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(OneNewsNow.com)   Removing a Bible from a hotel room = Christians won't be able to read a Bible at night = Christians losing religious freedom. Got it   (onenewsnow.com ) divider line 439
    More: Weird, religious freedom, accreditation, air forces  
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12190 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Apr 2012 at 4:28 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-24 09:42:48 AM  

Tatsuma: They are copying American hotel rooms to give soldiers the 'comforts from home'. They did not endorse any religion anymore than they endorsed all those paintings of dogs playing pokers or stained sheets.


Properly emulating an American hotel means allowing the proprietor to place a Bible (or other material) in the room if they wish. Not every hotel room has a Bible--they're significantly less common than they used to be, particularly among nicer hotels. Requiring a specific religious work to be placed in the room, even in the pursuit of what you seem to think is accuracy, is inappropriate for an American government institution.

The checklist isn't getting an item that says "__ No Bibles Present", it's simply removing the line that says "__ Bible Present".
 
2012-04-24 09:43:10 AM  

vudukungfu: I bet if there is a God and she has a bucket list, reading this thread isn't on it.


If "Ghod's" a woman, I wonder if she's hot?
 
2012-04-24 09:43:33 AM  

Tatsuma: truthseeker2083: And yet that still wasn't his point. He finds the christian bible as offensive as Jews find Mein Kampf offensive. Would you be so dismissing if the majority used it as their holy text and that was being put in the rooms?

And that's not what I was addressing, I was addressing his racist comment about Jews just rolling over and being used to it.


Ok. You addressed his racist comment. Would you be so dismissive if the majority's 'holy book' was mein kampf? There have been as many, if not more people persecuted because of the bible as were because of mein kampf. Why are they different?
 
2012-04-24 09:45:16 AM  

theknuckler_33: One of the items on VHs list was a bowl of M&Ms with all the brown one's removed. This item was included not because the band was eccentric, but rather it was used as a method of checking that arena managers were actually reading the list/contract and implementing the requirements, many of which were there to ensure the safety of the band.


I'm going to assume the requirement of a Bible in the military housing is the brown M&M of this checklist. There only as a checksum.
 
2012-04-24 09:45:20 AM  

God-is-a-Taco: Tatsuma: The people complaining about this are such a bunch of cry babies.

Does that include the "cockpit atheist"?
This isn't quite "bible verses on sniper scopes" or whatever that thing was, but any military endorsement of a religion is pretty crappy.

The soldiers don't need bibles, they need psychologists and other trained mental health experts to treat the trauma their brain is going through after being carelessly shoveled through multiple tours and then discarded.


Exactly. Bibles are not a medically accepted form of treatment. Bibles are also not a valid alternative to proper protective gear.
 
2012-04-24 09:47:18 AM  

Prevailing Wind: /too obscure?


Had to google it. I remember the sketch now. Well played.
 
2012-04-24 09:48:43 AM  
And ps.... plenty of my people (gays) died because of Mein Kampf and its author, just as they havr because of the bible and its followers.
 
2012-04-24 09:49:00 AM  
I think all sides in the religious wars need to shut the fark up and let each other live.

As an athiest being in a room without a bible will not kill me, just the same as a christian being in a room without a bible won't kill them.

Go live your life and quit trying to convert everyone to your side, religious or not.
 
2012-04-24 09:50:12 AM  

Mr.Tangent: I think all sides in the religious wars need to shut the fark up and let each other live.

As an athiest being in a room with a bible will not kill me, just the same as a christian being in a room without a bible won't kill them.

Go live your life and quit trying to convert everyone to your side, religious or not.


durp durp, fixed.
 
2012-04-24 09:51:36 AM  

HAMMERTOE: vudukungfu: I bet if there is a God and she has a bucket list, reading this thread isn't on it.

If "Ghod's" a woman, I wonder if she's hot?


And if she's omnipresent, then I'm getting laid as we speak!
 
2012-04-24 09:52:07 AM  

gaspode: I sound fat: dont have a dog in this fight, but Ive never understood militant atheists.

Fine, you dont believe, but why the activism against those that do? Got nothing better to do with your free time? Do they do it just for fun?

If you resent them for being preachy, think. Why is it wrong for them to attack YOUR beliefs, buts it okay for you to go on the offensive and try to deny them theirs?

Can you be THAT naive? They constantly attempt to have (and in countries like the USA succeed in having) their beliefs enshrined in law and policy that affects everyone, whether that person believes as they do or not. You have not observed this to be the case? Really? Even in this little tiny case Christians are demanding that the nation's military provide christian bibles to every service-person (presumably in the hope that they will eventually read it and be sucked in). Why on earth would it be doing that? It is not the army of god it is the army of the USA.


Remember the contraceptive debate? The argument was that Christian and Catholic -affiliated universities, hospitals, and businesses should be exempt from having to provide plans with adequate insurance coverage.

This is despite the challenge that other religious organizations do not get the same kind of preferences. There aren't common insurance rider for blood transfusions.
 
2012-04-24 09:53:59 AM  

SoxSweepAgain: When I check into a hotel room, if there's a god handbook in a drawer by the bed, it goes into the hallway or over the balcony.



I use it as toilet paper and put the toilet paper in the bureau drawer.
 
2012-04-24 09:54:12 AM  
www.onenewsnow.com

Bible Nazi
 
2012-04-24 09:55:32 AM  

theknuckler_33: many of which were there to ensure the safety of the band.


And the customers. I think it came about because their rather large entourage of equipment laden big rigs rolled up outside a sports arena style venue and the stage smashed through the brand new floor. If it'd of happened with a crowd of people in front of it... might of been nasty.

One of them did admit, later on, that the trashing of venues that didn't comply was just an added bonus for fun... but I suppose to someone running the venue VH causing $20k's worth of damage and cancelling is better, PR wise, than VH sueing you for breach of contract, charges of reckless endangerment flying around AND them cancelling.
 
2012-04-24 09:58:53 AM  

BurnShrike: HAMMERTOE: vudukungfu: I bet if there is a God and she has a bucket list, reading this thread isn't on it.

If "Ghod's" a woman, I wonder if she's hot?

And if she's omnipresent, then I'm getting laid as we speak!


Hence her continual disappointment with humanity?
 
2012-04-24 10:07:06 AM  

palelizard: BurnShrike: HAMMERTOE: vudukungfu: I bet if there is a God and she has a bucket list, reading this thread isn't on it.

If "Ghod's" a woman, I wonder if she's hot?

And if she's omnipresent, then I'm getting laid as we speak!

Hence her continual disappointment with humanity?


I would fark the Christian god. I just wouldn't call her the next day.

But there is no way I would fark the Jewish god. As a general rule I don't put my dick in crazy...
 
2012-04-24 10:07:29 AM  

ko_kyi: Shadowknight: In short, BRING YOUR OWN DAMN BIBLE IF YOU CARE SO FARKING MUCH. Stop looking to the rest of us to reenforce your persecution complex you Christians have had since the Romans. You're the majority now, just relax already.

atheist/agnostic/indifferent here. Why shouldn't a private business be able to offer religious books provided by a nonprofit society if they choose. Are you forced to read it? Antique morality tales like Aesop's fables wrapped in belief in an omnipotent invisible best friend.


I don't think a private business ought to be distributing religious paraphenalia. Even if it was just lying out on tables in an office space, it sets a tone, especially for others with contrary beliefs. It can unintentionally create tension and discomort especially if the two religions have a troubled history.
 
2012-04-24 10:11:27 AM  
Tats this is obviously something that has your interest otherwise you wouldn't bother to comment.
as for Judaism being both a race and religion I would say that it is and it's by design. Your people (as a lot of others btw I'm not singling you out) tend to frown upon marrying outside the faith and race. It's a form of self segregation. so you can't complain when someone just states the obvious.
as for putting books in the rooms would you day the same if it were Korans? Of course you wouldn't and don't even try to say you would.
majority matters not.
if you want to read the Bible then bring your own.
Don't expect things that others don't get. That's called entitlement.
 
2012-04-24 10:12:36 AM  
i141.photobucket.com
 
2012-04-24 10:17:41 AM  

truthseeker2083: Tatsuma: Shadowknight: I never did get why a Bible was there in the first place,

because religion is important to religious people?

If it's that important, they'd have their own. If they left it at home, that's their problem.


And hell - let's make it availabe on request or in the nook of the religious quarter.
 
2012-04-24 10:27:41 AM  

untaken_name: This, to me, is the most frustrating thing about dealing with religionists. "Christians" are the worst about it, but it's pretty universal. It's almost like people are lazy and just want to be told what to think rather than investigate things for themselves.


"Low-effort thinkers." It was in some story on the politics tab the other day, I think referring to conservatives. I've never seen a more apt description of some people.
 
2012-04-24 10:28:20 AM  
Yeah, I sympathize with them. It really pissed me off when hotels removed all the Joyce, Dostoyevsky, and Kierkegaard. Now I have to take my reading material with me. They call this freedom?!?!
 
2012-04-24 10:29:51 AM  
Jesus Tittyfarking Christ
 
2012-04-24 10:29:56 AM  

Leeds: But there is no way I would fark the Jewish god. As a general rule I don't put my dick in crazy...


Imagine making it with a Hindu god.

All those hands...
 
2012-04-24 10:35:17 AM  

Tatsuma: truthseeker2083: If it's that important, they'd have their own. If they left it at home, that's their problem.

You do realize that people who would read their Bibles while in their rooms don't bring them specifically because they know there is going to be one in their hotel rooms?

Do you think that Air Force members just travel around with lots and lots of luggage?


So, a lot of Christians rely the Bible like an old friend, with dog eared pages and highlighted passages. Those people will be packing their own.

There's no reason why a stack of complimentary Bibles cannot be set aside at the front desk or somewhere unobtrusive in the lobby.

The fact is, if this were any other religious book that was being placed in every room there would be an uproar. People were yelling back the greeting Happy Holidays. Let's not pretend a fair and reasoned treatment if this were any other religious book.
 
2012-04-24 10:40:45 AM  

Tatsuma: They are copying American hotel rooms to give soldiers the 'comforts from home'. They did not endorse any religion anymore than they endorsed all those paintings of dogs playing pokers or stained sheets.


Except endorsing paintings and stained sheets don't go against the first amendment. And I'd bet that neither of those things is actually on the checklist (though I wouldn't be surprised if "boring art" was), and that people would not be getting all butthurt over it if they were and then got removed.

The checklist is making a specific request for a specific holy book. That is the government endorsing a religion. As I said, the change isn't even getting rid of the bibles. It's simply removing a line item from a checklist. I think you would have to feel your religion was pretty special to get upset when it's removed from a checklist... a privilege that no other religion had to start with.
 
2012-04-24 10:45:56 AM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: In other news, on-base lodging farking REQUIRED a Bible to be placed in the rooms until now. They're not removing them, just not replacing them.

WTF business does a government agency have requiring any religious text be included in the specs for a room? That makes absolutely no sense to me.


Oh, now there you go with all that thinky thing going on with your thinking thingy.
 
2012-04-24 10:52:04 AM  

HAMMERTOE: Leeds: But there is no way I would fark the Jewish god. As a general rule I don't put my dick in crazy...

Imagine making it with a Hindu god.

All those hands...


I wouldn't sleep with Vishnu, but I would throw her a couple bucks for a good massage!
 
2012-04-24 10:56:30 AM  

SoxSweepAgain: When I check into a hotel room, if there's a god handbook in a drawer by the bed, it goes into the hallway or over the balcony.

/Don't like that shiat in my room.


Why? Does it magically make you start believing that virgins have babies? Does the spirit of god leak out of the book and invade your heart, making you wake up and sing hymns, praising the almighty and his only beloved son who died for your sins?

If the Quran, would you go out and subjugate women? (Oh, wait, that's probably why you're in a hotel room in the first place. Lets skip past that one.)

I think it's stupid for the military to require that bibles be in hotel rooms, but I can't imagine why an atheist would care if one is there or not.
 
2012-04-24 10:57:34 AM  
What's the problem, again?
 
2012-04-24 10:57:40 AM  

untaken_name: Yoyo: violentsalvation: On-base lodging is considered a hotel now?

Unfortunately, yes. The military has contracted out temporary lodging to civilians companies. I weep for the things that the military used to do for itself and now seems incapable of. Lodging is a drop in that bucket.

Next thing you know they'll pay companies to come in and paint everything olive drab instead of making the recruits do it.


Not military wide. The AIr Force still has Air Force Lodges, run by the Force Support Squadrons. The Army has contracted their lodging out to International Hotels Group, or as they're normally known, Holiday Inn. It's still exceptionally cheap in USAF lodges - like, $30-40/night for a pretty nice room. Toss in that AF rooms are usualy in fairly new buildings, and it's a great deal.

This sounds like they're trying to pull the same trick they did with privatized housing. It's hard to get congress to pay for projects to tear down functional, but old military family housing and replace it with new units. Under the old system, if a family lived in base housing, they received that as a benefit in-lieu of a housing allowance (usually *at least* $1000/month to cover rent). The houses were owned outright by the military, and they paid for upkeep.

The new system has military bases award a 50 year contract to a private developer, and anyone living in housing gets the housing allowance, but pays it directly to the developer. The big construction project doesn't show up in the budgets... instead, it just shows up as additional personnel entitlement funds.
 
2012-04-24 10:58:41 AM  
It's the Muslims that have it bad. Imagine having to train 72 virgins. 72 fumbling amateurs, absolutely no idea what they're doing. Oh, and 1 pedophile.
 
2012-04-24 11:00:07 AM  

MyNameIsMofuga: On one hand who cares if there is a bible in a drawer that no one reads, on the other hand why should Christians should be the only ones that get such easy access to their holy book. Mostly who gives a fark?


Does that not seem like a waste of trees for something no one reads?
 
2012-04-24 11:02:53 AM  

BraveNewCheneyWorld: Wow, having a book that doesn't cost the taxpayer anything inside a drawer bothers you this much? You people are just hypersensitive now. This isn't a violation of the first amendment as it does not involve congress or a law, and nobody has demonstrated that the military refuses texts of other religions.

The books are provided for free, and represent the religion of the majority of people in the military. Probably the only reason another religion isn't doing the same thing is because there's probably not a large enough organization for distribution of free religious texts for alternate religions. You biatchy little atheists are already have your religion represented with the rest of the drawers, they're all empty.


Your troll ego has an amusing group on reality.

/you must be trolling
 
2012-04-24 11:03:13 AM  

JuggleGeek: SoxSweepAgain: When I check into a hotel room, if there's a god handbook in a drawer by the bed, it goes into the hallway or over the balcony.

/Don't like that shiat in my room.

Why? Does it magically make you start believing that virgins have babies? Does the spirit of god leak out of the book and invade your heart, making you wake up and sing hymns, praising the almighty and his only beloved son who died for your sins?

If the Quran, would you go out and subjugate women? (Oh, wait, that's probably why you're in a hotel room in the first place. Lets skip past that one.)

I think it's stupid for the military to require that bibles be in hotel rooms, but I can't imagine why an atheist would care if one is there or not.


Speaking only for myself, I just find it annoying. It's like having a book of glossy, well-done advertisements for obvious confidence men and scam artists placed in the room - I'm not going to read it, but it would bother me that they would place it there.
 
2012-04-24 11:13:13 AM  
The comments at TFA remind me why I do not use Facebook. The amount of stupid on that page is overwhelming.
 
2012-04-24 11:18:01 AM  

untaken_name: Taxes are certainly factored into pricing structures. Are you really claiming that they are not? In public?


How are income taxes, which are based on net profit, factored into the price of a product or service?

Let's say I make widgets at a cost of $50 each, and sell them at $100. My income tax increases from 10% ($5 per unit) to 20% ($10 per unit). What adjustment should I make to my price and why?
=Smidge=
 
2012-04-24 11:23:10 AM  
The retired retarded chaplain quoted in that article says that if Christianity's special privilege is lifted, then no one will be able to read a bible at night.

It's almost like he doesn't realize that paper books are passe.

To anyone horrified that they will one day sleep in a hotel room that hasn't been stocked with a bible-

I present you with your very own digital copy: Free Bible as a Zipped Document

You are welcome.
 
2012-04-24 11:26:24 AM  

Raharu: "You've confused the 'war on your religion religious freedom' with 'not always getting everything you want'"

- John Stewart


Ffs. This!
 
2012-04-24 11:28:28 AM  

Vaneshi: I sound fat:
If you resent them for being preachy, think. Why is it wrong for them to attack YOUR beliefs, buts it okay for you to go on the offensive and try to deny them theirs?

Despite your apparent buthurt over the article and you displaying a trait I find amusing, you believe everything you read, this is not an atheist conspiracy to deprive you or anyone of your friends your freedoms to bother which ever deity you believe in.

However, these bibles cost money. To someone at some point. By not putting a bible in a military base lodging the military, which most farkers complain about it hoovering up great gobs of cash, saves some money, somewhere and at some point. As an added bonus, those joining the military who do not subscribe to your theistic beliefs but may in fact subscribe to a totally different set of beliefs (Bhuddism, Muslim, Jewish, etc) and believe in their religion as passionately as you do about yours don't irked about your religious book of choice being foisted on them.

"Two birds with one stone" seems a very apt phrase.

And yes, I am pretty damn sure this is not an atheist conspiracy, I was at the meeting of "conspiratorial atheists" last night and the subject wasn't even talked about let alone tabled for addition as part of our formal agenda.


I didn't see you there at all.

I brought brownies. Did you get to sample?
 
2012-04-24 11:32:39 AM  
I always draw pictures in them
 
2012-04-24 11:34:08 AM  
Read the article, it WOULD be the air force weenies that complain about that type of stupid shiat
 
2012-04-24 11:40:34 AM  

Tatsuma: That means that if a religious person ends up in these rooms, there is a 94% chance they are xian. Since we are talking about the military, I'd even wager that the proportion of xian might be higher.

They are simply giving a service to the majority. They are not forcing religion on anyone, and this is not an issue of the separation of church and state. This is merely about convenience and giving service to the people who are using those rooms.


Do you honestly and seriously believe that the majority of Christians are such frequent and regular readers of the Bible that it's any kind of convenience at all for them to have a Bible always at their fingertips? Because, I would bet you serious money right now that the vast majority of self-identified Christians have never even read the entire Bible once, let alone on anything approaching a regular basis... I'd bet very close to zero of those Gideon Bibles ever get read by anyone... They're probably more of a "convenience" to pot-smokers who lack rolling papers than to actual Christians who want to read it!

Not that I think they do any real harm just sitting there, either... And, not that I think going by how many people find them useful is a good argument; but the whole majority vs. minority thing was your argument, so I'm just saying I don't think you've really got the majority if you're talking about people who actually read the damn things...
 
2012-04-24 11:42:24 AM  

SoCalSurfer: Read the article, it WOULD be the air force weenies that complain about that type of stupid shiat


LOL. Read much?

FTFA:
"Dr. Gordon Klingenschmitt, a former Navy chaplain"
 
2012-04-24 11:42:44 AM  
I wonder if we could get a Kickstarter going to place a copy of "The Evolution of Species" into every hotel room in America?
 
2012-04-24 11:43:16 AM  

Tatsuma: miscreant: It's still an endorsement of one specific religion over others, which is the bigger issue.

I disagree.

They are copying American hotel rooms to give soldiers the 'comforts from home'. They did not endorse any religion anymore than they endorsed all those paintings of dogs playing pokers or stained sheets.


It's akin to attending a KKK rally but insist that because you didn't speak, there's no endorsement.

It's participation in the distribution of a very specific type of item that offends many.

I've yet to see you put forth any sensical response to the question, "What if it weren't the Bible?" I'm still early in the thread so you may have since addressed it.
 
2012-04-24 11:47:26 AM  

truthseeker2083: uttertosh: Tatsuma: uttertosh: He's jewish. They're used to it by now.

If it was mein kampf EVERYWERE,

Thanks for the racist comment, and the absolutely retarded comparison. I will now reconsider my position and give a lot of weight to your posts in the future.
.

As a mixed race human being, who was brought up without religion (and was phiscally and mentally abused by christians because of these facts), I find christian propoganda as offensive as nazi propoganda. Does that help you with my comparison? Or is that just personal anecdote to you, as I was not in the majority?

The 'in the majority argument' you are defending christians with in this thread can be directly applied to the majority in another oppressive, intolerant, brainwashed mindset. In Germany. Not that long ago.

Thanks for defining Judeism as a race, BTW. I will now reconsider my position and give a lot of weight to your posts in the future.

/Atheism is not a religion, it's a race!!
//sorry Tats, but I think you're dead wrong in this thread

I grew up partly in the south. Montgomery, AL was my father's last assignment. I was there when I first came out as gay. I was at a christian school, but they were so filled with christ's love they kicked me out. Then I got to go to public school as the only openly gay student. The christians there used their 'holy' book to call me vile names, tell me all about AIDS and hell and how I deserved both... There were a couple of physical altercations (read: beat-downs). All in the name of their vile interpretation of that vile book. I too find it and them disgusting. The military has no right to ensure anyone has access. If someone wants it, there are multiple ways for them to obtain it. We should NOT be making sure they are provided just because they are a majority.


As a human being - I am terribly sorry for how you were treated.
 
2012-04-24 11:51:43 AM  
Any time I stay in a hotel room, I write in the inside cover of the Bible:
I didn't write this, but you may find it amusing -- God.


/It pleaseth me greatly.
 
2012-04-24 11:52:00 AM  

Raharu: What if someone donated 10,000 copies of the koran, or dianetics or the book of mormon or the god delusion.


I'd be fine with that. It would be awesome to find a little mini-library in my room. Whenever I finish a paperback in a motel I throw it in the drawer with the bible, phone book, and pizza ads. I started doing it years ago after I found and read a Carlos Castenada book in a motel. It was something I would never have read if it wasn't there.
 
2012-04-24 11:53:38 AM  

I sound fat: dont have a dog in this fight, but Ive never understood militant atheists.

Fine, you dont believe, but why the activism against those that do? Got nothing better to do with your free time? Do they do it just for fun?

If you resent them for being preachy, think. Why is it wrong for them to attack YOUR beliefs, buts it okay for you to go on the offensive and try to deny them theirs?


Civil liberties must be jealously guarded, or they erode. Yes, in and of itself bibles in an Air Force lodging facility are not a big deal. However, it's the proverbial 'camel's nose under the tent.' If you permit a small violation of the establishment clause of the constitution, then the theocrats will be encouraged to move on to a larger violation.
 
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