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(ABC)   George Zimmerman released from jail on $150,000 bail   (abcnews.go.com) divider line 613
    More: Followup, second mortgages, Seminole County, Jesse Jackson, Jr, Comic Book Legal Defense Fund  
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3311 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Apr 2012 at 1:35 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-23 03:24:55 AM  

wedun: Pointy Tail of Satan: I still don't understand how a Hispanic guy gets a name that's the German form of "Carpenter".

white guy and a hispanic woman had sex.

Hope that clears it up for you.


no.

two people who classify themselves as white had sex. one was anglo white, the other hispanic white, but both saw themselves as white. george zimmerman also classified himself as a white man. the confusion comes from American insistence on treating the hispanic ethnicity the same way as the black racial category, when it should be treated like jewish ethnicity

or

a man who classified himself as white and a woman who classified herself as indian had sex, and created a son who classified himself as white.. and was allowed to do so right up until national confusion about why his official documents classify him as a white man with an anglo name......... but he has an Indian face. again, the confusion comes from American insistence on treating the hispanic ethnicity the same way as the black racial category.

instead of opening a dialogue about why a white man of born of an American and non-American is so afraid of young blacks, we get anglo whites and anglo blacks BOTH refusing to categorize him as white, and hispanics voices either laughing at anglos or being drowned out by anglos but in both cases being dismissed from the conversation.
 
2012-04-23 03:26:02 AM  

wademh: Back in the middle ages, after the fall of the Roman Empire, parts of Europe were invaded from the South. Spain, in particular, was occupied and held as "Moorish" territory.


Ah, so everything you said was true, and as a "Moor" myself you are right on about the class issues when it comes to light vs dark skinned. Our census classifies North Africans as white, and amongst the NW African culture (people there are a mix of black African, Berber, Turkish, Arab, Roman, Vandal, etc), white skinned folks are at the top while black Africans (even a Taureg that lives on the coast) are treated somewhat poorly. Personally, I'm more in the middle when it comes to skin tone while my sister is paler than most Irish people I know. In America she gets treated as white and I as brown, which was always interesting to me.
 
2012-04-23 03:26:30 AM  
wademh

Nicely written and thanks for your view. My view is that we are all descendent's of Africa.
 
HBK
2012-04-23 03:27:23 AM  

sithon: Zizzowop: doglover: Zizzowop: 'Cause he cut himself shaving? My old lady bleeds more than that every month.

So if I fire a shotgun at you, but I miss, it's no harm no foul? Bullshiat.

Just because Treyvon wasn't very good at pounding people's heads off concrete doesn't make it a non-lethal attack to do so. You can easily die hitting your head by accident on a stone or pavement. Anyone who does the bouncing for you is trying to kill you and you should treat them as such.

The sad fact is, Treyvon might have been young, but all evidence points to the shooting being as clean cut as police initially treated it. The outrage has brought it to a Murder 2 trial instead of a manslaughter, but nothing has come to light that points at Zimmerman as anything but honest. Every new development and bit of info points to Treyvon basically working hard to get shot that night.

George put himself in that situation. I have had friends that got into fights, broken nose, even broken jaw, but they both lived because no one was packin a gun.

this . he put himself there looking for a fight antagionizing this young man till he attacked. then killed him . he's a killer , prosecute him.


Young men aren't animals. You can't say Zimmerman was asking to be attacked. Attacking someone for talking to you is an unreasonable reaction.

/also, we don't know who threw the first punch
 
2012-04-23 03:27:31 AM  

Jim_Callahan: Drummer: Uh oh.. LA Riots v2.0 ?

People, especially stupid people, are upset, but nowhere neat that upset. Zimmerman's not an actual authority figure and is actually being prosecuted, after all, it's hard to argue that he represents some sort of institutional racism that's beyond the reach of the normal, legal means of recourse... even for stupid people.


Post of the thread. There's way too much fapping over RAHOWA fantasies though, in this thread. Why?
 
2012-04-23 03:28:14 AM  

9beers: Yep, keep throwing out the T word because you can't make one valid argument to support what you think happened that night.


What I think happened was that Martin was walking home, ZImmerman started following him, Martin ran at first, then hid, Zimmerman chased him. That's supported by Zimmermans's phone call. Obviously at some point, Zimmerman caught him. And then we end up with a teenager with a gaping chest wound.

You think that's great, that's how things should go. You claim Martin was casing houses, that he was a thug, and that Zimmerman should get a medal. You've stated as fact that Martin started the physical confrontation, even though Zimmerman's own 911 call makes it clear that it was Zimmerman who wanted a confrontation and Martin was trying to get away from it. You've claimed that Zimmerman didn't chase Martin, despite Zimmerman saying it on the phone call and the body being found in a back yard.

You're an idiot if you really believe the crap you're spouting, but you've told enough outright lies along the way that I think you're just trolling.

My main issue with this case wasn't just that it happened, but the horrible investigation. When you have a smoking gun and a dead body, the cops shouldn't just say "Oh, well sir, if you say it was legal, you can go". Apparently it took them days to identify the body, while his parents were looking for him? He was on his cell phone to his GF shortly before the altercation. Couldn't they have used that cell phone and called back the last caller, or the # attached to "Dad" or something?

Unlike you, I don't want idiots to go out, start fights, and kill people without the police doing their farking job. I'm fine with self defense laws, stand your ground laws. But Zimmerman didn't stand his ground, he went looking for trouble, and he killed someone.

I'm not convinced it should be murder. I think it should probably be a manslaughter charge. I also think he should have a much lower bond.
 
2012-04-23 03:30:42 AM  

bonefish: I find it interesting you can follow someone around until they turn on you pissed off, then just kill them, totally legal. So intriguing, if you're willing to go through the trouble.


Well, you can, but you'll get charged with manslaughter or, in this case, murder 2 for starting the fight and will have to prove that you were actually defending yourself, which will be a bit of an uphill battle the longer you've known/harassed your target. The entire incident being under half an hour and occurring in a (gated?) neighborhood where Zimmerman is a volunteer watch guy is, well, pretty much all he's got going for him in avoiding ten years, minimum, in prison.

So all the "hurr durr, he's getting off" stuff is more a reminder that stupid can come from the left end of politics as well as the right, not any kind of actual insight.
 
2012-04-23 03:32:35 AM  
For all the BS surrounding the case, it seems pretty simple to deduce what happened:

Zimmerman was creeping around after Treyvon. Treyvon probably noticed and tried to get away from him. Even more so if he was doing something he shouldn't. Whether he was doesn't really matter. Zimmerman kept following and probably confronted him at one point. Zimmerman most likely escalated it and threatened to call the cops for no reason. At this point they probably seperated and Zimmerman kept following. Treyvon then calls him out, gets into a shouting match until Zimmerman says something punch worthy and Treyvon knocks him down. Since Zimmerman is so much smaller and probably has no clue what to do he just shoots him in response because he is irresponsible.

Both are at fault. But in the end Zimmerman still killed someone when he did not have to.
 
2012-04-23 03:33:08 AM  

HBK: sithon: Zizzowop: doglover: Zizzowop: 'Cause he cut himself shaving? My old lady bleeds more than that every month.

So if I fire a shotgun at you, but I miss, it's no harm no foul? Bullshiat.

Just because Treyvon wasn't very good at pounding people's heads off concrete doesn't make it a non-lethal attack to do so. You can easily die hitting your head by accident on a stone or pavement. Anyone who does the bouncing for you is trying to kill you and you should treat them as such.

The sad fact is, Treyvon might have been young, but all evidence points to the shooting being as clean cut as police initially treated it. The outrage has brought it to a Murder 2 trial instead of a manslaughter, but nothing has come to light that points at Zimmerman as anything but honest. Every new development and bit of info points to Treyvon basically working hard to get shot that night.

George put himself in that situation. I have had friends that got into fights, broken nose, even broken jaw, but they both lived because no one was packin a gun.

this . he put himself there looking for a fight antagionizing this young man till he attacked. then killed him . he's a killer , prosecute him.

Young men aren't animals. You can't say Zimmerman was asking to be attacked. Attacking someone for talking to you is an unreasonable reaction.

/also, we don't know who threw the first punch


Zimmerman did, symbolically. When dispatch tells you let the police handle it, and you ignore dispatch with your gun out........ you are, indeed, looking to start a fight. Zimmerman found it. Martin died. Zimmerman's daddy and the cops who knew Zimmerman well pulled in favors. The rest is history.

There will be no LA 92 redux. Only Simi Valley 92 redux.

Then Zimmerman can go back to being a White Man with an Indian face getting pats on the back from LEO.

And Martin will still be dead.
 
2012-04-23 03:33:48 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: I am currently in Torrance, California. Just a few miles away from the terrible Rodney King riots and Watts riots.

The people calling for Zimmerman's head are fueling another riot, and the people of these communities are going to have to put up with fires, looting, and beatings. Again.

Can't we all just get along?


Don't worry...like previous SoCal riots, nothing will happen anywhere near Torrance.
 
2012-04-23 03:37:11 AM  

ExperianScaresCthulhu: Jim_Callahan: Drummer: Uh oh.. LA Riots v2.0 ?

People, especially stupid people, are upset, but nowhere neat that upset. Zimmerman's not an actual authority figure and is actually being prosecuted, after all, it's hard to argue that he represents some sort of institutional racism that's beyond the reach of the normal, legal means of recourse... even for stupid people.

Post of the thread. There's way too much fapping over RAHOWA fantasies though, in this thread. Why?


Because there's some sort of institutional racism that's otherwise beyond the reach of normal legal recourse, and people dig watching it on TV as long as they don't have to live where it's going down.

I don't know what the "ratings' for the LA Riots were, but I know people were watching them like it was the latest cop reality show. However, being here, it was something less than fun living for four days under martial law, and I was actually in Orange County.
 
HBK
2012-04-23 03:37:35 AM  

ExperianScaresCthulhu: Zimmerman did, symbolically. When dispatch tells you let the police handle it, and you ignore dispatch with your gun out........ you are, indeed, looking to start a fight. Zimmerman found it. Martin died. Zimmerman's daddy and the cops who knew Zimmerman well pulled in favors. The rest is history.

There will be no LA 92 redux. Only Simi Valley 92 redux.

Then Zimmerman can go back to being a White Man with an Indian face getting pats on the back from LEO.

And Martin will still be dead.


Unfortunately "symbolic" acts are not among the elements required to prove murder.

/stupid laws keeping people who may or may not have committed a crime out of prison.
//you have to take the good with the bad, but it's still the best way.
 
2012-04-23 03:38:01 AM  

Shenanigans!: AverageAmericanGuy: I am currently in Torrance, California. Just a few miles away from the terrible Rodney King riots and Watts riots.

The people calling for Zimmerman's head are fueling another riot, and the people of these communities are going to have to put up with fires, looting, and beatings. Again.

Can't we all just get along?

Don't worry...like previous SoCal riots, nothing will happen anywhere near Torrance.


I'm worried about those Cobra Kai thugs, mostly.
 
2012-04-23 03:38:53 AM  

9beers: JuggleGeek: Posting pics that aren't him and lying about what happened makes you look like you're going for the "9beers troll of the thread" award.

Yep, keep throwing out the T word because you can't make one valid argument to support what you think happened that night.


It's funny how beers is a troll for using fact based logic. It's sad that's the direction our country is headed.

/I'll buy you a six pack dude.
 
HBK
2012-04-23 03:43:53 AM  

OMG! We're All Gonna Die!: 9beers: JuggleGeek: Posting pics that aren't him and lying about what happened makes you look like you're going for the "9beers troll of the thread" award.

Yep, keep throwing out the T word because you can't make one valid argument to support what you think happened that night.

It's funny how beers is a troll for using fact based logic. It's sad that's the direction our country is headed.

/I'll buy you a six pack dude.


Dumb people on fark resort to calling people who don't agree with them trolls when they realize their own positions are weakly supported or wholly unsupported.
 
2012-04-23 03:48:14 AM  

wademh: To simplify somewhat, Hispanic refers to a shorter term country of origin going back to either Spain or a Spanish colony. "White" or "Caucasian" refers to longer term racial heritage.

I'm not going to charge you this time, but next time try not to repeat questions that are actually part of a basic grammar school education, especially if you are going to ask it in a way that is trying to imply the term is somehow stupid. Because that level of a lack of awareness of self makes many of us very very sad.


I'm not sure. My own understanding is:

- Hispanic is longer term, not shorter term. The rest of Europe had to play catch up with the Iberians. The families who have lived in the US the longest -- who are not classified as Amerindians -- are going to be those who self-classify Hispanic. White Hispanic.
- Caucasian just means European American.
Hispanic means Name Ends In -Ez.
- It's Latino versus Anglo............. like the Amish's 'German versus English'.
- United States of American blacks are Anglo.
- Caribbean blacks, Central American blacks and South American blacks and Mexican blacks are Latino.
- Amerindians are Amerindians. Even when some should be classified as White.
 
2012-04-23 03:48:31 AM  

Drummer: Uh oh.. LA Riots v2.0 ?

Thresher: I am going to go ahead and call Drummer on this one - LA Riots v2.0 in a few months. :/


I'll bet Governor Lex Luthor is totally itchin' to release the hounds call out the National Guard when that happens. It's gonna get freaky.
 
2012-04-23 03:52:16 AM  
www.amnation.com

That's the worst looking "backwards B" I have ever seen.
 
Skr
2012-04-23 03:52:51 AM  
Whenever I see "Seminole County" my mind immediately auto-corrects it into "Semenhole County".

Anyways, if he skips bail, I think Trayvon's family should get a piece of that 150,000. Though I doubt it works that way.
 
2012-04-23 03:52:55 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Shenanigans!: AverageAmericanGuy: I am currently in Torrance, California. Just a few miles away from the terrible Rodney King riots and Watts riots.

The people calling for Zimmerman's head are fueling another riot, and the people of these communities are going to have to put up with fires, looting, and beatings. Again.

Can't we all just get along?

Don't worry...like previous SoCal riots, nothing will happen anywhere near Torrance.

I'm worried about those Cobra Kai thugs, mostly.


I think you should be OK as long as you're not the new kid in town. If you are, try to wait it out until a newer kid comes to town.
 
2012-04-23 04:03:31 AM  
God damn this place gets stupid in the early hours. If I have a buck for every idiot I've seen say "facts" while spouting speculation, and five bucks for the idiots flat out making things up, I could retire.

My list for "Zimmerman-Martin Idiot" is about to get longer than my "9-11 Idiot" list.

The only facts I've seen released so far support self-defense. Unless they have more evidence than has been released, or Zimmerman changes his story, there is no way in hell they'll get a conviction that stands.
 
2012-04-23 04:14:17 AM  
Skr~

When I think of "Seminole County", I think of Archibald Henderson.

/not really sure if the General was ever in that county, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it
//plus, I get to use slashies
 
2012-04-23 04:18:12 AM  

HBK: OMG! We're All Gonna Die!: 9beers: JuggleGeek: Posting pics that aren't him and lying about what happened makes you look like you're going for the "9beers troll of the thread" award.

Yep, keep throwing out the T word because you can't make one valid argument to support what you think happened that night.

It's funny how beers is a troll for using fact based logic. It's sad that's the direction our country is headed.

/I'll buy you a six pack dude.

Dumb people on fark resort to calling people who don't agree with them trolls when they realize their own positions are weakly supported or wholly unsupported.


Looks like someone needs to post that screencap of 9beers saying Zimmerman deserving a medal for keeping that thug off the streets. Because clearly that's a rational opinion supported by facts.
 
2012-04-23 04:21:06 AM  

wademh:
Back in the middle ages, after the fall of the Roman Empire, parts of Europe were invaded from the South. Spain, in particular, was occupied and held as "Moorish" territory. As often happens, men among the invaders take up with the local women. In this case, as the invaders were dark skinned, the children of these couplings tended to have darker skin than the Caucasian natives of Spain. The occupation of Spain lasted a long time. There was much mingling. Because of this, many Spaniards are darker than typical Caucasians

This man agrees.
2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-04-23 04:22:03 AM  

FubarBDilligaf: God damn this place gets stupid in the early hours. If I have a buck for every idiot I've seen say "facts" while spouting speculation, and five bucks for the idiots flat out making things up, I could retire.

My list for "Zimmerman-Martin Idiot" is about to get longer than my "9-11 Idiot" list.

The only facts I've seen released so far support self-defense. Unless they have more evidence than has been released, or Zimmerman changes his story, there is no way in hell they'll get a conviction that stands.


When you say "early hours", do you mean A.M. or P.M.? Or perhaps GMT? Sidereal time?
My liver thinks I'm stupid 24/7.
 
2012-04-23 04:30:09 AM  

FubarBDilligaf: God damn this place gets stupid in the early hours. If I have a buck for every idiot I've seen say "facts" while spouting speculation, and five bucks for the idiots flat out making things up, I could retire.

My list for "Zimmerman-Martin Idiot" is about to get longer than my "9-11 Idiot" list.

The only facts I've seen released so far support self-defense. Unless they have more evidence than has been released, or Zimmerman changes his story, there is no way in hell they'll get a conviction that stands.


That hurts. I'm on Fark at all hours of the day. That's why I pay Drew $355.00 a month for my TOTAL account.
 
2012-04-23 04:31:03 AM  

FubarBDilligaf: God damn this place gets stupid in the early hours. If I have a buck for every idiot I've seen say "facts" while spouting speculation, and five bucks for the idiots flat out making things up, I could retire.

My list for "Zimmerman-Martin Idiot" is about to get longer than my "9-11 Idiot" list.

The only facts I've seen released so far support self-defense. Unless they have more evidence than has been released, or Zimmerman changes his story, there is no way in hell they'll get a conviction that stands.


Firstly, one must distinguish between "stand your ground" and "self-defense". Legal opinion varies but stand your ground may well not apply given that George pressed the encounter by exiting his car to follow.

As to simpler notions of self-defense, we mostly have just George's statements. Those don't qualify as "facts" as yet.
We have some mixed eye witness testimony, as is typical of eye witness testimony. Nobody is claiming to have seen the first punch thrown. We even have mixed reports of who was on top of whom. Voice analysis of 911 calls has suggested it wasn't George calling for help.
We do have that George did indeed receive some injuries.

I'd say we need a great deal more evidence and analysis of evidence presented before we credit Z's story.
I'd also say that the 911 transcripts paint the picture of a man spoiling for an encounter with somebody he was convinced was up to no good.

I'm hoping some evidence comes forward that is more decisive than anything we've seen so far.
 
2012-04-23 04:34:23 AM  

FubarBDilligaf: God damn this place gets stupid in the early hours. If I have a buck for every idiot I've seen say "facts" while spouting speculation, and five bucks for the idiots flat out making things up, I could retire.

My list for "Zimmerman-Martin Idiot" is about to get longer than my "9-11 Idiot" list.

The only facts I've seen released so far support self-defense. Unless they have more evidence than has been released, or Zimmerman changes his story, there is no way in hell they'll get a conviction that stands.


See, what's interesting about that is how did this case become the Monk Agatha Christie Mystery, we know who killed him, we generally know what happened, we're not looking for Mr. Green in the dining room with the candlestick, so the only 'facts' missing are what we could have got from the dead guy. It's hard to defend your case when you're dead. I know people who work as volunteer police, they wear uniforms, they don't approach suspicious people, they call it in and wait for real cops, and they certainly don't carry a gun. If George was defending himself, and he may have been, it was because he unnecessarily put himself in a dangerous situation. But you're probably right, FL law will get him off the hook as it will be hard to say it was murder, because I think it was more like manslaughter, the cops farked up the investigation, and the DA is a d-bag. But I still think if George would have just stayed home playing Call of Duty like the rest of us, he wouldn't have shot an unarmed teenager that wasn't doing anything wrong, yes, Martin wasn't student of the month, but he wasn't Tookie Williams either.
 
2012-04-23 04:36:38 AM  
This tragedy never would have happened if Zimmerman had mad sweeps.
 
2012-04-23 04:52:15 AM  

browntimmy: HBK: OMG! We're All Gonna Die!: 9beers: JuggleGeek: Posting pics that aren't him and lying about what happened makes you look like you're going for the "9beers troll of the thread" award.

Yep, keep throwing out the T word because you can't make one valid argument to support what you think happened that night.

It's funny how beers is a troll for using fact based logic. It's sad that's the direction our country is headed.

/I'll buy you a six pack dude.

Dumb people on fark resort to calling people who don't agree with them trolls when they realize their own positions are weakly supported or wholly unsupported.

Looks like someone needs to post that screencap of 9beers saying Zimmerman deserving a medal for keeping that thug off the streets. Because clearly that's a rational opinion supported by facts.


Clearly someone needs to be on the side of fact and not on the side of "let's throw thing at the wall and see what sticks". You're not gonna hurt my feelings man. All facts point to trayvon as a not so nice kinda guy if you know what I mean. I'm not saying he deserved to die, but if someone attacked me unprovoked (like evidence says he did to zim). I'd shoot to.

/yes I carry. I've never pulled my gun ever. No matter how much I'd wanted to.
 
2012-04-23 04:57:51 AM  
I don't understand what makes people stray from fact so much. What is it that makes people blind to text and make their own facts. I was taught to read early. Others not so much.
 
2012-04-23 05:13:20 AM  
I don't have an opinion either way in this matter because I wasn't there, there's a stunning lack of witnesses and evidence favoring either side of the issue, and the whole thing has basically been hurled to the court of public opinion.

It's remarkable the things people obsessively demand proof for before believing (Reddit AMAs come to mind), considering the things they instinctively believe without giving skepticism a chance (examples are...abundant).
 
2012-04-23 05:18:30 AM  

Gyrfalcon: sonorangal: I lived in San Diego when the LA Riots happened. I had a free weekend and was going to go to LA. I got a late start, things kept happening that were delaying my trip for some reason, then I got one of those sixth since things that warn of trouble. I decided not to go and stayed home. My room mates had the TV on and I was glad I stayed home because the places I wanted to go, some were in the middle of riots.

I had a coworker who had a home in Paramount, he took time off so that him and his neighbors could protect their part of the neighborhood.

The footage of the truck driver getting bricks thrown at him, people shooting from the roof tops of their stores as they were looted was surreal.

I knew the violence would end because the mail couldn't get through and the first was check day. I ended going up a couple weeks later. Glass on most places was fixed but the burned out buildings were a grim reminder how something could happen in an instant.

Oh, that was an awesome couple days. I was doing a medic internship in Long Beach Memorial ER; a couple of my friends were at King/Drew Medical Center and Daniel Freeman. The guys at Freeman were the ones who dragged Denney off his truck after the gangbanger and his friends drove him there (the truck wouldn't fit under the ER canopy). My friend at King was there for 50 hours and was doing IVs one-handed by the end of it all, and got to treat gunshot wounds all by himself.

What I recall was going back to Long Beach the two days later, when the Marines were outside the door and treating a paramedic for exhaustion after they'd run something like 40 calls in 48 hours--he sat down and couldn't stand back up again. That and hearing the C-130's landing at Los Alamitos all night long bringing in the National Guard.

Of course my favorite memory is doing a thesis paper a few years later, analyzing why it was mostly Daryl Gates' fault the whole debacle happened in the first place. Dumbass cop.


Daryl Gates handled the whole thing badly. It it was understandable with the way the police force was too in the poorer neighborhoods of LA. Rodney wasn't the greatest guy either. He should never been treated the way he was by police. He's unfortunate beating brought a lot of things wrong with the police force to light.

I was in the Navy and my boyfriend at that time was planning on getting out and becoming a sheriff. He was taking classes when this happened and his instructors tried to justify the excessive beating or Rodney as he was on drugs and they (the police) could not control him. I called BS on that and had very heated discussion on why it was not right either way.
 
2012-04-23 05:28:33 AM  

9beers: strathmeyer: How come when you make stuff up it's facts but when we try to describe to you what happened it's speculation? You're ignorant because this is a simple cause of right and wrong that you are obviously injecting your bias into.

I've never said that any of the things I've speculated on are facts. What I just said is that unlike those of the mob, my speculations aren't being shot down left and right. It is a simple case of right and wrong. Zimmerman was within his rights and Martin was wrong for attacking somebody.


Except NOBODY has any facts, one way or the other, as to who started the fight. The eyewitness didn't see the start of the fight.

The only account we have about how the fight began is from Zimmerman, and considering the circumstances, his word on that matter is unreliable.

The whole case rests on whether or not Zimmerman initiated the confrontation. If not, fine; Zimmerman was acting in self-defense. If he did, then Martin was the one acting in self-defense, and Zimmerman is a murderer.

So yes, you're speculating just as much as anyone else here.
 
2012-04-23 05:31:54 AM  

LordJiro: 9beers: strathmeyer: How come when you make stuff up it's facts but when we try to describe to you what happened it's speculation? You're ignorant because this is a simple cause of right and wrong that you are obviously injecting your bias into.

I've never said that any of the things I've speculated on are facts. What I just said is that unlike those of the mob, my speculations aren't being shot down left and right. It is a simple case of right and wrong. Zimmerman was within his rights and Martin was wrong for attacking somebody.

Except NOBODY has any facts, one way or the other, as to who started the fight. The eyewitness didn't see the start of the fight.

The only account we have about how the fight began is from Zimmerman, and considering the circumstances, his word on that matter is unreliable.

The whole case rests on whether or not Zimmerman initiated the confrontation. If not, fine; Zimmerman was acting in self-defense. If he did, then Martin was the one acting in self-defense, and Zimmerman is a murderer.

So yes, you're speculating just as much as anyone else here.


What makes gz unreliable? His bail was based on the fact that he was reliable. It appears his been honest and cooperative the whole time.

You can't force it man. Just go with the flow man. BE COOL MAN!
 
2012-04-23 05:33:54 AM  

Joshie: I don't have an opinion either way in this matter because I wasn't there, there's a stunning lack of witnesses and evidence favoring either side of the issue, and the whole thing has basically been hurled to the court of public opinion.

It's remarkable the things people obsessively demand proof for before believing (Reddit AMAs come to mind), considering the things they instinctively believe without giving skepticism a chance (examples are...abundant).


You should have an opinion though. At least about the legal aspect of it. Since no one saw everything that happened that night if Zimmerman tells an account that gives him a valid self defense claim and the evidence backs up or at least doesn't contradict what he says they have to let him go.
 
2012-04-23 05:44:17 AM  
Reading all the gleeful, exited predictions of riots if Zimmerman is acquitted, it's painfully obvious that a lot of people actively WANT that to happen.
Hmmm.
I wonder why.
I'm starting to suspect that timid little beta males who spend too much time alone with their computers get f**ked up in the head.
 
2012-04-23 05:47:03 AM  

wademh: Voice analysis of 911 calls has suggested it wasn't George calling for help.


You've seen the problems with this "evidence" haven't you? Like the software used doesn't have a great success rate for two speeches from the same person. Until the FBI, and not some dofus with a laptop trying to sell something, says it I'm not letting this count for anything.
 
2012-04-23 05:52:13 AM  

OMG! We're All Gonna Die!: All facts point to trayvon as a not so nice kinda guy if you know what I mean. I'm not saying he deserved to die, but if someone attacked me unprovoked (like evidence says he did to zim). I'd shoot to.


All facts point to Trayvon as an A and B student, who was on the honor roll, who was planning on going to college and becoming an aviation mechanic someday. His teachers have said he was cheerful and non-violent. Trayvon was never arrested for any crimes in his life. Even if he was a petty thief and sometime marijuana user, it's no big deal. I did that too when I was 17. Eventually I grew up and quit doing childish things.

Zimmerman on the other hand has been arrested for violence. Zimmerman also had a restraining order put on him by a former girlfriend who was scared to death that he would beat her. Zimmerman is the real thug.

The evidence indicates that Zimmerman was stalking Trayvon and that Trayvon was scared of the man following him around the neighborhood. If Trayvon punched Zimmerman it was only to defend himself from an armed stalker.
 
2012-04-23 05:55:01 AM  

Zizzowop: George put himself in that situation. I have had friends that got into fights, broken nose, even broken jaw, but they both lived because no one was packin a gun.


I agree, he absolutely put himself in that situation. He did it by legally obtaining a concealed weapons permit, and completely abiding by Florida statues.

/call the whaambulance, or have the laws rewritten.
 
2012-04-23 06:00:00 AM  

GoSurfing: Zizzowop: George put himself in that situation. I have had friends that got into fights, broken nose, even broken jaw, but they both lived because no one was packin a gun.

I agree, he absolutely put himself in that situation. He did it by legally obtaining a concealed weapons permit, and completely abiding by Florida statues.

/call the whaambulance, or have the laws rewritten.


Well, actually - that's where this is going next. Rick Scott has already empaneled a committee to look into the law, and review it for possible changes. It was inevitable that with the NRA running around the country spending big bucks, pushing these "stand your ground" laws, that one would get through that was poorly written or overly broad - and this may be the one. At least it's got people thinking about it, and looking at the situation.
 
2012-04-23 06:03:48 AM  

FubarBDilligaf: The only facts I've seen released so far support self-defense. Unless they have more evidence than has been released, or Zimmerman changes his story, there is no way in hell they'll get a conviction that stands.


Zimmerman has apparently had some 'inconsistencies' in his story. The fact he has talked too much to too many people means if he goes down it will be because he sunk himself.

It does seem that the prosecutions angle is that they think they can prove Zimmerman pursued, and pursued aggressively the entire time. Whether they can prove this or not we will have to wait and see, but if that was the case and they can show Zimmerman was clearly threatening enough to Martin that Martin was covered under 'SYG' himself, then Zimmerman has no defense. I don't think anyone but an idiot at this point believes Zimmerman had no injuries - a fight obviously took place - but if the actions leading up to that were sufficiently threatening to Martin, that evidence becomes irrelevant.
tl,dr; If the prosecution can place 'SYG' protection on Martin, then Zimmy doesn't get it. at least that seems to be the direction they are taking at this point.
 
2012-04-23 06:06:32 AM  

jso2897: GoSurfing: Zizzowop: George put himself in that situation. I have had friends that got into fights, broken nose, even broken jaw, but they both lived because no one was packin a gun.

I agree, he absolutely put himself in that situation. He did it by legally obtaining a concealed weapons permit, and completely abiding by Florida statues.

/call the whaambulance, or have the laws rewritten.

Well, actually - that's where this is going next. Rick Scott has already empaneled a committee to look into the law, and review it for possible changes. It was inevitable that with the NRA running around the country spending big bucks, pushing these "stand your ground" laws, that one would get through that was poorly written or overly broad - and this may be the one. At least it's got people thinking about it, and looking at the situation.


I agree, and to clarify, I'm not taking sides in the Zimmerman/Martin case. I don't even care. I'll wait for the verdict and accept it. I was just trying to respond (snarkily obviously) that Zimmerman wasn't necessarily a "bad guy" just for carrying a gun. I don't own guns myself, but he had the law 100% behind him in doing so. What happened that day might be a different story.
 
2012-04-23 06:08:57 AM  

sonorangal: I lived in San Diego when the LA Riots happened. I had a free weekend and was going to go to LA. I got a late start, things kept happening that were delaying my trip for some reason, then I got one of those sixth since things that warn of trouble. I decided not to go and stayed home. My room mates had the TV on and I was glad I stayed home because the places I wanted to go, some were in the middle of riots.

I had a coworker who had a home in Paramount, he took time off so that him and his neighbors could protect their part of the neighborhood.

The footage of the truck driver getting bricks thrown at him, people shooting from the roof tops of their stores as they were looted was surreal.

I knew the violence would end because the mail couldn't get through and the first was check day. I ended going up a couple weeks later. Glass on most places was fixed but the burned out buildings were a grim reminder how something could happen in an instant.


loooooooool
 
2012-04-23 06:15:25 AM  

OMG! We're All Gonna Die!: LordJiro: 9beers: strathmeyer: How come when you make stuff up it's facts but when we try to describe to you what happened it's speculation? You're ignorant because this is a simple cause of right and wrong that you are obviously injecting your bias into.

I've never said that any of the things I've speculated on are facts. What I just said is that unlike those of the mob, my speculations aren't being shot down left and right. It is a simple case of right and wrong. Zimmerman was within his rights and Martin was wrong for attacking somebody.

Except NOBODY has any facts, one way or the other, as to who started the fight. The eyewitness didn't see the start of the fight.

The only account we have about how the fight began is from Zimmerman, and considering the circumstances, his word on that matter is unreliable.

The whole case rests on whether or not Zimmerman initiated the confrontation. If not, fine; Zimmerman was acting in self-defense. If he did, then Martin was the one acting in self-defense, and Zimmerman is a murderer.

So yes, you're speculating just as much as anyone else here.

What makes gz unreliable? His bail was based on the fact that he was reliable. It appears his been honest and cooperative the whole time.

You can't force it man. Just go with the flow man. BE COOL MAN!


His account of how the fight started is unreliable because the fight ENDED with him killing Martin. If he initiated the confrontation and told the officers that he did so, he'd have been behind bars on day one and we'd never have heard of the case.

He has clear incentive to lie about the events.
 
2012-04-23 06:20:31 AM  

GoSurfing: jso2897: GoSurfing: Zizzowop: George put himself in that situation. I have had friends that got into fights, broken nose, even broken jaw, but they both lived because no one was packin a gun.

I agree, he absolutely put himself in that situation. He did it by legally obtaining a concealed weapons permit, and completely abiding by Florida statues.

/call the whaambulance, or have the laws rewritten.

Well, actually - that's where this is going next. Rick Scott has already empaneled a committee to look into the law, and review it for possible changes. It was inevitable that with the NRA running around the country spending big bucks, pushing these "stand your ground" laws, that one would get through that was poorly written or overly broad - and this may be the one. At least it's got people thinking about it, and looking at the situation.

I agree, and to clarify, I'm not taking sides in the Zimmerman/Martin case. I don't even care. I'll wait for the verdict and accept it. I was just trying to respond (snarkily obviously) that Zimmerman wasn't necessarily a "bad guy" just for carrying a gun. I don't own guns myself, but he had the law 100% behind him in doing so. What happened that day might be a different story.


No doubt. People may be surprised when they hear the "evidence" that has been blared at them by the media submitted in a courtroom in a methodical and rational manner - it will be almost unrecognizable.
 
2012-04-23 06:21:00 AM  

brainscab: I want to know if this guy studied the self defense laws before he went out to pick a fight with a gun in his pocket,


Are you referring to the Stand Your Ground Law, or are you one of the people who came to a verdict based on what you've seen on your preferred 24-hour news channel instead of the actual facts of the case?
 
2012-04-23 06:21:49 AM  

9beers: TheJoe03: I also found it funny that dumb ole 9Beers was ignorant enough to not know there where white latinos and he actually thought such an idea was unbelievable.

Yeah, I'm the ignorant one, not a moron like you that's been speculating on this case from the beginning and being proven to be an idiot every time new information comes out.


Well done, I haven`t laughed so much in years.
 
2012-04-23 06:25:34 AM  

pedobearapproved: wademh: Voice analysis of 911 calls has suggested it wasn't George calling for help.

You've seen the problems with this "evidence" haven't you? Like the software used doesn't have a great success rate for two speeches from the same person. Until the FBI, and not some dofus with a laptop trying to sell something, says it I'm not letting this count for anything.


I believe my language was appropriate. There's a real problem between being able to conclusively rule something in, and ruling something out. They could not conclusively rule George in. That is distinct from ruling George out. Without appropriate samples of Trayvon's voice, they can't do a relative comparison. However, it gives great room for other evidence to come into play. That's what I want to see: the rest of the evidence.
 
2012-04-23 06:28:21 AM  

leevis: brainscab: I want to know if this guy studied the self defense laws before he went out to pick a fight with a gun in his pocket,

Are you referring to the Stand Your Ground Law, or are you one of the people who came to a verdict based on what you've seen on your preferred 24-hour news channel instead of the actual facts of the case?


Well, that would be impossible, since the twelve people who are going to reach a verdict after hearing the "actual facts" of the case haven't even been picked yet.
I haven't heard the "actual facts" of the case. Neither have you. Neither has anyone else here.
The "media" is just a river of shiat - you can dip into it and pull out whatever you want.
 
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