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(Forbes)   University of Florida cuts computer science department to save $1.7 million, adds $2 million to athletic department   (forbes.com) divider line 241
    More: Florida, computing  
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15830 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Apr 2012 at 12:54 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-23 02:34:26 AM

soupbone: buckler: Why don't we just set up athletics universities, and real universities?

Right, kick ass. Well, don't want to sound like a dick or nothin', but, ah... it says on your fark profile that you're farked up. Ah, you talk like a fig (NTTAWWT), and your shiat's all retarded. What I'd do, is just like... like... you know, like, you know what I mean, like...


[jack_chick]

HAW HAW!

[/jack_chick]
 
2012-04-23 02:36:11 AM

Christian Bale: Anyone know what's really going on here?

I assume cutting Comp Sci was calling Scott's bluff, to show him: you cut our budget, here's where we have to cut--to cause an outcry?

Because I can't imagine that cut was a serious response to the situation. It had to be a "card" they were playing.

Right?


I can see that. Scott was saying months ago they needed to get rid of liberal arts and focus on real technology anyway. This could be the university cutting off its nose to spite his Luthor face.
 
2012-04-23 02:39:40 AM
I've never met any UF CS grads, so I don't know immediately if this is a good thing or a bad thing.

We desperately need more quality programmers in this country, so this seems like a colossal failure.
 
2012-04-23 02:46:21 AM
The more I think about it, the more I wonder if the whole university budget slashing thing is at least in part due to resentment from the current crop of tea party lawmakers. UF (and to a lesser extent, FSU) alumni have historically had a stranglehold on control of politics in the state and a lot of the political wannabe types who didn't get into those schools carry a chip on their shoulder against those who could (especially if we're talking about the lawyers who could only manage to get into Stetson). Those people who have been carrying a chip on their shoulder about not going to UF or FSU got into office on waves of tea party resentment and promptly went about cutting UF and FSU's funds while turning around and giving a bunch of money to spin off USF Polytechnic into its own separate school.

In the end, I don't think this is about athletics, I think this is about the fact that Rick Scott and the tea partiers in the legislature have an inferiority complex about their own backgrounds and are taking it out on the state's flagship university.
 
2012-04-23 02:48:48 AM
Given the nerd jihad against intellectual property (eliminate all patents! copyrights is evil!), perhaps the university is being pragmatic. Universities traditionally made money out of licensing patents & nerds are always arguing that you shouldn't be able to patent IT stuff. Why pour money into a hole where the profits are accumulated by outfits that appropriate the ideas of others like Google when you can get real money out of an athletics program?
 
2012-04-23 02:50:16 AM
Stupid Republicans. Biology is the worst enemy of Christianity, not computer science. You can't force social change by burning books if you can't read to know which books to burn.
 
2012-04-23 02:52:37 AM

fusillade762: Dammit! The one time I try to be snarky and I end up picking on a disabled person. Apologies.


HA!

It's is an unfair trump card for me to use.

I would rather my deficiencies to be undetected without any regard to my disability. Any constructive criticism you give and any in the future would be greatly welcomed.

You should see my English 3 years ago - it's completely atrocious. If anything, your 'picking' on me is actually helpful.
 
2012-04-23 02:55:30 AM

Smackledorfer: Only if we assume all donations to the schools would be the same if it weren't for the sports. That is an awfully big assumption.


From the same article:

"The money-pit aspect of big collegiate sports occurs despite the flow of booster contributions to "athletic foundations" and similar accounts. Booster funds not only fail to make collegiate sports self-sustaining, they may harm the colleges overall -- since many alumni and boosters who might donate to the general endowment or the scholarship campaign of Maryland or Miami or Wisconsin donate instead to the booster organizations. Over the years, billionaire T. Boone Pickens has donated nearly $500 million to Oklahoma State, his alma mater -- but most of the money has gone to athletics, not academics. The donation that UNC-Charlotte requires, in addition to the PSL fee? It goes to the booster fund, not to academics. At many colleges and universities, athletic programs cannibalize donations that might have gone to education."

If someone is donating to a school because of athletics, that money is more than likely going to be used solely for athletics anyway. Besides, your response smacks of the broken window fallacy given that the vast majority of schools are already losing money by having athletic departments.
 
2012-04-23 03:00:28 AM

Confabulat: I can see that. Scott was saying months ago they needed to get rid of liberal arts and focus on real technology anyway. This could be the university cutting off its nose to spite his Luthor face.


Very possible, though I know nothing about Florida politics. When the US Congress gets in a tiff and the government shuts down, the agencies always make sure that all the tourist attractions, national parks, etc are closed. It's called Washington Monument Syndrome. They do it to get the public mad and force Congress to pass a budget.
 
2012-04-23 03:00:52 AM

narkor: Given the nerd jihad against intellectual property (eliminate all patents! copyrights is evil!), perhaps the university is being pragmatic. Universities traditionally made money out of licensing patents & nerds are always arguing that you shouldn't be able to patent IT stuff. Why pour money into a hole where the profits are accumulated by outfits that appropriate the ideas of others like Google when you can get real money out of an athletics program?


Oh, trolling much are we?
 
2012-04-23 03:01:46 AM
So, in other words, they only increased their athletic budget by a paltry 3 million?
 
2012-04-23 03:02:42 AM
Er, .3 million that is.

If only my school had spent more on education?
 
2012-04-23 03:20:34 AM

scalpod: So, in other words, they only increased their athletic budget by a paltry 3 million?


Hardly keeps up with inflation, you know.
 
2012-04-23 03:23:20 AM
Just to be clear about who donates money to alma maters...

Melinda Gates, 209M$+ to Duke since 1998

Seriously, I'd ask how dumb you can get, but it's Florida so that's anyone's guess. Can someone find me an athlete who gave anything close to as much to any philanthropic cause? Anyone? Here's a hint, there aren't any. By the time football players are washed up, they've put all their earnings into hookers and coke.

Just damn man, wtf is up with the stupid people ruining the country? I daresay Florida is looking to keep its synonym for idiot firmly in place.
 
2012-04-23 03:25:15 AM
The day is coming, and probably not that far off, when we'll have to start sending our kids abroad for a decent college education. You know why? Because America has quit giving a shiat about STEM or whatever the look-we-really-do-care term of the day is.

Back during the Cold War we decided it was time to get our shiat together and beat the USSR. We couldn't do it on manpower or horsepower alone -- we had to get smart fast. Government and the defense industry funded the best and brightest and the result was forty years or so of leadership in technical fields, men on the moon, all that great, world-changing stuff that we look back on and wish we could have again.

But starting around 1980 or so, the culture wars really started in earnest, and the people who traditionally believed in big defense budgets (the Republicans) were suddenly also the people who were suspicious of all those eggheads again. For awhile they were able to coast on the residual technical momentum from the golden age, but around the mid-90s things really started to fall apart. Compare Apollo in the 1960s and the Voyager and Viking missions in the 1970s and 1980s to the string of aborted, failed and ignored missions from 2000 on. We couldn't get our own space station Freedom up, so we had to collaborate with other countries on the ISS. Now we can't get our astronauts to the space station we don't own without more help.

I don't think that has really sunk in for people yet. As of the landing of Discovery several months ago, we are not currently a spacefaring nation. We went from a late start to winning the "space race" to pissing it all away, because America doesn't care about that kind of stuff any more. We just don't. And I can't even really blame our elected leaders, because I can see they're just putting it where their constituents tell them to on the priority list.

I just took the family to visit the Udvar-Hazy Annex of the Smithsonian Air and Space museum. They have an SR-71 Blackbird there. It's a cool plane -- but it's a museum piece now. The plane it was supposed to help replace, the U-2, is not in the museum -- in fact it's still in active service. It's still in active service because we haven't come up with anything that can replace it since it was put in service in the 1950s. The SR-71 was likewise unretired for awhile because its successors (satellites and drones) couldn't fill the role they were supposed to, when they were needed.

We're flying almost 60-year-old spy plane designs because they can do things nothing designed since then can do. We have to rent cabin space from the country that was the reason we went into space in the first place. And now there's a full-on war against education by a large coalition of ideologues with the tacit or explicit support of a large part of the citizenry. You can't go much further down this road before somebody like Canada just walks in and takes over because "why the hell not? None of their technology is worth a damn any more, it'd be stupid to let that kind of opportunity just sit there and take a chance they'll wake up and grow a functioning high-tech industry again."
 
2012-04-23 03:25:44 AM
I have met quite a few football fans and IT professionals in my time. Im not 100% convinced that the wrong decision was made here.
 
2012-04-23 03:32:48 AM

Urinal Cake Mix: Let's be honest: it's not like anything good has ever come out of the state of Florida anyway. Who cares if their colleges suck too?


This came out of Florida. © Me

i1177.photobucket.com
 
2012-04-23 03:36:53 AM

Ambivalence: Sports programs make money for a university. Nerds, not so much.


Nerds in general actually make the majority of money for most Universities, the school takes between 1/2 and 2/3 of any research grant to subsidize undergrads and administration, neither of which produce any money whatsoever (yes, tuition is high for an unemployed teenager, no, it doesn't really cover the entire cost of teaching you). And that 1/2 is massively larger than athletic program income if you aren't UT Austin, OU, or USC (or maybe Florida).

Computer Science specifically doesn't pull much research funding nowadays, though. Frankly there's not really a whole lot of first-principles work to be done with software anymore, it's on the verge of not really meriting its own academic category at all and getting folded into various other departments in most places. There are almost no non-cross-disciplinary CS projects anymore.
 
2012-04-23 03:39:07 AM
FTA: Let's get this straight: in the midst of a technology revolution, with a shortage of engineers and computer scientists...

There is no shortage of engineers and computer scientists. Or there is a shortage just like there's a shortage of elite players in professional sports. Those that hire engineers and computer scientists want miracleworkers that are willing to work for peanuts.
 
2012-04-23 03:45:08 AM

Kensey: the U-2, is not in the museum -- in fact it's still in active service. It's still in active service because we haven't come up with anything that can replace it since it was put in service in the 1950s.


Nonsense. Satellites can do everything the U2 can and then some. The U2 was essentially obsolete as a spy plane at the time Gary Powers got shot down in one.

The U2 still gets used but not as a reconnaissance plane. It's doing scientific research.
 
2012-04-23 03:46:01 AM
submitted this with the headline "stay poor, deep south"

/i still like mine better
 
2012-04-23 03:53:16 AM

KrmtDfrog: submitted this with the headline "stay poor, deep south"

/i still like mine better


Except again, you missed the Deep South by several hundred miles. The Florida peninsula is not the Deep South.
 
2012-04-23 03:54:10 AM

Befuddled: FTA: Let's get this straight: in the midst of a technology revolution, with a shortage of engineers and computer scientists...

There is no shortage of engineers and computer scientists. Or there is a shortage just like there's a shortage of elite players in professional sports. Those that hire engineers and computer scientists want miracleworkers that are willing to work for peanuts.


I'm sorry you feel so bad about being treated like literally every other tech profession on the planet since Ug's boss was getting on his ass about the wheel project being behind schedule and implied that he might be making a smoke-signal to cro magnon resources if there wasn't more progress soon.
 
2012-04-23 03:55:24 AM
The University of Florida hasn't seen cuts like this since Danny Rolling came to town...

/now I feel horrible...
//slaps self
 
2012-04-23 04:04:25 AM

Befuddled: Kensey: the U-2, is not in the museum -- in fact it's still in active service. It's still in active service bo the scene.ecause we haven't come up with anything that can replace it since it was put in service in the 1950s.

Nonsense. Satellites can do everything the U2 can Only not as fast to the target and then some. The U2 was essentially obsolete as a spy plane at the time Gary Powers got shot down in one. No

The U2 still gets used but not as a reconnaissance plane. It's doing scientific research.

No, it is still being used for recon. Scheduled to be phased out by 2015 but most likely will be extended.

From USA Today "The Obama administration has nearly doubled its request to fund the 32-airplane fleet to $91 million to keep the U-2 aloft. The 80 Air Force pilots qualified to fly the tricky-to-handle plane can expect to continue their spy missions until 2015."
 
2012-04-23 04:10:17 AM
Makes sense. If they did not cut the CSC department they would have been spending $3.7 million for both CSC and PE. But, by cutting the CSC department they are clearly saving $1.7 million!

Wow, I have no idea how I was able to type that with a straight face.
 
2012-04-23 04:13:24 AM

Befuddled: Kensey: the U-2, is not in the museum -- in fact it's still in active service. It's still in active service because we haven't come up with anything that can replace it since it was put in service in the 1950s.

Nonsense. Satellites can do everything the U2 can and then some. The U2 was essentially obsolete as a spy plane at the time Gary Powers got shot down in one.


Nope. Satellites can't be retasked quick enough. In the time it takes to wait for a satellite to make a pass (or use one's limited maneuvering fuel to reposition it), a U-2 can get in and out and the film can be in the analysts' hands. Also, that imagery will be higher quality because it will be shot from much closer to the ground.

It's still very much in use for intel activities, although it is finally starting to look like it can be retired in the not-terribly-distant future since the Global Hawks that were supposed to start replacing it a decade ago are finally getting to be up to the task... maybe... we think. Oops, just kidding! We're actually canceling the Global Hawks and keeping the U-2's around till 2023, because "'[the Global Hawk] is good at long-endurance flight with its so-so sensors,' the source said. 'They are currently and will continue to be well below par.' ...Additionally, the Global Hawk doesn't have the U-2 Optical Bar Camera, which creates 6-foot-long wet-film images of the ground."

Third Fourth Fifth time's the charm?
 
2012-04-23 04:20:00 AM

wademh: The very worst programmers have comp. sci. degrees. Writing code is not hard. Comp. sci degrees don't teach practical problem solving, they teach theory and gadgetry. I pick a physicist who can write code over a comp. sci. grad everytime with zero regrets.

Now if you want to build up a team of 20+ people who have to all work together on a large project in a highly collaborative fashion, you want your comp. sci. grad. However, also hire one good programming physicist to write a working prototype that they can all ridicule and spend the 2 years trying to replicate the functionality that one guy can produce in 6 months.


I tend to disagree, working in a software company (one that has both CS and non-CS people writing code) and seeing the quality of code written by various individuals. There are certainly overlap - the top of the non-CS curve is higher than the bottom of the CS-curve, but the CS as a whole are ahead.

You're correct in that writing code by itself is not hard. Neither is writing English - your average third grader can do it. However, that hardly means your average third grader could write a great novel. Writing code is only the first of many things one needs to know to actually write good code. Or to quote the Vorlon, "A stroke of the brush does not guarantee art from the bristles".

The design is really far more important than the coding, and much harder to pick up. A poorly designed project is a pestilence upon your code base until the end of time (or until some poor sap rips it out and rewrites it). That's where the real art in programming lies, and it makes the difference between code that works when it's written but breaks every time it's so much as looked at versus code that withstands the test of time robustly.
 
2012-04-23 04:52:02 AM

Befuddled: Kensey: the U-2, is not in the museum -- in fact it's still in active service. It's still in active service because we haven't come up with anything that can replace it since it was put in service in the 1950s.

Nonsense. Satellites can do everything the U2 can and then some. The U2 was essentially obsolete as a spy plane at the time Gary Powers got shot down in one.

The U2 still gets used but not as a reconnaissance plane. It's doing scientific research.


My cousin, who finished U2 pilot training semi-recently, is getting a kick out of your comment.
 
2012-04-23 05:01:04 AM

Corporate Self: Confabulat: cmb53208: Florida is little more than a giant nursing home where geezers from all over go to wait to die. And people who get Comp. Sci. degrees don't want to work in retirement communities or wear Mickey Mouse costumes in 90-degree heat. Sadly, I'm not at all surprised this happened.

Have you ever BEEN to Florida? That joke hasn't been relevant since the early 1980s.

I agree. Now its now a melting pot of senior, idiots, and assholes. who keep moving here from up North.


FTFY

soupbone: Ambivalence

Don't worry, scrote. There are plenty of 'tards out there living really kick-ass lives.


i445.photobucket.com
 
2012-04-23 05:01:07 AM
Oh terrific. Does anyone know how FIT works in relation to the other Florida schools? I thought it was private and potentially not affected by some of the a$$-hattery. I'm supposed to start there this fall in Oceanography and wanted to take a bunch of CS courses. I think I'll be ok but Im going to be there for 4 years, a lot can happen.

/Have to go where the people are and my advisor rocks!
 
2012-04-23 05:11:17 AM

Sim Tree: All the non-US citizens work on civilian projects while all the US citizens work for military projects. And they still don't have enough.


Personally, I really LIKE this, because it keeps me and my fellow co-workers in high demand.

And it's not just the aerospace guys that have to do this - SAIC is split into "normal" and "secure" groups the same way, with all the Indian and Russian guys over on the non-clearance stuff and the ex-military EEs on the cleared side.
 
2012-04-23 05:18:07 AM

IronTom: What has happened to our universities Republican Party? It is like they've been taken over by idiots or people who don't like America.


FTFY

/I think this is it for me, really. To live in a place where there are enough people who thought it was a good idea to vote for Rick Scott, well, it makes me want to puke whenever I think about it. House is for sale.
 
2012-04-23 05:18:53 AM

GoSurfing: This came out of Florida


Just more proof. A godzillion dollar boondoggle that never accomplished jack squat, and now is a museum piece.
 
2012-04-23 05:21:16 AM

Confabulat: KrmtDfrog: submitted this with the headline "stay poor, deep south"

/i still like mine better

Except again, you missed the Deep South by several hundred miles. The Florida peninsula is not the Deep South.


You are just as wrong as you can be. Except South Florida, of course, which is either Caribbean or Latin America depending on your point of view.

The norther you go in Floriduh, the Souther you are.
 
2012-04-23 05:29:33 AM

Cinletharwi: Befuddled: Kensey: the U-2, is not in the museum -- in fact it's still in active service. It's still in active service because we haven't come up with anything that can replace it since it was put in service in the 1950s.

Nonsense. Satellites can do everything the U2 can and then some. The U2 was essentially obsolete as a spy plane at the time Gary Powers got shot down in one.

The U2 still gets used but not as a reconnaissance plane. It's doing scientific research.

My cousin, who finished U2 pilot training semi-recently, is getting a kick out of your comment.


I know I'm paranoid, but I would never have shared that (your cousin finishing u2 pilot training)...and might actually be a bigger deal than you think. This is public, after all.

SevenizGud: GoSurfing: This came out of Florida

Just more proof. A godzillion dollar boondoggle that never accomplished jack squat, and now is a museum piece.


fark off dolt.
 
2012-04-23 05:30:19 AM

fusillade762: CrispFlows: fusillade762: CrispFlows: Funny, My university did the oppisite, they cut athletic classes including muay thai and kenpo. All the traditionals like spirit and track is preserved.

The rest of the funding went to the brand new science building.

My college got the right priorities.

Did they also abolish the English Department?

Drunk, deaf and used to closed captioning typically reserved for 9th graders. I pretty much had to teach english grammar to myself since most of the teachers I had believed that deaf people would not understand english. To their credit I do understand their reasoning, since we as the deaf is kinda farked and the english is a mish mash of german/romanic rules and words.

Dammit! The one time I try to be snarky and I end up picking on a disabled person. Apologies.


I once laid into a grocery-store cashier who was getting everything wrong. Wasn't paying attention, confused the produce, just was having a miserable time. I berated her, loudly, and when a manager came over to fix the problem, she stepped back from the register....
...and that was when I saw she was eight months pregnant.
 
2012-04-23 05:44:07 AM

GoSurfing: Cinletharwi: Befuddled: Kensey: the U-2, is not in the museum -- in fact it's still in active service. It's still in active service because we haven't come up with anything that can replace it since it was put in service in the 1950s.

Nonsense. Satellites can do everything the U2 can and then some. The U2 was essentially obsolete as a spy plane at the time Gary Powers got shot down in one.

The U2 still gets used but not as a reconnaissance plane. It's doing scientific research.

My cousin, who finished U2 pilot training semi-recently, is getting a kick out of your comment.

I know I'm paranoid, but I would never have shared that (your cousin finishing u2 pilot training)...and might actually be a bigger deal than you think. This is public, after all.

SevenizGud: GoSurfing: This came out of Florida

Just more proof. A godzillion dollar boondoggle that never accomplished jack squat, and now is a museum piece.

fark off dolt.


this
 
2012-04-23 05:59:44 AM
To be fair, does anyone really go to the University of Florida to get an education?
 
2012-04-23 06:11:05 AM

Corporate Self: Being the stereotypical neanderthal jock gives you all the skills you need to run a modern business. In today business world, being an arrogant ignorant bully is an asset.


I would argue with you if I could.
 
2012-04-23 06:19:51 AM
A university can run a computer science department on a budget of $1.7 million?
 
2012-04-23 06:20:04 AM

GoSurfing: Cinletharwi: Befuddled: Kensey: the U-2, is not in the museum -- in fact it's still in active service. It's still in active service because we haven't come up with anything that can replace it since it was put in service in the 1950s.

Nonsense. Satellites can do everything the U2 can and then some. The U2 was essentially obsolete as a spy plane at the time Gary Powers got shot down in one.

The U2 still gets used but not as a reconnaissance plane. It's doing scientific research.

My cousin, who finished U2 pilot training semi-recently, is getting a kick out of your comment.

I know I'm paranoid, but I would never have shared that (your cousin finishing u2 pilot training)...and might actually be a bigger deal than you think. This is public, after all.

SevenizGud: GoSurfing: This came out of Florida

Just more proof. A godzillion dollar boondoggle that never accomplished jack squat, and now is a museum piece.

fark off dolt.


"Space exploration is a godzillion-dollar boondoggle that will never accomplish schitt."

I hardly know what to say to that. Perhaps these smart people can explain it better than I can.
 
2012-04-23 06:24:55 AM

IronTom: What has happened to our universities? It is like they've been taken over by idiots or people who don't like America.


No, they've discovered the miracle of making money under the guise of being "not for profit". You know, like churches.
 
2012-04-23 06:27:31 AM
I also agree that i don't see a lot of incentives to be an undergrad CS major..Not when projects for
newbie programmers are shipped off shore to be done. Graduate work in CS though is a different story.
As someone said above, the algorithm work and development stuff is in demand.

What I find funny about that is that the algorithm and mathematical work is what should be shunted
off to India and the creative programming should be done here. In my experience with Indian students,
they are amazing at doing complex math, but the creative and disciplined side needed for programming
isn't as well ingrained. That just seems to be a cultural and learning style difference between us.
 
2012-04-23 06:27:45 AM
Hopefully, we can get rid of this useless governor in a couple years. Rick Scott barely won the election in 2010, and even that was an accident of running at the height of the Tea Party's popularity. Anybody who could think for just one second voted for the other candidate.
 
2012-04-23 06:38:44 AM
UF appears to be all about sports, not education, looking in from the outside. The local TV stations devote 10 minutes of every newscast to UF sports. Sports seems to be the lifeblood of the university.

But, they are an outstanding agricultural land grant university. They should tout this more than sports but they don't. I think it is a big mistake to whittle down computer sciences. It just doesn't make sense.
 
2012-04-23 06:44:43 AM

ghare: Confabulat: KrmtDfrog: submitted this with the headline "stay poor, deep south"

/i still like mine better

Except again, you missed the Deep South by several hundred miles. The Florida peninsula is not the Deep South.

You are just as wrong as you can be. Except South Florida, of course, which is either Caribbean or Latin America depending on your point of view.

The norther you go in Floriduh, the Souther you are.


That was the point I was making. The South ends at Gainesville, but the Deep South is waaay up north from there.
 
2012-04-23 06:45:56 AM
And I suppose there's no hillbillies in Pennsylvania or Ohio?
 
2012-04-23 06:46:52 AM
Ok, I'll give you Polk County, if you'll take it.
 
2012-04-23 07:10:45 AM
Was it announced on the same day? That's what happened last week at my university when they announced a tuition raise and a raise for the football coach
 
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