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(New York Daily News)   In a world where America fights to remain in front: Talking pineapple question on state exam stumps Students, Teachers and Principals   (nydailynews.com) divider line 338
    More: Obvious, professor emeritus  
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21793 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Apr 2012 at 1:36 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-20 04:55:41 PM

algrant33: You know, when you get SO many presumably-intelligent people who use different methods to arrive at DIFFERENT answers which are all OBVIOUSLY correct to the person who answered that way, it's almost as though the question has many different valid interpretations which yield different results. Such a question HAS no correct answer and it has no business being on an 8th-grade reading test.

Or is this the 8th-grade reading test's version of a FARK Politics tab discussion?


t3.gstatic.com
 
2012-04-20 04:55:57 PM

fisker: I don't know how the test publishing company changed the story. I gather they decided to call the rabbit a hare, and made the eggplant into a pineapple. Also there appears to be something about sleeves. And they made up questions for the students to answer. I would not have done any of these things. But it has nothing to do with me. I cashed the check they sent me after about 8 months, and took my wife out to lunch at a cheap restaurant. I believe, she ordered eggplant.

/pops


Wow, when the CollegeBoard does this kind of shiat on the SAT and the GRE, they edit the passage for length but NEVER for content, and they always attribute at the end of the passage.

Also, it would seem that eighth-graders are WRITING the questions, too.
 
2012-04-20 04:57:22 PM

StoPPeRmobile: algrant33: You know, when you get SO many presumably-intelligent people who use different methods to arrive at DIFFERENT answers which are all OBVIOUSLY correct to the person who answered that way, it's almost as though the question has many different valid interpretations which yield different results. Such a question HAS no correct answer and it has no business being on an 8th-grade reading test.

Or is this the 8th-grade reading test's version of a FARK Politics tab discussion?

[t3.gstatic.com image 172x229]


Okay, is that Plato and his cave, or is that the guy who did the blind man and the elephant?
 
2012-04-20 05:00:55 PM

brantgoose: The Third Man: Fano: 2. How is a raven like a writing desk?

It is nevar placed back to front.

In addition to this odd answer, Lewis Carroll came up with another answer to his own unanswered riddle which makes a fair amount of sense, although it's not a great joke:

Because a few drops of ink spilled on them isn't noticeable, the reason being the raven is totally black, while the writing desk (or its blotter) is so splattered with ink that a few more makes no visible difference.



Neither should be opened without cause.

(Better when spoken.)


"Enquiries have been so often addressed to me, as to whether any answer to the Hatter's Riddle can be imagined, that I may as well put on record here what seems to me to be a fairly appropriate answer, viz: 'Because it can produce a few notes, tho they are very flat; and it is never put with the wrong end in front!' This, however, is merely an afterthought; the Riddle, as originally invented, had no answer at all." -Lewis Carroll
 
2012-04-20 05:01:08 PM

fisker: I don't know how the test publishing company changed the story. I gather they decided to call the rabbit a hare, and made the eggplant into a pineapple. Also there appears to be something about sleeves. And they made up questions for the students to answer. I would not have done any of these things. But it has nothing to do with me. I cashed the check they sent me after about 8 months, and took my wife out to lunch at a cheap restaurant. I believe, she ordered eggplant.

/pops


That is awesome.
 
2012-04-20 05:05:04 PM
"In the olden times, animals could speak English, just like you and me."

LOL, Que?
 
2012-04-20 05:05:44 PM
Seems simple enough.

1. Why did the animals eat the pineapple?
a. they were annoyed


2. Who was the wisest?
a. the hare


3. ?
a.
 
2012-04-20 05:14:26 PM

koder: There isn't a right answer, obviously; they're open-ended questions that leave the test-taker to answer any way they want--as long as it's grammatically/stylistically correct.

On a related note, the reactions to the question demonstrate something far, far scarier: a profound lack of creativity, imagination, and adaptability to novel situations among those aforementioned students, teachers, and principals. That, alone, is far more spiritually deadly to a populace than skill in grammar. If they can't deal with that, then yes, they deserve to fail the test; the age of the mindless-office-worker drone and the assembly-line worker is rapidly coming to an end, and if we don't adapt to an economy of creativity, imagination, and innovation, we're screwed.

As such, I think it's the schools themselves--not the test--that need to adapt.


Yah, except multiple choice, not essay.

My snowflake took this test. Her answer? "Don't do drugs, Test-writing Dudes."

FOUR!
 
2012-04-20 05:17:50 PM
TFA: "I challenge you to a race! Whoever makes it across the forest and back first wins a ninja! And a lifetime's supply of toothpaste"

Get out of my head, Pearson test-making people!
 
2012-04-20 05:21:45 PM

RembrandtQEinstein: Did someone say talking pineapple?

(obscure?)


If that's from ''L'anananas'', the PBS french-language series, then I'm leaving happy. If not, then ol'Sid&Marty are really scraping barrel.
 
2012-04-20 05:23:12 PM
Pineapple cat is not amused.
29.media.tumblr.com
 
2012-04-20 05:27:12 PM
pull.imgfave.netdna-cdn.com
 
2012-04-20 05:37:18 PM

My Third Testicle: AverageAmericanGuy: Walker: 1. Why did the animals eat the pineapple?
a. they were annoyed
b. they were amused
c. they were hungry
d. they wanted to

HOW CAN I READ ANIMAL'S MINDS??? QUESTION IS INVALID!

d. they wanted to.

They did not have a reason to eat the pineapple. Therefore, if they ate the pineapple without a reason, it is because they wanted to.

2. Who was the wisest?
a. the hare
b. moose
c. crow
d. owl

Duh. C. Crow.

1: C
Ascribing "wants" to animals is anthropomorphizing. They ate because they were hungry.
2: C
The crow was wrong, but logical.

or, maybe something else


LOLwut? Ascribing wants to animals is anthropomorphizing, and therefore incorrect, in a story in which the animals have conversations, set up, and run races?
 
2012-04-20 05:48:46 PM
And he had a quick answer to the question of who is the wisest: "Pearson for getting paid $32 million for recycling this crap."

airlineworld.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-04-20 05:50:59 PM

HailRobonia: Who was the wisest? The moose. The moose is a strength-domain cleric and needs a high wisdom score in order to smite evil enemies and bite my sister.


that took FAR too long.
 
2012-04-20 05:57:51 PM
It is not suppose to have an answer, they just want to see the kids logic in concluding one and the ability to problem solve under pressure. Kinda like being asked in a job interview "How many planes fly out of Hartsfield Jackson airport daily" or "How many tee shots happen daily at a public golf course". You are suppose to logically think out an answer and defend it while being able to show problem solving skills. Granted, it is a little much to ask of 8th graders, but you could judge some creativity without having a "right" answer.
 
2012-04-20 06:06:55 PM

RobSeace: Fish in a Barrel: I thought the story was a little Voight-Kampff-esque, too.

Holden: I mean: you're not helping! You're just sitting there, not racing! Why is that, Leon?


Uhhh, because..... I'm a pineapple?
 
2012-04-20 06:07:31 PM
The ate the pineapple because it proved that it was really just a pineapple and nothing else, even though they thought it had some magic power. Turns out it was just a pineapple-it is just food. The talking part is does not matter. The only smart one is the Hare, because he knew it was just a pineapple and could not beat him. He was right.
 
2012-04-20 06:10:50 PM

StaleCoffee: fisker: I don't know how the test publishing company changed the story. I gather they decided to call the rabbit a hare, and made the eggplant into a pineapple. Also there appears to be something about sleeves. And they made up questions for the students to answer. I would not have done any of these things. But it has nothing to do with me. I cashed the check they sent me after about 8 months, and took my wife out to lunch at a cheap restaurant. I believe, she ordered eggplant.

/pops

That is awesome.


www.tigriffith.com

"You're a cantaloupe."
 
2012-04-20 06:13:03 PM

wambu: Seems simple enough.

1. Why did the animals eat the pineapple?
a. they were annoyed


2. Who was the wisest?
a. the hare


3. ?
a.


The wisest was the pineapple because it had spent the last six weeks upping its odds on the internet and then laying down cash bets on the hare to six bookies.
 
2012-04-20 06:15:16 PM

frtmn7: It is not suppose to have an answer, they just want to see the kids logic in concluding one and the ability to problem solve under pressure. Kinda like being asked in a job interview "How many planes fly out of Hartsfield Jackson airport daily" or "How many tee shots happen daily at a public golf course". You are suppose to logically think out an answer and defend it while being able to show problem solving skills. Granted, it is a little much to ask of 8th graders, but you could judge some creativity without having a "right" answer.


Only, as has been pointed out several times, it is multiple choice. As so:

"Several thousand angry cats take the Straight Road from Hartsfield Jackson airport daily in order to maintain an unrelenting assault on their hated enemies in Valinor. Ultimately, the Valar contacted Ainu, the One, and told him to take off his sunglasses to provide them the means with which to defeat this ceaseless feline siege. Ainu, busy sipping Yuengling Lite from the infinite surface area of Gabriel's Golf Tee, simply told them: Be men, not mice. Then Ainu put on his sunglasses and said "YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAH" before he used the Secret Fire to heat some green tea and have a three way with Darth Baras and Poggle the Lesser."

Who was the hungriest?

A) Darth Baras

B) Gog and Magog

C) The Virgin Connie Swails

D) Plaid Water

How did they get to Hogwarts?

A) By candle light

B) A spelljammer ship

C) Granola Bars

D) Ugly


There is no essay, only Zuul.
 
2012-04-20 06:21:32 PM

californiadiver: RobSeace: Fish in a Barrel: I thought the story was a little Voight-Kampff-esque, too.

Holden: I mean: you're not helping! You're just sitting there, not racing! Why is that, Leon?

Uhhh, because..... I'm a pineapple?


Very good, Leon! Now, describe in single words only the good things that come into your mind about... your mother.
 
2012-04-20 06:22:32 PM
Um,

I read this and

owl 42.

;)
 
2012-04-20 06:27:56 PM
No that's just the replicant test.
 
2012-04-20 06:36:50 PM
The pineapple was placed in front of the starting line prior to the start of the race.
The race was therefore invalid.
The rabbit ran anyway because it was to stupid to register a protest.
The pineapple was drug tested and found to contain an extraordinarily high amount of
THC, the animals ate it to get high.
The smartest creature was the pineapple, knowing that being eaten would free it for another turn on the wheel of karma.
It came back as George Bush and went on to rule the greatest nation on earth, but that's another story.
 
2012-04-20 06:51:05 PM
Beginning with paragraph 4, in what order are the events in the story told?

B In the order in which the events happen

From the fourth paragraph on they unfold in a linearly.

The animals ate the pineapple most likely because they were

C Annoyed

The animals thought the pineapple tricked them and were annoyed, whether they were correct isn't relevant.

Which animal spoke the wisest words?

D The owl

Only statement verifiable

Before the race, how did the animals feel toward the pineapple?
A Suspicious

The hare accused the pineapple and planted suspicion in the other animals creating a confirmation bias.

What would have happened if the animals had decided to cheer for the hare?

D They would have been happy to have cheered for a winner.

If doubt had not been introduced, they would have been glad their favorite had won.

When the moose said that the pineapple has some trick up its sleeve, he means that the pineapple

C has a plan to fool the animals

It's an idiom.

The nouns are nonsensical, but the information to follow the characters and the narrative are clear. As a reading and word parsing comprehension test it works, but what they're trying to assess with it is beyond me.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/talking-pineapple-question-state-e xam-stumps-article-1.1064657#ixzz1sch868Pk
 
2012-04-20 06:55:14 PM
Russ1642 ,
Fish in a Barrel: Arkanaut: You laugh now, Daily News, but do you have a better way of telling which of our children are actually replicants?
I thought the story was a little Voight-Kampff-esque, too.
This might also be some kind of calibration question. Although I'm not sure what a nonsense question would be used to calibrate. Perhaps identify cheating if too many people chose the same answer?
Could be.


Could it be testing problem solving skills, being able to prioritize. That is if a question on the test is too hard, move on, get to it later.

Arkanaut: You laugh now, Daily News, but do you have a better way of telling which of our children are actually replicants?

Best answer right there.
 
2012-04-20 06:58:12 PM
to RembrandtQEinstein: je suis....anana!
 
2012-04-20 06:58:26 PM
Cats hate Valinor?

Is this all I'm getting outta this nonsense?
 
2012-04-20 06:59:50 PM
From the fourth paragraph on they unfold in a linearly.

Whoops, stoney typo--the reason I decided to answer those in the first place.
 
2012-04-20 07:01:22 PM
The owl tells everyone that pineapples have no sleeves. It is the wisest.
The animals eat the pineapple because they were tricked ( annoyed )
The moose thinks the pineapple has something up its sleeve - the answer to the last Q is C
The second last Q is D

Its a good question
 
2012-04-20 07:03:54 PM

bacchanalias and consequences: Beginning with paragraph 4, in what order are the events in the story told?

B In the order in which the events happen

From the fourth paragraph on they unfold in a linearly.

The animals ate the pineapple most likely because they were

C Annoyed

The animals thought the pineapple tricked them and were annoyed, whether they were correct isn't relevant.

Which animal spoke the wisest words?

D The owl

Only statement verifiable

Before the race, how did the animals feel toward the pineapple?
A Suspicious

The hare accused the pineapple and planted suspicion in the other animals creating a confirmation bias.

What would have happened if the animals had decided to cheer for the hare?

D They would have been happy to have cheered for a winner.

If doubt had not been introduced, they would have been glad their favorite had won.

When the moose said that the pineapple has some trick up its sleeve, he means that the pineapple

C has a plan to fool the animals

It's an idiom.

The nouns are nonsensical, but the information to follow the characters and the narrative are clear. As a reading and word parsing comprehension test it works, but what they're trying to assess with it is beyond me.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/talking-pineapple-question-state-e xam-stumps-article-1.1064657#ixzz1sch868Pk


yes, and the crow was the stupid animal, convincing the others that the pineapple had a great plan.
 
2012-04-20 07:05:50 PM

algrant33: StoPPeRmobile: algrant33: You know, when you get SO many presumably-intelligent people who use different methods to arrive at DIFFERENT answers which are all OBVIOUSLY correct to the person who answered that way, it's almost as though the question has many different valid interpretations which yield different results. Such a question HAS no correct answer and it has no business being on an 8th-grade reading test.

Or is this the 8th-grade reading test's version of a FARK Politics tab discussion?

[t3.gstatic.com image 172x229]

Okay, is that Plato and his cave, or is that the guy who did the blind man and the elephant?


Is there a correct answer?
 
2012-04-20 07:06:02 PM

ktybear: The owl tells everyone that pineapples have no sleeves. It is the wisest.
The animals eat the pineapple because they were tricked ( annoyed )
The moose thinks the pineapple has something up its sleeve - the answer to the last Q is C
The second last Q is D

Its a good question


Apostrophe error.

;)

P.S. Owl 42.
 
2012-04-20 07:08:50 PM

Indubitably: ktybear: The owl tells everyone that pineapples have no sleeves. It is the wisest.
The animals eat the pineapple because they were tricked ( annoyed )
The moose thinks the pineapple has something up its sleeve - the answer to the last Q is C
The second last Q is D

Its a good question

Apostrophe error.

;)

P.S. Owl 42.


I blame my fuzzy brain
 
2012-04-20 07:11:37 PM

wambu: Seems simple enough.

1. Why did the animals eat the pineapple?
a. they were annoyed


2. Who was the wisest?
a. the hare


3. ?
a.


Frith Approves!
 
2012-04-20 07:19:04 PM

Crewmannumber6: Here we go again
[i11.photobucket.com image 205x143]


i441.photobucket.com
 
2012-04-20 07:19:27 PM

ktybear: Indubitably: ktybear: The owl tells everyone that pineapples have no sleeves. It is the wisest.
The animals eat the pineapple because they were tricked ( annoyed )
The moose thinks the pineapple has something up its sleeve - the answer to the last Q is C
The second last Q is D

Its a good question

Apostrophe error.

;)

P.S. Owl 42.

I blame my fuzzy brain


Me too, babe.

;)
 
2012-04-20 07:41:24 PM

The Third Man: Fano: 2. How is a raven like a writing desk?

It is nevar placed back to front.


Flacco's center begs to differ. Go Ravens!
 
2012-04-20 07:47:38 PM
The owl said the wisest words, although that's mainly because he said the least. What he said was pedantic, obvious, and condescending, but everybody else made him look like a frikkin' genius by comparison.
 
2012-04-20 07:49:17 PM
I spend thousands of dollars a year so kids can have sex with their teachers and this is the kind of crap testing they get?
 
2012-04-20 07:50:09 PM
Ok I tried it. B, A, D, B, D, C
So where is the answer key, or did I skip ahead too early?
 
2012-04-20 07:52:16 PM
A, A, A, D, C
 
2012-04-20 07:53:52 PM

frtmn7: It is not suppose to have an answer, they just want to see the kids logic in concluding one and the ability to problem solve under pressure. Kinda like being asked in a job interview "How many planes fly out of Hartsfield Jackson airport daily" or "How many tee shots happen daily at a public golf course". You are suppose to logically think out an answer and defend it while being able to show problem solving skills. Granted, it is a little much to ask of 8th graders, but you could judge some creativity without having a "right" answer.


But it's multiple choice. If there is no correct answer, there is no way to differentiate between random guess and an answer with some sort of logic behind it.
 
2012-04-20 07:54:40 PM

MooseUpNorth: The owl said the wisest words, although that's mainly because he said the least. What he said was pedantic, obvious, and condescending, but everybody else made him look like a frikkin' genius by comparison.


oooh.

i sense bitter much?

and how is that working out for you?

;)
 
2012-04-20 08:00:54 PM

BeesNuts: fisker: Quote FTFA:

AS an eighth grader I would like to say that this is not the version of the story that was on the test and the Animals ate the pineapple because they were annoyed that they had cheered for a loser. Also there was an owl in that version who said "pineapples don't have sleeves" which made him the wisest.

As an adult I would like to say that I already suspected the transcription of this story to be inaccurate, so thanks for clarifying that... but I would *also* like to say that the only way to know that those two particular answers are the "correct" answers, the story itself would have had to literally declare them so.

Something like a sentence in the story saying "This annoyed the animals." and "The wise owl said..."

In which case it's still a farking awful question because you're not testing reading comprehension, your testing regurgitation and keywording.


Even if that's 100% true, it's a stupid story and a stupid set of questions. It's not even testing keywording if there had to be a sentence like "This annoyed the animals so..." followed by a question "Why did the animals eat the pineapple?" because what you've then done is had kids read a story penned by a ball-tripping adult to throw them two answers. If you must have a keywording test, why not make it, you know, an actual TEST instead of a story written after taking acid and watching too many episodes of SpongeBob SquarePants and Bullwinkle & Rocky?
 
2012-04-20 08:06:36 PM

namegoeshere: frtmn7: It is not suppose to have an answer, they just want to see the kids logic in concluding one and the ability to problem solve under pressure. Kinda like being asked in a job interview "How many planes fly out of Hartsfield Jackson airport daily" or "How many tee shots happen daily at a public golf course". You are suppose to logically think out an answer and defend it while being able to show problem solving skills. Granted, it is a little much to ask of 8th graders, but you could judge some creativity without having a "right" answer.

But it's multiple choice. If there is no correct answer, there is no way to differentiate between random guess and an answer with some sort of logic behind it.


Is that a real method for test creation? It seems a bit simplified. It would not hurt to give longer time limits so they do not have to build an expectation of bubble filling into the questions.

You can really learn a lot about people when you ask them abstract questions.
 
2012-04-20 08:12:35 PM
If you read this right after it was originally posted, both the story and the questions have changed significantly.
 
2012-04-20 08:16:23 PM

Indubitably: i sense bitter much?


In the early-mid 80s, there was a "standardized test" type pilot program where, every week for a month or so before it was quietly dropped, 6th grade students in my province had to restore a short story that had roughly half of the nouns blanked out. No word clouds or any other kind of assistance.

/ Apparently, my teacher wrote a letter protesting that asinine program, where she made a point of blanking out every fifth word.
// Awesome teacher.
 
2012-04-20 08:19:37 PM

MacWizard: If you read this right after it was originally posted, both the story and the questions have changed significantly.


i2.listal.com

Aaaand thennnnn?
 
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