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(CBS News)   Jail, it's not just for potheads. Debtor prisons, you owe, you owe, it's off to jail you go   (cbsnews.com) divider line 198
    More: Scary, Lisa Madigan, debtors, Illinois Attorney General, health care services, teaching assistant, CBS MoneyWatch, Illinois House of Representatives, contempt of court  
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23528 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Apr 2012 at 1:34 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-21 05:11:02 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Steal $500 worth of car stereo = go to jail
Steal $50,000 from credit card agencies = debt collectors are evil!


thisiswhyyourestupid.jpg
 
2012-04-21 05:18:27 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: relcec: dudemanbro: MaudlinMutantMollusk: When prisons became an industry, how could this not be far behind?

Yep, and once you're there you get to work for 30 cents an hour for some corporation. This country is well and truly farked.


uh, if the evil corporations actually pay you anything then sign me up for that over the liberal treatment you get in California.
in the peoples republic of California the local government charges you about $150 a day for keeping you in jail. it's almost like they want you return to a life of crime to pay off your debts you incurred when they charged you for keeping you in jail so they can catch you again and throw you back in jail and start charging you $150 a day for being there again.
in California your debt to society isn't paid off once you are released from jail after serving your sentence, it's actually larger than ever at that moment.
but yeah, only corporations or evil. your brand of big liberal government isn't at all.

I can only find evidence of a single county, Riverside, that proposed such a charge. Do you have a link to anything about the charge being statewide?

/and I called it an industry, not a corporation. There's a difference


it's the counties who charge it.
Sacramento county - $77 per day. Link
Riverside County - $142 per day
Trinity County - $20 per day
Glenn County- $59 per day
Placer County - $118 per day
Madera County - $73 per day
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/nov/20/local/la-me-inmate-fees-2011 11 20
there must be others, and I'd be surprised if any county in California didn't charge prisoners a fat daily fee for home confinement.
 
2012-04-21 05:21:02 PM
AssAsInAssassin
"A consumer that has been arrested or jailed can't pay a debt."

The point of debtors prison was to compel someone else to pay the ransom.
 
2012-04-21 05:22:13 PM

ThighsofGlory: AssAsInAssassin: "A consumer that has been arrested or jailed can't pay a debt."

This. In Montana, and elsewhere, I'm sure, people who fall behind on their child support can get their driver's licenses taken away and lose other licenses and certification that would allow them to make good on the debt. I have two friends who had their ability to pay child support taken away, because, hey! Justice!

So they had the ability to pay child support before, and they chose not to? Nice friends, Otto.


If that was the case in most instances it would be one thing.
Unfortunately, more and more people lose their job, fall behind because their support amount was based on the job they used to have, and the licenses are revoked automatically, no hearing or anything.
Good luck finding a job in anywhere other than a major city if you can't drive.

You might get it back eventually, if you can get the amount due each month changed to something affordable, but that process can take a year if the ex wants to drag it out. I know quite a few people who don't mind paying child support, and always kept up with it until they found themselves laid off. If you're in a 'tough on deadbeat dads' state, you're pretty much screwed even if you make partial payments every month.
 
2012-04-21 05:24:01 PM
Banks magically create the money they loan. If you default, you are not depriving anyone of anything save the effortless profit of your interest payments.

Fiat. Its more than a crappy car company.
 
2012-04-21 05:30:15 PM

wambu: In Virginia, we have rent-to-own contracts. The important part is that you don;t own the stuff and if you miss a payment, they show up at your house with the cops to arrest you for theft.

Plus the effective APR if you were purchasing it on credit is something like 400+%.

/so don't do that


There is usually a step or two in between you not paying and the cops getting involved. Like..they come repo your shiat.
 
2012-04-21 05:30:40 PM

gilgigamesh: What they describe as "debtors prison" is, in reality, yet another penalty for being an idiot.

Life is full of them. Film at 11.


Sadly, you're an idiot.

I doubt most employers would take kindly to the average schmoe having to take off work to fight some sleazeball lawyer.
 
2012-04-21 05:31:40 PM
The US used to be widely looked at by the world as the land of opportunity and a moral leader for other nations.

Clearly we were mistaken in that belief.
 
2012-04-21 05:31:48 PM

Corporate Self: Sadly, you're an idiot.


It is a sad commentary on the state of affairs in our country that I get excited when someone uses the proper "you're".
 
2012-04-21 05:32:17 PM
Trance750
Well when you let the bills pile up, while you blow your paycheck on fun and games....

Know how I know you're privileged?
 
2012-04-21 05:39:22 PM

grinding_journalist: montex: You know how you can tell a story is BS?

Dunno, but you may want to reevaulate your criteria.

The practice I manage gets checks for $0.00 on a weekly basis, and we've gotten "overpayment" bills for $0.00 as a result of actually trying to deposit one of those checks, amongst other things.

But like Buzzcut73 mentioned, I'm sure every system everywhere is perfect, and couldn't ever allow something like that to happen. All of us are making up these stories. In fact, we're all alts of the same person, posting after our own posts to give the appearance of consensus.




I knew it!!!!
 
2012-04-21 05:41:39 PM
blog.timesunion.com
 
2012-04-21 05:48:22 PM

adamgreeney: jaylectricity: An order to appear in court will come directly from the court, right? Not from some lawyer's office?

Yes. you will get served with papers, not sent a letter in the mail


Whew! For a second there I thought I was actually going to have to open this pile of threatening letters.
 
2012-04-21 05:50:48 PM
bsalert.com

Cindy Jacobs, a self-proclaimed "prophet" fond of appearing on cable tv religion channels, has declared October 29th "Day of Prayer for the World's Economies" and is asking Christians all over the world to stop what they're doing and ask God to improve their IRA balance.

"We are going to intercede at the site of the statue of the bull on Wall Street to ask God to begin a shift from the bull and bear markets to what we feel will be the 'Lion's Market,' or God's control over the economic systems,"



Peter Schiff video, 2006 - 2007
 
2012-04-21 05:56:52 PM

gaslight: The US seems working very hard to take itself back to the 18th Century.


The Tea Party would love to use this to make people more boot-strappy.

They gone after the poor, the women, any government run programs that assist the public such as education, USDA, EPA, Highway/roads and, etc. calling it government interference.
 
2012-04-21 05:59:41 PM

gilgigamesh: What they describe as "debtors prison" is, in reality, yet another penalty for being an idiot.

Life is full of them. Film at 11.


You sound like an asshole. Oh wait, you are. Life is indeed full of those too.
 
2012-04-21 06:06:17 PM

adamgreeney: jaylectricity: An order to appear in court will come directly from the court, right? Not from some lawyer's office?

Yes. you will get served with papers, not sent a letter in the mail


Not anymore. Modern courts are doing away with service of process for alleged debtors because "they know or should know they can be hailed into court at any time, and have a duty to avail themselves of online docket searches."
 
2012-04-21 06:07:56 PM

bugontherug: Not anymore. Modern courts are doing away with service of process for alleged debtors because "they know or should know they can be hailed into court at any time, and have a duty to avail themselves of online docket searches."


Citation, please.
 
2012-04-21 06:08:31 PM
Unemployment situation is solved. Some people go to prison and some people run those prisons. Win win.
 
2012-04-21 06:08:48 PM

ItchyBrother: Freschel: At least they don't kidnap your children and send them to labor camps, yet.

Gawd, that would be too good.

I'd miss more than a few payments here and there if that would happen! Heck, I'd even go out and borrow some money in order NOT to repay it, if such were the case!

//ItchyBrother tires of those pleads of "I'm hungry", "I need shoes and clothes", and the worst of all, "I think I need a Doctor, Dad"


You owe me a new keyboard. =P
 
2012-04-21 06:20:01 PM
At first they came for the so called "deadbeat dads" and I was like,, "I'm not a so called "deadbeat dad" ,, so I didn't say anything,,,,,,
 
2012-04-21 06:22:18 PM
Clearly we don't have enough people in prison.

itsnotjustme.com
 
2012-04-21 06:27:06 PM

Makh: Unemployment situation is solved. Some people go to prison and some people run those prisons. Win win.


It sounds so practical when you say it like that.
 
2012-04-21 06:37:54 PM

fusillade762: Clearly we don't have enough people in prison.

[itsnotjustme.com image 510x277]


I agree with where your going, but It should be noted that countries like Afghanistan and Syria most likely just bury or cremate their lawbreakers.
 
2012-04-21 06:40:03 PM

fusillade762: Clearly we don't have enough people in prison.


If only we could be more life Afghanistan.

(I do think we have way too many people in prison, btw)
 
2012-04-21 06:42:31 PM

sonorangal: gaslight: The US seems working very hard to take itself back to the 18th Century.

The Tea Party would love to use this to make people more boot-strappy.

They gone after the poor, the women, any government run programs that assist the public such as education, USDA, EPA, Highway/roads and, etc. calling it government interference.


This is what voters actually people
 
2012-04-21 06:44:06 PM
Look out for zombie debt, too.
Most, of not all, states have statutes of limitations on debt contracts like credit cards. IF you get summoned to appear on such a debt, just show up at court and tell the judge that the debt is time-barred. Story ends there.

Zombie debts are resold for years after the credit card companies write them off and sell them to private collection firms for pennies on the dollar. Never acknowledge a zombie debt is yours to any collector and never make payments, since that resets the statute clock.
 
2012-04-21 06:47:42 PM
I was in a loop with collections and the Phone Co. I cancelled landline service and paid the last bill. The phone co. sent me a refund check. Then would get a notice from a collection agency about the phone bill. Would pay the agency and then get another refund check from the phone co. This went on for years.
 
2012-04-21 06:52:13 PM

adamgreeney: jaylectricity: An order to appear in court will come directly from the court, right? Not from some lawyer's office?

Yes. you will get served with papers, not sent a letter in the mail


Not always. I got a letter in the mail last month, ordinary first class, notifying me that an arrest warrant had been issued for failure to appear.

I called the clerk of the court to ask WTF and apparently they had sent a letter, also regular 1st class in February notifying me of the case. I had not received it. Had I not received the second letter, and gotten pulled over, I would have been jailed.

I went down and posted bail and had the case reset for May 23. Apparently, our sprinkler system was running on the wrong day while we were on vacation in Scotland at Xmas. I wasn't aware it was turned on.

/ City of Austin Municipal Court
// check your mail regularly
 
2012-04-21 06:53:00 PM
According to a hearing transcript, a central Illinois judge listened to Hinton's story, noted he'd recently been paid after finishing a roofing job, and said: "Mr. Hinton,you had $1,000 in your pocket, you chose to spend it elsewhere in violation of the court order. That lands you in jail."

img1.fark.net
 
2012-04-21 06:54:18 PM

Makh: Unemployment situation is solved. Some people go to prison and some people run those prisons. Win win.

Well if its not the Tea Party then it could be the lobbyists for private prisons who will push for it since they seem to be pushing for almost every crime to serve jail time.
 
2012-04-21 06:54:26 PM

ununcle: I agree with where your going, but It should be noted that countries like Afghanistan and Syria most likely just bury or cremate their lawbreakers.


I would love to see a chart comparing all of that...I wonder if the rates of corporal punishment/disfigurement/summary execution per 100,000 people would come close to balancing out that incarceration figure?
 
2012-04-21 06:57:20 PM

ParaHandy: I went down and posted bail and had the case reset for May 23. Apparently, our sprinkler system was running on the wrong day while we were on vacation in Scotland at Xmas. I wasn't aware it was turned on.


Lawn sprinklers are serious business, son.
Deadly serious.
 
2012-04-21 07:01:19 PM

Descartes: According to a hearing transcript, a central Illinois judge listened to Hinton's story, noted he'd recently been paid after finishing a roofing job, and said: "Mr. Hinton,you had $1,000 in your pocket, you chose to spend it elsewhere in violation of the court order. That lands you in jail."

[img1.fark.net image 54x11]


The bottom line is you have to approve of debtor prisons to applaud this. He could've wanted to buy crack with the money in his pocket that day, but, he may have been behind 2 months in his rent. This judge basically said fark you to the constitution which is far to common these days.
 
2012-04-21 07:02:38 PM
At least you get medical care in jail. Unless America's planning on changing that.
 
2012-04-21 07:07:42 PM

NIXON YOU DOLT!!!!!: I would love to see a chart comparing all of that...I wonder if the rates of corporal punishment/disfigurement/summary execution per 100,000 people would come close to balancing out that incarceration figure?


It would be tough because nations like Syria and Afganistan are so much smaller.
 
2012-04-21 07:10:43 PM

ununcle: This judge basically said fark you to the constitution


wtfamireading.jpg
 
2012-04-21 07:10:57 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: fusillade762: Clearly we don't have enough people in prison.

If only we could be more life Afghanistan.


Or we could be like some of the more pleasant countries: England, Canada, France, Japan, etc.

Are Americans really that much more crimey than people in those countries? Or are we, as a nation, pants shiattingly terrified of crime?
 
2012-04-21 07:17:46 PM
So, from the article they say that in Florida, it's legal to add 40% onto a debt if it's purchased by a debt collector as a "fee". And 30% in Alabama

I had no idea Mafia loansharks had government protection in Florida. The mere fact that it's not criminalized behaviour to purchase then inflate loans just terrifies me.
 
2012-04-21 07:18:53 PM
I think people would be more sympathetic if they, and this is entirely anecdotal, saw more people with debt paying their debt when they could as opposed to just ignoring it. I've seen a few - not many, I guess I associate with a different class of people, that just toss bills in the trash when they get them. The bill tossers seem to be the majority. I know a few others who struggle and yet they pay their bills. They are fewer in number than those who chuck them and end up getting electricity in their kid's name, etc... I don't really have a nickle invested so, well, I guess that's my only point. Sympathy goes a long ways though.
 
2012-04-21 07:21:55 PM
LIke, serously.

Why not create 2 corporations in Florida, seperate entities under law (Corprations are people too ya know), have each purchase debt, add 40%, then sell them if payment is not immediately started to the other seperate entity, add the next 40%, and repeat until that 250 dollar loan is now a good 40k that they can be jailed and have assets seized over.

I mean, they shouldn't have borrowed money to buy a car. Sure, it seems predatory, but we're just a debt collection agency trying to get as good a deal as we can and make our money in these tough times. We're not bad guys. It's not easy to collect money we didn't loan out to anyone.
 
2012-04-21 07:34:14 PM

ununcle: The bottom line is you have to approve of debtor prisons to applaud this. He could've wanted to buy crack with the money in his pocket that day, but, he may have been behind 2 months in his rent. This judge basically said fark you to the constitution which is far to common these days.


The real bottom line is that judges frown upon having their orders ignored and/or disobeyed.
 
2012-04-21 07:37:32 PM

ununcle: Descartes: According to a hearing transcript, a central Illinois judge listened to Hinton's story, noted he'd recently been paid after finishing a roofing job, and said: "Mr. Hinton,you had $1,000 in your pocket, you chose to spend it elsewhere in violation of the court order. That lands you in jail."

[img1.fark.net image 54x11]

The bottom line is you have to approve of debtor prisons to applaud this. He could've wanted to buy crack with the money in his pocket that day, but, he may have been behind 2 months in his rent. This judge basically said fark you to the constitution which is far to common these days.


Yeah. How dare someone spend on bread and beans instead of whichever creditor is in front of the court.

If you don't want to risk not being repaid as a result of poverty, don't loan people money. Especially don't loan poor people money. Especially don't make a life habit of loaning poor people money.

If you do loan poor people money, you sue them and take their assets, seize their bank accounts, garnish their wages---but you can't (shouldn't be able to) throw them in debtor's prison. And the solution to not liking that, if you're a creditor, is to just not loan them the money in the first place.

It's not like the creditors don't know full well who these people are before they loan them the money. That's their excuse for charging them huge rates of interest and gigantic fees and penalties---to cover the risks of defaults and cover all those bad loans they have to write off.

Well, fine.

Frankly, I'm not mad at the stupid people for being stupid. They can't help it.

I'm mad at the credit card companies for suckering the stupid into debt and enticing them to spend beyond their means----credit card companies peddle debt to stupid people the way drug dealers peddle crack to the young and vulnerable (okay, stupid people). First taste is free.

The credit card companies aren't stupid. Just greedy, amoral sharks. Same with the debt collectors.

It's pointless to get mad at the dumb for being dumb---unless you just enjoy being mad.

It's worthwhile to get pissed off at greedy and amoral sharks for taking advantage of the dumb. The sharks will always think up one more swindle to separate the dumb from their money, but working to try to outlaw and stay ahead of the swindles has helped somewhat.
 
2012-04-21 07:37:37 PM
That we have even a single prison motivated by *any* amount of profit is a travesty. No one should EVER have a profit incentive to ruin someone's life to that extent.
 
2012-04-21 07:42:15 PM

Descartes: The real bottom line is that judges frown upon having their orders ignored and/or disobeyed.


I understand, but it should be within reason. Should a judge be able to court order a person with no legs to jog around the block? There's a difference between someone violating a court ordered restraining order, and someone court ordered to pay money they simply have no means of paying.
 
2012-04-21 07:47:24 PM
Right...and you always get served in person ...right? Bshiat...........Processor's are just as scummy as their lawyer clients.
 
2012-04-21 07:52:08 PM
Jailed for not paying a health care bills? Not cool.

Jailed for not paying for your 120" LCD home theater and $200/mo cell phone bill? About goddamn time.

/ yeah, I said it.
// fark the farking farkers.
 
2012-04-21 07:54:00 PM
So, let me get this straight. Let's say someone says that I owe money (and I don't) and they make me appear in court, or better yet I go to jail (because I wouldn't show up if I don't owe the money). They are going to have one massive lawsuit to settle with me.
Why should I waste my time because they farked up? My time is worth something to me.
 
2012-04-21 08:00:54 PM

fusillade762: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: fusillade762: Clearly we don't have enough people in prison.

If only we could be more life Afghanistan.

Or we could be like some of the more pleasant countries: England, Canada, France, Japan, etc.

Are Americans really that much more crimey than people in those countries? Or are we, as a nation, pants shiattingly terrified of crime?


I think it's a bit of both. Our violent crime rates are higher (thanks black people) but so are our drug incarceration rates. Ideally we'd decriminalize drug sales/use while and use the "war on drug" funding to rehabilitate violent offenders. Those two simple legislative actions would make a huge impact on our prison population and our quality of life, but politicians seem to be tops short-sighted to commit to either.
 
2012-04-21 08:02:21 PM
*too short sighted
 
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