Some things i'll gladly fault him for, but others, like gitmo, I can't. He tried to close it, but congress is a bunch of pansies, and refused to let them be transferred anywhere.

FloydA: Oh is it "he's exactly the same as Bush" day again already?

Hurts, don't it?

So, I can think of at least two scenarios:

1) Senator Obama found out a whole bunch of secret information he needs to make decisions with, that under no circumstances can be explained to the public (I'm not saying it's aliens...)

or

2) President Obama discovered when the power was in his hands, the idea of power suddenly became much more appealing.

Wasn't there a political cartoon about Obama/Frodo and the One Ring? Where's a finger-biting Gollum when you need one?

And because the Republican party has gone completely insane and wants even stronger surveillance and curtailment of civil liberties, there'll be no one challenging Obama on this during the general election.

Barack Obama once ate the Constitution in Kenya.

palelizard: So, I can think of at least two scenarios:

1) Senator Obama found out a whole bunch of secret information he needs to make decisions with, that under no circumstances can be explained to the public (I'm not saying it's aliens...)

or

2) President Obama discovered when the power was in his hands, the idea of power suddenly became much more appealing.

Wasn't there a political cartoon about Obama/Frodo and the One Ring? Where's a finger-biting Gollum when you need one?

lolwut?

The president uses executive powers to direct the executive branch? This is an outrage!

National Security/Privacy issues are my biggest complaint about Obama. However at the moment there really isn't any alternative. Romney will be as bad and most likely worst. Third party presidential candidates are a waste. The only real option is to support people who oppose those things in Congress, like the Progressive Caucus and some of the otherwise nutty libertarians, and work for future reform.

glaurunge: And because the Republican party has gone completely insane and wants even stronger surveillance and curtailment of civil liberties, there'll be no one challenging Obama on this during the general election.

Yes.

Which is sad really.

Emperor Obama is showing General Bush a thing or two.

There are a number of things I'm not happy with President Obama on, erosion of rights, healthcare reform thats not single payer and the wall street knob slobbin are top of the list.

But I like a lot of what he's done and he was given an economy completely farked by bush and the republicans so I'm willing to give him a second term to sort it out.

Plus the alternative is Rmoney.

'nuff said

What a spineless and ineffective iron-fisted dictator he is.

cman: RexTalionis: cman: People can remember as far back as 2001. That damned Obama time machine makes our life a living hell

Didn't you bid this thread farewell to ensure thoughtful debate and civil discourse?

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 400x230]

"I lied"

+1

Forgot_my_password_again: There are a number of things I'm not happy with President Obama on, erosion of rights, healthcare reform thats not single payer and the wall street knob slobbin are top of the list.

But I like a lot of what he's done and he was given an economy completely farked by bush and the republicans so I'm willing to give him a second term to sort it out.

Plus the alternative is Rmoney.

'nuff said


Yes, vote Kang. Kodos is far worse.
I am now wiser.

Cletus C.: Yes, vote Kang. Kodos is far worse.

kodos character is reason to vote for kang.

that and the miniature america flags

Can we just accept that power corrupts and that's why there are [supposed to be] checks and balances? Stop thinking "your glorious leader" is infallible you insipid twerps.

/that goes for left and right

It's not like he abused executive power to start a war without congress's concent, but yes the increasing abouse by administrations is worrisome. Of course he could have allowed congress to shut down the federal governement instead of just telling them fark you, since you didn't pass a budget I'll just circumvent you.

ManateeGag: DirtyDeadGhostofEbenezerCooke: Senator Barack Obama railed about President Bush's abuses of power would say anyting to get elected. President Barack Obama has seen the light will say anything to get re-elected..

Politicians way what you want to hear to get elected? imagine that.

Indeed. Still, at least Obama didn't claim to represent any sort of change.

RexTalionis: Pretty much every president (well, every major president, because there were plenty of mediocre and obscure caretaker presidents out there) had a vested interest in expanding the power of the Executive Branch, no matter how they campaigned on the issue prior to their election. This has been the historical trend pretty much since George Washington. The only way you can really legitimately single out Obama for this is if your political memory only runs about 3 years (since Jan 20, 2008).

Funny, because according the Fark Lib Patrol, Bush and Reagan are the only ones to ever do this.

FloydA: Oh is it "he's exactly the same as Bush" day again already?

Believe its that he is worse than Bush when it comes to executive expansion. There are numerous examples.

The Numbers: ManateeGag: DirtyDeadGhostofEbenezerCooke: Senator Barack Obama railed about President Bush's abuses of power would say anyting to get elected. President Barack Obama has seen the light will say anything to get re-elected..

Politicians way what you want to hear to get elected? imagine that.

Indeed. Still, at least Obama didn't claim to represent any sort of change.

I remember the campaign of "8 more years of Bush/Cheney".
He did deliver on that, so another campaign promise met.

abb3w: Not sure if it's supposed to be Frodo or Isildur.

Thank you. Yeah, looks like Isildur, but I had Cheney in my head for Gollum.

Forgot_my_password_again: There are a number of things I'm not happy with President Obama on, erosion of rights, healthcare reform thats not single payer and the wall street knob slobbin are top of the list.

But I like a lot of what he's done and he was given an economy completely farked by bush and the republicans so I'm willing to give him a second term to sort it out.

Plus the alternative is Rmoney.

'nuff said

How was the economy completely farked up by Bush and the Republicans? Out of curiosity.

State power exists and accumulates independently of any particular individuals who temporarily hold the reigns. Full story at 11

RexTalionis: Pretty much every president (well, every major president, because there were plenty of mediocre and obscure caretaker presidents out there) had a vested interest in expanding the power of the Executive Branch, no matter how they campaigned on the issue prior to their election. This has been the historical trend pretty much since George Washington. The only way you can really legitimately single out Obama for this is if your political memory only runs about 3 years (since Jan 20, 2008).

I agree with you completely about the executive power grab, however, not every president campaigns on bashing his predecessor's power grab, or as a Senator bashed his predecessor's power grab, so there is a bit of reason to single out the hypocrisy.

FloydA: Oh is it "he's exactly the same as Bush" day again already?

Are you implying that he isn't? Despite campaigning on government transparency during the first election, he's used the espionage act to prosecute government whistleblowers six times, and that's twice as many times as that act has been used since it was passed in 1917. Although he claimed he'd never use it, he codified Bush's indefinite detention gulag policy with the NDAA and extended it to cover American citizens. His cabinet is full of Goldman Sachs aluminati and other bankster-gangsters, and the NSA surveillance state is getting a new state of the art facility in Utah to spy on all of us. I think the Bush/Cheney neocons are probably very happy (despite the soundbites we hear from Fox Nuze) that he's fully embraced their policies because he's got enough charisma and blind following to continue building the plutocrat run authoritarian police state they wanted after 9/11 without any objection from the lowly peasantry.

I don't think he's exactly the same as Bush, I think he's worse.

ChemicalRummy: FloydA: Oh is it "he's exactly the same as Bush" day again already?

Are you implying that he isn't? Despite campaigning on government transparency during the first election, he's used the espionage act to prosecute government whistleblowers six times, and that's twice as many times as that act has been used since it was passed in 1917. Although he claimed he'd never use it, he codified Bush's indefinite detention gulag policy with the NDAA and extended it to cover American citizens. His cabinet is full of Goldman Sachs aluminati and other bankster-gangsters, and the NSA surveillance state is getting a new state of the art facility in Utah to spy on all of us. I think the Bush/Cheney neocons are probably very happy (despite the soundbites we hear from Fox Nuze) that he's fully embraced their policies because he's got enough charisma and blind following to continue building the plutocrat run authoritarian police state they wanted after 9/11 without any objection from the lowly peasantry.

I don't think he's exactly the same as Bush, I think he's worse.

And you think voting for Romney will change anything about this?

Actually, this is one of the examples of things I think Obama got wrong. As a senator he bashed Bush's expansion of executive power but once he stood in Bush's shoes, he realized why Bush did it.

EWreckedSean: so there is a bit of reason to single out the hypocrisy.

Yup, Obama deserves it, there is absolutely a reason to single him out on hypocrisy. This is one of the well merited criticisms of his presidency. Another example of his hypocrisy are his statements on the debt ceiling as Senator and then as POTUS.

He is by no means perfect.

/this thread will do nothing to stop Fark Independents from pretending all Farkers on the left say he is.

odinsposse: Third party presidential candidates are a waste.

...and as long as this mentality holds up, the Republican-Democratic Electoral Machine will always win.

/PICK. ANOTHER. NAME.

abb3w: palelizard: Wasn't there a political cartoon about Obama/Frodo and the One Ring?

Not sure if it's supposed to be Frodo or Isildur.


That would be Isildur. Gollum didn't wear armor, and also didn't let Frodo walk away with the ring.

Isildur took the one ring as a trophy after cutting it from Sauron's hand with the broken remains of Narsil. He was urged by the elves to destroy the one ring in the lava of Mt. Doom but refused, and was betrayed by the ring later.

And as far as civil liberties go, there's no functional difference between any of the candidates, Republican or Democrat, save Ron Paul. Ron Paul is - IMHO - a bit of a nut when it comes to states' rights and the Federal Reserve, but I think everyone could agree that he's the only candidate left who understands AND respects civil liberties with any kind of consistency. Obama may be getting my vote, but only because I don't want to vote for a Republican in this cycle. But Obama is no better than any Republican as far as civil liberties go.

qorkfiend: ChemicalRummy: FloydA: Oh is it "he's exactly the same as Bush" day again already?

Are you implying that he isn't? Despite campaigning on government transparency during the first election, he's used the espionage act to prosecute government whistleblowers six times, and that's twice as many times as that act has been used since it was passed in 1917. Although he claimed he'd never use it, he codified Bush's indefinite detention gulag policy with the NDAA and extended it to cover American citizens. His cabinet is full of Goldman Sachs aluminati and other bankster-gangsters, and the NSA surveillance state is getting a new state of the art facility in Utah to spy on all of us. I think the Bush/Cheney neocons are probably very happy (despite the soundbites we hear from Fox Nuze) that he's fully embraced their policies because he's got enough charisma and blind following to continue building the plutocrat run authoritarian police state they wanted after 9/11 without any objection from the lowly peasantry.

I don't think he's exactly the same as Bush, I think he's worse.

And you think voting for Romney will change anything about this?

I wasn't advocating Romney. I'll vote third party because voting R or D might as well be getting a choice on which inoperable tumor to get diagnosed with as far as I'm concerned.

fta" "Republican lawmakers watched warily."

Obama embracing executive power is a good lesson for all political parties. A political party cedes power to the executive branch while its' team is in power at its' own peril. Unless political operatives are quite certain, a totalitarian state can be implemented, preventing transition of power, each political party should count on the other "team" holding power sooner or later.

FloydA: Oh is it "he's exactly the same as Bush" day again already?

No, its "keep a sharp eye on your lazy-a$$ senators day". Congress has been very complicit in the increase in executive power. Congress will have to be the body to maintain or, if necessary, restore balance.

abb3w: palelizard: Wasn't there a political cartoon about Obama/Frodo and the One Ring?

Not sure if it's supposed to be Frodo or Isildur.

[chawedrosin.files.wordpress.com image 557x378]glaurunge: And because the Republican party has gone completely insane and wants even stronger surveillance and curtailment of civil liberties, there'll be no one challenging Obama on this during the general election.

Pretty much. RON PAUL is a bit of an anomaly on that (though seriously nuts in a number of other ways), but I don't think he's going to have enough impact on the GOP convention for his notions to let this leak out into a general election issue.

Came for this, leaving satisfied.

sammyk: FloydA: Oh is it "he's exactly the same as Bush" day again already?

Only if your you're a liberal hippy that took the brown mescaline at your local OWS protest. When Obama does it he is whiping his arse with the constitution. GWB did it to secure your freedom by authorizing all sorts of new surveillance powers to spy on, well anyone, therefore america.

Forever

Also, some of the surveillance issues are on-going. Since you brought up OWS, you may also be interested to know that there is a FOIA suit pending regarding possible co-ordination at the national level to suppress the Occupy movement.

Is Obama a better president than GWB? Let's face it, Mr. Potato-head would make a better president that GWB. Comparing Obama to GWB: I'm sorry; that's not holding Obama up to a high enough standard.

Forgot_my_password_again: There are a number of things I'm not happy with President Obama on, erosion of rights, healthcare reform thats not single payer and the wall street knob slobbin are top of the list.

But I like a lot of what he's done and he was given an economy completely farked by bush and the republicans so I'm willing to give him a second term to sort it out.

Plus the alternative is Rmoney.

'nuff said

I may have mentioned this story in another thread. I can't remember. I hope I don't bore anyone to tears. However, a few weeks ago I visited my hometown. I spoke with an individual I have admired for many years. This person described herself as a fiscal conservative. She said, essentially, "I don't quite trust Obama. There's just something about him that isn't right, but I'll vote for Obama in November. After all, no one else is running."