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    More: Obvious, world peace, Lakers, James Harden, OKC, flagrant foul, fast breaks, peace, Oklahoma City's Serge Ibaka  
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3683 clicks; posted to Sports » on 22 Apr 2012 at 11:31 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-23 12:30:27 PM  

IAmRight: There are Lakers fans in here?


I'm a Laker fan.

IAmRight: Slow To Return: Isn't this Artest's 2nd incident in under a year?

It's his only flagrant of the year...what else did he do?


I think he's referring to the elbow to Barea in the playoffs last year.
 
2012-04-23 12:31:49 PM  

fonebone77:

This might be a bit of special pleading, but the ratings were high because of Jordan imo. Jordan was the NBA's Tiger. People came to the sport just because of him. I specifically said late 90's because thats when the NBA started tanking. Late 90's is also when Jordan was winding down so some of the blame could obviously go there too.


That may be true for the 90's but Jordan was not Jordan in the 80's. It was for the most part Magic and Bird carrying the 80's. But, what you said there actually goes to my point. It doesn't really matter if their are "thugs" in the game, and what the level of physical/violent play. Superstar make the league interesting, everything else is gravy.
 
2012-04-23 12:32:04 PM  

DamnYankees: clearly intentional and unacceptable.


There are people on the sports tab, who, while I don't always agree with them, I at least respect their opinions. You've always been one of them. However, in this case, I can't even respect your opinion that this wasn't intentional.
 
2012-04-23 12:32:48 PM  

IAmRight: Slow To Return: Isn't this Artest's 2nd incident in under a year?

It's his only flagrant of the year...what else did he do?


Think calendar year, not NBA year....
 
2012-04-23 12:33:56 PM  

DamnYankees: I think he's referring to the elbow to Barea in the playoffs last year.


The "accidental clothesline" incident, yes.
 
2012-04-23 12:35:03 PM  

Slow To Return: DamnYankees: clearly intentional and unacceptable.

There are people on the sports tab, who, while I don't always agree with them, I at least respect their opinions. You've always been one of them. However, in this case, I can't even respect your opinion that this wasn't intentional.


I guess the question is, what was the intentional part? Did he intentionally try to make contact with Harden? Maybe, but that happens every play in basketball. Was he trying to shove the guy away with his elbow? Maybe, and that's a foul. Was he trying to intentionally break his jaw? I highly doubt it. There's just no reason to think he would do that.
 
2012-04-23 12:35:42 PM  

MensRea: Good takedown of Artest from Deadspin:


It's totally wrong. Artest is legitimately mentally ill. Everything goes fuzzy and stuff happens. He's not attention whoring, he's Lenny from Of Mice and Men.

The problem with that is that I don't think he's really going to learn from his mistakes because I don't think he's really capable of it.
 
2012-04-23 12:37:34 PM  

DamnYankees: Oh, so then its entirely irrelevant to what happened to Artest. Good to know.



I wouldn't say it's irrelevant (I'd be way more pissed if someone hucked something at me that could do real damage, even if they missed), but I see your point. Players have been struck with objects from the stands before...just because Artest got wet at the same time does not make his resulting actions any more normal or reasonable.
 
2012-04-23 12:38:37 PM  

guestguy: Players have been struck with objects from the stands before


Ok, please cite that. I'm not aware of this happening to an NBA player.
 
2012-04-23 12:40:25 PM  

DamnYankees: I guess the question is, what was the intentional part? Did he intentionally try to make contact with Harden? Maybe, but that happens every play in basketball. Was he trying to shove the guy away with his elbow? Maybe, and that's a foul. Was he trying to intentionally break his jaw? I highly doubt it. There's just no reason to think he would do that.


So your stance is that it was a "crime of passion" and not "premeditated murder" and that that somehow makes it better?

Sure, ok, I'll roll with that.
 
2012-04-23 12:41:23 PM  

DamnYankees: I'm a Laker fan.


right right right, I remember now. Colts, too, right? NFL fan allegiances are more fresh in my mind. I was just trying to make the point that many of us saying it's not the huge thing it's being made out to be aren't Lakers fans...some of us don't even like the Lakers.

DamnYankees: I think he's referring to the elbow to Barea in the playoffs last year.


Ah, so they play by calendar year rules when they can. The foul on Barea is a case of being caught going the wrong way and the fact that Barea is a midget. I doubt that, as they're going down 2-0 in a series, they were "on the verge of being swept" like the other person was saying. Also, that's not an elbow, that's a hand to the face. How the hell did anyone think that was an elbow?

My favorite part of that is that Barea's force causes him to twist enough that he knees Lamar Odom in the sack.
 
2012-04-23 12:43:10 PM  

IAmRight: Ah, so they play by calendar year rules when they can. The foul on Barea is a case of being caught going the wrong way and the fact that Barea is a midget. I doubt that, as they're going down 2-0 in a series, they were "on the verge of being swept" like the other person was saying. Also, that's not an elbow, that's a hand to the face. How the hell did anyone think that was an elbow?


LOL wut? Well, at least I know you're not even bothering to read my posts.
 
2012-04-23 12:43:27 PM  

TheShavingofOccam123:
Yeah, I could see where I would be an idiot to think that you were saying the league used to allow more violent play in the past.


Are you being obtuse intentionally or are your reading comprehension skills really this bad?

I'll try using small words.

MWP threw elbow. Hit man in face. Not good. Should not play with ball for a few of days.
NBA was full of bad dudes. People liked it. Still makes what MWP did bad.
 
2012-04-23 12:43:42 PM  

IAmRight: The foul on Barea is a case of being caught going the wrong way and the fact that Barea is a midget.


Eh. I think that foul was a bit inexcusable. The Lakers melted down in that series, it was embarrassing.
 
2012-04-23 12:44:55 PM  
This just in, Meta World Peace has changed his name to "Fark Wolrd Peace.."
 
2012-04-23 12:45:30 PM  

Slow To Return: Or did it not matter at the time because the Lakers were swept out of the playoffs, and not about to enter the playoffs like they are now?


That's what you said. At the time of his foul, they were on their way to being 0-2. I would think that if anyone defended Artest at that point, then the fact that they had at least two games remaining in their season would have mattered to them. For that, he was suspended one game.

So suspend him for a couple games. Which is what we're all saying.
 
2012-04-23 12:45:42 PM  

DamnYankees: Ok, please cite that. I'm not aware of this happening to an NBA player.



So you've never seen players pelted with stuff as they go to the locker room? Alright then, here's a specific instance:

May 28 - In the fourth quarter of Game 4 of the NBA Western Conference Finals between the Utah Jazz and the San Antonio Spurs at EnergySolutions Arena in Salt Lake City, Jazz fans gave way to frustration, with most of it aimed at San Antonio Spurs swingman Manu Ginóbili and his flair for drawing fouls. Four technical fouls were called against Utah in the fourth quarter, and Jazz fans threw empty water bottles and garbage onto the court after head coach Jerry Sloan and guard Derek Fisher were both ejected for arguing with officials. After the Spurs won the game 91-79, Jazz fans threw beer cups and garbage at Spurs players and officials, with Spurs head coach Gregg Popovich being forced to rush his team straight into the locker room instead of submitting to post-game interviews. Two fans were arrested.
 
2012-04-23 12:49:20 PM  

IAmRight: Slow To Return: Or did it not matter at the time because the Lakers were swept out of the playoffs, and not about to enter the playoffs like they are now?

That's what you said.


Read the ENTIRE post. I was talking about Laker fans defending the BYNUM foul on Barea (and subsequent five game suspension), which occurred in game four with the Lakers losing by 40 points in the fourth quarter, and certainly on their way to being swept, not the ARTEST foul on Barea, which occurred in game two.

Though there seemed to be so many hard fouls on Barea in that series, I can forgive someone for getting them mixed up.
 
2012-04-23 12:49:36 PM  

guestguy: So you've never seen players pelted with stuff as they go to the locker room?


At that point they're already committed to going into the locker room and the debris isn't aimed at anyone in particular.

/besides, if it hit Ginobili, it could've been empty and he'd have fallen over as though it were an anvil that was thrown
 
2012-04-23 12:50:23 PM  

Slow To Return: Read the ENTIRE post. I was talking about Laker fans defending the BYNUM foul on Barea


I don't think anyone defended that one. Tough to recall, though.
 
2012-04-23 12:51:28 PM  

guestguy:
So you've never seen players pelted with stuff as they go to the locker room? Alright then, here's a specific instance:

Usually when a player is going to the locker room they are escorted by security. I have seen players in the circumstance you quoted try and react, but usually the security steps in before anything can happen.
 
2012-04-23 12:52:00 PM  

Slow To Return: I was talking about Laker fans defending the BYNUM foul on Barea


Oh, those non-existent people in this thread?
 
2012-04-23 12:53:22 PM  

IAmRight: At that point they're already committed to going into the locker room and the debris isn't aimed at anyone in particular.

/besides, if it hit Ginobili, it could've been empty and he'd have fallen over as though it were an anvil that was thrown


Ah, I see...so it was the lounging on the scorer's table pretending to give an interview that had him in such a justifiably delicate state of mind? If only he had been heading towards the locker room, none of that nasty business would have occurred...

/No argument from me about Ginobili
 
2012-04-23 12:55:40 PM  

IAmRight: Slow To Return: Read the ENTIRE post. I was talking about Laker fans defending the BYNUM foul on Barea

I don't think anyone defended that one. Tough to recall, though.


.......

I (facetiously) asked if anyone defended Bynum, like they're defending Artest. It wouldn't surprise me in the least; it was, after all, a "crime of passion", and Bynum certainly didn't intend to crush Barea's sternum.
 
2012-04-23 12:56:30 PM  

DamnYankees: Slow To Return: I was talking about Laker fans defending the BYNUM foul on Barea

Oh, those non-existent people in this thread?


Wow, I give up. No more reading-comprehension-hand-holding for you.
 
2012-04-23 12:58:17 PM  
"IAmRight

Smartest? no
Funniest? no
2012-04-23 12:07:38 PM
fonebone77: Most NBA players never even get flagrant fouls.

There have been 76 players who have picked up a flagrant foul THIS SEASON. It's World Peace's first.

Now the superstars might not get them called often, and the players who are in the NBA for a ham sandwich and then sent back to the D-League might not get them, but the average player will have at least one flagrant foul in their NBA career. It's not that big a deal.

TheShavingofOccam123: is a big deal to us racist idiots who don't know anything about basketball.

I know. Thanks to you guys, players get suspended even for leaving a bench, whether they get near a fight or not. You people's horsesh*t and the dumbass overreaction to the rules helped cost my favorite team their best chance at an NBA title."

Good. Suck it.
 
2012-04-23 12:59:40 PM  

TonyDanza: Usually when a player is going to the locker room they are escorted by security. I have seen players in the circumstance you quoted try and react, but usually the security steps in before anything can happen.



I've seen players yelling back at fans in those instances, but I've never noticed one that needed to be restrained by security to keep them from going after them. Doesn't mean I don't believe you, I've just never really seen that.
 
2012-04-23 01:01:01 PM  

Slow To Return: I (facetiously) asked if anyone defended Bynum, like they're defending Artest. It wouldn't surprise me in the least; it was, after all, a "crime of passion", and Bynum certainly didn't intend to crush Barea's sternum.


No one's defending Artest, ultimately.

See, here's the annoying thing. Most of the early people say he should be kicked out of the league or suspended for half a season for something like this. So people that actually like the sport and watch it and comment on it say "get real, it's not that big a deal - he definitely f*cked up, but he should only get a couple/few games, which would be consistent with what the punishment has been for this type of thing every other time it's happened."

And then people act as though we're defending him. No, we're just bringing reality into the indignation party. No, people don't get to make stupid comparisons like "if I did that on the bus, I'd be arrested!" No, people don't get to act like this was the worst foul ever.

It's not defending him - it's defending reality.
 
2012-04-23 01:04:04 PM  

guestguy: Ah, I see...so it was the lounging on the scorer's table pretending to give an interview that had him in such a justifiably delicate state of mind?


He's clearly insane, as evidenced by where he was even before the drink was thrown. But there's a difference between having stuff thrown at you while you're being herded into the locker room by a bunch of security for safety and having stuff thrown at you when it's really only you out there - it's clear you're the target, it actually hits you, and you get a pretty decent bead on where it came from (he didn't get the right guy, but he was close to where it actually came from).

It was really a perfect storm for that to take place.
 
2012-04-23 01:04:58 PM  

FlippityFlap: "IAmRight

Smartest? no
Funniest? no
2012-04-23 12:07:38 PM
fonebone77: Most NBA players never even get flagrant fouls.

There have been 76 players who have picked up a flagrant foul THIS SEASON. It's World Peace's first.

Now the superstars might not get them called often, and the players who are in the NBA for a ham sandwich and then sent back to the D-League might not get them, but the average player will have at least one flagrant foul in their NBA career. It's not that big a deal.

TheShavingofOccam123: is a big deal to us racist idiots who don't know anything about basketball.

I know. Thanks to you guys, players get suspended even for leaving a bench, whether they get near a fight or not. You people's horsesh*t and the dumbass overreaction to the rules helped cost my favorite team their best chance at an NBA title."

Good. Suck it.


I swear that sounds like a Suns fan raving about the suspensions for the Steve Nash debacle. If he's a Suns fan he should spend his time biatching about corrupt refs giving the Western Championship to the Lakers every other season or so.

/i'm not a Suns fan really but I have to watch the games to see any basketball. Farking refs. Farking LA. The worst I saw was a punch to the crotch and twice planting feet under a player's jump shot. Why didn't the Celtic get ejected and suspended?? The Cetlics next game was nationally televised against the Lakers on Sunday afternoon. Yeah. Farking refs. Farking league. Farking commissioner.
 
2012-04-23 01:07:35 PM  

TheShavingofOccam123: If he's a Suns fan he should spend his time biatching about corrupt refs giving the Western Championship to the Lakers every other season or so.


I do. But well, I'm more pissed at the Spurs getting awarded it the other years, since the Suns didn't really have that much of a problem with the Lakers in the postseason. Just the Spurs.

/and yes, of course I'm pissed that Diaw got suspended for CHECKING TO SEE IF HIS TEAMMATE WAS OKAY
 
2012-04-23 01:09:47 PM  

guestguy:
I've seen players yelling back at fans in those instances, but I've never noticed one that needed to be restrained by security to keep them from going after them. Doesn't mean I don't believe you, I've just never really seen that.


In my 20+ years of watching basketball I can say actual physical restraint by security probably happened once or twice, but I would say that a large % of the ones where you saw the player yelling at the fan would have turned physical if not just for the presence of the security. Sorta like when a cops around, they don't have to actually tell you to stop doing something, before you realize it may not be a good idea.
 
2012-04-23 01:11:00 PM  

IAmRight: Most of the early people say he should be kicked out of the league or suspended for half a season for something like this.


There were also "early people" saying it was an "accident on the court" or that "Hardin was at fault".

IAmRight: So people that actually like the sport and watch it and comment on it say "get real, it's not that big a deal - he definitely f*cked up, but he should only get a couple/few games, which would be consistent with what the punishment has been for this type of thing every other time it's happened."


Here's the thing. He's a repeat offender. That *does* make it a bigger deal. Maybe not as big as others are making it out to be, but certainly a bigger deal than if it were his first offense.

Sure, you can say, "it's his first flagrant of the year," but, as I pointed out earlier, it's the second incident in under a year. That should carry a stiffer penalty, IMHO.
 
2012-04-23 01:11:29 PM  

IAmRight: Slow To Return: I (facetiously) asked if anyone defended Bynum, like they're defending Artest. It wouldn't surprise me in the least; it was, after all, a "crime of passion", and Bynum certainly didn't intend to crush Barea's sternum.

No one's defending Artest, ultimately.

See, here's the annoying thing. Most of the early people say he should be kicked out of the league or suspended for half a season for something like this. So people that actually like the sport and watch it and comment on it say "get real, it's not that big a deal - he definitely f*cked up, but he should only get a couple/few games, which would be consistent with what the punishment has been for this type of thing every other time it's happened."

And then people act as though we're defending him. No, we're just bringing reality into the indignation party. No, people don't get to make stupid comparisons like "if I did that on the bus, I'd be arrested!" No, people don't get to act like this was the worst foul ever.

It's not defending him - it's defending reality.


Reality is Artest has displayed repeated violent behavior on the court for years. This incident is one of many in his career. The league sends a message to fans and players that this behavior will ultimately be tolerated for years as long as ratings are up. Arenas and Artest and others like them have no business in the NBA. When the league is sued for millions of dollars by a player or fan injured by an Artest then the days of multiple game suspensions in response to violent player behavior will be over for good. Money is the only thing that makes the league change its mind.
 
2012-04-23 01:14:18 PM  
You know, I never really cared much about basketball other than a casual curiosity every once in a while. I saw what Ron Artest did with the Pacers when he went and fought in the stands. I forgot about him completely because that incident somewhat turned me off to basketball.

However, now that the Knicks have some semblance of a team that's at least entertaining (I doubt they're going anywhere for a while, but Jeremy Lin was fun to watch), I'm sort of getting back into the game.

Fast forward to now. When I first saw the name Metta World Peace, I was like "WTF? Who is that?" I never followed up on it. I just kind of laughed it off and said, "OK, this guy is a tool."

TL:DR - My mind was blown and not blown at the same time when I learned that MWP = Ron Artest.

/yes, I live under a rock, why do you ask?
 
2012-04-23 01:15:15 PM  

TonyDanza: In my 20+ years of watching basketball I can say actual physical restraint by security probably happened once or twice, but I would say that a large % of the ones where you saw the player yelling at the fan would have turned physical if not just for the presence of the security. Sorta like when a cops around, they don't have to actually tell you to stop doing something, before you realize it may not be a good idea.



Fair enough.
 
2012-04-23 01:16:17 PM  

TheShavingofOccam123: Reality is Artest has displayed repeated violent behavior on the court for years.


Reality is he's been no more violent than anyone else since the incident at the Palace, but because of that, every one of his actions will be treated with a ton more severity than it ordinarily would have by the media.

Kevin Love stomped on Luis Scola's neck/chest area while Scola was on the ground (after he fouled him and THAT went uncalled, frankly) - even though Scola's a whiny, flopping b*tch, that was only worth 2 games earlier this season.
 
2012-04-23 01:21:44 PM  

TheShavingofOccam123: The worst I saw was a punch to the crotch and twice planting feet under a player's jump shot. Why didn't the Celtic get ejected and suspended?? The Cetlics next game was nationally televised against the Lakers on Sunday afternoon. Yeah. Farking refs. Farking league. Farking commissioner.


When and who? Im not doubting you but I dont remember.
 
2012-04-23 01:22:39 PM  

IAmRight: TheShavingofOccam123: Reality is Artest has displayed repeated violent behavior on the court for years.

Reality is he's been no more violent than anyone else since the incident at the Palace, but because of that, every one of his actions will be treated with a ton more severity than it ordinarily would have by the media.

Kevin Love stomped on Luis Scola's neck/chest area while Scola was on the ground (after he fouled him and THAT went uncalled, frankly) - even though Scola's a whiny, flopping b*tch, that was only worth 2 games earlier this season.


Having seen Scola literally fling Gortat into shooters thus drawing Gortat fouls against the shooters, I can understand in some way why people would stomp on his neck. If they won't give shooters the "jumping into a defender off of the path to the basket" foul anymore, Scola should get a T or some foul everytime he grabs a defender and falls to the ground.
 
2012-04-23 01:23:18 PM  

Gunny Highway: When and who? Im not doubting you but I dont remember.


I'm not sure about the planting the feet, but I remember Kevin Garnett punching Channing Frye in the junk on a jumper.
 
2012-04-23 01:25:56 PM  

TheShavingofOccam123: I can understand in some way why people would stomp on his neck.


Oh, me too. That was another one where I probably lessen his suspension if I'm commissioner because of the "Kevin, you know you can't do that...but secretly I was really happy to see someone stomp on him. So I have to give you a game - be more discreet next time you want to stomp on him."
 
2012-04-23 01:29:32 PM  

Gunny Highway: TheShavingofOccam123: The worst I saw was a punch to the crotch and twice planting feet under a player's jump shot. Why didn't the Celtic get ejected and suspended?? The Cetlics next game was nationally televised against the Lakers on Sunday afternoon. Yeah. Farking refs. Farking league. Farking commissioner.

When and who? Im not doubting you but I dont remember.


It was Boston Phoenix last season. Channing Frye v. Kevin Garnett. Garnett put his feet underneath at least twice during the game and the last time he did it he punched him in the groin at the same time.

"He hit him in the groin..."
 
2012-04-23 01:31:21 PM  

IAmRight: Gunny Highway: When and who? Im not doubting you but I dont remember.

I'm not sure about the planting the feet, but I remember Kevin Garnett punching Channing Frye in the junk on a jumper.


Ahh yes. Hard to defend that one.
 
2012-04-23 02:04:15 PM  

IAmRight: guestguy: No they farking shouldn't; they should be arrested and thrown in jail! What a dumbass thing to say...

Let's carry this one over to the real-life situation. I throw a beer at someone in real life, yeah, I should be arrested and put in jail. But I also should fully expect to have the person I threw the beer at to come and try to kick my ass. Sure, he'll get in trouble too, but ultimately if I throw a drink at someone, I deserve to get my ass kicked.


Real life =/= sports. In real life, if I hit someone with a stick, I get sent to prison. NHL, that's a common play.
 
2012-04-23 02:04:51 PM  
Old and busted: Metta World Peace. The new hotness: Metta World War

/ suck it, Laker homers
 
2012-04-23 02:23:27 PM  
Crap like that is endemic in the culture of the Los Angeles Lakers. Not basketball, not "those people," specifically the Los Angeles Lakers of Los Angeles. They're just gearing up for another "beat the crap out of the other team because we can't win games" playoff series like they had last year against Dallas.
 
2012-04-23 02:42:19 PM  

Morpheses: Real life =/= sports.


Which is the argument I was making earlier.

However, I don't think that the RAIFE incident could be classified too much as sports, since most of it wasn't game-related. Similarly, I wasn't arguing that the punishments in that situation should be equivalent. I'm just saying if you throw food at anyone, anywhere, you should expect to get your ass kicked, and I have no problem with them kicking your ass if you should decide to do so.
 
2012-04-23 03:13:07 PM  

IAmRight: Morpheses: Real life =/= sports.

Which is the argument I was making earlier.

However, I don't think that the RAIFE incident could be classified too much as sports, since most of it wasn't game-related. Similarly, I wasn't arguing that the punishments in that situation should be equivalent. I'm just saying if you throw food at anyone, anywhere, you should expect to get your ass kicked, and I have no problem with them kicking your ass if you should decide to do so.


Luckily, I have done no such thing. I have a weird aversion to a man almost twice my size and weight beating me down.
 
2012-04-23 03:55:49 PM  
 
2012-04-23 10:19:54 PM  

fonebone77: Your Average Witty Fark User: It's nice to see some douchebag in Arizona, who hasn't had fark for success, criticize another city. Congrats, you're a biatch.

I am actually back in OKC now. Ive been a season ticket holder for the Thunder since they started. I dont really claim AZ in any way or even care much about them, but they have a championship in a major sport a heck of a lot more recently than Seattle.

You are the one who is happy about a player getting injured. So, go ahead an be smug I guess.


OkC? That explains everything. Here's hoping Artest does the same thing to you while he's on vacation.
 
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