hailin: chiefsfaninkc: Yep it it a really great idea for the Government to try to control a vice. History has shown this to have been a complete success with alcohol, marijuana and other elicit drugs in the US.

As soon as governments realize the the attempted control of any vice will lead to nothing but violent crime we will all be better off. Be it drugs or prostitution or other vice there has never been a successful implementation of a prohibition but it sure has made many pimps and drug gangs rich.

Pretty much. Just makes it all legal to buy/use at a certain age, but illegal to use while operating machinery and then put the enforcement money into free rehab and education programs. We would all be better off.

And for the record businesses could still drug test even if it is legal. I worked for a company that did not allow tobacco smoking or alcohol of any kind (on or off work) and required weekly drug tests. Yeah...I didn't last there long.

What company?

cmunic8r99: I'm a smoker, and I'd be OK with making them $100 per pack. That cost would be just motivator that's never been significant (enough) to make me quit once and for all.

Really? The short-term dollar cost is what might motivate you to quit? OK, let me try to not sound like a dick ... I hope you find the right motivation, cuz it's tough to quit without a real reason other than "gosh it's so bad for you".

Can I interest you in a few of these significant medium and long-term risks?

Cancer
Lung disease
Liver disease
Heart disease
Higher rate of acute illnesses (colds etc)
Loss of smell
Loss of taste
Grumpiness and anger from addiction
Silly or irrational behavior caused by addiction
Fingers that smell like stale cigarette smoke
Hair that smells like stale cigarette smoke
Clothes that smell like stale cigarette smoke
Lower physical energy and stamina
and so on ...

jehovahs witness protection: Don't give Scumbama any bright ideas.

Well duh, I mean why do you think Marlborobama quit smoking?

I stopped smoking 3 years ago, once prices spiked to over $6.00. Health issues were purely secondary, mine was a strictly economic choice. I could have started picking up tobacco on the rez for cheap, but that would have required more than a 5-min drive. See, laziness does occasionally have its benefits.

Honestly, raising the price this high will only do one thing. Create a huge black market in illegal cigarettes. Didn't work for Alchohol or other drugs, why would they expect it to work here.

Roger_the_Shrubber: cmunic8r99: I'm a smoker, and I'd be OK with making them $100 per pack. That cost would be just motivator that's never been significant (enough) to make me quit once and for all.

Really? The short-term dollar cost is what might motivate you to quit? OK, let me try to not sound like a dick ... I hope you find the right motivation, cuz it's tough to quit without a real reason other than "gosh it's so bad for you".

Can I interest you in a few of these significant medium and long-term risks?

Cancer
Lung disease
Liver disease
Heart disease
Higher rate of acute illnesses (colds etc)
Loss of smell
Loss of taste
Grumpiness and anger from addiction
Silly or irrational behavior caused by addiction
Fingers that smell like stale cigarette smoke
Hair that smells like stale cigarette smoke
Clothes that smell like stale cigarette smoke
Lower physical energy and stamina
and so on ...

Wow, you're a dick.

downstairs : Oh just get over it. I smoke, its my choice. I don't smoke in restaurants- its banned, and I'm fine with stepping outside. I don't smoke in my house when guests who don't like smoke are here.



But on the flip side, we have smokers who smoke in their car (with their arm hanging out the window so that they can flick the ashes outside of the car), who throw their still lit butts onto the side of the road and start wildfires that destroy millions of dollars worth of property.

Charge the end user!

Do not Charge the Industry for adulterating the tobacco in such ways that it raises the cancer rate 1000x.

Don't you know that is FREEBASE NICOTINE you are inhaling? Thank the ammonia bath the industry gives the tobacco.
The clove oil they add to force open your bronchial sacks, the sugar they add to sweeten,
which fills those open sacs with caramel, the cheap fertilizers kicked down from filtering industrial waste that contain radioactivity... A giger counter can show you that... take one to a carton.

Charge the Industry with crimes against the people.
They are more responsible for cancer than the original plant they were selling.

Adulterated tobacco makes them money, and kills you 1000 times faster.
Why is that legal? Is that legal? Lobby money keeps it legal.

YAY Adulterated Tobacco

softshoes: /5yrs smoke free last March.

Way to go!

I have noticed that quitting smoking gains me a lot of respect and support from people. So I make a policy of doing it often :-)

Did quit about 3 weeks ago, and now I'm wondering why I wanted to live longer :-)

The phrase "tyranny of the majority" immediately springs to mind.

MagSeven: My guess? In a few years, someone in NZ will be blowing someone else for a cigarette.


That clicking sound you hear are hundreds of Farkers buying cartons of Camels and plane tickets to NZ...

downstairs: Oh just get over it. I smoke, its my choice. I don't smoke in restaurants- its banned, and I'm fine with stepping outside. I don't smoke in my house when guests who don't like smoke are here.

If you smoke in the house when you don't have company, you might as well smoke in there when you do. Stinks just as bad.

Approves!

Jake Havechek: Roger_the_Shrubber: cmunic8r99: I'm a smoker, and I'd be OK with making them $100 per pack. That cost would be just motivator that's never been significant (enough) to make me quit once and for all.

Really? The short-term dollar cost is what might motivate you to quit? OK, let me try to not sound like a dick ... I hope you find the right motivation, cuz it's tough to quit without a real reason other than "gosh it's so bad for you".

Can I interest you in a few of these significant medium and long-term risks?

Cancer
Lung disease
Liver disease
Heart disease
Higher rate of acute illnesses (colds etc)
Loss of smell
Loss of taste
Grumpiness and anger from addiction
Silly or irrational behavior caused by addiction
Fingers that smell like stale cigarette smoke
Hair that smells like stale cigarette smoke
Clothes that smell like stale cigarette smoke
Lower physical energy and stamina
and so on ...

Wow, you're a dick.

Don't forget that smoking also makes you a dick!

Cool. When are they gonna do that to sugar, which I understand is as bad, if not worse than tobacco???


Link

There are many more citations if you feel like looking for them.

It's the Obama gas/alternative fuel policy being applied to tobacco. Brilliant!

There is already a small segment of New Zealand enjoying the finest black-market pipe-weed this side of Mordor... also buttsecks

OgreMagi: hailin: And for the record businesses could still drug test even if it is legal. I worked for a company that did not allow tobacco smoking or alcohol of any kind (on or off work) and required weekly drug tests. Yeah...I didn't last there long.

Who would work for a company that thought it was ok to interfere in a person's private life this much? Seriously? A job offer from a company with this attitude should get the standard response of, "go fark yourself".

Well I didn't realize it was that bad. When I agreed to work HR said there were "random drugs tests". I figured it was for illegal drugs. I went out to have a smoke break and my supervisor walked by and freaked out. Told me it was my one warning then rattled off other things I could have (like alcohol). I should have known something was up when the break room had only water and fruit with signs saying "Sugar will kill you!" and the negative effects of alcohol.

Surprisingly that isn't the only company I worked for with intolerance to smoking. The job I had after college I went and had a cigarette, then the owner pulled me in front of all the employees, lectured me on how bad smoking is for you, told me I smelled horrible (none of my co-workers thought I did, or so they told me afterward), had me remove my blazer and threw it outside (which was humiliating since I had a see-throughish camisole underneath), and then ended up sending me home to shower anyway. I should have taken the hint and left that first day, but I wanted to work so I stuck with the psycho for a year.

Freedom, ye assassins name be health Nazis.

shaunmark: What company?

I don't remember, it was some stupid green company with a name like Fizzd or Rizzd. I worked there exactly three days. They sold green solutions to companies.I don't think they are in business since the collapse though.

lordargent:
But on the flip side, we have smokers who smoke in their car (with their arm hanging out the window so that they can flick the ashes outside of the car), who throw their still lit butts onto the side of the road and start wildfires that destroy millions of dollars worth of property.

You cannot save them all. Stop spending so much money on policing that which cannot be stopped.

if smoking cigarettes ceases:
will there still be littering? yes
will there still be wildfires? yes
will people still die from cancer? yes
will governments still look for other ways to increase revenue? yes

taxes on cigarettes have about as much to do with safety as traffic light cameras.

See Kids? When the goverment decides it doesn't like what you are doing to your body, it can do all sorts of things to force you to do what it feels is best. It knows better.

Jake Havechek: Wow, you're a dick.

[sigh] Yeah, pretty much.

But we just don't often consider the costs outside the paper in our wallets.

Cool, right on time, newton just posted another factor - there's what the tobacco industry is doing to the product. It just ain't natural!

But mass-produced cigarettes are cheap and convenient and highly addictive.

So how about ... "Think of the children?" No?

People still smoke?

Strik3r: Cool. When are they gonna do that to sugar, which I understand is as bad, if not worse than tobacco

Second hand sugar doesn't sound very appetizing.

I imagine it would look like this.

When I go to NZ I look forward to buying my tobacco in dimes

/The whole world has turned republican stupid

Cigarettes should be at a dollar a piece to start.

Strik3r: Cool. When are they gonna do that to sugar, which I understand is as bad, if not worse than tobacco???


Link

There are many more citations if you feel like looking for them.

Yeah. Enjoy eating your All-Bran and your unsweetened oatmeal. mmmm..

This has been dealt with quickly in the thread but yeah, my first thought was

Coming to New Zealand: $100 Packs of Cigarettes? An explosion in Black Market Cigarettes

The way I see it, nicotine isn't very addictive. We know this because the manufacturers themselves have confirmed it. Therefore, if NZ increased tobacco taxes to $100 a pack, NZ consumers would simply make the reasonable decision to stop buying them. There will be no black market takeover due to a lack of a viable market and cigarette smoking will largely vanish from the island forever.

/Oh, man. That monkey hurt like hell when it flew out of my ass!

tommydee: softshoes: /5yrs smoke free last March.
Way to go!
I have noticed that quitting smoking gains me a lot of respect and support from people. So I make a policy of doing it often :-)
Did quit about 3 weeks ago, and now I'm wondering why I wanted to live longer :-)

It's been said a million times. NOBODY LIKES A QUITTER!

Just switch to crack: it's cheaper, and it's a good way to meet chicks - at least I think they were chicks...

Christian Bale: They should raise the price slowly so that black market cigarettes don't just take over.

At $100 a pop, they'd be a huge black market for them, with even worse ingredients if that's possible. I suppose NZ can control imports better than most, but not completely.

I live in Toronto, the pot here isn't imported.

/Tobacco is also a weed
//They'll figure it out

Why don't they just make tobacco illegal to grow, as they do marijuana? Tobacco is a killer, and if you smoke, you are dumber than rocks.

This is personal to me. I quit in the 80s, when cigarettes were $1 a pack...it was too expensive. My darling wife never could. She has had breast and lung cancer, destroyed her health (the lung cancer was cured, but she's been 10 YEARS trying to get her energy back), destroyed our finances (health insurance? It still cost us about $30K after they paid. it's been 10 years, too). She still smokes. If it was $100 a pack, she'd still smoke. Non-smokers don't understand the addiction. It's a habit that needs to not START.

Stop the growing and sale of tobacco except as a prescription (I don't want to eliminate the possibility of a medical use...And anyone who can afford doctors that'll write it, deserve to die of it) STOP THE GROWTH OF TOBACCO. It's the only way to stop the death.

/Smokers, take a hint. those graphic pictures are your future
//and maybe the future of somebody close to you (I'm waiting...)

b3x: taxes on cigarettes have about as much to do with safety as traffic light cameras.

I would rather have them start enforcing the laws that are on the books and collecting fines.

// but it's easier to just tax at the time of sale so it will never happened. As a result, everyone is getting penalized instead of just the offenders.

Ok so make "cigarettes" 100 dollars a pack--then legalize marijuana and PROFIT. I always find it amusing that people will be all "hate the smokers but free the weed" When the weed is way worse for your lungs.

how about making coke 50$ a liter and 25$ for a big mac while you're at it. they too cause health problems.

chiefsfaninkc: debug: It would never happen in the USA, we make far too much money off the taxes to ever consider banning or effectively banning tobacco.

No such thing as an effective ban on anything. It just creates a black market.

Sure there is. Even if it becomes available on the black market, it's still effectively banned, as far as tax revenue is concerned, since you don't collect taxes on purchases from the black market. Wether it's still available or not doesn't matter since it isn't being taxed anymore and that's something the US will never allow to happen. We're to addicted to the tax money.

lordargent: Strik3r: Cool. When are they gonna do that to sugar, which I understand is as bad, if not worse than tobacco

Second hand sugar doesn't sound very appetizing.

I imagine it would look like this.
[www.scienceclarified.com image 328x424]

Sugar is ALWAYS delivered first hand in just about every product you consume. No need for second hand sugar.

Roger_the_Shrubber: But we just don't often consider the costs outside the paper in our wallets.

Yeah cuz we never ever heard that smoking was a health risk.

beta_plus: Canada tried this back in the 90s. It didn't end well.

/you can only tax people so much before they cheat

You mean like NOW

/ProTip most Cigarettes sold in Canada are not legit
//Should say VAST MAJORITY

Jon iz teh kewl: Strik3r: Cool. When are they gonna do that to sugar, which I understand is as bad, if not worse than tobacco???


Link

There are many more citations if you feel like looking for them.

Yeah. Enjoy eating your All-Bran and your unsweetened oatmeal. mmmm..

Well, you know, LIFE is dangerous...... People die from it all the time......