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(Washington Post)   Five things heard in France's election that you'd never hear in the U.S   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 116
    More: Interesting, United States, major party, French citizens, bank regulation  
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5872 clicks; posted to Politics » on 23 Apr 2012 at 1:37 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-23 02:25:58 PM

Serious Black: 5) Even the far right is against free enterprise.

The far right political party in France is further to the left than our furthest left political caucus in Congress. That should tell you how messed up America is.


Or how messed up France is.

/point of view, man
 
2012-04-23 02:29:10 PM

TheYeti: Geotpf: Mike Chewbacca: doczoidberg: 100 percent tax rate???
That seems a bit...steep.

Agreed. But I can support this: "Hollande has proposed subjecting all income above $1.34 million to a 75 percent tax."

I disagree.

I actually believe in a Laffer Curve of some sort. 75% is too high a tax rate, IMHO, both for "Laffer" reasons and for public policy reasons (the rich don't need to be completely beaten to death by taxes). A top rate of 45% or so on all sources of income would be my preference (as opposed to the current US rate of 35% for income and 15% for investments).

But, then how would you derive any satisfaction from sticking it to The Man?


I'd settle for a top rate of 30% or 35%, if - big IF - ceilings were removed. I'd be especially interested in seeing the ceiling for Social Security/FICA removed.
 
2012-04-23 02:29:29 PM

qorkfiend: SoCalSurfer: Mike Chewbacca: doczoidberg: 100 percent tax rate???
That seems a bit...steep.

Agreed. But I can support this: "Hollande has proposed subjecting all income above $1.34 million to a 75 percent tax."

what's the point of making any money then? As soon as you hit that tax bracket you're poor again

Is it time for another lesson about how tax brackets work?


7) "My fellow Americans, this is how tax brackets work...."
 
2012-04-23 02:31:34 PM
#6:
i1.kwejk.pl
 
2012-04-23 02:33:12 PM

karnal: jigger


5) Even the far right is against free enterprise.

No, that's pretty typical in the US too. They took'er jerbs!

No:

Republicans believe free enterprise has brought economic growth and innovations that have made this country great. Government should help stimulate a business environment where people are free to use their talents.

Democrats believe that the economy is too complicated for individuals to navigate alone. They believe that business decisions should be guided by government officials and in the best interest of labor unions.




That's a good one. You had me there for a minute.
 
2012-04-23 02:35:16 PM

Lunaville: TheYeti: Geotpf: Mike Chewbacca: doczoidberg: 100 percent tax rate???
That seems a bit...steep.

Agreed. But I can support this: "Hollande has proposed subjecting all income above $1.34 million to a 75 percent tax."

I disagree.

I actually believe in a Laffer Curve of some sort. 75% is too high a tax rate, IMHO, both for "Laffer" reasons and for public policy reasons (the rich don't need to be completely beaten to death by taxes). A top rate of 45% or so on all sources of income would be my preference (as opposed to the current US rate of 35% for income and 15% for investments).

But, then how would you derive any satisfaction from sticking it to The Man?

I'd settle for a top rate of 30% or 35%, if - big IF - ceilings were removed. I'd be especially interested in seeing the ceiling for Social Security/FICA removed.


Oh? And come December will you be round their offices shoveling the snow from their cubicles? I don't think so.
 
2012-04-23 02:35:34 PM

Geotpf: Mike Chewbacca: doczoidberg: 100 percent tax rate???
That seems a bit...steep.

Agreed. But I can support this: "Hollande has proposed subjecting all income above $1.34 million to a 75 percent tax."

I disagree.

I actually believe in a Laffer Curve of some sort. 75% is too high a tax rate, IMHO, both for "Laffer" reasons and for public policy reasons (the rich don't need to be completely beaten to death by taxes). A top rate of 45% or so on all sources of income would be my preference (as opposed to the current US rate of 35% for income and 15% for investments).


To be fair, it's not 35%. It's 35% + a couple percent Social Security and Medicaire (It's normally 15%, but if you're at 35%, you passed the cap a LONG time ago) plus 10-15% state taxes plus any city taxes plus property taxes. In NYC, I wouldn't be surprised if there were people paying 70%. In Bumfark, IA, less so, but most rich people don't live in Bumfark, IA (unless they're hilariously, laughably rich and living out on their ranch ala GW Bush).

And regardless of how we may feel about the 15%, we're making more revenue off 15% than we did off 30%. It's not particularly fair, but when it's paying for Grandma's hoverround, she doesn't care whether the dollars were "fair" or not.

/At any income level, agreed that it's bullshiat to have to make $4 to spend $1.
//$2 to $1 is kinda pushing it.
 
2012-04-23 02:35:46 PM

Serious Black: 5) Even the far right is against free enterprise.

The far right political party in France is further to the left than our furthest left political caucus in Congress. That should tell you how messed up America is.


Why couldn't it tell you how messed up France is? The favorite in their presidential election favors a 75% tax bracket. That fact by itself is evidence that France, and the French, are farked up.
 
2012-04-23 02:36:16 PM

karnal: jigger


5) Even the far right is against free enterprise.

No, that's pretty typical in the US too. They took'er jerbs!

No:

Republicans believe free enterprise has brought economic growth and innovations that have made this country great. Government should help stimulate a business environment where people are free to use their talents.

Democrats believe that the economy is too complicated for individuals to navigate alone. They believe that business decisions should be guided by government officials and in the best interest of labor unions.


LMAO. Protip: When attempting to sound reasonable and objective, be reasonable and objective.

Don't be a partisan hack. No one likes a partisan hack.
 
2012-04-23 02:38:02 PM

Serious Black: 5) Even the far right is against free enterprise.

The far right political party in France is further to the left than our furthest left political caucus in Congress. That should tell you how messed up America is.


Or how messed up France is...
 
2012-04-23 02:39:05 PM

SoCalSurfer: Things that are the same:

"Too many muslims"


They are actually way more anti-muslim then we are. Just remember, Muslim's are their Mexicans.
 
2012-04-23 02:39:55 PM
Wow, maybe they have grounds to be the pretentious coonts they come across as.
 
2012-04-23 02:40:34 PM

EWreckedSean: I'm here to poop.


Thread's over, folks.
 
2012-04-23 02:42:26 PM
This is a country, who on most years for the last 30 years would envy the unemployment rate we have now. Yay let's use them as a model for economic success!

2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-04-23 02:42:36 PM

joonyer: EWreckedSean: I'm here to poop.

Thread's over, folks.


You have to admire such an incredible level of honesty.
 
2012-04-23 02:48:05 PM

EWreckedSean: This is a country, who on most years for the last 30 years would envy the unemployment rate we have now. Yay let's use them as a model for economic success!

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 630x378]


I'd take that employment rate over all the Wal Mart workers who make so little they're still sucking the government teat.
 
2012-04-23 02:49:43 PM

Slaxl: Serious Black: 5) Even the far right is against free enterprise.

The far right political party in France is further to the left than our furthest left political caucus in Congress. That should tell you how messed up America is.

No, it should tell you how bad it can be to base things on a simple line from far left to far right. That oversimplifies and doesn't tell half the story. It's something that's messed up in every country that uses the far left to far right political spectrum line.


i41.tinypic.com
 
2012-04-23 02:50:57 PM

Serious Black: 5) Even the far right is against free enterprise.

The far right political party in France is further to the left than our furthest left political caucus in Congress. That should tell you how messed up America is.


don't be a f*cking idiot.
free enterprise is never the problem, it's rent seeking and corruption.
and the french are f*cking idiots for having a problem with free enterprise.
 
2012-04-23 02:51:16 PM
6. Bragging about who can surrender faster to the Germans and the Bundesbank.

/third time is a charm
//the next race in sovereign default will be between France and the USA
 
2012-04-23 02:55:17 PM

12349876: EWreckedSean: This is a country, who on most years for the last 30 years would envy the unemployment rate we have now. Yay let's use them as a model for economic success!

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 630x378]

I'd take that employment rate over all the Wal Mart workers who make so little they're still sucking the government teat.


You know, except that their poverty rate is slightly higher than ours even, but thanks for playing...
 
2012-04-23 02:56:11 PM

Slaxl: Serious Black: 5) Even the far right is against free enterprise.

The far right political party in France is further to the left than our furthest left political caucus in Congress. That should tell you how messed up America is.

No, it should tell you how bad it can be to base things on a simple line from far left to far right. That oversimplifies and doesn't tell half the story. It's something that's messed up in every country that uses the far left to far right political spectrum line.


Exactly right. The truth is that there is very much a right wing throughout Europe, with different shades in different countries (suffused with a more explicit dose of nativism/nationalism than we're used to seeing here). It should hardly come as a surprise that someone whose platform is based on anti-immigrant sentiment would also be very protectionist; the best analogy in U.S. politics would be Tom Tancredo, perhaps with a sprinkling of Mike Huckabee -- hardly "further to the left than our furthest left political caucus in Congress."
 
2012-04-23 02:58:27 PM
"Sacre bleu!"
 
2012-04-23 02:59:03 PM
The President of Germany is an atheist, the front-runner in France's presidential election is actually a Socialist, gay marriage is legal in quite a few European countries, the EU's economy is larger than that of the US, unemployment for the EU is about equal to that of the US but everyone has health care...

...yeah, I wish we heard more of these things in the US.
 
2012-04-23 03:04:02 PM
Bullshiat, those five things are Obama's entire reelection platform.
 
2012-04-23 03:04:17 PM

EWreckedSean: SoCalSurfer: Things that are the same:

"Too many muslims"

They are actually way more anti-muslim then we are. Just remember, Muslim's are their Mexicans.


I actually expected france to go full on racist/fascist when the economy tanked. There was a bunch of race riots the summer previous all steming with the muslem population being difaffected because of low employment (when you had the high unemployment for new immegrants it really is a low employment problem). I am surprised that they went with the shadow enemies are the "rich".
 
2012-04-23 03:07:32 PM

Serious Black: 5) Even the far right is against free enterprise.

The far right political party in France is further to the left than our furthest left political caucus in Congress. That should tell you how messed up America is.


Why can't it tell me how messed up France is?
 
2012-04-23 03:10:04 PM

EWreckedSean: 12349876: EWreckedSean: This is a country, who on most years for the last 30 years would envy the unemployment rate we have now. Yay let's use them as a model for economic success!

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 630x378]

I'd take that employment rate over all the Wal Mart workers who make so little they're still sucking the government teat.

You know, except that their poverty rate is slightly higher than ours even, but thanks for playing...


Bullshiat.

However, the poorest 10% of the US citizens have an
income of US$5,800 US$ per year - about 20% lower than the average for OECD countries.

The United States is the country with the highest inequality level and poverty across the OECD, Mexico and Turkey excepted.

However, the poorest
10% of the French population have an income of almost US$ 9,000 per year - about 25%
higher than the average for OECD countries.

France is one of only five OECD countries where income inequality and poverty have declined
over the past 20 years.


pdf warning
http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/45/24/41525323.pdf
http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/47/2/41528678.pdf
 
2012-04-23 03:10:20 PM

whither_apophis: mrshowrules: Slaxl: Serious Black: 5) Even the far right is against free enterprise.

The far right political party in France is further to the left than our furthest left political caucus in Congress. That should tell you how messed up America is.

No, it should tell you how bad it can be to base things on a simple line from far left to far right. That oversimplifies and doesn't tell half the story. It's something that's messed up in every country that uses the far left to far right political spectrum line.

You should be able to vote for three Presidents:

- President (Commander-in-Chief) for foreign policy, security and defence.

- President Budget/Taxation/Program Spending

- President Domestic Policies, Social issues and Law Enforcement

Something smarter than pro-lifer/tax cutter/war hawk versus abortion lover/tax raiser/appeaser

Do you know who else had a triumvirate?

/or do mean a troika comrade?


Operation Rescue?

/actually obscure
//religious studies is a weird sort of study
 
2012-04-23 03:11:17 PM

12349876: EWreckedSean: 12349876: EWreckedSean: This is a country, who on most years for the last 30 years would envy the unemployment rate we have now. Yay let's use them as a model for economic success!

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 630x378]

I'd take that employment rate over all the Wal Mart workers who make so little they're still sucking the government teat.

You know, except that their poverty rate is slightly higher than ours even, but thanks for playing...

Bullshiat.

However, the poorest 10% of the US citizens have an
income of US$5,800 US$ per year - about 20% lower than the average for OECD countries.

The United States is the country with the highest inequality level and poverty across the OECD, Mexico and Turkey excepted.

However, the poorest
10% of the French population have an income of almost US$ 9,000 per year - about 25%
higher than the average for OECD countries.

France is one of only five OECD countries where income inequality and poverty have declined
over the past 20 years.

pdf warning
http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/45/24/41525323.pdf
http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/47/2/41528678.pdf


Pfft. I bet they all have X-Boxes.
 
2012-04-23 03:12:36 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: Why couldn't it tell you how messed up France is? The favorite in their presidential election favors a 75% tax bracket. That fact by itself is evidence that France, and the French, are farked up.



The US's top tax bracket was 70% or greater between 1936 and 1980, with the majoirty of that period having an over 80% rate. The bracket thresholds were much different back then than they are now, but I don't see why a simple proposal of a new high percentage bracket would give people the vapors.
 
2012-04-23 03:17:33 PM

Bad_Seed: Rapmaster2000: Marine Le Pen, the candidate of the far-right National Front who got 20 percent of the vote on Sunday, largely appealed to voters by stirring up fears of foreigners taking French jobs, terrorism and euro-bashing.

It's interesting how even in France the right-wing female politicians always have to be "sexy".

[upload.wikimedia.org image 220x293]

Quoi?



That's a picture of the wrong Le Pen. Marine is Jean-Marie's daughter.

Here is Marine:

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-04-23 03:19:00 PM

karnal: jigger


5) Even the far right is against free enterprise.

No, that's pretty typical in the US too. They took'er jerbs!

No:

Republicans believe free enterprise has brought economic growth and innovations that have made this country great. Government should help stimulate a business environment where people are free to use their talents.


The US Government was behind the most important innovations of the 20th century. You want business to focus on using their talents or managing their employees health care insurance plans? In Canada, employers focus on what they do best. In the US, businesses have to worry about looking after their employees health care needs and that is why other countries are more competitive.

Single payer would be the single biggest advantage you could give the private sector today in the US. Give you a trade advantage, focus on business, reduce overhead, increase employee mobility and allow individuals to take risk/chances on starting new businesses, hiring or retaining employees.
 
2012-04-23 03:20:23 PM
wealthy French people have an interesting choice between sarkozy and hollande.

Sarkozy won't push another wealth tax beyond the solidarity tax that was imposed last year. However, he does want to start taxing citizens on income earned from overseas (very few countries besides the US do this) which is pissing off the expat community to no end.

on the other hand, Hollande wants a punishing tax on high earners, which could prompt an outflow of senior executives from France. some of this has happened already: Schneider Electric, a French energy equipment company with €20 billion in revenue, is being run out of Hong Kong.
 
2012-04-23 03:24:50 PM

Cubicle Jockey: Debeo Summa Credo: Why couldn't it tell you how messed up France is? The favorite in their presidential election favors a 75% tax bracket. That fact by itself is evidence that France, and the French, are farked up.


The US's top tax bracket was 70% or greater between 1936 and 1980, with the majoirty of that period having an over 80% rate. The bracket thresholds were much different back then than they are now, but I don't see why a simple proposal of a new high percentage bracket would give people the vapors.


Yeah, but hardly anyone paid that. Tax shelters were legal and accepted (all those sale-leasebacks); everyone who was anyone had a Swiss account that went unreported to the government; the cash economy was much greater than it is now; controlled foreign corporations allowed people to keep passive investment earnings entirely offshore, legally, until 1962; etc. I'd much rather have a lower rate that people actually pay than a high rate that people go to great lengths to avoid. Mind you, I favor eliminating the carried interest loophole and bringing rates back to where they were before the Bush tax cuts... I'm just saying we're not going to be able to go back to 70% again, and that's a good thing.
 
2012-04-23 03:25:34 PM

12349876: EWreckedSean: 12349876: EWreckedSean: This is a country, who on most years for the last 30 years would envy the unemployment rate we have now. Yay let's use them as a model for economic success!

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 630x378]

I'd take that employment rate over all the Wal Mart workers who make so little they're still sucking the government teat.

You know, except that their poverty rate is slightly higher than ours even, but thanks for playing...

Bullshiat.

However, the poorest 10% of the US citizens have an
income of US$5,800 US$ per year - about 20% lower than the average for OECD countries.

The United States is the country with the highest inequality level and poverty across the OECD, Mexico and Turkey excepted.

However, the poorest
10% of the French population have an income of almost US$ 9,000 per year - about 25%
higher than the average for OECD countries.

France is one of only five OECD countries where income inequality and poverty have declined
over the past 20 years.

pdf warning
http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/45/24/41525323.pdf
http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/47/2/41528678.pdf


Question: Does the "poorest 10%" include retirees, college students, and stay-at-home parents filing as married/seperate?

Because I "made" $2K one year, but when I graduate, I can waltz into a $60-80K (or $100+K plus Stock if I don't mind sleeping at the office) job.

And my uncle (who was a schoolteacher) is retired and doesn't "make" any money, but he owns 3 houses and 8 cars.

And my aunt was once married to a "slightly richer than God" husband, got divorced, and made enough off the divorce that she'll never work again.

So we're all quite "poor", but at the same time we're firmly middle-class to rich.
 
2012-04-23 03:26:57 PM

joonyer: 2) Very high taxes on the wealthy.

True, in the US we allow people to keep the money they've worked their entire life to earn

Ahh, so you think the wealthy created their wealth in a vaccuum? Just fabricated it with their good genes and trust funds?


Apparently Lost Thought thinks that when he files his taxes each April 15th, he's giving some from every paycheck since that lawmower job in sixth grade.
 
2012-04-23 03:28:49 PM

meyerkev: 12349876: EWreckedSean: 12349876: EWreckedSean: This is a country, who on most years for the last 30 years would envy the unemployment rate we have now. Yay let's use them as a model for economic success!

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 630x378]

I'd take that employment rate over all the Wal Mart workers who make so little they're still sucking the government teat.

You know, except that their poverty rate is slightly higher than ours even, but thanks for playing...

Bullshiat.

However, the poorest 10% of the US citizens have an
income of US$5,800 US$ per year - about 20% lower than the average for OECD countries.

The United States is the country with the highest inequality level and poverty across the OECD, Mexico and Turkey excepted.

However, the poorest
10% of the French population have an income of almost US$ 9,000 per year - about 25%
higher than the average for OECD countries.

France is one of only five OECD countries where income inequality and poverty have declined
over the past 20 years.

pdf warning
http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/45/24/41525323.pdf
http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/47/2/41528678.pdf

Question: Does the "poorest 10%" include retirees, college students, and stay-at-home parents filing as married/seperate?

Because I "made" $2K one year, but when I graduate, I can waltz into a $60-80K (or $100+K plus Stock if I don't mind sleeping at the office) job.

And my uncle (who was a schoolteacher) is retired and doesn't "make" any money, but he owns 3 houses and 8 cars.

And my aunt was once married to a "slightly richer than God" husband, got divorced, and made enough off the divorce that she'll never work again.

So we're all quite "poor", but at the same time we're firmly middle-class to rich.


it would not include most retirees; social security's average benefit payment is over $1200 a month these days.

Link
 
2012-04-23 03:31:22 PM

mrshowrules: You want business to focus on using their talents or managing their employees health care insurance plans?


Its amazing how despite being saddled with such a huge barrier to success over the past 200 years American companies have still managed to push our GDP to nearly 2x the amount of our nearest competitor!
 
2012-04-23 03:33:04 PM

I alone am best: mrshowrules: You want business to focus on using their talents or managing their employees health care insurance plans?

Its amazing how despite being saddled with such a huge barrier to success over the past 200 years American companies have still managed to push our GDP to nearly 2x the amount of our nearest competitor!


GDP is not a good indicator of national welfare.
 
2012-04-23 03:35:54 PM

CPennypacker: I alone am best: mrshowrules: You want business to focus on using their talents or managing their employees health care insurance plans?

Its amazing how despite being saddled with such a huge barrier to success over the past 200 years American companies have still managed to push our GDP to nearly 2x the amount of our nearest competitor!

GDP is not a good indicator of national welfare.


That wasn't the argument. The argument was that a single payer system would be a boon to the private sector. I'm saying that it isn't needed for the private sector to succeed.

National welfare would be completely separate discussion.
 
2012-04-23 03:38:40 PM

I alone am best: mrshowrules: You want business to focus on using their talents or managing their employees health care insurance plans?

Its amazing how despite being saddled with such a huge barrier to success over the past 200 years American companies have still managed to push our GDP to nearly 2x the amount of our nearest competitor!


Thank God you guys haven't adapted in the past 200 years.

If you think employer funded health insurance is a good idea and helps keep the competitive with other countries, you are part of a shrinking minority.
 
2012-04-23 03:40:15 PM

mrshowrules: I alone am best: mrshowrules: You want business to focus on using their talents or managing their employees health care insurance plans?

Its amazing how despite being saddled with such a huge barrier to success over the past 200 years American companies have still managed to push our GDP to nearly 2x the amount of our nearest competitor!

Thank God you guys haven't adapted in the past 200 years.

If you think employer funded health insurance is a good idea and helps keep the competitive with other countries, you are part of a shrinking minority.


It looks like something is obviously working in our favor? Since we dont have single payer its not that.
 
2012-04-23 03:45:24 PM

AcneVulgaris: Serious Black: 5) Even the far right is against free enterprise.

The far right political party in France is further to the left than our furthest left political caucus in Congress. That should tell you how messed up America is.

Why can't it tell me how messed up France is?


Keep in mind that it's not just in France, but also in the rest of the industrialized world.

In which other first world nation would Obama be considered left wing?
 
2012-04-23 03:45:35 PM

I alone am best: mrshowrules: You want business to focus on using their talents or managing their employees health care insurance plans?

Its amazing how despite being saddled with such a huge barrier to success over the past 200 years American companies have still managed to push our GDP to nearly 2x the amount of our nearest competitor!


American companies didn't start providing health care to employees until the 1940s. It was those damn unions again. That and the WW2 labor shortage. Companies offered health care as an employment incentive.

http://www.staysmartstayhealthy.com/health_care_history_inthe_united_ s tates

/the more you know...
 
2012-04-23 03:46:54 PM

12349876: EWreckedSean: 12349876: EWreckedSean: This is a country, who on most years for the last 30 years would envy the unemployment rate we have now. Yay let's use them as a model for economic success!

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 630x378]

I'd take that employment rate over all the Wal Mart workers who make so little they're still sucking the government teat.

You know, except that their poverty rate is slightly higher than ours even, but thanks for playing...

Bullshiat.

However, the poorest 10% of the US citizens have an
income of US$5,800 US$ per year - about 20% lower than the average for OECD countries.

The United States is the country with the highest inequality level and poverty across the OECD, Mexico and Turkey excepted.

However, the poorest
10% of the French population have an income of almost US$ 9,000 per year - about 25%
higher than the average for OECD countries.

France is one of only five OECD countries where income inequality and poverty have declined
over the past 20 years.

pdf warning
http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/45/24/41525323.pdf
http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/47/2/41528678.pdf


A few questions about the graph, are the income numbers PPP adjusted? If is the poverty rate based on that country or on the OECD countries overall?

I looked at this before and found that at about the 25th percentile or above you were better off being in America than in any other large, developed country. But below the 25th percentile it became preferable to be in other countries. Should public policy be tailored to making life slightly less crappy for those at the bottom (9k vs 5k is just a different level of suck)? Or improving the impact on the other 75%?
 
2012-04-23 03:55:31 PM

I alone am best: mrshowrules: I alone am best: mrshowrules: You want business to focus on using their talents or managing their employees health care insurance plans?

Its amazing how despite being saddled with such a huge barrier to success over the past 200 years American companies have still managed to push our GDP to nearly 2x the amount of our nearest competitor!

Thank God you guys haven't adapted in the past 200 years.

If you think employer funded health insurance is a good idea and helps keep the competitive with other countries, you are part of a shrinking minority.

It looks like something is obviously working in our favor? Since we dont have single payer its not that.


Considering health care costs have sky rocketed in the past couple of decades you might be dealing with a problem relatively shorter than 200 years.

If only there was a way to talk to small businesses about why they are finding it harder and harder to compete with other countries.

I was literally responding to a post about how Republicans want to make businesses more competitive and focus on their "talents".

Single-payer is no-brainer for this. Being half the cost overall is just icing on the cake but seeing as the US GDP is so strong, you probably don't need this advantage (I guess that is your logic).
 
2012-04-23 04:00:57 PM

rustypouch: AcneVulgaris: Serious Black: 5) Even the far right is against free enterprise.

The far right political party in France is further to the left than our furthest left political caucus in Congress. That should tell you how messed up America is.

Why can't it tell me how messed up France is?

Keep in mind that it's not just in France, but also in the rest of the industrialized world.

In which other first world nation would Obama be considered left wing?


From a Canadian perspective, Obama would be considered a right-leaning centrist. For whatever that is worth.
 
2012-04-23 04:02:14 PM
EWreckedSean:

You know, except that their poverty rate is slightly higher than ours even, but thanks for playing...

The CIA would disagree with you...

Percentage of population living below the national poverty line:

France: 6.2%
USA: 15.1%

Source: wikipedia

Also, you have to consider the quality of life of not just the poorest, but anyone earning less than the median income. In France you at least will have health-care, quality secondary and cheap post-secondary education and subsidised housing. In the US almost 50mn people don't have health insurance and many more are one serious medial issue away from bankruptcy.
 
2012-04-23 04:05:04 PM

fapage: EWreckedSean:

You know, except that their poverty rate is slightly higher than ours even, but thanks for playing...

The CIA would disagree with you...

Percentage of population living below the national poverty line:

France: 6.2%
USA: 15.1%

Source: wikipedia

Also, you have to consider the quality of life of not just the poorest, but anyone earning less than the median income. In France you at least will have health-care, quality secondary and cheap post-secondary education and subsidised housing. In the US almost 50mn people don't have health insurance and many more are one serious medial issue away from bankruptcy.


You are talking with a person who thinks the reason single-payer wouldn't work in the US is because of geography.
 
2012-04-23 04:09:46 PM

mrshowrules: Considering health care costs have sky rocketed in the past couple of decades you might be dealing with a problem relatively shorter than 200 years.


That's where the problem is. Its not health insurance its the cost of health care,
 
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