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(Chaos Computer Club)   Not News: Girl sent home from school for wearing "provocative" clothing. Fark: Her skirt was too long   (thelocal.fr) divider line 84
    More: Strange, Le Parisien, religious values, middle schools, veils  
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15437 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Apr 2012 at 11:14 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-23 09:05:32 AM  
wat
 
2012-04-23 09:18:57 AM  
Huzzah France!

/I really like the way they think.
 
2012-04-23 09:20:04 AM  
What's the world coming to? I can clearly see her ankles and I can almost
catch a glimpse of her bussle.

www.thelocal.fr

/Oh, it's the French, sorry.
 
2012-04-23 09:21:43 AM  
In 2004, a ban on religious symbols in schools came into effect, meaning Muslims girls were no longer allowed to wear a veil in class.

Shakespeare's Monkey: What's the world coming to? I can clearly see her ankles and I can almost
catch a glimpse of her bussle.

[www.thelocal.fr image 468x224]

/Oh, it's the French, sorry.


"All for Silas, all for Silas ..."
 
2012-04-23 09:22:29 AM  
Oh right, but I try advocating for shorter skirts on schoolgirls and suddenly my house has a red dot over it.
 
2012-04-23 09:26:29 AM  
In 2004, a ban on religious symbols in schools came into effect, meaning Muslims girls were no longer allowed to wear a veil in class.

Or a cross or a Star of David. Ridiculous.

Where are the famed French values of liberté and égalité? This is more like a parent who says if you can't play nice together with your toys they're going to take them all away. It's a perversion of equal rights. Everyone is equal because the state took all their differences away.
 
2012-04-23 10:30:04 AM  

Diogenes: In 2004, a ban on religious symbols in schools came into effect, meaning Muslims girls were no longer allowed to wear a veil in class.

Or a cross or a Star of David. Ridiculous.

Where are the famed French values of liberté and égalité? This is more like a parent who says if you can't play nice together with your toys they're going to take them all away. It's a perversion of equal rights. Everyone is equal because the state took all their differences away.


Another of France's values is secularity. They don't like religion in public.
 
2012-04-23 10:43:51 AM  

Sybarite: Oh right, but I try advocating for shorter skirts on schoolgirls and suddenly my house has a red dot over it.


Exactly my thoughts.
 
2012-04-23 10:50:04 AM  

ArkAngel: Diogenes: In 2004, a ban on religious symbols in schools came into effect, meaning Muslims girls were no longer allowed to wear a veil in class.

Or a cross or a Star of David. Ridiculous.

Where are the famed French values of liberté and égalité? This is more like a parent who says if you can't play nice together with your toys they're going to take them all away. It's a perversion of equal rights. Everyone is equal because the state took all their differences away.

Another of France's values is secularity. They don't like religion in public.


I am certainly not a religious person. But I think my perspective as a gay person applies here. I don't like the idea of forcing religious into the closet any more than I do homosexuals.

I believe in the Vulcan credo (uh oh my geek is showing): Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations
 
2012-04-23 11:07:34 AM  

Diogenes: ArkAngel: Diogenes: In 2004, a ban on religious symbols in schools came into effect, meaning Muslims girls were no longer allowed to wear a veil in class.

Or a cross or a Star of David. Ridiculous.

Where are the famed French values of liberté and égalité? This is more like a parent who says if you can't play nice together with your toys they're going to take them all away. It's a perversion of equal rights. Everyone is equal because the state took all their differences away.

Another of France's values is secularity. They don't like religion in public.

I am certainly not a religious person. But I think my perspective as a gay person applies here. I don't like the idea of forcing religious into the closet any more than I do homosexuals.

I believe in the Vulcan credo (uh oh my geek is showing): Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations


Nor do I, but that's how France is.
 
2012-04-23 11:16:15 AM  

ArkAngel: Diogenes: ArkAngel: Diogenes: In 2004, a ban on religious symbols in schools came into effect, meaning Muslims girls were no longer allowed to wear a veil in class.

Or a cross or a Star of David. Ridiculous.

Where are the famed French values of liberté and égalité? This is more like a parent who says if you can't play nice together with your toys they're going to take them all away. It's a perversion of equal rights. Everyone is equal because the state took all their differences away.

Another of France's values is secularity. They don't like religion in public.

I am certainly not a religious person. But I think my perspective as a gay person applies here. I don't like the idea of forcing religious into the closet any more than I do homosexuals.

I believe in the Vulcan credo (uh oh my geek is showing): Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations

Nor do I, but that's how France is.


Do they still have that place in France? You know the one I'm talking about.
 
2012-04-23 11:18:22 AM  

Diogenes: I believe in the Vulcan credo (uh oh my geek is showing): Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations


Yeah, lets just look to the middle east to see how great religious diversity is.
 
2012-04-23 11:18:55 AM  

Diogenes: ArkAngel: Diogenes: In 2004, a ban on religious symbols in schools came into effect, meaning Muslims girls were no longer allowed to wear a veil in class.

Or a cross or a Star of David. Ridiculous.

Where are the famed French values of liberté and égalité? This is more like a parent who says if you can't play nice together with your toys they're going to take them all away. It's a perversion of equal rights. Everyone is equal because the state took all their differences away.

Another of France's values is secularity. They don't like religion in public.

I am certainly not a religious person. But I think my perspective as a gay person applies here. I don't like the idea of forcing religious into the closet any more than I do homosexuals.

I believe in the Vulcan credo (uh oh my geek is showing): Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations


As a heterosexual atheist I agree. Adhering to religious beliefs is not the same as proselytizing, imo. While the schools shouldn't be promoting that stuff, banning it entirely is the other extreme.

I doubt anyone in the fark religious right will care since it's muslims, though.
 
2012-04-23 11:21:30 AM  

Diogenes: In 2004, a ban on religious symbols in schools came into effect, meaning Muslims girls were no longer allowed to wear a veil in class.

Or a cross or a Star of David. Ridiculous.

Where are the famed French values of liberté and égalité? This is more like a parent who says if you can't play nice together with your toys they're going to take them all away. It's a perversion of equal rights. Everyone is equal because the state took all their differences away.


France has a legal principal that divides the world into two "spheres" public and private. Walking down the street is your own private business "private sphere" and you can wear damned near anything you please. In a public school funded by the State you're in the public sphere and the government can place restrictions on things like freedom of speech. It's really a pretty rational system but it confuses Americans because *gasp* the law is different in France than it is in the USA.
 
2012-04-23 11:21:54 AM  

StaleCoffee: Diogenes: ArkAngel: Diogenes: In 2004, a ban on religious symbols in schools came into effect, meaning Muslims girls were no longer allowed to wear a veil in class.

Or a cross or a Star of David. Ridiculous.

Where are the famed French values of liberté and égalité? This is more like a parent who says if you can't play nice together with your toys they're going to take them all away. It's a perversion of equal rights. Everyone is equal because the state took all their differences away.

Another of France's values is secularity. They don't like religion in public.

I am certainly not a religious person. But I think my perspective as a gay person applies here. I don't like the idea of forcing religious into the closet any more than I do homosexuals.

I believe in the Vulcan credo (uh oh my geek is showing): Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations

As a heterosexual atheist I agree. Adhering to religious beliefs is not the same as proselytizing, imo. While the schools shouldn't be promoting that stuff, banning it entirely is the other extreme.

I doubt anyone in the fark religious right will care since it's muslims, though.


I care. I didn't support France when it did that, though I can see why they did.
 
2012-04-23 11:22:34 AM  
I wonder if the same people who are "grossed out" by gays kissing in public fully support wearing crosses in public...
 
2012-04-23 11:23:40 AM  
Diogenes:
Where are the famed French values of liberté and égalité?

They never really existed except as a catch phrase.
 
2012-04-23 11:24:56 AM  
According to the school, she was not sent home. They only "commented" on it. I'm not sure what that means, but it sort of sounds like they asked her about the skirt, she got offended, and left on her own. I don't have a clue what they would comment on though.
 
2012-04-23 11:28:26 AM  
Can we nuke the world now? Please? These human animals are too farking dumb to live.
 
2012-04-23 11:30:10 AM  

Slaves2Darkness: Can we nuke the world now? Please? These human animals are too farking dumb to live.


The ones who read thelocal.de/.fr/etc. for any sort of news reporting?
 
2012-04-23 11:30:29 AM  

StaleCoffee: I doubt anyone in the fark religious right will care since it's muslims, though.


And there's the problem. The "no religious clothing at school" thing that they recently passed is, in fact, "no being muslim at school." Because religious freedom is for suckers, or something.
 
2012-04-23 11:31:08 AM  
We could turn this into a short skirt thread.

Really. We could.
 
2012-04-23 11:32:10 AM  

ArkAngel: Another of France's values is secularity. They don't like muslimreligion in public.

 
2012-04-23 11:33:25 AM  

h0tsauce: StaleCoffee: I doubt anyone in the fark religious right will care since it's muslims, though.

And there's the problem. The "no religious clothing at school" thing that they recently passed is, in fact, "no being muslim at school." Because religious freedom is for suckers, or something.


Actually, it's the other way around - they're so in favor of religious freedom that they don't want any implication that the state is endorsing a religion. Think of it as the Establishment Clause taken to extremes, rather than the situation we have here in the U.S., where the Free Exercise Clause is taken to extremes.
 
2012-04-23 11:34:12 AM  

Voiceofreason01: France has a legal principal that divides the world into two "spheres" public and private. Walking down the street is your own private business "private sphere" and you can wear damned near anything you please. In a public school funded by the State you're in the public sphere and the government can place restrictions on things like freedom of speech. It's really a pretty rational system but it confuses Americans because *gasp* the law is different in France than it is in the USA.


Hey, just because I don't like it doesn't mean I don't get it. I have a very real philosophical difference of opinion. Artificial equality is artificial.

And the separation you speak of is killing their current presidential race. In their efforts to enforce equal time to the second, the public broadcasting venues (which is the only way they're allowed to campaign on TV and radio), those venues are just declining to host them at all.

From what I understand, one candidate's campaign is going door-to-door, which is unheard of in France. And it's working.
 
2012-04-23 11:35:05 AM  

lilplatinum: Diogenes: I believe in the Vulcan credo (uh oh my geek is showing): Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations

Yeah, lets just look to the middle east to see how great religious diversity is.


What is this I don't even.....
 
2012-04-23 11:35:44 AM  
Skirt too long? We can fix that. Oh my, yes we can fix that...

/fap
 
2012-04-23 11:36:25 AM  
The kilt, now that's a provocate piece of clothing*. Especially on a True Scotsman.

Not that I've ever peeked myself. I'm just saying. Idle curiosity is the Devil's workshop.

*A long dress, not so much.

When I was at school, the rural Pentecostals often dressed like Laura Ingalls. So did some of the Baptists for that matter. Home made frilly dresses from patterns that were never popular, even in the days of Laura Ingalls, I presume. Sort of 1870s meets 1970s and 1880s meets 1980s, if you can imagine that. Thus I am somewhat enurred to Muslims girls wearing head-scarves--Good Christian Ladies and conservative Jews cover their heads and have roughly the same fashion-sense as the more moderate Muslims. Many of them also seem to believe that God loves a fat and cheerful Christian (a more jolly bunch of women is hard to find than Cheerful Christians, who are as good-natured as Church Ladies are sour-pussed).

I don't really mind this type of religious garb, and crucifixes don't do any harm unless they're right in your face. IT BURNS! IT BURNS! GET IT OFF OF ME! THE NICKEL BURNS! Sorry. A lot of people have allergies and you never know what is in cheap costume jewelry. Stick with gold and silver, ladies and Christians!

The French are very dirigiste and bureaucratic about these things. Perhaps too much so. It makes sense to me to forbid somebody from giving their children a name that will destroy their lives, but I don't really care about how other people dress as long as they're not audibly commenting or snickering on how other people dress. The people who do are generally the worst dressed people in the street, let alone the room.

Let 'em wear their headscarves and form-covering clothing. If they want to vote they can remove their scarves for a second without sin. Most of the people who staff polling stations are gay or old women any way. Nobody else does a damn thing in the way of charity or public service except the Jews and some minorities. If it weren't for homosexuals, old ladies and Jews, poor people wouldn't get Christmas dinner.

I'm just saying.

These "Family" bastards feather their own nests and leave you to feather yours in accordance with the bourgeois precept "Every man for himself and Devil take the hindmost." Léon Blum can tell you all about that. He was a reactionary Roman Catholic. Some of the funniest people I know are reac RC. They have a delicious and acute sense of irony which is honed by believing six impossible things before morning Mass every day.

I'm just saying.

That's three "I'm just sayings". I'm done. What I tell you three times is true.
 
2012-04-23 11:36:53 AM  

Spreadhead: We could turn this into a short skirt thread.

Really. We could.


Nice try. First warm school day this year. The mini-skirts and short-shorts were out in force. Sadly, cold and rainy the rest of the week.
 
2012-04-23 11:39:04 AM  
I am an orthodox clotheatarian... my religion believes that all clothes are made by God... they are his gift to us... his chosen people. Anyone who wears clothes is showing support for my 'religion'.

There France... work with that one...
 
2012-04-23 11:39:23 AM  

Fano: ArkAngel: Diogenes: ArkAngel: Diogenes: In 2004, a ban on religious symbols in schools came into effect, meaning Muslims girls were no longer allowed to wear a veil in class.

Or a cross or a Star of David. Ridiculous.

Where are the famed French values of liberté and égalité? This is more like a parent who says if you can't play nice together with your toys they're going to take them all away. It's a perversion of equal rights. Everyone is equal because the state took all their differences away.

Another of France's values is secularity. They don't like religion in public.

I am certainly not a religious person. But I think my perspective as a gay person applies here. I don't like the idea of forcing religious into the closet any more than I do homosexuals.

I believe in the Vulcan credo (uh oh my geek is showing): Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations

Nor do I, but that's how France is.

Do they still have that place in France? You know the one I'm talking about.


Still haven't fixed the wall.
 
2012-04-23 11:41:45 AM  
Inured, not ennured. My mistake.

(Sings) My miiiiiiiiistaaaaaake!

--Monty Python, "Mr. Neutron Sketch." One of my favourites.
 
2012-04-23 11:42:48 AM  

StaleCoffee: Diogenes: ArkAngel: Diogenes: In 2004, a ban on religious symbols in schools came into effect, meaning Muslims girls were no longer allowed to wear a veil in class.

Or a cross or a Star of David. Ridiculous.

Where are the famed French values of liberté and égalité? This is more like a parent who says if you can't play nice together with your toys they're going to take them all away. It's a perversion of equal rights. Everyone is equal because the state took all their differences away.

Another of France's values is secularity. They don't like religion in public.

I am certainly not a religious person. But I think my perspective as a gay person applies here. I don't like the idea of forcing religious into the closet any more than I do homosexuals.

I believe in the Vulcan credo (uh oh my geek is showing): Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations

As a heterosexual atheist I agree. Adhering to religious beliefs is not the same as proselytizing, imo. While the schools shouldn't be promoting that stuff, banning it entirely is the other extreme.

I doubt anyone in the fark religious right will care since it's muslims, though.


I like that term; Religious Right. It implications are many, and usually lets me know that the person using it is a goober. The fact that the poster also implies that he's superior to everyone in the Religious Right kind of compounds the feeling that he's a goober.

However, I'm a Biblical Christian, and think everyone should live their own lives as they please, as long as it doesn't screw with anyone else's freedom. Telling gypsys, Roma, whatever they can't wear a certain type of clothing is goofy, same as saying Muslims can't be all masked up, or telling Atheists they can't be snooty and self-righteous. Plenty of folks are only getting one pass at this, let them make it one hell of a pass.
 
2012-04-23 11:45:48 AM  
No pictures of what a shorter schoolgirl skirt might look like?
 
2012-04-23 11:50:05 AM  

Quigs: StaleCoffee: Diogenes: ArkAngel: Diogenes: In 2004, a ban on religious symbols in schools came into effect, meaning Muslims girls were no longer allowed to wear a veil in class.

Or a cross or a Star of David. Ridiculous.

Where are the famed French values of liberté and égalité? This is more like a parent who says if you can't play nice together with your toys they're going to take them all away. It's a perversion of equal rights. Everyone is equal because the state took all their differences away.

Another of France's values is secularity. They don't like religion in public.

I am certainly not a religious person. But I think my perspective as a gay person applies here. I don't like the idea of forcing religious into the closet any more than I do homosexuals.

I believe in the Vulcan credo (uh oh my geek is showing): Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations

As a heterosexual atheist I agree. Adhering to religious beliefs is not the same as proselytizing, imo. While the schools shouldn't be promoting that stuff, banning it entirely is the other extreme.

I doubt anyone in the fark religious right will care since it's muslims, though.

I like that term; Religious Right. It implications are many, and usually lets me know that the person using it is a goober. The fact that the poster also implies that he's superior to everyone in the Religious Right kind of compounds the feeling that he's a goober.

However, I'm a Biblical Christian, and think everyone should live their own lives as they please, as long as it doesn't screw with anyone else's freedom. Telling gypsys, Roma, whatever they can't wear a certain type of clothing is goofy, same as saying Muslims can't be all masked up, or telling Atheists they can't be snooty and self-righteous. Plenty of folks are only getting one pass at this, let them make it one hell of a pass.


What a wonderfully snooty and self-righteous way of using this post as a way to delivery what you believe as a biblical christian. It warms the black cockles of my stony, dead heart to see just how much you do care after all.
 
2012-04-23 11:50:51 AM  

Diogenes: I have a very real philosophical difference of opinion. Artificial equality is artificial.


And I think it's done a lot to alienate France's already frustrated and disinfranchized immigrant population.

/ignoring racism doesn't make it go away
 
2012-04-23 11:53:10 AM  

brantgoose: Inured, not ennured. My mistake.

(Sings) My miiiiiiiiistaaaaaake!

--Monty Python, "Mr. Neutron Sketch." One of my favourites.


Ennured, from Inured/Ennui: Too tough to care.
 
2012-04-23 11:54:27 AM  

Voiceofreason01: Diogenes: I have a very real philosophical difference of opinion. Artificial equality is artificial.

And I think it's done a lot to alienate France's already frustrated and disinfranchized immigrant population.

/ignoring racism doesn't make it go away


LOL. Yeah, pretty much. But I chose not to open that particular can of worms and went for the more general philosophical approach. ;-)
 
2012-04-23 11:59:22 AM  

Maechyll: Skirt too long? We can fix that. Oh my, yes we can fix that...

/fap


Bonjour. S'il vous plaît ayez un siège là-bas.
 
2012-04-23 12:00:32 PM  
Also:
[chrishansenwithfrenchymustache.jpg]
 
2012-04-23 12:05:07 PM  

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: Maechyll: Skirt too long? We can fix that. Oh my, yes we can fix that...

/fap

Bonjour. S'il vous plaît ayez un siège là-bas.



LOLwut
 
2012-04-23 12:18:57 PM  

Theaetetus: Actually, it's the other way around - they're so in favor of religious freedom that they don't want any implication that the state is endorsing a religion. Think of it as the Establishment Clause taken to extremes, rather than the situation we have here in the U.S., where the Free Exercise Clause is taken to extremes.


That's how it was marketed, it's not what the rising French Right was going for though.
 
2012-04-23 12:19:11 PM  
Provocative doesn't have to be sexy. It means "to provoke"

still stupid though.
 
2012-04-23 12:21:33 PM  

Quigs: Telling gypsys, Roma, whatever they can't wear a certain type of clothing is goofy, same as saying Muslims can't be all masked up, or telling Atheists they can't be snooty and self-righteous


You understand us, you really do. I promised I wouldn't...

i.imgur.com
 
2012-04-23 12:28:16 PM  

Diogenes: In 2004, a ban on religious symbols in schools came into effect, meaning Muslims girls were no longer allowed to wear a veil in class.

Or a cross or a Star of David. Ridiculous.

Where are the famed French values of liberté and égalité? This is more like a parent who says if you can't play nice together with your toys they're going to take them all away. It's a perversion of equal rights. Everyone is equal because the state took all their differences away.


It is ironic that the religious symbol ban was put in place directly in line with those values. The reasoning being that everyone is free to practice whatever religion they wish, but the public commons was a secular area to ensure no one was oppressed. France does not even track religious belief in any way as a matter of law, so it is impossible to know how many people this effects.

They want people to be French first and foremost.
 
2012-04-23 12:35:33 PM  
So, the school has a dress code spelling out what the students can and/or cannot wear.

The student violated that dress code.

But because she was dressed more conservatively, when the expected norm is to break the dress code by dressing sexy, we are outraged.

Do I have this right?
 
2012-04-23 12:36:03 PM  
France has always been known for being a xenophobic, hedonistic state filled with complaining wankers who roll over at the first bang.

Not a surprise.
 
2012-04-23 12:36:23 PM  
Can I haz short skirt thread, please?
 
2012-04-23 12:37:48 PM  

Grables'Daughter: Do I have this right?


No, this is actually just one of the many many many exclusionary and xenophobic measures that the French use against muslims and other immigrants.
 
2012-04-23 12:39:26 PM  
If her name had been Jeanne Saint-Claire, blue eyes blond hair and fair skin, and the right taste in cheese, they would not have said a single word about it.


But her name is Khadija, brown eyes dark hair and darker skin, and she prefers hummus, so she can either become properly French or get the fark out of France.
 
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