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(Chaos Computer Club)   Not News: Girl sent home from school for wearing "provocative" clothing. Fark: Her skirt was too long   (thelocal.fr) divider line 84
    More: Strange, Le Parisien, religious values, middle schools, veils  
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15433 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Apr 2012 at 11:14 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-23 12:43:36 PM

Tatsuma: If her name had been Jeanne Saint-Claire, blue eyes blond hair and fair skin, and the right taste in cheese, they would not have said a single word about it.


But her name is Khadija, brown eyes dark hair and darker skin, and she prefers hummus, so she can either become properly French or get the fark out of France.


They hate the constant reminder that Hummus is worlds away better than Camembert, which translates into English as "garbage paste."
 
2012-04-23 12:43:42 PM

Tatsuma: But her name is Khadija, brown eyes dark hair and darker skin, and she prefers hummus, so she can either become properly French or get the fark out of France.


Why does Khadija have to be black, not gonna lie kinda ruined the outfit.
 
2012-04-23 12:45:29 PM

StaleCoffee: They hate the constant reminder that Hummus is worlds away better than Camembert, which translates into English as "garbage paste."


Absolutely. Hummus over Camembert any day. I love 99 cheeses but camembert ain't one.
 
2012-04-23 12:48:14 PM
You the the right to free speech as long as it's not in public where people can hear you. You can say whatever you want as long as its quietly to yourself in your own home... and it isn't anything we disagree with. Ah, sweet Freedom.
 
2012-04-23 01:08:16 PM

Quigs: Telling gypsys, Roma, whatever they can't wear a certain type of clothing is goofy, same as saying Muslims can't be all masked up, or telling Atheists they can't be snooty and self-righteous.


Roma, however, are scum of the earth. I would much rather deal with the most rabid hardcore muslim than a farking gypsy any day of the week.
 
2012-04-23 01:10:57 PM

Tatsuma: Grables'Daughter: Do I have this right?

No, this is actually just one of the many many many exclusionary and xenophobic measures that the French use against muslims and other immigrants.


So what?
 
2012-04-23 01:11:32 PM
somehow this seems to belong here.

24.media.tumblr.com
 
2012-04-23 01:20:53 PM
Bad translation is bad.

In French "Provocante" can mean provocative or provoking. They meant the latter, but used the former.
 
2012-04-23 01:23:25 PM

Quigs: StaleCoffee: Diogenes: ArkAngel: Diogenes: In 2004, a ban on religious symbols in schools came into effect, meaning Muslims girls were no longer allowed to wear a veil in class.

Or a cross or a Star of David. Ridiculous.

Where are the famed French values of liberté and égalité? This is more like a parent who says if you can't play nice together with your toys they're going to take them all away. It's a perversion of equal rights. Everyone is equal because the state took all their differences away.

Another of France's values is secularity. They don't like religion in public.

I am certainly not a religious person. But I think my perspective as a gay person applies here. I don't like the idea of forcing religious into the closet any more than I do homosexuals.

I believe in the Vulcan credo (uh oh my geek is showing): Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations

As a heterosexual atheist I agree. Adhering to religious beliefs is not the same as proselytizing, imo. While the schools shouldn't be promoting that stuff, banning it entirely is the other extreme.

I doubt anyone in the fark religious right will care since it's muslims, though.

I like that term; Religious Right. It implications are many, and usually lets me know that the person using it is a goober. The fact that the poster also implies that he's superior to everyone in the Religious Right kind of compounds the feeling that he's a goober.

However, I'm a Biblical Christian, and think everyone should live their own lives as they please, as long as it doesn't screw with anyone else's freedom. Telling gypsys, Roma, whatever they can't wear a certain type of clothing is goofy, same as saying Muslims can't be all masked up, or telling Atheists they can't be snooty and self-righteous. Plenty of folks are only getting one pass at this, let them make it one hell of a pass.


Your religion is dumb and so are you.
 
2012-04-23 01:31:11 PM

capt.hollister: Bad translation is bad.

In French "Provocante" can mean provocative or provoking. They meant the latter, but used the former.


In English, provocative means provoking.
 
2012-04-23 01:51:05 PM
images3.chictopia.com
3.bp.blogspot.com
wwzdw.com
 
2012-04-23 01:54:41 PM
There is nothing better than a good skirt and blouse combination...
 
2012-04-23 01:58:59 PM

Diogenes: lilplatinum: Diogenes: I believe in the Vulcan credo (uh oh my geek is showing): Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations

Yeah, lets just look to the middle east to see how great religious diversity is.

What is this I don't even.....


You have the three mail world religions all claiming the same holy site, look how much peace and prosperity has brought us. Jews putting Muslims in concentration camps, muslims blowing up jews, christians playing around with the region to bring on apocalypse. God, conflicting fairy tale beliefs sure bring that good kind of diversity to the world!
 
2012-04-23 02:01:12 PM

Tatsuma: France has always been known for being a xenophobic, hedonistic state filled with complaining wankers who roll over at the first bang.

Not a surprise.


And despite being populated by utter coonts (especially Paris), it is leaps and bounds a better tourist destination than your little portion of hell that you idiots have decided you should live in.
 
2012-04-23 02:13:12 PM

lilplatinum: Diogenes: lilplatinum: Diogenes: I believe in the Vulcan credo (uh oh my geek is showing): Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations

Yeah, lets just look to the middle east to see how great religious diversity is.

What is this I don't even.....

You have the three mail world religions all claiming the same holy site, look how much peace and prosperity has brought us. Jews putting Muslims in concentration camps, muslims blowing up jews, christians playing around with the region to bring on apocalypse. God, conflicting fairy tale beliefs sure bring that good kind of diversity to the world!


Thanks for that clarification (serious, I wasn't quite sure where you were going). However, my argument to that would be that what you described is not diversity. Or, at least, not diversity done correctly. Diversity implies sharing and partnership.
 
2012-04-23 02:43:59 PM

Mock26: Quigs: Telling gypsys, Roma, whatever they can't wear a certain type of clothing is goofy, same as saying Muslims can't be all masked up, or telling Atheists they can't be snooty and self-righteous.

Roma, however, are scum of the earth. I would much rather deal with the most rabid hardcore muslim than a farking gypsy any day of the week.


The ones I've met... yeah. Had a family move into the mall where I work. They moved into the mall. No showers here. The cops were called when a naked black man slept on a bare mattress in the front display window. They also whored out their daughter and let the rest of the kids run around the parking lot dinging up customers cars and such. Pretty sure they tried breaking into some of the stores around here, but that's more co-incidental.

One of them rear ended a tractor trailer while driving a Viper doing 160+. When the cops investigated, a dozen of `em would claim the car was theirs, and then not theirs, depending on if they had the insurance money to gain, or charges to face.
 
2012-04-23 03:05:57 PM
It still seems odd that the school was upset that the girl's skirt was too long.

It could have gone in the other direction:

i54.tinypic.com
 
2012-04-23 03:23:40 PM

Grables'Daughter: It still seems odd that the school was upset that the girl's skirt was too long.

It could should have gone in the other direction:

[i54.tinypic.com image 550x366]


FTFY
 
2012-04-23 04:00:05 PM

Diogenes: Thanks for that clarification (serious, I wasn't quite sure where you were going). However, my argument to that would be that what you described is not diversity. Or, at least, not diversity done correctly. Diversity implies sharing and partnership.


That definition is going to patently fail when it comes to major belief systems. You can achieve diversity of some beliefs, but achieving diversity of religion among true believers is fairly difficult. When you have people who are dead set that their fairy tale is actual physical truth it makes the compromise that is necessary for sharing and partnership kind of difficult.
 
2012-04-23 04:23:43 PM
upload.wikimedia.org

muesli, not muslim but close enough..
 
2012-04-23 04:25:46 PM

lilplatinum: Diogenes: Thanks for that clarification (serious, I wasn't quite sure where you were going). However, my argument to that would be that what you described is not diversity. Or, at least, not diversity done correctly. Diversity implies sharing and partnership.

That definition is going to patently fail when it comes to major belief systems. You can achieve diversity of some beliefs, but achieving diversity of religion among true believers is fairly difficult. When you have people who are dead set that their fairy tale is actual physical truth it makes the compromise that is necessary for sharing and partnership kind of difficult.


I think alot of it peoples' pre-existing prejudices being focused through the lens of religion. Be it tribalism, territorialism, greed, fear or just plain intolerance.
 
2012-04-23 04:26:02 PM

Quigs: I like that term; Religious Right. It implications are many, and usually lets me know that the person using it is a goober. The fact that the poster also implies that he's superior to everyone in the Religious Right kind of compounds the feeling that he's a goober.

However, I'm a Biblical Christian, and think everyone should live their own lives as they please, as long as it doesn't screw with anyone else's freedom.



I like that term "Biblical Christian." Its implications are many, and usually lets me know that the person using it is a goober. The fact that the poster also implies that he's superior to everyone not a "Biblical Christian" kind of compounds the feeling that he's a goober.

And by the way, "Religious Right" is the term we use when we're trying to be nice (or at least fair). It's the LEAST pejorative term I know. I'm happy to fall back on "Dominionist" or "fundamentalist" if those work for you better.

/"Unbiblical" Christian
//All snark aside, I have no clue why you find "Religious Right" objectionable
 
2012-04-23 04:34:18 PM

Quigs: Mock26: Quigs: Telling gypsys, Roma, whatever they can't wear a certain type of clothing is goofy, same as saying Muslims can't be all masked up, or telling Atheists they can't be snooty and self-righteous.

Roma, however, are scum of the earth. I would much rather deal with the most rabid hardcore muslim than a farking gypsy any day of the week.

The ones I've met... yeah. Had a family move into the mall where I work. They moved into the mall. No showers here. The cops were called when a naked black man slept on a bare mattress in the front display window. They also whored out their daughter and let the rest of the kids run around the parking lot dinging up customers cars and such. Pretty sure they tried breaking into some of the stores around here, but that's more co-incidental.

One of them rear ended a tractor trailer while driving a Viper doing 160+. When the cops investigated, a dozen of `em would claim the car was theirs, and then not theirs, depending on if they had the insurance money to gain, or charges to face.


A friend's mom in New York was hit by one of their scams. They started painting her house and after slapping paint on about half of one side they hit her with a bill, saying she had signed a contract and then trying to force her into paying for them to paint the rest of the house to "fix" the huge blemish they created. She went back inside, grabbed her shotgun, and held them at gun point until the police showed up. The police arrested them and she got to keep the paint. She then paid a neighbor kid to paint her house (she had been wanting to paint it anyway!). The farking scum then tried to intimidate her by constantly driving by her house and following her when she left. They even went so far as to vandalize her mail box. Fortunately by that time her sun had set up video cameras and caught two of them getting out of their car with a baseball bat and smashing her mail box. That is when the feds got involved! Everything stopped after that.

I used to live in Finland and used to deal with them there. One time I was out walking the dog (Gustav, a Finnish Spitz) and passed by a group of gypsies, one of whom had a chihuahua. The woman with the chihuahua all but threw her little rat in front of my dog, causing my dog to bark. She then comes running over and tries to act like my dog had attacked her dog and started demanding money. I just turned by back on them and started to walk away. Suddenly one of her sons(?) put his hand on my shoulder to stop me he got about 45 pounds of pissed off dog literally in his face. Gustav was an extremely protective dog! He turned, jumped, and bit him in the face! As he reeled back bleeding the cops showed up and promptly arrested him and the woman. Apparently it was not the first time they had tried this scam. I got reprimanded and fined for not restraining my dog. The fine was for 1 Finnish Mark! (About 25 cents at that time.) And the cop let me pay him directly. I was not completely sure, but I think that he was enjoying himself at arresting the gypsies.
 
2012-04-23 04:44:13 PM

Hoopy Frood: capt.hollister: Bad translation is bad.

In French "Provocante" can mean provocative or provoking. They meant the latter, but used the former.

In English, provocative means provoking.


No, capt.hollister is correct. In currant (stupidly euphemistic) usage, "provocative" implies that the skirt was sexy, that it provokes lust in those who look upon its wearer. Yes, "provocative" used to have a more general meaning than that (that it provoked ANY emotion), and while it is POSSIBLE to be used that way, that's not how it's used most of the time anymore. A better translation would be "inflammatory."

Speaking of bad translations from French, is there any truth to the old urban legend of the speech a French president gave in which "Nous demandons" was mistranslated into "We demand"? Supposedly there was some big brouhaha with Americans getting mad that the French were "demanding" something which they were, in fact, merely asking for.
 
2012-04-23 04:48:01 PM

ciberido: In currant (stupidly euphemistic) usage, "provocative" implies that the skirt was sexy, that it provokes lust in those who look upon its wearer.


I mean "current (stupidly euphemistic) usage," of course. I was not speaking of seedless raisins.
 
2012-04-23 05:04:14 PM

Hoopy Frood: capt.hollister: Bad translation is bad.

In French "Provocante" can mean provocative or provoking. They meant the latter, but used the former.

In English, provocative means provoking.


My dictionary gives the following definitions:
provoking: causing or tending to cause anger or resentment
provocative:exciting sexual desire
 
2012-04-23 05:16:10 PM

ciberido: Hoopy Frood: capt.hollister: Bad translation is bad.

In French "Provocante" can mean provocative or provoking. They meant the latter, but used the former.

In English, provocative means provoking.

No, capt.hollister is correct. In currant (stupidly euphemistic) usage, "provocative" implies that the skirt was sexy, that it provokes lust in those who look upon its wearer. Yes, "provocative" used to have a more general meaning than that (that it provoked ANY emotion), and while it is POSSIBLE to be used that way, that's not how it's used most of the time anymore. A better translation would be "inflammatory."

Speaking of bad translations from French, is there any truth to the old urban legend of the speech a French president gave in which "Nous demandons" was mistranslated into "We demand"? Supposedly there was some big brouhaha with Americans getting mad that the French were "demanding" something which they were, in fact, merely asking for.


I have never heard of that particular incident, but I have no trouble believing that it could have happened. This problem with "faux amis" (ie false friends: words that sound the same in two languages, but don't have the same meaning) is a major pitfall when texts are translated by amateur translaters.
 
2012-04-23 05:24:00 PM
ciberido

And by the way, "Religious Right" is the term we use when we're trying to be nice (or at least fair). It's the LEAST pejorative term I know. I'm happy to fall back on "Dominionist" or "fundamentalist" if those work for you better.

/"Unbiblical" Christian
//All snark aside, I have no clue why you find "Religious Right" objectionable


It's a broad label that applies to few people, though it's applied to millions in an attempt to pigeonhole varied beliefs and cultures. My gay jew friend who keeps his house Kosher and believes in gun ownership would fit the definition of the "Religious Right", though it'd probably derail any argument trying to portray folks with faith as a bunch of stuffy assholes who try to rule your life.

I like my faith. I don't push it on others. I can take a good ribbing as well as give one out, but the moment people start degrading faith like it's unintelligent or backwards, Either because they lack faith of their own, or it's not their own brand of faith, I take exception. Comparing me with Sarah Palin and the Westboro Baptists is pretty damned degrading.

Saw a goober friend of mine post something on facebook about how he'll stop persecuting religion as soon as the religious right stops persecuting women, gays, immigrants, etc. Like... somehow it's become okay to persecute people because you saw some politician act like an asshole.

Oh well. Hope this clears things up for you.
 
2012-04-23 06:30:11 PM

capt.hollister: This problem with "faux amis" (ie false friends: words that sound the same in two languages, but don't have the same meaning) is a major pitfall when texts are translated by amateur translaters.


Hell, it doesn't even need to be translated.

There's a story (IIRC, it's related in Winston Churchill's memoirs) about the Brits and the Yanks meeting to discuss strategy during WWII.

It turns out that the verb table on the Left and Right sides of the pond mean completely different things. On the left side, Yanks use it to suspend discussion of a particular topic. On the right side, Brits use it to introduce discussion of a particular topic (i.e., to bring the subject onto the table, which as a Yank makes a lot more sense to me than our meaning).

Some particular issue came up. The Brits were insistent that the subject be tabled immediately, because it was important. The Yanks were insistent that the subject not be tabled, because it was important! Some "vigorous discussion" ensued, and according to [my memory of] Churchill, the room was nearing fistfights before somebody happened to restate one of the opinions using some other verb than "table". There followed several minutes of "but that's what WE said!" and "wait, what?", before some rather hesitant and amused "what exactly does this word mean to YOU?" explanations.
 
2012-04-24 12:16:43 AM

Diogenes: I think alot of it peoples' pre-existing prejudices being focused through the lens of religion. Be it tribalism, territorialism, greed, fear or just plain intolerance.


Well yeah, human nature is not equipped to deal with diversity which is why it generally tends to cause strife. But I would say religion is even worse than other things because it provides an overarching mystical justification for farking over people who think differently than you, and if you are a true believer gives you enough psycopathy to think that this life doesn't matter because your incoporeal self is immortal.

Given the choice between diversity with those people ore more uniformity with rational human beings, i'll take the later. While we can't justly limit what people believe, we can certainly make the aspects of public life free of this bullshiat, no problem with what the cheese eating surrender monkeys are doing here.
 
2012-04-24 01:11:44 AM

Quigs: ciberido

And by the way, "Religious Right" is the term we use when we're trying to be nice (or at least fair). It's the LEAST pejorative term I know. I'm happy to fall back on "Dominionist" or "fundamentalist" if those work for you better.

/"Unbiblical" Christian
//All snark aside, I have no clue why you find "Religious Right" objectionable

It's a broad label that applies to few people, though it's applied to millions in an attempt to pigeonhole varied beliefs and cultures. My gay jew friend who keeps his house Kosher and believes in gun ownership would fit the definition of the "Religious Right", though it'd probably derail any argument trying to portray folks with faith as a bunch of stuffy assholes who try to rule your life.

I like my faith. I don't push it on others. I can take a good ribbing as well as give one out, but the moment people start degrading faith like it's unintelligent or backwards, Either because they lack faith of their own, or it's not their own brand of faith, I take exception. Comparing me with Sarah Palin and the Westboro Baptists is pretty damned degrading.

Saw a goober friend of mine post something on facebook about how he'll stop persecuting religion as soon as the religious right stops persecuting women, gays, immigrants, etc. Like... somehow it's become okay to persecute people because you saw some politician act like an asshole.

Oh well. Hope this clears things up for you.


www.thelostogle.comsandbox.yoyogames.com
 
2012-04-24 11:51:56 AM
A long skirt doesn't automatically disqualify a girl from hotness.
farm6.staticflickr.com
 
2012-04-24 01:33:27 PM

capt.hollister: Hoopy Frood: capt.hollister: Bad translation is bad.

In French "Provocante" can mean provocative or provoking. They meant the latter, but used the former.

In English, provocative means provoking.

My dictionary gives the following definitions:
provoking: causing or tending to cause anger or resentment
provocative:exciting sexual desire


Your dictionary is insufficient on both words. They're based on the same root word, "provoke". It's why "sexually provocative" isn't redundant, but "sexually sensuous" is. If you wear a Klan outfit in a black neighborhood, you're acting in a provocative manner. You can attend a provocative lecture about something that interests you and ask a provocative question. A silly joke told to a sulking four-year-old can provoke a smile.
 
2012-04-25 01:13:39 AM
ciberido: All snark aside, I have no clue why you find "Religious Right" objectionable

Quigs: It's a broad label that applies to few people, though it's applied to millions in an attempt to pigeonhole varied beliefs and cultures. My gay jew friend who keeps his house Kosher and believes in gun ownership would fit the definition of the "Religious Right", though it'd probably derail any argument trying to portray folks with faith as a bunch of stuffy assholes who try to rule your life.


It's applied to millions because it applies to millions. The Christian right makes up roughly 15% of the population of the USA. That makes for roughly 50 million people (if we're talking only about the USA) by my count.

I'm sorry if you don't like it (not being sarcastic here), but we have to call you SOMETHING. If you don't like "Religious Right," then you need to give me some alternative term I can use to describe someone who is both politically conservative and religious. "Conservative Christian" works for me since, your example notwithstanding, for practical purposes "Religious" is a euphemism for "Christian" in this context, much like "faith-based." When people use the term "Religious Right" with regards to the USA, they aren't thinking about Jews or Buddhists.

I hear the same complaint from the homophobes a lot. They don't like "homophobe" or "homophobia" because, the claim goes, it has nothing to do with fear. Well, maybe it does and maybe it doesn't, but again, we've got to call you something, so if you don't like it, start thinking up a term you like better.

But I have to tell you, "Biblical Christian" is a pretty damn offensive and presumptive term, so no, you don't get to use that freely.


Quigs: Saw a goober friend of mine post something on facebook about how he'll stop persecuting religion as soon as the religious right stops persecuting women, gays, immigrants, etc. Like... somehow it's become okay to persecute people because you saw some politician act like an asshole.


So you're equating someone making nasty comments on Facebook with being beaten to death? The people who persecute gays KILL them. The people who "persecute" Christians.... say unkind things about them.
 
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