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(Denver Post)   Tossing mud balls containing flower and vegetable seeds into vacant lots is the "cool" and "radical" way to prove you're a revolutionary, bomb-throwing hipster   (denverpost.com) divider line 200
    More: Asinine  
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10995 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Apr 2012 at 11:22 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-22 01:00:54 AM  

HiFiGuy: "Gran tells her students - most of whom were born in the 1980s - that guerrilla gardening dates from the late-1960s establishment of People's Park in Berkeley, Calif., when a disused patch of land near the University of California campus was co-opted by the community and reimagined as a public green."

Disused? Housing and Dining Services was in the midst of putting a new residence hall there. They had torn down the buildings and were going to start construction on some new buildings.


Shh, don't disturb the hippies with facts that don't agree with their fabricated memories. You'll just get them riled up and start again with the rants of their little life fictions such as being the force behind civil rights, changing the world, etc, etc. Do you really want that? Doesn't it happen enough as it is?
 
2012-04-22 01:01:29 AM  
Crazy hippies. Next thing you know they'll be growing their own fruits, vegetables and flowers. How gauche.
 
2012-04-22 01:03:32 AM  

whatshisname: buckler: BarkingUnicorn: In the middle of the article is the truth: these morons just toss their seeds and hope they grow all on their own. It doesn't work that way, as anyone who's actually gardened will tell you.

Yes, seeds in earth don't just magically grow. They need constant tending by gardeners and botanists to survive, as nature has taught us by its history over eons.

Anything that's not native won't be able to compete with the weeds


And as I noted above, anything just tossed on the surface mostly won't be able to survive the birds. Wild seeds survive by co-evolving with the birds and other animals they use for dispersal; and by mass-production. A handful of lettuce seeds tossed out in the open won't last a day.
 
2012-04-22 01:05:43 AM  

Gyrfalcon: whatshisname: buckler: BarkingUnicorn: In the middle of the article is the truth: these morons just toss their seeds and hope they grow all on their own. It doesn't work that way, as anyone who's actually gardened will tell you.

Yes, seeds in earth don't just magically grow. They need constant tending by gardeners and botanists to survive, as nature has taught us by its history over eons.

Anything that's not native won't be able to compete with the weeds

And as I noted above, anything just tossed on the surface mostly won't be able to survive the birds. Wild seeds survive by co-evolving with the birds and other animals they use for dispersal; and by mass-production. A handful of lettuce seeds tossed out in the open won't last a day.


Then they'll grow elsewhere. Still not bad.
 
2012-04-22 01:06:46 AM  

Gyrfalcon: whatshisname: buckler: BarkingUnicorn: In the middle of the article is the truth: these morons just toss their seeds and hope they grow all on their own. It doesn't work that way, as anyone who's actually gardened will tell you.

Yes, seeds in earth don't just magically grow. They need constant tending by gardeners and botanists to survive, as nature has taught us by its history over eons.

Anything that's not native won't be able to compete with the weeds

And as I noted above, anything just tossed on the surface mostly won't be able to survive the birds. Wild seeds survive by co-evolving with the birds and other animals they use for dispersal; and by mass-production. A handful of lettuce seeds tossed out in the open won't last a day.


I think a lot of it depends on climate and rainfall, too. But generally the seeds if they germinate won't be able to establish themselves in the hard soil directly underneath them.
 
2012-04-22 01:08:25 AM  

HiFiGuy: "Gran tells her students - most of whom were born in the 1980s - that guerrilla gardening dates from the late-1960s establishment of People's Park in Berkeley, Calif., when a disused patch of land near the University of California campus was co-opted by the community and reimagined as a public green."

Disused? Housing and Dining Services was in the midst of putting a new residence hall there. They had torn down the buildings and were going to start construction on some new buildings.



In 1956, the Regents of the University of California allocated a 2.8-acre (11,000 m2) plot of land containing residences for future development into student housing, parking and offices as part of the university's "Long Range Plan for Expansion." At the time, funds were lacking to buy the land, and the plan was shelved until June 1967, when the university acquired $1.3 million to take the land through the process of eminent domain (compulsory purchase). After taking control of the land, neighborhood residents were evicted and demolition of homes began.[5]

By 1967, the university had altered its plan; the new plan was to build a student parking lot and a playing field on the land. Demolition of the residences took more than a year, and the university ran out of development funds, leaving the lot only partially cleared of demolition debris and rubble. It remained in this state for over a year, and as winter began the muddy site became derelict with abandoned cars.[5][6]

On 13 April 1969, local merchants and residents held a meeting to discuss possible uses for the derelict site. Michael Delacour presented a plan for developing the under-utilized, university-owned land into a public park. This plan was approved by the attendees, but not by the university. Stew Albert, a co-founder of the Yippie Party, agreed to write an article for the local counter-culture newspaper, the Berkeley Barb, on the subject of the park, particularly to call for help from local residents.[5]

Michael Delacour stated, "We wanted a free speech area that wasn't really controlled like Sproul Plaza was. It was another place to organize, another place to have a rally. The park was secondary."[7] The university's Free Speech microphone was available to all students, with few if any restrictions on speech. The construction of the park involved many of the same people and politics as the 1964 Free Speech Movement.[8]

On 18 April 1969, Albert's article appeared in the Berkeley Barb, and on Sunday, 20 April 1969, over 100 people arrived at the site to begin building the park. Local landscape architect Jon Read and many others contributed trees, flowers, shrubs, and sod. Free food was provided and community development of the park proceeded. Eventually, about 1,000 people became directly involved, with many more donating money and materials. The park was essentially complete by mid-May.[5][6][7]

Frank Bardacke, a participant in the park's development, stated in a documentary film called Berkeley in the Sixties, "A group of people took some corporate land, owned by the University of California, that was a parking lot and turned it into a park and then said, 'We're using the land better than you used it; it's ours'".[8]

On 28 April 1969, Berkeley Vice Chancellor Earl Cheit released plans for a sports field to be built on the site. This plan conflicted with the plans of the People's Park activists. However, Vice Chancellor Cheit stated that he would take no action without notifying the park builders. Two days later, on April 30, he decided to allocate control over one quarter of the plot to the Park's builders. On 6 May 1969, Chancellor Heyns held a meeting with members of the People's Park committee, student representatives, and faculty from the College of Environmental Design. He set a time limit of three weeks for this group to produce a plan for the park, and he reiterated his promise that construction would not begin without prior warning.
 
2012-04-22 01:09:08 AM  

GilRuiz1: taurusowner:
No, it doesn't harm anyone and it's perfectly fine for them to do their thing on their sacred mountain. But their perception of their tiny little efforts as phenomenal feats of staggering importance ... you just gotta laugh.


I smile when I see pretty flower gardens.

To me, that makes the world a better place. I'm a damn cynic most of the time, but live plants and flowers make me happy; even many weeds. If you're that much more cynical than I am, I feel sorry for you.
 
2012-04-22 01:10:57 AM  

gojirast: Aulus: OK, let's take this a step further.

Aging hippies and other Earth Day simpletons "take over" a vacant lot and plant a "people's garden."

Now, what happens when some John/Jane Q. Public comes along, sees it and says, "Cool! 'People's Garden!' I guess I can take what I want." and does so.

Except...

he or she breaks a leg not watching where he or she steps, or comes across some poison ivy missed in the cultivation, gets seriously sick because some bright boy decided that the most natural way to fertilize the garden is with human sewage.

Who's liable? The absentee owner of the lot, as they didn't put a stop to this take over? The hipsters doing the planting? The city for not regulating the whole thing?

Fun times.

/yeah, I know, buzz kill
//spent too much times in insurance claims

The person at fault would be the person who went for the free food with the deepest pockets.


FTFY since you are clearly new to the whole lawsuit thing.
 
2012-04-22 01:12:54 AM  
Subby is why we can't have nice things.
 
2012-04-22 01:15:08 AM  

JNowe: HailRobonia: Balls of dirt? Those are for amateurs. Skilled folks use a bow and arrow.

*sigh* I miss Thief: The Dark Project.


Best game I ever played.

As for urban gardening, this is a fairly interesting read from someone who took a weird but committed approach to it. Hard to picture "hipsters" dumpster diving for slop to feed their pigs.

/nothing wrong with tossing some seeds around
//but some people can sound asinine about anything
 
2012-04-22 01:15:35 AM  
I've thought about it with some of my seeds, but I know what happens. The city just comes in with roundup.

Way to go people!
 
2012-04-22 01:17:33 AM  

HBK: taurusowner:
Weeds grow and need to be mowed, with or without help. There's this thing called "nature" and it's found a lot of good ways to distribute seeds without human help. Dandelion seeds blowing in the wind, squirrels burring acorns and seeds, etc. Take any patch of dirt, and shiats gonna start growing there with or without "activist gardening". If it's not flowers and veggies, it's gonna be crab grass and dandelions.

Sure, over time. The process generally takes a lot longer if you aren't actively throwing weeds at it.



Is that so? I wish you'd explain that to all the weeds constantly trying to invade my garden and pavement.

I've got close to 300 sq feet of garden, the whole shebang covered in plastic sheeting to help control weeds, retain moisture and help keep the soil warm. I cut these small holes - just a few inches across - for my veggies to come up through. Not only is keeping weeds out of those holes a never ending battle, but the farking weeds try to grow on TOP of the farking plastic too. I have a path made of pavers on top of the plastic so I can keep from tearing up the sheeting as I tend to the garden and the damn weeds will even grow between the pavers without soil. It's really amazing.

It's also relentless. I am constantly tearing weeds out, and new ones are constantly springing up. The guy you're responding too is right. Many weeds are just relentless and they're going to grow no matter what you do and it's not going to take very long at all. Days or weeks, not years or months. They're evolutionary survivors forged in the crucible of life - a never ending cycle of life eating life.

And I seriously can't believe how dead inside some people are to whine and belittle people just for preferring pretty flowers grew in vacant lots instead of ugly weeds and spending the utterly minimal effort it takes to make it happen and pretty up their neighborhoods. Seriously, how shiatty of a childhood must some of you have had to be so joyless and dull as to be a douche about something like that? Kill yourselves. Just get it over with, put a gun in your mouth and pull the trigger already and end your suffering you joyless, miserable farks. Life is unbearably painful for you, even if you're too cowardly to admit it to yourselves yet, but you can make all the pain go away if you just make the world a better place for the rest of us by killing yourselves.


BarkingUnicorn: There seems to be a lot of confusion here about what this "seed bombing" accomplishes. The article mixes info about REAL urban gardening in with this frivolous mudball-tossing, leading the gullible to think that food and flowers are flourishing.

In the middle of the article is the truth: these morons just toss their seeds and hope they grow all on their own. It doesn't work that way, as anyone who's actually gardened will tell you.



Yeah, I've seen some of the urban gardens in DC and I always think they're pretty cool. Some fresh veggies for the folks in a shiatty part of town. Nothing wrong with it at all, and it's a very relaxing and healthy hobby. And it's so satisfying to eat stuff you grow, I'm sure just as much for them as it is for me out in the burbs. I grow enough tomatoes that my wife cans the excess and we pretty much never have to buy any tomato based anything from the store all year. And growing different heirloom varieties means they taste better too.

As far as tossing the seeds and hoping they grow all on their own......... well, maybe yes and maybe no. The devil is in the details there. It all depends on what seeds you're tossing, where and how many. Plants are little machines. Throw the ones with the right specs and you'll get results. And if you're not sure, just throw a whole bunch of different kinds and the right ones will crowd out the ones less suited to where they landed.

There are beautiful flowers which will grow fairly aggressively. There isn't really a bright line in between "weed" and "not weed", the distinction can be very subjective. Something we appreciate here might be a weed in another part of the world. I don't like dandelions - a very aggressive and hardy plant which springs up magically farking everywhere - but in other places they eat them, make tea out of them and presumably appreciate their yellow flowers more than I do.

I'm sure I have some flower seeds in my seed storage which would do quite nicely all on their own when mixed with some wet mud and tossed into a vacant lot. Most veggies require a good deal of care and maintenance, but there are gourds and squashes which are pretty aggressive and beans too. There's even a type of spinach which, so long as you plant it in hot weather, will grow pretty aggressively and is considered a weed in many other parts of the world. I'm planting it in my own garden for the first time this year, and just built trellises for it.
 
2012-04-22 01:23:58 AM  

HBK: Canned Tamales: HBK: Canned Tamales: GilRuiz1: "Guerrilla gardening is urban gardening and food justice.

[i224.photobucket.com image 363x310]

Gee, Gil, what's it like being such a micro-dick little piece of shiat, anyway?

That's quite the overreaction. Are you sure you aren't the one overcompensating for something?

Ad hominem attacks prove you're smart!

You've already proved what an idiotic, cynical, overinflated asshole you are. Complaining about "weeds" in a place that either is already, or will be within weeks, covered in actual "weeds", and acting like you had a point. All so you can feel superior to people who enjoy their lives peacefully. Go suck off your brother in stupidity or whatever else talking manure does for fun.

//you guys are sooooo cooooool. God, I hope I can be as cool as you someday.

You certainly are a ball of fun. When do you graduate from high school?


You should read your own shiat.

I'm all about live and let live, but man, you do come across as some kind of stick up the ass, holier than thou, farktard.

Don't sweat it man, I'll get off your lawn.
 
2012-04-22 01:24:19 AM  

mongbiohazard: HBK: taurusowner:And I seriously can't believe how dead inside some people are to whine and belittle people just for preferring pretty flowers grew in vacant lots instead of ugly weeds and spending the utterly minimal effort it takes to make it happen and pretty up their neighborhoods. Seriously, how shiatty of a childhood must some of you have had to be so joyless and dull as to be a douche about something like that?


I think you're getting favorited in green. I feel your pain about the weeds; I'm too lazy to seriously go to town on them more than a few times a summer, but I feel the pain all the same.

Also thanks for the link about the spinach; that's pretty cool. If I try it out though I think I'll keep it inside; I know NY has a LOT of restrictions on plant imports and that seems like something strong enough to be on the list of invasives (too lazy to check right now, either). Makes me sad though, I'd love to grow my own Goji berries for snacking (because they taste good to me, not because I bought into the hype). Can't get them shipped here by the big plant companies.
 
2012-04-22 01:29:57 AM  

whatshisname: buckler: BarkingUnicorn: In the middle of the article is the truth: these morons just toss their seeds and hope they grow all on their own. It doesn't work that way, as anyone who's actually gardened will tell you.

Yes, seeds in earth don't just magically grow. They need constant tending by gardeners and botanists to survive, as nature has taught us by its history over eons.

Anything that's not native won't be able to compete with the weeds



It's weird to think of, but many of the plants we think of as native weren't here 100 or 200 years ago. The mix of flowering plant species is more in flux than we are accustomed to thinking.

As I just mentioned a few moments ago, plants are simply little organic machines. You get the ones with the right specs and they'll do just fine. I've got flowers I planted a years ago in the flower bed in front of my house which are happily crowding out any of the "native" species which try to compete with them without any input from me whatsoever. Just sprinkled some seeds out there once the ground warmed up and let nature take its course. Every year they lay down new seeds, and then those seeds spring up the next year and out compete the native weeds just fine.
 
2012-04-22 01:35:31 AM  
For anyone interested these seed balls were probably first written about by Fukuoka in his book "The One Straw Revolution" in 1975.

One Straw Revolution Website

Here's a wikipedia link on how to make seed balls.
Seed Balls
 
2012-04-22 01:41:47 AM  

AeAe: I was thinking, say, if it's a volume approach. Say, seed bomb a bunch of vacant lots with short, auto flowering strains near the end of the season. Maybe toss the seed bombs closer to the fencing where they're not so conspicuous..


Tell ya what.

I'll plant them with your technique if you're willing to go sex them in July/Aug. Let me know when you're doing that job so I can be far far away. Also, mention my name, and we'll never do business again. Not for a pair of shoelaces or a stick of gum.

(hypothetically, of course)
 
2012-04-22 01:44:11 AM  

ladyfortuna: Also thanks for the link about the spinach; that's pretty cool. If I try it out though I think I'll keep it inside; I know NY has a LOT of restrictions on plant imports and that seems like something strong enough to be on the list of invasives (too lazy to check right now, either). Makes me sad though, I'd love to grow my own Goji berries for snacking (because they taste good to me, not because I bought into the hype). Can't get them shipped here by the big plant companies.



This is going to be my first year trying to grow that... actually my first year growing leafy greens at all. I've got two types of spinach, arugula and lettuce all planted right now, and just now starting to pick up.

The one thing about that red malbar spinach is that it is supposed to be very heat loving. When it's hot it's supposed to grow like gangbusters, but it's got to be hot outside. The ground should be about 80 degrees before it will grow, which I think must mean it's got to at least be pretty warm outside. If you're in NY I'd imagine it would only grow during the hottest part of the year, and the rest of the year it would be shiat out of luck.

To whit, I planted all my leafy greens about two or three weeks ago. The lettuce, arugula and "true" spinach are all doing fine. However every single one of my red malbar spinach plants immediately died. It was way too cool for them, and I planted around 14 of them, so it was definitely something conditionally wrong which killed them. I live outside of Washington DC so most of the summer they should be loving it here, but I'd imagine the window for it in NY would be smaller, so there's pretty much no chance of it becoming a pest problem. I don't think it overwinters at all either, it's originally from India, after all. In cool weather it is totally useless.

I'm kind of counting on that, since other leafy greens don't like warm weather... so when it gets really hot here and everything else is dying off or bolting like mad then that should be prime season for the red malbar to be really productive. But once it cools off again the red malbar is pretty much all going to die off right away, and that's when I can count on the spinach and arugula again.
 
HBK
2012-04-22 01:45:05 AM  

mongbiohazard: I've got close to 300 sq feet of garden, the whole shebang covered in plastic sheeting to help control weeds, retain moisture and help keep the soil warm. I cut these small holes - just a few inches across - for my veggies to come up through. Not only is keeping weeds out of those holes a never ending battle, but the farking weeds try to grow on TOP of the farking plastic too. I have a path made of pavers on top of the plastic so I can keep from tearing up the sheeting as I tend to the garden and the damn weeds will even grow between the pavers without soil. It's really amazing.

It's also relentless. I am constantly tearing weeds out, and new ones are constantly springing up. The guy you're responding too is right. Many weeds are just relentless and they're going to grow no matter what you do and it's not going to take very long at all. Days or weeks, not years or months. They're evolutionary survivors forged in the crucible of life - a never ending cycle of life eating life.


I'm no horticulturist, but I do live in an urban area with a lot of vacant lots. The ones with hard dirt and nothing growing on them are certainly an eyesore, but I prefer them to the lots with 4 foot tall weeds and grass that hide snakes, rodents, and broken bottles. My original post was contending that, on those lots without any current vegetation, the "mud bombing" with wild flowers may have the unintended consequence of creating work for the city. I assumed those were the lots the hippies were targeting. Otherwise, the city lawn mowers are just going to cut up the new plants on their by monthly mowings.

Additionally, I guess I am opposed to this "mudbombing" because the woman woman in the article seems downright intolerable. Hippies like her who say they want to be martyrs for a fairly dumb cause are nothing but attention whores.

The planter boxes, where the people actually tend to the plants are pretty cool, and I consider them to be a much more efficient and aesthetically pleasing use of the land than throwing clumps of weeds at vacant lots. There is still the issue of adverse possession though.
 
2012-04-22 01:47:03 AM  
Who's taking care of the lots after the seeds are thrown? High flowers = brush, which rodents hide in and make nests.

Planting foods will attract said rodents along with a plethora of other wildlife. This also farks with Nature, as animals start to rely on this food instead of foraging for it.

Are they planting native or invasive species? This could mess with the local ecosystem.

I know it's fun to think like a 5 year old and kumbaya and all that shiat, but sometimes they need to think things through.
 
2012-04-22 01:51:12 AM  

rebelyell2006: So she would want to have her fingerprints and DNA in a federal database, and have a police record that would deny voting rights, and an idiotic police record that would guarantee that nobody would hire someone who is a) a criminal and b) a person who throws mud balls and gets caught?


Um, you realize that there's different classifications for crimes, right? Does the word, "misdemeanor" mean anything to you?
 
2012-04-22 01:51:32 AM  

Bill_Wick's_Friend: AeAe: I was thinking, say, if it's a volume approach. Say, seed bomb a bunch of vacant lots with short, auto flowering strains near the end of the season. Maybe toss the seed bombs closer to the fencing where they're not so conspicuous..

Tell ya what.

I'll plant them with your technique if you're willing to go sex them in July/Aug. Let me know when you're doing that job so I can be far far away. Also, mention my name, and we'll never do business again. Not for a pair of shoelaces or a stick of gum.

(hypothetically, of course)



Personally, if I had any seeds of weed I'd be wanting to be planting random patches of them in lightly wooded, bushy or grassy areas - especially in the south. Lots of disparate random locations and preferably out away from urban or suburban areas so it has room to spread out and take hold. It's a hardy, extremely fast growing and pretty aggressive plant. I'd forgo any thoughts of possibly harvesting any of it for a few years just to try and give it the chance to establish itself as a new wild growing species.

Spread it far and wide enough and eradicating it won't be so easy any more. And if it's established as a part of the ecosystem then even if people try they won't get all of them and it'll be a never ending battle at that point. Eventually it won't be worth the effort anymore.
 
2012-04-22 01:53:36 AM  

TheShavingofOccam123: Gyrfalcon: whatshisname: buckler: BarkingUnicorn: In the middle of the article is the truth: these morons just toss their seeds and hope they grow all on their own. It doesn't work that way, as anyone who's actually gardened will tell you.

Yes, seeds in earth don't just magically grow. They need constant tending by gardeners and botanists to survive, as nature has taught us by its history over eons.

Anything that's not native won't be able to compete with the weeds

And as I noted above, anything just tossed on the surface mostly won't be able to survive the birds. Wild seeds survive by co-evolving with the birds and other animals they use for dispersal; and by mass-production. A handful of lettuce seeds tossed out in the open won't last a day.

I think a lot of it depends on climate and rainfall, too. But generally the seeds if they germinate won't be able to establish themselves in the hard soil directly underneath them.


That is the whole point of the seed bombs. The seeds are packed into a ball of mud, which is then dried, so that they are harder for animals to get to. They won't germinate till it rains, melting the ball, and then the seeds get started in the dirt that comes from the ball they were in, allowing the roots to get big enough to penetrate the soil beneath.
 
2012-04-22 01:58:35 AM  
The standards for what is guerrilla gardening seem very low these days.

We had a park not far from where I grew up, was on state managed, protected land. We also had some flowers and ferns on it that were endangered in the wild, and notorious for being difficult to spread by natural means but very easy to grow from cuttings and plugs (if someone gave you directions.)

They tried to decommission the park, and somehow by the next year the forest was just loaded with these things...instead of just being in one spot they were near every path and near every parking lot.
 
2012-04-22 02:09:30 AM  
rawsangha.com

2.bp.blogspot.com

www.fourwinds10.net
 
2012-04-22 02:19:09 AM  

I_Am_Weasel: I'm wondering what's asinine about this.

Attempting to grow things in areas that other otherwise eyesores and depressing?

I'm sure someone will explain it to me, though.

What's wrong with growing a little garden outside in the rust and sand, picking up the pieces that were left to die. Bringing the land back with a healing hand?


I was going to say the same.
 
2012-04-22 02:20:23 AM  

mongbiohazard: Spread it far and wide enough and eradicating it won't be so easy any more. And if it's established as a part of the ecosystem then even if people try they won't get all of them and it'll be a never ending battle at that point. Eventually it won't be worth the effort anymore.


There's already tons of feral weak cannabis growing in the midwest. The world doesn't need more.

All your plan would do is to screw the actual growers in your area by seeding their females with random male pollen.

Also I live in the temperate rainforest. without finding a proper site with water access, a break in the canopy for sunlight and without pre-conditioning the soil with neutral or slightly basic soils to counteract the pine needles the handfuls of seed just wouldn't grow.

(hypothetically, of course)
 
2012-04-22 02:24:35 AM  

HBK: I'm no horticulturist, but I do live in an urban area with a lot of vacant lots. The ones with hard dirt and nothing growing on them are certainly an eyesore, but I prefer them to the lots with 4 foot tall weeds and grass that hide snakes, rodents, and broken bottles. My original post was contending that, on those lots without any current vegetation, the "mud bombing" with wild flowers may have the unintended consequence of creating work for the city. I assumed those were the lots the hippies were targeting. Otherwise, the city lawn mowers are just going to cut up the new plants on their by monthly mowings.



The trick is to pick plants which don't get 4 foot tall. Like I said... plants are simply organic machines. You just have to pick the ones with the right specs, just like choosing any tool.

I've just planted Star of the Veld and aurinia saxatilis (aka - Gold Dust) for a large new planter I'm putting in front of my front stoop. The Star of the Veld gets a little over a foot tall at most, and the Gold Dust is 4" - 12" tall at the tallest. There are flowers even shorter than those. They won't be creating any more work for the city then there already would have been, and if they choose carefully they may even reduce how much the city has to bother with lots like that. A vegetative cover can not only increase the beauty of a space but can also reduce runoff, help improve soil quality and break down contamination and provide places for beneficial critters to live that can help control the numbers of nasty things like mosquitoes. And having some competition can also help keep those 4' tall weeds you're worried about more under control as well.

Typically the types of bigger critters (animals) which live in such close proximity to humans do just fine (and have evolved to) living in our far more sheltered and comfortable sewers, crawlspaces, roofs, in dens under our porches and homes, in our walls, under dumpsters, in piles of trash, etc. etc.... The rats here in DC aren't looking for crabgrass to hide in. They live in buildings. It's warmer inside buildings in the winter.


HBK: Additionally, I guess I am opposed to this "mudbombing" because the woman woman in the article seems downright intolerable. Hippies like her who say they want to be martyrs for a fairly dumb cause are nothing but attention whores.



That's more of a personal problem. I'm not usually so much a fan of "hippes" per se myself (though, good lord, they sure know their gardening), but part of growing up is realizing that if someone probably isn't really hurting anything, it's probably best to just STFU and let them do their thing and you go do your thing. It's part of living in a free country too. There's nothing more American than everybody just living their lives the way they want to and nobody getting to stop anybody else from doing shiat which is innocuous even if we don't agree with it personally.

It's planting pretty flowers - that's exactly the kind of thing where if you find yourself standing athwart it you really need to take a step back and do some self reflection. And if she wants attention? Meh. I'd rather have 100 million like that than just ONE more useless Kardashian or Paris Hilton shoved down our throats by marketers and media conglomerates. At least hippy girl is vying for attention while trying to do something to make the world a prettier place. Celebutards vie for our attention so they can enrich their bank account just by doing nothing more than being useless, talentless, vapid, non-contributing zeros. Keep it in perspective.


HBK: The planter boxes, where the people actually tend to the plants are pretty cool, and I consider them to be a much more efficient and aesthetically pleasing use of the land than throwing clumps of weeds at vacant lots. There is still the issue of adverse possession though.



I like them too, and I think it's a fantastic use of space which was otherwise going to waste in many cases. But they usually do involve a bit of legal wrangling. I see little to be concerned about with tossing some flower seeds over the fence of a vacant lot in the meantime though, if that kind of use hasn't been approved yet. I'm pretty sure these "seed bombers" would be more than happy to see those lots used for folks in the neighborhood to grow gardens in instead.

And nobody's claiming adverse possession from throwing seeds in a vacant lot, seriously. That's quite a stretch.
 
2012-04-22 02:31:41 AM  

Bill_Wick's_Friend: There's already tons of feral weak cannabis growing in the midwest. The world doesn't need more.


Neat! I'm out here on the mid Atlantic east coast, and I don't think we have any growing wild out here yet.

Bill_Wick's_Friend: All your plan would do is to screw the actual growers in your area by seeding their females with random male pollen.


Well, yes, that would be unfortunate. The stuff we get in my area generally comes from grow houses, so you don't really think much about folks actually growing it outside.

Bill_Wick's_Friend: Also I live in the temperate rainforest. without finding a proper site with water access, a break in the canopy for sunlight and without pre-conditioning the soil with neutral or slightly basic soils to counteract the pine needles the handfuls of seed just wouldn't grow.

(hypothetically, of course)


Yeah, different climate out here. It does grow pretty readily outside here. I've had more than one friend tossing seeds in their backyard and suddenly have a plant spring up without any help and have to pull it up before anyone notices.

I'd love to see it get established out here and across the southern US.
 
HBK
2012-04-22 02:36:15 AM  

mongbiohazard: And nobody's claiming adverse possession from throwing seeds in a vacant lot, seriously. That's quite a stretch.


Yeah, that would be a stretch. But it wouldn't be much of a stretch for the lots with the planter boxes.
 
2012-04-22 02:36:17 AM  

mongbiohazard: Neat! I'm out here on the mid Atlantic east coast, and I don't think we have any growing wild out here yet.


Every year Indiana destroys millions and millions of wild hemp plants that contain little or no intoxicating powers.

Your federal tax dollars at work.

mongbiohazard: The stuff we get in my area generally comes from grow houses, so you don't really think much about folks actually growing it outside.


I mostly buy my tomatoes at Safeway, but in Sept/Oct it sure is nice to have my own homegrown organic heirloom varieties that have been hand-tended and lovingly cared for since spring.

(metaphorically and hypothetically, of course)
 
2012-04-22 02:48:09 AM  

BurnShrike: Putting otherwise perfectly good but unused land to a good use is asinine?

Yeah, I mean it's not like we're running out of good land to use to house and feed the 7 billion of us.


The problem isn't the cultivation. The problem is overpopulation. Stop breeding like rabbits. Stop fighting for resources, because you're stressing the system by having 12 kids.
 
2012-04-22 02:58:50 AM  

I_Am_Weasel: I'm wondering what's asinine about this.


Probably the overblown rhetoric and terminology, as well as the over-stylized actions.

Just go plant some bloody seeds. Calling them bombs and throwing them is silliness at best, and could result in some jackass calling the cops on you at the worst.
 
2012-04-22 03:14:04 AM  

Dadoody: [2.bp.blogspot.com image 543x386]


"Monsanto! We've identified 3 things we don't like that the company has done in 40+ years, so therefore the company is evil."

fark you, hippie.
 
2012-04-22 03:25:13 AM  

RoyBatty: [www.ag.purdue.edu image 174x249]
[www.loumanna.com image 640x390]
[cdn1.1stwebdesigner.com image 574x361]
[www.americantruckwash.com image 640x438]
[3.thekrazycouponlady.com image 412x253]


That's one of the most offensive things I've seen in a while.

Here's a fun game: count all of the advertising you see in a day. All of the billboards, signs, commercials, etc. The amount is mind blowing. Oh, and let's not forget we're all walking advertisements. What with shirt and shoe logos. Cavaricci/Girbaud/Guess pants anyone?
 
2012-04-22 03:26:24 AM  

Bill_Wick's_Friend: mongbiohazard: Neat! I'm out here on the mid Atlantic east coast, and I don't think we have any growing wild out here yet.

Every year Indiana destroys millions and millions of wild hemp plants that contain little or no intoxicating powers.

Your federal tax dollars at work.mongbiohazard: The stuff we get in my area generally comes from grow houses, so you don't really think much about folks actually growing it outside.

I mostly buy my tomatoes at Safeway, but in Sept/Oct it sure is nice to have my own homegrown organic heirloom varieties that have been hand-tended and lovingly cared for since spring.

(metaphorically and hypothetically, of course)



Yeah, here in the DC suburbs outside growing just isn't going to happen. People do try occasionally around Lake Frank or in Rock Creek Park, but with so many people around the plants aren't more than 3' tall before they get discovered. As far as growing it inside.... I am - as you can obviously tell from my posts in this thread - an avid vegetable gardener. I grow all my plants from seed under two 150 watt high pressure sodium lights. Theoretically I could grow my own....... but my wife won't let me. She's adamant about few things, but that's one of them. No way, no how. She put her foot down on that one before I could even finish the theoretical suggestion.

It's probably for the best, as it keeps me out of trouble that way. And it's not all that hard to find when you want to buy it. Freakin' everybody smokes once in a while...

It was ironic though that when the city inspector came a few years ago when some work was being done in my house that he saw my tomato growing table and looked like he was about to shiat himself for a second until it was explained to him that yes, those were really tomatoes which he could see once he took a closer look.
 
2012-04-22 04:05:33 AM  

Oznog: Who the hell would eat from there??

Inner cities are known for soil contamination with lead, PCBs, dioxins, pesticides, there's really no telling. Lead is the classic one, lots of these places had lead paint from "the old days", leaching into the ground, sometimes getting stripped off onto the ground during repainting. When the place gets derelict and torn down, there may be no owner responsible for cleanup, thus the derelict status. Place could be a mini superfund site by then.


FYI, plants are quite adept at isolating and partitioning heavy metals thier roots encounter in urban soils - from cell membrains to xylem conduits, plants are picky. My lab mate had studied this in depth and found, for example, no detectable lead in tomatoes grown in lead-contaminated soil ( among other nasty things ). I would still avoid roots and tubers ( like carrots and potatoes ) from questionable soils as thier direct contact with contaminants make them more suspect. Otherwise, garden the heck out of that vacant lot!
 
2012-04-22 04:29:03 AM  

HBK: taurusowner:
Weeds grow and need to be mowed, with or without help. There's this thing called "nature" and it's found a lot of good ways to distribute seeds without human help. Dandelion seeds blowing in the wind, squirrels burring acorns and seeds, etc. Take any patch of dirt, and shiats gonna start growing there with or without "activist gardening". If it's not flowers and veggies, it's gonna be crab grass and dandelions.

Sure, over time. The process generally takes a lot longer if you aren't actively throwing weeds at it.


The shiatting of a thread generally takes longer if people aren't tossing trolls at it, too - but I notice that didn't stop you.
 
2012-04-22 04:31:58 AM  

ArcadianRefugee: Dadoody: [2.bp.blogspot.com image 543x386]

"Monsanto! We've identified 3 things we don't like that the company has done in 40+ years, so therefore the company is evil."

fark you, hippie.


Are you actually serious? Aside from the things mentioned in that image, they're destroying the American family farmer. Patenting genetically engineered plants (which grow and spread pollen on their own) and then bringing farmers to court when their crops show genetic traces of monsanto's patented plants, through no action on the farmers' part? Their actions border on treasonous and are criminal at best.

fark you for defending shiatbags like that
 
2012-04-22 04:43:06 AM  
Trollmitter
 
HBK
2012-04-22 04:52:08 AM  

jso2897:

The shiatting of a thread generally takes longer if people aren't tossing trolls at it, too - but I notice that didn't stop you.


Ah yes, the belief that anyone who doesn't agree with you or who thinks things you like are stupid is obviously a troll. A true cornerstone to enlightenment and open-mindedness.
 
2012-04-22 05:03:09 AM  

HBK: jso2897:

The shiatting of a thread generally takes longer if people aren't tossing trolls at it, too - but I notice that didn't stop you.

Ah yes, the belief that anyone who doesn't agree with you or who thinks things you like are stupid is obviously a troll. A true cornerstone to enlightenment and open-mindedness.


Well I won't personally lay any claims to enlightenment or an overly ventilated cranium but I do have to say that getting pissy about people tossing wildflower seeds into ugly vacant lots makes me wonder if you don't maybe have better things to spend time worrying about.

Then again, here I am replying, so obviously I don't have anything better to do at the moment either. .
 
2012-04-22 05:09:32 AM  

Prosthetic Anus: Patenting genetically engineered plants (which grow and spread pollen on their own) and then bringing farmers to court when their crops show genetic traces of monsanto's patented plants, through no action on the farmers' part?


Although it's a dick-move, the bigger problem seems to be with the patent laws and court system rather than Monsanto specifically. Such actions should not be possible at all -- whether the company is evil or not.

I can't blame Monsanto for patenting their GM crops -- a lot of work goes into making them -- but simply being a farmer located down-wind should never be actionable in the first place.
 
2012-04-22 05:17:58 AM  

jshine: Prosthetic Anus: Patenting genetically engineered plants (which grow and spread pollen on their own) and then bringing farmers to court when their crops show genetic traces of monsanto's patented plants, through no action on the farmers' part?

Although it's a dick-move, the bigger problem seems to be with the patent laws and court system rather than Monsanto specifically. Such actions should not be possible at all -- whether the company is evil or not.

I can't blame Monsanto for patenting their GM crops -- a lot of work goes into making them -- but simply being a farmer located down-wind should never be actionable in the first place.


I absolutely concur with that last statement and you do bring up a good point that a system that allows this is tragically flawed. This seems like a case where obvious advantage of that situation is being taken and you're correct that the fault lies in the system that allows this. It doesn't change for me that in any reasonable world, people who destroy lives like this should be up against the wall. That the farmers don't have the money to defend themselves against this shouldn't matter (fault with the system, granted). I'm not a violent person but this is one specific instance where I wouldn't lose any sleep if a ruined farmer took matters into their own hands.

If there were farmers with the means to actually take this on the offensive in court, I firmly believe it wouldn't hold up at all. It's been tried but not with enough funds to back it up.

tl;dr yeah, you're right but this is one thing that gets me incredibly angry
 
2012-04-22 06:15:06 AM  
Does anybody know how to kill wild strawberries? They're overtaking my lawn, and the broad-leaf weed killer I used doesn't seem to work.
 
2012-04-22 06:18:01 AM  

PacManDreaming: Asinine? Sounds like a good way to make use of a vacant lot.


Which makes it "liberal" which makes it bad.

Stupid libs, trying to make the world a better, prettier place.
 
2012-04-22 06:36:33 AM  

HBK: jso2897:

The shiatting of a thread generally takes longer if people aren't tossing trolls at it, too - but I notice that didn't stop you.

Ah yes, the belief that anyone who doesn't agree with you or who thinks things you like are stupid is obviously a troll. A true cornerstone to enlightenment and open-mindedness.


I was just making an observation, pal. You don't need to take it as criticism.
Damn, some of you people take yourselves seriously.
 
2012-04-22 06:41:49 AM  

GilRuiz1: taurusowner: what exactly is asinine about this?


It's funny that they imagine they are changing the world... FOR GREAT JUSTICE.

The idealistically lopsided grasp of their own impact reminds me of the Kogi, a little tribe that lives in the rainforest highlands of Colombia. The Kogi call themselves the "Elder Brothers," considering the rest of humanity to be the younger, less enlightened "Younger Brothers" that need to be cared for and guided for their own good. This guardianship consists of climbing a sacred mountain and worshipping the "Earth Mother." By doing this, they imagine they are accomplishing the big important work of humanity, allowing us younger brothers to go about our petty, small, insignificant business. They imagine themselves to be the heroes of the world, safeguarding humanity, protecting us so the rest of us can lead better lives.

No, it doesn't harm anyone and it's perfectly fine for them to do their thing on their sacred mountain. But their perception of their tiny little efforts as phenomenal feats of staggering importance ... you just gotta laugh.


But of course, when otherwise sane people go into a useless building and sit in uncomfortable seats, and listen to the most boring speeches in the world, and then get down on their knees and start talking to the air - that's to be respected, amirite?
 
2012-04-22 06:55:11 AM  
As long as they have some common sense and do some research about what they are doing. Some herbal plants, and many "pretty" flowering plants are noxious invasive species that will displace native grasses and other plant life.

But It does sound more creative and useful than trashing public parks or pooping in banks.
 
2012-04-22 07:06:25 AM  

BurnShrike: Putting otherwise perfectly good but unused land to a good use is asinine?

Yeah, I mean it's not like we're running out of good land to use to house and feed the 7 billion of us.


We're not... not really.

/well, not if we were farking smart.
 
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