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(Talking Points Memo)   George Zimmerman wants a private meeting with the parents of Trayvon Martin. Preferably in a dark alley on a cool, rainy day   (livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com ) divider line
    More: Followup  
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8306 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Apr 2012 at 3:18 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-04-19 04:30:48 PM  

djkutch: Then, why is he charged with second degree murder?


Here's a collection of comments from criminal law professionals who explain why Zimmerman was over-charged.

This part sums it up nicely:

"It is completely lacking in requisite and necessary attribution for the extremely few and, really, innocuous facts it does present, and the rest comprises nothing but unsupported and wholly conclusory statements meant to infer criminal activity, but which do not even do a competent job of that.

"In short, it is shiat."
 
2012-04-19 04:31:00 PM  

eraser8: Do you realize that charging a person with a crime when the prosecutor lacks sufficient evidence that such crime occurred can get the prosecutor disbarred? Or, did you not realize that?


So, it never happens?

 
2012-04-19 04:31:07 PM  

Weaver95: jury nullification of the 'stand your ground' law isn't out of the question.


Jury nullification isn't an option here - it only works when you have someone accused of a crime where the jury feels they should be found "not guilty" because the law itself is bad. If the jury decides to ignore the law and find Zimmerman guilty in spite of reasonable doubt, the verdict will get tossed on appeal and we'll get to do it over again. It's not double jeopardy because he will have already been convicted.
 
2012-04-19 04:31:55 PM  

netweavr: eraser8: vegasj: Maybe to uh... I dunno... postpone riots and hope you get re-elected?

Do you realize that charging a person with a crime when the prosecutor lacks sufficient evidence that such crime occurred can get the prosecutor disbarred? Or, did you not realize that?

Because that's stopped people in the past?


It's one thing to charge that a crime occurred and fail to get a conviction. That happens.

It's quite another to charge for political reasons. That's unethical and really can get the prosecutor disbarred.

Latest example I can think of? April 10, 2012: Andrew Thomas:
An Arizona ethics panel on Tuesday moved to disbar Maricopa County's former top prosecutor for failed corruption investigations he and America's self-proclaimed toughest sheriff conducted, targeting officials with whom they were having political and legal disputes.

The three-member panel found that former County Attorney Andrew Thomas violated the professional rules of conduct for lawyers in bringing criminal charges against two county officials and a judge in December 2009.
 
2012-04-19 04:32:05 PM  

Rwa2play: 2 grams: dracos31: INeedAName: 2 Grams, 9Beers, Zippolight2002, Silly Jesus. Any other idiots on Fark today?

Lots of them. My troll list has been lighting up like a christmas tree of late.

Becasue people who disagree with you musts be trolls. There can be no other reason. Right?

Yeah, pretty much....



That's some air tight logic you got there, Einstien. ObvioulsyI'm dealing with a superior Farker. Please no more. no ,more! You've bested me!!!!

sarcasim.jpeg
 
2012-04-19 04:32:07 PM  
nice try libs but Fox News said he's not guilty so suck it
 
2012-04-19 04:33:27 PM  

macadamnut: One sad thing about this is that the Sanford cops who coached him to lie in his statement to escape conviction are driving around right now looking for the "real" killers.
And of course by "real" I mean "attractive and successful."


Gee...they must have been coaching him when they ARRESTED HIM the first time? Amirite?

The Sanford PD did not believe Zimmerman...it was the State Atty office who told them to drop charges. The State Atty in this area knows the judges in the area...and he knows damn well that the judges will rule Stand Your Ground for Zimmerman....and this Angela Corey is going to learn a little about pushing bogus cases in Seminole County courts
 
2012-04-19 04:33:32 PM  

Weaver95: is Zimmerman mentally retarded or something? dude seems too stupid to live.


This is a guy who got a reputation for calling 911 on the slightest provocation. I think that it's safe to say that he's a bit of a kook.
 
2012-04-19 04:34:39 PM  

user68: From what I've read of his posts, he seems to be claiming that while we don't know exactly what happened that night, there's no evidence that the events didn't occur in the manner that Zimmerman claims

one more thug off the streets is a good thing regardless of the circumstances.
 
2012-04-19 04:34:40 PM  
Advocate tough on crime and zero tolerance laws.
Suddenly call prosecutor overzealous when a guy who shot a black kid is charged.
 
2012-04-19 04:35:16 PM  

sammyk: You never ever ever have any contact no matter how tiny with the victims family.


You don't say anything to anyone without clearing it by your lawyer.
 
2012-04-19 04:35:57 PM  

Von_Ruff: UCFRoadWarrior: Von_Ruff: Hey... guys... guys! Has anyone suggested that the DA skipped the grand jury and charged Zimmerman with second degree murder because it's highly likely to end with an acquittal or hung jury while also pacifying public outrage?

Yes.....although I think it was done to pacify the New Black Panthers...who had been protesting outside the Special Prosecutors office over another crime comitted by a 12 yr old Black Hispanic. This Angela Corey wanted to get the Black Panthers off her case

Fortunately for Zimmerman this trial will be in Seminole County, and few blacks even show up when called for jury duty. Sanford has a large black population, but the rest of the county is mostly white and Hispanic

Living in Seminole County, I know some of the people who are working with the case. There is a reason why the Dept of Justice is here in the county...they have been made aware of the FACTS, and prepping for riots

Thanks for that info. These threads go to hell in short order from trolls and the unhinged, so I appreciate anything that doesn't fuel the idiocy.


No problem. Unfortunately there are way too many trolls on these Martin/Zimmerman threads. And, even more troubling, the media coverage has been about the same Derpcon as the trolls here
 
2012-04-19 04:36:16 PM  

2 grams:

The spin doctors are working overtime.


yes they are:

ABC has a copy of the girlfriend's non-legal statement

So many facts were wrong at the beginning, like how Zimmerman was a man, who weighed more than 100 pounds over a 'boy'; later come to find out Martin was 3 to 6 inches taller than Zimmerman, and weighed only 10 pounds less.

Which is why this needs to go away until the trial (if there is one next year)
 
2012-04-19 04:36:18 PM  

2 grams: Rwa2play: 2 grams: dracos31: INeedAName: 2 Grams, 9Beers, Zippolight2002, Silly Jesus. Any other idiots on Fark today?

Lots of them. My troll list has been lighting up like a christmas tree of late.

Becasue people who disagree with you musts be trolls. There can be no other reason. Right?

Yeah, pretty much....


That's some air tight logic you got there, Einstien. ObvioulsyI'm dealing with a superior Farker. Please no more. no ,more! You've bested me!!!!

sarcasim.jpeg


Considering you can't spell to save your life, I already have gotten the best of you.
 
2012-04-19 04:36:36 PM  

INeedAName: 2 Grams, 9Beers, Zippolight2002, Silly Jesus. Any other idiots on Fark today?


Could be the same person to be honest.

/I used to think there was nobody in the world nuts enough to create multiple handles on a single forum just to win an internet war.
//Then I caught my brother doing it on another forum somewhere.
///not only does it happen, but people I'm directly related to do it.
////So embarrassed.
 
2012-04-19 04:39:02 PM  

Phinn: djkutch: Then, why is he charged with second degree murder?

Here's a collection of comments from criminal law professionals who explain why Zimmerman was over-charged.

This part sums it up nicely:

"It is completely lacking in requisite and necessary attribution for the extremely few and, really, innocuous facts it does present, and the rest comprises nothing but unsupported and wholly conclusory statements meant to infer criminal activity, but which do not even do a competent job of that.

"In short, it is shiat."


Alan Dershowitz said the same....and he is the very liberal Harvard Law Professor who assisted the OJ Simpson defense team. Definitely no "honky" or "racist"
 
2012-04-19 04:39:11 PM  

Phinn: djkutch: Then, why is he charged with second degree murder?

Here's a collection of comments from criminal law professionals who explain why Zimmerman was over-charged.

This part sums it up nicely:

"It is completely lacking in requisite and necessary attribution for the extremely few and, really, innocuous facts it does present, and the rest comprises nothing but unsupported and wholly conclusory statements meant to infer criminal activity, but which do not even do a competent job of that.

"In short, it is shiat."


I thought he should've been charged with manslaughter myself. I don't think he originally intended to kill Martin in cold blood. He just thought he was a no good thug (although he had no evidence except by being black) and thought Zimmerman would be the hero of the neighborhood if he stopped him.

This is why vigilante justice is stupid essentially.
 
2012-04-19 04:39:42 PM  

Weaver95: yeah...I just don't get this guy. its like he NEEDS to be in the spotlight.


More likely he needs to be RIGHT, because the infallibility that provides is foundation for being an Authority. Zimmerman's actions here strike me as him essentially saying "if only they understood why I had to do it, they would have to bow to the cold, unyeilding truth".

img16.imageshack.us
 
2012-04-19 04:39:44 PM  

djkutch: That, or the GED Law School has really been cranking out graduates.


GED Law School: "Home of the $50 two day law degree!"
 
2012-04-19 04:40:17 PM  

eraser8: It's one thing to charge that a crime occurred and fail to get a conviction. That happens.

It's quite another to charge for political reasons. That's unethical and really can get the prosecutor disbarred.


There's a big difference between charging someone for an imaginary crime and charging someone for a crime you think might well have happened but you don't believe there's enough evidence to get a conviction.

I doubt the first is happening here, but the second might be.
 
2012-04-19 04:40:34 PM  

eraser8: netweavr: eraser8: vegasj: Maybe to uh... I dunno... postpone riots and hope you get re-elected?

Do you realize that charging a person with a crime when the prosecutor lacks sufficient evidence that such crime occurred can get the prosecutor disbarred? Or, did you not realize that?

Because that's stopped people in the past?

It's one thing to charge that a crime occurred and fail to get a conviction. That happens.

It's quite another to charge for political reasons. That's unethical and really can get the prosecutor disbarred.

Latest example I can think of? April 10, 2012: Andrew Thomas: An Arizona ethics panel on Tuesday moved to disbar Maricopa County's former top prosecutor for failed corruption investigations he and America's self-proclaimed toughest sheriff conducted, targeting officials with whom they were having political and legal disputes.

The three-member panel found that former County Attorney Andrew Thomas violated the professional rules of conduct for lawyers in bringing criminal charges against two county officials and a judge in December 2009.


What happens when a prosecutor doesn't think there's enough evidence to justify charging someone but public opinion demands it anyways?
 
2012-04-19 04:40:50 PM  

eraser8: Then why did he claim that Zimmerman deserves an award for killing Martin?


I'm not seeing the racism in that post. For all we know, he would have posted the same thing if the kid had been white.
 
2012-04-19 04:41:02 PM  

Headso: He would never be in gen pop


Oh, they going to inflate his ego and put him in with the Cops?
 
2012-04-19 04:41:47 PM  

UCFRoadWarrior: Angela Corey is going to learn a little about pushing bogus cases in Seminole County courts


Yeah, that will learn her!
 
2012-04-19 04:41:51 PM  

Some 'Splainin' To Do: Weaver95: is Zimmerman mentally retarded or something? dude seems too stupid to live.

This is a guy who got a reputation for calling 911 on the slightest provocation. I think that it's safe to say that he's a bit of a kook.


Actually he called the police (not necessarly "911") 46 times over a perioid of 8 years. that's about 6 times a year. If you are the head of the neighborhood watch, then isnt' no so crazy as what you just posted, ist it? I'm not saying Zimmerman is innocnet. but I am saying the news media has spun this so far around they're distoritng the facts and people are eating it up.


goodnight sheeple.
 
2012-04-19 04:42:15 PM  

vudukungfu: Headso: He would never be in gen pop

Oh, they going to inflate his ego and put him in with the Cops?


And the diddlers...
 
2012-04-19 04:42:28 PM  

IanMoone: 2 grams:

The spin doctors are working overtime.

yes they are:

ABC has a copy of the girlfriend's non-legal statement

So many facts were wrong at the beginning, like how Zimmerman was a man, who weighed more than 100 pounds over a 'boy'; later come to find out Martin was 3 to 6 inches taller than Zimmerman, and weighed only 10 pounds less.

Which is why this needs to go away until the trial (if there is one next year)


IT'S A SIMPLE MATT'R A WEIGHT RATIOS!
 
2012-04-19 04:42:45 PM  

9beers: I'm not getting drawn into another thread full of retard logic, you guys have your fun. Besides, the only new piece of evidence that's been made public since the last thread is that multiple neighbors saw Zimmerman covered in bandages the day following the shooting.

Have fun mob, don't forget the pitchforks.


I too would cover myself in bandages and exaggerate the severity of my injuries if I killed someone and was claiming self defense. You gotta sell it.
 
2012-04-19 04:43:26 PM  
I would shoot the bastard and then claim he attacked me.
 
2012-04-19 04:43:41 PM  

2 grams: goodnight sheeple.


Reminds me of this cartoon:

imgs.xkcd.com

/The important thing is that you get to make yourself feel superior to others
 
2012-04-19 04:44:29 PM  
Seeing those enhanced photos from the police station and comparing it to his mugshot, it's apparent that he suffered a broken nose that night.
 
2012-04-19 04:45:39 PM  

9beers: Weaver95: except there's no evidence that actually happened.

Yes, there's no evidence of Martin assaulting Zimmerman, except for...

an eyewitness


And there are eyewitnesses who contradict that claim. But, of course, we don't listen to those eyewitnesses, do we?

a police report

Which, apparently, simply took Zimmerman on his word. 90% of the controversy in this case is because it's pretty damned apparent that the police did not do their job.

paramedics

I'm calling BS. There are no records of Zimmerman going to a hospital. Put up or shut up.

a video

You're talking about the ambiguous freeze-frame that NBC claimed that they "enhanced", right? Once again, if Zimmerman's claims that he was severely beaten are true, why didn't he go to the hospital?

neighbors who saw Zimmerman in bandages the next day

And every person who's ever brought a neck brace to a lawsuit was suffering a neck injury. Are you for real?

Keep on derping.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

I also love the fact that you assume that, if there was a fight, that the black kid started it and not the self-appointed "watch" guy who was playing vigilante.

I think that any sane person would put alleged bandages against definitely real bullet holes any day.
 
2012-04-19 04:46:39 PM  

netweavr: What happens when a prosecutor doesn't think there's enough evidence to justify charging someone but public opinion demands it anyways?


It's the prosecutor's responsibility to act in accordance with law, public opinion notwithstanding.

Claiming that the prosecutor is acting politically is an extremely serious charge. It shouldn't be made lightly; it shouldn't be made without evidence.
 
2012-04-19 04:47:26 PM  

9beers: I'm not getting drawn into another thread full of retard logic, you guys have your fun. Besides, the only new piece of evidence that's been made public since the last thread is that multiple neighbors saw Zimmerman covered in bandages the day following the shooting.

Have fun mob, don't forget the pitchforks.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrtSvCPaygs
 
2012-04-19 04:48:22 PM  

eraser8: netweavr: What happens when a prosecutor doesn't think there's enough evidence to justify charging someone but public opinion demands it anyways?

It's the prosecutor's responsibility to act in accordance with law, public opinion notwithstanding.

Claiming that the prosecutor is acting politically is an extremely serious charge. It shouldn't be made lightly; it shouldn't be made without evidence.


Made by who?
 
2012-04-19 04:48:32 PM  

user68: Seeing those enhanced photos from the police station and comparing it to his mugshot, it's apparent that he suffered a broken nose that night.


I can tell because of the pixels.
 
2012-04-19 04:48:32 PM  

Some 'Splainin' To Do: I also love the fact that you assume that, if there was a fight, that the black kid started it and not the self-appointed "watch" guy who was playing vigilante.


Well duh!

All black kids are scary and are thugs amiright?

/sarcasm
 
2012-04-19 04:50:07 PM  

eraser8: Claiming that the prosecutor is acting politically is an extremely serious charge. It shouldn't be made lightly; it shouldn't be made without evidence.


I haven't been following the case that closely but did catch a roundtable discussion on it the other night on one of the news networks. All but one member of the panel was calling it an abuse of power or unethical that charges were filed given the contents of the affidavit.
 
2012-04-19 04:50:17 PM  

user68: Seeing those enhanced photos from the police station and comparing it to his mugshot, it's apparent that he suffered a broken nose that night.


So what? Zimmerman attacks Martin. Martin fights back, gets the upper hand and Zimmerman shoots him.

I don't know for a fact that is what happened, but you don't know for a fact it isn't. And Zimmerman has a history of aggression and violence .
 
2012-04-19 04:51:08 PM  

netweavr: eraser8: netweavr: What happens when a prosecutor doesn't think there's enough evidence to justify charging someone but public opinion demands it anyways?

It's the prosecutor's responsibility to act in accordance with law, public opinion notwithstanding.

Claiming that the prosecutor is acting politically is an extremely serious charge. It shouldn't be made lightly; it shouldn't be made without evidence.

Made by who?


Really?
 
2012-04-19 04:51:19 PM  

Joshudan: sammyk: gilgigamesh: Dude is nuts. Out of control. He is the nightmare client, and any lawyer stupid enough to take him on deserves the misery that will ensue.

Casey Anthony was smart enough to STFU early on. If she acted like Zimmerman she would be behind bars. Zimmerman is going down hard. You never ever ever have any contact no matter how tiny with the victims family.

Casey Anthony had lots of contact with the victim's family. Just sayin....


Point taken. Can I change my example to she did not talk to the press or better yet OJ didn't say a word to the Goldmans.
 
2012-04-19 04:51:55 PM  

2 grams: Actually he called the police (not necessarly "911") 46 times over a perioid of 8 years. that's about 6 times a year. If you are the head of the neighborhood watch, then isnt' no so crazy as what you just posted, ist it?


It is if no one appointed you to the position. The reports I've heard state that Zimmerman simply assumed that role on his own.
 
2012-04-19 04:52:04 PM  

user68: Seeing those enhanced photos from the police station and comparing it to his mugshot, it's apparent that he suffered a broken nose that night.


www.afterelton.com
 
2012-04-19 04:52:27 PM  

user68: eraser8: Claiming that the prosecutor is acting politically is an extremely serious charge. It shouldn't be made lightly; it shouldn't be made without evidence.

I haven't been following the case that closely but did catch a roundtable discussion on it the other night on one of the news networks. All but one member of the panel was calling it an abuse of power or unethical that charges were filed given the contents of the affidavit.


You seem to be trolling...but, in case you're not: what's your point?
 
2012-04-19 04:53:18 PM  

NightOwl2255: user68: Seeing those enhanced photos from the police station and comparing it to his mugshot, it's apparent that he suffered a broken nose that night.

So what? Zimmerman attacks Martin. Martin fights back, gets the upper hand and Zimmerman shoots him.

I don't know for a fact that is what happened, but you don't know for a fact it isn't. And Zimmerman has a history of aggression and violence .


I know what you mean.

Zimmerman had previous run-ins with the law in the past (he assaulted a farking police officer!!!) and yet the retards defending Zimmerman point to the fact that Martin got suspended for having weed as proof that Martin is the true criminal in this story
 
2012-04-19 04:53:23 PM  

beta_plus: Weaver95: 9beers: "I'm sorry you didn't do a better job raising your son so that he didn't grow up thinking that violence was the answer".

I still don't understand why you think Zimmerman is innocent. nothing in the evidence says Martin was doing anything wrong.

Besides the witness who said he saw Zimmerman being pinned to the ground and beaten my Martin, or the wounds and broken nose clearly visible in the station video, you're right, there is no evidence.

[www.wagist.com image 384x343]

[www.wagist.com image 468x1100]

/don't tell me - zimmerman was so overcome with his hatred of blacks that he smashed his own head against the sidewalk and broke his own nose against the curb to cover up his racism
//also that witness' voice is clearly white. His whiteness makes him so racist that he was willing to lie for Zimmerman. That he didn't show his face on camera simply makes him a lying cowardly racist
//racist


Just want to point out that he's incredibly clean and spotless there, and wounds as described should be wrapped in bandages.
 
2012-04-19 04:53:24 PM  

indylaw: sammyk: You never ever ever have any contact no matter how tiny with the victims family.

You don't say anything to anyone without clearing it by your lawyer.


If I was up on murder charges I wouldn't talk to my wife and that is a conversation protected by the 5th.
 
2012-04-19 04:53:59 PM  
And 20 demerits for "sheeple", 2 grams.
 
2012-04-19 04:54:41 PM  

eraser8: You seem to be trolling


Look at the date he made his account.
 
2012-04-19 04:54:56 PM  

user68: Seeing those enhanced photos from the police station and comparing it to his mugshot, it's apparent that he suffered a broken nose that night.


You realize what a broken nose is, correct? It doesn't go away with some kleenex dabs. There would be a medical report about it and it's easy to tell after the fact that it was broken and how long ago. In other word, he had no broken nose.

Also, people with broken noses almost always get black eyes and red sclera that make them look way worse than they are. We've yet to see any pictures of Zimmerman like that.
 
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