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(CBS News)   2011 was the worst year for measles since 1986. On the bright side, all the victims were autism free   (cbsnews.com) divider line 209
    More: Sad, measles, Pat Summitt, autism, SciTech High, Super Bowl XLVI, premature birth, measles cases  
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5808 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Apr 2012 at 7:02 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-19 10:34:09 PM  

MrEricSir: remotecody: Everyone should watch this.

Penn and Teller - Vaccinations (Full Episode)

Right, because you should take medical advice from magicians -- not models!


You know how I know you didn't watch the program?
 
2012-04-19 10:34:52 PM  

meat0918: It's self correcting.

A couple more kids die, and parents will start to get their precious snowflakes vaccinated.

It's sad and unfortunate we need to repeat this every few decades to remind people why we farking vaccinate.

//The cynic in me says vaccinations won't increase until some celebrity or rich person's unvaccinated kid dies.


The big problem is that by breaking herd immunity it might not be their kid that dies but rather some newborn too young to be vaccinated or someones kid who can't take the vaccine for a legitimate reason. What I think would be interesting is if someone files a civil suite against an anti-vaxxer after their kid dies from something they wouldn't have otherwise caught.
 
2012-04-19 10:37:49 PM  
NotARocketScientist:

Learned on Fark that the vaccine you get for that as a kid wears off when you are an adult. Confirmed that with a Dr. Going to get hubby and I booster shots.

The CDC has handy printable charts of their recommendations. Expect to make 3 trips to the doctor's, some vaccines require 3 shots at 0, 30 and 90 days.

/ got all of my boosters about a year ago
 
2012-04-19 10:40:27 PM  

That_Dude: T.rex: Who'dve thunk... At a time, in which we have more people than ever, the sum of people with a particular ailment is also greater. Jenny McCarthy is surely to blame.

Let's see what the article has to say about Europe:

Health official say outbreaks in the U.S. have been fueled by low vaccination rates in Europe and elsewhere. In 2011, Europe reported more than 26,000 measles cases and nine deaths -- three times the amount of cases seen in 2007 according to the World Health Organization, HealthPop reported.

Now, I'm assuming that the population of Europe hasn't tripled in the last five years, so the likely cause of the increase over there probably has to do more with vaccination rates than population growth.


Umm...isn't health care free in Europe?
 
2012-04-19 10:40:52 PM  

doyner: Interesting darwinian twist. You reproduce but are too stupid to keep your offspring alive.


And we're done here.
 
2012-04-19 10:47:29 PM  

BronyMedic: I wish nothing but bad things on anti-vaxxers.

Yes. There are children who LEGITIMATELY cannot receive a vaccine. They have impaired immune systems, or they are allergic to the vaccine or it's constituents.

Chances are, your perfectly healthy little snowflake is NOT one of those. And thanks to your selfish inability to do simple risk vs. benefit calculations, your little plague rat has now put every child who CANNOT get that vaccine at risk.



All of this.

\Science: How does it work?
 
2012-04-19 10:50:03 PM  
Well you'll be happy to know that Fark is represented in the 222 confirmed cases last year -- I caught it in France last summer. So I'm 0.45% of all the cases in the country last year, woo! I am bitter that I didn't start an epidemic -- this after flying home from San Jose via Denver Concourse B and on through Boston, within a day of my so-called "contagious period". Sorry, didn't know I had the measles. Neither did the first emergency room doctor, who we went to when my fever got to 104.

Anyway, important safety tip for Gen Xers -- MMR vaccine went into use in the 1960s. MA Dept't of Health basically told me "yeah it kinda sucked back then". I had one dose of MMR when I was little, which was standard but as it turns out INADEQUATE. A second dose of the MMR vaccine did not start to be recommended until 1990, leaving those of us who are teenagers of the 1980s at definite risk if you travel to France or Spain in particular -- 10000+ cases last year in France.

Measles is for reals, it sucked. Have your immunity to measles tested before you travel to Europe, especially if you're in your 40s and perhaps only had one MMR shot like I did.
 
2012-04-19 10:50:24 PM  

gimmegimme: You know how I know you didn't watch the program?


I watched a few episodes of Bullshiat before I realized Penn & Teller were more interested in pushing their agenda than actual science. So you're right, I'm not terribly interested in watching the show.
 
2012-04-19 10:52:05 PM  

meat0918: It's self correcting.

A couple more kids die, and parents will start to get their precious snowflakes vaccinated.


This doesn't seem to work here in L.A. When there's an outbreak of something preventable with vaccination, the parents just withdraw their kids from school, and keep them sequestered at home with a nanny or other caregiver who has been vaccinated. The parents will even pay to have their nannies vaccinated, but they won't vaccinate their own kids.

I've ever heard of several incidents where the nannies themselves, most of whom are uneducated Latina women, are refusing to vaccinate their own children because of all the "risks" of vaccination; they found out about all these risks (like autism) from their employers...

\live in Los Angeles
\\been a parent here for 5 years now
 
2012-04-19 10:53:44 PM  

AverageAmericanGuy: MrEricSir: Swagulus: It always seemed weird to me how many vaccine white knights there are on fark....Those pharmaceutical companies really know how to work the interweb....

Right, because having 100% of the science on your side makes you shill!

[citation needed]


Sigh... just go read this. It's long, but interesting and worth a read. The entire "controversy" was started by a scientist who modified his data to make it look like a correlation existed, then pushed the derp all the way when he was called out on his shiat.
 
2012-04-19 11:03:01 PM  

ciberido: Spoon over Marin: There were a few incidences where someone with AIDS intentionally infected partners. That was intentional though. I think they tried one guy for manslaughter Can't remember if he served time for it.

As of 2006, that was very much in the "only an urban legend" category, so unless you can back that claim up, I'm gonna have to go with, no, there weren't, and no, they didn't.


Yes there is a fellow here in Canada. Carlo Leone. He infected a couple of strippers and went to jail for it.
 
2012-04-19 11:12:06 PM  

Umfufu: That_Dude: T.rex: Who'dve thunk... At a time, in which we have more people than ever, the sum of people with a particular ailment is also greater. Jenny McCarthy is surely to blame.

Let's see what the article has to say about Europe:

Health official say outbreaks in the U.S. have been fueled by low vaccination rates in Europe and elsewhere. In 2011, Europe reported more than 26,000 measles cases and nine deaths -- three times the amount of cases seen in 2007 according to the World Health Organization, HealthPop reported.

Now, I'm assuming that the population of Europe hasn't tripled in the last five years, so the likely cause of the increase over there probably has to do more with vaccination rates than population growth.

Umm...isn't health care free in Europe?


Europe is pretty broad. And some areas are relatively poor and/or highly corrupt. A direct comparison between the US and Europe as a whole is not very good. If you limited it Western Europe you could make a far better comparison. But there are more variables.
You still have to go into why the vaccination rates are different. For example, following the pulicization of Wakefield's fraud, the vaccination rate in the UK dropped considerably (down to around 2/3 IIRC) and those people will continue to affect statistics for decades (the oldest are only 13 years old now).
 
2012-04-19 11:14:19 PM  
I'm one of those adults that had crappier vaccinations as a kid. Thankfully a couple of past jobs (one in healthcare, one that required travel to isolated tropical places...God I miss that job...) required I have titers for all of my vaccinations to see if they were still good, and boosters for the ones that needed it (measles and whooping cough in my case). Last ones were done in 2007, my kids have all of their shots so hopefully we'll all be immune from these idiots.
 
2012-04-19 11:17:26 PM  
Where are the numbers on consumption?
 
2012-04-19 11:18:26 PM  

MrEricSir: gimmegimme: You know how I know you didn't watch the program?

I watched a few episodes of Bullshiat before I realized Penn & Teller were more interested in pushing their agenda than actual science. So you're right, I'm not terribly interested in watching the show.


Since that is the case, I'm so glad that you made your comments. We all benefited from your learned analysis.
 
HBK
2012-04-19 11:34:45 PM  

ciberido: Spoon over Marin: There were a few incidences where someone with AIDS intentionally infected partners. That was intentional though. I think they tried one guy for manslaughter Can't remember if he served time for it.

As of 2006, that was very much in the "only an urban legend" category, so unless you can back that claim up, I'm gonna have to go with, no, there weren't, and no, they didn't.


Link

Link.

It seems like more than an urban legend. People are getting charged and sued for intentionally or recklessly spreading HIV/AIDS.
 
2012-04-19 11:43:32 PM  
You'll never change people's mind about this. The science says vaccines are fine, and I'm not a moron so I believe the science. You can't convince idiots not to be idiots. If you use the word "mommy instinct" as a counter-argument to "science" you're an idiot. So let's watch them kill their children and pray they don't suffer too much, because we can't save them.

By "we" I mean the non idiots.
 
2012-04-19 11:47:42 PM  

UCFRoadWarrior: Vaxx-Bots probably should pick another disease to whaarrggarbl over.

It is only recently that everyone got measles vaccines. In fact, it was not unusual for all kids to catch measles at some time.

I'll take the concerns over autism from a vaccine, than going hysterical over a disease that many kids caught and survived with no side effects


From teh Wiki:

Complications with measles are relatively common, ranging from relatively mild and less serious diarrhea, to pneumonia, Otitis media and acute encephalitis (and rarely subacute sclerosing panencephalitis); corneal ulceration leading to corneal scarring. Complications are usually more severe in adults who catch the virus.
Between the years 1987 and 2000, the case fatality rate across the United States was three measles-attributable deaths per 1000 cases, or 0.3%.[6] In underdeveloped nations with high rates of malnutrition and poor healthcare, fatality rates have been as high as 28%.[6] In immunocompromised patients (e.g. people with AIDS) the fatality rate is approximately 30%.

So measles complications can do things like make you go blind or kill you. And you are at more risk as an adult or under 5yrs old for these complications.

But by all means, let's keep quoting debunked theories about autism from the doctor who has been stripped of his medical standing after falsifying data for it. Link

/cause that makes us smart!
 
2012-04-19 11:50:00 PM  
I think the saddest part is that if we vaccinated everyone right now, the diseases we vaccinate for that only spread through humans will be extinct and we'll never need those vaccines again.

They never seem to understand that.
 
2012-04-19 11:55:54 PM  

Queensowntalia: There was an episode of L&O SVU about a woman who's non-vaccinated child killed another child by infecting him with measles (or some similar disease). They ended up trying her for something or another. Don't remember how it turned out, but it was a good episode.




wow. You really brought that story to life!.
 
2012-04-20 12:03:18 AM  

T.rex: That_Dude: T.rex: Who'dve thunk... At a time, in which we have more people than ever, the sum of people with a particular ailment is also greater. Jenny McCarthy is surely to blame.

Let's see what the article has to say about Europe:

Health official say outbreaks in the U.S. have been fueled by low vaccination rates in Europe and elsewhere. In 2011, Europe reported more than 26,000 measles cases and nine deaths -- three times the amount of cases seen in 2007 according to the World Health Organization, HealthPop reported.

Now, I'm assuming that the population of Europe hasn't tripled in the last five years, so the likely cause of the increase over there probably has to do more with vaccination rates than population growth.

Is there date to suggest that Europe is getting less vaccinations than they ever have? Vaccinations are an American fad... Other countries aren't fooled into that Big Pharma. Is there data to suggest that vaccinations correlate to less disease?

In 50 to 100 years, viral cause of disease will be no longer be taught.


27.media.tumblr.com
 
2012-04-20 12:07:00 AM  

Little.Alex: Queensowntalia: There was an episode of L&O SVU about a woman who's non-vaccinated child killed another child by infecting him with measles (or some similar disease). They ended up trying her for something or another. Don't remember how it turned out, but it was a good episode.



wow. You really brought that story to life!.


I know everyone was just on the edge of their seats, awaiting my commentary. Couldn't keep 'em in suspense, you know.
 
2012-04-20 12:23:20 AM  

dywed88: The only purported evidence (the Lancet paper) has been widely debunked.


By the Lancet in fact, who are a medical journal held in high regard. In fact the paper often cited said words to the effect of "there might be a remote possibility of a link, we need to investigate more."

So they did and discovered "Nope, our bad, statistical anomaly caused by the new standards". But that doesn't stop these anti-vax morons.

Seriously, if you have kids, get them vaccinated. If you don't want to. Don't have kids, you will be by default a bad parent.
 
2012-04-20 12:37:45 AM  

Vaneshi: dywed88: The only purported evidence (the Lancet paper) has been widely debunked.

By the Lancet in fact, who are a medical journal held in high regard. In fact the paper often cited said words to the effect of "there might be a remote possibility of a link, we need to investigate more."

So they did and discovered "Nope, our bad, statistical anomaly caused by the new standards". But that doesn't stop these anti-vax morons.

Seriously, if you have kids, get them vaccinated. If you don't want to. Don't have kids, you will be by default a bad parent.

============================
I'm pretty sure that the guy who wrote the Lancet paper lost his medical license.

As per Wiki:

On 28 January 2010, a five-member statutory tribunal of the GMC found three dozen charges proved, including four counts of dishonesty and 12 counts involving the abuse of developmentally challenged children.[7] The panel ruled that Wakefield had "failed in his duties as a responsible consultant", acted both against the interests of his patients, and "dishonestly and irresponsibly" in his published research.[8][9][10] The Lancet immediately and fully retracted his 1998 publication on the basis of the GMC's findings, noting that elements of the manuscript had been falsified.[11] Wakefield was struck off the Medical Register in May 2010, with a statement identifying dishonest falsification in the Lancet research,[12] and is barred from practising medicine in the UK.[13]

In January 2011, an editorial accompanying an article by Brian Deer in BMJ identified Wakefield's work as an "elaborate fraud".[1][14][15] In a follow-up article,[16] Deer said that Wakefield had planned to launch a venture on the back of an MMR vaccination scare that would profit from new medical tests and "litigation driven testing".[17] However, by that time, Wakefield's study and public recommendations against the use of the combined MMR vaccine were linked to a steep decline in vaccination rates in the United Kingdom and a corresponding rise in measles cases, resulting in serious illness and fatalities.[
 
2012-04-20 12:38:58 AM  

dywed88: Not quite intentially killing, but in Canada, just a couple years ago, a man was convicted of two cases of first degree murder for not informing the women of him being HIV positive and/or wearing protection.
And other people were convicted of crimes in a number of countries. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_transmission_of_HIV


In that case, I am very, very happy to be wrong.
 
2012-04-20 12:42:35 AM  

cptjeff: NtropiK: really suffering from South Korean 'Fan Death'.

That's a best korea thing.


No, the "fan death" urban legend is very widespread in South Korea. Most people in North Korea can't afford fans.
 
2012-04-20 12:45:13 AM  
Subby, I give you a +1 for making me chuckle at the end of a very bad week.
 
2012-04-20 12:53:01 AM  
In the Aziga case the argument was based on a charge of sexual assault because the women were unable to give informed consent (the same idea as statutory rape, or date rape drug type cases) due to his non-disclosure amounting to fraud by omission. The reason it became first degree murder (rather than simply being manslaughter) is that the Criminal Code of Canada makes any death as a result of agravated sexual assault is automatically first degree murder.
 
2012-04-20 01:06:39 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: sovietski: While my baby (who will be here in June) will not go un-vaccinated, it sets me ill at ease to wonder how many of his future playmates will be at risk for diseases that could be prevented.

Baby sovietski will have all his shots (unless he ends up being allergic to one of the ingredients in vaccines--god I hope not). To me, it's not worth the risk. I had/have all mine and so does his dad.

The risk goes both ways. Every parent weighs the risk of disease to the risk of reaction.


The difference is that some parents have an accurate understanding of the risks of vaccines, and others think that vaccines are linked to autism.

/the two sets are not exhaustive
//but they are disjoint
 
2012-04-20 01:13:20 AM  

ciberido: cptjeff: NtropiK: really suffering from South Korean 'Fan Death'.

That's a best korea thing.

No, the "fan death" urban legend is very widespread in South Korea. Most people in North Korea can't afford fans.


Yup. Last I heard you couldn't buy a fan there that didn't have an automatic timer turning it off.

And here I am leaving a fan on in my kids' room at night for white noise... I must be trying to kill them :(
 
2012-04-20 01:36:38 AM  

BronyMedic: TravisBickle62: A kid in Texas got retarded cause of the vaccine

[Citation Vaccintation Needed]


FTFY
 
2012-04-20 01:39:12 AM  

UCFRoadWarrior: Vaxx-Bots probably should pick another disease to whaarrggarbl over.

It is only recently that everyone got measles vaccines. In fact, it was not unusual for all kids to catch measles at some time.

I'll take the concerns over autism from a vaccine, than going hysterical over a disease that many kids caught and survived with no side effects


Just so I'm clear here, you're a birther and an anti-vaxxer?
 
2012-04-20 02:31:35 AM  
meat0918:
What amazes me is we seem to have accepted that the flu shot is very hit or miss, and there doesn't seem to be an adequate amount of funding there to really drive towards a better vaccine for influenza. The vaccine scientists aren't ignoring it, and there is some funding there, so hopefully we get a break thru soon and instead of the educated guess we have at the moment, it's one shot every few years instead of a shot every year.

I realize a one time vaccination for flu is a long shot, but is something worth pursuing.

The flu virus is basically one virus with a large wardrobe of different protein coats to wear, allowing it to appear as a totally different virus to the immune system.

I recall, some years back, as a "gee whiz" story about the Human Genome Project, or HGP, that they had analyzed only the part of the flu virus that is common to all of the various strains, and compared it to the human genome. Genes are essentially blueprints for proteins, and the common part of flu viruses have exactly one protein that the human body does not produce -- an enzyme that softens cell walls. It's easy to see both why an infectious virus has this enzyme, and why a human body does not.

At any rate, designing an enzyme that takes apart this cell-softening enzyme would allow the production of a pill that, if taken at the first signs of flu, would prevent the disease from infecting new cells, and the body's own systems would eliminate the problem itself. In other words, take a pill when you are starting to feel down, and have a fever, and no flu viruses can invade healthy cells after that point. The scientist in charge of the research was using this to show how this, and other solutions, could be found for a variety of problems, courtesy of the HGP. It certainly seemed like a practical and elegant solution -- destroy an enzyme that our bodies don't use.

I haven't seen anything of this since then. Anyone know anything about it?
 
2012-04-20 02:43:57 AM  
gimmegimme:
MrEricSir: remotecody: Everyone should watch this.

Penn and Teller - Vaccinations (Full Episode)

Right, because you should take medical advice from magicians -- not models!

You know how I know you didn't watch the program?

Well, you're RIGHT, obviously, but there's a better issue than that. The old "oh, you listen to MAGICIANS?" argument is specious. Think about it... Penn and Teller are some of the most talented people in the world at fooling almost everyone at once. Their expertise is EXACTLY what is needed to sort through the organized disinformation being used to influence public opinion.

For example, on Global Warming... (NSFW language)

 
2012-04-20 02:46:04 AM  
If you don't get your kids vaccinated, you're an idiot. Pretty much end of story.

The autism link study was not only wrong, it was fraudulent.

The chances of side effects are vanishingly small compared to the chances of serious complications from the diseases they prevent, making it in your own self interest (and your child's) to get vaccinated. This is completely aside from societal considerations such as herd immunity and protection from epidemic of the immuno-compromised or those that can't be vaccinated.

If you do not vaccinate, you are wrong. That's it.
 
2012-04-20 02:50:29 AM  

TommyymmoT:
I'm pretty sure that the guy who wrote the Lancet paper lost his medical license.


suits me either way. My point on vaccinate them or don't have them still stands and is non-negotiable.
 
2012-04-20 03:04:51 AM  

ciberido: cptjeff: NtropiK: really suffering from South Korean 'Fan Death'.

That's a best korea thing.

No, the "fan death" urban legend is very widespread in South Korea. Most people in North Korea can't afford fans.


Wasn't that a case of wrong thing right social group? I remember reading a theory that it was carbon monoxide poisoning from poorly maintained gas appliances, but it was prevelant in the low income areas where it was more common to have fans instead of the more expensive air conditioners. I also remember sleeping on the floor being a common factor, which would tally.
 
2012-04-20 03:06:06 AM  

Gothnet:
If you do not vaccinate, you are wrong. That's it.


and your kids should be taken away for their own protection.
 
2012-04-20 03:31:41 AM  

lizaardvark: The odds of getting measles are are near to nothing as makes no nevermind. What are the odds of having a dangerous reaction to a vaccination? Just a little thought for the "herd immunity" sheep.


You're not good at math OR biology, are you?
 
2012-04-20 03:34:16 AM  

portnoyd: lizaardvark: The odds of getting measles are are near to nothing as makes no nevermind. What are the odds of having a dangerous reaction to a vaccination? Just a little thought for the "herd immunity" sheep.

How about that, one of the antivaccination morons made it onto the Internet. What an interesting curiosity.

This is a prime specimen too! It makes a troll comment about herd immunity, where the first part of the statement is a result of the focus of the troll comment itself.

Hopefully this moronic creature will not return to its native habitat of being a moron off the Internet so we can better study this type of cretin.


If you want more of them to study, head over to FreeRepublic.
Be advised they ban you for asking inconvenient questions, though.
Or posting irritating things like facts...
 
2012-04-20 04:18:15 AM  

sharkbeagle: To me, it's a self correcting problem. Eventually all the tards in tardistan reach the end of their evolutionary chain and die out.


images.wikia.com
 
2012-04-20 05:41:02 AM  

ciberido: Spoon over Marin: There were a few incidences where someone with AIDS intentionally infected partners. That was intentional though. I think they tried one guy for manslaughter Can't remember if he served time for it.

As of 2006,
that was very much in the "only an urban legend" category, so unless you can back that claim up, I'm gonna have to go with, no, there weren't, and no, they didn't.

Link

Is your google broken?
 
2012-04-20 05:51:36 AM  

sno man: Not that I was going out of my way to make a point there, but that wasn't it either way... In socialized medicine there is no charge to the person or guardian of (parent), for most common vaccines... Taking the cost totally out of the equation.


In socialized medicine as here in France the prices are controlled and you only pay about 30% for the price. "Securitié sociale" as the french call it only covers about 70%, unless your family in very poor. Most of us however have "mutuelle" wiht our jobs that cover the other 30%
 
2012-04-20 06:26:56 AM  

ciberido: doyner: Interesting darwinian twist. You reproduce but are too stupid to keep your offspring alive.

If we as a society ever get to the point where one has to pass some sort of test before one is allowed to be a parent (and I'm not saying that we will, or should), the test ought to include questions like:

1) If a qualified medical expert tells you that your child needs a vaccine, will you get your child a vaccine?
2) If a qualified medical expert tells you that your child needs a blood transfusion, will you get your child the blood transfusion?

Answering "no" to either question would mean you fail the test.


Unless you are one of those nutcase JW who believe that their particular imaginary sky-wizard won't let them or the kid into heaven if they let doctors give them blood transfusion.

If you are JW and are insulted, you deserve to be.
 
2012-04-20 08:51:42 AM  

Swagulus: It always seemed weird to me how many vaccine white knights there are on fark....Those pharmaceutical companies really know how to work the interweb....


That's pretty good trolling. Or complete derp. One of the two.
 
2012-04-20 09:49:16 AM  
upload.wikimedia.org

VS

www.bearsgab.com

Who's more convincing?
 
2012-04-20 10:00:38 AM  
Vaccines are for chumps. I immunize my kids the old-fashioned way: I intentionally expose them to the disease so they can build up an immunity. We lost one kid to the smallpox and our oldest has brain damage from the measles, but otherwise it's been working great. We're currently looking for someone with polio, if anyone has any suggestions.
 
2012-04-20 10:37:55 AM  
AiryAnne:
[upload.wikimedia.org image 220x336]

VS

[www.bearsgab.com image 315x422]

Who's more convincing?


You have to admit that she has a couple of impressive points...
 
2012-04-20 10:54:48 AM  

GeneralJim: AiryAnne: [upload.wikimedia.org image 220x336]

VS

[www.bearsgab.com image 315x422]

Who's more convincing?

You have to admit that she has a couple of impressive points...


They were impressive 15 years ago. Vaccines still work.
 
2012-04-20 11:15:08 AM  
gimmegimme:
They were impressive 15 years ago. Vaccines still work.


cdn2.holytaco.com
OH, SNAP!
 
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