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(Chron)   1 in 2 new graduates are jobless or unemployed. Then again, if they all have creative writing degrees and nose rings like this guy in the article, I can see why   (chron.com) divider line 419
    More: Obvious, baristas, graduates  
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14482 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Apr 2012 at 3:41 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-22 08:14:36 PM  

rewind2846: Tell you what... next time you buy a pair of shoes, a suit of clothes, a car or even a candy bar, ask yourself this: If you have never seen or used this thing before, how do you make your decision?

You have no idea, do you?


Very easily, if I know nothing about it I don't buy it because I have idea what the hell it is or anything about it. Or did you mean something else by your question?

I work in advertising, I don't hold any high regard for being able to swindle humans into buying things by taking advantage of their shortcomings.
 
2012-04-22 08:20:21 PM  

HempHead: Having been in Silicon Valley this past year( 1st trip there in 10 years), I was completely shocked how many Indians live there.


Heh, yeah. I spent most of a year in Milpitas a while back for my job. One weekend I was browsing around the local shopping mall. (Normally I'm not much of a mall shopper but you get bored living out of a hotel room). Most of the crowd was Indian or Asian, and of course I thought nothing of it. I'm used to it here, and most of my coworkers are Indian, and my boss is Chinese.

But then, as I was just walking idly around killing time and browsing aimlessly it suddenly hit me....it wasn't just mostly Indian and Asian....I was the single solitary only anglo-caucasian customer in this 1.2 million square foot mall. (There were some anglo store employees) I made it a point for the next 20 minutes of walking to spot a shopper of European complexion. Nope just me, in a crowd of thousands of weekend shoppers. I found it fascinating.
 
2012-04-22 08:25:17 PM  

rewind2846: Rakishi: rewind2846: Engineers are good at making things work. That's what they do. Designers and artists make you want to have it. That's what WE do.

So basically the useless and inefficient bits that are necessary as oil in a capitalistic system but really provide no actual tangible value or contribution?

That makes you proud why exactly?

"provide no actual tangible value or contribution"?

Tell you what... next time you buy a pair of shoes, a suit of clothes, a car or even a candy bar, ask yourself this: If you have never seen or used this thing before, how do you make your decision?

You have no idea, do you?


Pick the one made in Germany.
 
2012-04-22 08:26:28 PM  

Warlordtrooper: Fark It: But the snowflake generation doesn't do any of that, they come out of college without any job experience and expect the jobs to fall in their laps.

.... In order to get the job you need experience
.... In order to get experience you need to be able to get a job

You really don't see the logical problem with this?


I'm sure that, in six pages, somebody has gotten to this, but you really don't see the false dilemma?
 
2012-04-22 08:31:27 PM  

rewind2846: "provide no actual tangible value or contribution"?

Tell you what... next time you buy a pair of shoes, a suit of clothes, a car or even a candy bar, ask yourself this: If you have never seen or used this thing before, how do you make your decision?

You have no idea, do you?


Ah, if you meant an answer like what The_Original_Roxtar said then I base it a few criteria generally:
a) Price
b) Function, how well does it perform what I need of it
c) Peacock effect, what will shallow people like you judge me for having this item

There is some aesthetic consideration in there although I suspect a good chunk of that is due to some innate desire to achieve c). It's depressing how important c) become as you move up in society.
 
2012-04-22 08:37:04 PM  

Digital Communist: The way I see it, convincing young people to take the arts is a lose/lose situation for us a society.


then you're an idiot... the problem isn't that people take it.. the problem is that TOO MANY take it.
 
2012-04-22 08:42:14 PM  
There is some aesthetic consideration in there although I suspect a good chunk of that is due to some innate desire to achieve c).

This contributes far more to decision making than most people think. In fact, advertising tricks are helped greatly by the fact that people tend to assume they are rational thinkers.
 
2012-04-22 08:48:47 PM  

monstera: English major with a concentration in advanced composition and rhetoric.
Director of sales and procurement for $50MM+. I write a lot of convincing emails, and can talk.
If I had to do it over again, or was doing it now, it would be forensic or behavioral economics.
You are welcome.
/ a calculator can't determine the value of a person


if i had known i could make fifty trillion dollars with an english major, i'd have at least minored in the damned subject.
 
2012-04-22 08:49:59 PM  

wildcardjack: But I did have to pay $14k in income taxes for 2011.


color me unimpressed.. but only because i make more and then my wife's income... we pay more in taxes than the bottom 20% of americans make a year and that's sad

and i don't say that as a complaint about my tax rates
 
2012-04-22 08:51:47 PM  

Ringshadow: But keep saying people with body ornamentation won't find work.


let me tell you about the amount of body modification at microsoft..... :P
 
2012-04-22 08:56:21 PM  

Kazan: Ringshadow: But keep saying people with body ornamentation won't find work.

let me tell you about the amount of body modification at microsoft..... :P


Depends entirely on the business. Microsoft- sure. Taking care of 80 year old people with dementia- not so sure. The 80 year olds sometimes are beyond caring- their 60 year old kids- they care.
 
2012-04-22 08:57:18 PM  

ph0rk: All we'd be doing then is forcing out people we've trained in our graduate schools. It is in our best interest to keep them here (and let them become citizens in time so they put down roots).


Why????

The gist of the article is that there are plenty of college grads without jobs.

Adding 80,000 more seems to be like throwing another log on the fire.

When you are stuck in a hole, the first thing you do is stop digging.
 
2012-04-22 09:01:45 PM  

TheSelphie: Mayor Bee: Pythagorean Thermos: As someone finishing up my undergrad in accounting and jumping right into my Master's and multiple employers already talking about job offers after I get my graduate degree, I'd say that as far as job placement, accountants have it better than those precious engineers...
/There are 3 things certain in life
//Death, Taxes, and jobs for accountants

As long as those multiple employers aren't Big 4 accounting firms, I'd say you've got a bright future ahead of you. If you're considering audit/attest for a public firm, however, I'd say you've got a lot of 80 hour weeks (on salary), seniors and leads that don't know how to train, and managers and partners that don't want to hear about seniors and leads that don't know how to train. Good luck!

Seriously, STAY THE FARK AWAY FROM PUBLIC ACCOUNTING. One of my jobs so far in public accounting was actually really good (a small firm of about 25 people total that actually gave a shiat about their employees and their lives), and I wouldn't have left if my husband didn't have his job transferred, but that is way far from the norm and I got that job from sheer luck (right place, right time). I finally got out and I LOVE being able to work a normal, 40 hours per week job with people who aren't farking crazy.


Speaking as someone who's starting with a mid-sized firm in the fall, I'm pretty excited about what I've seen and heard so far, ESPECIALLY the lack of 80-100 hour workweeks. I live in a pretty good area, job-wise, so if my long term plans there don't pan out I can easily slide into an industry job in a couple of years. Any other experience/advice for a graduate accounting student?
 
2012-04-22 09:04:52 PM  

HempHead: ph0rk: All we'd be doing then is forcing out people we've trained in our graduate schools. It is in our best interest to keep them here (and let them become citizens in time so they put down roots).

Why????

The gist of the article is that there are plenty of college grads without jobs.

Adding 80,000 more seems to be like throwing another log on the fire.

When you are stuck in a hole, the first thing you do is stop digging.


graduate school != college graduation.

It is impossible(legally) for a foreigner to get a full-time job here after they graduate from college in their country, or maybe even in this country. You have to be a permanent-resident or a work-visa holder to work here. College grads from other countries will not be sponsored for H1Bs to come and work here. If they are granted those, the consulate officer who grants that visa is the one to blame.
 
2012-04-22 09:04:53 PM  

trotsky: ...


as a software engineer let me say: fark the idiots who think everyone SHOULD be an engineer.. let alone talk about could - those jackasses failed remedial economics (let's not even talk about econ 100)
 
2012-04-22 09:07:49 PM  

tootse: HempHead: ph0rk: All we'd be doing then is forcing out people we've trained in our graduate schools. It is in our best interest to keep them here (and let them become citizens in time so they put down roots).

Why????

The gist of the article is that there are plenty of college grads without jobs.

Adding 80,000 more seems to be like throwing another log on the fire.

When you are stuck in a hole, the first thing you do is stop digging.

graduate school != college graduation.

It is impossible(legally) for a foreigner to get a full-time job here after they graduate from college in their country, or maybe even in this country. You have to be a permanent-resident or a work-visa holder to work here. College grads from other countries will not be sponsored for H1Bs to come and work here. If they are granted those, the consulate officer who grants that visa is the one to blame.


Except for agriculture or other trade jobs. I don't know much about how those work.
 
2012-04-22 09:10:49 PM  

The_Original_Roxtar:
which of the above has the shiniest package is last on my list of criteria.


As much as folks like you might think that you're some sort of rational, intellectual peer of the mythical Mr Spock from Star Trek, you're not. No one is, unless you're brain damaged in some ways. You will not make rational decisions each and every time, all the time, all your life. That is what makes us human, and that is why the arts and design are so important. They are the yin to the rational yang.

Besides, you can always tell the aspergers sufferer who tries to be rational about everything they do. They drive an ugly car, dress like their mother picked their clothes or worse, and get laid very infrequently if at all.

Candy bars taste good, or they don't.
Cars look good, or they don't.
Clothing looks good, or it doesn't.
Shoes look good, or they don't.
This must be IN CONJUNCTION WITH their taste, usability, utility, or fit.

Art is part of the thin line between existence and living.
 
2012-04-22 09:12:45 PM  

WI241TH: LordZorch: On the other hand, Boeing is hiring like mad.

They hire many chemical engineers? 'Cause uh, 8 hours a week at Macy's isn't cutting it these days.


actually yes. I have a friend who is Chem E and she works in the 'paint' department! seriously! They have a freking paint dept at boeing. I'm guessing it's not your typical Sherwin Williams but rather aviation paint that can withstand extreme temperatures while having the reflective surfaces and coatings to absorb or scatter milimeter wavelengths or reduce infrared signatures among other things.
 
2012-04-22 09:14:49 PM  

punistation: [i.imgur.com image 500x589]

In related news, QANTAS airlines just laid off 600 engineers, and is moving those jobs offshore. Can't be helped. If those engineers wanted to stay employed, they should have gotten an employable degree.


American Airlines announced a couple of months that they are closing a aircraft maintenance base and outsourcing 8,000 jobs to most likely Central America.

Stupid employees! That's what they get for obtaining degrees in M&E.
 
2012-04-22 09:18:36 PM  

SuperNinjaToad: WI241TH: LordZorch: On the other hand, Boeing is hiring like mad.

They hire many chemical engineers? 'Cause uh, 8 hours a week at Macy's isn't cutting it these days.

actually yes. I have a friend who is Chem E and she works in the 'paint' department! seriously! They have a freking paint dept at boeing. I'm guessing it's not your typical Sherwin Williams but rather aviation paint that can withstand extreme temperatures while having the reflective surfaces and coatings to absorb or scatter milimeter wavelengths or reduce infrared signatures among other things.


mcreadyblue: punistation: [i.imgur.com image 500x589]

In related news, QANTAS airlines just laid off 600 engineers, and is moving those jobs offshore. Can't be helped. If those engineers wanted to stay employed, they should have gotten an employable degree.

American Airlines announced a couple of months that they are closing a aircraft maintenance base and outsourcing 8,000 jobs to most likely Central America.

Stupid employees! That's what they get for obtaining degrees in M&E.


Someone get the resumes of those engineers to Boeing.

/Anecdotes are fun
 
2012-04-22 09:20:18 PM  

antidisestablishmentarianism: In 6th grade we had to do a research paper on what job we wanted, what the demand would be, and what kind of salary we would expect to make.


You, too, huh? Actually, we got to do it in 9th grade. I was into astronomy at the time, so I chose "astronomer". Holy shiat, what a low-paying, low-opportunity occupation -- you pretty much had to get a doctorate, and if you were lucky enough to find a position, pay would be about half what most other scientists could expect. I didn't dig very deeply; if I'd gone far enough to learn about the tenure race and grantsmanship, I probably would've thrown myself off the balcony.

That turned out to be one of my more valuable assignments, because I never again considered astronomy as a career path. I still love astronomy, and that love hasn't been crushed by the disillusionment trying to make a living at it. Meanwhile, I'm one less person to compete against those who do love it enough -- and need it enough -- to make it their profession.
 
2012-04-22 09:21:38 PM  

itsfullofstars: LordZorch: On the other hand, Boeing is hiring like mad. Perhaps if studied engineering he'd have a nice paycheck coming in every two weeks and he could fritter his time away writing short stories as a hobby...

I put the blame in two places: the everybody's a winner snowflake mentality which paints every decision a child makes as a good one, and on guidance counselors who insist that the best course of study is what interests you. Most 17 year olds dont know WTF they want to do, especially now.

I remember my guidance counselor, so many years ago, asking me what my college plans were. I told him of the math and engineering I'd be studying he asked "but you are such a good musician, you should major in music!" Idiot.

We need to be telling these kids that there are very few people who are fortunate enough to get paid to do what most people do for beer money at best. We also need to let them know that work is work, and getting paid for something you love isn't always as great as it sounds.


As least with a MA in music you can teach what you enjoy.

Just like this kid. If he decided to be a writer and just wrote, when he submitted his resume or interviewed he could lead off with, "I love to write and have 37 published articles that were non-gratis; here are two of my favorites." They might respond with something like, "Looks like you enjoy it, but are you qualified?" He could then just downplay his degree, "Yeah, I earned a BA in Creative - it helped take my writing to the next level."

Counter this with, "I got my degree in creative." They'll say something like, "What have you done since school?"

"Umm, worked at Starbucks."

Who would you hire?

/electronics degree
//what adjectives can I add to Suck It?
 
2012-04-22 09:28:22 PM  

rewind2846:
Candy bars look good, or they don't.
Cars look good, or they don't.
Clothing looks good, or it doesn't.
Shoes look good, or they don't.
This must be IN CONJUNCTION WITH their taste, usability, utility, or fit.
/FTFM

And to add:
People usually don't eat nasty looking food no matter how good it tastes, drive crappy looking cars unless they have to (or they're weird), or wear crappy looking shoes or clothes unless they have to (unless they are , again, weird).

 
2012-04-22 09:33:24 PM  

Mike_LowELL: So if everybody studies engineering, unemployment goes away?


No, but if you don't study something very lucrative, you need to have an actual plan rather than "I don't even know what I'm looking for."

I advise undergraduates, and I can tell you that a bunch of them do internships and then job hunt in their senior year, while another bunch of them never get around to thinking about that stuff at all. If you get a degree in CS or EE, you may be able to afford not thinking about stuff; if you get a degree in creative writing, fine, but if you aren't figuring out how it will get you a job, it's not the system's fault if you don't.
 
2012-04-22 09:38:26 PM  

JorgiX: I'm starting college this fall at a top university and the thought of not finding a job after graduation stresses the shiat out of me even now. It may be the fact that in the back of my head I know my major is not particularly lucrative in most cases or that my long-term plan for my life doesn't look as good as it did a few years ago (poli sci major that wanted to go to law school but with the legal market the way it is...). I don't consider myself part of the "snowflakes" that just want success to rain down on them due to the fact that the possess a degree either, I've had a difficult life and I've always worked hard in networking and career planning yet I still feel tons of pressure knowing that I might still end up unemployed.

I don't know if this awareness is a positive or a negative but I do know that not everyone is as careful and some people are getting balls deep in debt to study photography and expect to make a living out of that.

/some career advice other than "study engineering" would be greatly appreciated.



I would say that if you've picked a major/field that can be relatively lucrative, then stay with it. You aren't going to work as hard in classes when you don't care/aren't interested in the material, and if you have shiat grades you won't get a job or into law/graduate school. When you get burned out by the middle of your junior year, don't let yourself quit or dropout. If you thought the intro courses were interesting and compelling, you will probably enjoy the field; push just comes to shove in your upper level major courses. If you are in a good program, they will make you earn the degree.

Also, as others said, do whatever you can to get some amount of experience in the field while you are an undergrad whether it be co-ops internships, or some kind of research assistantship. This will help with both resumes and grad school apps. I assume for poli sci and law it's probably also good to try to get involved with SGA (Student Government Assoc) or mock-UN, or other similar student groups.

It's also possible that you may have to take a less desirable job coming out of school. I am not sure about job market for law students... I imagine them doing volunteer work at think-tank non-profits, or special-interest lobbying groups in washington... Anyway, you may have to take some crappy intro job for a couple years before getting a job that's even going in the direction you want (much less with the salary you want). We all have to pay our dues. Anyway, that being the case, if you have to get loans, I'd recommend getting government loans for as much of it as you can. I think they are more lenient about the terms of repayment than private loans. There are options to defer payments, so you can wait until you have a job to start paying it back. There are also options to spread out the original repayment period from 10 years up to 25 or so if you don't make enough... anyway, loans aren't the end of the world if you know what you're getting into ahead of time.

/TL;DR : 1. Do something you're willing to work hard at, 2. Get experience prior to graduation, 3. shiattiness like loans and low-paying, entry-level jobs are part of life and not the end of the world.
 
2012-04-22 09:39:52 PM  

SuperNinjaToad: WI241TH: LordZorch: On the other hand, Boeing is hiring like mad.

They hire many chemical engineers? 'Cause uh, 8 hours a week at Macy's isn't cutting it these days.

actually yes. I have a friend who is Chem E and she works in the 'paint' department! seriously! They have a freking paint dept at boeing. I'm guessing it's not your typical Sherwin Williams but rather aviation paint that can withstand extreme temperatures while having the reflective surfaces and coatings to absorb or scatter milimeter wavelengths or reduce infrared signatures among other things.


In printing (my trade) chemistry helps. Not from the pressmen using ink, but creating the ink itself to be consistent in coverage and color in something you can "paint" half the solar system in .01mm layers. Then you have UV ink, metallics, coatings....god knows what. Yes there is a lot of knowledge base there to see the final product. That's just the tip of the iceberg.
 
2012-04-22 09:40:30 PM  
It depends on the liberal arts degree. A degree in philosophy gives you a solid grounding in logic. So much so that marketing farkwits and organizationally challenged project managers will live in fear of you.
 
2012-04-22 09:40:44 PM  

ph0rk: It's an almost certainty that no one posting in this thread has made or will make a lasting contribution for the good to society (and no, kids don't count. If they cure cancer, that's their contribution - not yours).


I disagree. Anyone who works at a job and produces a net positive contribution to the GDP is part of this wondrous national productivity machine that produces much of the worlds greatest science and technology.

I look at it this way - a team of bright engineers and scientists on a desert island is not going to be able to make a space shuttle program no matter how nobel prize winning brilliant they are. They need materials that have to be mined from the earth, gasoline for their cars to get to work, roads to operate their cars on, food on the table so they can concentrate on engineering instead of surviving, etc.

The carbon nanotube quantum conductors being developed Sandia National Lab, and the light element fusion research at Lawrence Livermore, are not possible without the guy who pumps gas, and the guy who stocks grocery shelves.
 
2012-04-22 09:42:38 PM  

UCFRoadWarrior:
All this push for Science and Math degrees in a service-based economy is GOP Business Socialist nonsense. As one manager of a business so succinctly put it: "Why do I want to hire a Mathematician at $70,000 when I can use the calculator on my cell phone to do my computations?"


The modern computer, a gift from mathematical minds
He has used it for fark, and pron, so many times
As he pounds on his keyboard, making a horrendous clatter
He says: Numbers... they really don't matter!
 
2012-04-22 09:43:35 PM  

Atomic Spunk: mc_madness: Get your kids focused on a healthcare profession.

America is getting fatter and older and Americans generally take shiatty care of themselves.

Healthcare profession jobs are guaranteed bank and fun.

Csb...

Before I received my degree in accounting, I used to work as a sales rep for a propane company. One of my larger clients was an elderly care home. I was taking a walk around their facility with the chief engineer when he was pulled away for an emergency phone call. As I was sitting in a hallway waiting, an old man with dementia approached me slowly, while babbling something and reaching out his hand. I thought maybe he needed help steadying himself, so I reached out to grad his hand. It was damp. He was wearing a hospital gown and I saw brown liquid running down his leg. I looked at my hand, and it had brown liquid on it.

Not all healthcare jobs are fun. In fact, I'd guess very few jobs in that field are fun. At least not for me. I love talking about money, so being a CPA is more my speed. And I never have to deal with anyone's piss or poop as a part of my job.


I work as a medical transcriptionist and don't have to see or deal with sick patients. The same goes for laboratory employees (who only deal with specimens), medical records clerks, and coders.
 
2012-04-22 09:45:53 PM  

numbone: Go buy a weed eater and a lawnmower. I don't care if my lawn care guy has a nose ring.


Jose and Paco can do it cheaper and quicker.
 
2012-04-22 09:46:46 PM  

tootse: HempHead: ph0rk: All we'd be doing then is forcing out people we've trained in our graduate schools. It is in our best interest to keep them here (and let them become citizens in time so they put down roots).

Why????

The gist of the article is that there are plenty of college grads without jobs.

Adding 80,000 more seems to be like throwing another log on the fire.

When you are stuck in a hole, the first thing you do is stop digging.

graduate school != college graduation.

It is impossible(legally) for a foreigner to get a full-time job here after they graduate from college in their country, or maybe even in this country. You have to be a permanent-resident or a work-visa holder to work here. College grads from other countries will not be sponsored for H1Bs to come and work here. If they are granted those, the consulate officer who grants that visa is the one to blame.


Foreign graduate students automatically get to work for 18 months following graduation due to rule changes by DHS.

/my company hired one last month, H1-b visa process now
//was unaware of the huge shortage of accountants
 
2012-04-22 09:49:05 PM  
Hello, here's my comment I made on /. a while ago:

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2726085&cid=39359061

Comment: Re:Engineering shortage? (Score 5, Insightful)
by snotclot on Wednesday March 14, @07:31PM (#39359061) Attached to: Reversing the Loss of Science and Engineering Careers

Why study engineering?

1) Hardest course loads through college (excepting perhaps hard sciences and premeds).

2) No girls in classes (5-14%, falls as engineering major gets harder (ie electrical))

3) No girls in companies you will end up working at

4) Facebook friends list is 80% men, most of friends are men. Great if you are networking, crappy if you are trying to network to find the perfect gf/wife. Other majors make balanced set of friends naturally through classes. Their networking, as a result, is exponentially easier.

5) You end up working at a multinational company that pays you less (much less) than finance, law, BUSINESS. Argh. Note that business, finance, and law types went through the OPPOSITE of #1-#4, meaning they end up knowing way more girls, earning more, and having had a better life.

6) Yet, you feel as if you contribute way more to society than money movers, patent leeching lawyers, and smoothtalking male/female bimbos/bimbettes.

You tell ME how f*** up engineering is.

You ask why I do it? Because I love analysis, creating, designing, and doing.
 
2012-04-22 09:51:33 PM  

rewind2846: And to add:
People usually don't eat nasty looking food no matter how good it tastes,


Yes, but my wife and I didn't need an art major to come into our house tonight and make the fish stew look appetizing.

You're confusing the need for aesthetics with the need for art majors. We don't need college graduates to make our food look appetizing, because a regular person can do that without your help and without having to spend tens of thousands of dollars learning how.

Ditto for half the industrial design you cited in your previous post. You really think Pfizer needed an artist to decide to make their pill blue? Do you think art majors are the only human beings who can comprehend colors? Do you think artists are the only people who can make a candy bar label look nice?
 
2012-04-22 09:52:58 PM  
I'm back in school now earning a degree in a field that I have over a decade of experience in.
Like somebody above said, they have the experience, now getting the paper because the HR drones really, really want you to have it, no matter what you've already accomplished career-wise.

I love what I do, and want to keep doing it. It seems that now, you really need a degree.
I'm taking advantage of that setback though, I'm getting the degree, I'm getting good enough grades to earn scholarships that pay for most everything. I started at the local community college to get all of the core coursework out of the way cheaply (Analytical and argumentative writing and Chem 101 are the same whether you pay $48/hr for it or $250/hr).
Now I'm transferring to a state school with a nationally accredited program in my field that offers co-ops and internships...they'll even require you do do at least one internship before you graduate. I'm going to go the co-op route as soon as I'm done with my first semester there (because they require you to have at least one before going co-op).

Lots of those co-ops are with the feds. If you successfully complete at least 640 hours of employment (half a year at 20hrs/wk) you are qualified for non-competitive entry to the federal service..which will allow any loans you've taken out to be forgiven after 10 years service.

TL:DR; Have a plan, and work that plan to your advantage.
/Environmental Science, Conservation Ecology dual major
 
2012-04-22 09:57:45 PM  

rewind2846: rewind2846:
Candy bars look good, or they don't.
Cars look good, or they don't.
Clothing looks good, or it doesn't.
Shoes look good, or they don't.
This must be IN CONJUNCTION WITH their taste, usability, utility, or fit.
/FTFM

And to add:
People usually don't eat nasty looking food no matter how good it tastes, drive crappy looking cars unless they have to (or they're weird), or wear crappy looking shoes or clothes unless they have to (unless they are , again, weird).


a snickers looks like a 3 musketeers looks like a milky way. decisions are made based on ingredient and taste preference
A hyundai genesis coupe looks better than a dodge caravan. somehow the minivan sells much better despite it looking like crap. must be due to the fact that other things are more important than looks.
Tuxedos look better than coveralls. I don't see my mechanics wearing armani. Nor are their coveralls designed to emulate the look of a designer tuxedo. I don't wear a silk suit when I ride my motorcycle.

People don't eat good looking food that tastes like shiat
people don't buy beautiful cars that don't run
people don't wear beautiful clothing that itches like a motherfarker and restricts blood flow
people (other than crazy women) don't wear shoes that hurt their feet regardless of how pretty they are.
 
2012-04-22 09:58:18 PM  

WI241TH: LordZorch: On the other hand, Boeing is hiring like mad.

They hire many chemical engineers? 'Cause uh, 8 hours a week at Macy's isn't cutting it these days.


Government is always hiring all types of engineers all over the country. You can check usajobs.gov for any openings. Downside is that you'll probably only start at GS-7 (something like 45k), but you'd be on an accelerated track to GS-12 (70k) within 2-3 years. Upside is that after you retire, if you're even remotely decent at your job then you can come back as a contractor. It's not unheard of to retire making 120k and come back the next week doing the same job as a contractor making 250k+ (including retirement money).
 
2012-04-22 09:59:41 PM  

mcreadyblue: punistation: [i.imgur.com image 500x589]

In related news, QANTAS airlines just laid off 600 engineers, and is moving those jobs offshore. Can't be helped. If those engineers wanted to stay employed, they should have gotten an employable degree.

American Airlines announced a couple of months that they are closing a aircraft maintenance base and outsourcing 8,000 jobs to most likely Central America.

Stupid employees! That's what they get for obtaining degrees in M&E.


I work for one of the major defense contractors, and we just had a sector-wide all-hands this week (approx. 1/4 of the entire company I guess?). Our sector VP gave us a run-down of our financial standing for the coming year. Basically, we are in good shape if Washington maintained the status-quo; however, an outcome of all the budgetary-BS from last year (my words, not his) was that if congress doesn't pass a budget for next year (something they haven't done for the past... 3 years is it?), then there is going to be ANOTHER 500 billion dollar cut to defense over the next decade (there was already one 500 billion-dollar cut). This being an election year, odds of that happening are very slim. Some people may actually think that that would be a good thing; however, they would be wrong. A strong case could be made that the first cut was fine (again, this is my opinion), that there was a lot of fat that could still be trimmed. However, according to the veep, no one, neither the industry side nor the government side, knows how to handle another cut. They will have to drastically cut into something if it comes, and if they cut into acquisitions/ contracts, it will shake the industry. It won't even be a question of layoffs, but of consolidation of major defense companies.

So yea, bear that in mind when you are pushing those youngins into engineering...
 
2012-04-22 10:00:10 PM  
"I don't think enough research has been done on these products," one food safety expert says.
[...]
"I don't think it's a fair comparison at all," said one seafood expert.


"I don't think we're doing actual journalism," an unnamed website reported.
 
2012-04-22 10:00:16 PM  
hey, i graduated with a creative writing degree and my second major was philosophy. and i have a decent job i guess, although it took me 6 years to get it. of course, my plans in life were not solely dictated by my choice of college majors. i majored in writing and philosophy because (surprise!) i like writing and philosophy. after i graduated, i was like "oh well that was fun. guess i have to find a job now." i certainly never expected to magically find the perfect job in my field. i work in a factory, running a machine, so it looks like i didn't. but i liked my college majors and i like my job, so it all worked out perfectly in the end.
 
2012-04-22 10:00:32 PM  
Is this were i pop by and mention that i have a degree in creative writing and make more than you?

It IS????

Well, then, there you have it.
 
2012-04-22 10:02:08 PM  
I actually get some good extra dough with creative writing. I live in the country I've always wanted to live in, I have a job I love, no debts and a lifestyle that's really comfy.
I also have a mohawk haircut (the flat type, not the spiky one) and dress in such a fashion that people always end up asking me in what band I play, eventhough I don't play in any.
I work in IT but I graduated with an english (foreign language) major.

Now... it's not about your diploma. It's about getting the life you want, having convictions and being ready to pay for them with your own skin.
Starbucks kids need to grow guts.
 
2012-04-22 10:13:28 PM  
Get a degree in something useful, do _not_ pigeon hole yourself into one rare specialty that you can't apply anywhere else in case you don't find your dream job. I have my degree in Archaeology and my background is in retail. I'm now buyer for a multimillion dollar corporation. In the words of my prof "College is where you learn how to learn. The specific on the paper just direct you to the correct sector and make the boss happy to hire you". Get your foot in the door, even if it's not your expected pay grade.
 
2012-04-22 10:15:49 PM  

Brutal Momentum Loss: I actually get some good extra dough with creative writing. I live in the country I've always wanted to live in, I have a job I love, no debts and a lifestyle that's really comfy.
I also have a mohawk haircut (the flat type, not the spiky one) and dress in such a fashion that people always end up asking me in what band I play, eventhough I don't play in any.
I work in IT but I graduated with an english (foreign language) major.

Now... it's not about your diploma. It's about getting the life you want, having convictions and being ready to pay for them with your own skin.
Starbucks kids need to grow guts.


i232.photobucket.com
 
2012-04-22 10:28:22 PM  
My advise to anyone who is about to graduate high school is this:

If you don't know what you want to do, get a degree in something that is hiring; especially look at 1-2 year degrees. DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES JUST GET A DEGREE IN SOMETHING YOU THINK IS FUN.
 
2012-04-22 10:33:38 PM  

rewind2846: Digital Communist: You can always do arts stuff when it was meant, in your spare time.


Fark you sideways, in your spare time. I won't even BEGIN to try to explain to your dumb ass the ways in which everything you see, hear, live in, read, wear, drive, use or touch that was made by humans has the hands and mind of an artist in it.

Find me one farking thing that hasn't been created in part or in whole by an artist, designer, architect or other college arts graduate that should have done art "in their spare time". Go ahead. I farking DARE YOU.

/graphic designer
//had it up to here with this dumb sh*t
//farking moran


Every single programming language ever created.
 
2012-04-22 10:36:52 PM  

Kazan: Finity999


This is fair, but in this job market and with a BA in English I don't aim too high.

I live in Colorado Springs and am able to pay all my bills on $22k after tax. Given I have a pretty high amount of debt which is my own fault. If I could make $40-50k after taxes the majority of my money issues would be resolved. Though I've been looking for a better job I've yet to find one. Benefits can be just as valuable as pay sometimes.
 
2012-04-22 10:43:35 PM  

Mock26: Every single programming language ever created.


I beg to differ, some code is pure poetry!
 
2012-04-22 10:46:15 PM  

Mock26: Every single programming language ever created.


speaking of programming languages, have you missed some of the horribly coded websites?

Sites like this one:

Horrible artwork, horrible!
 
2012-04-22 10:47:19 PM  

rewind2846: The_Original_Roxtar:

So no one designed the covers or any other part for this so that it looks this good under the hood?

No one designed the outer casing, colors or graphics for this?

Who do you think designed the little blue pills? The medicine in them is a gray-white powder.

You mean like a checkup? Wonder who decided on the shape and color for this doctor's scale?


Do you purport that a doctor's patients will receive better care with an attractive scale? Or that in the weeks of research I did before buying my CPU, I should have paid more careful attention to the casing design? Here's a hint, the "case" was designed by thermal engineers.

Yes, artists matter, and yes some people buy cars and other things because they are pretty. But you are overstating things.

A car without an artist behind it might look like a tank but will still get you home. A car without an engineer behind it will look pretty sitting in your driveway and possibly nothing more.

On the flipside, a movie made with state of the art cameras and computers, but conceived by an uncreative hack, is not worth seeing at all compared to a film made with a $500 camcorder, but written and filmed by a genius.

Artists matter, for sure, but you are going in the wrong direction by making it sound like we should be thanking them for the wonders of modern medicine, computing technology, and automotive technology. Their role there is fluff, nothing more. Their role in ART is of course of utmost importance.
 
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