Vaxx-Bots probably should pick another disease to whaarrggarbl over.

It is only recently that everyone got measles vaccines. In fact, it was not unusual for all kids to catch measles at some time.

I'll take the concerns over autism from a vaccine, than going hysterical over a disease that many kids caught and survived with no side effects

GAT_00: Someone really needs to file murder charges against Jenny McCarthy.

... and anyone who takes medical advice from a stripper.

meat0918: Newsflash Ms. McCarthy: Vaccine safety is of paramount concern, and every vaccine developed is tested. Then tested again. And again. And again.

No amount of evidence will ever convince a conspiracy theorist that they are wrong, and if your tactic is to prove them wrong you're wasting your time.

tjsands1118:

Measles can cause sterility, natures way of weeding out idiots. I know it seems unfair, as the kids aren't necessarily idiots yet, but give a few years of that great parenting they're receiving and they will be,

Being stupid is, in most cases, likely to be a result of environmental factors and hereditary factors. By definition, children who remain unvaccinated have poor parenting, and stupid parents. Odds are, they carry the genes, as well. So, win-win. We keep trying to eliminate the death penalty for stupidity, but Darwin usually finds a way. Sterility has the same genetic effect as death, but is less cruel to the victims.

Jodeo: FTA:
"At least two-thirds of the Americans who got the measles hadn't been vaccinated."

So... as many as one-third of them were vaccinated???
Hmmmmm... How those vaccines working out for us?

Over 750,000 infections in a populaiton 175 million people in 1960 prior to vaccination. A bad year of 2011 has 222 cases out of a population of 310 million.
Infection Rates:
1960: 0.41824%
2011: 0.00007%
The rate in 1960 was 6000 times what it is today. Based on that I would say it is working extraordinarily well. And this ignores that a significant majority of the infected were unvaccinated and that the risk for any unvaccinated individual is significantly reduced by most other people being vaccinated.

Every week one of my kids brings home yet another letter from school regarding a new case of pertussis (whooping cough). I want to save them all up, roll them into a tight little cylinder, then go all Ash (Alien, not Evil Dead) on the first parent I find who won't vaccinate their kids.

meat0918: Has anyone successfully sued for sending a sick kid to school and causing the death of another?

Nobody ever managed to stop Typhoid Mary legally. They couldn't find a law she was actually breaking. Of course, criminal law and civil lawsuits work differently, but still ... we're still incredibly behind on this kind of thing.

AverageAmericanGuy: sovietski: AverageAmericanGuy: sovietski: While my baby (who will be here in June) will not go un-vaccinated, it sets me ill at ease to wonder how many of his future playmates will be at risk for diseases that could be prevented.

Baby sovietski will have all his shots (unless he ends up being allergic to one of the ingredients in vaccines--god I hope not). To me, it's not worth the risk. I had/have all mine and so does his dad.

The risk goes both ways. Every parent weighs the risk of disease to the risk of reaction.

I understand, completely. But as his parent, his health and well-being is going to be my responsibility for the foreseeable future. If he ends up being allergic or born with a compromised immune system, I couldn't/wouldn't risk it. I'd be Worst Parent Ever if I did.

Would you ever put your child on Toddlers & Tiaras?

Omg. No. That show and the dance mom show? I cringe.

Everyone should watch this.

Penn and Teller - Vaccinations (Full Episode)

sovietski: AverageAmericanGuy: sovietski: AverageAmericanGuy: sovietski: While my baby (who will be here in June) will not go un-vaccinated, it sets me ill at ease to wonder how many of his future playmates will be at risk for diseases that could be prevented.

Baby sovietski will have all his shots (unless he ends up being allergic to one of the ingredients in vaccines--god I hope not). To me, it's not worth the risk. I had/have all mine and so does his dad.

The risk goes both ways. Every parent weighs the risk of disease to the risk of reaction.

I understand, completely. But as his parent, his health and well-being is going to be my responsibility for the foreseeable future. If he ends up being allergic or born with a compromised immune system, I couldn't/wouldn't risk it. I'd be Worst Parent Ever if I did.

Would you ever put your child on Toddlers & Tiaras?

Omg. No. That show and the dance mom show? I cringe.

Then you wouldn't ever be the Worst Parent Ever.

This is the worst parent ever:

There's a really nice lady at work with a couple of young kids who mentioned that she stopped having them vaccinated because she believes that the autism crap is "too much of a coincidence". She also talks a lot about chain emails she receives, so it's pretty apparent she never does any sort of research to verify anything she hears. She's otherwise very cheerful and friendly, so I sort of feel bad for her.

gimmegimme: wildcardjack: I'm going to make a big step aside from the normal conversation...


Here's the problem: the definition of autism is constantly changing. Twenty years ago, the weird kid in class would have just been called a weirdo. Today, he has an autism spectrum disorder. When you are calling more things autism, you have to expect more autism.

So much this. It used to be "retarded" now it's "autistic". And strange people with strange behaviors who managed to function in society are now considered disabled in some fashion and will expect concessions in one way or another.

It will become more common as these children get older.

Spoon over Marin: There were a few incidences where someone with AIDS intentionally infected partners. That was intentional though. I think they tried one guy for manslaughter Can't remember if he served time for it.

As of 2006, that was very much in the "only an urban legend" category, so unless you can back that claim up, I'm gonna have to go with, no, there weren't, and no, they didn't.

Vaxx-Bots probably should pick another disease to whaarrggarbl over.

It is only recently that everyone got measles vaccines. In fact, it was not unusual for all kids to catch measles at some time.

Fine. Please reference the whooping cough article I posted earlier. That was a disease that was effectively wiped out. Thanks for bringing it back Anti-Vaxers!

/I have a friend who is unvaccinated due to an allergy to eggs (what vaccines are cultured in). You are risking his life by not vaccinating your kids.

mak3_7up_y0urs: There's a really nice lady at work with a couple of young kids who mentioned that she stopped having them vaccinated because she believes that the autism crap is "too much of a coincidence". She also talks a lot about chain emails she receives, so it's pretty apparent she never does any sort of research to verify anything she hears. She's otherwise very cheerful and friendly, so I sort of feel bad for her.

I've always wondered: as a society are we supposed to let fools be fools or are we under some moral obligation to help people see things for what they are.

Garble: Autism is caused by... something. We don't know what. We only know that it's definitely not the neurotoxic heavy metal deemed not safe for use in animal vaccines, but perfectly safe for human infants.

And an obscure actress is definitely more to blame for concerns of parents than a drug manufactures refusal to address these concerns with anything other than spiteful condescension.

You have a very good point there. Which vaccines given to children contain this neurotoxic heavy metal again? I'm only asking so that I can avoid them.

hammettman:

I think this thread has been Godwinned in the Boobies.

What being Godwinned in the Boobies
might look like

UCFRoadWarrior: than going hysterical over a disease that many kids caught and survived with no side effects

Many did survive, but it still has a mortality rate of 1/1000 in the developed world. That would be around 1300 deaths per year at 1960 infection rates. And ignoring every person who suffers short term or permanent injury from the disease.
On the other hand you have completely unsubstantiated claims. There is zero evidence for any link between autism and vaccines. The only purported evidence (the Lancet paper) has been widely debunked.

UCFRoadWarrior: Vaxx-Bots probably should pick another disease to whaarrggarbl over.

It is only recently that everyone got measles vaccines. In fact, it was not unusual for all kids to catch measles at some time.

I'll take the concerns over autism from a vaccine, than going hysterical over a disease that many kids caught and survived with no side effects

Possible side effects of measles (from a medical professional, but then, I assume you are, too, UFC) - Diarrhoea*, Eye Infections, Laryngitis, Earache*, Pneumonia*, Febrile Convulsions, Meningitis*, Encephilitis*, Hepatitis*, there are others, less common. I've taken the liberty of placing an asterisk (*) next to the ones that are deadly/cause permanent damage.

Possible side effects of vaccine - Fever, Acute joint swelling, anaphylaxis* (11 cases out of 40 million vaccines), Encephilitis* (again, less than one in a million). Also note the asterisks.

I fully realize that addition, subtraction and counting are well beyond any math skills you may have developed, so you'll just have to take my word when I say there is much greater danger from measles than from the vaccine. Dammit, I caught myself trying to use logic to sway you again. How's this: If you don't vaccinate your kids, you'll make Baby Jesus cry, and you like Obama and the ghays.

UCFRoadWarrior: Vaxx-Bots probably should pick another disease to whaarrggarbl over.

It is only recently that everyone got measles vaccines. In fact, it was not unusual for all kids to catch measles at some time.

I'll take the concerns over autism from a vaccine, than going hysterical over a disease that many kids caught and survived with no side effects

...I see you've never actually researched what measles can do. Measles is MUCH worse than autism could ever hope to be, in a much larger percentage of cases. And given that there is almost no risk to vaccines, autism or otherwise, I'd have to conclude that you're simply an idiot.

JWideman: This. Get measles as a kid, you don't have it as an adult. Get measles as an adult, you don't have kids.



/hot like having the measles
//rather scared I remembered that quote from MASH

UCFRoadWarrior: Vaxx-Bots probably should pick another disease to whaarrggarbl over.

It is only recently that everyone got measles vaccines. In fact, it was not unusual for all kids to catch measles at some time.

I'll take the concerns over autism from a vaccine, than going hysterical over a disease that many kids caught and survived with no side effects

Please please please be a troll.

ciberido: Spoon over Marin: There were a few incidences where someone with AIDS intentionally infected partners. That was intentional though. I think they tried one guy for manslaughter Can't remember if he served time for it.

As of 2006, that was very much in the "only an urban legend" category, so unless you can back that claim up, I'm gonna have to go with, no, there weren't, and no, they didn't.

Not quite intentially killing, but in Canada, just a couple years ago, a man was convicted of two cases of first degree murder for not informing the women of him being HIV positive and/or wearing protection.
And other people were convicted of crimes in a number of countries. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_transmission_of_HIV

chknjetski: I've always wondered: as a society are we supposed to let fools be fools or are we under some moral obligation to help people see things for what they are.

It wouldn't be that big of a deal, except they are not putting themselves at risk, they are putting their children and any people their children come into contact with at risk

NtropiK: really suffering from South Korean 'Fan Death'.

That's a best korea thing.

Great headline Subby.

chknjetski: mak3_7up_y0urs: There's a really nice lady at work with a couple of young kids who mentioned that she stopped having them vaccinated because she believes that the autism crap is "too much of a coincidence". She also talks a lot about chain emails she receives, so it's pretty apparent she never does any sort of research to verify anything she hears. She's otherwise very cheerful and friendly, so I sort of feel bad for her.

I've always wondered: as a society are we supposed to let fools be fools or are we under some moral obligation to help people see things for what they are.

I wonder the same thing myself, but I just can't bring myself to try and correct her. I'm a lot younger and I don't have children of my own, so I can't imagine she'd take it very well even if I tried.

gimmegimme: wildcardjack: I'm going to make a big step aside from the normal conversation...

Is there a inverse correlation between vaccination and autism? That is, are the unvaccinated 100% autism free?

I think of an ATC instructor I had who was anti-vax. First kid turned up autistic, didn't vaccinate the next three autistic kids. I met the wife, a sweet person but I don't think she had a warm room temperature IQ. In other words... it was the shallow end of the gene pool. Anyhow, they moved back to Florida where their house never sold and he got the exact job he had wanted.

Here's the problem: the definition of autism is constantly changing. Twenty years ago, the weird kid in class would have just been called a weirdo. Today, he has an autism spectrum disorder. When you are calling more things autism, you have to expect more autism.

As somebody who is now autistic, formerly asbergers, I'm getting a kick...

Seriously, the expansion is stupid. You now have estimates that 30% of the population may be have an "autisim spectrum disorder". At what point does something cease to be a disorder and just become another variation of normal?

My diagnosis was based on actual tests- my brain's capability outstrips its processing speed, on the math side of the brain. Interestingly enough, you can use an IQ test to figure it out- the difference in results between the timed and untimed portions can be used to diagnose.

The fact that I'm now counted in those autistic statistics pisses me off. Why? Because I take no meds, and it doesn't prevent me from leading a normal life, or whatever you would call my life. Normal of a sort. Perhaps "doesn't prevent me from functioning in society" would be better. Anyway, the fact that I'm on that list diminishes the very real problems faced by people who actually are seriously autistic- the people who have tremendous difficulty living in normal society, or flat out can't. The expansion of the diagnosis has been spearheaded by parents who think their children need a condition to be special and get extra attention in school. It used to be ADD, which turned into ADHD, and when that became a joke, they latched on to something else.

But hey, the "ADD" kids found a nice revenue stream in college by selling their Ritalin, so it's not all bad right? You get economic efficiency out of the deal, matching drugs with those who need them the most. Just a different need...

And the Autism/vacc thing was started by someone that was trying to market their own "safer" vacc... Once the tiger is out you cant put it back

meat0918: It's self correcting.

A couple more kids die, and parents will start to get their precious snowflakes vaccinated.

It's sad and unfortunate we need to repeat this every few decades to remind people why we farking vaccinate.

//The cynic in me says vaccinations won't increase until some celebrity or rich person's unvaccinated kid dies.

I love the parents of the kids that die of diseases that there are vaccines for. "Something should have been done to prevent this!" ... yeah, like vaccinating your child. But please, do go on.

UsikFark:

Children are neuter gender in German. Die Kinder, Das Frau, Der Herr, usw.

Thanks... But the pic already had the "German" on it...

mak3_7up_y0urs: chknjetski: mak3_7up_y0urs: There's a really nice lady at work with a couple of young kids who mentioned that she stopped having them vaccinated because she believes that the autism crap is "too much of a coincidence". She also talks a lot about chain emails she receives, so it's pretty apparent she never does any sort of research to verify anything she hears. She's otherwise very cheerful and friendly, so I sort of feel bad for her.

I've always wondered: as a society are we supposed to let fools be fools or are we under some moral obligation to help people see things for what they are.

I wonder the same thing myself, but I just can't bring myself to try and correct her. I'm a lot younger and I don't have children of my own, so I can't imagine she'd take it very well even if I tried.

The trick is to teach critical thinking and research skills better. Also this; "Trust, but verify".

Once they hit adulthood, you'll have a very hard time, but sometimes you can get through. Calmness seems key. People like that woman (in my experience) also seem to always on the defensive about their conspiracy theories, as if they know their beliefs are a bunch of malarkey, but they cannot let it go because they've made it a focal point of their lives.

I know I am susceptible to conspiracy theories. I try very hard to avoid falling down that rabbit hole. I've been mostly successful, with only a few blunders.

I do feel like I've sucked a bit of joy out of my life though by avoiding them. I'm also a bit of a Debbie Downer because I have to speak up when someone says something that is not only false, but dangerous (chiropractors cure cancer for example).

I have to admit though, there is something fun in conspiracy theories and woo in general.

T.rex: That_Dude: T.rex: Who'dve thunk... At a time, in which we have more people than ever, the sum of people with a particular ailment is also greater. Jenny McCarthy is surely to blame.

Let's see what the article has to say about Europe:

Health official say outbreaks in the U.S. have been fueled by low vaccination rates in Europe and elsewhere. In 2011, Europe reported more than 26,000 measles cases and nine deaths -- three times the amount of cases seen in 2007 according to the World Health Organization, HealthPop reported.

Now, I'm assuming that the population of Europe hasn't tripled in the last five years, so the likely cause of the increase over there probably has to do more with vaccination rates than population growth.

Is there date to suggest that Europe is getting less vaccinations than they ever have? Vaccinations are an American fad... Other countries aren't fooled into that Big Pharma. Is there data to suggest that vaccinations correlate to less disease?

In 50 to 100 years, viral cause of disease will be no longer be taught.


So...you say America has a "vaccine fad" that Europe didn't fall for....yet Europe is suffering from the massive measles cases....hmm, can you put 2 and 2 together?

It always seemed weird to me how many vaccine white knights there are on fark....Those pharmaceutical companies really know how to work the interweb....

remotecody: Everyone should watch this.

Penn and Teller - Vaccinations (Full Episode)

Right, because you should take medical advice from magicians -- not models!

GeneralJim: Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that certain vaccines DO increase autism rates....

The appropriate response, as a society, it STILL to vaccinate all against the diseases, and get that sucker eliminated as quickly as possible, and THEN quit vaccinating against it. One or two generations of universal vaccination would wipe out most diseases. Lots fewer problems that way, again, even if the vaxxers were right. And, in less than a hundred years, no problems from the disease OR the vaccine..

[i1.kym-cdn.com image 640x359]
Farkin' Statistics, how do they work?

It works for things that the only vector is humans. Flu shots wouldn't work like that, unfortunately. Polio though, let's get rid of that shiat, post haste. And we are almost there. Only a handful of countries left, and we could take polio off the vaccination schedule in probably around 20 years.

What amazes me is we seem to have accepted that the flu shot is very hit or miss, and there doesn't seem to be an adequate amount of funding there to really drive towards a better vaccine for influenza. The vaccine scientists aren't ignoring it, and there is some funding there, so hopefully we get a break thru soon and instead of the educated guess we have at the moment, it's one shot every few years instead of a shot every year.

I realize a one time vaccination for flu is a long shot, but is something worth pursuing.

Swagulus: It always seemed weird to me how many vaccine white knights there are on fark....Those pharmaceutical companies really know how to work the interweb....

Right, because having 100% of the science on your side makes you shill!

MrEricSir: Swagulus: It always seemed weird to me how many vaccine white knights there are on fark....Those pharmaceutical companies really know how to work the interweb....

Right, because having 100% of the science on your side makes you shill!

[citation needed]

NotARocketScientist Lets not forget to give Jenny credit for the whooping cough outbreak as well. Learned on Fark that the vaccine you get for that as a kid wears off when you are an adult. Confirmed that with a Dr. Going to get hubby and I booster shots.

I had my annual physical a couple of weeks ago. My doctor told me the same thing. There is an outbreak of pertussis (whooping cough). While the disease is not usually serious in adults, it can be deadly in infants and young children. I got a booster shot while I was there.

My fully vaccinated, 18 year old daughter got the chicken pox last month. She was really, really sick. The doc said she is one of the 1% who don't develop an immunity. Chicken Pox is contagious several days before the rash appears. She exposed everyone in her school, the kids she babysits, her friends, her family, ..... everyone she came into contact with before she ever showed signs of the virus. Thankfully, most people are smart enough to vaccinate. Think it's not a serious disease? If a pregnant women who has not been exposed to the virus catches it while pregnant, it can cause serious problems with the baby, including fetal death. And it's not always a mild disease. Older teens and adults can get really, really sick.

Swagulus: It always seemed weird to me how many vaccine white knights there are on fark....Those pharmaceutical companies really know how to work the interweb....

Economic Illuminati a la BigPharma? That's what you're going with?

bdub77: whatshisname: Then explain why the Republican Party still exists.

It's really only in the past 20-25 years that the Republican party switched to full retard. Give it some time.

That's what I was going to say. Up until the early 1980s, for example, you could be both a feminist and a Republican.