free market will deal with it accordingly. Forcing it to pay taxes as any other business doesn't change that fact.

What profits exactly? Which part of non-profit organization is confusing to you?

What helping the poor might look like:

[upload.wikimedia.org image 640x359]

No profit at all...

It is an impressive church, but in the end, it is still a church.


Is that the kind of facility through which a tax-exempt organization should operate? Do similarly opulent religious facilities really help the companies to accomplish their stated works?

Most not-for-profits aren't equipped with their own child rape facilitators, either:

4.bp.blogspot.com

www.infiniteunknown.net

///I know...I know. You're going to point out that there isn't much profit in child rape.
 
2012-04-24 01:18:24 PM  

EWreckedSean: chaoswolf: EWreckedSean: What profits exactly? Which part of non-profit organization is confusing to you?

The part where "non-profit" is a lie.

The last I checked the Catholic church wasn't paying out dividends...


Then what's that plate of money they hand out every week?
 
2012-04-24 01:18:38 PM  

turbidum: ginandbacon: They vote their conscience. Isn't that the ultimate redress?

Sorry. That was rather flip. There is a long history of the laity pushing back on the Church's official doctrine and even clergy have gone against the Bishops (allowing nuns to officiate at christenings and so on.) Disobedience is almost an undeclared virtue for Catholics at all levels. Certainly, few of them have any problem ignoring rants from the pulpit once they get into the voting booth. The GOP is making a very big mistake here.

Oh, I have no doubt the laity are not the proverbial sheeple. And if I had to choose between dealing with Catholics and fundies, I'd choose Catholics every time.

I'm just saying that it is not unfair to burden the laity with the viewpoints of their leaders if the laity is unwilling to take a stand while continuing to support the Church.

For example, when that Susan G. Komen stuff happened recently, no one blamed the innumerable people who have supported the Komen foundation because they spoke out loudly and swiftly. If they had remained silent (while continuing to support Komen), they would have shared some culpability in the decisions effected by the Komen leadership.


I think I get the point you are making, but I would be a little reluctant to compare supporters of a single-issue charity to the adherents of a very complicated system of faith that has immortal souls at it's foundation. It's a bit like comparing the way people talk about their sports teams vs. their families. Not quite the same thing.
 
2012-04-24 01:19:37 PM  

Snarfangel: EWreckedSean: chaoswolf: EWreckedSean: What profits exactly? Which part of non-profit organization is confusing to you?

The part where "non-profit" is a lie.

The last I checked the Catholic church wasn't paying out dividends...

Then what's that plate of money they hand out every week?


An indulgent pile of tip money.
 
2012-04-24 01:19:56 PM  

Lord_Baull: "Beware of practicing your piety before men in order to be seen by them; for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven. Thus, when you give alms, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by men. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you give alms, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your alms may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you. And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by men. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you." (Matthew 6:1-6 RSV)


How is any of the bolded taken out of context?
How is explaining to the crowd what the words to the lord's prayer relevant?


Google searched it, didn't you?
 
2012-04-24 01:20:29 PM  

EWreckedSean: tnpir: EWreckedSean: tnpir: EWreckedSean: 1st amendment, and yes. As soon as you start taxing churches, you've violated the free exercise clause.

You CANNOT be serious. Dare I ask how you reached that conclusion? Or do you have the same GED in Law as our resident legal expert clown?

Try and understand this. I'll say it slowly. Once you put a tax requirement on a religion, you've made religion a pay to play organization, which is a violation of free exercise.

And YOU try to understand this, which I'll say even slower: HOW. Newspaper companies pay taxes, that doesn't infringe on freedom of press. So how is a church paying taxes an infringement of free exercise? And cite examples if you can actually come up with any.

Seriously, stop being a retard.

Newspaper companies are taxed on profit, not on freedom of speech. A news paper is available for tax exempt status so long as it is non-profit based.


Good f'ing Lord, you're straight out of the John Bolton School of Debate. You have no evidence or reason to back up anything you're saying other than a BELIEF that you're right.

The Tax Code has absolutely nothing to do with the First Amendment. If you can't see the obviousness of that, I don't know what else to tell you.
 
2012-04-24 01:21:09 PM  

I alone am best: downpaymentblues: I alone am best: Why would they have to pay taxes? The church can mess with the government all they want. I was unaware that they were bound by the constitution to stay out of it. Oh wait, they are not bound by constitutional limitations where the government is.

Where in the Constitution does it say churches are guaranteed tax exempt status no matter what they do?

In the first amendment. Jeffersons letter to the Danbury baptists and the intent of the amendment to be "separation of church and state."

I alone am best: SacriliciousBeerSwiller: I alone am best: qorkfiend: EWreckedSean: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Diogenes: In late January, priests in scores of churches across the country read letters from the pulpit urging congregants to contact members of Congress to oppose the new rule.

Larry Cirignano, a Catholic activist, said evangelical groups such as the Christian Coalition had sent out direct mail to raise money to push back against the Obama administration.

And speaking of encroachment.

When do these political organizations lose their tax exempt status?

As soon as the free amendment is over turned.

Which amendment is tax exemption guaranteed under?

The first. It was common law long before churches had to be 501c3 orginizations which only happened in the mid 50's.

Please quote the part of said amendment you refer to that says what you think it says.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

How about all of it? But mostly the bolded. See Thomas Jefferson's letter to the Danbury baptists and 200 years of supreme court decisions.


Taxes ain't never had nothin to do with speech, bud.

And I'm sure when the tables are turned you argue just as vehemently for the wall of separation and don't just claim that Jefferson's letters aren't in the constitution and therefore the purpose is unclear.

-_-

Go fark a moving train.
 
2012-04-24 01:21:17 PM  

EWreckedSean: Really, how is your Koine Greek?


Pretty poor. But fortunately, we've been able to reference the King James Bible for that past 400 years, so I don't have to brush up.
 
2012-04-24 01:22:40 PM  
Mildot

Those cartoons are the dumbest pile of lying, misleading bullshiat I've seen from a right winger in awhile and that's saying a lot. The "artists" are either deliberate liars or so farking stupid it's a miracle they remember to breathe. They are entitled to their own opinions. They are not entitled to their own facts.

the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops called for two weeks of public protest in June and July against what it sees as growing government encroachment on religious freedom.

ie. A group of delusional old misogynists have become shills for the Republican party. Somehow I'm not surprised they'd feel at home there.

And by "delusional" I'm not even getting into their belief in God... it's their belief that there's a "growing government encroachment on religious freedom". They're morons sucking up the latest GOP propaganda like sponges.

/Today's GOP: #1 with delusional misogynists
 
2012-04-24 01:23:10 PM  

Nabb1: Lord_Baull: Nabb1: Lord_Baull: PRAYING IN YOUR ROOM IS STILL THE ABILITY TO WORSHIP THE GOD OF YOUR CHOICE, IDIOT!
In fact, Jesus said quite clearly that's how it should be done anyways.

No it isn't. I know a lot of people like to argue it is, but that wasn't the point of that admonition if you read the entirety of the passage, not just cherry picked that quote up, and I don't think for a second you actually have read that. You probably cribbed it from the countless times it has been parroted and tucked it away, but the whole point of that famous sermon had to do with how God knows true piety from false showings of piety done by people wanting to make a big show to others. He was not saying, "Thou shalt never pray in public." It's a pretty shallow interpretation of that passage. If you continue reading, Jesus goes on to lead the crowd in what is known by some as "The Lord's Prayer." ("Our father...") You're wrong, and it's a completely ignorant notion.


What?

Yes, when you say that you are wrong. The point of the whole sermon eluded you, most likely because you've never read it. Not that I think you care. But when you tell people of faith essentially to shut up based on that, you're wrong, and even anyone with a passing knowledge of the context of that knows you're of base. I know you've never read the chapter in it's entirety, and I know you don't care, because any other interpretation than the erroneous one of the solitary nugget you've committed to memory won't suit your purpose. The sermon was about how God knows whether you are truly pious or not.



So, you're in agreement that one does not need to physically go to a church to practice his faith. Excellent.
 
2012-04-24 01:23:24 PM  

EWreckedSean: RyogaM: EWreckedSean: chaoswolf: EWreckedSean: Actually it will. Catholicism especially involves the following of sacraments, which require church infrastructure outside of praying alone in your room.

Then the priest can get off of his fat, lazy, kiddie-diddling ass and go to your house to help you with your symbolic cannibalism.

What priest? You've eliminated the church infrastructure, which includes the priests.

Nonsense. Priests do not have to be supported by a church structure, and could easily perform their services as a priest on a part-time basis supporting themselves with real employment. Many Catholic church deacons do exactly that.

A deacon isn't a priest, and can't administer most, if any sacraments. (been a long time since I quit the Catholic church so I'm not sure exactly)


And it still would not matter. A priest is not forbidden to support themselves with a real job and can do all that is required on a part-time basis. The deacon at my church never received a salary from the church and supported himself and his family with a real job. A priest is not forbidden by any church teaching to do the same.
 
2012-04-24 01:23:27 PM  
gah, to clarify, the part I quoted above is not from Mildot, it's from TFA.
 
2012-04-24 01:23:38 PM  

Nabb1: Lord_Baull: "Beware of practicing your piety before men in order to be seen by them; for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven. Thus, when you give alms, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by men. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you give alms, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your alms may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you. And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by men. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you." (Matthew 6:1-6 RSV)


How is any of the bolded taken out of context?
How is explaining to the crowd what the words to the lord's prayer relevant?

Google searched it, didn't you?


Why does that matter?
 
2012-04-24 01:24:05 PM  

Lord_Baull: EWreckedSean: Really, how is your Koine Greek?

Pretty poor. But fortunately, we've been able to reference the King James Bible for that past 400 years, so I don't have to brush up.


I wasn't aware that the whole of Christendom had adopted the King James version as the definitive English language translation.
 
2012-04-24 01:24:23 PM  

gimmegimme: EWreckedSean: chaoswolf: EWreckedSean: chaoswolf: EWreckedSean: Actually it will. Catholicism especially involves the following of sacraments, which require church infrastructure outside of praying alone in your room.

Then the priest can get off of his fat, lazy, kiddie-diddling ass and go to your house to help you with your symbolic cannibalism.

What priest? You've eliminated the church infrastructure, which includes the priests.

Bullshiat. Taxing a church on its profits will not in ANY way eliminate the church's infrastructure. If a church can't survive off of its tithes then it's a worthless business model and the free market will deal with it accordingly. Forcing it to pay taxes as any other business doesn't change that fact.

What profits exactly? Which part of non-profit organization is confusing to you?

What helping the poor might look like:

[upload.wikimedia.org image 640x359]

No profit at all...


Too lazy and my links never seem to work.. but ever see the part of religiocity where Maher and the priest are outside the Vatican and the priest is pretty much.. yeah the grandeur of place is pretty much against everything Jesus taught us. The priest was on of those rare ones who knows the church is full of it.

What drives me nuts is that the Catholic church has so much potential to be a power for good especially in the face of the crazy bible thumpers. Evolution, sure ... bible well it's mostly allegory so don't be so literal we have a guy to help with that stuff. Socialism? Yup that is pretty much what the big guy wants so let's do it. Does the church do any of this? No it picks one stinking issues and tries to out crazy the crazy then elects Emperor Palpatine to head it.

I'm too inherently Catholic to be anything else. I tried the JV squad but then even they doubled down on the cray cray.
 
2012-04-24 01:24:29 PM  

Nabb1: Google searched it Copied it verbatim so I wouldn't be accused of distortion, didn't you?


FTFY
 
2012-04-24 01:25:18 PM  

Lord_Baull: So, you're in agreement that one does not need to physically go to a church to practice his faith. Excellent.


No, one does not have to go to church to pray. But doing so doesn't break any rules, either.
 
2012-04-24 01:25:47 PM  

chaoswolf: I alone am best: chaoswolf: EWreckedSean: What profits exactly? Which part of non-profit organization is confusing to you?

The part where "non-profit" is a lie.

Citation needed.

See: Worth of Vatican City
See: Average salary of megachurch pastors.

Then STFU for being a retard.


Megachurch's aren't a part of Catholicism.
The worth of Vatican City is meaningless. It is the center of a religion of over a billion people, not somebody's property. What's the value of Washington DC, which is the center of government for only 300 million people?
 
2012-04-24 01:26:00 PM  

Shostie: I'm Catholic. I will very likely vote for Obama unless it turns out that he's a Reptloid.


But if you vote for a non-lizard, the wrong lizard might win!
 
2012-04-24 01:26:14 PM  

Lord_Baull: Nabb1: Google searched it Copied it verbatim so I wouldn't be accused of distortion, didn't you?

FTFY


You can copy and past, but Thomas Aquinas you ain't.
 
2012-04-24 01:27:01 PM  

Nabb1: Lord_Baull: EWreckedSean: Really, how is your Koine Greek?

Pretty poor. But fortunately, we've been able to reference the King James Bible for that past 400 years, so I don't have to brush up.

I wasn't aware that the whole of Christendom had adopted the King James version as the definitive English language translation.



Maybe you should brush up on your religious history. Can you think of an earlier English version that all other translation are based on? Or is your argument that, because very few people today read Latin and Greek, we cannot quote the Bible?
 
2012-04-24 01:27:41 PM  

pciszek: Shostie: I'm Catholic. I will very likely vote for Obama unless it turns out that he's a Reptloid.

But if you vote for a non-lizard, the wrong lizard might win!


pciszek: Shostie: I'm Catholic. I will very likely vote for Obama unless it turns out that he's a Reptloid.

But if you vote for a non-lizard, the wrong lizard might win!


I'll take lizard leader over robot any day.
 
2012-04-24 01:27:47 PM  

ginandbacon: I think I get the point you are making, but I would be a little reluctant to compare supporters of a single-issue charity to the adherents of a very complicated system of faith that has immortal souls at it's foundation. It's a bit like comparing the way people talk about their sports teams vs. their families. Not quite the same thing.


Definitely not a perfect analogy. There are other charities that do the same work that Komen does, just on a smaller scale. There is no "smaller scale" Catholic Church. And even analogizing the pedophilia scandal isn't entirely fair; the pedophile stuff in no way compares to the issue of birth control. Further, I'd for sure lay the lion's share of the blame (for both of those issues) at the feet of the bishops.

BUT (and this is speaking as an areligious agnostic) I can't understand how someone can sit idly by while their leaders say things they actively disagree with, "tacky" though it may be.

/btw, no need to apologize for being flip earlier. I was the one who dropped the term "kidfarkers" in response to your civil post.
//yay for reasonable discussions on fark
 
2012-04-24 01:27:50 PM  

Lord_Baull: EWreckedSean: Really, how is your Koine Greek?

Pretty poor. But fortunately, we've been able to reference the King James Bible for that past 400 years, so I don't have to brush up.


Lol the King James bible? Really? Bad enough you are reading a translation of a translation, but the King James bible in particular was altered by the Church of England to fit their beliefs better. again I say, you've never read the bible.
 
2012-04-24 01:27:58 PM  
Catholics love Mormons. Maybe not yet, but they will, they will! Muahahahaha.
 
2012-04-24 01:28:38 PM  

qorkfiend: Why does that matter?


Because Nabb1 has to win.
 
2012-04-24 01:28:49 PM  

Nabb1: Lord_Baull: So, you're in agreement that one does not need to physically go to a church to practice his faith. Excellent.

No, one does not have to go to church to pray. But doing so doesn't break any rules, either.



Well good, because you butted your nose into a conversation where TrainWreckSean was stating you do.
 
2012-04-24 01:29:27 PM  

EWreckedSean: chaoswolf: I alone am best: chaoswolf: EWreckedSean: What profits exactly? Which part of non-profit organization is confusing to you?

The part where "non-profit" is a lie.

Citation needed.

See: Worth of Vatican City
See: Average salary of megachurch pastors.

Then STFU for being a retard.

Megachurch's aren't a part of Catholicism.
The worth of Vatican City is meaningless. It is the center of a religion of over a billion people, not somebody's property. What's the value of Washington DC, which is the center of government for only 300 million people?


18 A certain Farker asked Jesus, "Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?"

19 "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good-except God alone. 20 You know the commandments: 'You shall not commit adultery, you shall not murder, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, honor your father and mother.'[a]"

21 "All these I have kept since I was a boy," he said.

22 When Jesus heard this, he said to him, "You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

23 When he heard this, he became very sad, because he was very wealthy. 24 Jesus looked at him and said, "How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God! 25 Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God."
 
2012-04-24 01:29:35 PM  

EWreckedSean: Lord_Baull: EWreckedSean: Really, how is your Koine Greek?

Pretty poor. But fortunately, we've been able to reference the King James Bible for that past 400 years, so I don't have to brush up.

Lol the King James bible? Really? Bad enough you are reading a translation of a translation, but the King James bible in particular was altered by the Church of England to fit their beliefs better. again I say, you've never read the bible.


What's your recommended translation?
 
2012-04-24 01:30:42 PM  

EWreckedSean: Lord_Baull: EWreckedSean: Really, how is your Koine Greek?

Pretty poor. But fortunately, we've been able to reference the King James Bible for that past 400 years, so I don't have to brush up.

Lol the King James bible? Really? Bad enough you are reading a translation of a translation, but the King James bible in particular was altered by the Church of England to fit their beliefs better. again I say, you've never read the bible.



Ahh, so now we've moved into the "no true scotsman" level of debate. Tell me, what is the "correct" Bible I should be quoting from? NIV?
 
2012-04-24 01:31:28 PM  

Lord_Baull: Nabb1: Lord_Baull: EWreckedSean: Really, how is your Koine Greek?

Pretty poor. But fortunately, we've been able to reference the King James Bible for that past 400 years, so I don't have to brush up.

I wasn't aware that the whole of Christendom had adopted the King James version as the definitive English language translation.


Maybe you should brush up on your religious history. Can you think of an earlier English version that all other translation are based on? Or is your argument that, because very few people today read Latin and Greek, we cannot quote the Bible?


You don't know too much about Catholicism, do you? The New Jerusalem Bible is the version most widely used by Catholic churches, and it was translated straight from Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic texts in the late 20th century. Not every English translation has come from the King James. The King James version is a tremendous literary achievement, equaling in historical importance, but its by no means the definitive text.
 
2012-04-24 01:32:10 PM  

Bhasayate: This thread has many enlightening comments, balanced discussion of the issues, and I have learned so much from the many posts. Cheers all around. Another great farking learning experience.


Reading trollery is always a learning experience. Proxy fights by trolling predators helps cull the rational argumentary herd of slower members so that the stronger can flourish even beyond Fark's borders. Trolls are doing a service to mankind by making us all smarter by allowing us to experience reductio ad absurdum vicariously.

If you can recognize logical fallacies, Thank a Troll!
 
2012-04-24 01:32:22 PM  

turbidum: yay for reasonable discussions on fark


Very much so! I've really enjoyed this conversation, thank you :)
 
2012-04-24 01:33:26 PM  

Lord_Baull: EWreckedSean: Lord_Baull: EWreckedSean: Really, how is your Koine Greek?

Pretty poor. But fortunately, we've been able to reference the King James Bible for that past 400 years, so I don't have to brush up.

Lol the King James bible? Really? Bad enough you are reading a translation of a translation, but the King James bible in particular was altered by the Church of England to fit their beliefs better. again I say, you've never read the bible.


Ahh, so now we've moved into the "no true scotsman" level of debate. Tell me, what is the "correct" Bible I should be quoting from? NIV?


Conservapedia's Conservative Bible Project
 
2012-04-24 01:33:42 PM  

Lord_Baull: EWreckedSean: Lord_Baull: EWreckedSean: Really, how is your Koine Greek?

Pretty poor. But fortunately, we've been able to reference the King James Bible for that past 400 years, so I don't have to brush up.

Lol the King James bible? Really? Bad enough you are reading a translation of a translation, but the King James bible in particular was altered by the Church of England to fit their beliefs better. again I say, you've never read the bible.


Ahh, so now we've moved into the "no true scotsman" level of debate. Tell me, what is the "correct" Bible I should be quoting from? NIV?


You need to look up the meaning of the No True Scotsman fallacy. As for correct, in English, there isn't one. They are all translations, all translated with a bias toward the beliefs of whatever organization is doing the translation.
 
2012-04-24 01:33:49 PM  
Holy shiat you guys are all missing the best part. TFA COMMENTS ARE FULL OF DERP! Like, extinction event levels of derp.
 
2012-04-24 01:34:00 PM  

EWreckedSean: Lord_Baull: EWreckedSean: Really, how is your Koine Greek?

Pretty poor. But fortunately, we've been able to reference the King James Bible for that past 400 years, so I don't have to brush up.

Lol the King James bible? Really? Bad enough you are reading a translation of a translation, but the King James bible in particular was altered by the Church of England to fit their beliefs better. again I say, you've never read the bible.


Or he can read the New American Bible Revised which is approved by the Conference of Bishops for Catholics. Whichever.
 
2012-04-24 01:34:27 PM  

unyon: Aarontology: Go and protest women having access to health care. Do it.

And especially make sure you admonish the 98% of Catholic women that will use birth control in their lifetimes. That'll be sure to help.


probably bigger than that, they are against sex at all... see how well being anti sex polls anywhere...
 
2012-04-24 01:35:04 PM  

EWreckedSean: Megachurch's aren't a part of Catholicism.
The worth of Vatican City is meaningless. It is the center of a religion of over a billion people, not somebody's property. What's the value of Washington DC, which is the center of government for only 300 million people?


This is like watching a sock puppet trying to bury itself alive with marmalade.
 
2012-04-24 01:36:07 PM  

EWreckedSean: Lord_Baull: EWreckedSean: Lord_Baull: EWreckedSean: Really, how is your Koine Greek?

Pretty poor. But fortunately, we've been able to reference the King James Bible for that past 400 years, so I don't have to brush up.

Lol the King James bible? Really? Bad enough you are reading a translation of a translation, but the King James bible in particular was altered by the Church of England to fit their beliefs better. again I say, you've never read the bible.


Ahh, so now we've moved into the "no true scotsman" level of debate. Tell me, what is the "correct" Bible I should be quoting from? NIV?

You need to look up the meaning of the No True Scotsman fallacy. As for correct, in English, there isn't one. They are all translations, all translated with a bias toward the beliefs of whatever organization is doing the translation.


Which one is your preferred translation? More importantly, can you describe how the meaning is substantially changed between your preferred translation and the King James Bible?
 
2012-04-24 01:36:29 PM  

Fark It: Obama has what you would call a firewall with Catholics in the form of the Hispanic vote.


Are Hispanics more or less likely to listen to the bishops about this birth control stuff than non-hispanic catholics? I got the impression that "cafeteria catholics" were mostly non-hispanic.
 
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