FARK.com: (7064123) 1 in 2 new graduates are jobless or unemployed. Then again, if they all have creative writing degrees and nose rings like this guy in the article, I can see why

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		1 in 2 new graduates are jobless or unemployed. Then again, if they all have creative writing degrees and nose rings like this guy in the article, I can see why (chron.com)		419
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Repo Man		2012-04-22 04:55:11 PM

Arthur: I am going to become a superhero! You know... part-time, at first...

lwpengy		2012-04-22 04:55:20 PM

ultrachronic: MaudlinMutantMollusk: 1 in 2 new graduates are jobless or unemployed. Then again, if they all have creative writing degrees and nose rings like this guy in the article, I can see why

The difference... I do not see it

/copy fail

Was about to mention this.

Jobless is the definition of enemployed, is it not?

Shows that you DO NOT have a creative writing degree, makes perfect sense with one I'd imagine

Mef		2012-04-22 04:56:01 PM

JorgiX: /some career advice other than "study engineering" would be greatly appreciated.

Others have mentioned it - but during your studies try to find a job related to the field you want to go into. If you can't do that try to volunteer with a group that does things related to the field you want to go into. In addition to that try to get involved with academic clubs / societies related to your field, try to look at career networking groups, etc.

If you have any type of work on your resume in a related field (the more the better) a potential employer will consider it some type of experience. Internships are great for this (but if you're looking at poli-sci, that field is a bit notorious for it being hard to intern). If you want to do law, you might be able to find a local law firm that needs a clerk for a few hours a week. It might not pay the best, and it might largely be making coffee, delivering mail, and taking things to get them signed or filed....but it's better than nothing...

Rakishi		2012-04-22 04:56:05 PM

Gramma: So i am 'graduating' next week with a certification in Software Engineering from the local college. I have an ancient BS in Electrical Engineering and 30 years of experience in communications engineering and programming but nothing since 2009. I live near Detroit. Am I screwed?

That depends on if you've actually kept yourself up to date on the industry or not. Three years is a long time and if you haven't kept up then you're in trouble.

Also, consider moving. Ann Arbor seems to have decent growth but your chances are best if you don't restrict yourself to just the Detroit area.

tootse		2012-04-22 04:56:18 PM

thornhill: Mike_LowELL: LordZorch: On the other hand, Boeing is hiring like mad. Perhaps if studied engineering he'd have a nice paycheck coming in every two weeks and he could fritter his time away writing short stories as a hobby...

So if everybody studies engineering, unemployment goes away?

I have a friend who works for one of the largest aerospace companies as an engineer. He tells me that people are being laid off like crazy because so many government funded projects have been cut (everything from NASA to defense). While these people are finding new jobs at start ups, it's for significantly lower pay and typically requires moving at least several hundred miles. In that industry unless you have a PhD, you pretty much have to start all over again when you change companies.

So while engineering may be a safer college major than art history, things aren't quite as rosy as some here like to make them out to be.

Yeah, moving several hundred miles and lower pay are only slightly more rosy than working as a barista for two years.

monstera		2012-04-22 04:56:30 PM

English major with a concentration in advanced composition and rhetoric.
Director of sales and procurement for $50MM+. I write a lot of convincing emails, and can talk.
If I had to do it over again, or was doing it now, it would be forensic or behavioral economics.
You are welcome.
/ a calculator can't determine the value of a person

Mayor Bee		2012-04-22 04:57:24 PM

Pythagorean Thermos: A few of them are Big 4 firms, but the one I'm most interested in is a forensic accounting firm that deals with a lot of intellectual property/litigation with a splash of IT forensics. Really cool stuff and great pay! And from what I hear the 80 hour weeks in the Big 4 firms are part of what you have to go through if you want to be a controller/CFO. Not always, of course, but it really seems to look good on a resume. It's definitely not my preferred route, but I might do a gig at a Big 4 firm for 3-5 years just for the experience.

Forensics is a great field to go into. I wish I had gone into that 5 years ago instead of construction audit. I didn't make the mistake of going into Big 4. Even though it looks good on a resume, it's not as essential as it was years ago. Once you've got your feet wet (and get a few more letters after your name), you can pretty much take your pick of what you want to do.

Fark It		2012-04-22 04:57:28 PM

fanbladesaresharp: That said,it was a fun ride, but I jumped ship on that idea, because well...commercial art means you make other people look good for chump change, and am back in school now for something actually useful; medicine. Radiology/radiography to be exact. Although I don't think a Doctorate is in the plan. Don't want to be in my 50s with $300k in student loans. But I'm enrolled anyway.

I've spent much of my early 20s dicking around, starting stopping school, etc., but now I'm gearing up for Ultrasound Tech. I have several years of full-time work experience, volunteer work, references lined up to vouch for me getting into the program, etc. It's selective, but I like my chances over a bunch of 19-20 year old snowflakes who think 9:00 is early and wear pajamas to classes that start after noon.

/Associates in DMIS
//the absolute basement of the pay scale is $35 an hour, and will probably be closer to $40 by the time I can enter the work force
///insane bennies, and your employer will pay for you to get your bachelors and masters
////portable internationally so you can travel the world doing temp work, or get a job with Siemen's, GE Healthcare and make ridiculous sales money

Yoyo		2012-04-22 04:58:28 PM

Need_MindBleach: ...
More people with college degrees means you're competing for jobs with people with college degrees. Less people with college degrees means you're competing with people with high school educations for the same jobs. If everyone graduated with an engineering degree, that'd just mean half of them would be sitting at home without a job.

See how that works?

Actually, it doesn't work like that. Consider a job as a bank teller. The bank will only hire university graduates. The engineer and the creative writer are both eligible for this job. Now consider an aerospace company that will only hire scientists and engineers. The engineer is still eligible for this job. Ergo, if everyone got an engineering degree, then all employers could just hire engineers for everything.

Don't ask me why some employers demand an engineering degree, perhaps it's well planned collusion between engineers, accreditation agencies, and state laws, or perhaps it's that engineering degree graduates are all above average in terms of desirable skills like problem solving, etc. Although the way things are going at my alma mater, it might not be long before the engineers are just as abysmal as the rest of the student body. What ever happened to entrance standards?

Too_many_Brians		2012-04-22 04:58:51 PM

Rakishi: PainInTheASP: DId he take the nose ring out when going to interviews?

Too_many_Brians: So you just put your soul in a jar and went for that corporate ring. Did you also enjoy the movie, "Who moved my cheese?"

If your soul is based on a few piercings and long hair then you might want to think long and hard about how much of a soul you have at all. And if you're in fact worse and more dead inside than the "sheep" you make fun of.

No, it is part of an overall thought process in creativity. The ability to control little things (such as personal attire) provides a stronger sense of employment fulfillment than doing something that is completely false. You can only fake it for so long. Now I'm not taking this to the absurd levels that are possible, but closer to a certain societal averages on the curve. Change happens in every generation. Watch "Hair" to see how the older gens had such a problem with anything different. Then they were able to conform them into those sociopaths that are willing to sacrifice all for the corporate good.

Of course, I have also spent my time around enough IT people that wear ties and still havent figured out basic hygiene. There needs to be a variety of thought at most companies otherwise you will become a midlife crisis divorce.

Well not YOU, but I'm sure that your canadian girlfriend will get upset.

/untatted, clean cut, don't want, don't care

Digital Communist		2012-04-22 04:58:58 PM

Need_MindBleach: Digital Communist: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: According to Fark, we'd have zero unemployment if everyone was an engineer or a doctor. Brilliant.

What you are saying is that there are not enough real-world jobs (medicine and engineering) for everyone, so the slow kids might as well take easy programs like philosophy and business because they are a drain on society regardless?

What happens when genuinely smart people are tricked into taking bullshiat arts programs because they sound more interesting but then they end up working at kinkos?

No, he's saying the employment rate would be at or near 50% regardless, because it reflects the number of employers needing employees.
More people with college degrees means you're competing for jobs with people with college degrees. Less people with college degrees means you're competing with people with high school educations for the same jobs. If everyone graduated with an engineering degree, that'd just mean half of them would be sitting at home without a job.

See how that works?

Or maybe those unemployed engineers will be pressed to use their talents to create new technologies and new markets. Wannabe arts students can take trades instead and have well paying jobs and be productive members of society instead of whiny entitled wankers.

The way I see it, convincing young people to take the arts is a lose/lose situation for us a society.

meyerkev		2012-04-22 04:59:20 PM

TWX: Now I have a beard that's more than two inches long, and my wife is bugging me to get it trimmed back. I might just do that at some point soon. I also understand that if I desire new work at a different employer I might have to shave it, or at least ensure it's styled in a way that doesn't give an air of distrust. I just don't like the maintenance of shaving daily.

I hate you.

/Has a beard. Took 6 months to grow a half an inch.
//Still has to shave because there's random hair that doesn't fit the beard.

TomD9938		2012-04-22 04:59:25 PM

RoundMidnight: go to college and for once in your life think broadly. Take a lot of classes in different departments and figure out what you actually want to do

I dont know if that's good advice or not. It does reflect my non-degreed college experience however.

I treated college like a buffet, taking science and humanity courses and even minus the degree feel like I benefited greatly from it.

I dropped out after a couple of years when I was offered a trade-position at a start up of a former employer from my high school years.

I still do business with him and his circle on occasion all these 26 years later.

/network, network, network...
//and be competent...

Gramma		2012-04-22 05:00:32 PM

SpeedyBB: Gramma: So i am 'graduating' next week with a certification in Software Engineering from the local college. I have an ancient BS in Electrical Engineering and 30 years of experience in communications engineering and programming but nothing since 2009. I live near Detroit. Am I screwed?

Are you lucky?

(quote borrowed from Napoleon, allegedly anyway)

It probably matters little. You're old (but not as old as this humble Farker). So you're screwed. From all I've seen and heard anyway.

Yest, I have always been lucky. I really ought to play the lottery. I want to go into programming embedded systems and an EE and SE combo may look pretty good to employers.Hopefully.Even if I am old.

Digital Communist		2012-04-22 05:00:34 PM

lilplatinum: Digital Communist: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: According to Fark, we'd have zero unemployment if everyone was an engineer or a doctor. Brilliant.

What you are saying is that there are not enough real-world jobs (medicine and engineering) for everyone, so the slow kids might as well take easy programs like philosophy and business because they are a drain on society regardless?

What happens when genuinely smart people are tricked into taking bullshiat arts programs because they sound more interesting but then they end up working at kinkos?

Genuinely smart people tend to get ahead regardless of what their degree is. Generally the people who are ahead of the people with engineering degrees who can barely communicate with other human beings hold degrees like philosophy and business...

Please elaborate on the highlighted sentence, I don't understand what you are trying to say.

PhDemented		2012-04-22 05:00:35 PM

Scientician: UCFRoadWarrior: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: According to Fark, we'd have zero unemployment if everyone was an engineer or a doctor. Brilliant.

According to Fark: There are no H1B visas bringing in foreigners to work for 1/10th of what engineers or doctors make.

Anyone who thinks engineering (especially) and medical are sure bets...you are dreaming. They are replacing Americans with lower paid foreigners in those fields.

Agreed. I'm finishing up a PhD in chemistry and struggling to find an industrial position since a lot of companies have decided they'd rather outsource synthetic work. I was encouraged to get a PhD so I wouldn't hit a glass ceiling in the workforce, but sometimes I wonder if all I've done is make myself unemployable.

/but hey, i can make drugs

PhD in Biomedical Engineering, along with my fiance... been unemployed since graduation (6 months running), along with most of the fellows of my class who are citizens. All the foreign students got grabbed up on work visas. Every job I've applied to has 200+ applicants... if I'm lucky I get a 'no thanks' response 3 weeks later, 2/3 never even get back to you.

Current market for recent graduates with PhDs is horrible... average pay is down ~25% over a few years back (to about what the BS students got 6 years ago). Pretty much listings only for BS students or for PhDs with 10+ years in industry, nothing at all for recent grads.

Pythagorean Thermos		2012-04-22 05:00:41 PM

Mayor Bee: Pythagorean Thermos: A few of them are Big 4 firms, but the one I'm most interested in is a forensic accounting firm that deals with a lot of intellectual property/litigation with a splash of IT forensics. Really cool stuff and great pay! And from what I hear the 80 hour weeks in the Big 4 firms are part of what you have to go through if you want to be a controller/CFO. Not always, of course, but it really seems to look good on a resume. It's definitely not my preferred route, but I might do a gig at a Big 4 firm for 3-5 years just for the experience.

Forensics is a great field to go into. I wish I had gone into that 5 years ago instead of construction audit. I didn't make the mistake of going into Big 4. Even though it looks good on a resume, it's not as essential as it was years ago. Once you've got your feet wet (and get a few more letters after your name), you can pretty much take your pick of what you want to do.

Thanks for the advice. Busy season in a Big 4 company sounds like hell... Plus all the bureaucratic crap involved with promotions and the like seems like a little too much drama for my tastes.

Atomic Spunk		2012-04-22 05:00:59 PM

Mayor Bee: Pythagorean Thermos: As someone finishing up my undergrad in accounting and jumping right into my Master's and multiple employers already talking about job offers after I get my graduate degree, I'd say that as far as job placement, accountants have it better than those precious engineers...
/There are 3 things certain in life
//Death, Taxes, and jobs for accountants

As long as those multiple employers aren't Big 4 accounting firms, I'd say you've got a bright future ahead of you. If you're considering audit/attest for a public firm, however, I'd say you've got a lot of 80 hour weeks (on salary), seniors and leads that don't know how to train, and managers and partners that don't want to hear about seniors and leads that don't know how to train. Good luck!

Certainly true in some cases. When I first started, some of my seniors were duds, but most were really smart and helpful. The real benefit of Big 4 experience is that it opens a lot of doors that wouldn't open to people who worked for local firms, or even second-tier firms like Grant Thorton. But the hours were horrendous. I did almost 4 years, and during that time, I aged 8 years.

For those who choose the CFO track in a Fortune 500 firm, Big 4 experience can be almost a prerequisite. But now that I'm self employed, it doesn't make much difference at all to my clients that I worked for PwC. Their eyes glaze over if I even mention it, so I no longer bring it up.

tootse		2012-04-22 05:03:00 PM

UCFRoadWarrior: p the boiler: I love the Lib Arts bashing. I get it you were a nerd, people picked on you and now you are an engineer so you want to try to be the bully.

Yes...and lets see the Engineer people come down to my area of Florida and see if they can find work after NASA scaled down.

All this push for Science and Math degrees in a service-based economy is GOP Business Socialist nonsense. As one manager of a business so succinctly put it: "Why do I want to hire a Mathematician at $70,000 when I can use the calculator on my cell phone to do my computations?"

Are you and your manager confusing Arithmetic with Mathematics again?

/never seen a more wrong and hilarious use of the word 'succinct'.

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom		2012-04-22 05:05:18 PM

tootse: UCFRoadWarrior: p the boiler: I love the Lib Arts bashing. I get it you were a nerd, people picked on you and now you are an engineer so you want to try to be the bully.

Yes...and lets see the Engineer people come down to my area of Florida and see if they can find work after NASA scaled down.

All this push for Science and Math degrees in a service-based economy is GOP Business Socialist nonsense. As one manager of a business so succinctly put it: "Why do I want to hire a Mathematician at $70,000 when I can use the calculator on my cell phone to do my computations?"

Are you and your manager confusing Arithmetic with Mathematics again?

/never seen a more wrong and hilarious use of the word 'succinct'.

Reminds me of my friend who is an assistant to a hospital administrator. The administrator was all like, "Why should I hire a doctor at $220K when I can just use WebMD? Look, I even have it bookmarked."

PlatypusPuke		2012-04-22 05:05:29 PM

Creative writing?

Maybe this is what we get for telling youngsters they can grown up to be anything they want..

Bigglesworth III		2012-04-22 05:06:24 PM

There are plenty of people out there who want to become actors, graphic designers, writers, lawyers, musicians, and whatnot. In ten years time, they see themselves in dream positions that are far and few apart: screening their films at festivals, playing cello in an orchestra, at the editorial desk of their favorite publisher. Sure, it could happen, but no one ever tells them that there are only so many shoes in the world that can be filled at a given time. Instead, they're told, "go to school, study what interests you, pursue your dreams, and the rest will follow."

RockChalkH1N1		2012-04-22 05:06:56 PM

verbaltoxin		2012-04-22 05:07:11 PM

LordZorch:
I think I see the problem - he's an idiot.

On the other hand, Boeing is hiring like mad. Perhaps if studied engineering he'd have a nice paycheck coming in every two weeks and he could fritter his time away writing short stories as a hobby...

I see I got here late and the Standard Fark Jobs Thread Comment has been issued already.

Some people just aren't good at math, but are good at history, art, writing, painting and other things. I got an art degree, and perhaps the worst thing that came out of it was that my educators didn't stress enough just how hard, competitive and small the art world is, and if you even want to buy a sandwich with your art, you have to hustle and hustle hard. I do think the world could make a better effort at commissioning more artists and sponsoring more art shows, but I don't think we are obligated as a society to do it.

I think humanities education got stale and chopped to bits ages ago as more and more students came in wanting "business," "liberal arts" and "management" degrees that were supposed to get these people "a job" (As in just a nice paying job somewhere, no real detail after that), but didn't do anything to teach them anything or gear them towards an actual career or field of study. In my case, I wanted to be a graphic designer, until I finally learned what one did, and then I didn't want to be one anymore. But by that point my degree was pretty much done, so I got the piece of paper and eventually joined the military. I'm starting MIS Master's courses next month.

/I'm an engineer now, for what it's worth, but I still play guitar, bass, sing, etc., and I love history and folklore.

Kar98		2012-04-22 05:08:19 PM

Gramma: Kar98: Gramma: So i am 'graduating' next week with a certification in Software Engineering from the local college. I have an ancient BS in Electrical Engineering and 30 years of experience in communications engineering and programming but nothing since 2009. I live near Detroit. Am I screwed?

Well, what do you know about internet telephony?

I installed a system of about 100 users and did all the specs for the QOS on the mpls tie lines. So, some, but not as much as I'd like. Also did MAC for the system.

Eh, more than I know. Shouldn't be a problem to find a decent paying job, as in, twice your student loans annual salary, right out of college.

bearcats1983		2012-04-22 05:10:00 PM

It's not your degree (mostly), it's your experience once you graduate. I only had one internship in college; a marketing/promotions position with a pro soccer team. I should've started looking for internships my freshmen year and had a new one every summer.

The biggest problem I had when I graduated was my lack of connections and work experience. Multiple internships would've really helped me out.

ph0rk		2012-04-22 05:10:01 PM

Finity999: Before you cry "Oh woe is me!" about the job market, start applying for any opportunity that is remotely relative to your skill set. I guess more and more people my age are prone to wanting to live at home with mommy and daddy until they can get their $50k a year dream job.

Do you really think $50k is a dream job?

over the years 2006-2010, roughly 29% of people aged 25-30 had a BA or BS (or better).

That same age group had a median income of 20k over the same period (though only about 17.5k in 2010).

That median jumps to 28.5k if you restrict them to only those aged 25-30 with a BA/BS or better.

If you restrict this to full time employed persons aged 25-30 with a BA or better only, the median income is 33079. 36k in 2010(!).

My sample gets vanishingly small at this point, but I was all set to argue that $50k isn't a dream job, but maybe it is.

Median personal income is only $33,079 (age 25+, fulltime workers, all education levels). Jesus.

Mytch		2012-04-22 05:10:14 PM

UCFRoadWarrior: p the boiler: I love the Lib Arts bashing. I get it you were a nerd, people picked on you and now you are an engineer so you want to try to be the bully.

Yes...and lets see the Engineer people come down to my area of Florida and see if they can find work after NASA scaled down.

All this push for Science and Math degrees in a service-based economy is GOP Business Socialist nonsense. As one manager of a business so succinctly put it: "Why do I want to hire a Mathematician at $70,000 when I can use the calculator on my cell phone to do my computations?"

I think the manager has confused cashier with an actual applied mathematics field, like say engineering or every single science field.

We're going to build a rocket? Okay, hold on, let me download the 'build a rocket' app.

verbaltoxin		2012-04-22 05:10:53 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: tootse: UCFRoadWarrior: p the boiler: I love the Lib Arts bashing. I get it you were a nerd, people picked on you and now you are an engineer so you want to try to be the bully.

Yes...and lets see the Engineer people come down to my area of Florida and see if they can find work after NASA scaled down.

All this push for Science and Math degrees in a service-based economy is GOP Business Socialist nonsense. As one manager of a business so succinctly put it: "Why do I want to hire a Mathematician at $70,000 when I can use the calculator on my cell phone to do my computations?"

Are you and your manager confusing Arithmetic with Mathematics again?

/never seen a more wrong and hilarious use of the word 'succinct'.

Reminds me of my friend who is an assistant to a hospital administrator. The administrator was all like, "Why should I hire a doctor at $220K when I can just use WebMD? Look, I even have it bookmarked."

And that reminds me of the very beginning of Monty Python and the Meaning of Life where the hospital admin walks in and the doctors turn all the machines on, and the admin asks what's going on, and the doctors tell him it's a birth, and the hospital admin is clueless as to what sort of thing that is.

Wenike		2012-04-22 05:11:23 PM

mc_madness: Get your kids focused on a healthcare profession.

America is getting fatter and older and Americans generally take shiatty care of themselves.

Healthcare profession jobs are guaranteed bank and fun.

Considering I'm in the healthcare profession (tangetially though, since I provide tech support to those who actually provide the healthcare), I'd have to disagree with your notion of "fun".

FilmBELOH20		2012-04-22 05:11:38 PM

WI241TH: Mef: WI241TH: LordZorch: On the other hand, Boeing is hiring like mad.

They hire many chemical engineers? 'Cause uh, 8 hours a week at Macy's isn't cutting it these days.

Lots of people looking for ChemEs, especially if you're willing to move.

One place to start: AIChE's Career Engineer

Sweet thanks

I have no idea what a Chemical Engineer does, but I'd be willing to bet that if you looked in the Bakken Oil area, you'd be hired on the spot. They're paying high school kids $60k a year so I would imagine someone of your education level would do quite well. Of course, it's North Dakota, so there is that.... But if you're interested I know lots of guys in the biz. EIP...

ThematicDevice		2012-04-22 05:12:15 PM

Yoyo: Ergo, if everyone got an engineering degree, then all employers could just hire engineers for everything.

You really can't. The only people who think that way are the substandard engineering managers who steadily run their department into the ground because they're not able to correctly assess peoples strengths and motivations in order to place them in the right job.

thornhill		2012-04-22 05:13:29 PM

tootse: thornhill: Mike_LowELL: LordZorch: On the other hand, Boeing is hiring like mad. Perhaps if studied engineering he'd have a nice paycheck coming in every two weeks and he could fritter his time away writing short stories as a hobby...

So if everybody studies engineering, unemployment goes away?

I have a friend who works for one of the largest aerospace companies as an engineer. He tells me that people are being laid off like crazy because so many government funded projects have been cut (everything from NASA to defense). While these people are finding new jobs at start ups, it's for significantly lower pay and typically requires moving at least several hundred miles. In that industry unless you have a PhD, you pretty much have to start all over again when you change companies.

So while engineering may be a safer college major than art history, things aren't quite as rosy as some here like to make them out to be.

Yeah, moving several hundred miles and lower pay are only slightly more rosy than working as a barista for two years.

When you're in your mid 30s with kids, it's pretty problematic.

Bob_Laublaw		2012-04-22 05:14:08 PM

A friend's 22-year-old son finished up a poli-sci degree last year and landed a job alongside his 25-year-old HS dropout brother, working the oilfields for about 60K to start. Not many folks care for 3 weeks on/1 week off in the far north, but the 25-year-old now owns his house outright. My point? Don't have one, just biding time between fapping sessions.

TheShavingofOccam123		2012-04-22 05:15:11 PM

Blames Wall Street.

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom		2012-04-22 05:15:14 PM

Bob_Laublaw: A friend's 22-year-old son finished up a poli-sci degree last year and landed a job alongside his 25-year-old HS dropout brother, working the oilfields for about 60K to start. Not many folks care for 3 weeks on/1 week off in the far north, but the 25-year-old now owns his house outright. My point? Don't have one, just biding time between fapping sessions.

Are they hiring wolf hunters? I'd like to be a pipeline wolf hunter.

BHK		2012-04-22 05:15:56 PM

If you want to follow your passions, then sometimes expecting another to give you a job isn't going to work. Especially in this climate where companies are risk adverse. Start your own business. Unless you are pulling double shifts at Starbucks, there's another 8 hours a day to get something going on your own. Creative writing? Great! Write stuff. Give it away. Blog. Intern for small businesses that can't pay a lot for writing but need some of that creativity, and use them to get great recommendations for better work.

Whatever skill you have, you can turn it into business, but it takes a lot of work and a willingness to spend more time at work than hanging out with friends after the shift at the coffee shop/mall store/pizza delivery job is over. Or, if you've got that job at the starbucks/cafe/mall chain, do a *really* good job. Show yourself as management material. Practice your public speaking skills, your writing skills, and do things for the company that the other schleps aren't doing. You'll get noticed and promoted, or recruited away.

Yoyo		2012-04-22 05:17:37 PM

ThematicDevice: Yoyo: Ergo, if everyone got an engineering degree, then all employers could just hire engineers for everything.

You really can't. The only people who think that way are the substandard engineering managers who steadily run their department into the ground because they're not able to correctly assess peoples strengths and motivations in order to place them in the right job.

Sure, there are some engineers that suck at personnel management, but there are also some engineers that do it well. Just 'cause one guy or gal can't do a particular job, doesn't mean that they all can't. You don't need to major in HR to manage people.

What job is there that requires only a bachelor's degree that will not accept an engineering bachelor's?

Sketch Artist		2012-04-22 05:18:51 PM

Although I do think this generation of graduates has unrealistically high expectations, there are some of us who know full well that we studied rather impractical subjects (often in the arts). I graduated in 2009 with a degree in anthropology, but I wasn't under any illusions about finding a fantastic, interesting job straight away. Instead I took whatever random jobs cropped up wherever I lived at the time - office work/admin, substitute teaching, etc, and spent some time traveling. When I blew through most of my money, I got a longer-term job and gained some good experience doing financial work for a small property management company.

Now I'm at a loose end because my work visa is expired (UK) and it's pretty near impossible to find an employer wanting to sponsor a non-EU citizen, so it's back to the US within the next 6 months to take my chances at finding a 'proper' job... I know I'm not the best at long-term planning but I'm not kicking myself for any of my decisions. I think a big part of being an adult is learning to accept responsibility for yourself and your choices - quite a few of my peers are still struggling with that concept.

verbaltoxin		2012-04-22 05:18:59 PM

Yoyo: ThematicDevice: Yoyo: Ergo, if everyone got an engineering degree, then all employers could just hire engineers for everything.

You really can't. The only people who think that way are the substandard engineering managers who steadily run their department into the ground because they're not able to correctly assess peoples strengths and motivations in order to place them in the right job.

Sure, there are some engineers that suck at personnel management, but there are also some engineers that do it well. Just 'cause one guy or gal can't do a particular job, doesn't mean that they all can't. You don't need to major in HR to manage people.

What job is there that requires only a bachelor's degree that will not accept an engineering bachelor's?

If there is one thing that will bring the engineering and creative arts Farkers together, it's their hatred of human resources.

T.M.S.		2012-04-22 05:21:21 PM

Working successfully in the arts dosent have much to do with school or degrees. No one really gives a crap where you graduated from or even if you finished school at all.

The sad truth is most people who enter the arts suck at what they do. And many of the ones that have talent they often lack any real drive or ambition.

There has never been a time on earth where the ability to be creative has been more important toward success. And there has never been a better time than now to show the world what you can do.

Mock26		2012-04-22 05:21:32 PM

This is why we need to stop telling kids that in order to be successful they have to have a college degree! Just look at all of the people who are carrying huge student loan debt, have a college degree, and are making minimum wage working at places like Starbucks!

The_Original_Roxtar		2012-04-22 05:22:35 PM

verbaltoxin: Yoyo: ThematicDevice: Yoyo: Ergo, if everyone got an engineering degree, then all employers could just hire engineers for everything.

You really can't. The only people who think that way are the substandard engineering managers who steadily run their department into the ground because they're not able to correctly assess peoples strengths and motivations in order to place them in the right job.

Sure, there are some engineers that suck at personnel management, but there are also some engineers that do it well. Just 'cause one guy or gal can't do a particular job, doesn't mean that they all can't. You don't need to major in HR to manage people.

What job is there that requires only a bachelor's degree that will not accept an engineering bachelor's?

If there is one thing that will bring the engineering and creative arts Farkers together, it's their hatred of human resources.

From what i've been able to discern, in order to work in HR, you have to have the following qualities:
1. Be a moron
2. Be a sadist
3. Be offended by everything
4. Desire that no other person has any fun whatsoever

Smackledorfer		2012-04-22 05:24:37 PM

They should all be plumbers, welders, and specialized factory workers. It's fool proof.

tootse		2012-04-22 05:25:40 PM

thornhill: tootse: thornhill: Mike_LowELL: LordZorch: On the other hand, Boeing is hiring like mad. Perhaps if studied engineering he'd have a nice paycheck coming in every two weeks and he could fritter his time away writing short stories as a hobby...

So if everybody studies engineering, unemployment goes away?

I have a friend who works for one of the largest aerospace companies as an engineer. He tells me that people are being laid off like crazy because so many government funded projects have been cut (everything from NASA to defense). While these people are finding new jobs at start ups, it's for significantly lower pay and typically requires moving at least several hundred miles. In that industry unless you have a PhD, you pretty much have to start all over again when you change companies.

So while engineering may be a safer college major than art history, things aren't quite as rosy as some here like to make them out to be.

Yeah, moving several hundred miles and lower pay are only slightly more rosy than working as a barista for two years.

When you're in your mid 30s with kids, it's pretty problematic.

Again, given the alternate scenario of no job and subsequently, no house or working as a barista, I think it is not a ghastly bad alternative. I know several folks who will travel Mon-Thurs for a job and be back with their families for the weekend.

verbaltoxin		2012-04-22 05:25:56 PM

The_Original_Roxtar: verbaltoxin: Yoyo: ThematicDevice: Yoyo: Ergo, if everyone got an engineering degree, then all employers could just hire engineers for everything.

You really can't. The only people who think that way are the substandard engineering managers who steadily run their department into the ground because they're not able to correctly assess peoples strengths and motivations in order to place them in the right job.

Sure, there are some engineers that suck at personnel management, but there are also some engineers that do it well. Just 'cause one guy or gal can't do a particular job, doesn't mean that they all can't. You don't need to major in HR to manage people.

What job is there that requires only a bachelor's degree that will not accept an engineering bachelor's?

If there is one thing that will bring the engineering and creative arts Farkers together, it's their hatred of human resources.

From what i've been able to discern, in order to work in HR, you have to have the following qualities:
1. Be a moron
2. Be a sadist
3. Be offended by everything
4. Desire that no other person has any fun whatsoever

5. Be young and female

There is at least *one* good thing in HR, if you are young and single. But since HR is the soulless, guileless wall between you and a job, she might not even bang you because you're an unemployed street urchin.

Or maybe she will, to piss off daddy.

Life's a gamble, I say. Roll the bones.

gnoshyt_sherlocque		2012-04-22 05:26:08 PM

Let's figure this out.

Student "A" goes into the guidance counselors office. " I want to be a creative writer". He says.

The guidance counselor looks at his computer. There are 46 empty seats in the English Department. 46 seats times $200,000 in tuition equals $9,200,000.00

Guidance Counselor begins "Creative Writing is a hot field right now. This is where you belong. Sign here."

Mef		2012-04-22 05:26:24 PM

FilmBELOH20: WI241TH: Mef: WI241TH: LordZorch: On the other hand, Boeing is hiring like mad.

They hire many chemical engineers? 'Cause uh, 8 hours a week at Macy's isn't cutting it these days.

Lots of people looking for ChemEs, especially if you're willing to move.

One place to start: AIChE's Career Engineer

Sweet thanks

I have no idea what a Chemical Engineer does, but I'd be willing to bet that if you looked in the Bakken Oil area, you'd be hired on the spot. They're paying high school kids $60k a year so I would imagine someone of your education level would do quite well. Of course, it's North Dakota, so there is that.... But if you're interested I know lots of guys in the biz. EIP...

Ah yeah, that's another one....Anyone with a remotely technical degree who doesn't mind working rough hours in rough places and spending a lot of time away from home can make a premium in the oil patch -- Rigzone can give you an idea of what's out there, but certainly not an exhaustive list (busiest areas right now in the US are probably North Dakota, Texas/Louisiana border, and Ohio/Pennsylvania border). Might not be what you thought you'd be doing and might not be directly in your field, but it can help pay down student loans in a hurry.

Mytch		2012-04-22 05:26:31 PM

Mock26: This is why we need to stop telling kids that in order to be successful they have to have a college degree! Just look at all of the people who are carrying huge student loan debt, have a college degree, and are making minimum wage working at places like Starbucks!

And thus perpetuating the existence of Starbucks. The fact that my university has a Starbucks inside one of the student halls is a chilling reminder of what awaits lazy students who anticipate a land of emerald green grass post-graduation.

wildcardjack		2012-04-22 05:26:36 PM

Mike_LowELL: So if everybody studies engineering, unemployment goes away?

As someone who graduated with a BSME in 2007, no. I've never actually used it. And I've never held a "job" since then. But I did have to pay $14k in income taxes for 2011.

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