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(Time)   Facebook is good for all sorts of things, such as sharing photos, planning events, exchanging recipes, informing military wives of their husbands' death in Afghanistan-- and that's just to name just a few   (newsfeed.time.com) divider line 72
    More: Fail, Facebook, Afghanistan, Fort Carson, Master Sergeant Craig Zentkovich  
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8645 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Apr 2012 at 4:45 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-22 10:11:19 PM  
Well it's better than making the poor telegram guy do it.
 
2012-04-23 12:40:05 AM  
There's no good way to tell someone. Whether it's strangers comeing to your house in full dress uniform or your husband's comrades over the phone. The meltdown was coming.

Now, I understand why the military would be miffed by this. They have protocols and those messengers are trained to offer counseling and such, but the wife wasn't told about her husband on facebook. She was told over the phone by a friend of her husband's. Regardless, there is no good way to hear that your husband is dead.
 
2012-04-23 01:12:25 AM  

Ambivalence: There's no good way to tell someone.


Exactly.

But personally I'd rather get the news ASAP rather than suddenly have a guy in dress uniform show up at the house. When Sgt Sorryforyouloss shows up in movies and such, all I can think is "I totally would not want to find out that way for a member of my family."
 
2012-04-23 01:32:22 AM  
Your husband is on the roof


/got nothin'
 
2012-04-23 04:05:26 AM  

Ambivalence: There's no good way to tell someone. Whether it's strangers comeing to your house in full dress uniform or your husband's comrades over the phone. The meltdown was coming.

Now, I understand why the military would be miffed by this. They have protocols and those messengers are trained to offer counseling and such, but the wife wasn't told about her husband on facebook. She was told over the phone by a friend of her husband's. Regardless, there is no good way to hear that your husband is dead.


this, basically this and mostly this.
The friend thought that they were "helping" ... but not so much.

and yah, there is NO good way to hear bad news. the best you can get is short and to the point.
beating around the bush? not so good.

People with husbands, take one step forward.
Not so fast Mrs. Brown.
 
2012-04-23 04:52:30 AM  
On deployment (at least when I was out there in 2010-2011) anytime there was a casualty, especially a fatality, there was a communication blackout. It would last for days.

We weren't specifically told not to notify next of kin about losses but I don't even see how it was possible. It would take some rank's weight to contact the states during blackouts.
 
2012-04-23 05:01:05 AM  
fark it. Three previous farking tours, two daughters, and an eleven week old wife. Why do people in the military care so little about their families that they do this shiat? This isn't a troll, this is a god damn honest question. Single guys who want to go and fark things up, that I understand. But at what point does your family become more important than another Russian roulette spin?
 
2012-04-23 05:10:15 AM  
I didn't know facebook had a phone feature.
 
2012-04-23 05:12:31 AM  

Evil Kirk vs Bad Ash: fark it. Three previous farking tours, two daughters, and an eleven week old wife. Why do people in the military care so little about their families that they do this shiat?


I lol'd at the bold part.

I by no means speak for everyone in the service, but it's more about what you love more, your country and what it stands for or your family. Also, once you reach a certain level in the career ladder, it makes sense to stay in and do your 20 years. The guy was an E-5, right about the time the pay no longer completely sucks (this coming from a current E-5). So there is also that angle too.
 
2012-04-23 05:23:28 AM  

doglover: But personally I'd rather get the news ASAP rather than suddenly have a guy in dress uniform show up at the house. When Sgt Sorryforyouloss shows up in movies and such, all I can think is "I totally would not want to find out that way for a member of my family."


I understand this is your personal preference, but on the whole, people react differently to the news. This is why it is done in person, so that any eventuality can be accounted for. I do not believe it happens the way it is shown in the movies. I don't think they tell them and leave. I believe they stay with them, help them contact other family members and friends to be sure they are cared for.
 
2012-04-23 05:26:25 AM  

Smokey the Bare: it's more about what you love more, your country and what it stands for or your family.


If you love your country more than your family, why have one? Why put them through that, playing second fiddle to multiple deployments to the ass end of the world? I mean, if the country was suddenly attacked or an ally was attacked, I could understand.

But to continually re-enlist to go play test subject for the latest counter-terrorism or national building theories in a country where no one really seems to know why we're over there anymore...I just don't get that. I mean, I can understand why someone would do that. I don't understand why someone would do that *and* have a family. Surely he could have found work in the private sector doing something - according to all the commercials he was prepared for the jobs of tomorrow.
 
2012-04-23 05:42:21 AM  
People are idiots.

Film at 11.
 
2012-04-23 05:50:37 AM  
sounds like she didn't learn about it through facebook, but that someone contacted her. whether they used facebook or the telephone or email is really irrelevant. the headline implies that her husband's death appeared in her news feed
"husband is dead"
"biatchy sister likes this"
"mom commented on this post"
"ex-boyfriend changed his status to i'm here for you babe"
 
2012-04-23 05:52:03 AM  

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: Smokey the Bare: it's more about what you love more, your country and what it stands for or your family.

If you love your country more than your family, why have one? Why put them through that, playing second fiddle to multiple deployments to the ass end of the world? I mean, if the country was suddenly attacked or an ally was attacked, I could understand.


So what your saying is there shouldn't be any married personnel in the military unless WWIII has started.
 
2012-04-23 05:59:29 AM  
1. She wasn't informed of her husband's death by the Army through Facebook
2. She wasn't informed of her husband's death through Facebook
3. She wasn't informed of her husband's death by the Army
4. She was the only one it happened to


so I suppose the fail tag is in relation to either subby's poor reading skills, or his blatant manipulation of facts for the sake of one more greenlight?

fark you.
 
2012-04-23 06:01:23 AM  

Evil Kirk vs Bad Ash: fark it. Three previous farking tours, two daughters, and an eleven week old wife. Why do people in the military care so little about their families that they do this shiat? This isn't a troll, this is a god damn honest question. Single guys who want to go and fark things up, that I understand. But at what point does your family become more important than another Russian roulette spin?


I really don't think you understand how the military works


Also I am hearing a shiatload of planes over Jerusalem right now
 
2012-04-23 06:04:25 AM  
Well, as long as they used an "I haz a sad" picture and a frowny emoticon, I think that's fine.
 
2012-04-23 06:05:41 AM  

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: Smokey the Bare: it's more about what you love more, your country and what it stands for or your family.

If you love your country more than your family, why have one? Why put them through that, playing second fiddle to multiple deployments to the ass end of the world? I mean, if the country was suddenly attacked or an ally was attacked, I could understand.

But to continually re-enlist to go play test subject for the latest counter-terrorism or national building theories in a country where no one really seems to know why we're over there anymore...I just don't get that. I mean, I can understand why someone would do that. I don't understand why someone would do that *and* have a family. Surely he could have found work in the private sector doing something - according to all the commercials he was prepared for the jobs of tomorrow.


I am enlisted in the military. I signed up during a time of war. I understand that it is very hard on a family, and I have chosen not to build one until after I end my active service. That being said:

Our nation benefits from having a professional military, and not a conscript or impressed one that rapidly grows in case of a war. There are perishable skills, and long term professional development that just can't happen overnight as they would need to in the military that you envision. Even reservists who do the one weekend a month deal need a long workup before they are combat ready.

Unfortunately the downside of having a professional military, is the need for career military service-members. You can't ask a large group of people to willingly forgo a wife or children for 4-20 years. It is just not practical. Again, I am in a special duty assignment that requires me to be un-married. There are not that many of us, and they have trouble recruiting. (If we get married, we get relieved for cause) On a national scale, it is untenable.

While the risk violent death is higher in the military, there are many reasons to serve. People serve for patriotic and altruistic reasons, but they also work for the professional development and the stable paycheck. Yes individuals leaving military service are very well suited for many different types of employment, but they also don't get to quit when they want to, or elect not to go on deployment. A service-member is obligated to fill the needs of their service once they sign the contract. It is part of the Faustian deal.

Mostly I am a little bothered by the tone of your post. It reads like you are blaming the deceased. I can assure you that he did not willingly part from his family, and he did not willingly die. In much the same way that it is poor form to blame a rape victim, I think you will find most people who are associated with the armed forces will get their hackles up if when you imply that they casualties are senselessly throwing their lives away, and that they should have known better than to enlist.

There is much more to the military than the current middle eastern adventures. You are protected by the armed forces, and your national best interests are being served. This can and does happen independent of our rather poorly conceived land wars in Asia.
 
2012-04-23 06:11:39 AM  

Tatsuma: Evil Kirk vs Bad Ash: fark it. I really don't think you understand how the military works

This. We need mature leaders in the military. How is that celibate leadership thing working out for the Catholic church? Also, if we are going to have a huge scandal about service-members visiting prostitutes, we really are not culturally ready to have an all single military!


Also I am hearing a shiatload of planes over Jerusalem right now/i>

I will be Really pissed off if you guys drag us into Iran.
 
2012-04-23 06:18:06 AM  

doglover: Ambivalence: There's no good way to tell someone.

Exactly.

But personally I'd rather get the news ASAP rather than suddenly have a guy in dress uniform show up at the house. When Sgt Sorryforyouloss shows up in movies and such, all I can think is "I totally would not want to find out that way for a member of my family."


Disagree. There is value in ritual. Having actual people there, who you can lean on, scream at, cry with is valuable. There is a commodity of respect involved in showing up in person.

It won't make things "all better". You can't kiss the boo-boo and make it go away. But you do what you can.
 
2012-04-23 06:22:00 AM  

The WindowLicker: I will be Really pissed off if you guys drag us into Iran.


the notion that the american drum-beating with iran has anything to do with israel is laughable, albeit a dream come true for anti-semites who want to blame israel for every spilt drop of blood in the world...
 
2012-04-23 06:24:01 AM  

Tatsuma: 1. She wasn't informed of her husband's death by the Army through Facebook
2. She wasn't informed of her husband's death through Facebook
3. She wasn't informed of her husband's death by the Army
4. She was the only one it happened to


so I suppose the fail tag is in relation to either subby's poor reading skills, or his blatant manipulation of facts for the sake of one more greenlight?

fark you.


Yep.
 
2012-04-23 06:25:55 AM  

wademh: There is value in ritual. Having actual people there, who you can lean on, scream at, cry with is valuable. There is a commodity of respect involved in showing up in person.

It won't make things "all better". You can't kiss the boo-boo and make it go away. But you do what you can.


This also!

While I was stationed in a very small unit overseas, someone from my branch was killed in action. His next of kin lived in the country that we were stationed in. My boss at the time was instructed to drop everything, put on his dress uniform, and drive 6 hours to go notify the family in person.

The military takes it seriously. You take car of your own. It is one of the differences between this job, and a job in the civilian world. I would not tolerate half the BS I put up with on a daily basis, if I was just working for a salary.
 
2012-04-23 06:27:02 AM  

proteus_b: the notion that the american drum-beating with iran has anything to do with israel is laughable, albeit a dream come true for anti-semites who want to blame israel for every spilt drop of blood in the world...


Are you a crazy person?
 
2012-04-23 06:31:01 AM  
One of the problems has to do with the speed of light and the difficulties involved in trying to exceed it. You can't. Nothing travels faster than the speed of light with the possible exception of bad news, which obeys its own special laws. The Hingefreel people of Arkintoofle Minor did try to build spaceships that were powered by bad news but they didn't work particularly well and were so extremely unwelcome whenever they arrived anywhere that there wasn't really any point in being there.
 
Skr
2012-04-23 06:34:40 AM  
They can do holograms now, so you can prerecord your own "Sorry honey, I only detect landmines 99.9% of the time" message.

Hell to lose a loved one, though I suppose the method of notice doesn't make them any less dead.
 
2012-04-23 06:39:17 AM  

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: If you love your country more than your family, why have one?


You have a fundamental difference in thinking with the career military person who serves in spite of having a family. Please, hear me out:

You feel that nothing should drag you away from your family, especially not fighting, and your sense of duty says that you should be protecting your family at home. Correct?

The military person feels that it is their duty to leave to fight to protect their family and others', so that other people don't have to leave their families. Basically, their sense of duty is to fight so that you don't have to.

It isn't that they love their country more than their family. They love their family and see protecting their country as the best way to protect their family.
 
2012-04-23 06:39:49 AM  

OriginalReaper: On deployment (at least when I was out there in 2010-2011) anytime there was a casualty, especially a fatality, there was a communication blackout. It would last for days.

We weren't specifically told not to notify next of kin about losses but I don't even see how it was possible. It would take some rank's weight to contact the states during blackouts.


second this.
 
2012-04-23 06:40:53 AM  

The WindowLicker: Are you a crazy person?


yes, apparently. u.s. involvement in the middle east is all about perpetuating some tiny jew state, and has absolutely nothing to do with oil. this is why we invaded iraq in 1991 and 2002. this is why we invaded afghanistan in 2001. this is why we overthrew the iranian government in 1956. because of the jews.
 
2012-04-23 06:41:12 AM  

wademh: There is value in ritual. Having actual people there, who you can lean on, scream at, cry with is valuable. There is a commodity of respect involved in showing up in person.


True.

But personally I don't want to hear such news from strangers. Much rather hear it from people I know first.
 
2012-04-23 06:42:06 AM  
Violets are blue
Roses are red
I'm sorry to tell you
Your husband is dead
 
2012-04-23 06:46:50 AM  

The WindowLicker:

...While the risk violent death is higher in the military, there are many reasons to serve. People serve for patriotic and altruistic reasons, but they also work for the professional development and the stable paycheck. Yes individuals leaving military service are very well suited for many different types of employment, but they also don't get to quit when they want to, or elect not to go on deployment. A service-member is obligated to fill the needs of their service once they sign the contract. It is part of the Faustian deal.

Mostly I am a little bothered by the tone of your post. It reads like you are blaming the deceased. I can assure you that he did not willingly part from his family, and he did not willingly die. In much the same way that it is poor form to blame a rape victim, I think you will find most people who are associated with the armed forces will get their hackles up if when you imply that they casualties are senselessly throwing their lives away, and that they should have known better than to enlist.


Worth repeating... a few dozen times.
 
2012-04-23 06:51:53 AM  

proteus_b: yes, apparently. u.s. involvement in the middle east is all about perpetuating some tiny jew state, and has absolutely nothing to do with oil. this is why we invaded iraq in 1991 and 2002. this is why we invaded afghanistan in 2001. this is why we overthrew the iranian government in 1956. because of the jews.


I think you are setting up some sort of mentally under-developed straw-man argument, but I will bite.

Israel is very small and very close to Iran. Israel has had a few shooting wars with *everyone* in the middle east. They can't afford to take the risk that Iran will obtain nuclear weapons. After all, it will only take one or two to cripple their country.

The US is a much larger nation, with many more cities and a distributed economic base. We are also outside the range of Iran's current missile technology. While the US would feel some threat from a nuclear armed Iran, it is not a threat to the very existence of the US.

It would take a very biased person to look at the current situation with Iran and not realize that Israel and her supporters are the prime driving force pushing for the military option sooner rather than later. It makes sense, and it is in Israel's best interests to prevent a nuclear armed Iran at all costs, but it is not in the better interests of the United States.

I can understand that it would be better for Israel if they could convince the US to contribute to a military attack on Iran, but my understanding does not lead me to place Israel's national interests above the interests of my own country.
 
2012-04-23 06:59:53 AM  
One more reason as to why people that use facebook suck.
 
2012-04-23 07:23:33 AM  
During my brother's first deployment I still lived at home and worked nights so I was home alone during the day. I lost lots of sleep to ringing doorbells. Whether it was real life UPS guy delivering a package or in my dreams where there was a man in dress blues on the other side of the door.

There is no good way. And Id really like to know how that person got around the blackout.
 
2012-04-23 07:26:49 AM  

ryanecandyce: OriginalReaper: On deployment (at least when I was out there in 2010-2011) anytime there was a casualty, especially a fatality, there was a communication blackout. It would last for days.

We weren't specifically told not to notify next of kin about losses but I don't even see how it was possible. It would take some rank's weight to contact the states during blackouts.

second this.


I was in a signal unit, and it my job to enforce those comms blackouts when a fatality occurred. They weren't absolute. Any mission-essential phones that needed to call stateside were left up, like PAO, JAG, brigade commanders and above, etc. Also, we never blacked out our own phones. No one was watching the watchers.
 
2012-04-23 07:37:27 AM  

Tatsuma: 1. She wasn't informed of her husband's death by the Army through Facebook
2. She wasn't informed of her husband's death through Facebook
3. She wasn't informed of her husband's death by the Army
4. She was the only one it happened to


so I suppose the fail tag is in relation to either subby's poor reading skills, or his blatant manipulation of facts for the sake of one more greenlight?

fark you.


One day drew is going to wake up and wonder why everyone left for reddit.
 
2012-04-23 07:42:50 AM  
I got some good news and some bad news:
Guess who's husband will be back from deployment earlier than you thought.
Okay. There really isn't any good news.
 
2012-04-23 07:52:29 AM  

Harry Freakstorm: I got some good news and some bad news:
Guess who's husband will be back from deployment earlier than you thought.
Okay. There really isn't any good news.


There's a joke here about announcing a ships' early return while in a crowded bar in a Navy town.
 
2012-04-23 07:53:38 AM  

Britney Spear's Speculum: Your husband is on the roof


With the cat?
 
2012-04-23 07:55:40 AM  
LOL yer huzbnds ded

Kthxbye

Like | Comment | Share
 
2012-04-23 08:05:29 AM  

Crudbucket: ryanecandyce: OriginalReaper: On deployment (at least when I was out there in 2010-2011) anytime there was a casualty, especially a fatality, there was a communication blackout. It would last for days.

We weren't specifically told not to notify next of kin about losses but I don't even see how it was possible. It would take some rank's weight to contact the states during blackouts.

second this.

I was in a signal unit, and it my job to enforce those comms blackouts when a fatality occurred. They weren't absolute. Any mission-essential phones that needed to call stateside were left up, like PAO, JAG, brigade commanders and above, etc. Also, we never blacked out our own phones. No one was watching the watchers.


But if your entire unit has a communications blackout, for days, the families back home will know exactly what that means. And it will be every family left wondering, for days, if this time it is their loved ones who died. Seems like there would be a better way.
 
2012-04-23 08:15:41 AM  

Evil Kirk vs Bad Ash: fark it. Three previous farking tours, two daughters, and an eleven week old wife. Why do people in the military care so little about their families that they do this shiat? This isn't a troll, this is a god damn honest question. Single guys who want to go and fark things up, that I understand. But at what point does your family become more important than another Russian roulette spin?


www.deviantart.com
 
2012-04-23 08:15:44 AM  
Like
 
2012-04-23 08:18:33 AM  

Loud_Mouth_Soup: LOL yer huzbnds ded

Kthxbye

Like | Comment | Share


Hubby liked the comment

www.viralblog.com
 
2012-04-23 08:19:29 AM  

tasteless: But if your entire unit has a communications blackout, for days, the families back home will know exactly what that means. And it will be every family left wondering, for days, if this time it is their loved ones who died. Seems like there would be a better way.


Again, it depends on the Unit. We went into River City a number of times during deployment, but id did not always signify a death. For example: they will often cut off the phones before they brief everyone about a major operation. Further, usually it is the base that gets blacked out, as opposed to an individual unit.

If you are in a unit that is actually patrolling and out at fobs, you are already out of comm with the states for days on end. The families back at home just don't get word.
 
2012-04-23 08:23:09 AM  
This shiat absolutely pisses me off. Yes, there IS a protocol for a reason.

I remember not too long after my husband deployed the first time, I was with a gal and her FRG (Family Readiness Group), who went over what happens when a soldier dies downrange and how family is notified.

They are there to provide immediate support and make sure no one harms themselves or others. They're a shoulder to cry on, someone to help with the immediate reaction to the news, to steer the person towards any resources they'll need in the days to come to make arrangements and to help them cope.

Also, yes, it's hard having him leave for almost a year- I had to raise our first child on my own while he was downrange. Call that being absent or even abandonment if you like, but he's still a better father than most even when he's not physically here. Hell, my dad left the Navy and was less of a father.

Statistically, I'm more likely to lose him in a car accident here on post than to fighting downrange. Would you argue that everyone who drives shouldn't have families? Cops and firefighters? How about nobody gets to have a family, just in case they die suddenly. Get real.

It's not an ideal situation for everyone, no. However, right now it's ideal for us. It's a career he loves, and it gave us the resources, benefits and stable income that is hard to come by nowadays with the economy and all.

I hope that woman gets court-martialed to shiat.
 
2012-04-23 08:25:25 AM  
My father was a Marine Corps recruiter from 67-70 in the Denver area (also served two tours in Viet Nam, and one during the Korean War), and refused to take any boys who wanted to join as an infantryman. He'd tell them learn a skill, or go see the Army recruiter.

He was very proud that he never had to tell some mother or wife that her son or husband was killed. He had to make a few for men that were wounded, however. He still received a civilian Denver Chamber of Commerce Salesman's award for exceeding his quota by more than triple for three years running.

/RIP GYSGT Ray Carter
 
2012-04-23 08:29:41 AM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Well it's better than making the poor telegram guy do it.


Psssst Telegram guys? alllll gone. Long time now too
 
2012-04-23 08:29:45 AM  
This is awful.

When I deployed overseas we knew good and well that you NEVER mention that kind of stuff, EVER, until you know that the next-of-kin has been officially notified. In fact, the base would normally institute a media blackout - internet and phone service would be turned off, or closed down. There's not a shred of possibility that the people in this guy's unit, or whoever blabbed, didn't know about this and if they didn't then fark them anyways, they'd have to either be ignoring the procedure purposefully or their idiots enough that they shouldn't be out there. How horrible, there isn't a good way to hear this news but there is a "best" way, or least of evils.

You know what happened? What always happens: someone thought that the rules were meant for everyone but them, or that one small exception (of course, just for them) wouldn't be a problem. Court martial these farks and put them in jail for a little bit.

/veteran
//was always prepared for this moment, either for a comrade or myself, and if any of my friends' next of kin had been notified like this by someone.... I don't care if it was another soldier's wife, I'd come home and kick the shiat out of her - everyone should know that this isn't the right way to do it, and we all felt that way.
 
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