lizaardvark: The odds of getting measles are are near to nothing as makes no nevermind. What are the odds of having a dangerous reaction to a vaccination? Just a little thought for the "herd immunity" sheep.

The odds of a serious reaction are 1 in 3

I think this thread has been Godwinned in the Boobies. If only the thread had been vaccinated before it was greenlit...

If you take medical advice from a model, you are not mentally fit to be a parent.

GAT_00: Someone really needs to file murder charges against Jenny McCarthy.

You don't want to fark with Tanya, she can take out a dozen guys and blow up half your base without getting a scratch.

tjsands1118: Measles can cause sterility, natures way of weeding out idiots. I know it seems unfair, as the kids aren't necessarily idiots yet, but give a few years of that great parenting they're receiving and they will be,

This. Get measles as a kid, you don't have it as an adult. Get measles as an adult, you don't have kids.

sharkbeagle: To me, it's a self correcting problem. Eventually all the tards in tardistan reach the end of their evolutionary chain and die out.

Then explain why the Republican Party still exists.

Dear Measles,

sorry you had teh worst year evar.

you're friend,
Isitoveryet

T.rex: That_Dude: T.rex: Who'dve thunk... At a time, in which we have more people than ever, the sum of people with a particular ailment is also greater. Jenny McCarthy is surely to blame.

Let's see what the article has to say about Europe:

Health official say outbreaks in the U.S. have been fueled by low vaccination rates in Europe and elsewhere. In 2011, Europe reported more than 26,000 measles cases and nine deaths -- three times the amount of cases seen in 2007 according to the World Health Organization, HealthPop reported.

Now, I'm assuming that the population of Europe hasn't tripled in the last five years, so the likely cause of the increase over there probably has to do more with vaccination rates than population growth.

Is there date to suggest that Europe is getting less vaccinations than they ever have? Vaccinations are an American fad... Other countries aren't fooled into that Big Pharma. Is there data to suggest that vaccinations correlate to less disease?

In 50 to 100 years, viral cause of disease will be no longer be taught.

Also in 50 - 100 years, people will water their crops with Brawndo. It's got electrolytes, what plants crave... But I kid. Seriously, folks, he's right. There is no such thing a rabies. It's been proven to be psychological. It's all in your mind. And the dog's mind, and the bat's... An interesting side note, 'rabies' has only been 'cured' a few times (I use the quotes because obviously, in 50 - 100 years, we will realize that 'rabies' doesn't really make you sick). Doctors induce a coma and then administer anti-viral drugs. Of course, in the future, doctors will understand that these people weren't really cured. In fact, people who die from 'viruses' are really suffering from South Korean 'Fan Death'.

sno man: *reads article*

Okay 222 cases in the US, that's a lot, compared to average, but not a lot out of the whole population...
26,000 in Europe (!) WTF? more than 2 orders of magnitude?
Is Jen McCarthy like Jerry Lewis in France and the Hoff in Germany combined?...
There's a fair bit of social medicine in Europe, so cost can't be it....
There can't be much of a difference in average intelligence...

So with about 2.5 times the population, with the (high) US rate Europe should have 555 cases.
or
European rate in American population numbers 10,400.

How the hell is Europe that unvaccinated?

I would bet that most of those cases are is poor parts of Eastern Europe.

lizaardvark: The odds of getting measles are are near to nothing as makes no nevermind. What are the odds of having a dangerous reaction to a vaccination? Just a little thought for the "herd immunity" sheep.

You are basing your cost-benefit on the wrong numbers. The odds of getting measles are near to nothing because of the "herd immunity" sheep. If you want comparables look at the infection rates from prior to vaccinations. In 1960, with a population slightly over half of what it is now, there were over 750,000 cases (ust undet 0.5% of the population, which sounds small, but over a lifetime creates pretty decent odds of contracting the disease at some point). Definitely not a negligable amount.
And since most complications are temporary rash, fever, or joint pain it would take a lot of complications for it to approach the benefits of vaccination.

sno man: *reads article*

Okay 222 cases in the US, that's a lot, compared to average, but not a lot out of the whole population...
26,000 in Europe (!) WTF? more than 2 orders of magnitude?
Is Jen McCarthy like Jerry Lewis in France and the Hoff in Germany combined?...
There's a fair bit of social medicine in Europe, so cost can't be it....
There can't be much of a difference in average intelligence...

So with about 2.5 times the population, with the (high) US rate Europe should have 555 cases.
or
European rate in American population numbers 10,400.

How the hell is Europe that unvaccinated?

Eh "europe" includes a lot of countries. While it is true that socialized medicine in france, england and the private/public models of switzerland/germany are pretty good, a lot of the poorer countries operate under the "while we are government employees, you better bribe us if you want service" model. For example, you have bribe a "public" a doctor to get them to do anything in Romania/Greece/etc.. I guarantee that most of these cases are from places like Romania (where there was a massive measles outbreak of 30k+ cases in the 90's) that have a completely corrupt and backwards medical system compared to the rest of the EU countries.

JWideman: tjsands1118: Measles can cause sterility, natures way of weeding out idiots. I know it seems unfair, as the kids aren't necessarily idiots yet, but give a few years of that great parenting they're receiving and they will be,

This. Get measles as a kid, you don't have it as an adult. Get measles as an adult, you don't have kids.

That's mumps. get measles as a kid, can end up not having vision and/or hearing, like Anne Frank.

SwiftFox: JWideman: tjsands1118: Measles can cause sterility, natures way of weeding out idiots. I know it seems unfair, as the kids aren't necessarily idiots yet, but give a few years of that great parenting they're receiving and they will be,

This. Get measles as a kid, you don't have it as an adult. Get measles as an adult, you don't have kids.

That's mumps. get measles as a kid, can end up not having vision and/or hearing, like Anne Frank.

didn't she fly a plane into the ocean?

There was an episode of L&O SVU about a woman who's non-vaccinated child killed another child by infecting him with measles (or some similar disease). They ended up trying her for something or another. Don't remember how it turned out, but it was a good episode.

meat0918: It's self correcting.

A couple more kids die, and parents will start to get their precious snowflakes vaccinated.

It's sad and unfortunate we need to repeat this every few decades to remind people why we farking vaccinate.

//The cynic in me says vaccinations won't increase until some celebrity or rich person's unvaccinated kid dies.

Yes, yes, yes, and yes.

gimmegimme: dywed88: sno man: *reads article*

Okay 222 cases in the US, that's a lot, compared to average, but not a lot out of the whole population...
26,000 in Europe (!) WTF? more than 2 orders of magnitude?
Is Jen McCarthy like Jerry Lewis in France and the Hoff in Germany combined?...
There's a fair bit of social medicine in Europe, so cost can't be it....
There can't be much of a difference in average intelligence...

So with about 2.5 times the population, with the (high) US rate Europe should have 555 cases.
or
European rate in American population numbers 10,400.

How the hell is Europe that unvaccinated?

I would bet that most of those cases are is poor parts of Eastern Europe.

lizaardvark: The odds of getting measles are are near to nothing as makes no nevermind. What are the odds of having a dangerous reaction to a vaccination? Just a little thought for the "herd immunity" sheep.

You are basing your cost-benefit on the wrong numbers. The odds of getting measles are near to nothing because of the "herd immunity" sheep. If you want comparables look at the infection rates from prior to vaccinations. In 1960, with a population slightly over half of what it is now, there were over 750,000 cases (ust undet 0.5% of the population, which sounds small, but over a lifetime creates pretty decent odds of contracting the disease at some point). Definitely not a negligable amount.
And since most complications are temporary rash, fever, or joint pain it would take a lot of complications for it to approach the benefits of vaccination.

Wow...that temporary rash, fever and joint pain sounds pretty rough.

Good point. I'd rather kill someone else's kid.

Still less chance of death from the vaccine that the disease

Link

"Even one serious adverse event in a million doses of vaccine cannot be justified if there is no benefit from the vaccination. If there were no vaccines, there would be many more cases of disease, and along with the more disease, there would be serious sequelae and more deaths. But looking at risk alone is not enough - you must always look at both risks and benefits. Comparing the risk from disease with the risk from the vaccines can give us an idea of the benefits we get from vaccinating our children.
DISEASE

Measles
Pneumonia: 6 in 100
Encephalitis: 1 in 1,000
Death: 2 in 1,000

Rubella
Congenital Rubella Syndrome: 1 in 4 (if woman becomes infected early in pregnancy)

VACCINES

MMR
Encephalitis or severe allergic reaction:
1 in 1,000,000
"

Attempts to assuage the fear of vaccines by means of intimidation and mockery are surely going to fall flat.

lizaardvark: The odds of getting measles are are near to nothing as makes no nevermind. What are the odds of having a dangerous reaction to a vaccination? Just a little thought for the "herd immunity" sheep.

How about that, one of the antivaccination morons made it onto the Internet. What an interesting curiosity.

This is a prime specimen too! It makes a troll comment about herd immunity, where the first part of the statement is a result of the focus of the troll comment itself.

Hopefully this moronic creature will not return to its native habitat of being a moron off the Internet so we can better study this type of cretin.

Spud Boy: http://www.jennymccarthybodycount.com

Well thanks to that website, I learned a new term I never heard before: Crystal or Indigo Children.

From Wikipedia:

Indigo children is a term used to describe children who are believed to possess special, unusual and sometimes supernatural traits or abilities...
...Although no scientific studies give credibility to the existence of indigo children or their traits, the phenomenon appeals to some parents whose children have been diagnosed with learning disabilities and to parents seeking to believe that their children are special.

Seriously? Are people so in denial about the fact that their children may have a problem that they have to make a story about them being supernatural in order to cope? I mean, I understand that having a child with a disability is a difficult, life changing and extremely stressful experience, but I can't help but think that completely deluding oneself does not help one learn healthy coping skills, nor does it help the person with the problem get the help they need. It's sad.

Autism is caused by... something. We don't know what. We only know that it's definitely not the neurotoxic heavy metal deemed not safe for use in animal vaccines, but perfectly safe for human infants.

And an obscure actress is definitely more to blame for concerns of parents than a drug manufactures refusal to address these concerns with anything other than spiteful condescension.

hobblekitty: Spud Boy: http://www.jennymccarthybodycount.com

Well thanks to that website, I learned a new term I never heard before: Crystal or Indigo Children.

From Wikipedia:

Indigo children is a term used to describe children who are believed to possess special, unusual and sometimes supernatural traits or abilities...
...Although no scientific studies give credibility to the existence of indigo children or their traits, the phenomenon appeals to some parents whose children have been diagnosed with learning disabilities and to parents seeking to believe that their children are special.

Seriously? Are people so in denial about the fact that their children may have a problem that they have to make a story about them being supernatural in order to cope? I mean, I understand that having a child with a disability is a difficult, life changing and extremely stressful experience, but I can't help but think that completely deluding oneself does not help one learn healthy coping skills, nor does it help the person with the problem get the help they need. It's sad.

Consider it progress.

They used to call the exorcist/medicine man/shaman to take care of the demons.

Remember when we used to be exposed to it on purpose as kids so we would be immune to it afterwards? Measles sucked, the loss of taste, the rash, the ick feeling, and having to stay in a darkened room. Chicken pox sucked the worst, though.

It would make sense that the kids with autism are safe. They generally don't like human contact and are not out in public much.

gimmegimme: Anti-vaxxers...this is the natural conclusion of your work:

[blogs.smithsonianmag.com image 500x375]

To quote Jenny McCarthy Link

"I do believe sadly it's going to take some diseases coming back to realize that we need to change and develop vaccines that are safe. If the vaccine companies are not listening to us, it's their f___ing fault that the diseases are coming back. They're making a product that's s___. If you give us a safe vaccine, we'll use it. It shouldn't be polio versus autism."

Newsflash Ms. McCarthy: Vaccine safety is of paramount concern, and every vaccine developed is tested. Then tested again. And again. And again.

Science at work.

//And science works. biatches.

gimmegimme: Anti-vaxxers...this is the natural conclusion of your work:

[blogs.smithsonianmag.com image 500x375]

Why did we ever go down the road of making vaccines? Look at all those happy children living life comfortably in their protective tubes. It must be pure bliss, until the power goes out....

Garble: Autism is caused by... something. We don't know what. We only know that it's definitely not the neurotoxic heavy metal deemed not safe for use in animal vaccines, but perfectly safe for human infants.

And an obscure actress is definitely more to blame for concerns of parents than a drug manufactures refusal to address these concerns with anything other than spiteful condescension.

[citation needed]

I'm sure you're probably referencing mercury, but what you may not know is there are two kinds of mercury, ethyl and methyl mercury. One is highly toxic, the other isn't. Guess which one they used in vaccines? That's right, the almost non-toxic ethyl type.

The astute among you might have noticed that I used the past-tense in the sentence above when referencing mercury in vaccines. That's because since around the mid-2000's most vaccines actually don't have any Thimerosal (and therefore mercury) in them.

But hey, strawmen are for beating, right? Nothing like willful ignorance to build them with, too.

Pitabred: Garble: Autism is caused by... something. We don't know what. We only know that it's definitely not the neurotoxic heavy metal deemed not safe for use in animal vaccines, but perfectly safe for human infants.

And an obscure actress is definitely more to blame for concerns of parents than a drug manufactures refusal to address these concerns with anything other than spiteful condescension.

[citation needed]

I'm sure you're probably referencing mercury, but what you may not know is there are two kinds of mercury, ethyl and methyl mercury. One is highly toxic, the other isn't. Guess which one they used in vaccines? That's right, the almost non-toxic ethyl type.

The astute among you might have noticed that I used the past-tense in the sentence above when referencing mercury in vaccines. That's because since around the mid-2000's most vaccines actually don't have any Thimerosal (and therefore mercury) in them.

But hey, strawmen are for beating, right? Nothing like willful ignorance to build them with, too.

I prefer fire. It works on strawmen, and disease.

While my baby (who will be here in June) will not go un-vaccinated, it sets me ill at ease to wonder how many of his future playmates will be at risk for diseases that could be prevented.

Baby sovietski will have all his shots (unless he ends up being allergic to one of the ingredients in vaccines--god I hope not). To me, it's not worth the risk. I had/have all mine and so does his dad.

sovietski: While my baby (who will be here in June) will not go un-vaccinated, it sets me ill at ease to wonder how many of his future playmates will be at risk for diseases that could be prevented.

Baby sovietski will have all his shots (unless he ends up being allergic to one of the ingredients in vaccines--god I hope not). To me, it's not worth the risk. I had/have all mine and so does his dad.

The risk goes both ways. Every parent weighs the risk of disease to the risk of reaction.

FTA:
"At least two-thirds of the Americans who got the measles hadn't been vaccinated."

So... as many as one-third of them were vaccinated???
Hmmmmm... How those vaccines working out for us?

Jodeo: FTA:
"At least two-thirds of the Americans who got the measles hadn't been vaccinated."

So... as many as one-third of them were vaccinated???
Hmmmmm... How those vaccines working out for us?

With universal vaccination, 100% of the children infected with measles will have been vaccinated.

Scary.

Lets not forget to give Jenny credit for the whooping cough outbreak as well.

Learned on Fark that the vaccine you get for that as a kid wears off when you are an adult. Confirmed that with a Dr. Going to get hubby and I booster shots.

doyner: Interesting darwinian twist. You reproduce but are too stupid to keep your offspring alive.

If we as a society ever get to the point where one has to pass some sort of test before one is allowed to be a parent (and I'm not saying that we will, or should), the test ought to include questions like:

1) If a qualified medical expert tells you that your child needs a vaccine, will you get your child a vaccine?
2) If a qualified medical expert tells you that your child needs a blood transfusion, will you get your child the blood transfusion?

Answering "no" to either question would mean you fail the test.

Jodeo: FTA:
"At least two-thirds of the Americans who got the measles hadn't been vaccinated."

So... as many as one-third of them were vaccinated???
Hmmmmm... How those vaccines working out for us?

Sometimes the vaccine doesn't take, or gets overwhelmed. I've been told you could think of it like the dunes on a beach, blocking a storm swell. Yeah, if the storm (Viral load: That is, if there are a shiat-ton of people around you that are shedding active viruses) is bad/big enough, it'll overwhelm the dune line and flood everything behind it. But it's still a HELL of a lot better than having no dunes at all.

AverageAmericanGuy: sovietski: While my baby (who will be here in June) will not go un-vaccinated, it sets me ill at ease to wonder how many of his future playmates will be at risk for diseases that could be prevented.

Baby sovietski will have all his shots (unless he ends up being allergic to one of the ingredients in vaccines--god I hope not). To me, it's not worth the risk. I had/have all mine and so does his dad.

The risk goes both ways. Every parent weighs the risk of disease to the risk of reaction.

I understand, completely. But as his parent, his health and well-being is going to be my responsibility for the foreseeable future. If he ends up being allergic or born with a compromised immune system, I couldn't/wouldn't risk it. I'd be Worst Parent Ever if I did.

sovietski: AverageAmericanGuy: sovietski: While my baby (who will be here in June) will not go un-vaccinated, it sets me ill at ease to wonder how many of his future playmates will be at risk for diseases that could be prevented.

Baby sovietski will have all his shots (unless he ends up being allergic to one of the ingredients in vaccines--god I hope not). To me, it's not worth the risk. I had/have all mine and so does his dad.

The risk goes both ways. Every parent weighs the risk of disease to the risk of reaction.

I understand, completely. But as his parent, his health and well-being is going to be my responsibility for the foreseeable future. If he ends up being allergic or born with a compromised immune system, I couldn't/wouldn't risk it. I'd be Worst Parent Ever if I did.

Would you ever put your child on Toddlers & Tiaras?

AverageAmericanGuy: sovietski: While my baby (who will be here in June) will not go un-vaccinated, it sets me ill at ease to wonder how many of his future playmates will be at risk for diseases that could be prevented.

Baby sovietski will have all his shots (unless he ends up being allergic to one of the ingredients in vaccines--god I hope not). To me, it's not worth the risk. I had/have all mine and so does his dad.

The risk goes both ways. Every parent weighs the risk of disease to the risk of reaction.

This. It isn't "worth the risk" it is way more riskier to not vaccinate than to vaccinate. People are just horrible at analyzing risk. Instead of doing research, they do what is trendy.

The same parents who aren't vaccinating are probably giving their children peanut butter as infants, sitting them in front of the tv for hours on end, and then having them play football. All of those things are a lot riskier than vaccines (severe allergic reaction, slowing your child's development, concussion & joint damage). Risks only matter when a celebrity is talking about them or if they are on your favorite show.

I'm going to make a big step aside from the normal conversation...

Is there a inverse correlation between vaccination and autism? That is, are the unvaccinated 100% autism free?

I think of an ATC instructor I had who was anti-vax. First kid turned up autistic, didn't vaccinate the next three autistic kids. I met the wife, a sweet person but I don't think she had a warm room temperature IQ. In other words... it was the shallow end of the gene pool. Anyhow, they moved back to Florida where their house never sold and he got the exact job he had wanted.