Mountain Doo: But I've never met nicer, kinder and more generous people than that.

As long as you're white and christian.

I've been in WV for five years. If you're white, they're nice to you until they can figure out how you're not like them.

Spanky McStupid: david_gaithersburg: Bathia_Mapes: Did anyone notice that some commenters were trying to blame the conditions on President Obama? I guess some people have forgotten or aren't aware that such conditions were apparent when Senator Robert F Kennedy visited the area in the latter part of the 60s.

His daughter, Rory Kennedy, revisted the area again in 1999 and found that conditions hadn't changed much. She made a documentary and wrote a photo essay about an Appalachian family (the Bowlings) called "American Hollow".

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Since 1969 we have spent $1 trillion dollars on the War on Poverty, just as successful as the War on Drugs.

That was the first thing that came to mind. It has been almost 50 years since the War On Poverty was initiated and these conditions still exist. End the quagmire in Appalachia!

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You don't get it. No matter how much money you spend poverty will always exist. What this article displays are a few people with mental conditions. There are plenty of poor people that know the concept of not living in their own filth.

Go Steelers!

jst3p: looks like we need more tax cuts for the job creators.

Irony.

david_gaithersburg: Bathia_Mapes: Did anyone notice that some commenters were trying to blame the conditions on President Obama? I guess some people have forgotten or aren't aware that such conditions were apparent when Senator Robert F Kennedy visited the area in the latter part of the 60s.

His daughter, Rory Kennedy, revisted the area again in 1999 and found that conditions hadn't changed much. She made a documentary and wrote a photo essay about an Appalachian family (the Bowlings) called "American Hollow".

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Since 1969 we have spent $1 trillion dollars on the War on Poverty, just as successful as the War on Drugs.

havent we spent about that much in iraq since 2003? (not trollin...just askin)

Why, when I was a boy, we were so poor, we could not afford dish soap to wash our dishes. So, we just used them once, and bought new dishes.

glassbottomboatcaptain: raptusregaliter: I thought it was just me. Maybe its eastern Kentucky pronunciation?

Speaking of Kentucky pronunciation, the other day I was watching CNN and thought Brooke Baldwin was having a stroke when she pronounced 'Louisville'.

Another 10 or 15 years and the pronunciation of that city will have devolved to the sound that Zoidberg makes when he's excited.

i just picture them all going "hodor".

mrbach: These people vote against social support and universal healthcare because it goes against their principle of freedom. Good job GOP. You CAN sell ice to Eskimos.

Actually, because it's about PRIDE. Real, actual pride over something that's actually under their control. Not accepting handouts is a lot more substantial than pride in something you actually have no control in, like skin color.

And, as was pointed out up-thread, where are the drive-by shootings, drug abuse and rampant crime supposedly caused by poverty?

Wind Chimes: I live in the coalfields of southern WV. I am a native WV'ian, but not from the coalfields, so living here for the past three years has been eye-opening for me.

This level of poverty is pervasive throughout Appalachia. And Mountain Doo is correct, these are not stupid people. There are by and large honest, intelligent, kind, generous, hard-working people. They and their ancestors have been exploited for over 100 years; those generational wounds don't heal themselves overnight. All I hear from younger people here is how they have to get out, get away, that there is nothing for them here. That's heartbreaking on so many levels.

When I was growing up under similar conditions, it was just called "The trailer park", and yes, there were only two classes of people there: those who were working to get the hell out forever, and those who were resigned to die that way, because it was all they knew. All blue collar to be sure, but not much different from the low-rent poverty stricken types you can find anywhere from South Carolina through Mississippi... and I've seen people actually living in tarpaper shacks with dirt floors.

Poverty is everywhere if you know where to look. In the inner cities, it's called slums; at least most of these people have a view.

jtown: Many people live, literally, in the moment. Next week does not exist. Tomorrow is a vague, fuzzy concept. I'm sure there's some fancy name for this scenario.

Exhaustion. Exhaustion from working 60 - 80 hour weeks on multiple jobs while also being the home maker, with a body that can barely do 40. Mental exhaustion and emotional exhaustion from watching so many people die of strokes, heart attacks, cancers... no health care, lots o' suffering.

To be fair, I expected to see a LOT more signs of smoking, and there was nary a dangling cigarette or ash tray to be seen. The flip side of these hard working folks, are their invisible, meth-producing/using neighbors.

Despair takes a heavy toll after a while.

/Glad we got out when I was a kid.

JoanHaus: I, and my entire family, hail from Lee County. Beatyville, if you're counting.

Have no sympathy for these people, for they are all farking morons. Period. I am allowed to say it - they're MY people. Appalachians are simply the most backwards, moronic hillbillies on earth.

I grew up in a very guido (urban hick) part of Queens, NY. I could fill in most of the same blanks, if that makes you feel any better.

At least it ain't Pikeville.

Aside from the subject matter, was nobody else bothered by the amount of wide angle distortion in the photos? It gave me a headache. If you didn't take anything longer than a 12mm lens with you on your photo shoot, remember Photoshop has had a lens correction filter for awhile now...

HAMMERTOE: And, as was pointed out up-thread, where are the drive-by shootings, drug abuse and rampant crime supposedly caused by poverty?

Meth. LOTS of meth. And drinking. You get a lot of stabbings in those parts, and the occasional in-person shooting, but no drive-bys, few robberies (notice the utter lack of plasma and flat-screens, $150 sneakers, and Cadillacs...)

ManRay: Aside from the subject matter, was nobody else bothered by the amount of wide angle distortion in the photos? It gave me a headache. If you didn't take anything longer than a 12mm lens with you on your photo shoot, remember Photoshop has had a lens correction filter for awhile now...

Oh hell, I thought I was hallucinating when I saw that Victorian-looking chair, then after a few more shots I realized it was just the world's shiattiest lens, and they used it for every single shot. BAD cameraperson, BAD!! >:^(

Many of those Folk look happier than the majority of assholes I see in NYC everyday.

thespindrifter: but no drive-bys

Unless you count violence against stop signs

Mountain Doo: I spent some childhood in those parts, and after seeing all the teen mothers and filth FTFA, I felt I have to say something. Those people are not stupid. Redneck? Hell yeah. But I've never met nicer, kinder and more generous people than that. You haven't had fun until you have a few beers and go rappelling down a mountainside or explored a cave. The redneck yokels from parts of Florida scare me, these people do not.

My grandpa was from Breathitt County. Nope, they're not stupid, which is what makes the bad eggs even more scary.

And I'll agree with xanadian. It's like this photographer went out of the way to find a nasty place to shoot the first few pix.

baltimoreron: Go Steelers! Stillers

rynthetyn: cc_rider: Wind Chimes: I live in the coalfields of southern WV. I am a native WV'ian, but not from the coalfields, so living here for the past three years has been eye-opening for me.

This level of poverty is pervasive throughout Appalachia. And Mountain Doo is correct, these are not stupid people. There are by and large honest, intelligent, kind, generous, hard-working people. They and their ancestors have been exploited for over 100 years; those generational wounds don't heal themselves overnight. All I hear from younger people here is how they have to get out, get away, that there is nothing for them here. That's heartbreaking on so many levels.

This is true. The mining companies, the TVA etc. have been farking these people over since forever.I've also seen just as bad or worse poverty in rural Alabama and other places down here.

It's the people who don't understand that this completely different America continues to exist to this day, that are the ignorant ones.

When I was living in the developing world, I tried to convince other Americans that I'd seen the same kind of poverty we were seeing there in parts of the rural south and they simply refused to believe me. It was so far outside of their vision of what America was that they simply couldn't process the information. And this wasn't wealthy people who wouldn't believe it, this was people who grew up in blue collar, lower middle class American households who refused to believe that there were people in America who lived with no water and no electricity in houses that were just as ramshackle as the ones that the poor people they were pitying abroad were living in, but who had even fewer options for getting out of poverty than those foreign poor that they pitied so much.

There is no place I have yet seen that can compare to West Mississippi... it was so depressing, I stopped taking pictures. I had no idea that there were human being in AMERICA living like that. Sure, some of them got to that point all on their own with bad living, but others just never really had an opportunity to improve their situation, black and white alike. Seriously, TAR PAPER SHACKS people! With DIRT FLOORS. Trailers not even nearly as nice as the ones in the article! I drove through entire towns that are withering up and dying, most that were at one time attached to King Cotton or Peanuts or some other monocrop, and when that crop takes a hit for a few years from cheaper imports, pestilence, famine... you can only get so many loan extensions before it's game over and you move or die alone with time on your hands. Most of these people never knew anything other than farming, and you either grew what was selling or you risked not turning a profit. Nature and the market are fickle, and the agrarian life can be harsh.

If you have never driven through rural Mississippi, South Carolina, or West Georgia, it will haunt you. Entire stretches of abandoned homes, farms, and even entire towns that just... died. It's like parts of the Rust Belt, but more low-tek.

On the flip side, if you have ever wanted to own your own classic Coca-Cola machine, have I got a place for you... antiquing in some of these areas can be amazing.

HAMMERTOE: mrbach: These people vote against social support and universal healthcare because it goes against their principle of freedom. Good job GOP. You CAN sell ice to Eskimos.

Actually, because it's about PRIDE. Real, actual pride over something that's actually under their control. Not accepting handouts is a lot more substantial than pride in something you actually have no control in, like skin color.

And, as was pointed out up-thread, where are the drive-by shootings, drug abuse and rampant crime supposedly caused by poverty?

Uh... seriously? Youre going to argue theres no drug or alcohol abuse in communities like these?

And there are no drivebys because they don't have cars or paved roads, duh. but jokes aside...

I don't understand the "too proud for services" things.

Calling them "handouts" is a morally charged misnomer; its not free, its not a "handout". A handout is when your gramma gives you a dollar. Receiving subsidies in the form of unemployment, or subsidized health care, or whatever sort of services you receive in your own community which are financed by your own tax dollars are things you helped pay for.

That's like saying youre too proud to get your insurance company to pay for a car crash because it's a handout, it aint no handout, you've been paying your insurance premiums, its ok to use it when you need it. That's why you have it. Theres a reason unemployment insurance is called INSURANCE. Same principle.

matto22: Many of those Folk look happier than the majority of assholes I see in NYC everyday.

And they probably are, because they refuse to run the rat race. Think about it. You get up, make sure you have enough food and water, and a roof over your head, and something for heat hopefully.

No hour stuck in traffic, no sitting at a desk for 8+ hours in fluorescent lighting, no boss telling them what to do, no hour stuck in traffic to get home, no worry about bills. To them, that isn't living. The only trade off might be a shorter life due to the fact they can't pay medical bills (but really, who wants to live forever?). Everything else is a luxury.

To each his own I say.

Huntsville, WV on the my father's side. He escaped by joining the Marines, as many do.

LOL at people who "understand" the problems in Owsley County. It's nice people care, but the problems run lot deeper than most would believe.

xanadian: I'm sure it's been mentioned, but it would be Fark if I didn't beat the dead horse some more.

Just because you're poor doesn't mean you have to be slovenly. No running water? Run down to the well and get some. Now you got running water. Wash those f*cking dishes, goddamit!

Being poor can fark you up for life. I grew up poor (though in comparison to these folks, we were rich - we had running water, electricity, heat, healthcare, and food), and even today at 30, I have significant problems because of it. I'm a minimalist at heart, but because I'm so used to not having anything (and being tormented and judged mercilessly for it), you end up hoarding everything you can get your hands on because you never know if you can afford it down the line. Since you've never had anything, just having lots of things around makes you feel like it's not so bad and you've made progress in your life. Like it or not, you ARE judged by what you own. Cleaning out (my place is very clean - just lots of stuff in it) is a nightmare because those memories of having nothing come flooding back. I'd love to get rid of all this stuff I have no use for, but as soon as I'm cleaned out, I can just hear the voices of the people who made fun of me for being poor (both in school and in adulthood), and I want to rush out and get more so I can prove to them that I'm not poor and that I'm worthy of being treated like a human being.

thespindrifter: If you have never driven through rural Mississippi, South Carolina, or West Georgia, it will haunt you. Entire stretches of abandoned homes, farms, and even entire towns that just... died. It's like parts of the Rust Belt, but more low-tek

so...like a rural detroit?

actually, id be interested in doing that... can pull up a map and sort of provide a map? like from cityX to cityY along RouteXX?

The antiquing part sounds interesting... bet you could get some great deals on guns, too.

That is, until Cletus the State Trooper with the mirrored sunglasses double chin and ruddy scotch irish complexion doesn't take kindly to outsider yankee types and locks me up for something

You mean apart from the hoarding, teen pregnancy, Oxycontin industry and inbred violence...

Father_Jack: Receiving subsidies in the form of unemployment, or subsidized health care, or whatever sort of services you receive in your own community which are financed by your own tax dollars are things you helped pay for.

And when you've paid no taxes, because you earn nothing? H-A-N-D-O-U-T.

I had neighbors like that growing up.
I have neighbors like that now.
Good folks.
No need to lock doors in my neighborhood.
Folks leave the keys in the cars.
Help each other out.

More amenities than on a rezervation, that's for sure.

I believe an episode of Breaking Bad was filmed in that first trailer.

Father_Jack: Receiving subsidies in the form of unemployment, or subsidized health care, or whatever sort of services you receive in your own community which are financed by your own tax dollars are things you helped pay for.

Seeing as most of these people don't have a job (and if they do, they make just enough to live on), I doubt they pay much into income tax. They might be lucky enough to own land and have to pay property taxes. While they buy stuff, a lot of stuff they own are hand-me-downs, salvaged, trades, or from non-taxed stores like Goodwill, so they pay very little sales tax. Hell, true hillbillies will rarely buy anything from a store. Hunt for food, make their own booze, repair/reuse instead of replace, etc..

Father_Jack: Calling them "handouts" is a morally charged misnomer; its not free, its not a "handout". A handout is when your gramma gives you a dollar. Receiving subsidies in the form of unemployment, or subsidized health care, or whatever sort of services you receive in your own community which are financed by your own tax dollars are things you helped pay for.

That's like saying youre too proud to get your insurance company to pay for a car crash because it's a handout, it aint no handout, you've been paying your insurance premiums, its ok to use it when you need it. That's why you have it. Theres a reason unemployment insurance is called INSURANCE. Same principle.

It would be the same if the people paying the taxes were the ones collecting the services. It's more akin to you paying for car insurance, and me collecting from you company when I get in a crash. I didn't pay in, yet I am collecting the service. Half of America pays no income tax. Yet far more than half of America collects services paid by income tax. So the car insurance analogy doesn't fit.

12349876: TWX: I'd bet that this area has looked like this, roughly, since the civil war,

Except for the time when all the trees were flattened by logging companies and the mountaintops getting blown off now.

This weekend, I pulled up at a light next to a vehicle that had a bumper sticker on the rear side window that read: STRIP MINING PREVENTS FOREST FIRES.

I wanted to see what kind of tool would espouse such a thing, so I looked at the driver. He was performing some intense mining of his own--tickling his brain, probably.

Yay, strip mining. @@

A Terrible Human: DysphoricMania: Dude... hoping that post is not a troll, b/c I like you now. I think we have a similar upbringing.

It's not a troll at all. I grew up in Perry County but now live in Laurel.

Well shiat, you grew up and now live in the fancy parts of East KY

Oh, and to add on to my previous post, I'm slowly making progress with all the mental problems through therapy (though that isn't the only reason I see a therapist) and learning that if people are going to judge me by what I (don't) own, they're not worth my time. I'd rather be alone. But it's a hard road to navigate. Humans are social creatures (and I'm particularly outgoing and social), and it's tough being alone all the time because you don't have the latest toys.

/should move to Florida
//despite having its own tag, people are super-nice down there

david_gaithersburg: Huntsville, WV on the my father's side. He escaped by joining the Marines, as many do.

That trillion dollars was actually money well spent - it allowed tens of millions of people to improve their lives, so that there is now only a percentage of people living in abject poverty, instead of an entire multi-state region.

And the amount spent was just a fraction of what was wasted on Vietnam, not to mention Iraq and Afghanistan. But you just keep on whining and throwing feces.

There are people like that around here, but the overall condition of the area isn't as bleak as the pics make it (in Appalachia in general, I mean). People living at that level of poverty are the exception, not the rule.

I feel like I should chime in here...but meh.
pic of house of long-ago relative:


dad grew up on the other side of the mountain.
I grew up in the "big city>"

skantea: 20/20 did a special on this called Hidden America- Children of the mountains. It's pretty heartbreaking. There was a controversy becuse they documented incest happening in one of the families profiled and that hit too close to home as a cultural stereotype.

Here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syUwFmYeSVw

Had to watch that whole thing. How come none of the people join the military? 60k a year to start in the mines, and the owner says he can't fill jobs because everyone is on drugs. Sorry, I have to call moron on this. I don't care how poor you are, doing drugs is dumb. Hope the football player kid makes it someday. That is sad.

Selective pictures are selective. Are there people like that? Sure. Is everyone like that? No. Owsley Co. just happens to have a lot working against it.

kid_icarus: There are people like that around here, but the overall condition of the area isn't as bleak as the pics make it (in Appalachia in general, I mean). People living at that level of poverty are the exception, not the rule.

This.

Father_Jack: thespindrifter: If you have never driven through rural Mississippi, South Carolina, or West Georgia, it will haunt you. Entire stretches of abandoned homes, farms, and even entire towns that just... died. It's like parts of the Rust Belt, but more low-tek

so...like a rural detroit?

actually, id be interested in doing that... can pull up a map and sort of provide a map? like from cityX to cityY along RouteXX?

The antiquing part sounds interesting... bet you could get some great deals on guns, too.

That is, until Cletus the State Trooper with the mirrored sunglasses double chin and ruddy scotch irish complexion doesn't take kindly to outsider yankee types and locks me up for something

There is no such thing as a straight line "path" through MS; it just doesn't exist. Go from Meridian or Philadelphia up to Columbus, where Cotton is still King in the East: those are the back-roads with charm, and Columbus is where the Coke Machines are hiding, if you know where to look.

Anything west in MS is going to be awful; just drive around Northwestwest from Philadelphia to Cleveland, and read up on the events that led up to "Mississippi Burning" to get a feel for the natives south of there, between Philly and Meridian. Very friendly, even to Blacks, to some extent... just watch out for any Choctaws behind the wheel, as they feel that the lines the white man draws on their land are arbitrary. No lie!

Best eating is at any greasy spoon, but avoid places like "The Clock" or "Huddle House", where the waitresses smoke while cooking your food. Oh, and indoor smoking is still legal there, just a heads-up. Near Columbus there are a lot of Mennonites/Amish, and the Amish bakery will make you fat and happy about it.

South from Cleveland to Yazoo City is just... numbing. You have to see it to believe it. I hope the floods replenished the soil, because it was looking plenty sad and depleted when I was last there in 2005, like chalk almost, in a land where it's supposed to be reddish-tan or brown. Some of the flattest land I have ever seen, with miles and miles of abandoned homes, farms, and trailer parks that should have been condemned in the 1960s.

I never had problems with the police there, and in general the stereotypes that I am familiar with for such a person only applies to certain parts of Georgia and Louisiana, especially anywhere near Savannah.

There are only two places in MS I haven't seen that I want to: Tupelo, and anything that has to do with the Delta Blues greats like Robert Johnson. Some day, some day...

Huggermugger: david_gaithersburg: Huntsville, WV on the my father's side. He escaped by joining the Marines, as many do.

That trillion dollars was actually money well spent - it allowed tens of millions of people to improve their lives, so that there is now only a percentage of people living in abject poverty, instead of an entire multi-state region.

And the amount spent was just a fraction of what was wasted on Vietnam, not to mention Iraq and Afghanistan. But you just keep on whining and throwing feces.

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Actually poverty has increased since the War on Poverty began. But if making up shiat makes you feel better, then more power to ya.

Thunderpipes: skantea: 20/20 did a special on this called Hidden America- Children of the mountains. It's pretty heartbreaking. There was a controversy becuse they documented incest happening in one of the families profiled and that hit too close to home as a cultural stereotype.

Here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syUwFmYeSVw

Had to watch that whole thing. How come none of the people join the military? 60k a year to start in the mines, and the owner says he can't fill jobs because everyone is on drugs. Sorry, I have to call moron on this. I don't care how poor you are, doing drugs is dumb. Hope the football player kid makes it someday. That is sad.

That documentary showed the worst of the worst, like most documentaries. But it's true, people want to make the coal companies out to be the villains, when coal severance money pays for things like new roads, technical centers, high schools, hospitals, adult education centers, etc. and provide about the highest paying starting jobs you can ask for out with just a high school diploma.

The drug addiction problem causes most of the problems in the area anymore. It creates a vicious cycle that kids get sucked into, even if they don't get hooked on drugs too. They feel a responsibility to their family to try and take care of everybody. I've known more people to be killed over drugs/overdose than most.

And these people are allowed to vote. No wonder the country is going down the shiatter and being handed to the rich. Give me "illegal" immigrants any day.

david_gaithersburg: Huggermugger: david_gaithersburg: Huntsville, WV on the my father's side. He escaped by joining the Marines, as many do.

That trillion dollars was actually money well spent - it allowed tens of millions of people to improve their lives, so that there is now only a percentage of people living in abject poverty, instead of an entire multi-state region.

And the amount spent was just a fraction of what was wasted on Vietnam, not to mention Iraq and Afghanistan. But you just keep on whining and throwing feces.

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Actually poverty has increased since the War on Poverty began. But if making up shiat makes you feel better, then more power to ya.

both of you need to quote your citations or go to your rooms as youre just flinging partisan poo at this point.